I've known for years this synth was DEEP,
but holy shit mang! Dammmne!
Just picked up an SY77 and this is great. This has really helped me get a better understanding of this wonderful synth. Thanks
Thanks so much for this tutorial - you are a great teacher. especially appreciate the simplification of the envelopes. i feel like starting from this point will help me understand the more complex functions of the envelopes with some practice
Thank you. An often heard argument is that the TG /SY are a pain in the a** to program. Thank you for this video. It will help people to understand FM. Nice tutorial. Well done.
Great video. I have a TG-77 and I think the major problem with FM synthesis, or more specifically, creating patches, is there's no way for the average user to plan how to make a sound. It's far too technical. It's not like you can have a sound in your head and think "ah, yes I'll need 3 parallel oscillators modulating one carrier added to 2 serial oscillators modulating a second carrier with some feedback on of the modulators - that will be algorithm 47" and even though they tried to make it accessible on the 77s with the big screens, it's just too fiddly navigating screens. Maybe if you do it full-time, you get a feel for what the different algorithms sound like, but I don't imagine many musicians would put that much effort in. At least knob-twiddling gives instant feedback.
@B M Yes, it is important to have an idea in your head about the kind of sound you’re trying to make before you simply start programming, but with practice you’ll learn how to do it. It does take some time to get to grips with FM synthesis, as even a simple 4 operator synth is very different in its function than a traditional subtractive synth. Even knowing the different algorithms and when to use which one is a whole new world.
The SY77 is probably not the first synth I’d suggest to someone trying to learn FM synthesis. I’d suggest checking out something like the Reface DX or even the Opsix. The Reface may simplify it enough that you could get a good understanding of the basics of FM sound creation or the Opsix may be the knobby hands on FM synth you need for faster programming to help you stay inspired.
Good luck! The SY77 when learned is such an amazing synth, even by today’s standards!
@@huntergalloway3944 I prefer to have a preset sound an to manipulate that. I prefer to jam and tweak a little. Sound design is a whole other skill level that requires concentration and patience. If I spend too much time menus diving I’ll never have a single jam completed.
I can feel the groove leaving when I waste too much time on designing a sound. Not cool…
Hats off to designers who can also jam
The best FM tutorials I have seen on UA-cam are by this guy: www.youtube.com/@madFame/videos
Oh! Thank you so much! That's really worth video you made! Once I read the manual but the video tutorial + practice are way better for me. Saved!
Thank you very much for this - especially for demystifying the EG page!🤘🏽
Great! I feel a bit more encouraged now to delve into my MODX fm engine again.
Exceptionally useful, thank you!
Thanks for the extremely helpful vid! Subscribed, in hopes of more TG77 vids to come...
The sound you ended up with was better than 99% of the demos I've watched. You should make a bank of sounds to sell. I generally hate presets and I really hate FM presets but love the crazy sounds they're capable of. The SY77 was used by Eno, Skinny Puppy, and Front 242.
Very nice! Thank you!
This was a very good tutorial, thank you!
Excellent video , very helpful ,thanks
Do you know about the following trick
Choose afm+awm , so awm rom can be chosen as modulators..
Now go to the AWM voice page and go into waveset , change waveset to = AFM
This replaces the awm (sample) part with 'the whole afm structure itse;f " , meaning the output of the whole AFM structure can now be a modulator for ultraah feedback
amazing, thanks a lot !!!
Ive started to collect these weird over the top synth from the not too distant past.
this is an awesome video, good on you for putting it up. ive owned sy99 since 2017, i use it on and off when i get time. i understand programming, its a great and fulfilling hobby of mine.. but still to this day the envelopes i have to stop and really think about what i am doing.. there is no winging it! coming from traditional ADSR and then getting into sound design with an old yamaha you would think envelopes will be the easy part... no way 😂yamaha fm is a different beast. same as dx7
Thank you. My next video will show tips and tricks that make the envelopes as easy as any ADSR ;-)
Thanks I learned some neat tricks in this video! Like the envelope magnifier I wasn't aware of. All in all it's a nice synth, but somehow I don't use it very often. In my opinion the biggest pain point is the envelopes.. it takes time to go through all the stages, for all the operators. It's nowhere hands on as the ADSR control of an analogue synth, it's not easy to find the "sweet spot"of sounds...
Should have watched this years ago..would have saved lots of time 😀
BTW: Pressing EDIT/Compare will kill the hanging note. (In edit mode so you dont loose the patch nor you have to save it then)
30:24
Noppes that wrong , That tiny litlle tab does not say " send out a copy of myself "
That tiny little tab is the second input of operator 1 , which as you demonstrated takes the output of operator 1 , thus feedback
JUst nitpicking here :)
I think such videos always need an oscilloscope and FFT spectrum view. Otherwise you can't really see what effect your changes have.
Still I learned a ton from your video about how to opperate the Yamaha TG and SY! So far I only played and loaded prefab patches. Maybe I will try myself to build a patch.
Can you point me in a direction where I can find out more about and/or hear some examples of using AWM as an FM source? I just read the manual and only saw one small mention of it. Thx.
Happy 2023!
I bought an SY-77 this weekend and thanks to your video introduction into fm I realize that this device can be an absolute monster in sound complexity, but also very intimidating for FM beginners like myself.
I assume that the parameter changes are sent out through MIDI so one can record then and later "play back" to any cool sound one ran into during experimenting and consequently lost through later tweaking?
Hmm... I'm not sure I understand your question, but the SY77 will send send midi information like note on/off, velocity, aftertouch, pitch bend, etc., however I'm not sure what exactly will be sent beyond that if anything.
I only have the rack version. Both the SY and TG rely on MIDI sysex information to program patches and unfortunately sysex is handled very differently than say CC messages. Sysex is generally not realtime so you would probably not be able to capture that in a DAW for example. Hope that answered your question.
@@unalienate Thanks for the super quick reply! I believe most synths/keyboards that have real time parameter controllers like sliders and rotary dials will send it out these changes through MIDI so one can record then in the DAW and play them back later. I was hoping that changing parameters in the edit screens would also be sent out like this. I'll have a look at the MIDI implementation chart later. I wouldn't expect the device to send out complete SysEx dump messages on every small tweak as that would be way too slow.
@@nkronert hey guys, just want to let you all know the tg77 does send out sysex messages for every micro tweak of every single parameter. these messages can be recorded into a DAW and played back but not only that, the tg77 can be controlled in real time, just like an analog synth, by a midi controller that can send sysex messages such as the novation sl mk1 and 2 series. i have made several videos about this feature on my channel as well as many others about this fantastic synthesizer! here's a link to something to get started : ua-cam.com/video/1wZfr2SrRjs/v-deo.html
Amazing sound besides the tutorial. I own a sy99 and Fs1r ( plus dx7, dx 100, tx81z, dx7II) . I think FM is the best synthesis because is the most expressive, more expensive than an accoustic instrument. Just adding more velocity when u play can change ( if u want) the sound drastically…. Anyway great video. Thanks a lot. Cheers
Philippe ftom France
Hi... I think The best way for this synth is Pick a sound you like then edit the Heck out of it
It really is powerful , but also seems extremely tedious to edit. I imagine factory patches would have been developed with an in house software editor. I wonder how the UX compares on the Modx. I’d probably go for the Korg op six if I wanted hardware fm without the pain.
Thank you so much!
Page 242 = Front 242 :]
Great Tutorial, Thanks!
On the SY77, there are two modwheels. Do you have any idea, how to anything with their movement?
If you hit the second-to-right button underneath the screen, it will bring up what controls what with regard to modulation. I forget right offhand how to change that up, but it isn’t difficult.
great video tut! can someone recommend a nice free software editor for this synth? Cheers
Could you test something on your tg77 , I think I found a nasty bug that went under the radar for 30 years .
Initialise an FM patch
Choose mono or poly FM , doesn't matter .
Choose algo 30 , this has TWO parallel carriers , namely operator 1 and operator 3 , mute all operators
Set both opeators to output volume =120
No fm going on , just two carrier sine waves at fll volume
GO to sensitvity tab and set both operators velocity to +7
Now , draw a note in your sequencer with a velocity settings of anything ABOVE 110 , the result is that the operators will CLIP instantly , the sinewave will fold over and will produce a nasty clipping sound
Can you confirm this bug ?
DON't forget , velocity in DAW above 110
Thanks in advance
Yes. I've investigated and determined it's not so much a "bug" as it is expected unwanted behavior. The issue (I believe) is in the summing math of two carrier operator algorithms. Setting both operators to 127 (max) and velocity scaling to +7 results in wave folding at higher velocity values.
Full output scaled up is > 100%. (As a result, both carriers are added but not scaled.) This happens with any algorithms that have only two carriers; algorithms with more don't exhibit this. I think the "bug" is that it doesn't happen with three and four carrier algorithms. ;-)
I have to correct my comment above. It WILL happen with algorithms with more than two carriers. But all carriers must be set 127 and +7. Small point, but still suggests to me that it's working as should be expected, summing and scaling two carriers with the above >100% amplitude and any other carrier with less than 100% amplitude does not result in foldover distortion. Summing any algorithm with all carriers >100% amplitude does.
man keep this shit mystic dog :)
Appreciate it ! If I plug in the machine and nothing turns on. Does it mean my battery is dead? After replacement, will I get my sounds back the way assigned to midi channels the way I left it over 10 years ago?
Hi Wayne. I've recapped my power supply and replaced my display, so though I have had my machine open I'm not a repair expert. Unfortunately, a dead battery wouldn't prevent the machine from turning on. If literally nothing happens (no display, no lights on buttons etc.) you are most likely dealing with a dead power supply. Not something you could replace easily or with off-the-shelf parts. My dad told me when troubleshooting, start with the easiest and cheapest thing first, you might want to take a look at the power cord itself, maybe it's damaged, that would be something any electronic repair guy could fix.
@@ryangallagher4914 Appreciate it. Yeah, no power at all. I will start with the power cord to see if it's cut in any way. Your dad is correct, mine told me the same thing.
Does it sound the same than a DX7?
It's capable of similar sounds for sure. But it's also capable of a lot the DX series can't do. There's a lot more flexibility in routing feedback, and then there's the whole rompler side of the synth.
There are definite similarities. It can make almost any DX-series sound. But the SY77 also includes sampled sounds. They can be used alone or in conjunction with the FM sounds.
The TG77 can play the DX7 patches,. But it doesn’t sound like a DX7. The DX7 sounds fatter and warmer, and more vintage than TG/SY. Dynamic is better on the DX7. But a DX7 doesn’t sound like a DX7IID or IIFD.
I think the value ranges for DX7 and TG77 don't match 1:1. So even if you load the same patch, the parameters might be slightly off. Consider also the DX7mkI had 12 bit DAC, and the MkII had 16..
Yeah, this is how it goes. To peeps, who do not know that piece of equipment it is a mindfok.
Please turn on operator One, and do hear something, not nothing.
This is scary shit. Do never attempt to buy something that complicated.
Stay simple. Buy American.
Why don't you use an editor? It's 10x less of a nightmare, modifying stuff in 1 mouse click instead of tediously and slowly switching pages and pressing buttons while not even being able to sit in the center of the stereo field cause the synth is in some rack.
Just preference. Somehow I really hate working with the mouse and computer to make music or program synths. I think if I went that route, I'd probably just use an FM soft synth. The TG/SY77 have some tricks still lacking in most hardware and VST synths. Maybe I'm just weird--OK, surely I am--but I enjoy working through the little 240x64 window. Well, sometimes anyway. Horses for courses as they say!
Is wonderful to find this clever introduction to the TG77/SY77, thank you a lot. Keep the great work!
Glad you like it!