Teaching Arena Zoomers About Paying the 1 | Against the Odds
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- Опубліковано 29 лип 2024
- I hypocritically teach Arena zoomers why you should always "pay the 1" for Rhystic Study, Esper Sentinel and "the two" for Smothering Tithe in Historic, because they don't there might be spectacular combo consequences!
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0:00 Start
0:06 Deck Tech
4:12 Match 1
29:52 Match 2
47:32 Match 3
57:44 Match 4 - Ігри
Seth teaching others about paying the one is like Crim teaching others about mono green ramp 😂
Or Tomer teaching you about Anime.
they do say "who can't do teaches"
maybe it's the perfect person to teach, maybe it could be a self learning experience for Seth...maybe
Petition to ask Crim to do this
Richard teaching about flashy and scarry-looking EDH decks)
Props to the Gate Player for letting you combo of instead of scooping
Probably the first time a Gate player has let someone combo of instead of insta-scooping
@@ICantThinkOfAFunnyHandlelet’s be honest he was probably hoping for the timeout win
Celebrating someone letting themselves be held hostage is kinda weird. Seek help.
@@jugularstab found the spike
tbf sticking around for a potential timeout is a legitimate way of defeating your opponent. Nerve wracking for combo players like myself, but nonetheless legitimate
Teaching Arena Zoomers is a great new segment
zoomers ACTUALLY think you can change your gender, LOL
Thanks!
Love it as a segment, just kinda wish the name was different. I don't mind it being about showing people old tricks they wouldn't see these days, but I'll be honest. A *lot* of the zoomers I play with are even more knowledgeable about the game than me, and I've been playing since the 90s. Seems a bit silly to say it's a particular cohort, when it's actually just about Arena-only players in general.
@@Masteryashai think its a funny name and it works really well as a grabby title
@@MasteryashaChill out zoomer
This deck is missing some Mana Tithes and Censors. Great Video!
Oh god
arena loves to go slowly and then be like "omg why are you playing so slow"
I wish you could disable animations and save targets.
The solution when you're in this weird endgame where blue sun doesn't quite cut it (yet) and activating faerie mastermind might take too long is to simply zenith yourself. Just do it for the exact amount of cards you have in library then the zenith is the only card the mastermind will be able to draw you. So Guaranteed zenith everytime. As long as you have 5 mana remaining you should be okay.
Seek does not shuffle. It's very cute with stacking your deck :)
The reason why the Primeval Titan was no longer revealed on top was because there's a chance it was the exact card found with seek, so technically the top card is random again.
Ahh, this makes sense
I think the only reason I figured that out is my dragon deck has that dragon bard that let's you play dragons off the top and faceless agent who seeks
honestly idk why they didn't just word seek the same as cascade. "exile cards from the top of your library until you reveal a card that satisfies the condition, put it into your hand, then put the rest on the bottom in a random order" or something similar
.... actually i just now realized
i was gonna say that that gives basically the same effect but it just lets you do it in paper as well so why not word it that way
but i guess the way it works in digital means that your opponent doesn't know the card you seek, giving them less information
seems liek they still should have done it in the paper-possible way for a card like fragment reality, since the card goes onto the battlefield. i guess it reveals what your opponent is on which could be a little useful if you can play it early in game 1 but that seems minor enough to not care about imo
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊@@MTGGoldfish
The important difference between seek and search is that it doesn't shuffle your deck. Otherwise it could be a paper mechanic
And you lose the info of where the Primeval Titan is because it could have been the thing Seeked (seek nonland). So, you no longer know if it is there (Schrodinger's Titan), and, so it's no longer revealed.
Arena Zoomers teaching Seth about Seek
The reason that you always reveal the card when searching your library for a specific card type is so that you can verify the other person isn't cheating by grabbing something else when playing in person. You'd have to reveal the card for seeks in person, and you'd need some systematic way of grabbing a card randomly from your deck that meets the criteria
Seek doesn't really work well in paper, say I have that changeling that seeks a creature of the highest type in my deck. If i have 30 goblins how do I get one from my deck at random?
@@michaelcollins4534There have been effects similar to seek in paper magic for decades.
Cards will say "Reveal cards off the top of your library until...". So there are already effects that can pick random cards from your deck with certain conditions.
The only difference with seek is that it doesn't reveal anything about the deck or its order, and you don't shuffle.
But this effect is extremely easy to emulate in paper magic because shuffling re-randomizes the order.
"Teaching Arena Zoomers" is without a doubt my favorite thing on MTG Goldfish.
same here
Remember Seth, you can commit one of the treasures and then use it to cast the spell, it will fizzle and go to grave without you having to commit your own things
Rhystic Study sits in a weird place. The “common knowledge” comes from a time where you weren’t dying to 2 2-drops in every match. However, Rhystic study is a 3 mana “do nothing”, requiring your opponent to interact. Also, it has been a very long time since most people have seen a study, so they don’t understand to pay the 1.
Rhystic study wasn't really good till commander
@@notapplicable6985 There’s a reason why it didn’t. In 1v1 with Rhystic the threats were cards like Storm Crow and Shivan Dragon. Taking an extra turn to play cards wasn’t as big a deal when the blue deck also couldn’t put a clock on you. Play to your outs- letting the Study player draw extra cards is bad, so don’t.
I think Match 3 is a very good case in point on why Rhystic Study isn't good in 1v1. Yes, Izzet Wizards is an Arena only deck, but you can say the same about almost every other formats. It might be pretty good against slower, grindy decks, but it just folds against any deck with a clock because you really can't take a turn off to play basically nothing.
@@Valdreag17 Meh. Aggro decks back then could still kill T4. Mid-Range decks all played mana dorks so they had the mana to spare and would still kill you T5. Most draw-go decks didn't even cast their win-cons. There was no need to even play around it if all that rhystic accomplished was draw you a single card before you died.
@@Valdreag17 Reminder that Necropotence was still legal in Extended when Rhystic Study released, and Lin Sivvi had just come to Standard in the previous set. So even 2+ decades back, Wizards was still printing threats that, across formats, just comically stomped all over Rhystic Study. The exact reasons why it sucks might change over time, but Rhystic Study has always been too slow for 1v1. Even a 3 mana Sphere of Resistance, full stop, might not be worth running there, and that's just a better version of Rhystic Study.
i really think Arena should add a way to let you skip heavily repeated action animations so loops like this can be resolved quicker. Like, you had a demonstrable loop on the 4 treasures into Faerie Mastermind, so it should have an option that just doesn't go through the actions of spending and remaking those treasures.
I wish the would, decks like this would be a lot easier to play.
this is actually a fundamental problem in computer science. Its very difficult for a program to be able to accurately identify if its in an infinite loop without hard coding every condition that could potentially produce an infinite loop. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
i think it would be a bit easier for MTG Arena to do something like, Idunno, check if a repeatable action would create the same amount of resources needed to start the action and just skip the animation for spending/creating those resources tho wouldnt it? It doesn't need to know if the loop will halt, just check if the action of the potential loopable gamestate creates a scenario in which the initial state hasn't changed so you can repeat the action whilst only having to show the non-looped actions and account for if they interrupt the loop as those specific actions resolve?@@dannyg282
@@dannyg282 would it be possible for a player to have some option to present an infinite loop to the engine and have the application (or engine or whatever) check the loop presented?
Something that would help infinite combos without invoking the halting problem would be to speed up the animation for each time that particular animation has been played in a turn, eventually just turning them off after a certain point.
I would love to see more "teaching Arena zoomers" content, even if it means periodically going back to cards/themes you've already touched on. Trying alternate builds or updates, or even just playing the exact same deck for another hour's worth of matches.
Tbh something that would have likely sped up your turns when you went infinite would simply be to put as many Mastermind activations as you can afford on the stack at once, let them all resolve, then peruse your hand for useful cards, instead of the stop-go motion that leads to a spending a bunch of extra time
Also pitch Commits more and use E-Power first since Memory can't get wheeled
wait, are u suggesting using full control and holding priority to save time? does that actually help? i imagine being in full control, or switching full control on and off, would lose more time than it saves
@@alaraplatt8104 Full Control On, just mash out the Mastermind triggers onto the stack, mashing autopay and thinking as little as possible, then toggle off and let all the draw resolve, Full Control won't lose you time cause you're acting on first priority anyway, so you're not sifting through timings you don't want to act on, and you turn it off when the stack is resolving so that all the treasure and draw can occur smoothly
Emergency powers into smothering tithe was one of my favorite decks you played in that standard, stoked for this
"Would you like to pay the 104?" is by far the cruelest thing you can say to an opponent who's tapped out.
I laughed out loud at that point. Just beautiful.
1:22:00 As a reminder, Fragment Reality puts the creature into play tapped, so it wouldn't be able to block.
As for Rhystic Study in 1v1, apparently it sees some play in Pauper sideboards.
Also, archmage's charm can steal a creature with cmc 1 or less.
I don't think I've ever giggled this much through a video... basically every time Seth asks "do you want to pay..." and the answer is a resounding "NO!"
I feel like you're doing a good service to old and new MtG players with this segment, because new players get to watch and learn classic strategies unfolding before they play at local TCGs on FNM, but also seasoned veterans can also enjoy older strategies crushing opponents again. Great stuff!
Next on Teaching Arena Zoomers: Seth teaches about being hypocritical lol
To me Folio of Fancies is always a hidden gem of smothering combo, which works very well when there are two or more smothering tithes.
No one will believe me, but at MagicCon Vegas, I made Seth pay the one REPEATEDLY against my oops all Teferi Commander deck… it was the wildest thing I’ve ever seen!
its true I was the one
I'm an arena zoomer learning these teachings instead of submitting late work. This is more informational than all of my high school classes combined
mmph mmmmph!!
It's a shame Rhystic Study isn't legal in modern or something. I would love to play something similar to this in Paper Magic.
It's legal in pauper, although I'm not sure how well it would do there, I feel like most decks could either pay the one or just not care about you drawing extra cards
Rhystic study and mystic remora saw some rare sideboard play years ago, but the meta has sped up significantly since then so I would be surprised to see them again
This feels like a MonoBlackMagic deck, and I love
I was waiting to hear that there was 1 copy of forced fruition in the deck but I was left waiting. I guess there would be too many odds that it would be against.
I really love this series haha
Maybe bc I started playing magic on arena and never had the opportunity to see old cards
I think that Rhystic Study performed better than it actually is because people don't know how to play against it. The games where people were able too play around it it felt like the deck wasn't able to do much other than ask the question, which gave them the time they needed because you weren't threatening anything other than more cards. I wonder if adding black for Sheoldred would be good, it gives you a significant backup plan, and drastically reduces the amount of combo you have to do, it may be outside of the spirit of the deck, but I think it would make the deck much more competitive
I'd also say another contibuting factor was just the matchups were incredibly lucky. Like, after Sheoldred: The Apocalypse having been as dominant as it has and Orcish Bowmasters being good enough to get nerfed on Arena, I think this is the worst time to argue for Rhystic being good in 1v1.
That last game was well played by both parties, and was really respectful. Good sportsmanship on both sides. Well done to you both!
I feel bad for the colorless opponent. They seemed like a new player who got into the game by just learning and playing that one deck. Either that or they knew they weren't winning so they took it as a personal challenge to see how many cards they could make you draw lol
Or they're a YGO player and think of it like playing through Maxx-C
Idk about you but I haven’t seen many new players spend over 30+ rare/mythic wildcards for a colorless deck and also be in platinum rank
@@ocin5006 Ya new players ain't playing a Mystic Forge combo deck
My favorite meme deck I’ve ever played in standard was affectionately called “emergency centaurs” using tithe, emergency powers and rampage of the clans. Good times
"I wish there were voice chat" seth says as the monkey's paw curls another finger
At least Seth recognizes the irony of him being the one making this video. As soon as I saw the title, I could almost hear Tomer ranting about Seth needing to pay the 1 on the most recent episode of clash.
I love you working through all of the Eldrane enchantments.
I’m laughing SO HARD from these first two matches! I love this deck/video
Glad you liked it!
Seek actually doesn't shuffle the library. I know this having played realmwalker and faceless agent.
You know, I think this deck needs a couple of reliquary towers and maybe a couple of sea gate restorations.
This was pure joy. I still remember playing the awesome Underworld Dreams + Emergency Powers deck
I really Hope That when Seth Pitched this Video, Tomer groaned, Crim Laughed and Richard asked "Really".
as i got back into magic. i really do enjoy watching your videos while I play my games.
The second opponent: "I don't care who the IRS sends, I'm not paying my taxes!"
You even did a video of my deck a couple years ago!! Crackling Smothering Power!
Helpful tip for later: archmage's charm can gain control of those flipped sagas. Their cmc is technically 0, so the third mode there can gain control of their fable or whatever random saga they're playing.
That's no longer the case, they changed the ruling with flip cards and their mana values when it came to fatal push in modern. Flip cards maintain the mana value of their front half.
@@TheMegaMagikarp I see. Thanks for the correction, it's really helpful not to get corrected when it counts, like at the table.
We, from the EDH community, would like to thank you for your diligence in tutoring young magic players on the nuanced finesse of this game.
Game 2 in a nutshell: Seth Bullies someone's Semblance Anvil
This was so satisfying to watch , Thank you for the amazing content.
I bought the Smothering Tithe anime art (on Arena) specifically because that art is absolutely mandatory for decks like this.
Though my idea for a deck was an Abzan deck that wins through locking the opponent out of the game until they draw for the turn. On turn 53.
47:05 It's so nice to let the opponent draw some cards after he let you draw so many!
is there any value to adding some cards to reduce the activation costs or is that redundant?
I love that you did this video. I've been enjoying a similar deck for the past month when I became obsessed with rhystic study. Another card that's amazing in commander that I wish saw play would be as foretold. In my mind it'd pair well with proliferate (experimental augury and tezzrets gambit) so maybe using either pollen druids or ichormoon gauntlet to ramp the free spells and blue leylines so you could play creatures/planeswalkers at instant speed. But I don't have the wildcards after making my rhystic deck.
I wish I had people to play commander with but I'm stuck trying to make my fav cards work in arena standard
I think I have a better "pay the 2" card. Dream Tides. (Visions).
Creatures do not untap during their controller's untap step.
Each nongreen creature's controller may pay an additional 2 during his or her upkeep to untap that creature.
This deck is something near one deck I've been playing fro several years at this point. Some cards were swapped as new ones could improve their function but... here it goes!
The main function is to pile up exiled cards before reseting the hands and getting the opponent graveyard exiled with Ashiok, so their deck becomes thinner each time.
There are also several win cons like:
- Pinging opponent each time they draw
- A massive Torment of Hailfire
- Milling their deck
- +2 Tezzeret with an absurd amount of treasures
- x 2 Approach of the Second Sun
- And of course sharks
It's been a while since I have not been upgrading the deck so I am sure that there is room for improvement
Deck
3 Hallowed Fountain (RNA) 251
3 Emergency Powers (RNA) 169
2 Commit /// Memory (AKR) 54
3 Ashiok, Dream Render (WAR) 228
3 Smothering Tithe (RNA) 22
2 Bloodchief's Thirst (ZNR) 94
3 Godless Shrine (RNA) 248
2 Legions to Ashes (BRO) 215
2 Cleansing Nova (M19) 9
3 Doomskar (KHM) 9
3 Glacial Fortress (XLN) 255
2 Castle Ardenvale (ELD) 238
1 Castle Vantress (ELD) 242
2 Castle Locthwain (ELD) 241
3 Isolated Chapel (DAR) 241
2 Fae of Wishes (ELD) 44
2 Sphinx's Revelation (AKR) 262
1 Shark Typhoon (IKO) 67
2 Settle the Wreckage (XLN) 34
2 Tasha's Hideous Laughter (AFR) 78
1 Hall of Storm Giants (AFR) 257
1 Sea Gate Restoration (ZNR) 76
4 Raffine's Tower (SNC) 254
2 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse (DMU) 107
2 Teferi, Temporal Pilgrim (BRO) 66
1 Bladecoil Serpent (BRO) 229
2 Underworld Dreams (THB) 121
1 Torment of Hailfire (AKR) 128
Sideboard
1 Kaya, Orzhov Usurper (RNA) 186
1 Tezzeret, Master of the Bridge (WAR) 275
1 Emergency Powers (RNA) 169
1 Approach of the Second Sun (STA) 1
1 Teferi's Ageless Insight (M21) 76
1 Oath of Teferi (DAR) 200
1 Teferi, Temporal Pilgrim (BRO) 66
In any case, I have had really good times with this kind of deck. It also works great as people do not usually knows what you are going for.
Best regards!
Anyone know a free magic website to play on pc? Where you can have all cards free with out purchase and lvl.
Wonder if Revel in Riches or Orcish as a one-of would be nice - to have some alternates to win
revel is alright, but its an upkeep trigger so its hardly ever going to come in handy. bowmasters though, that'll do it for sure, i'd even include the nerfed version
@@alaraplatt8104 I was gonna mention the color splashing being annoying for Bowmasters, but Smothering Tithe treasures solve that problem easily.
This is a hilarious concept! I love it. This looks so innocent lol ^.^
I see Rhystic study as quite good generally, glad to see others learning. Though if it's not in a deck with control it can often feel like too little too late
Could you put in a one off training grounds to make the faerie mastermind combo only need 2 smothering tithes?
Absolutely merciless that seph doesnt even try to win with a second sun or other haymaker, but just grinds them out over 20 turns, waiting for them to either slowly die or simply concede. Truly a wicked man😱
The thumbnail game is getting even stronger. The art for this one was amazing xD
6:54 seek doesn't shuffle unless the rest of the ability says to shuffle. The titan is still on top.
There are no odds to be against when the algorithm favors you this well...
The thing about study is that even if it never draws you a card, it makes your opponent’s stuff cost one more to play. That alone is good for a three mana card, even in 1v1
I want Seth to whisper “Wow, three Rhystic Studies” as an asmr video for 2 hours straight.
@22:40 pretty sure blue suns the opponents for 9 is the correct play here as it just ramps you a bunch of extra treasure for free prior to wheeling. @23:27 and again blue suns the opponent for 11 getting 33 treasure. Which would have aleviated the time constraints at the end.
Yeah, that was a punt. Should have Blue Sun's there for sure.
The game against the colourless player made me want to throw my phone out the window
For the first game.
set a stop on your opponent's turn draw step. the clock resets when their turn starts. The ability is instant speed.
I miss my black and blue pay to do stuff decks. Thanks for the amusement to see new players to learn the suffering.
We need a counter on screen for how many times Seth says "Do you pay the one" this episode. Lol
Couldnt he have gained control of the mirror breaker flip with archmages charm? Or any other of the tokens for that matter?
Me: “I wish someone would make a gate”
Baulder: “😏😏😏”
Great video as always! I think you could've trimmed some cards to make room for Mirrormade (or Copy Enchantment, but Mirrormade is much better since it can also copy the Esper Sentinel) to be able to combo faster/more consistently by virtually having more than four copies of Smothering Tithe in the deck.
Loving Seth being so giddy about azorious control :)
Great when opponents just sit out a combo and just enjoys what their opponent is doing instead of scooping instantly
Cool deck. Reminds me of an draw and exile Esper Deck with 4x Time Spiral instead of Memory and some Lobotomy just to get rid of any enemy wincons.
Two cards, Saff. Sheoldred. Forced Fruition. I built a whole deck around card draw hate that forces your opponents to draw. Sheoldred and FF are basically an instant win if your opponent has fewer than 15 life. Additionally, bowmasters are fantastic in the deck.
Ha, I've been working on something similar for a video!
This was incredibly satisfying to watch
Just imagine how good ancestral recall would be in this deck. Forcing your opponent to draw three cards and possibly have them discard to handsize. I think Seth finally found a home for that lackluster card.
That's a very interesting perspective on wizards in historic
I appreciate that he opens with "Hypocritically" lol.
I think people say these effects are bad in 1v1 only because of how much more busted they are in multiplayer formats. Maybe drawing 1 or 2 cards for 1-3 mana is good, but maybe drawing 3-6 cards for the same rate makes it seem irrelevant to play in 1v1
Esper Sentinel sees Modern and fringe Legacy play, but Rhystic on it's own in 1v1... is mostly comparable to a very slow Divination, maybe?
That's the problem. People aren't very good at playing around it in 1v1, but it isn't strong. But it does get better when stacked, so Esper Sentinel is the one doing the work
In match 4 game one, if I'm not mistaken, you could win by casting blue sun zenith for 27 and then drawing for free with faerie mastermind until you found it again to finish milling the op, there was no need to wheel again
Seth, I am extremely disappointed in you for not including mana tithe in this deck
Can someone answer why he is bouncing the Semblance Anvil while it's on the stack, beforethe opponent exiles a card? I guess the main benefit is that if you wait you don't get priority until they get a chance to cast another spell that could be discounted, but in most situations that would be a single 2-3 cost artifact based on how much mana was left, and in exchange you also get rid of the card they exiled by waiting...isn't a 2 for 1 better than them getting a tiny bit of tempo?
Seth teaches zoomers about Rhystic Study.
Obviously they are not paying! 😂
My disappointment in not seeing Mana Tithe is immeasurable
“Dice rolls are bad!”
>Comet enters chat.
That deck was crazy, super entertaining
Seth teaching arena zoomers that if they just payed the one like he did they to could buy a house
Enjoyed the race the rope part
You're such a despicably evil troll, I love every second of it.
How do you get them old school lands??
1:10:50 It really is that good. Less so in Modern and Historic, because you don't care about it being a blue card for Force of Will, but if you just think of it as an MDFC, it's super good. It fixes your mana like a fetch land, it pitches to Force, and if the game drags on, I've seen games of Legacy where it's used to draw 3 (or more in Beanstalk decks) cards. Being a shuffle for Brainstorm that doesn't require you to keep up an unfetched land is also a big plus in that format.
I got the Yusri Fortune's Flame as a commander and other day I got 5 coin flips as heads, which lets you draw 5 cards and play anything from hand for free. Got insane board, was super fun
7:00 It was at this moment that Seth's opponent realized they weren't playing against a tempo deck.
This is the most we'll ever see Seth ask players to pay the one in our lifetime.
I feel something people always underestimate with Rhystic Study (and similar effects) is the psychological pressure it adds to most (not all, obviously) opponents. Instead of "you *have* to pay 1 more", the fact that it's basically "you have to *choose* if you pay 1 more" adds to the cognitive load of every casting decision opponent makes. Outside of high level play, that's actually very significant. And that's doubly true in paper when you do get to ask "do you pay the one?" over and over and over.
Of course, if you read it as "you have to pay 1 more" (which you often should), you completely avoid this side effect.
Oh, and maybe going down a wheel or two for some Solve The Equation could help, since once you have a crapton of treasures it can either fetch a wheel or your finisher (or a boardwipe if you think you're about to brick).
For a while I’ve been playing a Smothering Tithe / Emergency Powers deck that I came up with. A few variations, but never tried the Rhystic Study / Esper Sentinel tech.
My versions include red, going for a burn kill, or using Wish to find a variety of toolbox and alternate win cons.
It’s been very successful, including wins against Tron resolving N. Bolas, Dragon God; Karn, The Great Creator; AND Ugin the Spirit Dragon multiple times in a game 😂
It can be a lot of fun to pilot, but sometimes it feels repetitive 😅
I love that rhystic study is pauper legal
I'd drop a sentinel and 1 mastermind and add 2 Oracle of the Alpha's because it gives you more wheel effects that get shuffled back in.
I know Seth doesn't like alchemy cards and thinks they don't do well in videos, but maybe if they were simply in the list instead of being the centerpiece card of the deck that would be fine.
When Rhystic Study first came out, everyone was complaining how bad it was. I collected 4 for every deck I had that had blue in it. I have a whopping 20 of them, they have always been good if you can control the field. If you get overrun, it's not good, like you saw against wizards. But In my Stasis, Tradewind and my wizard control decks it's phenomenal. Especially in Stasis. If they even want to do anything, they are generally working on limited resources anyway, and they can't pay the extra.