The COMPLETE FAILURE of Melbourne's Webb Dock Line
Вставка
- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- My discord server: / discord
Some images in this video are from Marcus Wong’s Rail Gallery
railgallery.wo...
Thank you to my channel members:
Sjam2711
Onur Ayçiçek
RailRunner76801
Quinn Sadler
Sean McNamara
Stephen Howton
12tiger68
OutSasha
Phonixrmf
Jeplar
I've done a lot of volunteering at West Gate Park and spent an unhealthy amount of time hypothesising about making use of the line for moving various materials such as mulch, soil , green-waste, pallets of plants and heavy tools from one end to the other instead of the current solution of driving back and forth on the path with a ute and trailer.
You're right about this line flying under the radar. I'm Melbourne born and raised, very much interested in transit, and had no idea this line even existed. Thanks for making this video.
Wow! Talk about a blast from the past. I vaguely remember seeing the occasional train running along it. I'd totally forgotten.
1:56 just a correction, Victorian/Irish broad gauge is actually 1600mm/5ft 3in, not 1676mm/5ft 6in which is Indian gauge.
The airport line saga would suggest that they CAN put it off forever😉
The Murray river (road) bridge at Echuca was planned back in the 1860's. As a temporary expedient they put the road onto the rail bridge. That road is still on the rail bridge. For whatever reason the original planned alignment has never been used and has now been built over on the Moama side. So things can be put off for far longer than the airport saga. It hasn't reached one hundred and sixty years (yet?)
And the rail line to Doncaster.
Beat me to it.
Used to walk that line every lunchtime when at work.
Webb Dock line is an interesting walk. There’s no way it’ll ever be used again as the Docklands land - even though docklands is a white elephant, would be too valuable to build over.
Don’t forget there’s also the abandoned Maribyrnong line!
My dad has been taking me across that abandoned rail line since I was little. I've always wondered what happened to it and why it was abandoned. Now I know thanks!
Nice vid. Australian broad gauge is 5’3” 1 600 mm (Irish gauge). 5’6 1 676 mm is Indian broad gauge.
ah, the memories! we used to ride motorbikes all over fishermans bend back in the 70's. i feel sorry for kids growing up in port now. 1:31, the yanks built a rail line branching off the princes pier line pointing at howe parade then curving along barak road to the beachfront up to todd road. the buffers were at todd road. the tracks were there until about the mid 70's. i got a kick out of switching the points. some still worked. the big sheds the yanks built are visible on melbourne/1945 (or some name like that). 6:55, the weston langford site has a lot of pikkies of this line. i think he was involved in setting it up. he cant be blamed for only installing broad gauge. there are pikkies of dual gauge in the dock area. i think on the weston langford site. i blame the labor government for not fitting dual gauge. stupid! however, the biggest vandal was the kennett government who sold land off so it couldnt be used again. real stupid! however, necessity will find a way to get a line to webb dock.
I remember that its hard to believe its the same bay looking at the development there now. When I was a kid there were still sailing ships coming into Station and Princess Piers.
That was great. I saw the cyclone wire gates open at the South end of Spenser St Station once and followed a very slow moving freight train for as far as I could just because of the fascination of seeing it used and I didn't have a camera 😢 Thanks for the great vid again
i remember being held up waiting for a train on my way home from work but never on the way to work. I worked at GAF.
Waste of railway line, it would been so convenient particularly now instead of buses!
A couple of months back i saw a survey crew surveying the line in Lorimer Street
Thanks. I live in Port Melb and during covid started walking round Fisherman's Bend to get out of the house without many people about. Your video gives great context to what I see when I still go there for a nice quiet walk. But the most surprising part was the news that the pedestrian bridge over the Yarra was also part of the line. Much appreciated!
have a safe trip, looking forward to more fascinating stories when you return!
I'll miss your videos, but best wishes for your time in Japan. Thanks for everything you've shared with us.
I worked at the then Government Aircraft Factories (now Boeing Australia via another couple of name changes) until the late 80s and so saw the Webb Dock line from its beginning to nearly its end. I have always wondered why it was only broad gauge and what happened to it. Good video.
the line will be renewed when the swing or cantilever bridge over the Yarra next to the bolte bridge on the Yarraville side running into the rail yards at dyon rdi
Just a FYI, @ 3:04 you state that the line originated just north of Sothern Cross Station. In fact it was accessed from a re activated Vic. Dock line from the West Yd. The train would be run as a dock pilot departing the canal Yd. The bridge as built was laid duel gauge. I know because I had opportunity to drive a number of those trains.
Really interesting video, Qazzy. I found this entertaining and enjoyable. 👍🏻
Nice and informative video. I hope you have a great time in Japan. I've always wanted to go.
I travelled on the Port Melbourne line many a time as a kid to go fishing on Station pier.
I worked in the Melbourne yards from 1984 to 1988 and can provide you with a bit more information regarding the Webb Dock line and its workings in its early years if you like.
I'm very doubtful the train line from webb dock will ever be reopen again Freight Trains. Freight Trains are limited as they can only go at night. In australia the main mode of transportation is trucks and trucks can run 24/7.
Those sidings shown on Google Maps did exist.
* You can see them on historic imagery on Google Earth
* You _can_ see a trace of them on historic Google Street View images, if you look carefully at Todd Road images close to the buffers, particularly a 2010 image.
* Mark Bau's site has a signalling arrangements diagram for the line. The arrangement is that the "siding" to the left was a headshunt for a three-road yard that commenced at the west-end points and extended down to Todd Road. The line from the yard to Webb Dock itself diverged from the west end of the yard, but ran alongside the yard for some distance before diverging to the south.
Incidentally, that diagram shows that the line speed on the Webb Dock line was 25 kph.
I've long thought that Howe Parade in Port Melbourne looks like it was designed as a reserve for a railway, and there is a hint online that it was proposed perhaps as early as 1973 to build the Webb Dock line via that street.
And it's curious that the sidings are almost exactly in line with Howe Parade, perhaps suggesting that the sidings may have been part of an earlier plan via Howe Parade that was then adapted for the route actually built.
howe parade was intended as a rail extension back in the 1800's. it never got any further than that. the yanks built a line along the beach front to todd road in 1942. the points and track remained until the mid 70's.
@@vsvnrg3263 Thanks for that. I've possibly even heard that before, but couldn't recall any details to cite.
I once travelled this line on a DERM tour. Fascinating chance to go by rail. Turns out I might have been on the only passenger train to ever run on this line...
The Rail Tourist Association ran a tour on this line in September 1993 using DRC 42. Security was tight inside the dock gates, our shunter had his name and particulars taken! We also visited Appleton and Swanston Dock East.
Reckon Steamrail did a trip along ut too
Maybe more than one DERM tour.
I travelled by DERM to Webb Dock on an ARE tour as part of travelling on as many suburban sidings and routes before they were mostly pulled up. Lots now nearly forgotten but visible in early Melway maps.
I remember going on a field trip we’re we learned lifesaving neer webb dock and on the bus ride back to school we passed through the old trackage and I wonderd what it was
As it is not in use it would make a very good bike track that is very much needed to link the punt across the Yarra with the City.
I used to work on wharf road and everyday when I saw the track I wondered what line used to be there and what it was used for!
It was a monumental waste of money. The money should have been used on other rail freight infrastructure
6:48 that used to be a shunting yard, IIRC it had 4 tracks, as well as the sidings.
Thanks for the video, have a great time in Japan.🎉🎊💯
love your videos keep it up, i always seeing a recent upload
Thanks for a great insight to this line. I work on Lorimer St, but on the Western side of the Todd St intersection. I ride a motor bike and you need to be bloody careful as the old tracks also cross over here. It makes for a mish mash of road and old rail and its bloody dangerous. No one seems to take ownership of the crossover. A prefect example of the madness of bureaucracy. Have a great trip to Japan...be sure to watch Tokyo Vice before you go!🥃
Love these videos keep it up!
For DSTO, GMH, GAF. Kraft workers. waiting on windswept Lorimer Street for a 235/7/8 bus into the city was painful and ironic. Fortunately I knew an engineer who worked at GMH and if he saw me waiting on his way home would drive me (and anyone else with me ) directly to Spencer Street station. Before bolte bridge he drove past it anyway so it was no trouble. The busses went to Flinders st station . Getting an earlier train home from Spencer was very welcome given the rail loop pm direction and Flinders Street road traffic. Can't help but thinking how useful this line would have been as a light rail directly to southern cross especially with the apartments and the projected residential growth.
I used to see the sidings that ended at Todd road. That was early 2000s
I actually make a delivery a few times a week right next to it where it crosses the roundabout. It's great to finally know what it was for!
Dang your doing great since I’ve last seen you
I hope that you have a wonderful time in Japan
Hard to imagine where they'd put a freight line bridge alongside Webb Bridge given how much of the area is now residential. I suspect they'd now need to cross the Yarra at the west end of Appleton Dock.
If it were to reopen it would be a new bridge close to the Bolte Bridge
Why not use the alignment as a new tram line/route giving access to the park.
There's already a bus along Lorimer Street. Also the Westgate Punt, not far from Spotswood station.
It is not practical for a tram route as it is only a single track and there is no room to duplicate it. A single track is ok for an infrequent freight train, but not for a higher frequency tram service.
Very informative video! I had no idea this line had ever existed! Thanks 👍
Great video. Are you travelling to Japan for a holiday or (semi) permanently? Either way I am sure it will be difficult to make a positive video about Australia's train network again. Best wishes either way! 🙂
Just a holiday
I really hope this railway returns
Qazzy, very interesting video. At 1:19 to 1:31 you discuss the proposal to run the train line along the beach, as an extension of the Port Melbourne line, and you mention that resident opposition stopped this. I can tell you there were rail tracks there 60 years ago! I am 65 years old, and I distinctly remember going on family trips to Sandridge Beach in Port Melbourne as a child in the early 1960s and being fascinated with the abandoned railway line that ran along the beachfront. We used to have to step over the tracks to get to the beach. By the early 1960s the line appeared to have already been abandoned for some years, as the long reedy grass had grown around the tracks, there was salt air corrosion of the steel, and in many places the tracks were covered by sand drift. Many years later the tracks were removed, and there is no sign of them there now. I would be very interested to know what the purpose of this railway line was, where it started, and where it finished.
There was a branch line to Princess Pier that even was electrified at one point, but it didn't run along the beachfront itself.
Great info, thanks for sharing!!
They've been talking about reinstating the line since the early 2000s. It won't happen
Very interesting video 👌😃
Lindsay Fox convinced the State Govt that he could move freight cheaper and quicker than trains. Now hes stuffed that up he wants to buy rail lines for freight!
Is this the same guy who tried to steal a beach at Portsea?
@@bradleyfield3944 He didnt try he succeeded. Hes got the Govt in his pocket.
@@joereedsmith1531 You're kidding me!
@@bradleyfield3944 Wish I was Hes got a fence above high water mark extending into the sea. Hes always saying hes working class and rah rah but in truth he gets off on his power. The kids are worse. Money corrupts.
. Yes and he did steal it! Robber barons alive and well in Australia mot medieval England 😢
Have a good trip in japan btw to say hello say ko ni chu wa
I never knew about this!
0:06 im going to Japan too
so early i showed my humanties teacher abt u
What are human ties?
@@Rezaal i mean the subject basically history
@@ArexShorts No, you meant _humanities,_ not humanties!
@@PJRayment yes sorry
So strange to take out useful infrastructure instead of fixing the guage of rails. Also, Docklands Stadium is a shite heap.... I'd prefer a rail line instead of that pile of dogshite.
I don't see it happening while Vic is in so much debt.
Don't give up hope of the new rail bridge getting build because things were slowed down by the pandemic!
They were drunk when they finalised those gauge widths. Jebus.
What a fascinating abandoned line, even more fascinating that it may return in the future!
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I saw you at the buffet car on the Swan Hill train earlier 😅
I remeber another abandoned train line that i used to walk down all the time when i was a kid. It was in footscray and near a river i dont know the name of it tho
Mate you should see the rosstown railway line it was open for 1!!!!! day
the line was open for a number of years. Only some of the stations were open for a day
@@mathewferstl7042 alright go edit wiki then to suit your knowledge
@74_pelicans I wasn't trying to be rude, just a small correction. (I mean, the difference between 1 day and a couple years is pretty big)
First!! 😄 Nice one, very interesting topic. Never knew about this. Looks like a nice area to explore although I might wait until Spring! Enjoy your time in Japan.
0:00 you will not believe how many times i take the tram from that stop!
They made good progress building it in two years, and they're getting pretty good value out of the infrastructure left behind. Pretty good for Victoria.
I will never understand Australia's different train gauges all over the country.
Political stupidity has no bounds,
Because before Federation in 1901 the states were actually six separate colonies. Each one ran things its own way.
Not until 2004 were all state, and territory capitals linked by Standard Gauge rail.
Where will you be going in Japan?
The actual port freight facilities have moved out to near Laverton with the freight lines, they are actually dock freight facilities not near the water.
It was a massive political stunt at the time. The Libs hated the idea of trucks(Unions) taking freight off the wharves as it jammed up city roads. They built the line against public opposition. The plan was to consolidate all freight onto waiting trains at Webb, which might have taken up to three days for one train,then rail them to West Melbourne railyards for redistribution by rail to wherever in Vic and interstate they were destined, then be unloaded from trains onto local trucks at destination ,as trains dont fit in most transport yards.This multiple, slow ,cumbersome , expensive handling meant it could take more than 6 days for freight to reach customers interstate, Sydny Adelaide or Brisbane and so forth.
A truck could reach Sydney, within 24 hrs of unload from wharf , direct into receivers business and local containers could be delivered same day. It was a fiasco before it was built.
"The Libs hated the idea of trucks(Unions) taking freight off the wharves as it jammed up city roads."
Sounds like a good reason.
"They built the line against public opposition."
There'll always be someone opposing any plan.
"The plan was to consolidate all freight onto waiting trains at Webb, which might have taken up to three days for one train,..."
I know nothing about that side of things, but it sounds more like an invented objection than anything realistic. There are plans now for shuttles from the Melbourne port (not Webb Dock) to take trainloads of containers to distribution centres around Melbourne, with two or three trainload each day to each of three distribution centres. That would be completely unrealistic if it was taking days to make up a train.
"...for redistribution by rail to wherever in Vic and interstate they were destined, then be unloaded from trains onto local trucks at destination..."
That's normal. Most of the thousands of railed containers don't have their destination in a rail yard or private siding. Their trip is continued by truck. The very point of containers is that they can be easily swapped between modes.
Hang on! I thought that Labour were in power between 1986 to 1992! So who's to blame?
@@karlmorton9881 There are a *LOT* of people who will blame the Liberals for anything, even things that were built when Labor was in power.
will you be making videos on japanese public transport?
Probably not
@@QazzyTransport that’s fair
Is this another Labor disaster.
im in school rn
So bizarre that they build a line to nowhere, but they won’t build a line to the airport? 😮
That'd be the airport's fault not the state government.
@@captcaveman82 I think that has been proven not to be the case.