I really appreciate your videos, Mike! So often when you see a “versus” video it turns out to be a comparison of similar (but not identical) factory presets. Almost more of a comparison of how well the preset sound designers did against the listener’s personal preference rather than a comparison of the sound engine itself. Nice to see a true apples to apples comparison here.
Nice demo! Thanks. People just like saying STUFF. These instruments sound identical. I've wanted an SY99 for years to pair with my TG77, but I think it's more expedient to buy a modern synth with FM.
Absotely NOT You need to understand that the old yamaha fm sy77-tg77-SY99 -dxè ,dx10à et...are using a lookup tables for the opertors. A lookup table stores just a quarter portion of a sine wave , by scanning through this lookup table you get a sine wave , and later generations gave you sine variations . Now what do I care you might think to yourself , well these lookuptables are rather lofi compared to modern FM synths with uses Calculated sine waves instead of lookuptables . Therefore , the lookuptables are def. a part of the gritty sound , just play a verr low note on a sy77-SY99 and you'll hear it . This part of the harm .
Interesting and well programmed! Old synths are "nice to have" these days! I loved my sy99 and it sounded as good when I sold it as when I bought it - well gigged - from a keyboard player. However it was in a shocking exterior state with half the buttons non-functional and if you have ever opened one up you will realise what a timebomb it is (although the keybed was still sweeeeet)! That case is brimming with boards just waiting to fail from one end to the other! Hence its great that a modern keyboard can emulate those old sounds. I know people go on about RCM but really was it such a big deal? And ..... as everyone says "will you hear the difference it in a mix" if you can't quite get it to sound the same! (P.S. the very first few notes you played in the middle of the keyboard I thought sounded better on the 99 maybe you just hit them harder! .... but the rest was identical after that to my ears albeit these were pure FM patches - sling in some AWM and you would struggle to get them to sound the same I guess - and modern samples are surely going to sound waaaaaayyyy better although the 99 samples always sounded ok to me once in a voice and with the ancient but still effective Yam FX over them)
Knock on wood; I've had that SY99 since 1991 (replaced the SY77 with it) and it still works. I had the floppy drive replaced. As for RCM or running samples through FM oscillators, it is really great for creating distortion FX. I'll give you a few examples. For this first one, I ran the strings into the FM oscillators to make give them some distortion bowing. www.midnightsunent.com/SY99highstrings.mp3 Same thing but done with a sax sound: www.midnightsunent.com/SY99sax.mp3 You can really hear it with this french horn sample. www.midnightsunent.com/Frenchhorn.mp3 I made a lot of songs and sounds on the SY99. Here are a few more. This movie cue is 100% SY99. www.midnightsunent.com/SY99descent.mp3 Other cues paired the SY99 with my E-MU Pro/Cussion. What an amazing pair! My SY had 1.5 megs of sample RAM, which I stuck a bunch of sounds in. www.midnightsunent.com/SY99Fear.mp3 www.midnightsunent.com/SY99rendezous.mp3 Here's the beginning of that highstrings song www.midnightsunent.com/SY99barscene.mp3 www.midnightsunent.com/SY99Harley.mp3 www.midnightsunent.com/SY99stalking.mp3 www.midnightsunent.com/SYwavestation.mp3 www.midnightsunent.com/SYtangerine.mp3 www.midnightsunent.com/SY99THX.mp3 www.midnightsunent.com/SYbigguy.mp3 www.midnightsunent.com/SYworking.mp3 Here are a few I didn't make but love: www.midnightsunent.com/SY99roche5.mp3 www.midnightsunent.com/SY99monolith.mp3 www.midnightsunent.com/SY99alaska.mp3 www.midnightsunent.com/SY99clockwork.mp3 www.midnightsunent.com/SY99environment.mp3 www.midnightsunent.com/SY99harmonica.mp3 And, yes, the Kronos can do a lot of this and so much more.
Great video, Mike 👍 Really admire that you know each engine so well that you could program the exact same patch between them. Honestly the fine detail of matching the oscillator levels and envelope times/slopes... wow. Or did you do something a bit easier like upload the same DX7 patch into each?
I just loaded the patch, but I did do some fine tuning by ear, with a couple of the oscillators. Ironically, I originally got the patch from the TX816 and converted it for the SY99, by doing some math conversions.
I clearly prefer the SY99 FM sound compared to the kronos. I am not one of those people that has been telling that or care for that matter because I didnt even knew about the kronos existence till I saw this video, I am not a workstation kind of person, so nothing against it in particular really. But I can clearly hear a difference from your video (I dont have any of them). Most notably on the more simple sounds, even with just one operator as you tried at 1:35 , the sy99 somehow manages to have some kind of attack characteristic with a more acoustic feel. On the other hand the kronos with one operator sounds like a simple sine wave throu a vca, accurate but less appealing. It could be just a slight difference in programming, but with such a simple one operator comparison, it must be something else. Its not a big difference anyway, but yeah, for SY type sounds I would prefer the 99 anytime.
FS1R sounds a bit rough in comparison. By that time they were using DSPs which have fixed sample rates across the whole sound engine. The SY77 and SY99 use a chip for each section, each is independent and can run at whatever clock rate they like, varying it to suit. Also there will be all manner of smoothing tricks in hardware, filters to eliminate harsh frequencies. Compare the smoothness of an SY77 and SY99 to early 2000 VAs, their filters are rough, aliasing all over the shop.
I would have thought that the older D/A stage imparts a more retro sound in the SY99. Much in the same way that the original DX7 sounds creamier than the IID/FD and S. Nice video though, thank you.
Hello Mike .Thank you for this video.If you allow me to ask a question outside the context of this video about SY99.for example if it can be used as a midi controller for the DAW studio, because I can not find the octave transport function or note shift.On the site the utility is ,but works only for internal sounds and not for MIDI OUT Please if you have time to explain to me because I just put SY99 in the studio and I can not work as I really need transpose and octave.Excuse me for my bad english
Mike: Where can I get the best Combi/Pgm sound libraries for Oasys? Welcome your thoughts on this subject of aftermarket sound sets. THANKS for all the great vids.
I'm assuming you already have the EXi Expasnion from korguser.net? I put all the sounds together in this download: www.midnightsunent.com/FULLSET.PCG Be sure and SAVE your old PCG, in case you need your original sounds and settings. You might want to post this question on www.korgforums.com and do a search there. Also, check the DOWNLOADS section of OASYS, plus you can get Kevin Nolan's DX7 sound file, in the Kronos download. I haven't tried these, but there are some at karma-lab: www.karma-lab.com/sounds/oasys.html
I am in a dilemma, I’m going to sell my old Korg M3 and buy a new workstation, don’t know if I will go for the Korg Kronos in 2020, what do you think? Thank you!
I don't know what your needs are, but Kronos is my favorite workstation. If you want to work with FM (VPM) and sampling, the Kronos is amazing. Not sure if they updated them, but the Fantom, Montage (MODX) didn't have proper sampling, Heck, even the Quantum and Prophet X lack proper implementation and/or enough polyphony. I don't think the Kurzweil PC4 does either. The Kronos disk streaming is fantastic. I recommend the Kronos 2 (wood sides) or the X, since their hard drives are twice the capacity as the Classic. The Kronos sequencer is not as easy to use as the M3's, but the audio track capability and more FX make Kronos preferable to me. As far as I'm concerned, Kronos is still the king.
scoopicman Thanks, I needed a little clarity. Exactly, sampling is essential for me, they talk about the new Fantom as if it had a good sampler, but it feels like it is only to trigger samples from the pads. Thanks for your answer✌️
@@METAMORA6329 Interesting timing. The Kronos Titanium was just announced. Same specs, but different look, plus Italian Grand. www.korg.com/uk/products/synthesizers/kronos_ti/ In Global, KSC Auto-Load, I actually unload the big 4 gigabyte pianos, so I can fit more samples. I'm streaming about 20 gigs worth.
I think A/B comparisons make no sense. Let me explain. I see you might have the Sony MDR-V6 headphones. I have a similar model, the MDR-7506 and then I tried Sennheiser HD280. There is a vast difference between the two headphones in A/B comparison, Sony being ultra bright, and the Sennheiser being very muted. However, after 2 days of using the Sennheiser, they sound normal to me, just like the Sony's did before. Why? Human brain adjusts the hearing. So you can do A/B comparison all day long, and I think it's completely irrelevant. Also, comparing single notes without any musical context doesn't make any sense, either. I recently switched from Integra-7 to Roland U-110. Guess what, I can play the same music on both. After EQ'ing out the U-110's inherent noise in its samples, the U-110 sounds surprisingly good. Sure, single notes on Integra-7 might sound "better", but in musical context, it all becomes quite irrelevant. What matters is the instrument's overall musical playability. Also, if I may suggest, a weighted 88-note keyboard brings out FM's expression substantially, which contributes to that most important factor: instrument playability in musical context.
Andrew, I said that in a mix, it would be hard to differentiate. I've been using this particular sound (program) since 1988, including different feature movies I scored in 1990 and 2001. It sounded best on the DX7 & TX816. I then programmed it on the SY77 & SY99. Then, I put it in use on OASYS, then the Kronos. I've gone through many headphones and speakers in all that time My point being that the Kronos can cover my sounds from over 30 years ago, even if it isn't exactly the same, it is close enough. Same sound played musically on the OASYS: ua-cam.com/video/OA_xrr7LALI/v-deo.html Now the same sound with me on the DX7/TX816, in 1991: ua-cam.com/video/Wrv8_aQ0Azg/v-deo.html I disagree that an 88 key weighted keyboard is more expressive for this program. The fast strike and aftertouch capability of semi-weighted is easier for me. I don't play in a classical style, so I prefer semi-weighted for strings, synths, percussion and other non-piano sounds. For example, fast snare repeats on weighted is hard for me.
scoopicman i read you can use them as operators in sy99. you can do this in the kronos? im trying to figure out what this kronos thing cant do and it seems it can do it all except maybe formant synthesis lol. i wonder if you could recreate d-50 patches with this as well?
@@junglsmor Yes, the sample can modulate the operator, or you can turn the input operator to 0 HZ and modulate the sample with another operator. Like the SY99, you can do distortion attacks, when you want the samples to "bark." Unfortunately, I never programmed a D-50, but the Kronos is deep enough that I will never fully plumb its depths.
scoopicman thats awesome. another youtuber just told me the opposite that the fm engine doesnt do any samples. but youre saying you can. i believe you. and im sure if this can do sy99 it can probably do d50 with all the engines it has. maybe not exact but who cares. its great how versatile the sound can be
@@junglsmor Gotta watch what those youtubers say. :>) Yes, there is a PCM oscillator, the 6 operators, Noise, Waveshapers, plus external sound input. Read the second paragraph, here: www.korguser.net/oasys/version/1_3/mod-7/ You can also watch me input a sample signal, at the 11:36 mark of this video: ua-cam.com/video/fXz_l594hEY/v-deo.html
I really appreciate your videos, Mike! So often when you see a “versus” video it turns out to be a comparison of similar (but not identical) factory presets. Almost more of a comparison of how well the preset sound designers did against the listener’s personal preference rather than a comparison of the sound engine itself. Nice to see a true apples to apples comparison here.
Nice demo! Thanks. People just like saying STUFF. These instruments sound identical. I've wanted an SY99 for years to pair with my TG77, but I think it's more expedient to buy a modern synth with FM.
They're both identical. No one is going to hear any difference in a mix. It's cool to hear how the 99 still stand against a much younger newer beast.
Absotely NOT
You need to understand that the old yamaha fm sy77-tg77-SY99 -dxè ,dx10à et...are using a lookup tables for the opertors.
A lookup table stores just a quarter portion of a sine wave , by scanning through this lookup table you get a sine wave , and later generations gave you sine variations .
Now what do I care you might think to yourself , well these lookuptables are rather lofi compared to modern FM synths with uses Calculated sine waves instead of lookuptables .
Therefore , the lookuptables are def. a part of the gritty sound , just play a verr low note on a sy77-SY99 and you'll hear it .
This part of the harm .
Thanks Mike. A very good answer to all those who said "SY-99 get a warmer sound" and so on !!
Interesting and well programmed! Old synths are "nice to have" these days! I loved my sy99 and it sounded as good when I sold it as when I bought it - well gigged - from a keyboard player. However it was in a shocking exterior state with half the buttons non-functional and if you have ever opened one up you will realise what a timebomb it is (although the keybed was still sweeeeet)! That case is brimming with boards just waiting to fail from one end to the other! Hence its great that a modern keyboard can emulate those old sounds. I know people go on about RCM but really was it such a big deal? And ..... as everyone says "will you hear the difference it in a mix" if you can't quite get it to sound the same! (P.S. the very first few notes you played in the middle of the keyboard I thought sounded better on the 99 maybe you just hit them harder! .... but the rest was identical after that to my ears albeit these were pure FM patches - sling in some AWM and you would struggle to get them to sound the same I guess - and modern samples are surely going to sound waaaaaayyyy better although the 99 samples always sounded ok to me once in a voice and with the ancient but still effective Yam FX over them)
Knock on wood; I've had that SY99 since 1991 (replaced the SY77 with it) and it still works. I had the floppy drive replaced. As for RCM or running samples through FM oscillators, it is really great for creating distortion FX. I'll give you a few examples. For this first one, I ran the strings into the FM oscillators to make give them some distortion bowing. www.midnightsunent.com/SY99highstrings.mp3 Same thing but done with a sax sound: www.midnightsunent.com/SY99sax.mp3 You can really hear it with this french horn sample. www.midnightsunent.com/Frenchhorn.mp3
I made a lot of songs and sounds on the SY99. Here are a few more. This movie cue is 100% SY99. www.midnightsunent.com/SY99descent.mp3 Other cues paired the SY99 with my E-MU Pro/Cussion. What an amazing pair! My SY had 1.5 megs of sample RAM, which I stuck a bunch of sounds in. www.midnightsunent.com/SY99Fear.mp3
www.midnightsunent.com/SY99rendezous.mp3
Here's the beginning of that highstrings song www.midnightsunent.com/SY99barscene.mp3
www.midnightsunent.com/SY99Harley.mp3
www.midnightsunent.com/SY99stalking.mp3
www.midnightsunent.com/SYwavestation.mp3
www.midnightsunent.com/SYtangerine.mp3
www.midnightsunent.com/SY99THX.mp3
www.midnightsunent.com/SYbigguy.mp3
www.midnightsunent.com/SYworking.mp3
Here are a few I didn't make but love:
www.midnightsunent.com/SY99roche5.mp3
www.midnightsunent.com/SY99monolith.mp3
www.midnightsunent.com/SY99alaska.mp3
www.midnightsunent.com/SY99clockwork.mp3
www.midnightsunent.com/SY99environment.mp3
www.midnightsunent.com/SY99harmonica.mp3
And, yes, the Kronos can do a lot of this and so much more.
Great video, Mike 👍
Really admire that you know each engine so well that you could program the exact same patch between them. Honestly the fine detail of matching the oscillator levels and envelope times/slopes... wow. Or did you do something a bit easier like upload the same DX7 patch into each?
I just loaded the patch, but I did do some fine tuning by ear, with a couple of the oscillators. Ironically, I originally got the patch from the TX816 and converted it for the SY99, by doing some math conversions.
I clearly prefer the SY99 FM sound compared to the kronos. I am not one of those people that has been telling that or care for that matter because I didnt even knew about the kronos existence till I saw this video, I am not a workstation kind of person, so nothing against it in particular really. But I can clearly hear a difference from your video (I dont have any of them). Most notably on the more simple sounds, even with just one operator as you tried at 1:35 , the sy99 somehow manages to have some kind of attack characteristic with a more acoustic feel. On the other hand the kronos with one operator sounds like a simple sine wave throu a vca, accurate but less appealing. It could be just a slight difference in programming, but with such a simple one operator comparison, it must be something else. Its not a big difference anyway, but yeah, for SY type sounds I would prefer the 99 anytime.
Haa... there you go. I didn't realise the KRONOS had an FM generator in it.
Its year 2021 now but i still use my sy99 and dx7..
Sy99 is the best digital synth ever made by yamaha with the fs1r and vl1, the montage and mod6 are like kronos ... simples romplers ++
FS1R sounds a bit rough in comparison. By that time they were using DSPs which have fixed sample rates across the whole sound engine. The SY77 and SY99 use a chip for each section, each is independent and can run at whatever clock rate they like, varying it to suit. Also there will be all manner of smoothing tricks in hardware, filters to eliminate harsh frequencies. Compare the smoothness of an SY77 and SY99 to early 2000 VAs, their filters are rough, aliasing all over the shop.
I would have thought that the older D/A stage imparts a more retro sound in the SY99. Much in the same way that the original DX7 sounds creamier than the IID/FD and S. Nice video though, thank you.
Agreed. I had this same sound in my DX7 and TX816. It was pretty creamy. :>) ua-cam.com/video/Wrv8_aQ0Azg/v-deo.html
@@scoopicman what is that patch called is it a custom patch made by you ?
@@efeeroglu1127 It is called, "O.SPH.26.6." It's a TX816 program. You should be able to find it in here: www.midnightsunent.com/Tfi6.syx
@@scoopicmanThat's awesome.I will try to import to my SY99 lets see how it goes Thanks ! :-)
You should make more video’s, great job. Totally agree with your short analysis.
Well Done Friend...
Hello Mike .Thank you for this video.If you allow me to ask a question outside the context of this video about SY99.for example if it can be used as a midi controller for the DAW studio, because I can not find the octave transport function or note shift.On the site the utility is ,but works only for internal sounds and not for MIDI OUT Please if you have time to explain to me because I just put SY99 in the studio and I can not work as I really need transpose and octave.Excuse me for my bad english
You can transpose with the MIDI Master Controller. I made this quick video for you: ua-cam.com/video/4bc0aXil8wc/v-deo.html
Mike: Where can I get the best Combi/Pgm sound libraries for Oasys? Welcome your thoughts on this subject of aftermarket sound sets. THANKS for all the great vids.
I'm assuming you already have the EXi Expasnion from korguser.net? I put all the sounds together in this download: www.midnightsunent.com/FULLSET.PCG Be sure and SAVE your old PCG, in case you need your original sounds and settings.
You might want to post this question on www.korgforums.com and do a search there. Also, check the DOWNLOADS section of OASYS, plus you can get Kevin Nolan's DX7 sound file, in the Kronos download. I haven't tried these, but there are some at karma-lab: www.karma-lab.com/sounds/oasys.html
I am in a dilemma, I’m going to sell my old Korg M3 and buy a new workstation, don’t know if I will go for the Korg Kronos in 2020, what do you think? Thank you!
I don't know what your needs are, but Kronos is my favorite workstation. If you want to work with FM (VPM) and sampling, the Kronos is amazing. Not sure if they updated them, but the Fantom, Montage (MODX) didn't have proper sampling, Heck, even the Quantum and Prophet X lack proper implementation and/or enough polyphony. I don't think the Kurzweil PC4 does either. The Kronos disk streaming is fantastic. I recommend the Kronos 2 (wood sides) or the X, since their hard drives are twice the capacity as the Classic. The Kronos sequencer is not as easy to use as the M3's, but the audio track capability and more FX make Kronos preferable to me. As far as I'm concerned, Kronos is still the king.
scoopicman Thanks, I needed a little clarity. Exactly, sampling is essential for me, they talk about the new Fantom as if it had a good sampler, but it feels like it is only to trigger samples from the pads. Thanks for your answer✌️
@@METAMORA6329 Interesting timing. The Kronos Titanium was just announced. Same specs, but different look, plus Italian Grand. www.korg.com/uk/products/synthesizers/kronos_ti/
In Global, KSC Auto-Load, I actually unload the big 4 gigabyte pianos, so I can fit more samples. I'm streaming about 20 gigs worth.
I think A/B comparisons make no sense. Let me explain. I see you might have the Sony MDR-V6 headphones. I have a similar model, the MDR-7506 and then I tried Sennheiser HD280. There is a vast difference between the two headphones in A/B comparison, Sony being ultra bright, and the Sennheiser being very muted. However, after 2 days of using the Sennheiser, they sound normal to me, just like the Sony's did before. Why? Human brain adjusts the hearing. So you can do A/B comparison all day long, and I think it's completely irrelevant.
Also, comparing single notes without any musical context doesn't make any sense, either. I recently switched from Integra-7 to Roland U-110. Guess what, I can play the same music on both. After EQ'ing out the U-110's inherent noise in its samples, the U-110 sounds surprisingly good. Sure, single notes on Integra-7 might sound "better", but in musical context, it all becomes quite irrelevant. What matters is the instrument's overall musical playability.
Also, if I may suggest, a weighted 88-note keyboard brings out FM's expression substantially, which contributes to that most important factor: instrument playability in musical context.
Andrew, I said that in a mix, it would be hard to differentiate. I've been using this particular sound (program) since 1988, including different feature movies I scored in 1990 and 2001. It sounded best on the DX7 & TX816. I then programmed it on the SY77 & SY99. Then, I put it in use on OASYS, then the Kronos. I've gone through many headphones and speakers in all that time My point being that the Kronos can cover my sounds from over 30 years ago, even if it isn't exactly the same, it is close enough. Same sound played musically on the OASYS: ua-cam.com/video/OA_xrr7LALI/v-deo.html Now the same sound with me on the DX7/TX816, in 1991: ua-cam.com/video/Wrv8_aQ0Azg/v-deo.html I disagree that an 88 key weighted keyboard is more expressive for this program. The fast strike and aftertouch capability of semi-weighted is easier for me. I don't play in a classical style, so I prefer semi-weighted for strings, synths, percussion and other non-piano sounds. For example, fast snare repeats on weighted is hard for me.
Yamaha sy99 best
can you add the samples in the same way you can with the sy99?
Yes!
scoopicman i read you can use them as operators in sy99. you can do this in the kronos? im trying to figure out what this kronos thing cant do and it seems it can do it all except maybe formant synthesis lol. i wonder if you could recreate d-50 patches with this as well?
@@junglsmor Yes, the sample can modulate the operator, or you can turn the input operator to 0 HZ and modulate the sample with another operator. Like the SY99, you can do distortion attacks, when you want the samples to "bark." Unfortunately, I never programmed a D-50, but the Kronos is deep enough that I will never fully plumb its depths.
scoopicman thats awesome. another youtuber just told me the opposite that the fm engine doesnt do any samples. but youre saying you can. i believe you. and im sure if this can do sy99 it can probably do d50 with all the engines it has. maybe not exact but who cares. its great how versatile the sound can be
@@junglsmor Gotta watch what those youtubers say. :>) Yes, there is a PCM oscillator, the 6 operators, Noise, Waveshapers, plus external sound input. Read the second paragraph, here: www.korguser.net/oasys/version/1_3/mod-7/ You can also watch me input a sample signal, at the 11:36 mark of this video: ua-cam.com/video/fXz_l594hEY/v-deo.html
Kronos does it alll easy