Bowie Knife Bayonet and Bolo Bayonet for the US Krag
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- Опубліковано 1 вер 2020
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When the US adopted the Krag rifle in 1892, a remarkably efficient and simple decision was made regarding its bayonet. The old spike socket bayonet was clearly obsolete; all the modern European armies were adopting knife bayonets; the Swiss knife bayonet was a really good example; so the US would simply copy the Swiss M1889 pattern bayonet for the Krag. They did, and it was a very good bayonet - clearly this decision could not last without a challenge!
In 1900, the Good Idea Fairy suggested that perhaps a combination bayonet and entrenching tool could be devised to reduce the amount of of gear issued to troops. Ignoring the failures of this idea in 1873 and 1880, Springfield Armory went ahead and designed a Bowie knife style bayonet and made 2,000 of them for field trial in 1900. It was a dismal failure; inefficient and awkward as a bayonet and nearly useless as a digging tool. In response, a US Captian named Hugh Long in the Philippines crafted his own concept of a useful bayonet for that theater, patterned after the local bolo knifes. This would at least be good for hacking through thick vegetation, which was a major issue for US soldiers on the islands. Captain Long sent his sample back to Springfield, where it 56 more were made for testing (50 in 1902 and 6 in 1903).
Development of the Krag bolo style bayonet was cut short by the adoption of the new 1903 Springfield rifle, which abandoned the detachable bayonet altogether in favor of a return to a rod bayonet. However, the bolo would make a brief comeback on the Springfield in 1915…but that’s a story for another video.
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"Yes Mr. Wick, we have some old surplus available...."
john would do some werk with dat knife.
We need a john wick scene for each forgotten weapon
I signed that petition
Please Mr.Wick I need this
OMG that would be so great. John Wick with a Kraig and a Bowie bayonet. Lol
its like the ordinance guys sat around a table going "That's notta knife!" while pulling out increasingly dumber bayonets until one accidentally got stamped off for approval
"So what did you guys end up picking for our new bayonet"
"Uh what do you mean sir, you approved the Bowie last week..."
"That's ridiculous, I would never... wait was that Thursday night?"
"Yes sir, why?"
"Um no reason, but if anybody asks tell them whiskey is banned from the premises."
Not to be outdone Australia created the Mk1 Machete Bayonet.
Kind of reminds me of the current "taticool" trend, where the more BS you hang off your gun the scarier you think you are, and the better you think you shoot, whilst actually your gun is so out of balance you're not likely to hit what you aim at, and your opponent will probably do themselves more damage by laughing so hard than you will by slinging lead all over the place.
Do not issue to the soldier two items that serve four functions when it is possible to issue to them one item that serves no purposes and weighs three times as much. US Army Ordnance Corps General Order #87.
We have devloped this gadget that will halve the weight an Infantary soldier needs to carry! General Staff: My God! Waht can we disevise to replace the lost weight?
This is normal for all Armies and the designers the that would never have to use the wonder device.
multiple items that do the job well or 1 item that does none of them well at all and makes you try and find the obsolete equipment because if this item breaks you can't do any of the jobs it was meant to do poorly
@@51WCDodge More ammo.
@@PobortzaPl that's the default answer.
Proof that "nonsense accessories" isn't the exclusive preserve of modern Shot Show.
If you ever read Aldo Leopold's "A sand county alamanc", he mentions the same thing in one of the latter chapters. And we wrote it in 1949. So nonsense stuff seems to be part of human nature :)
Lucky the Russians didn't know about it. "Did you hear Nicholas, Amerikanski put glaives on their rifles !" "Well then Grigori, we shall put a bardiche on our mosins !!!"
Just wait until you see the French saber bayonet... (yes, it was a full length saber).
Full length bayonet on full length mosin almost makes it a pike
Meanwhile the Japanese put katanas on their pistols.
They did make their spacecraft survival rifle (which was in use until recently in return capsules) that would have a hatchet attach as the butstock to save space in the kit
Imagine WWI but like Dynasty Warriors.
The Bowie knife would be great as a sod cutter. For stacking sod earth works and a lot less digging. Just cut and stack it up. As the military had last completed the Indian campaign on the High Plains, where sod was a common building material. I'll bet this was their intention as a trenching tool. Being a gardener I'm using a knife all the time to clear out the sod.
That makes more sense. Thanks.
Thanks! Dig deep enough and there's always a reason for these things to exist.
totally made up theory based on a guess.
Are you a US soldier who always dreamed of being a French voulgier during the Hundred Years War? Then boy do we have the bayonet for you!
When I was in the Army we referred to this as “tools designed to do more than one thing very badly”.
"What was really practical was the natives bolo knife" ... I can already see where this is going.
I like to see too.
Where to may i ask
Filipino guerrillas do love them, not sure about the ppl on the recieving end tho
@@ejcruz3520 I guess feeling is mutual across many nationality.
The US looked at what the Europeans were doing, and decided it was time for an old fashioned bayonet measuring contest. The US was obviously going for width....
Girth
360 on the perimeter. You know hoes like diameter.
The US army sounded like that guy who spends too much time optimizing a task and ended up spending more effort than if he just did that task.
At that time period, that's probably an excellent... well, not even a metaphor, just a description of the ordinance department as a guy.
Spend enough time planning and you don't have to do any actual work.
That is exactly what BuOrd's job was, to optimize the task and tools for that task.
Well the trick with that Is weighing how much time you spent working out how to be as efficient as possible and how often you do the task. The US government trials department seems like it's not great at that.
@@CAMSLAYER13 it certainly wasn't back in the day.
Sometimes they get it right, like having time and motion men work out where the various crew positions and ammo boxes should be.
And sometimes they get it horribly wrong, like when Studler was in charge of BuOrd.
US military good idea fairy: "wouldn't it cool if...."
Literally everyone else: *how many times to we have to beat you old man*
I think I can hear the battle cries of my Filipino ancestors seeing that bolo knife
Mabuhay, Ian! Thanks for showing a piece of history from my country!
Ya, the Bolo bayonet looks a lot more intimating.
Gotta love bolos, perfect for bush wacking, digging, and cutting open buko. Praktikal kung sa praktikal.
Screw the Philippines
@@Clown_the_Clown you must be the life of the parties
As a filipino, that's downright racist. How about I say "screw america"? What would that make you feel?
"we don't want to issue two things to a soldier when we can issue one thing that would suck at both jobs"
Thank you for Forgotten Weapons’ diligent research and your clear presentations.
"It was a good idea, so it couldn't last without being challenged". The science mayor in me sees this as natural. The former History mayor and programmer in me sees this as tragic.
You were elected as both mayor of Science and History? Damn, not bad.
@@cympimpin20 Non native speaker, i supose is major?
@@HariGtt Yeah, major is the correct term here. Science major/History major/etc.
I was at a antique store today, there they had a Krag-Jørgensen carbine, and a saber bayonet for same, I've never wanted to buy anything more in my life
the bolo turns the rifle not into a spear, but a glaive!
Honestly, i imagine those would be quite effective, as the main purpose of bayonet is not stabbing, but intimidation. couple that with actual utility, and you're getting something.
Intimidation yeah, unfortunately the second one uses it like a glaive they're likely to either snap the bayonet off or bend the gun barrel. :P
Man, I want a bolo bayonet for an M16...
@@ScottKenny1978 dude that would look horrific on an AR 🤮
@@edwalmsley1401 would actually be useful as a utility blade, and a bigass chunk of sharp steel on the end of a rifle is usually pretty intimidating.
It looking fugly is probably accurate, but immaterial.
@@ScottKenny1978 what ever you into man....though practical bayonets are very much a reality 👍
Fighting AND digging?
The trench-shovel says "Hi!".
Ah, but can you throw it back and forth between your hands and then motion for an enemy to attack you? I think not. Wait that's how most hand to hand combat goes down, right?
Exactly. From what I read from various sources, time and time againg, soldiers were more than happy to smack a c**t with a good ol' regular, single-purpose shovel. No need to try anything fancier than that, you can't kill them harder when they are already dead.
@@FolgoreCZ Why fiddle with a knife when an E-tool will take their head clean off their shoulders?
I got ripped off when I got my Krag Jorgensen because it didn't come with one of those machetes!!
At least you even got a Krag bro. I would kill to get a old military bolt action rifle.
@Craig Scott I was wondering why my grandfather gave it to me! Lol
@Dalle Smalhals Ikr? 😁
@Craig Scott Yes, great numbers of FRNs if in good shape.
Why is Ian talking slower than he normally does?
**realizes I have my video set to 0.75x**
hehe, watch ben shapiro show on 0,5x :))).
As a Filipino, I approve of the Bolo Knife. We use the Bolo to clear vegetation, or in urban areas, as a general purpose tool (cutting open coconuts to harvest the meat and coco-water), for example. =)
It works so well except not as a bayonet.
@@WingMaster562 this.
Original Bolos was actually multi-purpose farming knives. There are also bolos that were as long as a regular machete and really they're good for chopping vegetations and as well as using it as a short sword for close quarter combat. An until now the Philippine Military, and the Marines is still using it.
A good knife design is timeless.
Though I think I prefer the kuhkri over the bolo for field work.
I don't think the US Army meant the bowie blade to replace shovels for digging field fortifications. Rather they were acknowledging a common practice of cowboys and other American frontier people using bowie knives to do small digging tasks like make shallow latrine pits or burying rations to keep them cool or safe from animals.
Very nice Ian, especially for those of us who collect baypnets and knives. The style of the bolo bladed krag bayonet lived on the in the 1910/ 1917 type bolos as just a utility knife/machete. Even the handle kept the same shape. Id love to find either of those that you have there.
As a kid I owned a bolo bayonet that was stamped '1918'. It came in a green canvas-wrapped wooden scabbard (also stamped '1918') with a leather-wrapped end. The scabbard was set up with 'wires' that would affix it a cartridge belt. (Had one of those as well.). The bayonet was also stamped 'Plumb' (a company that made axes). It was purchased at a surplus store in Muskegon, Michigan in the late 1950's. Unfortunately, the entire setup was stolen from a storage unit when I was moving from one State to another.
That's not bayoinet, now THIS is a bayoinet
@Dalle Smalhals Chief he was referencing Crocodile Dundee
Ian, this is exactly the sort of item I would expect to see on your wall. Like me, I expect, you may not have a specific interest in collecting bayonets, as a general rule, but collecting the ones that were specifically made for weapons in your collection is a different proposition. Adding the "Original", "Bowie" and "Bolo" style bayonets to your display wall, under your Krag, would look very nice indeed, especially considering the rarity and oddness of the latter two. If you decide to bid on them, I wish you the best of luck.
Finally after 2 years watching Ian's videos my country has been mentioned for the first time in firearms history. Kudos Mr. Ian Mccollum!
Not really the first. There are excerpts of that in the "bolo bayonet" for the 1903 Springfield. And others.
ua-cam.com/video/Jy8mx1-Czh0/v-deo.html
He also did a video on the colt 1902 "Philippine" model
ua-cam.com/video/ZCi4EIdfT9A/v-deo.html
I have a hard time seeing that so called "Bowie" style actually surviving use as a bayonet.
Something about the way these blades looks make me think they belong in Warhammer 40K not reality. The Blades just looks wildly out of proportion to the handle.
I hate that you're right.
im waiting for a kukri bayonet to show up on this channel
The Krag is so underappreciated....
Primarily because it was outshot by the Mauser and its more powerful 7mm cartridge in Cuba while serving normally in N. Europe...
@@axelpatrickb.pingol3228 More power doesn't necessarily mean better. There's a reason why Ian think the Carcano carbine was the best bolt action rifle of WW2. I agree with you though, better in every way. II just think it's cool and people forget about it a lot.
@Jake Roberts That's so cool. Keep it in good condition so we don't lose them please.
The american version had some problems with the cartridge and the rimmed ammo. however, the Norwegian version which was used by Norway in ww2 used rimless ammo and used 6.5x55 swede, I personally see the Norwegian version as the perfect krag.
@@axelpatrickb.pingol3228 The Krag wasn't outshot, the Mauser loading system was considered superior for military use ultimately. I have owned and used both rifles and as the 7mm was loaded at the time of the war in 1898, you will not see a substantial difference between it and the .30 US in terms of power, accuracy or much else in the hands of the average shooter.
"Makes a good field knife." *Literally* the 2nd most important feature of a good bayonet (the first being a good bayonet latching system to easily and securely mount it).
“How about we strap some big-ass knifes to the rifle?”
My grandpa has one of those krag bowie bayonets, I’m glad you were able to find more information than I could, now I can send this to him.
the thing about getting stabbed is you suddenly realize how warm your body is supposed to be when a foregin object feels so cold in...
In the Puerto Rico invasion all of the invation force where armed with trap doors Springfields. It was 6 days after the invasion that one regiment recived Krag rifles. They saw action only at the end of the campaign.
When he does the top down, I thought he had the sharp edge on the Bowie. That's stupid thin
you hit anything hard with it (like say, a tree root or a rock), and with bend in a whole bunch of ways and it will have a single huge serration in the blade.
Whoever designed that- Never held a good bowie. Thing feels like a weight.
It does have quite a significant top bevel
Standard issue practice is that these 'knives' can also be equipped with a rifle for extra range.
I love it when he says, “I also have a video on one of those.” I’m waiting for the China Lake grenade launcher video (with live fire)
Surprise Surprise I'm at work and not playing HUNT and Ian comes in with another cool old gun and bayonet.
Tf2 sniper called he wants his machete back
i see that as more of spy making fun of snipers machete by stabbing him in the back with a machete like knife.
My father had an old bayonet laying on a ledge in our entryway out on our home place not sure which gun it was for but it was marked US and was a standard type, probably for an 03. He used it only when butchering hogs, and only then for what he called "sticking the pig" where he would stick the bayonet through the throat of the hog, then pull the hog up by a hoist on his back legs to drain all the blood before proceeding with the butchering. I used to play with the big old thing when I was able to find a chair to put up against the wall and reach the bayonet, I have no idea where it went though when dad sold the place and we moved to town so my two sisters (RIP) could attend High School. Didn't do much good though both sisters dropped out in their second year, I made it to year 4 before I dropped out because I got married when a Junior in High School. They said it could not last, but we celebrated our 51st anniversary last month, 4 days before my lovely bride passed away from the cancer that ate at her body for 6 months of hell.
This channel needs more knives and bayonets
HO-LEE shit!!! You just identified the bayonet my dad had in the cellar in our home in NJ...I used'ta 'play' with it when I was a young boy in the 50s & 60s...didn't know what it was then - I wasn't the collector I am today...but that scabbard is unique!!! Thanx!!!
Thank you , Ian .
US GI pulls out M4 bayonet. "This is a bayonet"
Ltnt. Krag: No, son. That is not a bayonet.
The good idea fairy is back with the Marines. Our current bayonnet is also a field kinfe that replaced the ka-bar.
I can remember years ago being at a Canadian Remembrance Day celebration at Canadian Legion Hall, we had some American guess that he come up from the American Legion to remember with us. At one point during the evening we had a fundraising event where we were shaving a gentleman's beard for donations and one of our American guests pulled out one of those Krag Bowie bayonets when it was his turn. Even for a room full of vets we're all instantly speechless!
ah the Good Idea Fairy, so many improvements that make things worse
You know, I was thinking a little bit ago "The channel's called Forgotten Weapons, not Forgotten Firearms. Where's my forgotten swords and such?"
I knew that his focus is mainly guns, but I was hopeful for a non-gun video, and ta-da! Here it is!
It's great! I like that! Such strange knives!
I have that exact black bayonet. I used to have a really old spike bayonet but someone stole it.
For some reason that Bowie bayonet just screams Texas to me...
For me that looks like small version of some arabic cutlass swords.
@@fryzvova :-)
id like to see one for an 1895 windchester in 30 06. that would be the most american set up i can think of
Because its creator, James Bowie, was one of the casualties in the Defense of the Alamo, perchance?
@@axelpatrickb.pingol3228 Might be...
Back in the 1960s my father had a bolo style bayonet for a SMLE in Australia.
Do you have any photos? This gave me the idea to have one made from my SMLE And I would like some reference.
Thanks Ian.
I will note it is usually a lot more difficult to find the scabbards for the bayonets than the bayonets themselves. Last good Krag bayonet I bought (still have it- 1903 date) I paid $75 for with no scabbard. The scabbard (again a decent one) came around after quite a bit of looking and was over $100 at the time.
Legionnaires carried cut down 1917 bayonets as fighting knives, wish I still had mine. Saw some footage out of mali and a few boys were still carrying them.
Keep it up sir love your content 👍
3:38 "a Bowie knife is not a stabbing weapon"
What? That was literally the point of the clip point. That's the point of the handguard. It IS a stabbing weapon. What's bad about this PARTICULAR Bowie is that the tip isn't straight, it almost has a cartoon pirate cutlass point, where the tip is bent towards the rear (or "up" when affixed).
Also, yes it is a great trenching tool. I literally trench with my Bowie every day(digging for camera wires in heavy brush).
I would be really interested in a video describing the differences between the Krag Rifle and Carbine and why today the carbine is more popular with collectors.
I'll be on the lookout for this BOLO Bayonet
It’s really cool to see those bayonets up close, especially to know they were stabbing “boxers” in the boxer rebellion/55 Days at Peking
When the US armory thinks they can out-engineer the Swiss 🤣
I saw you hit a 100k for the petition to be in the next John Wick movie! Love it! I really hope you make it, that would be AWESOME. Keep up the great work and videos! I really enjoy learning from you.
I signed that
@Baby Goose that would be even cooler! I would like to be a Puerto Rican gangster character in his movie. It would be an honor to get shot by the Gun Jesus lmao. He would be perfect for a Western movie though, they are my favorites anyways.
I smell the distinct aroma of the 'design committee'. A dozen people that have never touched a knife or a spear decided that a Bowie knife looked scary and didn't bother to ask why spears never have clip points, and utility knives always have sturdy spines.
$34,500. In case anyone was wondering. When I win the Powerball, RIA will quickly be emptied.
I've actually seen someone use a bolo to dig a hole for a fence post here in the Philipines.
Co Bao: What bring you good luck?
Rambo: *shows her the knife I guess this.
What about the British smachete or the Fairbain fighting knife?
I just love my 1896 Krag rifle . Very nice condition and shoots great. I have a nice 1896 bayonet with scabbard and frog as well. I will never sell it. Just a fine rifle.
The blade of the bolo bayonet reminds of the Marine medic bolo from WW2 but smaller.
That bolo bayonet on the end of a rifle reminds me of a bill hook or a glaive. I wonder if they adjusted fighting tactics to use them in that way.
Honestly if the bolo bayonet was a more practical knife id get one cause it looks just so awesome
Some strange twists of fate, almost 30 years ago, resulted in me being given a Krag, dated 1900, and also being given a bit of a proper education on what the Spanish American War and Philippine Insurrection meant to history. This era has fascinated and infuriated me to this day...The beginnings of America's global empire building, the first foreign counterinsurgency, the beginning of the mistakes that we still keep trying to make...And very few people talk about, or know about, how it all started.
Ian, why did they still prefer such long barrels for service rifles in the era? How did they measure bullet velocity? Was that an important consideration? Or was it just that they clung to tradition? Great video, as always.
More blades should appear on this channel.
2:49 "THAT'S a Knoife"
Bring these back. I'd love modern recreations for an M4.
look in the philipine there is probably a knife manufacturer that makes local "custom" M4 knife attachments. might even be semi popular whit the regular US garrison troops.
Surprising. I'd always thought they'd use a USMC style bowie for the Krag.
Great, now I have some accessories I need to track down for my rifle.
Great content and I actually own a Krag and LOVE IT!
"Clearly, this was a good and effective idea, so it couldn't last without some challenge."
Army thinking summed up into a terse footnote comment. The Good Idea Fairy plaguing Uncle Sugar's boys since Valley Forge.
At the turn of the 20th century, it took the US government 5 years of experimentation to wind up back where they started.
On an unrelated note, anyone else wondering how Big Army has now wound up with a modernized version of what they could've had in the '50s if they'd just adopted the FAL in .280 British?
The sharpened section on the back edge of the bowie knife bayonet is quite curious, I wonder what the purpose for that is. It's probably some weird multi-tool style addition that no one ever used.
Looks like saw teeth, if you're talking about the section near the guard
I'd be curious to know how much those went for as surplus, and what they're worth now.
“Now THIS is ! Is a knife!”
I can see Ian as “Q” in John Wick.
The bolo looks like it would be a handy little tool, and should you need to fend off a Calvary charge whilst out of ammo I think it would do the job. Once mounted on the rifle you damn near have a poleaxe.
High Command We have a new bayonet for you! Soldier in the field 'Hows it at opening bottles and cans?
Pre-WWI US military bolos are some of the coolest edged weapons I can think of.
Do anyone else feel like the krag was a beautiful and elegant rifle?
Yes.
I would make it my mission to buy a Krag bayonet but neither of my Krags have bayonet lugs, or correct stocks, or... 😢
My great grandpa, used these but, he used the sword to get rid on spirits on a haunted bridge where my grandpas car broke down, my great grandpa, his dad used the knife to get rid of the spirits.
The way its used as a trenching tool is by holding it by the lower half of the back of the blade. Look it has a cut out to wrap you hand around . It would still suck to dig like that. Looks like the most effective way would be digging doggy stay
I enjoy every video.
EDIT: might have been the "Barberous German Bayonet from WW1."
My grandfather who served in WW2, brought home with him a ~2ft long straight sword, with one side being very sharp, and the other side being seriously serrated (like chainsaw serrated, but the serrations were NOT like the teeth of a basic saw, but actually every other tooth was angled left and then right). I THINK it had a gun mount on it, and it had a straight black handle, and it was at least a 1/3rd of an inch thick, ending with a standard knife-tip. ...He served in North Africa, any idea what this sword was?
Sawbacked bayonets were were issued to German pioneer troops (combat engineers). For use as tools when building fieldworks, shelters or cutting firewood
etc.
Despite sensational reports in the Allied press sawback blades were not intended to inflict cruel wounds. Nor were they illegal for military use (the Swiss Army also used sawback bayonets).
Sawback bayonets ceased to be issued in 1916, as an economy measure. They were supposed to be recalled for recycling. But many veterans carried them until the end of the War.
Perfect when used with Elbow Destruction and Power Slap
Someone here remembered the basics of CQC and the 1&2,1&2... Btw, dude still making tours and "demos", and its still ridicolous and has comments disabled on his yt.
I am curious about the sharpened area on the rear of the spine/back of the bowie type. It seems too far back for chopping and awkward for fine cutting. Or it could be an unfortunate later modification.
Those are saw teeth, if you're talking about the area near the guard. The area near the tip is the "false edge", so called because whether or not it's sharp is up to the user. False edge makes it easier for thrusting.
That blade looks dangerously thin aswell. This coupled with the doctrine to use them as an entrenching tool must've kept quite a lot of bladesmiths busy.
Majority of those never saw dirt, nor the field either.
"Im not sure how this can be used as an entrenching tool"
Stares violently in ka-bar