IBM Model M IBM Model F Symbolics Space Cadet IBM 5251 IBM 4704 Dell GYUM97SK Data General Dasher G1 ITT Courier Acer KB-101A Epson BFK Chyron 4044 Apple Extended Keyboard II Fujitsu N860 Northgate OmniKey ULTRA
That Oki gourd spring is beautiful. It has the hallmarks of tools of the past, even up to old pneumatic tools, with very few moving parts yet perform a function admirably AND with elegant style and simplicity.
7:43 This is the 3D force touch equivalent in switch form. Imagine being able to access a second layer without needing a meta key at all. Imagine the amazing dual legend keycaps indicating what a short press and a long press will generate on the screen.
Several switch families have had double-action key switches. The first revision of the Apple III computer had double-action switches for the arrow keys. The cursor would move faster when you pressed a key all the way to the bottom.
I thought more about camera buttons that focus with the first contact, and makes a picture with the second, but anyway it would be cool to have on a modern switch! It would be useful too, if you consider how popular are nowadays 60% keyboards and smaller. But I think in future it will be more likely to be implemented on analog switches, like the Wooting One keyboard.
Small letters on a short press and capital letters on a long press would be quite fitting I think. It's like you're inflating the letters you type! And now a single meta key gives you four layers: short press, long press, key + short press, key + long press... Imagine Emacs shortcuts with a keyboard like that. Tidy HTML, JSLint, remove comments and upload to FTP server: hyper-long-press-H, super-short-press-J, CTRL-short-press-C, CTRL-hyper-long-press-F. Simple, elegant, efficient.
I'm just surprised that the Space Cadet keyboard didn't include a dual activation switch. It would have doubled the number of characters available to the user. Such a wasted opportunity!
People shouldn't be so willing to just throw in the towel and cope with sub-par, cheap conformist crap :p . Don't take "not good enough" for an answer! Look at the work Ellipse has done to bring back capacitive buckling springs! What modern switch could POSSIBLY stand up to that? ;)
@TVMisterTero That seems rather narrow-sighted in regards to the current keyboard market. A lot of people build their own keyboards for ergonomic reasons, or to create something more pragmatic to their uses - in that case the _only_ choice is current production switches. Unless he's referring strictly to active mass commercial production, and excluding things like group buys or common mods - that's just being nitpicky, if he has to I don't think anyone would mind the list being expanded to switches that are _reasonably obtainable_ instead.
5:57 mind. fucking. blown. *edit:* I'd expect it to be inconsistent, with high variability between keys, and perhaps sensitive to dust/crud, but if it isn't we're talking about some admirable engineering! I'd love to see the wells and how it comes together.
In the tokai it seems that in unpressed position the ball rests only on one contact, because the spring pressing it down is on an offset axis, and when you press down at a certain amount of force the ball curvature over the contact makes the spring tilt sort of like what happens on a buckling spring. The ball seems to be kept on one only contact by two things: the tension of the spring and the little plastic tab on the slider, labeled 30. In my opinion the length of this plastic tab balances those two factors, defining the tactility: if the tab is long (or down) enough the ball is constantly pushing to it, and is forced to go down and right smoothly as the tab going down allows it, giving you a linear or moderate tactility; if this tab gets less authority over the ball (being shorter), the ball will snap over the second contact when the spring buckles, giving you more noise and tactility. At least this is what I understand! It shouldn't be easy to test it without cover, as this kind of design seems to require a really precise positioning of the axis, and this may probably be the cause of the not so great expected lifetime.
Marco Toselli they designed a switch that can't cope with much wear and tear. I guess their was a lot of how to make a switch that isn't patented yet going on back then. You allways seem to get weird less practical designs when the market is already full of the common sense patentee designs.
It makes completely sense that they tried to design something that wouldn't violate some existing copyright! However I don't see it as a bad thing but quite the opposite, differentiation is always a good thing, because not everyone likes the same thing. Maybe if it would have got a little more success there could have been more improvements that would make it a really nice and cheap switch, kind of like all the improvements and differentiation done in the recent years to the good old cherry mx design. Or maybe simply the japanese colture is attracted by shiny metallic balls, as you can see today by the "japanese polished foil ball"!
Chyrosran's response, probably: - Mods to Alps switches (and a callback to the AT101 Bigfoot video where you can mod Salmon Alps). Edit: and YOK Panda switch lines, as well as O-Rings, stem swaps, etc. - Pine Alps and Buckling Spring keyboards, Fujitsu leafsprings, and a few Foam-and-foil switches, maybe Vintage MX Black if he feels like temporarily alienating his viewerbase. - Switches manufactured by the Soviet Union, hall effect switches (like the APT ones), GK Libra Bloody/Razer Optomechanical switches. - *_digs up single switch collection_* "The ones I don't have" (probably NMB Space Invaders, also known as Hi-Tek 725s)
Here's hoping that someone can pass Thomas an idea or two on how those magical Japanese ball and spring switches work. They look like a fun design. It's a pity they're only rated for two million actuations.
Go to any store and pick the first ten keyboards that you see, or visit amazon.com and click on the first ten keyboards that you find. They will be all bad keyboards.
ZX Spectrum, ZX81, Atari 400, Oric-1, IBM PC Jr., Commodore 116, Jupiter Ace, KC85, Enterprise64 to name a few bad homecomputer keyboards. Some bad by concept already, some additionally by build quality.
Last one seems to be the keyboard version of the switches used in most Japanese 30mm arcade buttons. Btw unlikely request, but I'd be interested to see the FANUC System P Model G down the road for a review or something.
This is the very first video I've seen from you, and I have to say: GOOD DAMN! That smooth voice is like butter to my ears! I would listen to you reading the package leaflet of an hemorrhoids cream with joy!
Hi Chyrosran, can you make a top 10 best (in your opinion of course) switches that consumer can buy right now? some of the switch in your top list is so old it's hard to track them down. Thank you.
Keys being able to click more than one times when are being pushed down are actually used quite often in photo cameras: pushing down until the first click result in auto-focus being activated, and pushing down further results in the actual photo taking. Anyway I'm curious where did you find that key, because it was rather big. Much bigger than the one you may encounter in today's cameras.
I love how many keyswitches seem to have been actually produced just because somebody came up with something that could conceivably work, not because there is any particularly good reason for it.
Could the ball (or contacts) in the Tokai switch be magnetised? It would explain the short lifespan anyway... PS. Do you have any idea why Amkey F&F switches are so smooth and non mushy? Unlike any other F&F I tried...
Chyrosran22 My other though is that when inside the case, the spring bottom slides down the front of the sphere, and scoops it off one set of contacts.
The mouse trap reminds me of some Quickshot sticks that had microswitches in them. They were a marvel, with the force acting *across* a spring and forcing the switch closed. Unsurprisingly the common mode of failure was broken springs. :P
I actually wanna see you review the new razer greens, i think they're manufactured by Greentech, but theres rumours of Kailh too. Having both Cherry Mx blue and Razer Greens, the Razer greens offer a lot more tactility and a much better click too, they also feel very smooth. Just be sure to review the newer revisions, the old revisions had lots of problems.
You should have mentioned, regarding the Futaba Complicated Linear, that you open it by *unscrewing* the legs. That's even weirder than the number of parts, in my opinion.
I have to say your videos keep impressing with their content-richness. I didn't think mechanical keyboard typing sounds and all this knowledge would float my boat so much! Thank you :)
YJ K I have an Epson keyboard with these switches that I quite like. Kind of feel like a buckling spring but with a more resistance throughout the entire key travel. The sound is nice..
Now this could be an optical delusion (illusion) on my part but the last switch Tokie it seems the bearing are different diameters. I would assume the diameter of it plays a role into how much tactility there is. Also looking at the patent sketch they have the white slider ledge so it is sliding down on the contact plate shaped like ] (not the other contact shaped like a V). From the video it looked like you had the slider ledge between the two contact plates. Definitely and interesting idea for a switch.
Coffee Jack No kidding. Those Mousetrap switches look so sweet. Here's another (unlisted?) video that I found of a mousetrap for your viewing and listening pleasure: ua-cam.com/video/sgpi-zfGb9M/v-deo.html
I wish the butterfly switch was still being made as I could really use it for a great idea I had for a keyboard-The keyboard works as normal, however, when you press down harder on an alphanumeric key, a space is generated after it. It might take a while to get used to it, but imagine how quickly you could type. Barring availability of the double-action butterfly switch, you could sand off the bottom of the slider well on a Cherry MX switch and mount it above a mini-tactile dot switch and wire those to the spacebar.
I really must thank you for your channel: You've infected me with your obsession concerning everything keyboard. Also, you responded comprehensively to a previous comment of mine, which is wholly unheard of. I'm into ortholinear ergonomic layouts which I know you don't care for, and have labored for months over layouts, etc.. Finally, I'm pretty satisfied with my endgame kb (a Keebio Iris) except... I thought I'd like Matias Quiet Clicks, which I do, but keycaps are impossible to find affordably (plus the tactility is not nearly sharp enough); so I settled on Kailh Royals, which I don't like at all: Yes, They are very tactile, but the actuation point it way too high and abrupt; followed by a 'thunk' (they feel totally dead). I think when I was young I liked typing on our school's Apple IIcs, which had Alps Salmon/Orange? And my dad had an IBM PC; so I got a model M, which I like well enough, but the travel feels a bit gummy and drops off too much after actuation. I'm fully willing to hand-wire a keyboard if you could please recommend a discrete switch which I could actually find, I thought the Oki Gourd Spring might fit the bill, but I've been combing eBay for months, and can't find any. In any case, thank you so much for your content.
Just when I thought I couldn't be pulled into the depths of the hobby, I can now see myself endlessly seeking Cherry Mousetraps...and those ball bearing switches.
That's not the same company, lol! Here it's the Czech Tesla, long-time maker of all things electronic, including electrolytic capacitors of rather modest longevity. My dad used to have a Tesla tape recorder back in the day... it was pretty crappy, but options on the other side of the Iron Curtain were rather limited. We're so spoiled with choice today.
I thought 'hmm, how much a switch can be weird' before watch. Then, Now I start to believe that there's some kind of devil around us whispering weird things to engineers.XD
I have no idea what the MTBF is! My keyboard is pretty good, but I don't suppose it's as durable as many other designs, no. The best thing of course: imagine they still made them, HOW INCREDIBLY EASY would it be to change them?! :D
Spring over metal ball... Now that takes the cake. My guess as to why one's linear and the other is tactile is from mold differences? Since replicating the switch actuation by hand is not possible, only the housing has the correct stem placement for it, meaning the slight differences in molds could be the reason.
My guess is that the difference between the two Tokai MM9 clones lies in the height of the little plastic lip in relation to the ball at rest. If it's at or below the middle of the ball it will be linear, if it's above it will be tactile.
Sanwa either has the licence from tokai or something else is going on; but Sanwa OBFS buttons use more or less identical switches to the Tokai MM9, only with SANWA as manufacturer of the switches as well as the buttons they come with, longer terminals for wiring the buttons to arcade machine panels and such. I just liked to take apart my arcade stick a lot and look up what the things are and surely enough Sanwa OBFS button switches are the same ball bearing, spring and lip, even the sides that keep the switch in it's mounting place and slider's top part are nearly identical
Linus Tech Tips channel made some time ago a review about strange wearable "keyboard" Tap. Will you also make a review about it? I am sure that it would be a funny video to watch. :)
Chyrosran22 that seems to be happening with everything these days. Look at how Google and Amazon sell their music in the MP3 format even though it very poor in quality and way out of date. AAC and OGG came out ages ago.
Would love to see another "Top 5 Switches" video. Except for the "Top 5 Mechanical Switches still being made". The historical or rare switches is nice to know, but not very practical. Getting a nice list of switches still being produced would be quite useful.
8:58 got one of those recently, you were not lying, they are so addictive to press. What do you think the brown part is made of, is it bakelite (maybe because of the time period) or something else?
The mousetrap reminds me a lot of the internals of the German made Cherry arcade button switches used in old HAPP and IL buttons and sticks from the 90's. Particularly that spring. Edit: this switch I believe: ua-cam.com/video/Vo1rMuFyP94/v-deo.html
I bet you those balls are different weights, and the "linear" version has a heavier ball and a lighter spring, reducing the tactility so much it makes it linear, but having a lighter ball and a heavier spring makes it so the tactility generated by the design Is greater.
GADEEM!!! Tokai MM9 teardown/explanation: ua-cam.com/video/ptk7jXkym7U/v-deo.html
lol
Top 10 best tasting switches
EnvelopeBread try the gamecards ;)
1. Cherry MX Blueberry
2. Cherry MX Blackcurrant
3. Cherry MX Brownie
4. Gateradeon
5. Alps SKCM Orange Juice
6. Tealeaf springs
7. Alps SKCL Sour Cream
8. Alps SKCM Grilled Salmon
9. Cherry MX Red pepper
10. Honeywell Dining hall effect
_im sorry_
Kalih choc
*The people wanna know Thomas*
@@taranzathespiderarchive9877 I love it
9:25-10:05 Ah yes, those are definitely words.
Oh God no
Top 10 keyboards you could beat the shit out of someone with and still work afterwards
MobCat I like your style xD .
IBM Model M
IBM Model F
Symbolics Space Cadet
IBM 5251
IBM 4704
Dell GYUM97SK
Data General Dasher G1
ITT Courier
Acer KB-101A
Epson BFK
Chyron 4044
Apple Extended Keyboard II
Fujitsu N860
Northgate OmniKey ULTRA
That Oki gourd spring is beautiful. It has the hallmarks of tools of the past, even up to old pneumatic tools, with very few moving parts yet perform a function admirably AND with elegant style and simplicity.
7:43 This is the 3D force touch equivalent in switch form. Imagine being able to access a second layer without needing a meta key at all. Imagine the amazing dual legend keycaps indicating what a short press and a long press will generate on the screen.
Several switch families have had double-action key switches. The first revision of the Apple III computer had double-action switches for the arrow keys. The cursor would move faster when you pressed a key all the way to the bottom.
XalphYT double action switches aren't unheard of, but most of them aren't as weirdly built as this one xD .
I thought more about camera buttons that focus with the first contact, and makes a picture with the second, but anyway it would be cool to have on a modern switch! It would be useful too, if you consider how popular are nowadays 60% keyboards and smaller. But I think in future it will be more likely to be implemented on analog switches, like the Wooting One keyboard.
Small letters on a short press and capital letters on a long press would be quite fitting I think. It's like you're inflating the letters you type! And now a single meta key gives you four layers: short press, long press, key + short press, key + long press... Imagine Emacs shortcuts with a keyboard like that.
Tidy HTML, JSLint, remove comments and upload to FTP server: hyper-long-press-H, super-short-press-J, CTRL-short-press-C, CTRL-hyper-long-press-F. Simple, elegant, efficient.
I'm just surprised that the Space Cadet keyboard didn't include a dual activation switch. It would have doubled the number of characters available to the user. Such a wasted opportunity!
What about a top 10 of switches still in mass production?
People shouldn't be so willing to just throw in the towel and cope with sub-par, cheap conformist crap :p . Don't take "not good enough" for an answer! Look at the work Ellipse has done to bring back capacitive buckling springs! What modern switch could POSSIBLY stand up to that? ;)
1. Model F Buckling Springs
2. Unicomp buckling springs
3. Matias Click
4. Any custom NovelKeys "BOX" type switches
5. Topre with BKE domes
@@Chyrosran22 the thing is these kinds of switches are really rare in my country...
@@tristan6509 I had to import mine as well xD .
@TVMisterTero That seems rather narrow-sighted in regards to the current keyboard market. A lot of people build their own keyboards for ergonomic reasons, or to create something more pragmatic to their uses - in that case the _only_ choice is current production switches.
Unless he's referring strictly to active mass commercial production, and excluding things like group buys or common mods - that's just being nitpicky, if he has to I don't think anyone would mind the list being expanded to switches that are _reasonably obtainable_ instead.
Top Best... Top Worst... Top Weirdest... What's next? Top Gear?
VWestlife Don't have enough cars for that :p .
Excellent foreshadowing for Thomas's Top Gear collab
5:57 mind. fucking. blown.
*edit:*
I'd expect it to be inconsistent, with high variability between keys, and perhaps sensitive to dust/crud, but if it isn't we're talking about some admirable engineering! I'd love to see the wells and how it comes together.
Jason Doe if you're interested, I did a detailed review on it :) .
Chyrosran22, thanks, I only sub'ed 2 days ago, so I haven't checked all your videos yet :)
In the tokai it seems that in unpressed position the ball rests only on one contact, because the spring pressing it down is on an offset axis, and when you press down at a certain amount of force the ball curvature over the contact makes the spring tilt sort of like what happens on a buckling spring. The ball seems to be kept on one only contact by two things: the tension of the spring and the little plastic tab on the slider, labeled 30. In my opinion the length of this plastic tab balances those two factors, defining the tactility: if the tab is long (or down) enough the ball is constantly pushing to it, and is forced to go down and right smoothly as the tab going down allows it, giving you a linear or moderate tactility; if this tab gets less authority over the ball (being shorter), the ball will snap over the second contact when the spring buckles, giving you more noise and tactility. At least this is what I understand! It shouldn't be easy to test it without cover, as this kind of design seems to require a really precise positioning of the axis, and this may probably be the cause of the not so great expected lifetime.
Marco Toselli they designed a switch that can't cope with much wear and tear.
I guess their was a lot of how to make a switch that isn't patented yet going on back then.
You allways seem to get weird less practical designs when the market is already full of the common sense patentee designs.
It makes completely sense that they tried to design something that wouldn't violate some existing copyright! However I don't see it as a bad thing but quite the opposite, differentiation is always a good thing, because not everyone likes the same thing. Maybe if it would have got a little more success there could have been more improvements that would make it a really nice and cheap switch, kind of like all the improvements and differentiation done in the recent years to the good old cherry mx design.
Or maybe simply the japanese colture is attracted by shiny metallic balls, as you can see today by the "japanese polished foil ball"!
@@karellen00 patent not copyright
Top 10 switch modifications
Top 10 switches you wish were still produced
Top 10 most durable switches
Top 10 rarest switches
Chyrosran's response, probably:
- Mods to Alps switches (and a callback to the AT101 Bigfoot video where you can mod Salmon Alps).
Edit: and YOK Panda switch lines, as well as O-Rings, stem swaps, etc.
- Pine Alps and Buckling Spring keyboards, Fujitsu leafsprings, and a few Foam-and-foil switches, maybe Vintage MX Black if he feels like temporarily alienating his viewerbase.
- Switches manufactured by the Soviet Union, hall effect switches (like the APT ones), GK Libra Bloody/Razer Optomechanical switches.
- *_digs up single switch collection_* "The ones I don't have" (probably NMB Space Invaders, also known as Hi-Tek 725s)
Here's hoping that someone can pass Thomas an idea or two on how those magical Japanese ball and spring switches work. They look like a fun design. It's a pity they're only rated for two million actuations.
"only two million"
@@pico4996 2 million is minuscule
So Marquardt had force touch before Apple?
Hearing you say 'fucked-up lepidopterist' was a treat. Actually, the whole video was. Top work as always.
Worst built keyboards
Go to any store and pick the first ten keyboards that you see, or visit amazon.com and click on the first ten keyboards that you find. They will be all bad keyboards.
ZX Spectrum, ZX81, Atari 400, Oric-1, IBM PC Jr., Commodore 116, Jupiter Ace, KC85, Enterprise64 to name a few bad homecomputer keyboards. Some bad by concept already, some additionally by build quality.
alphabet soup is a better keyboard
@@segarallychampionship702 Nah, those Amstrads he showed are built way worse.
CKT1138 Amstrad PCW
You know what's weird? Calling mx browns tactile.
I know right, it's absurd!
Strangely, I actually kinda think it would be cool to have a few of these switch types, namely the Tesla Hall Effect and the Mouse Trap.
Last one seems to be the keyboard version of the switches used in most Japanese 30mm arcade buttons. Btw unlikely request, but I'd be interested to see the FANUC System P Model G down the road for a review or something.
It's here!
Edit: What in the BLOODY HELL is that last one!? I've never been more confused in this hobby in my life!
This is the very first video I've seen from you, and I have to say:
GOOD DAMN! That smooth voice is like butter to my ears!
I would listen to you reading the package leaflet of an hemorrhoids cream with joy!
6:41 not only its an impailed butterfly,
but also every keystroke squashishes it! 7:03
Perfect!
Hi Chyrosran, can you make a top 10 best (in your opinion of course) switches that consumer can buy right now? some of the switch in your top list is so old it's hard to track them down. Thank you.
Good idea, not everyone is willing to track down and then clean and maintain antique stitches.
ash24042 I just don't think it'd be very interesting Oo .
If you can show more than just cherry and cherry clones, it could interest a lot of people I think
But it would be about switches that I by definition think aren't the best! :p
that's true.. maybe a top "less bad" switches then :D
"Wh... what the hell Japan?!" Never thought I'd hear something so needed in my life.
Hey !
I searched but I did not find which switch you used in your intro. Can you tell me?
I love your vids! The best voice ever.
Life BANANANAAA thank you! It's Alps SKCM Blue.
Keys being able to click more than one times when are being pushed down are actually used quite often in photo cameras: pushing down until the first click result in auto-focus being activated, and pushing down further results in the actual photo taking. Anyway I'm curious where did you find that key, because it was rather big. Much bigger than the one you may encounter in today's cameras.
How about top loudest/most silent switches?
I love how many keyswitches seem to have been actually produced just because somebody came up with something that could conceivably work, not because there is any particularly good reason for it.
Ur voice is so soothing
Could the ball (or contacts) in the Tokai switch be magnetised? It would explain the short lifespan anyway...
PS. Do you have any idea why Amkey F&F switches are so smooth and non mushy? Unlike any other F&F I tried...
I'd guess that it's either the spring diameter or a difference in the slider geometry.
The contacts are not magnetised, I'm pretty sure. Definitely not to any apparent degree.
It looks very temperamental in that a little wear or bend in the slider or contacts could stop it working.
I'm beyond amazed it even works to begin with to be honest! xD
Chyrosran22 My other though is that when inside the case, the spring bottom slides down the front of the sphere, and scoops it off one set of contacts.
The mouse trap reminds me of some Quickshot sticks that had microswitches in them. They were a marvel, with the force acting *across* a spring and forcing the switch closed. Unsurprisingly the common mode of failure was broken springs. :P
top 10 keycap sets (not talking about all those aftermarket sets) but the awesome THICC ones vintage boards have
I actually wanna see you review the new razer greens, i think they're manufactured by Greentech, but theres rumours of Kailh too.
Having both Cherry Mx blue and Razer Greens, the Razer greens offer a lot more tactility and a much better click too, they also feel very smooth.
Just be sure to review the newer revisions, the old revisions had lots of problems.
Pedro Martins the Razer switches were originally made by Kaihua, Greetech joined production much later. Yeah, I may well review them one day :) .
You should have mentioned, regarding the Futaba Complicated Linear, that you open it by *unscrewing* the legs. That's even weirder than the number of parts, in my opinion.
I have to say your videos keep impressing with their content-richness. I didn't think mechanical keyboard typing sounds and all this knowledge would float my boat so much! Thank you :)
11:23
if theres any higher resolution version of this image, i might be able to decipher what it says
im native japanese
top 9...
Why did you choose top 9?!
nik khairun worked better that way :p
Could have been worse, could have been top π weirdest switches, at least he chose a rational integer to stop at
Top 10 most DELICIOUS switches
I... like the peerless sound...
YJ K I have an Epson keyboard with these switches that I quite like. Kind of feel like a buckling spring but with a more resistance throughout the entire key travel. The sound is nice..
Fujitsu peerless are actually very smooth when in new condition. AFAIK the mechanism that generates the click sound is not well understood.
Now this could be an optical delusion (illusion) on my part but the last switch Tokie it seems the bearing are different diameters. I would assume the diameter of it plays a role into how much tactility there is.
Also looking at the patent sketch they have the white slider ledge so it is sliding down on the contact plate shaped like ] (not the other contact shaped like a V). From the video it looked like you had the slider ledge between the two contact plates. Definitely and interesting idea for a switch.
#2! Nice! The 2nd weirdest switch ever was my first keyboard!
Gabe Bol ITW magvalve? They're very rare on PC-compatible keyboards xD .
w o w .
lmao at the box royal in the center 0:10
Ten 10 (or 5) vintage keyboards? In terms of the build quality, layout, sound enhancement, etc. Would be lovely.
I like how I looked up about switches I wanted to buy now I'm here, on my 3rd video and can't stop watching.
Damn, would love to test out Cherry mousetrap and the Oki tactile gourd springs. (inside actual keyboards).
Coffee Jack No kidding. Those Mousetrap switches look so sweet. Here's another (unlisted?) video that I found of a mousetrap for your viewing and listening pleasure: ua-cam.com/video/sgpi-zfGb9M/v-deo.html
That's HaaTa. He's the one who originally brought the switches to my attention. He also measured their force curve.
I love the way you say hideous
I wish the butterfly switch was still being made as I could really use it for a great idea I had for a keyboard-The keyboard works as normal, however, when you press down harder on an alphanumeric key, a space is generated after it. It might take a while to get used to it, but imagine how quickly you could type. Barring availability of the double-action butterfly switch, you could sand off the bottom of the slider well on a Cherry MX switch and mount it above a mini-tactile dot switch and wire those to the spacebar.
I really must thank you for your channel: You've infected me with your obsession concerning everything keyboard. Also, you responded comprehensively to a previous comment of mine, which is wholly unheard of. I'm into ortholinear ergonomic layouts which I know you don't care for, and have labored for months over layouts, etc.. Finally, I'm pretty satisfied with my endgame kb (a Keebio Iris) except... I thought I'd like Matias Quiet Clicks, which I do, but keycaps are impossible to find affordably (plus the tactility is not nearly sharp enough); so I settled on Kailh Royals, which I don't like at all: Yes, They are very tactile, but the actuation point it way too high and abrupt; followed by a 'thunk' (they feel totally dead). I think when I was young I liked typing on our school's Apple IIcs, which had Alps Salmon/Orange? And my dad had an IBM PC; so I got a model M, which I like well enough, but the travel feels a bit gummy and drops off too much after actuation. I'm fully willing to hand-wire a keyboard if you could please recommend a discrete switch which I could actually find, I thought the Oki Gourd Spring might fit the bill, but I've been combing eBay for months, and can't find any. In any case, thank you so much for your content.
Just when I thought I couldn't be pulled into the depths of the hobby, I can now see myself endlessly seeking Cherry Mousetraps...and those ball bearing switches.
Me: What's your favourite switch?
ITW magnetic valve owner: ITW magnetic valve
Me: Cool, how do they work?
ITW magnetic valve owner: 9:25
Me: Yes
Tesla went from making switches to making cars... very interesting
That's not the same company, lol! Here it's the Czech Tesla, long-time maker of all things electronic, including electrolytic capacitors of rather modest longevity. My dad used to have a Tesla tape recorder back in the day... it was pretty crappy, but options on the other side of the Iron Curtain were rather limited. We're so spoiled with choice today.
I thought 'hmm, how much a switch can be weird' before watch. Then, Now I start to believe that there's some kind of devil around us whispering weird things to engineers.XD
Oki nails it. What's the MTBF for those? I imagine they get banged out of shape pretty quickly, relatively speaking.
I have no idea what the MTBF is! My keyboard is pretty good, but I don't suppose it's as durable as many other designs, no. The best thing of course: imagine they still made them, HOW INCREDIBLY EASY would it be to change them?! :D
Yeh
You should dremel out a little hole in one of those MM9 switches and see if you can catch the switch working while assembled.
Spring over metal ball... Now that takes the cake. My guess as to why one's linear and the other is tactile is from mold differences? Since replicating the switch actuation by hand is not possible, only the housing has the correct stem placement for it, meaning the slight differences in molds could be the reason.
Make a top 10 "best switches" video disregarding the switch type.
Yo is that a BOX Royal in the center at 0:10 ?
RainbowCornet Yes.
Would love to see a review of a Ducky keyboard.
Sweet sweet night video....
Do a video on the worlds oldest keyboard thats isn't a typewriter.
My guess is that the difference between the two Tokai MM9 clones lies in the height of the little plastic lip in relation to the ball at rest. If it's at or below the middle of the ball it will be linear, if it's above it will be tactile.
Sanwa either has the licence from tokai or something else is going on; but Sanwa OBFS buttons use more or less identical switches to the Tokai MM9, only with SANWA as manufacturer of the switches as well as the buttons they come with, longer terminals for wiring the buttons to arcade machine panels and such. I just liked to take apart my arcade stick a lot and look up what the things are and surely enough Sanwa OBFS button switches are the same ball bearing, spring and lip, even the sides that keep the switch in it's mounting place and slider's top part are nearly identical
I love that OKI single spring design. Bucking frilliant!!!
Linus Tech Tips channel made some time ago a review about strange wearable "keyboard" Tap. Will you also make a review about it? I am sure that it would be a funny video to watch. :)
Pehmokettu That proped up in the last 24 hours.
Have yet to watch myslef though.
What i find a bit strange is the variation in designs.
Office workers and home owners really were picky about their switches.
Coffee Jack all the more surprising how people aren't picky at all anymore nowadays, right?
Chyrosran22 that seems to be happening with everything these days.
Look at how Google and Amazon sell their music in the MP3 format even though it very poor in quality and way out of date.
AAC and OGG came out ages ago.
Can we get a Top X worst keyboards video?
Came here to find out what switches were in a CNC machine keyboard that I found today..... Futaba MD apparently lol
Can you please review the box royals when they come out
Matt Yang There's a Teardown of them coming out on Monday :) .
Chyrosran22 omg thanks!
Top 10 best/worst named switches!!
I knew the moment that Ars did a keyboard article linking to a UA-cam video, this is where I was ending up.
Top Switches you can buy today. :) Very nice videos, thanks for making them!
his swear only is enough for me to subscribe
LOL. Jesus Biscuit-baking Christ!
went from a simple mouse trap to a fucking nuclear generator thing
Would love to see another "Top 5 Switches" video. Except for the "Top 5 Mechanical Switches still being made". The historical or rare switches is nice to know, but not very practical. Getting a nice list of switches still being produced would be quite useful.
That mousaetrap switch operates exactly the same way a common microswitch does.
2:00 are these bad as simplified/low profile linears
Have you tested the impact the slider notch has on the spring when pre-compressed by the casing? Would the spring getting kinked explain the magic?
7:53 its the longest travel autofocus shutter button
i, today, have throw springs into a rubber dome keyboard replacing its dome, its a linear keyboard now
This guy is probably making millions of asmr
This is beyond comprehensible.
Top 10 best Keycap sets.
Not excluding ones only available only from preassembled keyboards.
8:58 got one of those recently, you were not lying, they are so addictive to press.
What do you think the brown part is made of, is it bakelite (maybe because of the time period) or something else?
Funny enough, the Tokai MM9 switches are used in some Japanese arcade buttons. Specifically old Seimitsu buttons.
Your voice gives me asmr
Video idea: Top X best keyboards ever made
Tokai MM9 are similar to Sanwa Denshi SW68 switches used in arcade cabinets. If not identical. i wonder which one is the original?
"fucked up lepidopterist"
I love this video even though I didn't understand a single word
To hell with this child!
as russian i have that some weird-proud-feeling for tesla switches
ya, we overengineered a lot of shit years ago, and now screwed
winner winner chicken dinner, you never fail to amaze and entertain me Thomas. As always great video and Thanks.
Why can't they make memchanical boards with that Oki tactile gourd spring instead? How much cooler would that be?
I'll answer it for you: much.
Top X keyboards look for at yard sales and thift stores! 😊
The mousetrap reminds me a lot of the internals of the German made Cherry arcade button switches used in old HAPP and IL buttons and sticks from the 90's. Particularly that spring.
Edit: this switch I believe:
ua-cam.com/video/Vo1rMuFyP94/v-deo.html
nr. 5 Clicky sound was awesome !
I bet you those balls are different weights, and the "linear" version has a heavier ball and a lighter spring, reducing the tactility so much it makes it linear, but having a lighter ball and a heavier spring makes it so the tactility generated by the design Is greater.
I've seen the mousetrap one in an LGR video
WalfasProject8000 Thanks for the heads up! That was a very pleasing 10-second video to watch.
Top ten best burning Switches please
9:55 WTF ITS A KEYBOARD!
#8 16 parts for a linear switch
#5 1 part for a clicky, tactile switch
excuse me, what the fuck