*The College of Winterhold:* "Oh, you can cast three spells? Welcome to the college!" *The Arcane University:* "Oh, you've gotten a recommendation from the Mage's Guild chapter in EVERY major city? Welcome to the fUCKING WAR."
Well at least with the College it makes sense, you are an Apprentice, you should only need to show that you have some promise with magic, and the College is the only actual institution of magic in Skyrim. The University on the other hand is the surrounded by smaller chapters who all independently practice magic, it only makes sense for them to decide "I only want the best to join our ranks."
@@gaminreasons8941 you’re a part of the mages guild when you join a chapter, you only become a member of the university if you have proven yourself, so yea they do take on apprenticeships in oblivion. Even setting aside the difference of circumstances between the AU and CW, CW had a shit quest line point blank and the recommendations quests are all pretty much better than any of CWs quests. You can choose to like what you want but Skyrim’s quests are pretty bad as a whole but had better combat(excluding master magic/crafted spells) but oblivion was a much better RPG.
@@andrescrespo2514 I didn't say that Oblivion didn't do apprenticeships. I was just putting context for why the College has less strict requirements to join than the University, and why the University had more strict standards. I'm not really interested in arguing with you. Especially when you sugar coat "oh you can like what you want but obviously Skyrim sucks at what matters." I'd rather you be straight with me.
@@codg808 Redfall is being developed by Arkane, published by Bethesda, has jack shit to do with TES, and comes out next year. Redfall was also always a fucking trash theory for what TES6 is called and what it's about.
@@JayDee-gz6xl Starfield was a completely new series for Bethesda, while TES is their biggest and best selling, and arguably, the face of the developer. Knowing how Skyrim was received and how timeless it is to this day, I have no doubt that TES 6 is going to be one of the biggest and most fleshed out games in gaming history. It will be talked about and played for decades. Worst case scenario, TES 6 will just be slightly better than Skyrim but still an enjoyable experience. Don't be so pessimistic about something Bethesda is well aware of the high expectations for
@@bandawin18 i will be pessemistic as their games have bee continuously more soulless since morrowind. And starfield takes the cake, what a vapid, boring game. Really looks like fallout 5 if it has all originality and soul sucked out of it.
@@JayDee-gz6xlYeah I couldnt even run starfield even though I have like 360+ mods and get a consistent 60 fps on skyrim. I dunno if Tods gonna be involved in elder scrolls six but I really hope he isnt
Thanks for the upload. Team Oblivion all the way. You get recognized so much more in Oblivion when you complete quests. People praising your feet as the Hero of Kvatch plus sooooo much more. While in Skyrim? It's like you get coupons. The least Skyrim could have given us Alduin's Shout, but no it was "Go to heaven and fight another dragon battle." Ehhhhhhhh. I have so much to say in regards to Oblivion over Skyrim. I would make a list if I could.
I feel that. Main story ending was so much better in Oblivion IMO. Martin destroying the amulet of kings, turning into an avatar of akatosh, and throwing hands with mehrunes dagon. Then Skyrim, where you have yet another dragon fight, with what amounts to three copies of the player character.
Shivering Isles is the best DLC, possibly ever. Just imagine that world with Skyrim graphics and environment. it was already beautiful with just Oblivion graphics
You don’t have to imagine it. The graphics mods for Oblivion are actually incredibly impressive. Add a mod that removes level scaling (easily the worst part of Oblivion) and the game feels surprisingly good.
Ahhh... Now that would truly be a sight to behold... At least if you have eyes that is... Alas some may never see such a thing... I know what your thinking... Your thinking because I'll pluck out their eyeballs aren't you now??? Well it's true I do love to do that.... Along with skipping rope with ones entrails and even dropping one from unfathomable heights for attempting to grow a finer beard than yours truly, but no... Nooo Me, myself and I and perhaps you as well, will have to wait and see what the next chapter brings... What's it called again Haskill??? Elderly squirrels... Oh Ha!!! What I meant to say was Elder Scrolls six... That I suppose makes more sense than six elderly squirrels HA HA HA!!!
I think skill levels should be for incremental increases. None of this "Deal 10% more damage", "This spell can be used on higher level enemies", or "10% better at sneaking" crap. Tie that stuff into skill level, and use perks for things that add to your gameplay. Like shield charge, bribing guards, executing knocked down opponents, shock spells stunning enemies.
Exactly this. The skill seemed to do virtually nothing. Like going form 10 to 100 in one handed barely edged up your damage, only the perks had an effect. The skill in itself should increase the core function of the skill. Perks should just be for interesting things that add or change your game play.
There was real potential there with speechcraft and musical instruments. A musical quest in each city. Putting together a band could have been an epic quest. Accidentally ruining a child's birthday party, being paid to musically harass someone, or being paid to spy on someone at a tavern. How about being sent to a manor to play one last song for an old dying woman, only to find out she is a serial killer in a house of horrors?
It would've been so cool if joining the Bards college allowed us to play instruments. Singing is obviously too much since your character has no voice, but playing instruments would've been cool.
Given the implications that the game was rushed for the holidays, I think the Bard's College was meant to be a fully-fledged faction at one point, but got cut due to time constraints, with those four quests being all that was actually finished.
Skyrim was my first Elder Scrolls. I found myself going deeper and deeper and deeper into a random dungeon until I found myself in Blackreach. I was OMFG how big is this game. I really really liked Skyrim but when descended into Blackreach I fell in love with Elder Scrolls.
Oblivion gang all the way. Oblivion came with my 360. Never played it until I moved in 5th grade and played it because I didn't know anybody at school. Oblivion is how I made my best friend till this day. He would come over after school and we would play Oblivion.
You know, in the next elder scrolls game for each faction after you complete a fighter guild or companions ect. I would like to see two things. 1. If certain conditions are not met, when they choose a new guild leader they pick someone else because of your actions. And 2. When you do become a guild leader, you can decline it and choose between a list of npcs and nominate them as guild leader. I think it would be best if BOTH of these were implemented. I think it would add even more replay value.
I think Oblivion is generally better written than Skyrim, but it's overrated. It's only a small margin. There's lots of great quests in Skyrim, too. And I want you to know that I played Oblivion first (!)
@@molsy1768 for the most part no, but don't judge all the Quests just because some were bad. If only half the fruit is rotten, then the other half is still fresh and juicy, like my pineapple🍍 Besides, Skyrim has plenty of awesome side quests, and both Dawnguard and Dragonborn are excellent questlines😍
With Morrowind. I loved the dice role mechanics once I got used to them, and the deep faction lore and political implications that you might be unaware of that could completely alter the course of your game. The more interesting environment argument absolutely goes to Morrowind to me.
Morrowind would probably be a clear winner in many categories if it was added to this debate. The only improvement of Skyrim was combat and it was at the cost of magic. I hope in TES 6 magic is given freedom again.
From Morrowind to Skyrim the games have shifted from proritising immersion to prioritising gameplay. In Morrowind you are only as good at fighting as your stats allow you to be. You can't beat a hard dungeon level 1 just by skillfully avoiding enemies because why could you, you aren't fast enough. (Unless high) In Skyrim on the other hand, from the start of the game you could pretty much beat whatever that doesn't regen to quickly. You just need to play well. Morrowind rewards a skilled character and Skyrim rewards a skilled player. Then ofcourse we have the problem of Skyrim just being easy, but hey there are difficulity settings so...
@@ltloxa1159 yeah that’s true. My main focus on this issue is the idea of building your character is a lot more focused in Morrowind. In Skyrim, you can literally change your entire character by using the legendary skill system. It’s awesome, but completely less true to RPG’s than Morrowind. I just prefer the earlier games, and would like to see them revert to more immersion.
I like what ESO did with the items, you can add a type to it when you make it so a simple steel sword kind of becomes 9 (or however many races) different designs
I feel like attributes diversify separate playthroughs (different race using the same skill behaves differently), while perks diversify a singular playthrough (any race using the same skill feels different by the end compared to in the beginning). Thus, I think they are both highly important.
This. I feel like it's the wrong idea to debate which one to put in over another because they SHOULD go hand in hand. I never understood why both can't be done at once easily.
It worked it Fallout 3 & NV. SPECIAL is like Skills, Skills are like Attributes, & Perks are Perks. At certain skill levels you can do certain skill checks, & perks just add extra customization for the character. If they added a system similar to that in Elder Scrolls, it could work out. But seeing how Fallout 4 went, it took the same route as Skyrim did with simplifying the leveling system.
Two of my favorite masochistic quests of any game, were the Corprusarium in Morrowind, and Addiction in Oblivion. Having those character de-buffs was a real challenge, more-so in Morrowind. I just felt like Skyrim didn’t give me the challenge I was looking for, but I do love the game. I think I’ve bought it four damn times now. Yeah…. 4 times, bought it on disc for the 360, on disc for the Xbox one, special edition digital, and Nintendo switch.
I love Oblivion more for quest lines and characters but one thing Skyrim has going for it is it’s accessibility. It’s very easy to level up badly in Oblivion but Skyrim is a lot more forgiving for new time players.
RPGs should be punishing though dude it makes way more of an impact on you and is more satisfying. When I was a kid and got vampirism in Oblivion and had to creep through the woods getting a cure it was intense man. If Oblivion allowed you to kill mainline quest people it would've been sooooo good.
I've done several playthroughs of both. I replayed Skyrim to use the cheaty sploity stuff and zoink the game. I replayed Oblivion as different characters, making different choices, using different skills and builds, learning different play styles, exploring different quests first, etc. And yeah, I got punished for not paying attention on my first play through.
The coolest thing about oblivion was the roleplaying enabling class, and the fact that attributes were attached to skills and those skill starting valueswould be different for each race. Ex. Unarmed etc, atheletics.
Love skyrim but oblivion takes first place due to having an actual unarmed skill and the ability to create spells, along with spell casting while having a sword and shield equipped. You could also run extremely fast and jump on the surface of water which never gets old.
Don't forget the depth of interaction as well as the overall quality of quests. Skyrim had better Daedric Prince quests but aside from that Oblivion all day
omg the water jump. with the deadly reflex mod and high acrobatics, i once managed to pull off some crazy shit where i jumped from the center of a water way, decapitated a highwayman as i landed. took his bow, looked up and saw a legionary running at me (i was wanted) and fired ....shattering the skull of the legionary. all told, the whole thing played out in about 5 sec. damn i miss acrobatics.
1.Spellcasting not ocupying your slots is wrong. Pure mage builds just don't feel right because you could be using a bow for a further damage increase but you are doing a spells only playthrough. 2.I wouldn't have anything to say about the unnarmed skill (besides that it doesn't make sense)but seeing that as a khajit you basically have a daedric sword right at the start of the game breaks the progresion. 3.I agree that being sonic and jesus at the same time is fun but it doesn't make sense and you could see how having super speed would make kiting extremely easy(you could just circle your enemy and deal damage or avoid any kind of ranged attack by just running).
I definitely preferred Oblivion's faction quest lines and rank structure simply because, as you guys touched on, there was WAY more of a sense of working your way up and earning your spot at the top over time.
Through the view of an enantiomorph, Oblivion has a more interesting main quest. You’re not the chosen hero, your the observer/hero’s companion. Martin is the main hero/rebel. Very unique for an Elder Scrolls main quest.
@@CyberController- I didn’t necessarily mean better, just more interesting. Some people might not find being the side character as good, but to me Skyrim is the video game version of the “and everybody clapped” meme. You become the hero of Skyrim and the world, the thane of every town, the guild master of every guild, and the final Dragonborn. I will say the Skyrim prophecy making you the main character is better than Oblivion’s “I saw you in my dream!” I love both games, and the fact that their storylines are vastly different helps.
@@CyberController- Based on Oblivion VS Skyrim, yes the one that follows the "side character" really is better. I mean would you rather play Martin and read books all day? Cause that is what the "main character" of this story does. Pretty sure it would be not at all what anyone wanted from an Elder Scrolls. Sit in a room and wait for your lackey to drop off some books. Pretty damn happy I got to play the lackey instead. Edit: It is all about how you tell the story and what the story is. Don't write things off out of hand with blanket statements. You will miss out on a lot of media you might have enjoyed.
@@Michael-bn1oi When you stop to think about it, how Oblivion treats its chosen one is arguably more realistic than how Skyrim treats its chosen one. As opposed to constantly risking his life, and thus the fate of the world, Martin remains behind closed, heavily guarded doors doing the important stuff, while the grunt work is given to other, more expendable lives (in this case, the PC).
If they make staves actually function like mage weapons and not just free magic casting sticks, I would like to see those as equippable "mage weapons" that boost the effect of spells depending on the staff you have equipped, or boosting all magic while it is equipped with a certain school being more boosted.
I 2nd this. Assuming it was tied to how oblivions magic is. Then the staffs could work as a minor boost to damage and large magicka cost reduction based on the school of magic. This would be nice because your casting as a battle mages (with a 2 hander weapon) will be more of a jack of all trades. And with the staff its the master of one. Ya know?
I played Skyrim first. Loved it. Was the first video game like that I'd played in years. Then I played Oblivion, and it kind of opened my eyes to how much Skyrim lacked for writing. But then I played Morrowind. At a good age, in my 20's. People arent lying when they say, less is more in Morrowind. Voice acting all the lines really limited Bethesda in terms of development. That point about swapping the two on the timeline was very interesting, I do think the situation would have been better if they had beenbreversed.
I played Oblivion fully, properly and completely for the first time last year. Honestly they did so much right. The art style stood out immediately, i way prefer the weapons and armour. Skyrim weapons are all so big, i end up rolling with a custom Blades sword because it's the only good thin sword in Skyrim. Same with armour, i love the Daedric armour in Oblivion vs the set in Skyrim. Glass is better in Skyrim. Shoutout to Smithing too, i love crafting my top tier armour. The levelling system in Skyrim is objectively easier to use. I don't think that makes it better though. I preferred having skills both major and minor which are governed by my attributes. Its worth mentioning the level scaling in Oblivion sucks, imo you can have all 100 stats and still get wrecked which is not desirable. I prefer enchanting and alchemy in Skyrim for obvious exploity reasons. I preferred Oblivions magic schools and combat skills though, Skyrim feels like it's missing half of them. The guilds in Oblivion are incredible. As someone who had only played Skyrim i was blown away by the mage guild recommendation quests. I was also impressed by the fighters guild considering The Companions are their inferior replacement, seeing the hist tree was very interesting. Oblivions Dark Brotherhood are obviously superior, literally no competition. I actually think the main quests are similar in some ways. Both the Oblivion gates and dragons are super inconvenient after your first 2 hours, I prefer that the gate has a whole interior cell filled with towers, loot, enemies and a sigil stone. Bethesda themselves, Todd specifically, have mentioned how Oblivion was Bethesdas last hope when it released, they put everything into it and you can tell. Skyrim feels rushed and streamlined in comparison, which is not what i want for ES6. Edit: I was mistaken, it was in fact Morrowind that was Bethesda's last hope. However that doesn't change my sentiment. I still think Skyrim felt rushed and streamlined when compared with Oblivion, which i will reaffirm is not what i want for ES6. Thanks Anonymous User.
Skyrim will always be my favorite, but let's not forget Morrowind brought me into the fold. The intro to Oblivion I will say is much more heartfelt, including Sir Patrick Stewart's monolog. Honestly though to really choose between skyrim and oblivion is like trying to choose your favorite child. Their uniqueness is what make them different, but you love them both equally.
I really enjoy both games but.... Honestly if u point me in the head with a gun and force me to choose between the two Skyrim or Oblivion to play for the rest of my life (without mods, just vanilla) I will choose skyrim with no hesitation
Hey guys! Amazing episode again. I've been diagnosed w cancer and starting treatment again soon, after already a shitty covid time and these podcast are pretty much the highlight of my relaxation times when I can have them, much love for putting one out so often. Maybe fun idea for one would be a small challenge between the 3 of you coming up with your ideal elder scrolls 6 game. A name, location, main plotline and like a giant new feature. And then us fans can decide which one was best. Much love and carry on!
~36:30 Hey guys I miss the fact that in Morrowind one could be an actual mage by recharging magical items by sleeping and literally recharging your batteries, but in Oblivion and Skyrim either pay a real mage to recharge it or use soul gem technology. Very sad :(
I'm honestly in the middle of my first playthrough of Morrowind rn and I had no idea this was a thing, I've always just spammed Azura's star. I ran into Umbra while exploring at like level 7 and immediately cheesed him so I never had any shortage of soul access. This is awesome to know if I do a second playthrough that's a little less exploity
Michael's right about the bards college quest, at the bottom of the dungeon where you retrieve Olaf's Verse the final door can only be opened by the ghost of the bard who kept trying to expose Olaf, and the ghost only spawns when doing the quest to prevent you from stumbling upon the dungeon early and clearing it out before doing the bards college. In order to open it you had to go all the way to the bottom of the dungeon and find the bard's skeleton where his ghost is waiting, upon doing so the ghost reappears at the front of the door waiting for you to approach and when you do he removes the magical ward keeping it locked, problem is sometimes either the ghost just wont appear in front of the door after you find him or when he removes the magical ward the animation plays and he walks through but the door just doesnt open, meaning you cant complete the quest, and you have to reload to a save before the dungeon and do it all again and hope it doesnt glitch that time, Ive had it happen like twice its kinda annoying
Morrowind kid here. Found the Game of the Year addition when I was visiting some family, and had to wait a week to play it. Drove me insane. Edit: I’ve played it infinitely throughout the years, and I still find new stuff. Yeah there are some problems, I.e. game breaking NPC deaths and stuff. But the role playing aspects haven’t been matched since.
Oblivion’s towns felt like people lived in them. Skyrim had too few people living in some towns to be believable. Wasn’t the series’ original title “live another life in another world”
One thing I really liked about the Oblivion's main story that Skyrim was missing was how it forced you to do a daedric quest. You can complete Skyrim's story and never once encounter a single daedra and I feel like could cause people to miss out
I like the side quest in cheydenhal where the dark elf gets trapped in his painting and you have to go inside the painting to save him and to defeat the painted trolls you had to use turpintine
Just getting a comment in before this starts. I played Oblivion first, and overall I have probably more hours in Oblivion than I do Skyrim. I have so many memories from it, the music, the adventures, the mystery. It was really my first experience of an Elder Scrolls game. So for me, Oblivion is my winner. However, I think Skyrim is the better game with the better mechanics and design. But really I love them both.
My college friends and I have made our own RPG based off of D&D 5E and Star Wars Roleplaying Game from FFG, and we are currently running a Cyrodiil-based campaign. It's super fun to base the setting on post-Skyrim civil war Cyrodiil, but fleshing it out with the lore that was missing from Oblivion. We have spellcrafting, enchanting, skill points, feat-like "talents" that unlock new mechanics/capabilities, quite powerful unique racial abilities, etc., all things you guys were talking about in this comparison video, so it's good to know we nailed a lot of the features you identified as important to a good RPG.
Scott, Drew, Michael, et al. How about a leveling system that has all 3: attributes, skills, and perks? You practice skills. When you level up from skill practice, the governing attribute gets automatically increased. Perks would fall under an attribute. Attributes would govern max health, magicka, fatigue/stamina. For example, you practice sword fighting (blade/1-handed), get better at the skill, you also get stronger as a result (strength). Now with that progression, you learn a new ability from that insight (dual flurry). Like in real life. Just an idea off the cuff, obviously would need refining.
Im with Scott here, i´d like to see some attributes for the different races, it makes no sense that an Orc does the same damage with a sword as a Breton would, or that same Orc has the same amount of magicka as the Breton and both doing the same damage with the same spell. But i have to also agree with Michael, the core gameplay combatwise is totally fine. I never had the feeling while playing the game, that the attributes are missing, it only comes to my mind when not playing, or when theory crafting. My perfect Elder Scrolls 6 would be a fusion of Skyrim (gameplay and world), Oblivion (fixed level- and attribute system) and Witcher (story and quests).
I remember the first time I saw my friend play Oblivion, he told me that he become a vampire after randomly fighting one in a cave. And he explained all the effects that came with it. I was amazed at the depth that an rpg on the xbox could have. So when skyrim came out I bought it, and I was slightly dissapointed that the depth of gameplay wasn't there from the older games. I have still put in hundreds of hours into Skyrim though. It is a hard call, I almost feel like they are two seperate game series.
Ebonheart is actaully the main Imperial base on Vvardenfell, and the main trading hub, containing embassies for all the provinces, and it's the seat of the Head Governor and King. So not really a fort, but yeah.
I hope the next TES gives us the option to choose between manually equipping magic to a specific hand for a dedicated but more powerful spell casting hand, or the Oblivion style where you quick-cast spells even while using 2-handed weapons, but weaker spells.
8:10 I really likes how yall talked about the setting and world to skyrims story At the same time I personally felt like those places and quests had minimal impact. Like the peace treaty and the thalmor embassy were extremely underwhelming
Yeah, although there were no Snow Elf ruins in base game Skyrim, so I'm not sure what they meant by the "expanding" on the Falmer ruins when really, there weren't any beforehand
@@onyx2186 I know they're Canon, but what I mean by "base game" was the original content before the DLC. I know it's Canon but we also have to take into account the development of said Canon. A boring, less exciting answer is that the Nords somehow managed to tear down every single piece of evidence of Falmer civilization... that and the Snow Elves were an afterthought, they were never planned out till the Dawnguard DLC, and by then, they didn't have any special places to put any Falmer Ruins, aside from a whole Forgotten Vale, a place you'd never be able to ever see unless you get the DLC. I know it's confusing, but I'm trying to say that originally, Snow Elves weren't really an idea or planned out till the DLC, which is likely the actual, out-of-universe reason for lack of any ruins at all.
I remember playing oblivion for the first time. A heavy armored sword and shield using imperial. Baurus and Martin were my best friends and drinking buddies and I recall being very upset when Martin died.
That would be VERY doable if they rip out all the "Boost X dmg" type perks and just keep those things relegated to attributes. As for the perks, things LIKE shield charge, Silent Casting or even conditioning could be perk points.
Oblivion just has so much personality. Sometimes it can be super goofy but then I still remember the first time a troll came running at me and it scared the shit out of me
@@Lucas11061 Knights. Dawnguard had cool elements but application felt eh. Dragonborn I was happy going to Solstheim but I _hated_ the actual storyline. Like I go there but I do nothing but sidequests or exploring on my own the entire time - Miraak and Mora are so painfully dull I just let them do whatever so long as im not involved. Kinda like the rest of Skyrim. Storyline: flatline. I haven't touched guilds since my first playthrough back when I first got it in like 2010; it's like walking through oatmeal.
Really nice change of pace to hear you guys focus so much on elder scrolls as video games and take a little breather from being entirely lore centric. This was really fun!
I'd say that Oblivion definitely has way better storytelling, questing, guilds and cities, which in a way made the world feel more immersive and believable. Whereas Skyrim has better world building and world design. The thing that makes Oblivion win it for me, is that it doesn't feel scripted. Skyrim literally throws both side quests and locations in your face all the time - it's so afraid of that you might miss something. While in oblivion you will miss a huuge chunk of the content by not actively exploring untraveled areas.
Lol. It was Morrowind that taught me to quicksave before opening any door. 'Cause the game would autosave after it loaded you on the other side of the door. The door could be a 1-way door that planted you where you had literally no chance of survival.
@@shadowdragon714 yeah but it should be a lot more unpredictable in my opinion. It should form around challenging your particular play style…. Per-character.
The immersion of morrowind is second to none for one reason, true exploration. I loved being told “walk this way until you see c landmark and then head east until you see x landmark.” It forced you to truly learn the landscape and learn to move around the world. Not only that, but this made you feel like a true explorer. Please give us a morrowind remake.
Oblivion’s combat system was better you were able to have a shield and a sword or 2 handed weapon and cast spells with out having to put them away to use magic
See, you haven't acctually said why it was better, only that it was different. Remove the word "better" from your comment and replace it with "worse" and it would make just as much sense, or maybe slightly slightly more.
@@ltloxa1159 Its better because skyrims magic blows, its horribly uncreative and locking. Oblivion breaks the monotony of swishing your blade 300× by having you unlock new strikes and etc. Which to be fair Skyrim sort of has as well but to a lesser extent. Diversing weapon types makes it seem like there are actual differences in the weapons you use, as oppose to skyrim where its one handed, or two handed
What I miss the most in Skyrim is the spellcasting. I can't count how many times I change from spell back to weapon to healing ect in Skyrim while in Oblivion it was so organic and flowy to have a healing spell and a shield on the left and weapon and fireball on the right. Miss that so much in Skyrim, shields feels useless and just in the way 😢
Attribute vs Perks: -Attributes give you a way better sense of progression and enhance the "journey" of building your character, but in an incremental sense. They leave more room for optimisation, but after figuring out the math, they kind of leave you with an ideal distribution for each archetype of a character. -Perks on the other hand give you these "spikes", where you're working towards them and each of the good ones give you a better/new way to play the game, and enhance the gameplay at these breakpoints, so it's more about the goal rather than the journey. If I had to choose, I'd pick perks over attributes, because attributes are essentially just stat changes and have little impact on the gameplay, whereas perks change/spice up gameplay and break up the monotony. But, if you were allowed to "hide" perks behind stat requirements on weapons and armour (like using this item lets you use the shield charge, for example), I'd favour attributes. And it's honestly not uncommon to have "perks" (which are often known as "skills" in other games) locked in other areas of the game, because let's face it, an RPG without skill points but with attribute points would be quite boring, so they're always incorporated in one form or another.
I do love Skyrim but I think Oblivion did do better the quests, the factions, the lore Skyrim is still great and I have played it more but oblivion just has something Skyrim was missing
I would argue that oblivion has perks. being able to Jump off the surface of the water at certain thresholds and other stuff at apprentice journeyman expert and master. I’m fairly certain that every skill had something at each rank.
I think oblivion's just a lot better due to the guilds and the arena I know a lot of people say it's repetitive but I love it honestly. I don't know on Skyrim just doesn't really feel earned when you become the leader of that certain guild you do like two quests in your automatically you're an important role I just don't like that
Guilds are definitly the one thing Oblivion did better. Also I guess leveling how fast you move and such is neat. But that just kinda comes down to how long you've played that character, so I guess what I really like are enchantments/potions effecting it.
I recently replayed oblivion and the arena was VERY immersive. I loved it. Getting a rundown before every match. Some of those matches are actually difficult too. It was quite the challenge. Especially at lvl 1-5
Just got the game, and went to arena first thing I did. Didn't have to leave the imperial city to beat it, so while it was fun I certainly don't agree about the difficulity.
@@ltloxa1159 idk if touched the difficulty slider or not but mine was about 3/4ths full. Instead of the default 1/2. I really needed potions and conjure skeletons to do it.
Block once, run around the enemy and spam atack. Sometimes you can get a dozen hits before you have to block again. If there are multiple enemies you can make them get stuck close to the doors and take them one after the other.
I think this podcast poses the ultimate question. Should Elder scrolls games be made as action games or role playing games? What do we enjoy more about the series? For me personally, I love the role playing aspect of the elder scrolls series. The ability to get lost in the different worlds and areas of the Elder Scrolls series really appeals to me. Immersion is what makes the elder scrolls great and I think it’s the main reason people are turned on to the games.
Attributes ARE better than perks. if i put my lvl up point into strength, that effects a wide variety of skills; i do more dmg, now i can carry more, and Jump higher. its much more reflective that my character is growing in physical prowess. if i put it into Agility, i can sneak more easily, i'll be slightly better with a bow ect. its a more holistic and natural feeling progression.
Honestly, I find that the people who argue for perks over attributes is just a symptom of 2 different kinds of RPGs clashing. Personally I agree with Scott, but only in regards to Morrowind. I personally feel like Morrowind had a better attribute system than Oblivion. It does make your character feel better. I completely disagree with Michael saying that personality and luck don't add to a character. That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard any of them say
Something I notice( I know the video is 5months old) that none really speaks on enough is how unbalanced the quests are dialogue wise, think about how not only rushed Skyrim quests are but how the dialogue leaves no room to train before the next quest. Like Winter hold you learn one spell to get in and one ward spell then boom you're in a dungeon with your teacher then boom you're in charge with the fate of the world and there's no prep period which leads you fighting dwarven bots in less than an hour lol. I wish there was a way to at least get into a training arc vs just naw you're OBVIOUSLY strong enough to take on this task after 3 days.
Skyrim combat improvements (non magic) are pretty surface level honestly. In oblivion you had to think about managing your fatigue, when you had openings for power attacks, weapon reach, movement speed, and playing around the chance of being staggered. Even though it feels worse a lot of the time, I find I have to think about it a lot more than I do in Skyrim.
I'm late but, Oblivion also let you attack in the air whether with your bow, magic, or melee weapons. To me this was a huge letdown in Skyrim that even barely leaving the ground stopped attacks from starting. This includes when you drop a tiny bit when walking down some rough rocks. To me that is nearly an unforgivable change.
@@cxx23 Definitely, Skyrim combat only really works if you're playing the way Todd intended, brain-off in awe of the world. When you try to experiment you quickly see how limited it is.
@@chrisbenson6753 Truth. I went from Skyrik to Oblivion myself and I fell in love with Oblivions combat. The fact that I could run at an enemy, jump into the air and shoot an arrow as I fly over them and attack the next guy was just fantastic.
Honestly, replaying Oblivion right now and it does hit harder. I probably put way more time into Skyrim but replaying Oblivion, i get more from the story, fast traveling to a city and then exploring its outskirts, playing a battle mage build, and the biggest thing for me is when im sitting there playing through an Oblivion gate, I do feel way more challenged than I did as the all powerful Dragonborn. I love them both and it is subjective but..Oblivion hits different on replays.
Regarding the perks aspect. A lot of the perks in skyrim were either just increasing defense/damage/improving mini game's difficulty. Which was what your skill level did in Oblivion anyway. If you stripped Skyrim of all boring perks there wouldn't be many.
A new saga they decided not to continue it for some reason considering 10 years later and Skyrim is still the last game in the franchise in terms of timeline...
Hi, HEMA practitioner here. Just wanted to weigh in on the Blade/Blunt vs One-Handed/Two-Handed debate. In terms of actual martial arts, both the type of weapon and the size of the weapon impact its usability obviously. But in terms of how drastically your technique needs to change to accommodate a new weapon, I'm with Scott. The difference in technique when switching from a longsword used with both hands to a one handed arming sword is nowhere near the difference between switching from a two handed longsword to a two handed Dane axe. A double edged cruciform sword has similar enough mechanics when wielded with one or two hands, disregarding specific cuts or techniques. Whereas swords and axes are completely different. The balance is different, with swords weighted towards the hilt and axes weighted at the head. The striking area is larger on a sword than an axe. Axes are generally more effective at delivering massive damage, but to a smaller area and require more precision in spite of the common idea of them being tools for barbarians. Because if you don't hit with the sweet spot for your particular sword, sure it doesn't cut as deep but it will still cut. If you miss with the head of your axe, now you're just smacking them with a wooden stick. Ideally you'd have a combination of the sets of skills. Maybe instead of one-handed or two-handed, you have skills like Sword, Axe, and Bludgeon. And within those skills, you have trees for one-handed vs two-handed axes. One handed swords vs longsword. Maces and clubs vs Warhammers. I think that solves the problems with both systems.
Perks could be made to please both sides. Have the perk points put into a perk tree, but the points are limited to the skill, so say every 10 levels in a certain skill you get a point to put into that skill and to make it mean something its a tree and you have to pick which branch to go down, or maybe just have to use double points for another branch. Maybe keep the legendary system to regain those point and start back over. But still using double points for secandary branches.
Oblivion for me. More fantastical and had more of everything. Creature variety, spells, weapons, armor, skills etc. More intrecate decorations/designs too, more unique stuff like birthsigns vs Skyrim's "guidestones"
Giving Skyrim the "best side quests" for thinking Saadia's quest (a literal piece of ambiguity that has no impact) is better than Oblivion ones, where you had creative quest building, despite the graphics and limitations, is unfair.
37:35 except necromancy is there with all the summon ghost skeleton and zombie spells. The only thing that isn't there is the reanimated dead person spells which for the record isn't how necromancy works in the elder scrolls universe. Souls stay tethered to their body for months and years and prevent the immediate resurrection of a dead body.
*The College of Winterhold:* "Oh, you can cast three spells? Welcome to the college!"
*The Arcane University:* "Oh, you've gotten a recommendation from the Mage's Guild chapter in EVERY major city? Welcome to the fUCKING WAR."
Oʙʟɪᴠɪᴏɴ: oh you're a criminal? Take part in a contest, the best thief gets to join the guild.
Sᴋʏʀɪᴍ: yo, wanna join?
Well at least with the College it makes sense, you are an Apprentice, you should only need to show that you have some promise with magic, and the College is the only actual institution of magic in Skyrim.
The University on the other hand is the surrounded by smaller chapters who all independently practice magic, it only makes sense for them to decide "I only want the best to join our ranks."
@stopcensorship I guess?
@@gaminreasons8941 you’re a part of the mages guild when you join a chapter, you only become a member of the university if you have proven yourself, so yea they do take on apprenticeships in oblivion.
Even setting aside the difference of circumstances between the AU and CW, CW had a shit quest line point blank and the recommendations quests are all pretty much better than any of CWs quests. You can choose to like what you want but Skyrim’s quests are pretty bad as a whole but had better combat(excluding master magic/crafted spells) but oblivion was a much better RPG.
@@andrescrespo2514 I didn't say that Oblivion didn't do apprenticeships. I was just putting context for why the College has less strict requirements to join than the University, and why the University had more strict standards. I'm not really interested in arguing with you. Especially when you sugar coat "oh you can like what you want but obviously Skyrim sucks at what matters." I'd rather you be straight with me.
When it comes to DLC it clearly depends on Hearthfire vs. Horse armor. Easily the best two Elder Scrolls DLCs ever made.
Hearthfire broke the economy by breaking alchemy.
This man knows where it at xd
ESO: ....
For me it was Shivering Isles vs Dawnguard. I really loved both of those a lot.
@@Etticos. it was a joke ;p
Redguard is the best game
Lets all hope that it actually comes out
@@MostlyToastly you mean redfall right?
@@codg808 you're right i misread
I thought it was gonna be called hammerfell
@@codg808 Redfall is being developed by Arkane, published by Bethesda, has jack shit to do with TES, and comes out next year. Redfall was also always a fucking trash theory for what TES6 is called and what it's about.
Skyrim - best exploration and gameplay
Oblivion - best quests & characters
Morrowind - best writing & setting
Fingers crossed TES6 will have something special like this or find a common ground and master all of these areas
@@bandawin18 if starfield is anything to go off tes6 is gonna be soulless and behind the times in terms of technology.
@@JayDee-gz6xl Starfield was a completely new series for Bethesda, while TES is their biggest and best selling, and arguably, the face of the developer. Knowing how Skyrim was received and how timeless it is to this day, I have no doubt that TES 6 is going to be one of the biggest and most fleshed out games in gaming history. It will be talked about and played for decades. Worst case scenario, TES 6 will just be slightly better than Skyrim but still an enjoyable experience. Don't be so pessimistic about something Bethesda is well aware of the high expectations for
@@bandawin18 i will be pessemistic as their games have bee continuously more soulless since morrowind. And starfield takes the cake, what a vapid, boring game. Really looks like fallout 5 if it has all originality and soul sucked out of it.
@@JayDee-gz6xlYeah I couldnt even run starfield even though I have like 360+ mods and get a consistent 60 fps on skyrim. I dunno if Tods gonna be involved in elder scrolls six but I really hope he isnt
*becomes harbinger of the companions*
“I can’t figure out why Skjor let you in in the first place.”
I mean, you are gone from Jorvaskr all the time, you have joined several other factions and you have done nothing to deserve the place
Jokes on you, I never left! Never… just standing in the hall… forever.
@@maxteraform Unless you are staying there with your play through
@@maxteraform you do things that njada could only dream of.
Drew: Azura's really night and day.
Scott: *starts talking*
Drew: Get it...? Night and... ehem
That was painfully sad to watch. You could see him die a little inside.
@@wrenwynter9336 Drew’s sense of humor is honestly my favorite thing about the podcast
@@K_Kobe I’ve only just come to realize this as well. Drew’s subtle sense of humor is totally appreciated.
Skyrim came out around the start my Freshman year of college, and it absolutely destroyed my free time.
Same my man, same 😂
saaaaaaaaame
She's a curse, doomed to replay it every year or so. Even if it's just a sprint to the next town, the nostalgia compels.
Would you rather have:
1. Only games from 2011
2: Only games not from 2011
2011 had Skyrim, Dark Souls,, Minecrat, Portal 2....
@@ltloxa1159 2011 was a good year
.. fuck
The guild ranks should definitely come back in TES 6.
And magic crafting and the larger variety of uses for magic in morrowind.
Thanks for the upload. Team Oblivion all the way. You get recognized so much more in Oblivion when you complete quests. People praising your feet as the Hero of Kvatch plus sooooo much more. While in Skyrim? It's like you get coupons. The least Skyrim could have given us Alduin's Shout, but no it was "Go to heaven and fight another dragon battle." Ehhhhhhhh. I have so much to say in regards to Oblivion over Skyrim. I would make a list if I could.
I feel that. Main story ending was so much better in Oblivion IMO. Martin destroying the amulet of kings, turning into an avatar of akatosh, and throwing hands with mehrunes dagon. Then Skyrim, where you have yet another dragon fight, with what amounts to three copies of the player character.
Level 50 equipped with The Mace of Molag Bal and Spellbreaker fully upgraded,
Kodlak: Get rid of that garbage and get yourself some real gear.
Shivering Isles is the best DLC, possibly ever. Just imagine that world with Skyrim graphics and environment. it was already beautiful with just Oblivion graphics
But horse armor bruh
You don’t have to imagine it. The graphics mods for Oblivion are actually incredibly impressive. Add a mod that removes level scaling (easily the worst part of Oblivion) and the game feels surprisingly good.
I'm more partial to bloodmoon
Ahhh... Now that would truly be a sight to behold... At least if you have eyes that is... Alas some may never see such a thing... I know what your thinking... Your thinking because I'll pluck out their eyeballs aren't you now??? Well it's true I do love to do that.... Along with skipping rope with ones entrails and even dropping one from unfathomable heights for attempting to grow a finer beard than yours truly, but no... Nooo Me, myself and I and perhaps you as well, will have to wait and see what the next chapter brings... What's it called again Haskill??? Elderly squirrels... Oh Ha!!! What I meant to say was Elder Scrolls six... That I suppose makes more sense than six elderly squirrels HA HA HA!!!
Can't wait to see if they'll include that in Skyblivion!
I think skill levels should be for incremental increases. None of this "Deal 10% more damage", "This spell can be used on higher level enemies", or "10% better at sneaking" crap. Tie that stuff into skill level, and use perks for things that add to your gameplay. Like shield charge, bribing guards, executing knocked down opponents, shock spells stunning enemies.
So ordinator stuff?
@@CrucibleOfHate somewhat. A lot of the ordinator stuff reads like mmo cool down abilities.
Exactly this. The skill seemed to do virtually nothing. Like going form 10 to 100 in one handed barely edged up your damage, only the perks had an effect. The skill in itself should increase the core function of the skill. Perks should just be for interesting things that add or change your game play.
Yes
It should be left to having a higher level in the skill and the gear you choosr
The Bard's college quest was the stupidest thing ever. I legitimately forget that they can be joined every playthrough
I always only remember as I'm passing by the guild on my way to The Blue Palace. I always think, "Oh yeah, there's a bards guild in this game."
There was real potential there with speechcraft and musical instruments. A musical quest in each city. Putting together a band could have been an epic quest. Accidentally ruining a child's birthday party, being paid to musically harass someone, or being paid to spy on someone at a tavern. How about being sent to a manor to play one last song for an old dying woman, only to find out she is a serial killer in a house of horrors?
It would've been so cool if joining the Bards college allowed us to play instruments. Singing is obviously too much since your character has no voice, but playing instruments would've been cool.
It still blows my mind that Bethesda thought that was a good excuse for a faction
Given the implications that the game was rushed for the holidays, I think the Bard's College was meant to be a fully-fledged faction at one point, but got cut due to time constraints, with those four quests being all that was actually finished.
I love how Drew is always so quiet watching the other two argue and discuss. Then he just fact slaps.
I played everything backwards literally. Started with Skyrim. Went to daggerfall. Oblivion was the most magical for me
I went from Skyrim to Oblivion to Morrowind then DaggerFall and Arena
I went from skyrim to morrowind then oblivon
I went from Skyrim to Oblivion. I'm weary of trying the earlier games though, as I've heard their mechanics are clunky.
You need to play Morrowind
@@Goblin-King- homie I played all them 😁
Skyrim was my first Elder Scrolls. I found myself going deeper and deeper and deeper into a random dungeon until I found myself in Blackreach. I was OMFG how big is this game. I really really liked Skyrim but when descended into Blackreach I fell in love with Elder Scrolls.
Oblivion gang all the way. Oblivion came with my 360. Never played it until I moved in 5th grade and played it because I didn't know anybody at school. Oblivion is how I made my best friend till this day. He would come over after school and we would play Oblivion.
Aww that's sweet. I love how games can bring people together. 🥰
Moded Skyrim is 🐐
You know, in the next elder scrolls game for each faction after you complete a fighter guild or companions ect. I would like to see two things. 1. If certain conditions are not met, when they choose a new guild leader they pick someone else because of your actions. And 2. When you do become a guild leader, you can decline it and choose between a list of npcs and nominate them as guild leader. I think it would be best if BOTH of these were implemented. I think it would add even more replay value.
Oblivion had far better writing as far as quests go.
I think Oblivion is generally better written than Skyrim, but it's overrated. It's only a small margin. There's lots of great quests in Skyrim, too.
And I want you to know that I played Oblivion first (!)
@@juicypineapple6995 I don't know man, the guild quests in skyrim are nowhere near as good as what oblivion had.
@@molsy1768 for the most part no, but don't judge all the Quests just because some were bad. If only half the fruit is rotten, then the other half is still fresh and juicy, like my pineapple🍍
Besides, Skyrim has plenty of awesome side quests, and both Dawnguard and Dragonborn are excellent questlines😍
@@juicypineapple6995 dawnguard was unbearable for me in terms of DLC. Knights of the nine kills it.
@@SalvationIsInChristAlone you're saying you liked Kotn?
With Morrowind. I loved the dice role mechanics once I got used to them, and the deep faction lore and political implications that you might be unaware of that could completely alter the course of your game. The more interesting environment argument absolutely goes to Morrowind to me.
I completely agree, Mr. McNasty.
Morrowind would probably be a clear winner in many categories if it was added to this debate. The only improvement of Skyrim was combat and it was at the cost of magic. I hope in TES 6 magic is given freedom again.
From Morrowind to Skyrim the games have shifted from proritising immersion to prioritising gameplay.
In Morrowind you are only as good at fighting as your stats allow you to be. You can't beat a hard dungeon level 1 just by skillfully avoiding enemies because why could you, you aren't fast enough. (Unless high)
In Skyrim on the other hand, from the start of the game you could pretty much beat whatever that doesn't regen to quickly. You just need to play well.
Morrowind rewards a skilled character and Skyrim rewards a skilled player.
Then ofcourse we have the problem of Skyrim just being easy, but hey there are difficulity settings so...
@@ltloxa1159 yeah that’s true. My main focus on this issue is the idea of building your character is a lot more focused in Morrowind. In Skyrim, you can literally change your entire character by using the legendary skill system. It’s awesome, but completely less true to RPG’s than Morrowind. I just prefer the earlier games, and would like to see them revert to more immersion.
@Nolan Santelli Exactly . Though I’m sad to say that I’m not very optimistic either.
I like what ESO did with the items, you can add a type to it when you make it so a simple steel sword kind of becomes 9 (or however many races) different designs
Shivering Isles will always be my favorite bit of ES content. Unless ES6 has something that blows it out of the water.
Shivering Isles is so good that being on par with it would be an amazing feat nevermind blowing it out of the water.
32:23 "you cant beat the thief's guild without stealing" you wot mate? Ymfah has some words for you
Indeed. However, that one trespass is sad.
I feel like attributes diversify separate playthroughs (different race using the same skill behaves differently), while perks diversify a singular playthrough (any race using the same skill feels different by the end compared to in the beginning). Thus, I think they are both highly important.
This. I feel like it's the wrong idea to debate which one to put in over another because they SHOULD go hand in hand. I never understood why both can't be done at once easily.
It worked it Fallout 3 & NV. SPECIAL is like Skills, Skills are like Attributes, & Perks are Perks. At certain skill levels you can do certain skill checks, & perks just add extra customization for the character. If they added a system similar to that in Elder Scrolls, it could work out. But seeing how Fallout 4 went, it took the same route as Skyrim did with simplifying the leveling system.
Two of my favorite masochistic quests of any game, were the Corprusarium in Morrowind, and Addiction in Oblivion. Having those character de-buffs was a real challenge, more-so in Morrowind. I just felt like Skyrim didn’t give me the challenge I was looking for, but I do love the game. I think I’ve bought it four damn times now. Yeah…. 4 times, bought it on disc for the 360, on disc for the Xbox one, special edition digital, and Nintendo switch.
I knew Scott would drag the reachmen in somehow 🤣
I love Oblivion more for quest lines and characters but one thing Skyrim has going for it is it’s accessibility. It’s very easy to level up badly in Oblivion but Skyrim is a lot more forgiving for new time players.
RPGs should be punishing though dude it makes way more of an impact on you and is more satisfying. When I was a kid and got vampirism in Oblivion and had to creep through the woods getting a cure it was intense man. If Oblivion allowed you to kill mainline quest people it would've been sooooo good.
@@SaltySeaCaptain imagine if you could have showed up to kavatch and just murdered martin on the spot lmao
I've done several playthroughs of both. I replayed Skyrim to use the cheaty sploity stuff and zoink the game. I replayed Oblivion as different characters, making different choices, using different skills and builds, learning different play styles, exploring different quests first, etc. And yeah, I got punished for not paying attention on my first play through.
The coolest thing about oblivion was the roleplaying enabling class, and the fact that attributes were attached to skills and those skill starting valueswould be different for each race. Ex. Unarmed etc, atheletics.
Love skyrim but oblivion takes first place due to having an actual unarmed skill and the ability to create spells, along with spell casting while having a sword and shield equipped.
You could also run extremely fast and jump on the surface of water which never gets old.
The removal of Acrobatics is really what killed the gameplay for me, in Skyrim.
Removing unarmed was just salt in the wound.
Don't forget the depth of interaction as well as the overall quality of quests. Skyrim had better Daedric Prince quests but aside from that Oblivion all day
omg the water jump. with the deadly reflex mod and high acrobatics, i once managed to pull off some crazy shit where i jumped from the center of a water way, decapitated a highwayman as i landed. took his bow, looked up and saw a legionary running at me (i was wanted) and fired ....shattering the skull of the legionary. all told, the whole thing played out in about 5 sec. damn i miss acrobatics.
1.Spellcasting not ocupying your slots is wrong. Pure mage builds just don't feel right because you could be using a bow for a further damage increase but you are doing a spells only playthrough.
2.I wouldn't have anything to say about the unnarmed skill (besides that it doesn't make sense)but seeing that as a khajit you basically have a daedric sword right at the start of the game breaks the progresion.
3.I agree that being sonic and jesus at the same time is fun but it doesn't make sense and you could see how having super speed would make kiting extremely easy(you could just circle your enemy and deal damage or avoid any kind of ranged attack by just running).
Morrowind feels alian oblivion feels magical and skyrim feels epic.They achieve this through a combination of the landscape music and lore.
Yea epic is a problem, like you’re watching an epic marvel movie instead of a game so it gets old quickly
"Skyrim is the game that taught an entire generation to save their game before doing anything"
The virgin Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind's "Always save" versus the chad TES: Online where you just can't save (as it's an MMO).
And how to use console commands.
If it's not broken, it's not Bethesda.
@@lilacpen8678 is it being broken a pc exclusive feature 🤔
@@Saiyangoddess72 Not even close.
I definitely preferred Oblivion's faction quest lines and rank structure simply because, as you guys touched on, there was WAY more of a sense of working your way up and earning your spot at the top over time.
Through the view of an enantiomorph, Oblivion has a more interesting main quest. You’re not the chosen hero, your the observer/hero’s companion. Martin is the main hero/rebel. Very unique for an Elder Scrolls main quest.
I get what you're saying, but is a story that follows a side character really better than a story which follows the main character?
@@CyberController- I didn’t necessarily mean better, just more interesting. Some people might not find being the side character as good, but to me Skyrim is the video game version of the “and everybody clapped” meme. You become the hero of Skyrim and the world, the thane of every town, the guild master of every guild, and the final Dragonborn.
I will say the Skyrim prophecy making you the main character is better than Oblivion’s “I saw you in my dream!”
I love both games, and the fact that their storylines are vastly different helps.
@@CyberController- Based on Oblivion VS Skyrim, yes the one that follows the "side character" really is better. I mean would you rather play Martin and read books all day? Cause that is what the "main character" of this story does. Pretty sure it would be not at all what anyone wanted from an Elder Scrolls. Sit in a room and wait for your lackey to drop off some books.
Pretty damn happy I got to play the lackey instead.
Edit:
It is all about how you tell the story and what the story is. Don't write things off out of hand with blanket statements. You will miss out on a lot of media you might have enjoyed.
@@Michael-bn1oi When you stop to think about it, how Oblivion treats its chosen one is arguably more realistic than how Skyrim treats its chosen one. As opposed to constantly risking his life, and thus the fate of the world, Martin remains behind closed, heavily guarded doors doing the important stuff, while the grunt work is given to other, more expendable lives (in this case, the PC).
If they make staves actually function like mage weapons and not just free magic casting sticks, I would like to see those as equippable "mage weapons" that boost the effect of spells depending on the staff you have equipped, or boosting all magic while it is equipped with a certain school being more boosted.
I 2nd this. Assuming it was tied to how oblivions magic is. Then the staffs could work as a minor boost to damage and large magicka cost reduction based on the school of magic. This would be nice because your casting as a battle mages (with a 2 hander weapon) will be more of a jack of all trades. And with the staff its the master of one. Ya know?
I played Skyrim first. Loved it. Was the first video game like that I'd played in years. Then I played Oblivion, and it kind of opened my eyes to how much Skyrim lacked for writing. But then I played Morrowind. At a good age, in my 20's. People arent lying when they say, less is more in Morrowind. Voice acting all the lines really limited Bethesda in terms of development.
That point about swapping the two on the timeline was very interesting, I do think the situation would have been better if they had beenbreversed.
I played Oblivion fully, properly and completely for the first time last year. Honestly they did so much right.
The art style stood out immediately, i way prefer the weapons and armour. Skyrim weapons are all so big, i end up rolling with a custom Blades sword because it's the only good thin sword in Skyrim. Same with armour, i love the Daedric armour in Oblivion vs the set in Skyrim. Glass is better in Skyrim. Shoutout to Smithing too, i love crafting my top tier armour.
The levelling system in Skyrim is objectively easier to use. I don't think that makes it better though. I preferred having skills both major and minor which are governed by my attributes. Its worth mentioning the level scaling in Oblivion sucks, imo you can have all 100 stats and still get wrecked which is not desirable.
I prefer enchanting and alchemy in Skyrim for obvious exploity reasons. I preferred Oblivions magic schools and combat skills though, Skyrim feels like it's missing half of them.
The guilds in Oblivion are incredible. As someone who had only played Skyrim i was blown away by the mage guild recommendation quests. I was also impressed by the fighters guild considering The Companions are their inferior replacement, seeing the hist tree was very interesting. Oblivions Dark Brotherhood are obviously superior, literally no competition.
I actually think the main quests are similar in some ways. Both the Oblivion gates and dragons are super inconvenient after your first 2 hours, I prefer that the gate has a whole interior cell filled with towers, loot, enemies and a sigil stone.
Bethesda themselves, Todd specifically, have mentioned how Oblivion was Bethesdas last hope when it released, they put everything into it and you can tell. Skyrim feels rushed and streamlined in comparison, which is not what i want for ES6.
Edit: I was mistaken, it was in fact Morrowind that was Bethesda's last hope. However that doesn't change my sentiment. I still think Skyrim felt rushed and streamlined when compared with Oblivion, which i will reaffirm is not what i want for ES6. Thanks Anonymous User.
I gotta say the easy leveling system in Skyrim is what ruined the game for me.
Morrowind was Bethesdas last hope not Oblivion
@@pickle9927 I have amended my comment. Good spot.
Nothing like waking up to the tribunals podcast
Same, lol Americans waking up to it, Australians eat lunch with it
@@linaku58 Its 1am in Australia when they upload, I mean it varies depending on what side of the country but still, late at night
*Left* - *to* - *right* :
Vivec, Almalexia, Sotha Sil
@@linaku58 No? They don't upload until lunchtime here in the States.
Skyrim will always be my favorite, but let's not forget Morrowind brought me into the fold. The intro to Oblivion I will say is much more heartfelt, including Sir Patrick Stewart's monolog. Honestly though to really choose between skyrim and oblivion is like trying to choose your favorite child. Their uniqueness is what make them different, but you love them both equally.
I agree 💜
I really enjoy both games but....
Honestly if u point me in the head with a gun and force me to choose between the two Skyrim or Oblivion to play for the rest of my life (without mods, just vanilla)
I will choose skyrim with no hesitation
Hey guys! Amazing episode again. I've been diagnosed w cancer and starting treatment again soon, after already a shitty covid time and these podcast are pretty much the highlight of my relaxation times when I can have them, much love for putting one out so often. Maybe fun idea for one would be a small challenge between the 3 of you coming up with your ideal elder scrolls 6 game. A name, location, main plotline and like a giant new feature. And then us fans can decide which one was best. Much love and carry on!
~36:30 Hey guys I miss the fact that in Morrowind one could be an actual mage by recharging magical items by sleeping and literally recharging your batteries, but in Oblivion and Skyrim either pay a real mage to recharge it or use soul gem technology. Very sad :(
I'm honestly in the middle of my first playthrough of Morrowind rn and I had no idea this was a thing, I've always just spammed Azura's star. I ran into Umbra while exploring at like level 7 and immediately cheesed him so I never had any shortage of soul access. This is awesome to know if I do a second playthrough that's a little less exploity
@@madbeetle4470 Love to help, these games are epic. I thank you guys for enjoying the game with me :)
drew just sitting back and smiling while scott and michael throw PERKS and SKILLS back and forth is a whole mood
Michael's right about the bards college quest, at the bottom of the dungeon where you retrieve Olaf's Verse the final door can only be opened by the ghost of the bard who kept trying to expose Olaf, and the ghost only spawns when doing the quest to prevent you from stumbling upon the dungeon early and clearing it out before doing the bards college. In order to open it you had to go all the way to the bottom of the dungeon and find the bard's skeleton where his ghost is waiting, upon doing so the ghost reappears at the front of the door waiting for you to approach and when you do he removes the magical ward keeping it locked, problem is sometimes either the ghost just wont appear in front of the door after you find him or when he removes the magical ward the animation plays and he walks through but the door just doesnt open, meaning you cant complete the quest, and you have to reload to a save before the dungeon and do it all again and hope it doesnt glitch that time, Ive had it happen like twice its kinda annoying
Morrowind kid here. Found the Game of the Year addition when I was visiting some family, and had to wait a week to play it. Drove me insane. Edit: I’ve played it infinitely throughout the years, and I still find new stuff. Yeah there are some problems, I.e. game breaking NPC deaths and stuff. But the role playing aspects haven’t been matched since.
Oblivion’s towns felt like people lived in them. Skyrim had too few people living in some towns to be believable. Wasn’t the series’ original title “live another life in another world”
Yeah Winterhold, Morthal and Falkreath felt more like villages. Ivarstead and Rorikstead feels larger than Winterhold 😂
One thing I really liked about the Oblivion's main story that Skyrim was missing was how it forced you to do a daedric quest. You can complete Skyrim's story and never once encounter a single daedra and I feel like could cause people to miss out
Oblivion: quests, main plot, Shivering Isles DLC, amazing music, NININININININININININININI
Skyrim: combat, design/architecture and places, atmosphere, amazing music
I like the side quest in cheydenhal where the dark elf gets trapped in his painting and you have to go inside the painting to save him and to defeat the painted trolls you had to use turpintine
I really want a Stormcloaks vs the Empire episode!
Shivering Isles + Knights of the Nine + Dawnguard + Dragonborn < Horse Armor.
Just getting a comment in before this starts. I played Oblivion first, and overall I have probably more hours in Oblivion than I do Skyrim. I have so many memories from it, the music, the adventures, the mystery. It was really my first experience of an Elder Scrolls game. So for me, Oblivion is my winner. However, I think Skyrim is the better game with the better mechanics and design. But really I love them both.
My college friends and I have made our own RPG based off of D&D 5E and Star Wars Roleplaying Game from FFG, and we are currently running a Cyrodiil-based campaign. It's super fun to base the setting on post-Skyrim civil war Cyrodiil, but fleshing it out with the lore that was missing from Oblivion. We have spellcrafting, enchanting, skill points, feat-like "talents" that unlock new mechanics/capabilities, quite powerful unique racial abilities, etc., all things you guys were talking about in this comparison video, so it's good to know we nailed a lot of the features you identified as important to a good RPG.
I have to say I'm with Scott on the attributes vs perks debate.
Scott, Drew, Michael, et al. How about a leveling system that has all 3: attributes, skills, and perks?
You practice skills. When you level up from skill practice, the governing attribute gets automatically increased. Perks would fall under an attribute. Attributes would govern max health, magicka, fatigue/stamina.
For example, you practice sword fighting (blade/1-handed), get better at the skill, you also get stronger as a result (strength). Now with that progression, you learn a new ability from that insight (dual flurry). Like in real life.
Just an idea off the cuff, obviously would need refining.
Im with Scott here, i´d like to see some attributes for the different races, it makes no sense that an Orc does the same damage with a sword as a Breton would, or that same Orc has the same amount of magicka as the Breton and both doing the same damage with the same spell.
But i have to also agree with Michael, the core gameplay combatwise is totally fine. I never had the feeling while playing the game, that the attributes are missing, it only comes to my mind when not playing, or when theory crafting.
My perfect Elder Scrolls 6 would be a fusion of Skyrim (gameplay and world), Oblivion (fixed level- and attribute system) and Witcher (story and quests).
I remember the first time I saw my friend play Oblivion, he told me that he become a vampire after randomly fighting one in a cave. And he explained all the effects that came with it. I was amazed at the depth that an rpg on the xbox could have. So when skyrim came out I bought it, and I was slightly dissapointed that the depth of gameplay wasn't there from the older games. I have still put in hundreds of hours into Skyrim though. It is a hard call, I almost feel like they are two seperate game series.
Here’s a fun fact: Skyrim’s capital city has less buildings than Ebonheart-a fort in Morrowind.
Ebonheart is actaully the main Imperial base on Vvardenfell, and the main trading hub, containing embassies for all the provinces, and it's the seat of the Head Governor and King.
So not really a fort, but yeah.
@@Jwlar Well yes but it's not the capital of a province either
I hope the next TES gives us the option to choose between manually equipping magic to a specific hand for a dedicated but more powerful spell casting hand, or the Oblivion style where you quick-cast spells even while using 2-handed weapons, but weaker spells.
8:10
I really likes how yall talked about the setting and world to skyrims story
At the same time I personally felt like those places and quests had minimal impact. Like the peace treaty and the thalmor embassy were extremely underwhelming
Definitely!
Yeah, although there were no Snow Elf ruins in base game Skyrim, so I'm not sure what they meant by the "expanding" on the Falmer ruins when really, there weren't any beforehand
@@thalmoragent9344 Dlcs are still canon and therefore part of the base game
@@onyx2186
I know they're Canon, but what I mean by "base game" was the original content before the DLC. I know it's Canon but we also have to take into account the development of said Canon.
A boring, less exciting answer is that the Nords somehow managed to tear down every single piece of evidence of Falmer civilization... that and the Snow Elves were an afterthought, they were never planned out till the Dawnguard DLC, and by then, they didn't have any special places to put any Falmer Ruins, aside from a whole Forgotten Vale, a place you'd never be able to ever see unless you get the DLC.
I know it's confusing, but I'm trying to say that originally, Snow Elves weren't really an idea or planned out till the DLC, which is likely the actual, out-of-universe reason for lack of any ruins at all.
@@thalmoragent9344 Ok but what are you trying to get out of this? I was just saying that the dlcs are also base game that's all
I remember playing oblivion for the first time. A heavy armored sword and shield using imperial. Baurus and Martin were my best friends and drinking buddies and I recall being very upset when Martin died.
I’d love attributes but have the option to pick a perk every 10 levels in skill tied to each attribute.
That would be VERY doable if they rip out all the "Boost X dmg" type perks and just keep those things relegated to attributes. As for the perks, things LIKE shield charge, Silent Casting or even conditioning could be perk points.
Assuming they're good, and extremely differentiating, hell yes.
Oblivion just has so much personality. Sometimes it can be super goofy but then I still remember the first time a troll came running at me and it scared the shit out of me
Can't believe you guys made this first instead of putting the two legendary titles of Battlespire and Redguard against one another smh 😩😩😩
Yup, Battlespire is so replayable that I haven't even gotten off the first level after 20 hours of gameplay.
Clicked on this the minute I got the notification. This topic should be very interesting
I loved Knights of the Nine dlc, but Miraak is a better villain in the Dragonborn dlc!
Knights vs. Dawngaurd? I'm on the fence
@@jacksmith4530 Dawnguard bro, and it's not even close (my most recent playthrough was the knights dlc btw)
@@Lucas11061 Knights. Dawnguard had cool elements but application felt eh.
Dragonborn I was happy going to Solstheim but I _hated_ the actual storyline. Like I go there but I do nothing but sidequests or exploring on my own the entire time - Miraak and Mora are so painfully dull I just let them do whatever so long as im not involved.
Kinda like the rest of Skyrim. Storyline: flatline. I haven't touched guilds since my first playthrough back when I first got it in like 2010; it's like walking through oatmeal.
After many weeks of watching these podcasts back to back I have finally caught up, the feels good
Oblivion was a one and done playthrough for me,where as Skyrim I can go back and do multiple playthroughs.
Really nice change of pace to hear you guys focus so much on elder scrolls as video games and take a little breather from being entirely lore centric. This was really fun!
skybabies vs potatoheads
3:20 ABSOLUTELY agree. Oblivion just feels like it got so much more attention and polish on the story side.
I'd say that Oblivion definitely has way better storytelling, questing, guilds and cities, which in a way made the world feel more immersive and believable. Whereas Skyrim has better world building and world design.
The thing that makes Oblivion win it for me, is that it doesn't feel scripted. Skyrim literally throws both side quests and locations in your face all the time - it's so afraid of that you might miss something. While in oblivion you will miss a huuge chunk of the content by not actively exploring untraveled areas.
And in the process of exploring you find such diverse and beautifully designed landscapes - like the color palates vary so widely, it's just gorgeous.
36:54 - Hegelian dialectics. Synthesis of ideas. I agree.
'So what you're saying, is we don't know which game is better'
absolutely killed me LMFAO
Lol. It was Morrowind that taught me to quicksave before opening any door. 'Cause the game would autosave after it loaded you on the other side of the door. The door could be a 1-way door that planted you where you had literally no chance of survival.
Bring The Arena back in ES6
YES PLEASE!!! i loved the arena. Even if it was the same everytime, i still do that near 1st in every play through.
@@shadowdragon714 yeah but it should be a lot more unpredictable in my opinion. It should form around challenging your particular play style…. Per-character.
The immersion of morrowind is second to none for one reason, true exploration. I loved being told “walk this way until you see c landmark and then head east until you see x landmark.” It forced you to truly learn the landscape and learn to move around the world.
Not only that, but this made you feel like a true explorer. Please give us a morrowind remake.
Oblivion’s combat system was better you were able to have a shield and a sword or 2 handed weapon and cast spells with out having to put them away to use magic
See, you haven't acctually said why it was better, only that it was different.
Remove the word "better" from your comment and replace it with "worse" and it would make just as much sense, or maybe slightly slightly more.
@@ltloxa1159 Its better because skyrims magic blows, its horribly uncreative and locking. Oblivion breaks the monotony of swishing your blade 300× by having you unlock new strikes and etc. Which to be fair Skyrim sort of has as well but to a lesser extent. Diversing weapon types makes it seem like there are actual differences in the weapons you use, as oppose to skyrim where its one handed, or two handed
@@CyrodiilCome you can’t argue with Skybots. They don’t play RPGs.
Really I agree Oblivion might have been better, I just wanted to point out, well...the thing I pointed out.
*Better combat, not better game.
What I miss the most in Skyrim is the spellcasting. I can't count how many times I change from spell back to weapon to healing ect in Skyrim while in Oblivion it was so organic and flowy to have a healing spell and a shield on the left and weapon and fireball on the right. Miss that so much in Skyrim, shields feels useless and just in the way 😢
Poor Drew is just sitting there waiting to talk while Scott and Michael are debating perks and attributes lmao
Attribute vs Perks:
-Attributes give you a way better sense of progression and enhance the "journey" of building your character, but in an incremental sense. They leave more room for optimisation, but after figuring out the math, they kind of leave you with an ideal distribution for each archetype of a character.
-Perks on the other hand give you these "spikes", where you're working towards them and each of the good ones give you a better/new way to play the game, and enhance the gameplay at these breakpoints, so it's more about the goal rather than the journey.
If I had to choose, I'd pick perks over attributes, because attributes are essentially just stat changes and have little impact on the gameplay, whereas perks change/spice up gameplay and break up the monotony. But, if you were allowed to "hide" perks behind stat requirements on weapons and armour (like using this item lets you use the shield charge, for example), I'd favour attributes. And it's honestly not uncommon to have "perks" (which are often known as "skills" in other games) locked in other areas of the game, because let's face it, an RPG without skill points but with attribute points would be quite boring, so they're always incorporated in one form or another.
I do love Skyrim but I think Oblivion did do better the quests, the factions, the lore Skyrim is still great and I have played it more but oblivion just has something Skyrim was missing
I would argue that oblivion has perks. being able to Jump off the surface of the water at certain thresholds and other stuff at apprentice journeyman expert and master. I’m fairly certain that every skill had something at each rank.
I think oblivion's just a lot better due to the guilds and the arena I know a lot of people say it's repetitive but I love it honestly. I don't know on Skyrim just doesn't really feel earned when you become the leader of that certain guild you do like two quests in your automatically you're an important role I just don't like that
Guilds are definitly the one thing Oblivion did better. Also I guess leveling how fast you move and such is neat. But that just kinda comes down to how long you've played that character, so I guess what I really like are enchantments/potions effecting it.
I recently replayed oblivion and the arena was VERY immersive. I loved it. Getting a rundown before every match. Some of those matches are actually difficult too. It was quite the challenge. Especially at lvl 1-5
Just got the game, and went to arena first thing I did. Didn't have to leave the imperial city to beat it, so while it was fun I certainly don't agree about the difficulity.
@@ltloxa1159 idk if touched the difficulty slider or not but mine was about 3/4ths full. Instead of the default 1/2. I really needed potions and conjure skeletons to do it.
Block once, run around the enemy and spam atack. Sometimes you can get a dozen hits before you have to block again. If there are multiple enemies you can make them get stuck close to the doors and take them one after the other.
I think this podcast poses the ultimate question. Should Elder scrolls games be made as action games or role playing games? What do we enjoy more about the series? For me personally, I love the role playing aspect of the elder scrolls series. The ability to get lost in the different worlds and areas of the Elder Scrolls series really appeals to me. Immersion is what makes the elder scrolls great and I think it’s the main reason people are turned on to the games.
RPG over Action Game all the day
Attributes ARE better than perks. if i put my lvl up point into strength, that effects a wide variety of skills; i do more dmg, now i can carry more, and Jump higher. its much more reflective that my character is growing in physical prowess. if i put it into Agility, i can sneak more easily, i'll be slightly better with a bow ect. its a more holistic and natural feeling progression.
Honestly, I find that the people who argue for perks over attributes is just a symptom of 2 different kinds of RPGs clashing. Personally I agree with Scott, but only in regards to Morrowind. I personally feel like Morrowind had a better attribute system than Oblivion. It does make your character feel better. I completely disagree with Michael saying that personality and luck don't add to a character. That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard any of them say
Something I notice( I know the video is 5months old) that none really speaks on enough is how unbalanced the quests are dialogue wise, think about how not only rushed Skyrim quests are but how the dialogue leaves no room to train before the next quest. Like Winter hold you learn one spell to get in and one ward spell then boom you're in a dungeon with your teacher then boom you're in charge with the fate of the world and there's no prep period which leads you fighting dwarven bots in less than an hour lol. I wish there was a way to at least get into a training arc vs just naw you're OBVIOUSLY strong enough to take on this task after 3 days.
Skyrim combat improvements (non magic) are pretty surface level honestly. In oblivion you had to think about managing your fatigue, when you had openings for power attacks, weapon reach, movement speed, and playing around the chance of being staggered. Even though it feels worse a lot of the time, I find I have to think about it a lot more than I do in Skyrim.
I'm late but, Oblivion also let you attack in the air whether with your bow, magic, or melee weapons.
To me this was a huge letdown in Skyrim that even barely leaving the ground stopped attacks from starting. This includes when you drop a tiny bit when walking down some rough rocks. To me that is nearly an unforgivable change.
@@cxx23 Definitely, Skyrim combat only really works if you're playing the way Todd intended, brain-off in awe of the world. When you try to experiment you quickly see how limited it is.
@@chrisbenson6753 Truth. I went from Skyrik to Oblivion myself and I fell in love with Oblivions combat.
The fact that I could run at an enemy, jump into the air and shoot an arrow as I fly over them and attack the next guy was just fantastic.
Honestly, replaying Oblivion right now and it does hit harder. I probably put way more time into Skyrim but replaying Oblivion, i get more from the story, fast traveling to a city and then exploring its outskirts, playing a battle mage build, and the biggest thing for me is when im sitting there playing through an Oblivion gate, I do feel way more challenged than I did as the all powerful Dragonborn.
I love them both and it is subjective but..Oblivion hits different on replays.
Graphics goes to Skyrim... epic Story Goes to Oblivion.
But morrowind beats both in the main story.
@@justinterry8894 True and the largest map goes to dagger fall
Regarding the perks aspect. A lot of the perks in skyrim were either just increasing defense/damage/improving mini game's difficulty. Which was what your skill level did in Oblivion anyway. If you stripped Skyrim of all boring perks there wouldn't be many.
Oblivion was the end of a saga. Skyrim was the beginning of a new one.
A new saga they decided not to continue it for some reason considering 10 years later and Skyrim is still the last game in the franchise in terms of timeline...
@@V-Jes
We'll see after Elder Scrolls 6
I rememeber unlocking backflips in oblivion and I think it was like s and double tap space to perform it. I didn't get that key combo in skyrim.
Morrowind is the best, my reason?
DAGOTH UR
Hi, HEMA practitioner here. Just wanted to weigh in on the Blade/Blunt vs One-Handed/Two-Handed debate. In terms of actual martial arts, both the type of weapon and the size of the weapon impact its usability obviously. But in terms of how drastically your technique needs to change to accommodate a new weapon, I'm with Scott. The difference in technique when switching from a longsword used with both hands to a one handed arming sword is nowhere near the difference between switching from a two handed longsword to a two handed Dane axe. A double edged cruciform sword has similar enough mechanics when wielded with one or two hands, disregarding specific cuts or techniques. Whereas swords and axes are completely different. The balance is different, with swords weighted towards the hilt and axes weighted at the head. The striking area is larger on a sword than an axe. Axes are generally more effective at delivering massive damage, but to a smaller area and require more precision in spite of the common idea of them being tools for barbarians. Because if you don't hit with the sweet spot for your particular sword, sure it doesn't cut as deep but it will still cut. If you miss with the head of your axe, now you're just smacking them with a wooden stick. Ideally you'd have a combination of the sets of skills. Maybe instead of one-handed or two-handed, you have skills like Sword, Axe, and Bludgeon. And within those skills, you have trees for one-handed vs two-handed axes. One handed swords vs longsword. Maces and clubs vs Warhammers. I think that solves the problems with both systems.
Oblivion wins!!!!
hadvar who takes you to the character creation screen hes actually a super good guy and good friend 10/10 would fight the stormcloaks with again
Morning, guys. Or rather, evening. It's been awhile . . . life happens.
Nice topic, and Michael, I'd welcome some more spinoff videos from this!
Perks could be made to please both sides. Have the perk points put into a perk tree, but the points are limited to the skill, so say every 10 levels in a certain skill you get a point to put into that skill and to make it mean something its a tree and you have to pick which branch to go down, or maybe just have to use double points for another branch. Maybe keep the legendary system to regain those point and start back over. But still using double points for secandary branches.
Oblivion for me. More fantastical and had more of everything. Creature variety, spells, weapons, armor, skills etc. More intrecate decorations/designs too, more unique stuff like birthsigns vs Skyrim's "guidestones"
I would love a podcast ranking the top 10 builds that y’all have made and posted on the channel!
Giving Skyrim the "best side quests" for thinking Saadia's quest (a literal piece of ambiguity that has no impact) is better than Oblivion ones, where you had creative quest building, despite the graphics and limitations, is unfair.
37:35 except necromancy is there with all the summon ghost skeleton and zombie spells. The only thing that isn't there is the reanimated dead person spells which for the record isn't how necromancy works in the elder scrolls universe.
Souls stay tethered to their body for months and years and prevent the immediate resurrection of a dead body.