I walked away from a Pan America due to a $4k markup and they wouldn’t give me an OTD price unless I was buying. I moved on and started shopping other premium brands. Ever dealer gave me an OTD price within 5 minutes and most were discounted. Brand loyalty means nothing when they want to screw you over. I could care less if Harley or it’s dealers go under.
Right, we need to know what they want. I hate when they start the numbers game, and you are sitting there for hours. I think they are just waiting for us to give up and say, YES! Ride Safe
Strange, I was a HD dealer that had four Pan America's in stock, they would have jump to sell my anyone of them at sticker's price. Of course there was taxes, and their registration and dealer prep fees, the latter two are negotiable.
5 dealers in my area and not one of 'em would give me an otd price. Walked on a Fat Boy at a 6k mark up after I did finally give in and walk into the showroom.
I had a salesman at a Harley dealership tell me my "legs were too small" for a certain model, so I walked over and sat on the bike, perfect fit. I wanted to tell him his brain was too small but instead I blueballed him for three hours, past close, and then walked out: no sale and laughed at him.
@@SludgedB sharpening your skills on a few other dealers before going after the vehicle you really want is a good way to learn how to get a better deal.
The worst thing about H-D is the dealership experience. I now refuse to have anything to do with their dealerships. I strictly buy used privately or from generic dealerships. And save a lot of money, to boot.
The more I hear about Harley-Davidson dealers, the more I’m glad I bought my Triumph Bonneville T 100 new in 2007 and kept it. I paid it off, the insurance is low ($140 per year) and I do 80% of the maintenance myself. You can’t beat paid off, reliable, oil tight and easy on the wallet.
@@JA-zh5xi Coveted by every newbie middle aged rider thats first bike is a Harley because they think it makes them an instant biker /hells angels wannabe by default. Enter stage center: Balding squids that duck walk their bikes at speeds under ten mph while revving the crap out of it.
I agree 100% on walking away from dealers without pricing on their bikes. I have 4 dealers within an hour ride from me. Only 1 has all bikes marked. Both new and used. Guess who has my business. 2 bikes over the past 2 years and get treated like family. No pressure whatsoever. M&S HD of Chambersburg PA is the best dealer I have experienced in 50 years of riding
I was supposed to go to Frederick Harley today to test ride a few but it's not happening because of the rain. Maybe it's a sign and I should go to M&S instead..?
I experienced this twenty years ago when they tried a 30% markup for "prep". I walked away, bought an old BMW and gave it a frame off restoration. I see no point in encouraging such behavior.
Boycott Harley. Good man. There’s always used. I got a cb500 for touring, simple and cheap. And a triumph street triple for riding daily. Both like new and costs less than a used a Harley. I also do most of my own work and save lots of money. The Triumph is a little more pricey for insurance but for now I really enjoy it. I also got a used mini bike that is super cheap. I was on my mini bike when I stopped to help an old guy on a fully dressed Harley bagger. It looked like the shifter bar came unbolted or loose. Another full dress Harley stopped and I looked pretty hilarious between those. But, at least I stopped. The day I broke down, not one person stopped. About 5 hours. I was disappointed in humanity.
The very first business lesson I ever learned was when I went with my father to a Massey Ferguson tractor dealer in North Wales in around 1967/8. The memory is of a man in a suit calling after us, calling my dad’s name, imploring him to come back - as we exited the showroom’s glass doors. The value of being prepared to walk away from the first, second or even the third offer, was instilled in me. As a direct consequence of that very very valuable lesson, I have always chased the sources offering the lowest price, but also always leaving a decent profit for the seller, so that he will always be glad to see me again. Elementary. In business we always make our first profits at the buying stage. That gives us the opportunity to have flexibility in our sales pricing. It’s a very simple principle, but it works. A situation where dealers are feel the right or need be ripping off their customers, suggests that THEIR relationship with THEIR suppliers could be behind their behaviour, possibly due to it being in some way deficient. And when I look at the way HD is, and has been run for decades, I’m not at all surprised.
Very good points. I always felt HD should have been the owner of the stores. This way, they can sell all the bikes from the MSRP they post on their site. Ride Safe
I quit Harley back in 08 after “trying” to buy a new bike, and trade in my 03 RK custom (which I purchased new from them) after finding out the dealer had changed dramatically. They treated my low mile excellent condition trade in like I just dug it out of the boneyard, trying to question the salesman was like watching someone in front of a congressional committee. Between my trade, and the price of the new one, I was paying nearly MSRP. The next closest dealer was over 100mi away. I bought a very nice Japanese cruiser, paid far less, got a great deal on my trade in, and never looked back.
You have to go for the deal and not the brand. We ride and buy what we want because it makes us happy. Glad you found what you were looking for. Ride Safe
My favorite bike is a 2008 Harley Vrod. But I’ll never buy new at a dealer again. Between markup and then instant deprecation after you ride off, it just isn’t worth it or the dealer headache.
@@Dumbeddownbymedia Right? When I started riding over 50yrs ago, we always worked on our own bikes. My first Harley was a 64 pan head. I carried extra parts and a good tool kit with me at all times. The only person that was gonna get me off the side of the road, was me. 😂
It really sucks! I’ve been to two dealers trying to buy a bike. Neither would even tell me what the bike I wanted cost!! They would only tell me to come sit in the office and see what we could work out. I specifically asked what the cost of the bike was and they refused to tell me!! It’s like dealing with a shady used car dealer! I then went to an Indian shop and every single bike had a price tag on it! Harley is really starting to suck a$$!
I feel that Harley needs to just tell their dealers to clearly mark the prices on the bikes. But I know a lot of people who walk in and pay whatever is asked of them. Ride Safe
I have had very similar dealer experiences and it’s gotten worse lately. I have heard and seen everything including over msrp, extra fees, ridiculously low trade values, and sales pressure and games. I am a cash buyer and they try and push insane financing. I’ve walked out many times and decided I will never buy from another dealer. I get the impression the motor company knows exactly what is going on at the dealership level and couldn’t care less. Warranty work is a joke too.
Agreed. The two dealerships near me are exactly that way. Their parts and service departments are the worst I've ever dealt with, and I'm an auto mechanic with 34 years of professional experience so I know bad service when I see it.
I'm an auto mechanic in Pennsylvania.. I own 2 dynas.. Harley dealer in my area is now a part of like 22 dealer private equity ownership group.. Service dept..(which I have no need for) is a mess from the tech I know who used to work there.. The whole no price tags on bikes to the 5 hour process to actually get a price n buy a bike is ridiculous...
Yeah. I think the Company and Dealership run it like the same way. Bean counters, as it is all numbers and bullshit. I have not purchased new for years and i don't buy 2nd hand through dealers. I find the general public are far more honest.
Just bought my Harley Icon from Liberty HD in NJ and they couldn’t have been any nicer, no tricks or hidden fees, msrp, it was painless, very appreciative … I hear what your saying about dealerships, in general, as each is different. Happy I found the bike I wanted and the great team, thankful.
I responded to an HD dealership ad last spring, what motivated me was the “All Inclusive Price” and they listed everything, Shipping PDI etc, along with a very strong mission statement in regards to “THE PRICE IS THE PRICE” nothing hidden, we thrive on honesty etc etc, I contacted by phone to confirm “the all inclusive price” ....3 days of phone calls , emails etc they still would not commit to what they had advertised, I reminded them of the strong mission statement and “all inclusive price” still got no where, I thanked them for waisting 3 days I’ll never get back, false advertising not a concern it seems.
I walked away from a 23 Street Glide at Texas Harley Davidson when the sales guy and his manager piled a bunch of junk fees on the sales agreement, and factored in an outlandish interest rate on the loan when I was amply qualified for the ultra low promotional interest rate. They essentially admitted to trying to hose me. I got up from the table without saying anything and walked away. I will never buy a motorcycle from a Harley dealer.
Exactly. Anything you want to do like upgrade your lights that's 2700.00 and 1700.00 for the bracket. Seat 600.00 handlebars 500.00 pipes 2000.00 suspension 4000.00 on top of that the salesman some goofy ginger at Huntington Beach harley davidson was a real piece of work. Tried every scumbag technique to try to Squeeze me at every turn. Lied about a bunch of stuff being included in the deal that were additional charges. Denied me water. Ultimately I caved and signed on the dotted line.. this thing is expensive as hell and just to make it fast enough to keep up with my friends it will be another 10k in upgrades if I'm being conservative. 2022 Road Glide special $32k. for that much money im honestly not impressed at all with the build quality overall. My clutch cable snapped from normal usage before 5k miles. Harley charges an arm and a leg for parts.. if im paying an elevated price for a stock part I might as well upgrade and go aftermarket for the same price or near to it. Harley wanted 225.00 for a battery.. Walmart $97.00 otd. K&N oil filter $13.00 at autozone and its a better filter than stock and $7.00 less. I'm about to surrender my bike and buy a Honda.
if HD is a premeium product why do they run lean and hot when they reach the dealer, why do they need maintenance to run correctly when they are brand new
The dealerships around me are selling some stuff at MSRP, but HD jacked up the prices 25% or so in the last couple years and introduced an additional fee. Wanted $19,500 OTD for a soft tail standard - which seemed grossly overpriced for what it was. Maybe at $15,000.
1- I have never been in an HD dealer that sold bikes at MSRP without some sort of hidden charges. Let me know where I can find one. 2- Never EVER buy an extended warranty. 3- Original warrantees are governed by federal law, not the manufacturer or dealer.
Then don't buy it. Here is what you are missing: "Value" has no meaning other than what people will pay for a thing. There are no other formulas to determine what the "value" of a thing is. The value of your home is not just a sum total of the price of the bricks and sticks, it is the market price that someone else will pay if you do not. If I have ten people that want the same bike (I am not a bike dealer, but pretend I am for the purposes of this lesson), then the MSRP is NOT the value of that bike. At his higher price, I only have 5 people that want it. t this even higher price, I only have 3 people that want it. The price at which there is only one person who wants my one bike, or only 6 people who want my 6 bikes...that is the value. No other value exists for that bike outside of your head. Value is the place where supply and demand meet, a price point known as "equilibrium." Why should someone sell a bike to you, at a price that will disappoint 5 other people, rather than sell it at a higher price where there is only one guy who still wants it, disappointing no one?
@@kennedymcgovern5413 market pricing aside, the one bike at the price only one person can afford brings in a certain amount of profit for HD versus a fairly fixed manufacturing cost to make a volume of bikes in general at a plant. The one bike doesn't exist in a vacuum - someone else may not always buy it, dealerships may end up sitting on models for 1-2 years until they finally get discounted enough to get sold at a loss. Those situations that may quickly spiral into something that leads to bailouts and shifting more production overseas. At least around me the inventory on bikes are piling up, where you can barely stand one up inside the showroom.
What is happening in the west coast and Texas where I live a couple big conglomerates are buying up the dealerships and basically fixing prices. They will own the majority of dealerships in a lucrative area and unless you are willing to go outside your area they sell the bikes for the same price. I have a friend that has sold HD bikes for over 20 years. This is what he related to me. Some ( if not the majority ) of dealers do not hire professional sales people but a position called a “ fit specialist “ they are basically greeters and follow a formula to get you on a bike and then turn you over to the sales manger to close you on a bike. The fit specialist may have been selling computers at Best Buy last week. I fear if the demise of the truly independent dealership continues it will be like buying a car or truck which can be a miserable experience.
Wow. Interesting. I just don't get why dealers want to alienate people. HD should step in, but they will tell you dealers are independent contractors..I've always bought from private sellers, and service them at independent custom shops when i need too
@@HarleyDayRider yeah they show their MSRP…. Then on the bottom…. You get the “TOTAL PRICE”. With the $9K extra. You know. $32K for a $23K bike. Forgot to tell you. The dealership tried to sell me a 2023 FLHCS $29K. And this was in 2024!!!! Supposedly trying to clear out the last years models….
I had the same issue in 2020 when I bought my Softail Standard. One dealer had it at $3000 over MSRP. Went to another dealer in the Valley and bought one for $1000 under MSRP. The first dealer, before they changed their name, was known to rip people off. Kind of like Barnett in El Paso.
Dealers are strictly following the selling script given them by HD . They are told it works and they believe it. Reform would require the motor company to repent and atone, not the dealers.
I visited my local Tennessee HD dealership 6 times trying to buy my first HD after over 40 years of riding. I was interested in a Pan America and nothing else. They kept inflating the price, and telling me I couldn't get one at MSRP. Then they started having me test ride a bike other than the model I wanted. The last straw was when I made an appointment to talk to my salesperson, and I stood around for over 45 minutes while he talked to several other customers. I finally got disgusted and left, now I ride a spiffy Suzuki V-Strom 1050XT that cost me $10,000 LESS than the base Pan America, and included many accessories. Maybe I will try again in a couple of years.
Sucks man, I got mine at MSRP and they gave me more for my trade than they rightfully even should have, I love my Pan but these people marking them up are crazy. My dealer has a new 22 GI edition he would do for 19k right now to move it.
I agree, HD MSRP is so far off now. I'm seeing dealer markups putting bikes 5k+ above MSRP, and I've seen people saying it's even higher in their areas. Like you said HDR, why HD even bothers showing it on the site is beyond me at this point.
It's called business. Car dealers were taking advantage as well. They are tanking now. Repo's are climbing across the board. Best thing to do. Don't buy until they stop with their bs. Besides I don't by from the woke corps anymore.
great video Most dealers I dealt with in Tennessee did the same thing, double the prep, doubled the doc fees plus a dealer mark up charge of $1400, that was nonnegotiable plus added on a mandatory protection plan.
I'm a little late to the party but I feel the need to comment. I bought a brand new bike in 2020. The owner, an older no nonsense gentleman. He advertised "no extra fees." He was 4 hours away from me so I called to verify. He told me in no uncertain terms the all the extra fees were absolute bullshit. He even went so far as to explain what he meant. He said he paid a guy over $20 per hour to prep bikes. He said it took him around an hour to do so. Then he stated "why are other dealers charging $500 bullshit prep fees!" The dealers only do what we allow them to.
I've had many bikes over the years, bought my first Harley a few years back. Currently have an Ultra and an FJR, love them both. But the Yamaha was so much easier of a buying experience and I felt like I was getting screwed much less buying it.
Yeah, that whole bait & switch tactic with prices is a hard pass from me. I'm surprised the gov't hasn't enforced Monroney stickers on bikes like they do on cars & trucks. I once had a guy try a hard sales tactic with me on a car... he showed up an hour late to my appt to see the car, and immediately asked, "so, what's it gonna take to put you in that car today?" I turned to his manager, who was standing right next to him, and said, "not seeing HIM any more, or I'm leaving." and I pointed at the sales guy. The manager told him to get coffee for him, and I dealt with the manager on the deal, LOL.
Interesting topic HDR; Personally I don’t think these dealers are doing anything different than any car dealer. You hit the nail on the head…walk away. We have to remember, you are not there to make friends. You are there for a business transaction. We are the consumers and we run the show. I have 5 HD dealers within a hour or so….speaking of that. When you start shopping take a look in our area around Norfolk , VA. Huge military town and always a lot of low mileage bikes.
Yes. Car dealers have a extremely poor reputation. I have dealt with many although now i will not buy new. So second hand cars i purchase are from.private owners. Far more honesty.
Been riding for about 50 years, lots and lots of miles, lots of different brands but never Harley. I stopped by one day to see what I was missing. I looked at replacing a GL1800 that had well over 100,000 miles and wanted to look at a touring Harley. Well I was in the dealership for about 15 minutes looking at high dollar bikes when a kid with a ring in his nose and ….. well let’s just say he didn’t represent the type of sale staff for a in excess of $22,000 motorcycle. I ask a few simple questions and his response was “ your just not ready for a Harley “. I agreed.
The closest dealer to me went under new management and went out of business about 5yrs ago. They were the worst. They fired all the staff everyone knew. Sales didn't know what they were talking about. Parts dept ordered wrong stuff all the time, lost orders etc. Service dept damaged bikes, and they couldn't seem to ever put a tire on the right way. No biker events ever. It was the owners way or the highway. They never changed and went away because of it.
I went to a dealership in Lawton Ok and they had bought an auction bike that had been lade over and slid. They didn't even fix it and were asking full retail! I told them they had lost there mind and he said it only has 600 miles. I told him it slid on its side for most of those miles. The bike was beautiful on one side and trashed on the other! I haven't gone back!!
So interesting to hear your thoughts and others about some dealerships. The differences in them can be so vast, I must wonder if this is in fact what is happening everywhere. Harley Corp should pay attention to these insights to keep their legendary brand thriving. Also, cookie cutter shops would make the buyer and regular rider think twice about stopping when they all look the same. Price gouging and not honoring warranties is a disgrace and probably illegal.
The cookie-cutter approach will also be used to distract riders from just visiting dealers. Do you ever just visit a Big Box store to look around? Ride Safe
If it was a problem, it would have been solved a long time ago but we are in business to make money for the franchise and the corporation. If you want something for nothing, vote for democrats.
@@gfunk63901 Ha ha we see that didn’t work! Prices are through the roof. We all want the dealers to prosper but spread it over a large amount of customers. Ride Safe
Do not finance thru Harley. They tried to charge me a really high interest rate I asked why since my credit wasn't that bad, they said to me we do things different here I went to my credit union & got my interest rate down more than half of Harleys.
Bought my first Harley in 1996. Paid a $5000 premium. At that time, there was a 2 year waiting list. That was, if you could even get on a waiting list. Many dealers catered to their long time customers. Getting on the list wasn’t a given. I remember walking into a Windsor Canada dealer and saw a showroom overflowing with new bikes. But being a Yank, I couldn’t buy one at any price. Same deal going on today.
That was when H-D hadn’t oversaturated their market and you could trade your bike in the next year for a new model or sell it for more than you bought it for. The ‘premium pricing’ no longer holds up when you can find 100 of the same bike for sale, 1 year old used for 2/3 or less than the original price.
I bought a new one once in 06 and my experience wasn't bad , but the fact is you can find low mileage used ones loaded up with aftermarket goodies let someone else take the depreciation. There are a lot of guy's who are polisher's that buy , but don't ride
I found a few great bikes used yesterday. I found 2019 with 9,000 miles. Thanks for the suggestion. I think I will buy the next one used with what I want on it already. You are right why take the hit? Ride Safe
Wildcat HD in Kentucky is the only ones I’ll buy a bike from and it’s because the reverse motor went out on my TriGlide 1 years after the warranty expired and I took it in to replace the $700 motor and they didn’t charge me a dime. And I ask why I didn’t owe for it, and the manager said he knew I’d come back again if I ever needed anything. My wife bought $200 worth of t-shirts that day 😁👍
I dont think I'll be buying any more Harleys. I had a pan/shovel combo for a few yrs. Apparently I wanted it to behave like a Japanese cruiser because the Yam Vstar I have now is the best cruiser I've owned and I've owned a lot of bikes in my time. If there was a choice between the two bikes sitting side by side, knowing what I know after all these years? I'd take the Yam without hesitation but I'd still WANT the Harley. I remember when a new HD was $3500.00. Adding a zero to the end I just cannot swallow.
@@HarleyDayRider Im the same as you, I ride A 2019 RGS which I love, however I kept looking at the latest generation goldwing DCT, in the end I had to try and test ride one, that was a real issue as Hondas policy is no test rides... anyhow I found a dealership with a used one who allowed me a test ride. Took it out and although I loved the DCT and power and smoothness of the motor I hated the riding position and stupid bag design... maybe I might try again in the future, however there is talk of GW's ending soon due to EU emissions regulations.. guess time will tell
The dealer near me wanted $37,000 for a ‘23 Street Glide ST. I made a 6 hour round trip and saved $5000. Widen your search area. It could save you $$$$$$$
I recently went to a H-D dealer to the parts counter. Was treated excellent. On the way out I saw a new bike w/o a price tag. I asked the salesman what the price was. He said, “Somewhere between $15 and $19k”. That answer told me depending on my credit score they might come up with a price. I continued to walk out past three other salespeople looking at their phones.
I bought a new Harley three months ago and went to a couple of different dealerships. They were within $18 of each other they were both almost $2000 over MSRP. I think they’re all in cahoots.
@@HarleyDayRider Yeah, I know that there are two different dealerships in my area and they both are part of dealer groups of like five each so they own pretty much all the dealerships in New Hampshire , Maine and northern Massachusetts
Bought my brand new 2016 Harley Dyna low Rider from Rattle Snake Harley Kennewick Wa. got a good price and was treated very well for being a first-time buyer
A lot of this is a result of so many Harley customers defaulting on their payments. It’s so bad that the company has gone public stating that there’s not enough repo companies to retrieve the bikes that people can’t pay for. Just because you see bikes flying off the showroom floor, does it really matter if that bike is back in 6 months to a year because the person who bought it defaulted on the loan? Every time that happens the dealership takes a huge loss. To offset those losses they raise the prices of the rest of their stock. And now with Harley completely abandoning the average Joe consumer and trying to assume a Cadillac style business model by appealing primarily to the upper middle class and rich retired or close to retired demographic. You still have the younger demographic that are trying to get into that Harley “family” bs they push even though they can’t afford it, due to Harley’s history. Under no circumstances should a new softail standard cost more than 12k in 2023. And I’m only giving in 12k because it has the M8 107 in it. But that’s where we are now with Harley because no matter how hard the consumer gets screwed, the Harley fanatics keep coming back for more.
@@HarleyDayRider appreciate the well wishes but I’ll be purchasing an Indian next month when I get back home, I’ll be out of the country until then. It’s either going to be a Chief Bobber Darkhorse, a Springfield Darkhorse or a Chieftain. Depends on which one I can get the better deal for at the local dealer. I have nothing against Harley motorcycles, I just don’t like their business practices, and prefer the feel of the Indians. However one day my garage will be full of both brands. 🤘🏾 Stay safe out there and keep the rubber side down.
MSRP is a “Suggested Retail Price”, then they tell you that you need to add Freight which they price and they have added an additional Supply Sucharge as well. So that 27,999 is now 29,999 for the basic black. The dealers are adding anywhere from 5k to 10k based on the model as a ADM (Added Dealer Markup). Rule of thumb is that you can buy anything for MSRP price OTD… but my experience has been you can get additional monies off to get the bike at least $1000 below MSRP including all taxes and fees. - I used to be in the car business and the bump stickers and fluff is optional. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY the addendums it is pure profit with very little additional value. Addendum Stickers are just additional dealer profit, walk out the door like the HDR says.
This is where Harley needs to put a stop to this practice. I know corporate sales numbers come from what they are sending to the dealers, not what we are buying. And charging freight is crazy, has anyone noticed that Harley has their own trucks? Great points and thanks for sharing. Ride Safe
Agreed. I haven't ever tried to purchase a new Harley, but I have purchased 3 new bikes in the past. I have never paid MSRP, out the door -- typically $1k under MSRP after TTL.
Harley dealers love bending over so-called ‘alpha males’ who don’t have the spine to negotiate hard. The only good way to own a Harley these days is to buy one that is a few years old with low miles, where someone else ate the overpriced original purchase and depreciation.
I shopped around for 2 years and every motorcycle dealership within 500 miles. Every dealership gave me an OTD price immediately once asked and some had the price listed on the motorcycle but HD wouldn't tell me anything unless I would come have a seat in the office and "talk".
What's hurting the Harley-Davidson brand more than anything, is there woke Dei crap by the German ceo. That is going to be what if anything is going to cause the Harley-Davidson company to collapse.
After hammering out an "Out the Door Price" i came back the next day with a bank check and when i went to sign the paperwork & pay I see they jacked up the price by almost $3000. I said "screw that" and walked. My friend and i were on our way to another dealership and when i got a call from the messed up dealership approximately 20 minutes later saying they would stick to our original deal. I told them I'd MAYBE come back there tomorrow. I did, and got my motorcycle for what we agreed on out the door.
I had to travel from another state to get my deal at retail back in 2021. Times are hard... I get it but something has to give... I work too hard for surcharges prices. If, I'm ever in the market again for a new bike. It's going to be a leftover or used bike. I respect my money too much. Plain n simple... ps Whenever, I see a dealer without prices on their bike. It's a done deal for me. Mama didn't raised no fool. My time is very valuable to me and I'm not going to waste any more time with that type of sale tactics. I'm out!
I feel the same way. Everyone, including me loves a new motorcycle. But I am looking at the used market. I feel you can get more for less and no extra fees. Ride Safe
They always want to talk payment,they want to know your your budget, want to know how much you willing to spend a month. They get none of that from me. I am polite but firm. If can't get them to give me an out-the-door price within 20 minutes of talking to them I'm done.
@@HarleyDayRider that's exactly why they do it cuz if they can stretch out the payments they can hook you up with a long-term loan they make all the money in the F&I office.
Dealer I dealt with for last 45 years. Original family owners, the price of each bike (MSRP) was on a tag on the bike. No BS, here's the price. Founder died, son took over, son died, founder's daughter took over. Through all that, that's the way they flew. Daughter sold and retired. Two different owners since. And since the original family sold, no price tags on any bikes. So you ask a salesman while looking at a bike; "What's the price tag on this unit?" Reply; "Oh between $22K and $26K." Me; "Ok, which is it?" Stealer; "Oh well that depends. Let's go to my desk and we'll get you lined out." Lined out no doubt, for every last cent that he figures he can screw me out of. "No thanks. My '05 runs just fine." I could be wrong, but I give HD about ten more years, which may well be at the root of why they do business the way they do now. Squeeze out every last dime before the demise.
10 years might be a stretch… my ex-wife has worked for Harley for close to 30 years and is hoping to make it 2 more years so she can collect her pension. They have cut manufacturing operations to the bone and have cut salaries employees wages and benefits to try to get them to quit. They are screwing people on both ends- employees and customers to squeeze every nickel to stay in business.
I have seen the similar thing happen here in Australia. Also a harley davidson specific dealer seems to be useless, profile you one way or another an either speak to you if they think you money an fit the criteria or ignore you if you dont fit into the mould. But a multi brand dealer is seems always happy to help out no matter what.
Maybe I'm naive but can I ask, why on earth anyone would ever buy a new Harley? There are hundreds of used HDs for sale these days, at far better prices. Harleys are reasonably low tech and wrench-friendly. Buy used, and make friends with your local independent bike mechanic if you aren't mechanically adept yourself. What am I missing?
I like to buy new when I can because I know the history of the bike. I am not saying this is right or wrong; just explaining why. I have also bought a few used bikes and had no issues. So I think you are on to something. I also have an independent Harley tech who takes excellent care of my bike. Ride Safe
My local dealer will take you straight to the used bikes. That's where their best markups for their profits are. Then add on warranties and service plans. A 10 year old bike can cost more than new. But they really don't want to sell you new. And now I am really enjoying my BMW new from another dealer.
I totally agree with the criticism of over-priced Harley's (marking up the MRSP), it's ridiculous. Notwithstanding, I still remember my high school Economics & Marketing class lesson that sellers will charge what the market will bear. If a firm is pricing its product based on whatever the market will bear, it means that the firm is charging as high a price as the consumers would be ready to pay. This can be done by firms that enjoy consumer loyalty. It can also be done when a firm is selling a new innovative product. (now let's see, which one is Harley Davidson?😁 People are obviously still buying Harleys at these ridiculous prices. It will be interesting to see just what the market will actually bear. 😐
That is part of the problem. People are still paying for whatever is asked of them. But some of us older bikers just can't waste money but still would love a new motorcycle. Ride Safe
@@PeterAnglesexactly. The people willing to pay way over MSRP are the ones dumb enough to finance it at over 20% as well. Harley is well known for screwing themselves and their customers in the long term to meet next quarter’s numbers.
I walked away at two of our local Harley dealerships. Called the BMW dealer and had the OTD price over the phone. My deal with financing was done in less than 1hr. The one Harley I did buy from HD I was about the walk out because the finance guys was screwing with the numbers. I just told him get the keys for my trade and tell my sales guy were are done and I am leaving... he finally quit his games.
Very good points. There are a lot of great brands out there. Many people, including me, bought into Harley to be part of a larger group. Maybe there are also Indian groups out there? Ride Safe
Motorcycle dealers are turning into car dealerships. The more and more large conglomerates buy up dealers its going to get worse. Using fees and all the add ons to jack the price. I will never ever buy a extended warranty it is pure profit for the dealer. My local dealer always jacks up over MSRP. MSRP is MSRP I will not give you a penny more than that. HD charges premium prices for sure.
I have Harleys, KTM, Honda, and Kawasaki. I have a Goldwing. It has everything on it standard. It even has reverse. I just shipped it to German and then rode down to my home in Italy. I do even buy Harley shirts anymore when I travel. Just to let you know how bad Harley prices get. A CVO is $130,000 in Indonesia. Harley is underpowered, too heavy, and overpriced. I have a 2 cylinder KTM that has 170 🐎 out the box.
The dealership here in Corpus Christi is notorious for this. I've walked away from them several times and ended up buying from a dealer in another city. I asked the sales rep why they don't put the MSRP price on the bikes and he told me they are not an MSRP dealer, I walked out. Figure out what bike you want and then shop around, in Texas there are dealers all over the place.
Give me your definition of a premium product. I own a 2005 Harley ultra, a 2000 Kawasaki, and a 2007 Victory Vegas jackpot , my Kawasaki has over 113,000 miles on it the Victory has over 70,000 and I have never been into the engines on them. I am fixing to do some minor upgrades on the Harley oil pump timing chain guides and rocker box gaskets. My definition of a premium product is not how much you pay but how much service you can get out of that product. Man that was a great topic! Have a great day
Thanks for enjoying the topic. The idea behind the premium product came from another UA-camr and a motorcycle tech. He said that the parts are built well. It sounds like you have a great stable of motorcycles. Ride Safe
I agree. I’ve had 3 Harleys. All three had significant problems. My Victory has 75k on it and the only thing that has ever been replaced (other than brakes and tires) is the speedometer. Runs and rides like a top.
Harley is not the only brand with dealers and huge markups. I was just looking at Chevy Tahoes this weekend and they ALL had a $6000 markup on them. Of course everything is negotiable. What I have found is that if the salesguy thinks you're ready to buy the bike (or the car) they will give you the real numbers. If they think you're just kicking tires you get the MSRP plus all the fees price. The easiest way to cut through the nonsense is to make your offer. They either say yes or no. It's really not that hard.
It is amazing to me that HD has not gone to a dealership free selling model. No-haggle online pricing with an algorithim designed to extract maximum profit from each transaction. Put things in high demand up for auction. Seems to work for Tesla.
Gets worse: my local dealer said flat out they will NOT work on any Harley over 10 years old. Drop 50+ grand on a Harley today and in 10 years you're on your own? Pass. I've got 3 and I just do all maintenance and repairs myself now. Did find a good local Harley shop (not a dealer) that was recommended by the dealer (?). Might let them do a little there.
I have an independent Harley tech who opened his own shop. I can tell you I am in and out quickly, and the issue is fixed. Plus the labor rates are $40.00 an hour. Ride Safe
A couple years ago I was going to buy a Harley. I could have paid it in full cash but opted for financing. Makes me glad at the time I didn't have a great credit score.
In the future I think HD dealerships will have to additionally sell foreign bikes to stay alive. You're right I wouldn't shop in a dealership with no price tags on bikes. In the end "It's your money & nobody can tell you how to spend it"
I will never buy a bike at a dealer. I buy them used and privately. Great deals are out there on used Harley’s. You gotta be patient and not be afraid to make offers on them. A new heritage 2024 softail is 25k right now. Dealer had a used 2016 with 55k miles and still wanted 14k for it. I bought a 2016 heritage with only 9k miles on it for 11,500 👍. Basically still a new bike. They also wanted 14k, then lowered it to 13k, but accepted my 11500 offer eventually. So you gotta be patient.
I feel the way you are buying bikes is the best. The dealer gets used bikes for almost nothing and jacks up the pricing by a few thousand dollars. Ride Safe
I have bought 4 new harleys. My experience I never had a problem talking OTD price its the only number I talk. One time my wife called the same dealer same salesman and he quoted 1k less on the new bike and 1k more on the trade in over the phone on the same day I talked to him in person. Told her take the deal we went down and bought on those terms. In my mind it showed what a game they can play.
There should not be a game. Just hang the REAL prices on the bikes, and they would sell more. Remember the loaf of bread from my video? We all pay the same price and get the same deal. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider Sales of this tuoe unfortunately will not be bread. You know the real one you got to watch out for is if you're financing or talking to that Finance person they're the ones that'll get you. That is why I feel very important to talk otd.
If you were at a dealer and you were interested in a 2024 HD Fatboy and the MSRP is $21.999 and seeing as the 2025s are coming out now,what would you want to pay for that bike?
A couple years ago…I stopped into my local harley dealer…sat on a bunch of bikes…may have bought a new bike…when the “owner” / salesman asked if I had a 8:23 trade in…yup…2006 softail deluxe…low miles/nearly immaculate…what if I wanted to bring in the bike for a primary chain/drive belt maintenance…the dealer/owner said that they do not usually work on bikes that old…hmmm…walked out and never have gone back…
I feel if the Harley name is on the bike, they should work on them. From what I understand the reason they don't is because the new techs are not trained on anything older than 5 years. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider Had a similar issue with a Ducati dealer north of Denver…would not work on my 2000 996S #214…but a race-shop in Boulder that specialized in Ducati’s worked on the bike…great guys, lots of knowledge.’
Harley lost me forever. Was looking to replace my 2012 ultra limited. New one, msrp 33k, after taxes, mark-up, b.s. fees, it was over 42k. I walked and bought a new 6-speed Goldwing for 11k less. I absolutely love it.
I ride an '02 RK and a '17 Ultra, both bought new, and I seek out independent service shops and online retailers for most all my needs. As last resort I go to a HD dealership. I'm fine not riding the latest Harley, I can wait several years to buy another. My HD dealership experience hasn't been a good one. A dealership is the last place I shop for repairs, parts, accessorizes, and clothing. We all know the HD brand is an overpriced scam and we're all suckers. Bikers shouldn't be suckers, so stop it.
The logo is, I guess King! If it were me I would sell all my clothing lower so that I could have free advertising of the brand. But I am not a retail guy. I agree with waiting. Ride Safe
Having listened to you, why would anyone want want to experience the headache of buying a Harley ? Or put up with a warrenty that the dealer sold you but won't honor ? Or a corporation that doesn't care that the rider is getting ripped off price wise ? The mystery of Harley is why would anybody want to go through that experience . 🤔
The dealer in the UK i used didnt take the piss. Bike's on the floor had the OTD price on them. He told H D to stuff it when they wanted him to spend a fortune on a new/upgrade shop. HD had given each dealer in the UK a bike that was a limited edition. So if there's 20 UK dealers then 20 Bike's. He had FOUR in his show room as some dealers couldn't sell them in the time frame before they had to pay H D for the bike. He was one of the few that paid up front.
Harley needs to recognize that soon the loyal generation of guys that will blindly buy their overpriced motorcycles will age out of buying new bikes. If they don’t make a significant pivot in the next couple years, they will be doomed by younger riders that Will not buy a motorcycle with ancient designd and outdated tech solely because ‘Merica!
My Harley was the 2001 model the parts guy at the dealer in Golden laughed in my face when I asked for a new set of throttle cables he said the model was too old to service
Have had a 2007 fltr. 2010 street glide. I now ride a 2005 flhtci which was my fathers. I love it nice smooth running 1450 no sensors and that classic look. No new Harley's for me too much $
Yea, the whole “what payment do you want” pissed me off. WHAT IS THE INTEREST RATE? That is the most important aspect of whether I am going to use your financing or not. Last time I got a good manager who told me the best price and called HDFS to try to get a better deal. He got me 0.1% interest for 36 months, so I took his financing. But that is not unique to Harley. I have had the same “here is the monthly price” game at Triumph, BMW, Honda, and Indian dealers. - I am in the US.
My experience is you need to have a starting block with your dealership. My wife and I did that and since then we've bought 6 bikes from them all hassle free and would never go anywhere else, just our experience though.
I dont think some dealers are crushing the brand on purpose...but some dealers maybe doing it unintentionally....the #1 difference between dealers....doesnt matter if its Honda...Harley...suzuki...GMC...Ford...Dodge....the #1 thing that will make or break a dealer is management!!...I recently bought a new truck from a Ford dealer I used years ago and had a horrible experience...I went back a couple months ago...new management....completely different experience...they were awesome!!...great video...thanks for sharing...stay safe out there!!!😎👍🤙👍🤙🇨🇦
I walked away from a Pan America due to a $4k markup and they wouldn’t give me an OTD price unless I was buying. I moved on and started shopping other premium brands. Ever dealer gave me an OTD price within 5 minutes and most were discounted. Brand loyalty means nothing when they want to screw you over. I could care less if Harley or it’s dealers go under.
Right, we need to know what they want. I hate when they start the numbers game, and you are sitting there for hours. I think they are just waiting for us to give up and say, YES! Ride Safe
Strange, I was a HD dealer that had four Pan America's in stock, they would have jump to sell my anyone of them at sticker's price. Of course there was taxes, and their registration and dealer prep fees, the latter two are negotiable.
Agreed let the stealerships go under.
5 dealers in my area and not one of 'em would give me an otd price. Walked on a Fat Boy at a 6k mark up after I did finally give in and walk into the showroom.
I agree, and I ride a HD
“You can walk away from a bad deal at any time - I did it with my wife” 😆
You are correct. I didn't walk I ran. Ride Safe
😂😂😂👍👍
Hehehehehe ... 😝😝too funny ...
On her birthday...
Nice
I had a salesman at a Harley dealership tell me my "legs were too small" for a certain model, so I walked over and sat on the bike, perfect fit. I wanted to tell him his brain was too small but instead I blueballed him for three hours, past close, and then walked out: no sale and laughed at him.
That was the way to handle that. Ride Safe
Nobody is worth me wasting three hours of my time on
@@SludgedB sharpening your skills on a few other dealers before going after the vehicle you really want is a good way to learn how to get a better deal.
I bought my bagger straight from a brother! No dealer necessary , no marks up , no nothing! I love my club brothers , only ones I trust!
@@SludgedByou probably spend 3 hours watching tv? lol
The worst thing about H-D is the dealership experience. I now refuse to have anything to do with their dealerships. I strictly buy used privately or from generic dealerships. And save a lot of money, to boot.
I have seen a few independent shops around here selling used Harley's, and their prices are marked. Ride Safe
The more I hear about Harley-Davidson dealers, the more I’m glad I bought my Triumph Bonneville T 100 new in 2007 and kept it. I paid it off, the insurance is low ($140 per year) and I do 80% of the maintenance myself. You can’t beat paid off, reliable, oil tight and easy on the wallet.
Sounds like you have a fantastic motorcycle. I will have to look into this brand. Ride Safe
Harley’s are very reliable too and have been for many years. Plus, Harley is the most coveted motorcycle brand out there.
2012 Triumph Speedmaster here. Love it!
Alot better off buying a triumph nice bike
@@JA-zh5xi Coveted by every newbie middle aged rider thats first bike is a Harley because they think it makes them an instant biker /hells angels wannabe by default. Enter stage center: Balding squids that duck walk their bikes at speeds under ten mph while revving the crap out of it.
I agree 100% on walking away from dealers without pricing on their bikes. I have 4 dealers within an hour ride from me. Only 1 has all bikes marked. Both new and used. Guess who has my business. 2 bikes over the past 2 years and get treated like family. No pressure whatsoever. M&S HD of Chambersburg PA is the best dealer I have experienced in 50 years of riding
Well, I live in Pa, so I will look them up. Thanks for sharing the information. Ride Safe
I am seeing this trend more and more of no price tags on the bikes. I agree, walk out!
Yep, looked at new bikes in Langhorne, Pa., not a single price tag on any of them. Bye.
Laidlaws is the only dealership near me with listed prices.
I was supposed to go to Frederick Harley today to test ride a few but it's not happening because of the rain. Maybe it's a sign and I should go to M&S instead..?
I experienced this twenty years ago when they tried a 30% markup for "prep". I walked away, bought an old BMW and gave it a frame off restoration. I see no point in encouraging such behavior.
Especially in doing research, Harley reimburses the dealers for prep. That is called double dipping. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider Just keeping the rubber side down :P
Boycott Harley. Good man. There’s always used. I got a cb500 for touring, simple and cheap. And a triumph street triple for riding daily. Both like new and costs less than a used a Harley. I also do most of my own work and save lots of money. The Triumph is a little more pricey for insurance but for now I really enjoy it. I also got a used mini bike that is super cheap. I was on my mini bike when I stopped to help an old guy on a fully dressed Harley bagger. It looked like the shifter bar came unbolted or loose. Another full dress Harley stopped and I looked pretty hilarious between those. But, at least I stopped. The day I broke down, not one person stopped. About 5 hours. I was disappointed in humanity.
@HarleyDayRider That's a fact. They get paid to do a PDI by the manufacturer.
The very first business lesson I ever learned was when I went with my father to a Massey Ferguson tractor dealer in North Wales in around 1967/8. The memory is of a man in a suit calling after us, calling my dad’s name, imploring him to come back - as we exited the showroom’s glass doors.
The value of being prepared to walk away from the first, second or even the third offer, was instilled in me. As a direct consequence of that very very valuable lesson, I have always chased the sources offering the lowest price, but also always leaving a decent profit for the seller, so that he will always be glad to see me again. Elementary.
In business we always make our first profits at the buying stage. That gives us the opportunity to have flexibility in our sales pricing. It’s a very simple principle, but it works.
A situation where dealers are feel the right or need be ripping off their customers, suggests that THEIR relationship with THEIR suppliers could be behind their behaviour, possibly due to it being in some way deficient.
And when I look at the way HD is, and has been run for decades, I’m not at all surprised.
Very good points. I always felt HD should have been the owner of the stores. This way, they can sell all the bikes from the MSRP they post on their site. Ride Safe
I quit Harley back in 08 after “trying” to buy a new bike, and trade in my 03 RK custom (which I purchased new from them) after finding out the dealer had changed dramatically. They treated my low mile excellent condition trade in like I just dug it out of the boneyard, trying to question the salesman was like watching someone in front of a congressional committee. Between my trade, and the price of the new one, I was paying nearly MSRP. The next closest dealer was over 100mi away. I bought a very nice Japanese cruiser, paid far less, got a great deal on my trade in, and never looked back.
You have to go for the deal and not the brand. We ride and buy what we want because it makes us happy. Glad you found what you were looking for. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider exactly! Couldn’t have said it better.
My favorite bike is a 2008 Harley Vrod. But I’ll never buy new at a dealer again. Between markup and then instant deprecation after you ride off, it just isn’t worth it or the dealer headache.
Ever notice, most hd riders can't change their own oil.
@@Dumbeddownbymedia Right? When I started riding over 50yrs ago, we always worked on our own bikes. My first Harley was a 64 pan head. I carried extra parts and a good tool kit with me at all times. The only person that was gonna get me off the side of the road, was me. 😂
It really sucks! I’ve been to two dealers trying to buy a bike. Neither would even tell me what the bike I wanted cost!! They would only tell me to come sit in the office and see what we could work out. I specifically asked what the cost of the bike was and they refused to tell me!! It’s like dealing with a shady used car dealer! I then went to an Indian shop and every single bike had a price tag on it! Harley is really starting to suck a$$!
I feel that Harley needs to just tell their dealers to clearly mark the prices on the bikes. But I know a lot of people who walk in and pay whatever is asked of them. Ride Safe
$29 K for a 2023 Heritage in 2024!!!!
Same thing happed to me
I have had very similar dealer experiences and it’s gotten worse lately. I have heard and seen everything including over msrp, extra fees, ridiculously low trade values, and sales pressure and games. I am a cash buyer and they try and push insane financing. I’ve walked out many times and decided I will never buy from another dealer. I get the impression the motor company knows exactly what is going on at the dealership level and couldn’t care less. Warranty work is a joke too.
I feel you are on task with your thoughts. Ride Safe
Agreed. The two dealerships near me are exactly that way. Their parts and service departments are the worst I've ever dealt with, and I'm an auto mechanic with 34 years of professional experience so I know bad service when I see it.
I'm an auto mechanic in Pennsylvania.. I own 2 dynas.. Harley dealer in my area is now a part of like 22 dealer private equity ownership group.. Service dept..(which I have no need for) is a mess from the tech I know who used to work there.. The whole no price tags on bikes to the 5 hour process to actually get a price n buy a bike is ridiculous...
Yeah. I think the Company and Dealership run it like the same way.
Bean counters, as it is all numbers and bullshit. I have not purchased new for years and i don't buy 2nd hand through dealers.
I find the general public are far more honest.
Take their financing if it gets you a better price, then pay the loan off immediately. They’ll get a nice little chargeback from the lender.
Just bought my Harley Icon from Liberty HD in NJ and they couldn’t have been any nicer, no tricks or hidden fees, msrp, it was painless, very appreciative … I hear what your saying about dealerships, in general, as each is different. Happy I found the bike I wanted and the great team, thankful.
I wish I could make it to your dealer. It sounds like you got a great deal. Ride Safe
I responded to an HD dealership ad last spring, what motivated me was the “All Inclusive Price” and they listed everything, Shipping PDI etc, along with a very strong mission statement in regards to “THE PRICE IS THE PRICE” nothing hidden, we thrive on honesty etc etc, I contacted by phone to confirm “the all inclusive price” ....3 days of phone calls , emails etc they still would not commit to what they had advertised, I reminded them of the strong mission statement and “all inclusive price” still got no where, I thanked them for waisting 3 days I’ll never get back, false advertising not a concern it seems.
Bait and Switch. Sometimes they will give you a FREE hotdog. Ride Safe
I walked away from a 23 Street Glide at Texas Harley Davidson when the sales guy and his manager piled a bunch of junk fees on the sales agreement, and factored in an outlandish interest rate on the loan when I was amply qualified for the ultra low promotional interest rate. They essentially admitted to trying to hose me. I got up from the table without saying anything and walked away. I will never buy a motorcycle from a Harley dealer.
I know a guy who was paying $600.00 a month because he so called feel in love with the bike. You did the right thing.
If a Harley Davidson is a premium product, why do people spend $10,000 swapping out parts even after they paid 30,000 for the motorcycle?
You are exactly right. I heard that on a tech’s video. Ride Safe
Exactly. Anything you want to do like upgrade your lights that's 2700.00 and 1700.00 for the bracket. Seat 600.00 handlebars 500.00 pipes 2000.00 suspension 4000.00 on top of that the salesman some goofy ginger at Huntington Beach harley davidson was a real piece of work. Tried every scumbag technique to try to Squeeze me at every turn. Lied about a bunch of stuff being included in the deal that were additional charges. Denied me water. Ultimately I caved and signed on the dotted line.. this thing is expensive as hell and just to make it fast enough to keep up with my friends it will be another 10k in upgrades if I'm being conservative. 2022 Road Glide special $32k. for that much money im honestly not impressed at all with the build quality overall. My clutch cable snapped from normal usage before 5k miles. Harley charges an arm and a leg for parts.. if im paying an elevated price for a stock part I might as well upgrade and go aftermarket for the same price or near to it. Harley wanted 225.00 for a battery.. Walmart $97.00 otd. K&N oil filter $13.00 at autozone and its a better filter than stock and $7.00 less. I'm about to surrender my bike and buy a Honda.
if HD is a premeium product why do they run lean and hot when they reach the dealer, why do they need maintenance to run correctly when they are brand new
they charge 500 for first sevice
The dealerships around me are selling some stuff at MSRP, but HD jacked up the prices 25% or so in the last couple years and introduced an additional fee. Wanted $19,500 OTD for a soft tail standard - which seemed grossly overpriced for what it was. Maybe at $15,000.
1- I have never been in an HD dealer that sold bikes at MSRP without some sort of hidden charges. Let me know where I can find one.
2- Never EVER buy an extended warranty.
3- Original warrantees are governed by federal law, not the manufacturer or dealer.
I had a local dealer tell me the same number more than a year ago. I don't pay dealer, and I damn sure don't pay markup.
Then don't buy it.
Here is what you are missing: "Value" has no meaning other than what people will pay for a thing. There are no other formulas to determine what the "value" of a thing is. The value of your home is not just a sum total of the price of the bricks and sticks, it is the market price that someone else will pay if you do not.
If I have ten people that want the same bike (I am not a bike dealer, but pretend I am for the purposes of this lesson), then the MSRP is NOT the value of that bike. At his higher price, I only have 5 people that want it. t this even higher price, I only have 3 people that want it. The price at which there is only one person who wants my one bike, or only 6 people who want my 6 bikes...that is the value. No other value exists for that bike outside of your head.
Value is the place where supply and demand meet, a price point known as "equilibrium." Why should someone sell a bike to you, at a price that will disappoint 5 other people, rather than sell it at a higher price where there is only one guy who still wants it, disappointing no one?
@@kennedymcgovern5413 market pricing aside, the one bike at the price only one person can afford brings in a certain amount of profit for HD versus a fairly fixed manufacturing cost to make a volume of bikes in general at a plant. The one bike doesn't exist in a vacuum - someone else may not always buy it, dealerships may end up sitting on models for 1-2 years until they finally get discounted enough to get sold at a loss.
Those situations that may quickly spiral into something that leads to bailouts and shifting more production overseas.
At least around me the inventory on bikes are piling up, where you can barely stand one up inside the showroom.
I would say that is over the top. Ride Safe
What is happening in the west coast and Texas where I live a couple big conglomerates are buying up the dealerships and basically fixing prices. They will own the majority of dealerships in a lucrative area and unless you are willing to go outside your area they sell the bikes for the same price.
I have a friend that has sold HD bikes for over 20 years. This is what he related to me. Some ( if not the majority ) of dealers do not hire professional sales people but a position called a “ fit specialist “ they are basically greeters and follow a formula to get you on a bike and then turn you over to the sales manger to close you on a bike. The fit specialist may have been selling computers at Best Buy last week.
I fear if the demise of the truly independent dealership continues it will be like buying a car or truck which can be a miserable experience.
Yes, we hate to buy anything new these days. It should be a special time of your life to buy something new. Ride Safe
Wow. Interesting. I just don't get why dealers want to alienate people. HD should step in, but they will tell you dealers are independent contractors..I've always bought from private sellers, and service them at independent custom shops when i need too
I had one try to sell me a Road Glide Standard in 2022. Also $9k above MSRP and did the “you get that everywhere” line. Still not on a Harley.
I always like to see their MSRP on tags on the bikes. No tags no HDR. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider yeah they show their MSRP…. Then on the bottom…. You get the “TOTAL PRICE”. With the $9K extra. You know. $32K for a $23K bike. Forgot to tell you. The dealership tried to sell me a 2023 FLHCS $29K. And this was in 2024!!!! Supposedly trying to clear out the last years models….
Every dealer probably does this but harley for some reason is so much more expensive then every of other brand
They feel they are the top brand. Ride Safe
I had the same issue in 2020 when I bought my Softail Standard. One dealer had it at $3000 over MSRP. Went to another dealer in the Valley and bought one for $1000 under MSRP. The first dealer, before they changed their name, was known to rip people off. Kind of like Barnett in El Paso.
I feel your pain. I need to keep looking around and see what is out there. Ride Safe
Instead of controlling HD dealers aesthetics, HD should be getting bad business practices under control.
Right. But I have heard we are not their customers, the dealers are. Ride Safe
Dealers are strictly following the selling script given them by HD . They are told it works and they believe it. Reform would require the motor company to repent and atone, not the dealers.
I visited my local Tennessee HD dealership 6 times trying to buy my first HD after over 40 years of riding. I was interested in a Pan America and nothing else. They kept inflating the price, and telling me I couldn't get one at MSRP. Then they started having me test ride a bike other than the model I wanted. The last straw was when I made an appointment to talk to my salesperson, and I stood around for over 45 minutes while he talked to several other customers. I finally got disgusted and left, now I ride a spiffy Suzuki V-Strom 1050XT that cost me $10,000 LESS than the base Pan America, and included many accessories. Maybe I will try again in a couple of years.
Sounds like you came away with a great motorcycle. I feel bad dealers are hurting sales, and you just proved it. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider too bad HD never produced the Bronx... I would have bought that in a hot second.
Sucks man, I got mine at MSRP and they gave me more for my trade than they rightfully even should have, I love my Pan but these people marking them up are crazy. My dealer has a new 22 GI edition he would do for 19k right now to move it.
Well you really did do better with the 1050 to be honest. Keep it. Don't trade the 1050 in on a Pan America.
I agree, HD MSRP is so far off now. I'm seeing dealer markups putting bikes 5k+ above MSRP, and I've seen people saying it's even higher in their areas. Like you said HDR, why HD even bothers showing it on the site is beyond me at this point.
Maybe they can do like a restaurant does with a Lobster dinner, Current Market Value? Ride Safe
It's called business. Car dealers were taking advantage as well. They are tanking now. Repo's are climbing across the board. Best thing to do. Don't buy until they stop with their bs. Besides I don't by from the woke corps anymore.
I bought a leftover 2022 royal enfield 350 classci OTD $5,250.
About the markup you mentioned.
great video Most dealers I dealt with in Tennessee did the same thing, double the prep, doubled the doc fees plus a dealer mark up charge of $1400, that was nonnegotiable plus added on a mandatory protection plan.
I'm a little late to the party but I feel the need to comment. I bought a brand new bike in 2020. The owner, an older no nonsense gentleman. He advertised "no extra fees." He was 4 hours away from me so I called to verify. He told me in no uncertain terms the all the extra fees were absolute bullshit. He even went so far as to explain what he meant. He said he paid a guy over $20 per hour to prep bikes. He said it took him around an hour to do so. Then he stated "why are other dealers charging $500 bullshit prep fees!" The dealers only do what we allow them to.
Great you found a good dealer.
You're not buying a premium product. You're buying a feeling that's been sold to you.
That is a great way to put it. Ride Safe
That’s why every Harley should cost at least $1m and be handcrafted entirely in the US. Because you can’t put a price on a feeling.
Wrong
At a premium price…
I've had many bikes over the years, bought my first Harley a few years back. Currently have an Ultra and an FJR, love them both. But the Yamaha was so much easier of a buying experience and I felt like I was getting screwed much less buying it.
I just want to find a new bike, and I don't mind paying, I do, however mind overpaying. Ride Safe
What you said is so true. Harley needs to shop dealers!! That’s why I ride an Indian. Ride Safe Brother!
Do you find Indians more dependable, and how is their service? I have been looking at the Challenger. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider I have 25,000 miles on my 2017 Indian Springfield. Not one issue. Service from my dealer has been outstanding. Ride Sfae
@HarleyDayRider I'll chime in if I can. I have an Indian Roadmaster. Reliable, smooth riding bike. Dealers I've been to have been awesome.
Yeah, that whole bait & switch tactic with prices is a hard pass from me. I'm surprised the gov't hasn't enforced Monroney stickers on bikes like they do on cars & trucks.
I once had a guy try a hard sales tactic with me on a car... he showed up an hour late to my appt to see the car, and immediately asked, "so, what's it gonna take to put you in that car today?" I turned to his manager, who was standing right next to him, and said, "not seeing HIM any more, or I'm leaving." and I pointed at the sales guy. The manager told him to get coffee for him, and I dealt with the manager on the deal, LOL.
Most dealers' cars, bikes, and trucks feel we can't go anywhere else. Like we own them something? Ride Safe
Maybe the non-Monroney issue is due to motorcycles being a "luxury" item not a necessity. Just a guess.
@@joel8034on that note so are cars and trucks
Interesting topic HDR; Personally I don’t think these dealers are doing anything different than any car dealer. You hit the nail on the head…walk away. We have to remember, you are not there to make friends. You are there for a business transaction. We are the consumers and we run the show. I have 5 HD dealers within a hour or so….speaking of that. When you start shopping take a look in our area around Norfolk , VA. Huge military town and always a lot of low mileage bikes.
Thanks for the tip. I have been looking at used and new bikes not sure which direction I will go just yet? Ride Safe
Yes. Car dealers have a extremely poor reputation. I have dealt with many although now i will not buy new. So second hand cars i purchase are from.private owners. Far more honesty.
Been riding for about 50 years, lots and lots of miles, lots of different brands but never Harley. I stopped by one day to see what I was missing. I looked at replacing a GL1800 that had well over 100,000 miles and wanted to look at a touring Harley. Well I was in the dealership for about 15 minutes looking at high dollar bikes when a kid with a ring in his nose and ….. well let’s just say he didn’t represent the type of sale staff for a in excess of $22,000 motorcycle. I ask a few simple questions and his response was “ your just not ready for a Harley “. I agreed.
The closest dealer to me went under new management and went out of business about 5yrs ago. They were the worst. They fired all the staff everyone knew. Sales didn't know what they were talking about. Parts dept ordered wrong stuff all the time, lost orders etc. Service dept damaged bikes, and they couldn't seem to ever put a tire on the right way. No biker events ever. It was the owners way or the highway. They never changed and went away because of it.
Taking care of the customer is the main topic for a business to run and profit. Lose the customer and lose the business. Ride Safe
I went to a dealership in Lawton Ok and they had bought an auction bike that had been lade over and slid. They didn't even fix it and were asking full retail! I told them they had lost there mind and he said it only has 600 miles. I told him it slid on its side for most of those miles. The bike was beautiful on one side and trashed on the other! I haven't gone back!!
Well that is just not right. Ride Safe
So interesting to hear your thoughts and others about some dealerships. The differences in them can be so vast, I must wonder if this is in fact what is happening everywhere. Harley Corp should pay attention to these insights to keep their legendary brand thriving. Also, cookie cutter shops would make the buyer and regular rider think twice about stopping when they all look the same. Price gouging and not honoring warranties is a disgrace and probably illegal.
The cookie-cutter approach will also be used to distract riders from just visiting dealers. Do you ever just visit a Big Box store to look around? Ride Safe
If it was a problem, it would have been solved a long time ago but we are in business to make money for the franchise and the corporation. If you want something for nothing, vote for democrats.
@@gfunk63901 Ha ha we see that didn’t work! Prices are through the roof. We all want the dealers to prosper but spread it over a large amount of customers. Ride Safe
I had a terrible experience 20 years ago with my local HD dealer, I never bought another HD and have been a happy BMW rider since
I have never ridden a BMW. I will have to seek out a dealer for a demo ride. Ride Safe
Do not finance thru Harley. They tried to charge me a really high interest rate I asked why since my credit wasn't that bad, they said to me we do things different here I went to my credit union & got my interest rate down more than half of Harleys.
That is a funny word, differently! WHAT! Always use your credit union. Ride Safe
Bought my first Harley in 1996. Paid a $5000 premium. At that time, there was a 2 year waiting list. That was, if you could even get on a waiting list. Many dealers catered to their long time customers. Getting on the list wasn’t a given. I remember walking into a Windsor Canada dealer and saw a showroom overflowing with new bikes. But being a Yank, I couldn’t buy one at any price. Same deal going on today.
I remember when you had to order your new bike and wait for it to arrive. Ride Safe
That was when H-D hadn’t oversaturated their market and you could trade your bike in the next year for a new model or sell it for more than you bought it for.
The ‘premium pricing’ no longer holds up when you can find 100 of the same bike for sale, 1 year old used for 2/3 or less than the original price.
Harley is going to price themselves out of business. I can’t figure out how anyone can afford a new Harley
I agree with you 100%. Money is tight for everyone at this point. Ride Safe
Great information. Thank you.
Please have your garage structurally evaluated against wind failure.
It is very solid. It is insured for sure. Ride Safe
Unfortunately, we only have one Harley dealer where I live. They couldn’t care less about me and didn’t even give me the time of day when I walked in.
This is very sad to hear. I know how you feel. Ride Safe
Ha you must be from Vermont also?
@@jimgomez5396 no, I’m from Calgary in Canada.
And it’s only going to get worse as more dealers close, leaving no competition for the remaining ones.
@@Mike-vn3mb agreed.
I bought a new one once in 06 and my experience wasn't bad , but the fact is you can find low mileage used ones loaded up with aftermarket goodies let someone else take the depreciation. There are a lot of guy's who are polisher's that buy , but don't ride
I found a few great bikes used yesterday. I found 2019 with 9,000 miles. Thanks for the suggestion. I think I will buy the next one used with what I want on it already. You are right why take the hit? Ride Safe
Wildcat HD in Kentucky is the only ones I’ll buy a bike from and it’s because the reverse motor went out on my TriGlide 1 years after the warranty expired and I took it in to replace the $700 motor and they didn’t charge me a dime. And I ask why I didn’t owe for it, and the manager said he knew I’d come back again if I ever needed anything.
My wife bought $200 worth of t-shirts that day 😁👍
This is a positive, uplifting story. So your wife got two t-shirts. Ha ha. Ride Safe
That's called great business...
We give out OTD numbers every day, to the penny. I tell customers, "you can write the check at home, there is NO other fees"
Can you DM me on Instagram? I would like to know where your dealer is located. Thanks. Ride Safe
I dont think I'll be buying any more Harleys. I had a pan/shovel combo for a few yrs. Apparently I wanted it to behave like a Japanese cruiser because the Yam Vstar I have now is the best cruiser I've owned and I've owned a lot of bikes in my time. If there was a choice between the two bikes sitting side by side, knowing what I know after all these years? I'd take the Yam without hesitation but I'd still WANT the Harley. I remember when a new HD was $3500.00. Adding a zero to the end I just cannot swallow.
I love the Harley. I am looking at other brands to see how they ride and what I am getting for my money. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider Im the same as you, I ride A 2019 RGS which I love, however I kept looking at the latest generation goldwing DCT, in the end I had to try and test ride one, that was a real issue as Hondas policy is no test rides... anyhow I found a dealership with a used one who allowed me a test ride. Took it out and although I loved the DCT and power and smoothness of the motor I hated the riding position and stupid bag design... maybe I might try again in the future, however there is talk of GW's ending soon due to EU emissions regulations.. guess time will tell
The dealer near me wanted $37,000 for a ‘23 Street Glide ST. I made a 6 hour round trip and saved $5000. Widen your search area. It could save you $$$$$$$
Thanks, I will be doing that. Ride Safe
I found the Harley Davidson Dealership here impossible to deal with. I ride an Indian.
If I could afford to switch I would love the new Indian Pursuit. Ride Safe
@HarleyDayRider The Pursuit is a fantastic Bike. I really enjoy it.
I recently went to a H-D dealer to the parts counter. Was treated excellent. On the way out I saw a new bike w/o a price tag. I asked the salesman what the price was. He said, “Somewhere between $15 and $19k”. That answer told me depending on my credit score they might come up with a price. I continued to walk out past three other salespeople looking at their phones.
I bought a new Harley three months ago and went to a couple of different dealerships. They were within $18 of each other they were both almost $2000 over MSRP. I think they’re all in cahoots.
Many dealers are owned by the same group in a given area. Unless we are willing to go to another state, we could get caught in a trap. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider Yeah, I know that there are two different dealerships in my area and they both are part of dealer groups of like five each so they own pretty much all the dealerships in New Hampshire , Maine and northern Massachusetts
Bought my brand new 2016 Harley Dyna low Rider from Rattle Snake Harley Kennewick Wa. got a good price and was treated very well for being a first-time buyer
I have heard they are a really great dealer. Ride Safe
A lot of this is a result of so many Harley customers defaulting on their payments. It’s so bad that the company has gone public stating that there’s not enough repo companies to retrieve the bikes that people can’t pay for. Just because you see bikes flying off the showroom floor, does it really matter if that bike is back in 6 months to a year because the person who bought it defaulted on the loan? Every time that happens the dealership takes a huge loss. To offset those losses they raise the prices of the rest of their stock.
And now with Harley completely abandoning the average Joe consumer and trying to assume a Cadillac style business model by appealing primarily to the upper middle class and rich retired or close to retired demographic. You still have the younger demographic that are trying to get into that Harley “family” bs they push even though they can’t afford it, due to Harley’s history.
Under no circumstances should a new softail standard cost more than 12k in 2023. And I’m only giving in 12k because it has the M8 107 in it. But that’s where we are now with Harley because no matter how hard the consumer gets screwed, the Harley fanatics keep coming back for more.
I agree with you. They need to do a better job of credit checking. You will enjoy the M8 107. It is a good engine. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider appreciate the well wishes but I’ll be purchasing an Indian next month when I get back home, I’ll be out of the country until then. It’s either going to be a Chief Bobber Darkhorse, a Springfield Darkhorse or a Chieftain. Depends on which one I can get the better deal for at the local dealer. I have nothing against Harley motorcycles, I just don’t like their business practices, and prefer the feel of the Indians. However one day my garage will be full of both brands. 🤘🏾
Stay safe out there and keep the rubber side down.
MSRP is a “Suggested Retail Price”, then they tell you that you need to add Freight which they price and they have added an additional Supply Sucharge as well. So that 27,999 is now 29,999 for the basic black. The dealers are adding anywhere from 5k to 10k based on the model as a ADM (Added Dealer Markup). Rule of thumb is that you can buy anything for MSRP price OTD… but my experience has been you can get additional monies off to get the bike at least $1000 below MSRP including all taxes and fees. - I used to be in the car business and the bump stickers and fluff is optional. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY the addendums it is pure profit with very little additional value. Addendum Stickers are just additional dealer profit, walk out the door like the HDR says.
This is where Harley needs to put a stop to this practice. I know corporate sales numbers come from what they are sending to the dealers, not what we are buying. And charging freight is crazy, has anyone noticed that Harley has their own trucks? Great points and thanks for sharing. Ride Safe
Agreed. I haven't ever tried to purchase a new Harley, but I have purchased 3 new bikes in the past. I have never paid MSRP, out the door -- typically $1k under MSRP after TTL.
Harley dealers love bending over so-called ‘alpha males’ who don’t have the spine to negotiate hard.
The only good way to own a Harley these days is to buy one that is a few years old with low miles, where someone else ate the overpriced original purchase and depreciation.
Premium is questionable. I own a Honda Fury and my bike is a premium bike. Thanks!
I agree with what you are saying. My tech says some of their parts are premium. I should have clarified that. Ride Safe
Manufacturer's are asking too much for stuff... stores and dealers have to ask too much. We gotta stop buying like everything to fix it lol
I agree 100%. But trying to get even three people to stand together in these times is impossible. Ride Safe
I shopped around for 2 years and every motorcycle dealership within 500 miles. Every dealership gave me an OTD price immediately once asked and some had the price listed on the motorcycle but HD wouldn't tell me anything unless I would come have a seat in the office and "talk".
I'm glad this doesn't happen when buying food. Ride Safe
What's hurting the Harley-Davidson brand more than anything, is there woke Dei crap by the German ceo. That is going to be what if anything is going to cause the Harley-Davidson company to collapse.
Prices keep going up, and features keep getting taken away. Ride Safe
Crap bikes will be the cause. Fact.
After hammering out an "Out the Door Price" i came back the next day with a bank check and when i went to sign the paperwork & pay I see they jacked up the price by almost $3000. I said "screw that" and walked. My friend and i were on our way to another dealership and when i got a call from the messed up dealership approximately 20 minutes later saying they would stick to our original deal. I told them I'd MAYBE come back there tomorrow. I did, and got my motorcycle for what we agreed on out the door.
They should never up the price after you get the loan. This is just crazy. They are lucky they got you back. Ride Safe
I had to travel from another state to get my deal at retail back in 2021. Times are hard... I get it but something has to give... I work too hard for surcharges prices. If, I'm ever in the market again for a new bike. It's going to be a leftover or used bike. I respect my money too much. Plain n simple... ps Whenever, I see a dealer without prices on their bike. It's a done deal for me. Mama didn't raised no fool. My time is very valuable to me and I'm not going to waste any more time with that type of sale tactics. I'm out!
I feel the same way. Everyone, including me loves a new motorcycle. But I am looking at the used market. I feel you can get more for less and no extra fees. Ride Safe
A lot of dealers are killing sales for a lot of manufacturers. Cars and motorcycles.
I agree with you 100%! Ride Safe
They always want to talk payment,they want to know your your budget, want to know how much you willing to spend a month. They get none of that from me. I am polite but firm. If can't get them to give me an out-the-door price within 20 minutes of talking to them I'm done.
Yes, I wonder if they do that to see what they can really charge. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider that's exactly why they do it cuz if they can stretch out the payments they can hook you up with a long-term loan they make all the money in the F&I office.
Dealer I dealt with for last 45 years. Original family owners, the price of each bike (MSRP) was on a tag on the bike. No BS, here's the price. Founder died, son took over, son died, founder's daughter took over. Through all that, that's the way they flew. Daughter sold and retired. Two different owners since. And since the original family sold, no price tags on any bikes. So you ask a salesman while looking at a bike; "What's the price tag on this unit?" Reply; "Oh between $22K and $26K." Me; "Ok, which is it?" Stealer; "Oh well that depends. Let's go to my desk and we'll get you lined out." Lined out no doubt, for every last cent that he figures he can screw me out of. "No thanks. My '05 runs just fine." I could be wrong, but I give HD about ten more years, which may well be at the root of why they do business the way they do now. Squeeze out every last dime before the demise.
Yes, nothing has a price tag of this or maybe that. A price is a price. Ride Safe
10 years might be a stretch… my ex-wife has worked for Harley for close to 30 years and is hoping to make it 2 more years so she can collect her pension. They have cut manufacturing operations to the bone and have cut salaries employees wages and benefits to try to get them to quit. They are screwing people on both ends- employees and customers to squeeze every nickel to stay in business.
Harley dealers are straight up robbers ,they want more than MSRP of new bikes on used bikes!!!
Yes, and why are prices not hanging on the used bikes? Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider no prices on the used bikes, they want you to have ask sales so they can put the pressure on
I have seen the similar thing happen here in Australia. Also a harley davidson specific dealer seems to be useless, profile you one way or another an either speak to you if they think you money an fit the criteria or ignore you if you dont fit into the mould. But a multi brand dealer is seems always happy to help out no matter what.
I feel the same way. Ride Safe
Maybe I'm naive but can I ask, why on earth anyone would ever buy a new Harley? There are hundreds of used HDs for sale these days, at far better prices. Harleys are reasonably low tech and wrench-friendly. Buy used, and make friends with your local independent bike mechanic if you aren't mechanically adept yourself. What am I missing?
I like to buy new when I can because I know the history of the bike. I am not saying this is right or wrong; just explaining why. I have also bought a few used bikes and had no issues. So I think you are on to something. I also have an independent Harley tech who takes excellent care of my bike. Ride Safe
My local dealer will take you straight to the used bikes. That's where their best markups for their profits are. Then add on warranties and service plans. A 10 year old bike can cost more than new. But they really don't want to sell you new. And now I am really enjoying my BMW new from another dealer.
I totally agree with the criticism of over-priced Harley's (marking up the MRSP), it's ridiculous. Notwithstanding, I still remember my high school Economics & Marketing class lesson that sellers will charge what the market will bear.
If a firm is pricing its product based on whatever the market will bear, it means that the firm is charging as high a price as the consumers would be ready to pay. This can be done by firms that enjoy consumer loyalty. It can also be done when a firm is selling a new innovative product. (now let's see, which one is Harley Davidson?😁
People are obviously still buying Harleys at these ridiculous prices. It will be interesting to see just what the market will actually bear. 😐
That is part of the problem. People are still paying for whatever is asked of them. But some of us older bikers just can't waste money but still would love a new motorcycle. Ride Safe
@@PeterAnglesexactly. The people willing to pay way over MSRP are the ones dumb enough to finance it at over 20% as well. Harley is well known for screwing themselves and their customers in the long term to meet next quarter’s numbers.
I walked away at two of our local Harley dealerships. Called the BMW dealer and had the OTD price over the phone. My deal with financing was done in less than 1hr. The one Harley I did buy from HD I was about the walk out because the finance guys was screwing with the numbers. I just told him get the keys for my trade and tell my sales guy were are done and I am leaving... he finally quit his games.
and to be clear I have two Harley's and one BMW but I will look at others before walking into my local HD dealers
Very good points. There are a lot of great brands out there. Many people, including me, bought into Harley to be part of a larger group. Maybe there are also Indian groups out there? Ride Safe
Motorcycle dealers are turning into car dealerships. The more and more large conglomerates buy up dealers its going to get worse. Using fees and all the add ons to jack the price. I will never ever buy a extended warranty it is pure profit for the dealer. My local dealer always jacks up over MSRP. MSRP is MSRP I will not give you a penny more than that. HD charges premium prices for sure.
The dealer buys the bike from HD at a wholesale price anyway. So MSRP is what we should be paying. Ride Safe
I have Harleys, KTM, Honda, and Kawasaki. I have a Goldwing. It has everything on it standard. It even has reverse. I just shipped it to German and then rode down to my home in Italy. I do even buy Harley shirts anymore when I travel. Just to let you know how bad Harley prices get. A CVO is $130,000 in Indonesia. Harley is underpowered, too heavy, and overpriced. I have a 2 cylinder KTM that has 170 🐎 out the box.
I think all touring bikes should have a reverse. Ride Safe
H-D is facing a bigger problem with their CEO taking the company into woke territory.
Sales are down because prices are too high. Ride Safe
The dealership here in Corpus Christi is notorious for this. I've walked away from them several times and ended up buying from a dealer in another city. I asked the sales rep why they don't put the MSRP price on the bikes and he told me they are not an MSRP dealer, I walked out. Figure out what bike you want and then shop around, in Texas there are dealers all over the place.
Which dealer did you end up using? I’m am trying to find a good one in Texas
I am going to do just that. I need to shop around. Glad you found a good deal. Ride Safe
All HD dealer suck and everyone is coming around to the same opinion. 👎HD suck
I hear that so much! I maybe switching soon. Ride Safe
I'm so glad I live in a country where the listed price is the price they have to give you by law. And that includes VAT. 👍
That would be amazing.
Give me your definition of a premium product. I own a 2005 Harley ultra, a 2000 Kawasaki, and a 2007 Victory Vegas jackpot , my Kawasaki has over 113,000 miles on it the Victory has over 70,000 and I have never been into the engines on them. I am fixing to do some minor upgrades on the Harley oil pump timing chain guides and rocker box gaskets. My definition of a premium product is not how much you pay but how much service you can get out of that product. Man that was a great topic! Have a great day
Thanks for enjoying the topic. The idea behind the premium product came from another UA-camr and a motorcycle tech. He said that the parts are built well. It sounds like you have a great stable of motorcycles. Ride Safe
I agree. I’ve had 3 Harleys. All three had significant problems. My Victory has 75k on it and the only thing that has ever been replaced (other than brakes and tires) is the speedometer. Runs and rides like a top.
Harley is not the only brand with dealers and huge markups. I was just looking at Chevy Tahoes this weekend and they ALL had a $6000 markup on them.
Of course everything is negotiable. What I have found is that if the salesguy thinks you're ready to buy the bike (or the car) they will give you the real numbers.
If they think you're just kicking tires you get the MSRP plus all the fees price.
The easiest way to cut through the nonsense is to make your offer. They either say yes or no. It's really not that hard.
That is a great tip. Thanks! Ride Safe
It is amazing to me that HD has not gone to a dealership free selling model. No-haggle online pricing with an algorithim designed to extract maximum profit from each transaction. Put things in high demand up for auction.
Seems to work for Tesla.
They have been talking about full online ordering with no more dealers. Time will tell. Ride Safe
I been in six different HD dealers. Not one price tag hanging.
Yes, it does not happen anymore. Ride Safe
Gets worse: my local dealer said flat out they will NOT work on any Harley over 10 years old. Drop 50+ grand on a Harley today and in 10 years you're on your own? Pass. I've got 3 and I just do all maintenance and repairs myself now. Did find a good local Harley shop (not a dealer) that was recommended by the dealer (?). Might let them do a little there.
They don't last that long.
I have an independent Harley tech who opened his own shop. I can tell you I am in and out quickly, and the issue is fixed. Plus the labor rates are $40.00 an hour. Ride Safe
A couple years ago I was going to buy a Harley. I could have paid it in full cash but opted for financing. Makes me glad at the time I didn't have a great credit score.
Every dealer wants you to finance because they get a kickback, which means more money is made. Ride Safe
In the future I think HD dealerships will have to additionally sell foreign bikes to stay alive. You're right I wouldn't shop in a dealership with no price tags on bikes. In the end "It's your money & nobody can tell you how to spend it"
Very much the truth. Ride Safe
I will never buy a bike at a dealer. I buy them used and privately. Great deals are out there on used Harley’s. You gotta be patient and not be afraid to make offers on them. A new heritage 2024 softail is 25k right now. Dealer had a used 2016 with 55k miles and still wanted 14k for it. I bought a 2016 heritage with only 9k miles on it for 11,500 👍. Basically still a new bike. They also wanted 14k, then lowered it to 13k, but accepted my 11500 offer eventually. So you gotta be patient.
I feel the way you are buying bikes is the best. The dealer gets used bikes for almost nothing and jacks up the pricing by a few thousand dollars. Ride Safe
Never try to buy a HD in the Seattle area ,,5 dealers all playing the game you talk about. High Desert Harley Davidson, Boise ID is pretty good
Thanks for the tip. Ride Safe
I have bought 4 new harleys. My experience I never had a problem talking OTD price its the only number I talk. One time my wife called the same dealer same salesman and he quoted 1k less on the new bike and 1k more on the trade in over the phone on the same day I talked to him in person. Told her take the deal we went down and bought on those terms. In my mind it showed what a game they can play.
There should not be a game. Just hang the REAL prices on the bikes, and they would sell more. Remember the loaf of bread from my video? We all pay the same price and get the same deal. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider Sales of this tuoe unfortunately will not be bread. You know the real one you got to watch out for is if you're financing or talking to that Finance person they're the ones that'll get you. That is why I feel very important to talk otd.
I am glad that there are no dealer markups at Harley dealers in my country. The stupendous road tax (around 25-30%) however makes up for it
I wish this was the same in the USA. Ride Safe
If you were at a dealer and you were interested in a 2024 HD Fatboy and the MSRP is $21.999 and seeing as the 2025s are coming out now,what would you want to pay for that bike?
A couple years ago…I stopped into my local harley dealer…sat on a bunch of bikes…may have bought a new bike…when the “owner” / salesman asked if I had a 8:23 trade in…yup…2006 softail deluxe…low miles/nearly immaculate…what if I wanted to bring in the bike for a primary chain/drive belt maintenance…the dealer/owner said that they do not usually work on bikes that old…hmmm…walked out and never have gone back…
I feel if the Harley name is on the bike, they should work on them. From what I understand the reason they don't is because the new techs are not trained on anything older than 5 years. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider
Had a similar issue with a Ducati dealer north of Denver…would not work on my 2000 996S #214…but a race-shop in Boulder that specialized in Ducati’s worked on the bike…great guys, lots of knowledge.’
Plenty of other dealers and brands. You can always get something else to cover the HD Tattoos.
Lucky for me, I never got a Harley tattoo. Ride Safe
Harley lost me forever. Was looking to replace my 2012 ultra limited. New one, msrp 33k, after taxes, mark-up, b.s. fees, it was over 42k. I walked and bought a new 6-speed Goldwing for 11k less. I absolutely love it.
Just not worth the money. Ride Safe
@HarleyDayRider For sure. On that bike, my wife is usually with me. Have a wonderful, safe summer!!!
No tags on most dealers in the Orlando area. That’s why , I search Facebook marketplace and Craigslist. Looking for deals.
Best way to buy. Ride Safe
I ride an '02 RK and a '17 Ultra, both bought new, and I seek out independent service shops and online retailers for most all my needs. As last resort I go to a HD dealership. I'm fine not riding the latest Harley, I can wait several years to buy another. My HD dealership experience hasn't been a good one. A dealership is the last place I shop for repairs, parts, accessorizes, and clothing. We all know the HD brand is an overpriced scam and we're all suckers. Bikers shouldn't be suckers, so stop it.
The logo is, I guess King! If it were me I would sell all my clothing lower so that I could have free advertising of the brand. But I am not a retail guy. I agree with waiting. Ride Safe
Having listened to you, why would anyone want want to experience the headache of buying a Harley ? Or put up with a warrenty that the dealer sold you but won't honor ? Or a corporation that doesn't care that the rider is getting ripped off price wise ? The mystery of Harley is why would anybody want to go through that experience . 🤔
I think it is the brand name. Many people hear you are riding a motorcycle, and they ask which Harley you have. Ride Safe
The dealer in the UK i used didnt take the piss. Bike's on the floor had the OTD price on them. He told H D to stuff it when they wanted him to spend a fortune on a new/upgrade shop. HD had given each dealer in the UK a bike that was a limited edition. So if there's 20 UK dealers then 20 Bike's. He had FOUR in his show room as some dealers couldn't sell them in the time frame before they had to pay H D for the bike.
He was one of the few that paid up front.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing this story. Ride Safe
Harley needs to recognize that soon the loyal generation of guys that will blindly buy their overpriced motorcycles will age out of buying new bikes.
If they don’t make a significant pivot in the next couple years, they will be doomed by younger riders that Will not buy a motorcycle with ancient designd and outdated tech solely because ‘Merica!
I agree I am one of those aging riders. Of course I have bought other brands. Ride Safe
My Harley was the 2001 model the parts guy at the dealer in Golden laughed in my face when I asked for a new set of throttle cables he said the model was too old to service
Of course. They want you to buy a new bike. Ride Safe
I agree with your passion, thank you for helping us to not get ripped off💐
Thanks for the kind comment. I hope it helps. Ride Safe
Have had a 2007 fltr. 2010 street glide. I now ride a 2005 flhtci which was my fathers. I love it nice smooth running 1450 no sensors and that classic look. No new Harley's for me too much $
Way over priced unless you are buying an Indian which is also overpriced. Ride Safe
My 1978 Low Rider has been parked in my house as art work. My big flat twin is so so smooth and quiet
Nice to have art work as a bike. Cool. Yes, the bigger the engine, the smoother the ride. Ride Safe
Yea, the whole “what payment do you want” pissed me off. WHAT IS THE INTEREST RATE? That is the most important aspect of whether I am going to use your financing or not. Last time I got a good manager who told me the best price and called HDFS to try to get a better deal. He got me 0.1% interest for 36 months, so I took his financing. But that is not unique to Harley. I have had the same “here is the monthly price” game at Triumph, BMW, Honda, and Indian dealers. - I am in the US.
The dealers have a lot of wiggle room with the interest rate. I usually go to another place for my loans. Thanks for watching.
My experience is you need to have a starting block with your dealership. My wife and I did that and since then we've bought 6 bikes from them all hassle free and would never go anywhere else, just our experience though.
I agree!!! If HD says msrp is $29,999 + 2k for special paint... don't show me a paper that says $40,500...shame shame Pensacola HD
I feel this is just how they sell bikes. It is bad for us and great for the dealers bottom line. Ride Safe
I dont think some dealers are crushing the brand on purpose...but some dealers maybe doing it unintentionally....the #1 difference between dealers....doesnt matter if its Honda...Harley...suzuki...GMC...Ford...Dodge....the #1 thing that will make or break a dealer is management!!...I recently bought a new truck from a Ford dealer I used years ago and had a horrible experience...I went back a couple months ago...new management....completely different experience...they were awesome!!...great video...thanks for sharing...stay safe out there!!!😎👍🤙👍🤙🇨🇦
I feel the same way. But why can't the dealers just sell you a bike and make it enjoyable so you will spread the word? Ride Safe
Thanks for sharing this perspective Jack. Ride safe and enjoy. ✌️👍👊
Thanks for the support. Ride Safe