My Take on the IDubbbzTV and Charlie Drama
Вставка
- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- OPEN ME (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧
➥ WATCH ME LIVE: / stanz
FOLLOW MY SOCIALS (¬‿¬ )
➥ Twitter: / nathanstanz
➥ Instagram: / nathanstanz
➥ Twitch: / stanz
➥ Discord: / discord
➥ Podcast: / thestanzshow
➥ Gaming: / stanzbutgaming
➥ Clips: / stanzclips
Edited By (ﾉ´ヮ`)ﾉ*: ･ﾟ
🢂 Nathan | / nateplaysbad
#stanz #idubbbz #drama
at this point im conviced stanz has never been on the internet before
And that's why he's so based
He’s like the cool dad who fits in but really hasn’t been around
just wait till stanz discovers who pewdiepie is
We should all be like stanz tha 🐐
he actually reads the books on the background lmao
“I thought idubbbz was leafy” is such an unintended insult.
Definitely. Leafy went the other way to iDubbz, which is why he’s banned everywhere. Last I heard of him, he did a video laughing at someone having a full-blown major depressive episode. iDubbz has matured.
@@camhusmj38 Leafy has reappeared in the Tiktok age under a new guise, IDK his new name but when you hear the videos you know its him
@@mrkillman555 How disappointing. But to be expected. You can’t make that much on TikTok so that’s nice at least.
charlie likely thinks this is negligible 'edgy' content and not largely harmful because of the people he was associating with at the time.
i stopped supporting the official podcast (charlie's podcast) in 2017 because one of his staple co-hosts. kaya was constantly, unironically, taking 15-20 minutes to go through incel, right-wing talking points. it made it impossible to listen to even as a fan of all the other co-hosts. kaya also told trans people in the discord that if they weren't ok being called a trap, then they should leave.
as far as i'm aware kaya is still on the podcast, never apologised, and also being an elon musk dickrider. charlie probably doesn't want to face that if idubbbz has to take responsibility for his audience, he has to take responsibility for his shitty friend
This
THANK YOU! I used to love the official podcast but every time kaya spoke it was just horrendous. I couldn't stand it any more, that sort of opened my eyes a bit to Charlie's potential stances, he never seemed to have much of a problem with most of the deplorable rhetoric kaya espoused
@@_laurenolo_ charlie will spend ages stunting on nobodies like sneako and mukitty who are clearly farming him but not call out when his podcast co-host is bullying trans people in his discord... at best, he doesn't have peripheral vision and at worst, he's just OK with all of that shit
@buhains it was all downhill from there. after a litany of bad takes and his clearly evident lackadaisical stance on racism via the IDubbz drama, I just ended up unsubscribing from Charlie all together 🥲
I think the dude also doesn't want to accept that he may have been a POS as a teenager which is such a weird stance to take.
I was one of the kids who watched idubbz when I was 15-16, and I would say that his whole attitude when it came to slurs definitely affected me for a few years. Never enough that I was screaming them from the rooftops, but enough where I clearly remember thinking 'dude why are people getting offended over that? It's just a word, get over it.'
When you're someone who doesn't know any better and someone you really like is essentially saying 'yeah it's not so bad to say these things' it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that people can be influenced by that kind of thing and start, for example, saying slurs
I was 11 when idubbz content cops were coming out, I too remember feeling the n word become normalized to the point were I was saying it, I was also a big leafy fan and when idubbz did his content cop on him I stopped watching leafy entirely. To say that idubbz didn’t have an effect of his young viewers is very naive.
This view seems overly simplistic. Like, his most famous slur is the NF word, and the whole point (at least to me) was to use a slur in an explicitly non-hateful way (the word itself is so absurd that it's clear there is no actual malice or hate behind it) to challenge the idea that these words are bad in and of themselves. This seems like a point a teenager can incorporate into their own views without becoming a weirdo that spams the n word in twitch chat. You watched that shit and turned out fine, so did I, we both have probably never called anyone the nword. Maybe it's not a big deal after all, and people can handle stuff like that.
Love when people can admit past mistakes/regrets and grow as a person. It's really admirable💜
@@jackmanchester6416 Nah, leafy stopped making videos after his content cop.
can personally say not only me even, almost the entirety of my middle school was heavily influenced by idubbbz, frank, and ESPECIALLY leafy. leafy, im pretty sure, made the bullies at my school think it was cool and funny.
A phrase I was taught that this reminds me of is "Public action demands public apology." iDubbbz's videos reached a lot of people, so it's important and appropriate that he also shares his apology on the platform
Ooo I love that. I'm bookmarking that one in my mind.
That kind of content definitely had a huge effect on folks, it would be disingenuous to say otherwise. There are a whole lot of people who thought it was okay to say slurs and do other reprehensible shit because it was so normalized online. So many people were influenced in such a harmful way and its effects are still going on to this day.
Did slurs not exist before 2016? I think it's more disingenuous to act like slurs being normalized happened in 2016.
My issue is Idubbz content didn't promote Slurs, it promoted common sense and accountability of people.
The Tana Mongeau situation wasn't wrong, that's why the internet agree on his take at the time.
It's all okay or none is okay, is taken out of context and misused by people. Man isn't saying it's okay to say slurs. Man saying don't be a hypocrite.
And despite using slurs to prove his point. He never once use them in a racist way or even to attack or mock. Man made light of them to devalue them.
Thank you so much Stanz. I’m glad Idubz apologize and openly took his own accountability. But it was really disheartening to hear as a woman of color that 2016 edginess was downplayed. It sucked a lot being on the internet with a lot of brain rotted people increasing their slur usage and feeling validated. That was my only real issue with Charlie’s video. That it lacked the understanding of the actual affect it had beyond just the people he targeted but how it affected the black community. Which is fair because having that perspective would be difficult to attain as a white guy. ❤ anyways thanks for sharing your opinion and being the king you are.
never expected to find you here lol, love the vids and your...consciousness... here if that is the right word...
Conscientiousness...that was the word I was trying to type
HI ALICIA. Love your videos too and yeah I now officially love stanz content. I usually love Charlie but the way he downplays a lot of the shit in idubzz content straight up sucks
not only the black community, but he also used homophobic slurs, etc. as well and affected many marginalised groups - like how he talked about in the video where a trans person was scared to meet him and was worried he'd hate his own fan for being trans
the way charlie downplayed this marginalisation, othering and hate is so frustrating - it's not 'cringe' or 'edgy', it's genuinely harmful and traumatising to so many
21:29
I’ve watched a few stanz vids before but holy shit thank you. This video cemented you as one of my new favourites. The way so many people have commented on this apology has been incredibly discouraging and it’s nice seeing somebody who understands why it’s important
Very funny that Charlie's second video's entire thesis is "you didn't understand the intentions of my video" when he literally didn't understand the intentions of Idubbbz's video.
Yeah... Charlie creates too much content to actually be grounded in understanding things outside that context
charlie in 2016 ish he flirted with some of that edgy stuff on his podcast so that might be why he has this take. i remember listing to it in highschool and one part was " all male feminsts are rapists" his stuff was very smaller scale and he's definitely changed his views but ya know
funny to think that Charlie could have just taken this opportunity to also address that smaller scale stuff. maybe it would have led to a chain reaction of other content creators critically reflecting on their past actions. but alas, we're in the worst timeline and charlie decided to just completely neglect that saying that kind of stuff (especially as a literal influencer) is harmful.
@@RealGermanish I mean that's pretty standard from him, no? I remember him talking with DarkViper about how reaction content is bad, realising it's bad and telling DarkViper he'd stop making any because he understood the harm it causes to smaller creators. Then like a week later just going back to stealing people's videos for stream lol
I think the thing that sucks about this whole situation is that charlie keeps calling this edgy content cringe, but refuses to recognize it as harmful. It's not bad because it was cringe, it's cringe BECAUSE it was bad. This shit was incredibly harmful.
How was it harmful? To who?
@@incription I feel like I shouldn’t have to explain why saying slurs is harmful to minority groups and encouraging people to say slurs is even more harmful to minority groups.
@@incription normalising white teenage boys saying slurs. in fact, my 11 year old friends in primary school were idubbz fans and constantly repeated n---erf-ggot. if this isn't bad influence then what is
@@incription it encouraged people to say slurs all the time and im sure some of those people moved to the alt right because of it, but even if they didn't they went around screaming slurs at minority groups, racist bullying stuff like that.
@@incription Its harmful cause some dumb kids will think its cool to immitate him. Personally idt its that bad, cause I used to enjoy watching those videos, but I wasn't dumb enough to think what he did was ok. And none of my friends at the time did either. To me its the same kinda enjoyment that you'd get from watching a heel in WWE, but its actually real, which I guess adds to the harmful aspect of it. Obviously i wont enjoy that kinda content rn, but I think every teen has that edgy phase, and idubbz capitalized on it. And imo looking back on it, I just think its a product of its time, where things were more lenient. The problem is that it enables racists, but doesn't turn people to racists, though I may be biased as none of my friends who enjoyed him then didn't end up that way. But the fact that he enabled those kinda people, imo doesn't necessarily make it entirely his fault. I get why he'd apologize, but idt he's the menace that he makes himself out to be, though people are usually more critcal of themselves than to others.
The way Charlie talked about this is so alien and incomprehensible to me. This is one of those occasions where it feels like a content creator is just completely oblivious to how the real world is. Idubbz was considered edgy because in 2016 IT WASN'T NORMAL TO SAY THE N-WORD idubbz said it maybe a few other people were saying it but during that edgy period most youtubers still wouldn't say the n-word
I was in middle school when iDubbz was popular, and oh my god the amount of people throwing slurs at me like it was nothing calling it "just a word" and mocking me for being upset or crying about it was insane. MIDDLE SCHOOL BTW. These kids were like 11 and definitely heavily influenced by him.
That's so weird to me, me and my friends watched him a lot as well but never used that kind of language or behaviour in real life
Dude, I’m so sorry you had to live through that crap. My cousins used to say the n word all the time, never really knew where he got it from, but maybe it was from this guy. I hope your doing better now
@@flarebear5346 It kind of depends on whether someone recognises that he's playing a role and didn't ever believe any of the shit he said, he was just very socially nihilistic with how he saw responsibility online and was willing to play the character for the comedy/underlying message (depending on teh video). If someone doesn't intellectually recognise that, they're going to take his old stuff way more at face value and it'll be a really strongly negative rolemodel for them. If people understand that, they can just take the content for what it is and move on without really being socially impacted by it. Naturally with a younger audience I'd imagine most tended towards the former, though.
Kind of like those people who watch Fight Club for its anti-establishment "fuck society!" Tyler Durden message. They're being impacted by it in a way contrary to the intent of the movie because they don't get it. It just so happens that with Ian's old content it was generally a lot more overtly negative an outcome than people thinking making soap out of fat people is badass, or something.
What the f*ck are you talking about? Do you really believe idubbbz was as big as you make him out to be? No, he wasn’t. Do you wanna know what idubbbz was famous for back then? It was the “I’m gay” meme and the “I have crippling depression” meme. Thats it. You wanna know what kids were watching back then? Markiplier, Pewdiepie, Jacksepticeye, Vanossgaming, H20 Delirious, Smosh, and dank meme compilations. Filthy Frank too wasn’t as big as you thought he was. He was only famous because he was a meme, like idubbbz. No, neither of those guys were influencing young boys to do anything because nobody was dumb enough to think saying the n word was okay. It was so engraved in our minds how taboo it was to say that word it was like a boogeyman of some sort.
You’re straight up lying to everyone when you say that he was very influential back then, because he absolutely was not.
is that his problem? or parents that allowed their own kids to go to youtube instead youtube kids?
I’m sure it does help Charlie sleep at night to have the mindset that one’s content that reaches millions of people can’t really do that much damage or have that much influence considering some of his own.
Excellent point. Makes life a lot easier to think you can say things with impunity.
Yeah, the idea that the creator doesn't have an effect on audience perception and opinions is crazy. I am sitting here watching this video as a 22 year old adult and forming my opinion on the situation based on the points Stanz is making. I would probably have had a much different take if I chose to watch Charlie or any other creator's opinion on the situation. So if I, a 22 year old adult, can have my opinion on a situation molded by a creator, than of course the kids watching Idubz at the time could have their idea of right/wrong, acceptable/unacceptable, and just overall world view influenced by content.
I think what you need to take away from this discovery of yours is that you should take in points from all sides, then think about it yourself and come to your own conclusions. this type of thinking and ability to not be swayed by specific things is not something you passively learn in your life. everyone can be swayed at any age. it comes down to the individual content consumer to be mentally strong enough to understand topics. what Im saying is that people of all ages can be swayed by all types of things. so this whole argument of "child audiences are the only ones that are impressionable" is just silly to me.
@@kregman6928 I agree. That is kind of what I was getting at. If adults can have their impressions molded by media, than children who are naturally more impressionable can too. It's easy at any age to side with a person just because it is the content you consume. This happens all the time with media politics. People listen to so much one-sided media that they develop opinions that belong only to that side and abandon the nuance of a lot of situations. For a situation like this, however, I don't find it necessary to look for much nuance of opinion by watching several creators talk about it because it just isn't that important to me, so I end up just siding with Stanz because his points make sense to me at the moment.
First time I’ve ever disagreed with Charlie, feels like I found out Jesus was selling weed to kids
He has been for years
I started watching Charlie a few months ago, and this is also the first time I've disagreed with him to this extent.
I feel like I'd be less upset about Jesus selling weed to kids 🤣 but yeah, fully agreed.
Upset he was so based? It's understandable
@@Bender1grow up
Even with Charlies second video, its extremely jarring so see someone like Charlie look at someone going through a massive amount of personal growth who is expressing his regrets of the person he used to be while saying how he wants to be a better person in the future, all completely unprompted by external pressure, And basically all of Charlies takes are just "nah you're wrong"
Exactly! Charlie is so blinded by his ego
i didn't even know he made a 2nd one. i commented on the 1st on how the use of the n-word wasn't 'entertainment' or harmless
@@callummcneill6266 what does ego have to do with this-
@@callummcneill6266 so much irony in your comment it straighten up my shirt
@@redbruhcolli 🫣
As a therapist in training, I will say that from what idubbz said, it sounds like he has attended therapy. The level of insight he has on his actions and their affects is definitely something that can be discussed in therapy.
he probably has been going to therapy for quite a while to reach that level of self reflection and feeling secure to take responsabilities for his actions, bet he has been thinking about this video for a while trying to figure what is best to do. But maybe I'm wrong, I don't know the guy lol
Consider a change in career
@@Darkagedd ???
This is what being a man and owning up to your mistakes is. If you think you’re too good for that and try to justify it you’re a coward.
Charlie really went full Florida man here. Sounds like someone who has never once listened to what minorities all over the world experience. He’s an alright dude who means well but seems very under informed on these topics and their impact and willfully minimized it repeatedly. Not chill
minorities whining about shit really starts getting on my nerves these days
@@accountnew7030 sounds like a you problem. Building a world that works for as many people as possible is good
@@elishaisrael whatever, I just wanted to share my view. either way I'll just focus on my shit instead of arguing with stupidity
The dude is the most close-minded, jaded and full on conceited people on the internet. Imo it's been clear as day since I first started watching his content. I wouldn't be surprised if he's genuinely convinced that his "forced deep monotone voice" just makes him the absolute coolest mf to ever exist lmao. We could even disregard his height self-esteem, and point more towards how he's hardly the same person in a legitimate open forum, specifically a public one. A jumble of lowbar trashy and crudely exaggerated assessments is all that comes from that dude. Anyways back to the shadows I shall roam, hopefully people start to pick up on the people they watch, and who they actually are at their core. Peaked in middle school energy bellows from that which never changes.
@@accountnew7030 Why does it get on your nerves? Because they're complaining about stuff that you do? Maybe this is more about you than about them. Also if you think you can't go a day without hearing someone "whine", please just try to delete social media and go outside. Almost all the problems you think dominate the world are minimal when you leave a place that thrives on outrage
Charlie's take that content and real life are entirely separate spheres and that you aren't influenced in a big way by the content you watch is weird.
Like, I watch northernlion and now I talk like him all the time, and those kids back in 2016 watched idubbbz and they started saying the n-word.
Do you do that thing where you reference old movies and TV shows and whatever and have to preface them with their date, genre and status like NL does? "Like the 1997 cult classic horror thriller [X]!" I've been doing that for ages and only recently realised it's because of NL
@@mooncalf_4534 I honestly would if I had the movie knowledge to back that up, it started for me when I'd repeat things like the loooong way, and now it's like when i win a game i say "I'm crazy" or "I'm insane" exactly how nl says it
i also adopt his cadence sometimes when im saying things without noticing
A fellow NL viewer, Hail to egg !!!
But I agree, I've started watching NL and now I am starting to develop his way of saying movies, I unironically said "Oh, like the 2012 Action and top in box office film, Avatar" for example
Charlie not seeing the harm in normalizing and promoting hateful speech in content is pretty disappointing.
he never said that, just that Idubbz isn't actually a bad person like he portrays himself to be in his original video
@@menburst579 the way he tries to say that Ian is "not bad" is using alot of the "its just edgy content, it was 2016" argument, which he intends to use as saying that he was a part of a bigger thing and not a bad person overall, but, as stanz said, he is not looking at the actual harmful shit he did, on camera, and is minimizing when saying that it was just part of the times. Dude said slurs alot of the time, told his fans that he is doing it so they become normalised and hold less power as words, and harassed people for content (tho sometime the ppl he did that to were bad and we felt vindicated), which signals to his audience, especially the young ones, that its an okay thing to do. He may not "be a bad person", but he was definetly being bad online, and inspiring others to do the same, and I think it was important to apologize for that, and especially doing that for himself to show that he is not that person bad, that he probably wasnt personally but he definetly gave that vibe with his internet persona
The scooby doo mask analogy of edgy humor is absolutely on point.
I was in high school when idubbbz was growing to his peak of relevance, the impact that he had on a lot of the people who watched him was the normalization of slurs and subsequently the normalization of casual racism from using those slurs. That may not have been idubbbz' intent to begin with but due to the nature of the slurs and the meaning behind them, using them casually created an atmosphere where people of color had to deal with even more casual racism on regular basis, and with idubbbz being so unapologetic in his usage, his fans who copied him were just as unapologetic. It wasn't just edgy humor, it was the underlying bigotry that surrounded the words.
I think Ian trying to take accountability for not just his actions but the impact that his actions had is a respectable thing to do, and reflecting on who you used to be and the words you used to say and subsequently admonishing yourself if you feel it is necessary for you to grow is something that should be praised, in my opinion. If he wants to change who he is and the audience he has then addressing the audience that he fostered during those times is probably the best thing he can do to change said audience. Sure you can change your content over time to try and move away from it, but as Stanz mentioned, this isn't moving from pokemon content to digimon content, this is moving from casual slur usage and content that created a pretty toxic environment, especially against the people he went after. His old audience will probably still be sticking around unless he properly addresses it, which is probably why he apologized to begin with. Again as Stanz pointed out, he could've never addressed this and it probably wouldn't have been an issue for Ian but the fact that he went out of his way to apologize, I assume he felt it was necessary for himself to do so.
And in regards to Charlie's take, categorizing usage of the n-word as just "edgy" and saying "oh it was 2016, that was just the internet back then and thats what edgy humor was!" is ridiculous because no it wasn't, not many people in the online content space used slurs so callously and subsequently painting it with the brush of just being "edgy" muddies the waters and downplays it significantly. And if that WAS just what edgy content was, then that's another issue entirely, because then it's just thinly veiled racism disguised as "edgy humor", which shouldn't be acceptable regardless.
To end this lengthy rant, I appreciate the take from someone who never watched idubbbz and the levelheadedness you had when discussing this topic, it's a very interesting topic for sure and I like hearing your point of view.
Cheers Stanz.
TLDR: normalization of slurs bad, taking accountability good, watch Stanz' video.
I think I kinda get where Charlie is coming from though, when content cop was popular noone in my school used those slurs. Several of my friends did enjoy those videos, but we knew that it wasnt right, we simply enjoyed it as he was an edgy rulebreaker, and we were in our edgy phase. Though reading your comment and others made me realize that my experience was an anomaly, and presumable Charlie also experienced the same where his adult group of friends didn't normalize the n-word. Idt Charlie was down playing the videos, simply that from his experience, it wasn't that bad.
@@cap-ml7kyIt does feel pretty weird when Charlie leaves out one of the most powerful segments in the video, the one about the trans fan. That one hit me like a truck and if you have someone say something like that yo you and you don’t self reflect I think you may be a lost cause. It just feels like Charlie thinks that he was the one the apology was aimed at when he very clearly is neither a racial minority nor LGBTQ. It’s not his apology to accept and he clearly does not understand how the people of those groups were affected by Ians videos
@@cap-ml7ky Well, yeah, his experience wasn't that bad. He isn't who iDubbz was apologizing to. He's a straight white man who owns guns.
I aint readin all that. Sorry that happened, or congrats
@BirthdayGiraffe why did you bother replying if you weren't going to add anything to the comment. Please, help me understand, what's the point of looking at comments and replying when you struggle to even read two paragraphs? If you combine all of the comments you read in a day it probably adds up to be way larger than 2 paragraphs, so size really doesn't matter.
This! All of this! I appreciate you making this video! I normally agree with Charlie’s takes and I did not at all about this!
It has exposed how little Charlie knows about what he talks about
@@callummcneill6266 I was really hoping his second video was going to go better but he definitely kept downplaying what he said 🥴
@@callummcneill6266 it's just weird cause this is the first time he's had a take that seems so blind, it's always felt like he actually had a grasp on the real world
@@sofiapatrao2796 he was like “no, you guys are wrong”
"2016 was an edgier time" is such an awful take not only because it wasn't that long ago, but because that mindset is what gave us Trump who normalized so much bigotry for a large part of this country. Being edgy became an excuse to be openly hateful. It really always was though.
unironically brought politics into youtube drama lmfao
@@vinniemumma7508bro idubbbz apolgoised for being racist. Racism is inherantly political.
@@tyrannicalthesaurus4672 it's not inherently political, it's politicized
no form of hate should ever be political, it just unfortunately is
I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Idubbbz's (as well as the other creators in the sphere at the time) content was a big factor in me being racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic in my early 20s. I've worked really hard to fix this about myself (and learned A LOT about my own identity/sexuality for the better in the process), and I hope Charlie truly recognizes the issue there. It wasn't just "satire", it was harmful and bad. I'm glad you seem to be such a genuinely good person Stanz.
Same here in a way! I was going through some MASSIVE internalized homophobia at the time/questioning my gender a bit, so I took a lot of those complicated emotions and just lumped them against minority groups/'SJWs' (hate that term now). Watching youtubers like Idubbbz and some of the people around him definitely didn't help any of that and, for a while, only cemented some of my opinions more- not pretty and I'm glad we both realized that we were way in the wrong
I think Charlie tried to say that idubbz wasn't a horrible person for what he did back then, but he completely ignored that he left a negative impact on his audience
"Content" and other forms of entertainment can and have been used to literally propagandize entire populations in favour of genocidal maniacs, how is it so hard for Charlie to understand that content can just be harmful in general if it has a malicious slant? Saw someone in chat say "Charlie is too content pilled" and I think they hit the nail on the head.
I wish I had a mind as clear and wholesome as stanz, his social skills and awareness of topics that he is just barely learning about is something everyone should strive for
Charlie too caught up playing devils advocate when the devil is screaming "I'm guilty!"
Charlie’s whole argument reeked of - “the slurs didn’t bother me that much” - well, yeah, Charlie you’re a straight white cishet neurotypical man - none of them were directed at you, nor are you routinely the subject of slurs in general. It’s a failure of empathy. You just have to think how the people whom it did hurt felt and how iDubbz’s popularity legitimised that kind of behaviour.
Did you seriously just say 'straight white cishet neurotypical male' actual clown 🤡
As a trans person I’ve been so nervous on everyone’s takes so I want to thank you so much for being a dude that just gets it! It’s so refreshing and a break from the constant stress haha, I don’t hate idubbz or Charlie ofc but the way Charlie talked about this hurt me and I’m glad you addressed this genuinely and kindly ❤
yea it sucks that charlie thinks it can't be hurtful, especially after so many w takes from him in the past
Charlie seems so socially detached. He continually reduces Ian's affect to "cringe". I dont know how to convince a grown ass man that normalizing the casual use of slurs to a whole generation of kids, and equipping them with the stringent talking points to defend that use, is infact damaging and dangerous.
I think some of Charlie's difficulty/reluctance to see that content can be harmful simply has to do with the fact that he is a white, straight, cis-man. At the peak of "2016 edginess humor," that was all it was for him (and still is). He, and many others, had the privilege to separate himself from it because it did not affect him personally. Even though that type of content was thought to be "acceptable" online, regular people offline wouldn't have agreed. It was shock humor BECAUSE it wasn't normal to say slurs, but that type of content normalized it online. People like Charlie could just log off and experience a normalish world. That wasn't the case if you're a minority, especially if you were young. Middle school being hellish is a pretty universal experience on it's own. Now imagine middle school when bigotted content was normal and almost idolized
isnt stanz and idubbbz also white straight cis-men or am i mistaken
@@ryanrichardson5844 I'm also uncertain on their identities, but the fact of the matter is both of them are disavowing that kind of behavior shows that they have realized exactly how damaging that kind of rhetoric really is to others outside the white-straight-cis-male identities, while Charlie is turning a blind eye to the effects of that behavior
@@ryanrichardson5844You don’t need to be a minority to understand the harm that slurs etc can have on them - as Stanz and iDubbz demonstrate. What is disappointing is that Charlie has failed to demonstrate any empathy or understanding.
No, it has nothing to do with him being straight, white or cis. Any sane person can recognise that what idubbz did back then is fuckedup. Sure, at the time most people loved it, but now, no shot you don’t recognise it was absolutely bad. Like, if even white, straight, cis male twitch chat understands it’s fucked and cooked, anyone can. And I love watching Charlie, but this is just too braindead
i think another factor might be that he was already an adult in 2016, so he can't fully comprehend how much influence iddubz (and the edgelords he inspired) had on teenagers. that being said, i'm the same age as him and i for one vividly remember how toxic his community was and how much he contributed to the normalization of the "it's just a joke bro lighten up bro it's just ironic bro" brand of 4chan bigotry.
This is only the second video I have watched of Stanz. I was curious... this has proven to me how the absolute stereo youtuber acts or agrees with this.
I have not only a lack of respect for Stanz, but its now in the negative. Dude is the epitome of Vanilla UA-camr that exists off the success of his friends.
Has no idea what he is saying. He is strictly trying to be as PC as possible to play to the widest net of people who COULD watch him.
Idubbz did not feel bad, homie needs views and he faces flak after creator clash. Dude has a huge flux of viewers and now he has to back peddle. Getting sleepy over all of this.
LMAOOOOO
@@stanz Why did you reply to this? Lol
i agree in the sense that this video doesn't need to exist, why admit you don't know anything about the subject, even when you went to their event (although i can recognise he went for some other YTer, but you have to know at least a little about him) and expect people to listen to your opinion lol
all these people saying “meh it was a different time in 2016, that was fine to say back then” is so wild to me. it was fine to do in your edgy corner of the internet, not to the general public, and if you still think it’s fine and normal, you’re probably still in those same spaces, they’re just slightly less bigoted in the last couple years due to rising popularity and public eyes. twitch watchers aren’t a great sample of the public
Speaking of people who do set a good example, Ludwig really does set the standard right now of internet people doing everything right in terms of taking responsibility and treading carefully with his words/deeds. I'm a lil older than y'all and I think he is SUCH a good role model for younger men.
Charlie missed the mark here
I do agree with stanz' point that 2016 was not that long ago. I was on the internet in 2016 and "edgy humour" like idubbz was already being condemned by a large portion of the internet.
Why would Charlie make that video lmaoo? Not your circus not your monkeys
When charlie said that idddubz was not the “genesis of edgyness”, he couldnt be further off. He is who you think of when you imagine an edgy incel fanbase
Eh I respect the change and the apology, but I don’t like him still. He was a fully grown adult saying the stuff he was saying catering to the audience that he created. He knew better.
Personal growth is a thing my dude, you gotta respect it
@@charliebohanna4485 I mean if you read what I said I literally said I respect it, but I don’t like him. I don’t have to like the guy
@@charliebohanna4485 it's good that he apologized, and it's good that he grew up and changed for the better. but even so, nobody's obligated to forgive him.
It’s fair to not like someone for their past actions, however it’s also important to separate that from the person they are now. Like I can say “eh I don’t really like that dude bc I’ve had bad encounters in the past”, but I can’t say “fuck that dude and all the shit he is doing to this day good or bad because of my experiences”.
Very valid my friend
I think most of Idubbbz's content still holds up in terms of the concept and critiques. His videos on keemstar, ricegum and leafy are on point. Hes not even that edgy in them, hes pretty consistently on point in terms of their actions. Its the Tana Mongeau video that goes too far, because of his defense of slurs. Even half of that video was on point, criticizing tana's actions, but the other half was problematic. He didnt make fun of ricegum's race or ethnicity, he criticised his toxicity, he didnt criticize keemstar by calling him slurs, he pointed our wat an opportunistic leech keemstar is, and honestly the leafy video pointing out his horribleness was very cathartic after seeing years of leafy get away with being one of the worst people in the world. He didnt chuck slurs at him, he just pointed out how toxic he is. I think idubbbz was necessary for his time, otherwise these people would have never stopped, however the tana video could have been avoided. I still see that his overall content wont be acceptable today, but its not as universally bad hes portraying in his video. But then again, maybe kids who watched it couldnt see through the subtext in the video.
the be all and end all here is: it is not the place of someone outwith communities being apologised to, to dismiss the need for that apology.
How is Stanz so perpetually based
It's still extremely frustrating as a POC that Charlie either does not understand or refuses to acknowledge that that old content WAS damaging and it WAS harmful. And it upsets me that he can dismiss it as "I saw it in my 20s and was able to recognize the satire." Like Idubbbz said, casual racism is racism and casual bigotry is bigotry. He saw that in his 20s and did not recognize it as bigotry, and he still won't recognize it as that now
I'm not trans or anything, but that story of the trans fan makes me almost cry every time I hear it.
2016 was 7 years ago. To put that into context, idubbz was popular back when I was in high school. I have since graduated college and the amount of growth I’ve had in that time is astronomical. When you’re young things stick better, including the bad things.
Never seen a better take on this situation than stanz
I think charlie is wrong in the fact that you form your personality based on the people people you like, thats why peer pressure is a thing, so if you find someone funny online and they are a dick you become more of a dick
The "Bon Voyage" + creeper emote had me crying 😭@11:59
i still find it crazy that you didnt know who idubz was even tho you said before you are not very into youtube previously
these tepid, middle-of-the-road, i-have-the-right-answers type of takes is exactly why ive always just gotten the ick from moistcritikal. on a brighter note, Stanz you make me proud to be myself. i live in rural australia & am a straight white dude. ive always been a loud & proud ally for all (sometimes to a fault) so it can feel like fighting a losing battle... hearing another man around my age express the exact beliefs i have regarding societal change/justice is heartwarming and empowering.
cheers mate!
Charlie just sounds disingenuous here because he’s intentionally not talking about what this “edgy” content actually was and instead keeps it very vague, for the purpose of making his points sound more reasonable.
That is what edgy meant in 2016 therfore he isn't being vague he's using the word for what it was
at some point Stanz will do a deep dive into mr beast or pewdiepie and open with "i've never seen this man in my life"
I’ve already done both 😂
@@stanz my bad 💀
Yeah i agree with everything. There was a time in my life where i was going around facebook groups writing "N-word F-word" laughing to myslef because IDubbz made it so funny to me for some reason. I now understand what that was reinforcing and I would personally apologize to every one i may have offended this way, therefore i'm glad he feels the same now and acted appropiately
.
If you go on the internet and get offended you are an actual clown
Charlie saying he doesn’t like being taken out of context
That’s literally what he does to everyone else, that’s his content
I think what idubbbz did was wrong and i think that he has profuted a lot off of a lot of hurt he did. I also think it was weird how he did not mention this topic in depth in a lot of interviews and stuff he did before now. However, I do think he changed because making an apology and shifting your content is not something he had to do. He could have kept up the edgy thing and made a lot if money for the rest of his career but he didn't, he put himself up for a lot of hate from his own community by switching which i feel shows genuine remourse. I also think his apology sounded pretty sincere in that ge didn't fake cry and play the victim, he acknowledged he hurt people he apologized to those he hurt, he actively told his a pretty considerable size of his fanbase to essentially go find content elsewhere they are no longer welcome, and he took steps to somewhat remove the hurtful stuff he said from the internet in a public fashion. Also i won't lie people like Anthony Padilla and Hassan have vouched fir him and said he has truly changed, as well as the group of people who decided to fight in his events who i believe would mot fight in his events if he was still acting the way he used to. So while i think it is important to not sweep what he did under the rug it is important to allow him to change, which he seems like he has done to some extent maybe he needs yo do a little more, but i feel if we allow him to change then maybe if even like 10% of his fan base sees his video and sees how he was accepted maybe they will also drop their hurtful ways. I think he has changed.
Edit: this is specifically about the use of language not the criticism. I think Idubbbz was very good at attacking big creators who were doing harm, i am talking about the word usage.
Well said
D'Angelo Wallace’s reaction next!! 🫡
One of the most racist 2016 content creators dropped the most genuine 2022 apology video, that's crazy
What saddens me the most that a lot of people, even those who agree with Ian's apology, tend to write off his justification of slurs as just edgy, as opposed to racist (regardless of intent) and harmful. And it wasn't just left on the internet because he garnered an audience of bigots who went on to harrass minorities. Glad that at least Ian recognises it and addresses it fully.
it was really weird because he was treating it like he went from pokémon to digimon content
I think the biggest problem here is that Stanz doesn't actually know what Idubbbz videos were. A big point in Charlie's video was that Ian exaggerated how biggoted his videos were. He wasn't constantly screaming slurs.
Exactly. Ian was arguing against a strawman caricature of himself and then Stanz is agreeing that there is indeed straw because of that description. Charlie is laying the basic points out in front of him and contending that perhaps Ian’s mentality about what he created has become warped and isn’t a reliable narrator… the way that strong emotions do for almost all of us.
The two worst people to ask for objectivity in court are the plaintiff and the defendant and yet here we are asking the offended and Ian to be the sole arbiters of this matter.
People saying that Charlie can’t have a take because he wasn’t hurt is the biggest poodoo Twitter take of all time. Hence why his videos are VITAL to understand the whole situation. 3rd parties are fundamental to that.
I think you covered most of it and did a great job, i agree with your takes completely. D'angelo Wallace has a great video responding to Charlie's takes which shows a censored version of iddubbs offenses to debunk Charlie's takes but without attacking iddubbs
That Mogul mail guy better watch out for Stanz 👀
Not a broad definition of satire at all. You need to watch idubbbz' old content really. It wasn't just a cornucopia of slurs. A lot of it was valid and needed criticism from a stage pretty much only Ian could stand on.
Whenever Charlie feels personally attacked his brain goes to mush
With idubbz here because charlies main content is super negative criticism like content cop was, also his take with dark viper who was against streamers like Charlie stealing content without permission
Ngl I feel like in 2016 we were saying that 2011-13 was edgy and now we’re in 2023 saying 2016 was edgy. I don’t think that in 2016 content cop was okay to most people.
Charlie is so butt hurt because his own content is watered down Content Cop and idubbz is callling out Charlie’s main schtick
I don’t think idubbbz made racists. I think he made racism part of their humor. The same way that South Park did
Stanz is unbelievably based.
iDubzzz has been working very hard to distance himself from his prior self for many years now, but you could tell this was still weighing on him until he addressed it verbally.. like charlie said, it was a diary entry that helped him process it and try to move forward. Not a complete acquittal of all harm done, but a very well-intentioned start
You're right about Idubbbz, Stanz, but his wife really is kind of a cringe person
Ians happy so it doesn’t matter
Wait does your editor have his own channel? I love his voice and humor
i really appreciate this video. it was extremely well analyzed and your commentary was really interesting to hear, even for my terrible zoomer attention span. i really liked hearing your takes. you gave a lot of maturity and insight and worded things amazingly. great work!
I work at a school and many of the students there idolize Andrew Tate, this feels similar to me, when Andrew Tates ideas fade out of popularity on the internet, people aren't going to think that what he said back then was okay, content creators have a huge impact on the internet, and not realizing that is ignorant.
YO BIG W Stanz for normalizing going to therapy. in my largely irrelevant but still honest opinion, therapy should be as normal as going to the doctor when you're sick. or just feeling sick. or thinking maybe you could be sick. going to therapy should be normal for people who don't even think anything's wrong with them. even people who feel fine, and are by all means fine, can profit from going to therapy. it's healthy to talk to someone, no judgement, no fear of having to be vulnerable, no akwardness, no nothing. therapy for everyone, that's how life should be, and sadly, how it probably never will be. but still we should fight for everyone's chance to go to therapy.
Most people don't because of exhorbitant cost. 🥴
I don't miss content cop idubbbz, I miss Pokemon card pack opening battles with MaxMoeFoe idubbbz 😔
Nah as a queer woman iDubbz MADE me homophobic, transphobic, and misogynistic. I thought I was “one of the good ones”. I was 14 and perpetuated hate in person by engaging with other iDubbz viewers. Charlie is saying I found this content because I already was a bigot. I was a bisexual teen girl and became a bigot thanks to him, Leafy, etc. Thank god I’ve grown.
Uhhhh, Bazinga am I right?
what da dog doin
iDubbz apology is a really fucking good thing to do and I'm so glad he did it because it helps me see him in a different light now.
I generally like Charlie but his take was bs and he should rethink about the damage iDubbz' old content has done.
Common stanz W
Did you guys watch the end of the video? Charlies take becomes nuanced after he was informed, being ignorant of something is not bad and now he knows. So just chill he is clearly a good guy with a good head on his shoulders he just didn't grasp the concept of racism being perpetuated or normalized through idubbz content. But at the end he does recognize that is a very real possibility.
I hate when Charlie says Idubbz should just come out and say, "Hey guys it was 2016, I was edgy, I think it's cringe now...". Like how does he not get this isn't about it being cringey or acceptable, Idubbz is apologizing for the trickle effect his content had on a generation, he's not apologizing just for saying slurs. It's such a stupid and weak mindset to call what Idubbz did or what he contributed to society as, "cringey", and it comes off like Charlie is severely downplaying the use of slurs, or he's grossly misinterpreting what Idubbz is apologizing for.
Wow im amazed at how Stanzs chat responds to drama like holy shit right out of the bat they barrage with L takes and not even trying to understand the opinion before even calling him names or that his opinion is wrong, dont wanna say is mob mentality cause even when Stanz disagrees he gave the benefit of the doubt and didnt feel the need to respond mockingly
like in the 2nd vid someone says "he oughta apologize for his take, for his sake" like wat
They had probably already seen both the idubbz video and the Charlie video, and formed their own opinions prior to watching stanz stream
I knew about the idubbbz stuff but learning about the charlie takes through this video
How does stanz not know who idubbbz is 😂? Thats wild.
If you want to know more about idubbbz more in depth now then check out his interviews & podcasts with Anthony Padilla, fear& pod then later on hasans stream and the h3 podcast that he and Anisa did around the time of the first creator clash. They were all interesting. Im glad that idubbbz/Ian finally addressing it on his channel.
As for Charlie, i think the point went over his head. Hes a cishet white guy, the apology wasn't for him. The apology was for all the slurs and doing the whole all or nothing thing he did with it.
Its wild that charlie understood a little but just kinda doubled down on what he said and got defensive. Im a fan of both of these guys but charlie really tries to sit on the fence a lot.
8:30
@@inflatablepenguin I got there eventually 😂.
i think the problem is i dont really care the drama or both sides enough
im really waiting for the: Before today i had never even heard of this ludwig. But as i will be working with him soon, i will do a deep dive into Ludwig Ahgren
thank you stanz! all of the commentaries have been so incredibly ignorant of the effect that that type of content had on minority groups
Bruh you can set an example and police your community but you CANT be held responsible beyond that point.
okay so like I'll be honest, I used to like Idubbz old content and stuff, I was also like an edgy 21-23 year old I thought he was calling people out for their shitty behaviour and I agreed with it at the time. now being older I know the way he did it was bad and wrong, the problem Idubbz has here is that he kind of garnered some of the worst people on the internet in his community back then, and event sort of recently with giving favorable coverage to people like Sam Hyde.
So for him to turn on a dime was not going to be well recieved by his audiance. feel bad for his wife too cause his audiance was so incel coded (myself included back then tbh) that him being with someone who has or had an OF was bound to spell for harrassment from his termonally online troll base.
I now I am a bit late, but I would like to expand a bit on Stanz point about content responsability, he states that you should always make content considering your moral and personal opinions with respect of children who might watch.
That would asume a youtube video can never be art, and I hardly disagree with that point. Art can and should challenge our status quo, therfore it can be beholdent to morals, or else it will never evolve past the mundanity of the ordinary
Bro the thing with IDubbz is he knew that shit was bad. He knew throwing around those slurs was not a good thing and he still did it anyway, and using the excuse “well it was 2016 humor was different” yeah humor was different but I didn’t consider going up to people and saying the n-word is humor. That’s humor for racists. And to be clear about another thing yeah his wife was getting some slack but it was all mostly turned towards him and wasn’t really about her.
This whole incident made me lose some respect for Charlie. He usually has a good head on his shoulders, but, this instance felt very defensive of him. Even his second video was reluctant to label Ian or his old content harmful--got any weird video regrets Moist Man? I don't know a lot about his old content, but Charlie criticizes a lot of social media and the effect it has on kids, and for him to not see the way Ian's behavior changed his young fanbase is really shortsighted
2016 is 7 years ago bro i was a freshman-sophomore in high school. im 21 almost 22 now. idk about you but im a completely different person from when i was 14-15 to now.
I hate when UA-camrs make a video and then get mad when people give their take about the situation lol. Like don’t make a video then if you’re gonna treat everyone’s take as being bad. That shit is stupid
You are reponsible your your own actions and you are responsible to break down information you take in and to say this is bad i dont like it. If you are a child this ksnt the creators responsibiltity it is your parents.