Leopard 2A7 vs T-90M(S) - Tank Arena Episode 1.
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- Опубліковано 27 тра 2024
- Welcome to the Tank Arena series, where we will be comparing various tanks and award them points in different categories that include firepower, fire control system, protection, survivability and mobility, 100 points maximum for each category which would make it 500 points in total, aaand based on that we will see which one would be a better tank, also we will compose a list and put tanks in place they deserve, and at the end, we will take a look at all the tanks we have compared and sort them, from the best to the worst.
In this episode, we will be comparing German Leopard 2A7 and Russian T-90M.
Patreon: / redeffect
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Sources:
gurkhan.blogspot.com/2018/08/9...
below-the-turret-ring.blogspo...
www.armyrecognition.com/germa... - Авто та транспорт
![[柴犬ASMR]曼玉Manyu&小白Bai 毛发护理Spa asmr](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0TsXQ7z2Dh4/mqdefault.jpg)
Ok, since a lot of people don't know those basics, I will put them in a single comment to spare you from commenting.
1. T-90M uses 2A82 and Afghanit!
- Wrong! Those have been proposed upgrades before it entered service, take a look at how 2A82 and Afghanit look like and try to point them out on T-90M.
2. Leopard 2A7 can fire LAHAT.
- Nope! Only certain number of Leopard 2A4 tanks have been given such ability, no other variant, including Leopard 2A7 have such ability.
This series focuses on comparing tanks as individual units, please stop telling me to include prices, logistics and other stuff, thanks!
Also I want to point out I made a typo at the final score where I listed 75pts for Leopard 2A7's protection instead of 78pts.
Can u do a vedio on India's Arjun mk2
How do you estimate these tanks armour?
I didnt understand the armor protection of the 2A7. So you say that the T90m can not penetrate the front armor of the 2A7 in distance of 1 to 2km?
@@muchi123456 the turret not the hull
The newest versions T-90 M which entered in service in 2017 uses the 2A82-1M
You forgot spawn-points, and repair costs.
2 Dank 2 Go lol
oof the Leopard 2A6 would have horrific repair costs if gajibbles adds it.
Edit: WHEN they add it. It's only a matter of time since we got 2a6
@@RedVRCC Oh we have it alright.
@@marcusmaduro8891 yeah I figured that out now
And stock grind
Easily my favorite tank channel on youtube. Unbiased, researched, no robot voice, interesting, cites and provides source, and fantastic quality for a channel with only 8k subs. I'm so glad I found you, my knowledge of tanks has increased dramatically over the 5 months I've been watching.
Keep it up please.
Thanks a lot, I appreciate it, really
@@RedEffectChannel Never make robot voice, thats all what we want :D I dont care if you use some annoying dupstab intros or some shit but pls never use robot voice.
@FBI tell me where is the bias
@@napalmblast6550 the abrams is much better than the leopard 2 and t90
For the most part the bias he does have is I think due to misinformation
I think crew comfort would be a nice addition as it dictates how effective the crews will be over extended periods of time.
And training
@@yourlordandsavior6940 training is hard to both quantify as well as know.
I'd say using the base assumption of similar training and experience is fair. Esp since these one on one situations are highly unlikely.
tell the loader how comfortable his servece is
@@RedboRF My back, my back...
Well if that’s the case than the T-90 would take the cake. It has an auto loader for the main gun. This can really minimize crew fatigue especially during long stretches in combat.
Reverse speed is something really important that the current war Shows. So that is a clear advantage of the Leo
true but he mentions that the transmission was unknown at the time. I guess a lot of people thought they would have developed a transmission with better reverse by now
75+100+75+70+85=?????
How did you get 408?
I noticed that as well,lol ;D
he did say 78 points instead of 75
Russian bias
@Blue Sky It's a war thunder joke
from the pinned top comment: "Also I want to point out I made a typo at the final score where I listed 75pts for Leopard 2A7's protection instead of 78pts."
Great video as always!!
Hello
Thanks a lot! :D
@@RedEffectChannel it's so well said 😀
Agreed I just found it, very good! Matsimus is among my personal favorites, amazing! Thanks for the video RedEffect new sub thanks both you guys lol : )
Hey Matsimus your Videos are Great, too!
Now, we'll probably be able to see how this battle will work out in reality
T90M's are taken out by very basic anti tank weapons so far.
T-90M weak to NLAW FGM-148 Javelin Panzerfaust 3 and if one were to be testing the Leopard 2A7V Leopard 2A7 against T-90M then it's Hull will be tested including the armor plate configuration inside the United States or Western Europe to see if Leopard 2A7 ammo can destroy T-90M.
Supposedly word is out that Germany has approved the export of their tanks to Ukraine, so we may soon find out which is the better tank. Supposedly Abrams M1's will be donated to Ukraine as well. This war has become a full scale global conflict by proxy, not sure if it will remain that way, maybe technically it will but in practice it's effectively a direct war. Russia has already lost, it just doesn't know how to give up and admit defeat which will not be good for anyone. We can expect the nuclear option being threatened a lot more by Russia, it's the last card that they have left.
We'll probably see 2A6, not 7.
But my money is on the cat, every time.
It sure builds up to ww3..
Think you will need to re-evaluate the T90M survivability.... atgm is popping them no hassle.
In fact, after seeing your and several other similar comments I checked and only found this one destroyed T-90M where it was disabled by a Carl Gustav and Russians destroyed it themselves to avoid capture.
@@Alexander-dr4mw 58 T90's have been destroyed at time of writing. Of those many by ATGM's such as the Carl Gustav. 1 instance of Russians blowing up their own tank does not make the trend of ATGM's being deadly to T90s as invalid. As we have seen from footage, the T90 cooks off just the same as a T80bvm.
@@Alexander-dr4mw I have seen atleast 2 other destroyed T-90M’s lurking arounf the internet with a few extra that were abandoned/disabled. The 2 destrot I saw I think were detroyed bt Javelins.
With reverse speed of 4 km/h for T-90, how the hell you give so high points for mobility?
Because blyat!
no retreat :)))
Bruh idk how he rates these tanks he’s probably Russian or something
@@janchovanec8624 t90ms is faster I believe
Because retreat is not a word in Russia
What gets a 100 points and what gets a 70 or a 50? i dont really understand how you rate the capability of these tanks.
100 points if there is nothing better than that, like the FCS of Leopard 2A7, together with T-14 Armata, K2 and M1A2C it is the best in the world, that is how I score them, I find the tank that is the best in certain category and take it as a base for comparison.
@Nicolai T
Leopard 2A7 and Leopard 2 Revolution received the ATT ability, and T-72B3 with Sosna-U was the first to receive ATT in Russian Army, T-90A with ESSA system does not have that ability, only with addition of Sosna-U on T-90M did it receive that ability
@@RedEffectChannel
great patience
👍👍
T90 better than Leopard.?
Are you from Russia.?
Hahaha
A tank is only as good as it’s crew.
This video is suddenly extremely relevant.
I heard that the leopard 2a7 has Kevlar layering in the crew compartment to catch shrapnels
It's called spall liners. Standard on western military vehicles since decades, not so much for russia though.
@@komradearti9935 Abrams has kevlar spall liners.
@@jonny2954 Russia historically could give two fucks about crew safety
@CR BZ Spall liners are on the inside of the steel hull, not part of the composite armor arrays.
@@nukeboy27 well the crew literally sits on the freaking ammo and the head of the tank is popped most of the times because of that. Yeah they don’t give a shit
Why does he mention the blowout penels on the T-90 but completely ignores the ones on the leo?
Russian bias my friend
He literally does mention it
How can the leopard have a score ending with an 8 when it receives only scores ending with a 5 and 0??? 😊
Out of Russian bias he gave Germany 3 bonus points.
have you re-done this video?
Just a minor comment: whatever T-90M new automatic transmission achieves, it surely doesnt improve reverse speed (or neutral turning) to the levels of western tanks, meaning the russian tank is less versatile in defensive scenarios.
I think the T-90M can pivot turn as well as most Western tanks.
@@albertoamoruso7711 it can not pivot, T-14 Armata is first tank in Russian service with that capability
@@RedEffectChannel ok thanks
And the weight is a bit more important than suggested in the video, as ground pressure, transmission/track ware, ease of recovery, transportability are all heavily dependent on weight.
@@EstellammaSS well its a simplified analysis on mobility, otherwise RedEffect would have to differentiate Tactical Mobility from Strategic Mobility and end up with a 30 min video instead...
What an outstanding (objective) analysis. Great job.
I always feel like having a powerful engine in a tank is very important in the case of future proofing a tank. The concept of armor and electronics can always be added, but having a bad horsepower and speed really limits the ability to add more armor kits to the tank.
The T-90M should have a significantly lower mobility score due to the 4 kph reverse speed!
Since ukrain soldiers kill T90 with pretty old shit, I say the Leo has pretty good chances to smoke a T90
No T-90M has been destroyed by ukrainians this far.
@@ytkomar1141 Was talking about just T90, but true. They only captured T90M or russians blew them up themselves
I am Russian and I can tell the truth that our tanks are worse because they are outdated for 40 years,and we have a poor country with a collapsing economy is unable to build new equipment and upgrade the remaining models of equipment
@StriX S So how many Armatas currently operational, and more importantly, wouldn't the money spent on that be better spent on your fridge given current economy? Just curious... I've always wondered why nations with a struggling economy seem to be spending so much on defence and so little on improving their economy. This has always baffled me, and I still don't understand...
@@johnny5wd567 Like the fact that how westerners build all those military bases around Russian border and sanction their economy then blame it all on Russia. Russia can't spend money on its own defense now? Lmao. Western sheeps are on another level. Also since when we consider the top 10 economies a "struggling economy"?
Learning what we have from the Ukraine war, where would you rank the T-90M now? I think it's safe to say that the Russians have either over exaggerated the improvements made to the T-90M, or the corruption within the Russian military redirected the funds away from the actual upgrades being made.
I missed the part: Working conditions and comfort of the crew.
@Nontach Nanthawuthipan no leo is worser, he didnt include it beacuse he is comparing main things, stop spreading BS
@Nontach Nanthawuthipan ? I am just saying, that T-90M is better in every way which is true
@@stilpa1 untrue. Crew comfort / ergonomics is actually the most important part. A tank without a crew is worthless.
Leopard and t90m are both good tanks. The countries that operate them have different needs for their tanks .
Nontach Nanthawuthipan So u wanna die in confort ? Or stay alive ? Who cares the confort ?? I was a tank driver in t-72 . There was no problem with the comfort . How many tank did you drove ? I miss only one part in this video , is that the shoting range . Becouse is that the most important thing .
I would give the leopard higher survivability just on the basis it has 4 crew instead of 3 and is bigger so if penetrated there is a higher chance someone will survive and might be able to recover the tank.
You also compared armour numbers from leopards tested decades ago to armour values unknown for the T90ms. Yet somehow T90ms has better? I'm pretty sure after 20 years leopards have more armour than the ones tested, hence why all recent numbers are classified.
Yes if hit from the side it could hit the ammo and explode, but what tank wouldn't? T90ms would also have a high chance of exploding with all that ammo in the centre.
You mentioned yourself in a previous video the Turkish using old A4s terribly is not a good indication of the tanks performance. Yet you used that footage to judge the A7.
Both are great tanks and are designed for their own militaries in different ways, leopard has gun depression and is a tall tank so it can defend high ground. T90ms is low and has less depression showing it's designed as a more aggressive breakthrough tank. After changing the survivability scores and armour scores leopard wins though, and in my opinion is a better designed tank.
Crew doesn't matter, tank gets hit and penetrated = all survivors bail out
Autistic Tanker All survivors bail out = bad crew
Stays in tank and move out of can = good crew
Having one more guy to potentially die seems like a downside for survivability to me. We are talking survivability of the crew not material after all, right?
@@wahngott4711 But if a tank with three crew gets penetrated there is a good chance there will be nobody left. With 4 crew spaced out a little more there is more chance one of them lives and can drive the tank to safety.
@@user-propositionjoe The additional crew member is the loader who is exactly behind the commander if I'm not mistaken so it's pretty unlikely that one gets incapacitated and the other one is fine.
Let's enjoy the comments
Smintina Vlad and then there’s the other side of it.
@Dex4Sure well, actually Leo2 has seen combat in Afghanistan with e.g. the Canadian armed forces and was very successful. In one situation a Leo2 drove unto a 15kg mine. Just the driver had minor insuries and the tank was combat ready again 2 weeks later. Now can you tell me where the T90 variant shown in this video was used exept russian propanganda films?
@Dex4Sure That doesn't make a tank better. These modern tanks haven't faced each other in the last decades, therefore it is almost impossible to judge which tank is "better".
@Dex4Sure I know leopard has seen a lot of combat, but I can't find any combat of the t 90.
Don't worry that much about t90 inferiority, it's not that you build it...!
Did you...!?
the comparison has many problems especially in the armor for both tanks also data for the breakthrough of the Russian aphsds round is a very inaccurate round has a maximum length of 660 mm which means it can not pass through 740 mm unless it is going at speeds of 2000 meters per second, regarding the Kevlar in Inside t 90 it's nothing new leopard has that since the a5 model
Your just. A leopard fan boy if the Russian round is not that good than so is the German one you too salty leopard lost
@@ghettsmetths8399 And you're an idiot who doesn't understand the subject. you have no idea what i'm talking about, and please tell me where i said leopard is better i'm just talking about mistake in the video that i know are incorrect
@@borisignjatovic4820 no your info is incorect
@@borisignjatovic4820 give source to see if its incorrect who is u to say if somting is incorrect
@@tonyjoka2346 TECHMASH WILL DEMONSTRATE NEW SHELLS AT ARMY-2019
Concern "Techmash" of Rostec State Corporation will present the latest tank rounds with armor-piercing sub-caliber projectiles of increased penetration at the International Military-Technical Forum "Army-2019".
The new 125 mm rounds - the Lead-2 round and the experimental Mango-M model - are designed for firing at armored targets such as tanks, including those with enhanced reactive armor, self-propelled artillery mounts and embrasures. Ammunition can be used for firing from smooth-bore tank guns D-81 (2A26, 2A46M).
“These are the latest types of ammunition, the armor penetration of which has been increased by more than 20%. If a regular shot penetrates 230 mm of an obstacle, then for "Mango-M" this figure is 280 mm, and for a shot "Lead-2" - 300 mm. The improved technical characteristics of ammunition ensure the defeat of almost the entire spectrum of armored weapons and military equipment of a potential enemy at a distance of more than 2 km, ”said industrial director of Rostec State Corporation Sergey Abramov.
The International Military-Technical Forum "Army-2019" will be held from 25 to 30 June 2019 at the Patriot Convention and Exhibition Center of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation in Kubinka, Moscow Region. More than 100 foreign delegations will take part in the event.
Mango-M is an export-oriented shot. One of its main advantages is full compatibility with the automatic loader of the T-72 and T-90 tanks, which does not require any structural changes. In our opinion, this can play a key role in the selection of this ammunition by our foreign partners, who are armed with modern Russian-made tanks, ”said Vladimir Lepin, General Director of the Tekhmash Concern.tecmash.ru/media/novosti/tekhmash-prodemonstriruet-novye-snaryady-na-armii-2019.htmlsun9-48.userapi.com/c858120/v858120596/193de9/kghYli_KMcQ.jpg
Can you do a video about the french leclerc?
Attemps n*6
And realy great video as always, a lot of information about tank, i think i love tanks just because of you and Matsimus!
It will be in the series
@@RedEffectChannel nice idea !! :-)
And for you the leclerc xlr don't have a 100point fcs ?
@@patriotic3123 Hey, dont ask me questions about the tank I still have to do video on, you will find out once I do the video ;)
@@RedEffectChannel okkkkkkk no problem....
I do not think that T-90M(S) has better protection and survivability than Leopard 2A7.
So i do. Also. The whole "they are busing the same armor type" as the Leopard 2a5? Wtf? Really? Howw the GERMANS BEEN HIDING UNDER A ROCK THE LAST 20 YEARS?
@@jesusf.2600 Not just that, but the T90 is relying on explosive reactive armour for much of it's protection, and ERA explodes outward when hit. After the tank has been hit in the turret for example, a few blocks of ERA will be gone and now it is vulnerable. Meanwhile the composite armour on the Leopard (while it can't keep taking hits close to necessary penetration value indefinitely), can continue absorbing the T-90MS's main gun for the duration of the fight, unless the T-90 can get close enough and successfully target the hull.
@@Cotswolds1913 yeah. Not only that but the Composit abd Spaced Armor on the "arrow-head" on the Leopard 2A6 abd beyond defends against even the ATFSDS ROUNDS. AFTER ITS ERA BLOCKS ATE GONE THE REGULAR ARMOR ON THE T-90 WON'T DO JACK SHIT AGAINST AN ATFSDS.
@@jesusf.2600 No, but there has been a lot of political pressure towards pacifism for decades precisely because of all the sentiments reflected by so many people under any UA-cam video where the word "Germany" is even mentioned. There have been serious cutbacks and anything military is deemed a necessary evil or frowned upon - however needed by the majority of the electorate.
Some choices, like the decision not to use depleted uranium like the Americans, were political choices as the public wouldn't accept the alternative.
That said, the emphasis is heavily on integrated defence in conjunction with other systems and vehicles for coordinated efforts with minimum staffing. I'd say German tank engineers have traditionally opted for mobility and decent targeting over armor and caliber because of lessons learned in the past and the tactis and strategies which have proven effective.
Something some other users of these tanks apparently still need to learn / master (e.g. Turkey).
@@johnny5wd567 still. A bit more extra armor on the side skurts abd on the front vhasis as well as an active APS WOULD BE GREAT
Interesting! I didn't know T-90M had blowout panels for the extra ammo.
Hey! Could you please post a link to the data from the armour tests of Swedish Leo 2.
T-90 crews love being blown up with Jack-in-the box explosions, so that increases survivability.
Except that the T-90 tanks have only suffered 12 losses out of the 500 tanks deployed in Ukraine
@@thephoenix756 Latest information is that there's been 50 losses, 34 T-90A (19 destroyed, 2 abandoned, 13 captured) 6 T-90S (4 destroyed, 1 abandoned, 1 captured) and 10 T-90M (7 destroyed, 1 abandoned, 2 captured). And that's just what's publicly available.
@@torgothegrey3567
Equipment being abandoned or captured is not an indictment on the platform and really should be presented separately.
I very much doubt those figures on the T-90M because the Ukrainians would plastered videos all over the net
@@thephoenix756 It's on Oryx, you can check the figures yourself and they include pictures and video.
You do some really good work. I hope UA-cam isn't screwing you around too badly.
Keep those videos coming! Thanks!
Subscribed
T 90 M is a good tank, I can confirm and is very pleasing to drive.
i love that tank... never been close to one but i still love it
Having both for your ground force would be great, imagine if those Tanks works together
Excellent video, but I have to disagree with regards to mobility:
1- Leo 2 has neutralstearing, which makes it much easier to maneuver the vehicle and also has a much higher rear gear than the T90, Leo can reach 30 km / h in reverse, while T90 only 5 km / h. That's a very big difference !! Even though T90 is considerably lighter, still so its mobility gets greatly hampered by these two factors and I think it should have lost more points for this
Yes, I am aware of that, but you also have to consider that there is 20t difference between the two, therefore T-90M has an advantage of being lighter, which makes it more suitable for muddy terrain, bridges and overall soft terrain, while Leopard 2 does have advantage when turning, it has a disadvantage in being 20t heavier, it was the hardest thing to rate for both tanks, that is why I made them equal in that regard.
@@RedEffectChannel Yes, The Leo 2, abrams, Challenger, for exemplo are useless in my country, Brasil, just because the heavy weight, brigdes and normal terrain don t can get a 70 tons vehicles. But a don t undestud because Russians do not improve T90 transmission
@@giuseppedomingues3088 T-90M did receive new automatic transmission (previously it was manual) named APP-172 which gives better acceleration together with the new engine.
@@RedEffectChannel Correct me if I'm wrong but weight alone does not dictate ground pressure. It also comes down to number of road wheels are effective surface area. Not saying it changes everything, but the Leopard 2 has more road wheels and surface contact area, nullifying some of the weight difference when it comes to muddy terrain. Also, I thought I heard somewhere that the Leopard 2 has a base armor upgrade in the mid-2000's. But fantastic video, Germany could use a DM-73 round, following the US's lead with M829A4.
@@jackvony5615 Jack Vony You are right, it's not only the weight, tracks and wheels play a major role in ground pressure, but 2A7 does have a higher ground pressure nevertheless.
Leopard 2A5 had different armor package fitted compared to 2A4, together with an arrowhead module, since then there has been no armor upgrade
Just out of curiosity, where did you find the diagrams that showed the armor ratings during the Swedish trials?
Brilliant series.Any chance you could do some more WW2 tank comparasions ? A lot of people are passionate about tanks in that time frame and would love to see these videos.
So speaking from the future… the NLAW and Javelins had different opinions about the T-90M ATGM protection lol
I mean, neither of those weapons hit the protected areas. Against ATGMs that aren't top attack, it's armor is very resilient, in fact, it probably is very resistant to all ATGMs in service if they strike the front.
Something I'd say would be worth looking at when conparing mobility would be the Turret Traverse, does the tank have Neutral Steering and what is ita reverse speed
Love The vids keep up the Good work !
Thanks :)
do we have to donate to ur patreon to get on ur discord server that u do own
you lost me on the protection scale... Russians have the tendency to overestimate their machines capabilities. It has never been tested you say, well ofc it hasn't, it wouldn't even withstand a hit from its own gun. Also T90's protection from the front cannot possibly be over 600 all over from kinetic rounds. The sides are much weaker as well, and gun depression is worse on the t90 aka it isnt very good on hilly terrain. I call total BS.
go away, cia shill
Dex4Sure you seem like a very smart person
Dex4Sure yikes
Russian tanks have been tested, by Americans and British, by this I mean kontakt-5 ERA was in the 90's and both american and British apfsds ammo that was used in Desert Storm against Iraqi's failed to penetrate T-72 or T-80 equipped with that ERA package at any distance. So Russian ERA is effective against apfsds. More modern western ammo does go trough K5, but relikt is more modern then K5, so who knows. By the way in the 90's the UK actually bought T-80u tanks for testing, you can find even the discussion in their parliament about the purchase lol. What he forgets to say is that ERA losses its effectiveness after being shot, so a shot in the same panel might get trough. That is the price for having a 20 t lighter tank. However I'm not sure how well does composite armor work if you start grouping shots close to each other against it, but definitely better then ERA. Overall I'd say Leo has better armor and gun depression, but exposed ammo in the hull is kinda very bad about it. Russians have that carousel however they've done a lot to make it more effectively protected so you're gonna have to score a direct hit on it, in Leo case almost any hull penetration will ignite the ammo.
@Dex4Sure thats leo2a4, 2a5 or a6 or this a7 wont get penned from front turret, besides I'm pretty sure those ones in Syria were penned from sides of turrets.
I still would prefer sitting in a Leopard
Great series.
justa small info I put here : for the cost of 1 leopard you can buy around 4 t90M, you should seriously put an IMPORTANT cost/efficiency point
Leopard tanks are now getting a “hard kill” system installed this year
Leopard 2a7 gets 70 points for survivability while T-90 gets 80? well that's cute! Dude, T-90M has 3 crews, Leopard has 4! guess I'm watching a russian channel.
The leopard has 1 more person to get killed. Anyway if that person survives he is going to flee. Anyway it doesn't make a difference
@@mikeoxsmal8022 well, the autoloader does
If the autoloader is hitted, bye bye tank
@@luismendes3307 The autoloader is inside the tank. So for a round to hit the autolaoder, it needs to penetzrate the armor first. And if the tank gets penetarted, the least thing to worry about is the autoloader, because the crew will be dead.
@@luismendes3307
With the sole exception of the M1a2 Abrams, every Western tank stores at least 2/3rds of their ammunition in the crew compartment without the protection of blast doors or blow-out panels
The Leopard 2 stores only 15 rounds behind blast doors; the rest of the rounds (27) are in the crew compartment, next to the driver.
The Challenger 2 stores none of its rounds behind blast doors
The Leclerc stores 22 rounds behind blast doors; and the rest are located in the crew compartment without the protection of blast doors or blow-out panels
The Merkava mk4 stores only 10 of its 48 rounds behind blast doors.
Great work 👏
Also, RedEffect i want to know your opinion on the BMPT both the vehicle itself and the actual concept behind it.
Now, the real life test shows, that the T90 gets 10 Points for Protection. 😂
No in real life test it shows you understand absolutely nothing about tanks and survivability other than some crap they tell you in your media to feel good about your team performance .
@@82boulou
T-90 goes airborne
@@johnhenry4844
With the sole exception of the M1a2 Abrams, every Western tank stores at least 2/3rds of their ammunition in the crew compartment without the protection of blast doors or blow-out panels
The Leopard 2 stores only 15 rounds behind blast doors; the rest of the rounds are in the crew compartment, next to the driver.
The Challenger 2 stores none of its rounds behind blast doors
The Leclerc stores 22 rounds behind blast doors; and the rest are located in the crew compartment without the protection of blast doors or blow-out panels
The Merkava mk4 stores only 10 of its 48 rounds behind blast doors.
and now the leopard 2 ded, shall I give it 9 points or sth?
Hi, nice videos as always.
A thought regarding rating.
Should a Firepower 100 has the same weight as a FCS of 100 at the total sum?
Having the superior firepower might do you no good if you can't hit first?
I know, its complex and this is a simplyfied way to compare.
Keep up the good work.
How can u give 85 points for mobility to a tank with reverse speed of 4km/h?
because the video was made 4 years ago.
OP, you've neglected the fact that ERA explodes outward when it's been hit, i.e. once it's gone it's gone and now you're exposed with greatly inferior base armour.
You still have advanced composite armor. ERA is efficient against HEAT and other chemical penetrators, but not so much against APFSDS.
meaty wheelchair The composite armor on T-90 has a lot less protection. ERA is effective against APFSDS, it’s just the blocks in any one area of the tank, can only be used once until someone replaces them
Sim Tard It’s more cost-effective to be sure, but in a real slugging match with a NATO armoured brigade, once those ERA blocks get detonated it’s SOL for the T-90 for the rest of the fight. Meanwhile a Leopard 2A7 can sustain multiple hits in the same region before degradation takes its toll.
Sim Tard It definitely can, and it’s hugely important. When we say “the same area”, it’s not like a small spot, it’s going to be a rather sizable portion of the front-facing turret.
ERA is really good for shoring up protection on the side and rear of the tank, but for frontal tank-on-tank engagements it’s definitely not ideal. It is lighter though, true enough.
Sim Tard ERA only lasts one time, composite armor lasts for multiple hits.
Next do the k2 vs the type 10
m8, K2 is just way better, it is not fair to compare those two -.-
@@mb_tesla idk the type 10 is also very advanced
@@OmarSlloum not as much as K2 that has L55 gun, hard kill APS, radar, etc. way more advanced tank in general. Type 10 is more like Type 90 on steroids ))))))
@@mb_tesla stop liking your own comments, and it would still be interesting to compare the two, most people don't know a lot about them.
@@OmarSlloum m8 I swear to God I don't like my own comments I am not some pathetic scrub xD if you don't trust me I can screenshot it as proof, don't know why it bothers you anyways and I don't know what would I gain from it either 😕
Anyway my point is that it would be more interesting to compare K2 to some more advanced tank like Armata, M1A2C, or something like that. Type 10 is just unfair comparison.
Didn't noticed that a youtuber has access to the top secret information about compound armor to set points in what you call "survability"... but was a funny video.
Theres no "top secret" in survivability. It's based on the interior layout of the tank's components, most importantly the ammo, and this factor is not at all top secret. In fact, both nations even advertise this.
@@cobalt2361 compound armors (materials, volume, formulas), are secret, aim systems (precision, reliability, speed, etc), are secret, detection systems (range, resolution, reliability, etc), are secret. The only way to estimate "points" is with deep intelligence information, or, statistics in real conflicts.
@@viking_II Yes, and he used estimation because that's all that's given at this moment. You gotta work with what you have. But to get to my main point, there's no "compund armors, aim systems, detection systems,etc" in *ammo layout* , you can easily find info on the internet about the ammo layout of both tanks.
@@cobalt2361 all is secret, there are very good estimations, but still secret, and also, the ammo hits what? hits the armor, and the armor is secret, you can't know if ammo can penetrate a secret formula. If we will use real combat data and intelligence, soviet armor is weak, and their ammo needs to be bigger to damage great western armors, therefore, survival is clearly in western side, not in eastern as this video suggests.
@@viking_II Wtf are you talking about dude? "Ammo hits what" I'm not talking about munitions that are hitting the tank, I'm talking about the ammunition already in the tank. And how are Russians munitions smaller than western if they have a larger propellant casing? Are we even on the same page here??
T 90 lacks rear mobility
Good video. Subscribed. 👍
Answer to this question is very simple. The leo would make ashes of the T-90-m
No. Both are very capable tanks. Yes the leo is better but training and tactics are also very important too
@@mustafaokuducu9353 true
i LOVE soviet-russian mbt but....
i think this video is slightly russian bias
Why?
@@Empriction Wow, and to talk about your engineering amp.businessinsider.com/the-most-embarrassing-russian-military-failures-2015-5
Yes
@@devpitcher5096 I'm not for Russian bias at all but you do realize that some of those "Failures" are not actually failures? for example, the T14 Armata did not break down during the parade that day it was more of an inexperienced crew issue and he had the breaking mechanism on which also explains why other vehicles couldn't tow the tank away, also another fake statement. it was not towed away. But yea Russian engineering is not the best at everything, they are most famous for their missile/rocket tech. German engineering is more famous for tanks (nowadays) and American engineering is more known for their naval and air tech.
@Seksiumutcocuk -_- dude lives in South America somewhere
leopard 2a7v has a first hit probability of 98% on its effective range... how high is the first hit probability of the t90m or how close does the t90m have to come to the leopardd2 before it has a similar hit probability?
Have the reverse on the t series been upgraded yet?
yes, the T-90M whit the knew engine is 10Km at least
So this video is saying the Leopard is 20 tons (45%) heavier than the T90 but it's more vulnerable anti tank fire. Soundslike German armour is very weak!!! This seems uncredible to me
A heavier tank doesnt always mean a better protected tank. The armor composition, angle, and configuration is affecting the armor effectiveness as well. Simple Example is RHA and Composite armor. Moreover, T-90s use ERA which provides more protection while adding less weight to the tank than the applique-like armor on leopard 2 which is absolutely heavier. Still, a multiple hit on the same spot to the T-90 would have a more penetration possibility since a single ERA block could only withstand a single hit while Leopard at the other hand could withstand multiple hits better than a t-90
lol...this video didn't age so well
why?
@@ytkomar1141 Imho: The war shows, that the whole design of the T-90 is flawed and outdated. The armor isn't providing as much protection, as dicribed in the vid. The russian army is suffering heavy loses due to the simple use of manpads. Ucrainians would rather use a Leopard 2 than this "updated" version of a T-72. This tells you enough of about its capabilities and its competitiveness, compared to the leopard.
@@sgthakunamatata15961. Ukraine doesn’t use any T-90
2. T-90 and T-90M are way different
3. Only 2-3 T-90M has been destroyed 1 by the The Russians to avoid it being captured and the rest by artillery ( any tank in that situation even western tanks would be destroyed )
4. Man pads are for aircraft not tanks
I hope you passed the math exam since then... ;)
Does ammo rack at the back of turret still use an automatic loading as the center ammorack or it just a manual loading with more safety alternative to automatic one at the center
The ammo in the back of the turret is just extra ammo that is supposed to be loaded into the carousel once it wastes already loaded ammo
@@RedEffectChannel thats sad I thought all time it had 2 autoloading ammo rack with same back turret loading like K2 or leclerc
That's totall bs
T-90 isn’t protected against the javelin system
And not even against Panzerfaust 3, which has been produced in 90s.
No modern tank is
This is T-90M
Big difference from regular T-90
@@sengwesetogile6054 t14 is with active soft and hard kill systems. active hard kill systems like the one israel is developing is the nxt lvl of tank protection
@@mbtenjoyer9487 they destroyed a T90M with a Carl Gustaf launcher from the 80's
Zaloga's book on the M1A1 will be available in 2019 on amazon, you going to be giving it a look? Just asking since you use him a a source often enough
@Pommy Pie M1A2 Abrams Main Battle Tank 1993-2018 (New Vanguard)

Can you compare the 72a and m60 a3?
I found some of your older videos about WW2 a bit sketchy, but I assumed it was due to lack of reliable info. Your recent vids are quite high quality and seem to check out in the legitimacy department. Pretty objective and well put together video, great stuff man.
Leo2A7 has a new fire surpressing system in tge case of survivability...
Awesome video. Great footage, fair comparison and very interesting facts. Love this series!
Leopard gets 50 points for protection.
T90 gets 100 points for protection, becouse its never proven and it's secret...So..,
54 points for leopard
100 points for the T90
Pretty good video, the only thing is that the Leo 2s armor is most definitely not the same as it was back in the swedish tank trials. That "armor kit' that the Leopard 2A5 had on it was just thrown on in order to mimic the protection and weight of what the tank would have in full production. The Leopard 2A6 made very large improvements to the armor on both the turret and the hull which was used on the first versions of the Leopard 2A7 before the add on kits were available. Current estimates from around the world are around 800mm against APFSDS rounds on the thickest part of the hull and up to 1000mm on the thickest part of the turret, but that is estimated as all numbers on the armor is classified and will be for decades most likely.
Superior german optics. Somethings never change
Very cool- I like
Are you mixing leopard 2a7v with 2a7?
Well, the conflict in Ukraine made this not age well. The many turrets of all the russian tanks that litter the landscape tell a very different story about crew survivability.
Looking at this now during the Ukraine war. You were so wrong
Wrong about what
Armor on T90-M by this video can resist ATGMs... sure, as we have seen flying turrets even on this tank in UA :)
The armor is fine but has one big flaw. It is more expensive than sandbags and therefore not worth buying if you can invest that money in nice cars for Generals.
What we learned in WW2. German made tiger which is the leopards grandfather could knock multiple T-34’s which is T-90’s grandfather. So I would put my money on German tanks. If they didn’t lose their balls for making good tanks still
75+100+75+70+85 = 408? well, I knew. don't take it the wrong way I love your videos.
that was a typo, I do say 78 points if you listened to what I was saying, and during the video it is displayed as 78 points for protection.
@@RedEffectChannel why didn't You mention an upgrade for Leopard 2 that gives it ability to fire LAHAT AGTM?
UPD: ok, just saw Your answer in a comment below.
Does the T90M have vaccum-1 rounds?
If possibile you should add depth water immersion capabilities. This feature could be useful in a tank.
I like the T-90. Looks like a solid tank.
Thanks
The Leopard 2a7 has spall liners and composite armor was upgraded to previous models.
But more important the T90 isn`t build modular like western tanks, when for example the engine breaks the hole tank is usless or you need 3 days in a factory to change the engine that is why so many T90 just laying down in the ukraine and get stolen by farmers.
But on the other hand the T90 is cheaper and you should be taler than 1.60 or it gets extremly uncomfortable.
This man giving tanks a Doug score
Please more of Tank Arena.
Hi there, nice video, subbed right away after seeing it. Just one thing comes to my mind, About mobilityT-90M still can not neutral steer, and correct me if I am wrong, reverse speed is very slow, that would be worse than Leos mobility then. But anyway, nice comparison video, Im looking forward to see more.
I think that a item for crew effectiveness is missing. The stats of the tanks are important, but the crew "confort" and space in the interior means a lot about how effective the tank will perform. A better tank crewed with people that can barely move will lose some of the effectiveness against a tank maybe a little worst, but with a crew that can actually work well
The British tanks would be unstoppable
You're forgetting that the Leopard 2 turret needs space for a loader; the interior of the T-90M Proryv-3 is actually spacious
not to be rude here but I'm curious on *how you rate tthat firepower score* for both tank. i noticed that you gave 80 points for the T-72B3M on your previous *chinese Type-96B vs T-72B3M* video, and in this video you gave the same 80 points for the T-90M. According to your previos video the *T-72B3M has around 700mm penetration at 90 degree* and around 370mm at 60 degree. While the *T-90M has 740mm penetration at 90 degree* and theoretically has much advanced gun over the T-72B3M). Meanwhile for the 2A7, which has 760mm penetration rate at 90 degree only got 75 points? I get it, it hasn't the capability of firing ATGM like the T-90, but how come it has lower score than the T-72B3M? Secondly, how come the T-90M has the same score eventhough it has greater penetration rate also much advanced gun compared to the T-72B3M?
What country are you from
RedEffect, I always wondered about how Russian tankers deal with a misfire (round not firing) with their autoloaders, the western tanks have a procedure where they try to fire the round 6 more times using auxiliary systems before putting the "bad bullet" back inside the ammo pack... I tried to investigate what procedures the Russians have to deal with those problems, but I can't find anything about it
They still try to fire the round. If unable, the autoloader can extract the round and the crewmember in the turret can manually remove it and throw it out a hatch, or the autoloader can restore it in an empty spot.
Glorious soviet technology and autoloader that is made fully of stalinum doesnt fail like western capitalist ones comrade
*Love this formula*
You know its an OG redeffect video when you hear him say "ear-e-yay"
What about the Afghanit APS on the T-90M? shouldn't that also increase the Protection score a bit?
The T-90M doesn't have Afghanit APS.
Leopard 2a7 is by the way the Best tank on the World 2017 and 2018
A random guy on youtube says it, so it must be true.
@@Vlad_-_-_ These are the facts my puplic hero
@@malakelidewaterkantupnsiel7337 Please provide some evidence if you are so sure of these "facts".
@@Vlad_-_-_ maybe 😂
@@malakelidewaterkantupnsiel7337 So yours is just more "hurr durr russian bad, NATO good" nonesense that everybody keeps parroting around.Not surprising.After reading the same shit countless times I already can easily recognise.