Will The Garage-Built 4G63 Survive 25PSI of Boost On The Dyno?
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2022
- Go to expressvpn.com/gingium to find out how you can get 3 months of ExpressVPN free! Today we take the mid-engine Eclipse to the dyno! Finally! After 3 motors, countless hours building, and a lot of headaches. The car immediately starts having issues, but we eventually fix it and make a few pulls. But, does the motor survive?
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Manifold becoming cherry red,usually something wrong with the timing...
I have a feeling that the fault is with Valve timing.
Yeah true
For sure
The engine sounds very forced too
It can be. Tons of eMAP associated with 25psi of boost can also cause lots of heat absorption to the manifold. Prolonged, this will absolutely cause steel tubing to glow red even though everything it running right.
This car however, you're probably right, it's got problems for sure.
@@Saltyoldguy- but producing 25psi boost with only 200WHP is a clear sign that all is not well. They need to forensically look into the valve timing, not just the Factory Service manual belt to gear line up relationship. They need to check valve opening/closing points ...LCA, max valve loft points ...the whole gammut! Especially since these are aftermarket cam profiles. All the best to them tho. Hope the engine isn't hurt from the experience on the Dyno tho. Exhaust valves suffer badly with excessive retardation of the valve event timing.
How the Dyno people's didn't see that it was a timing issue is a red flag. Probably 180 out.
Honestly what tuner goes "turbo is spooling way too fast... better run it WOT a few more times"
@@LifeInJambles last video Caleb "fixed" the timing issues last video and got it to sit at base timing. So the tuner could check all he wanted. The timing is supposed to be good. And that's what the timing light is going to say. This is without a doubt a engine builder issue.
@@PedroPioLopes whether it's timing or something else, you shouldn't be doing WOT pulls with boost out of control. They both fucked something up, and Caleb has updated Patreon that nothing seems broken, but that's pure luck and engine management safeties honestly. Even if you're testing out possible fixes for a boost creep on an engine with safeties, you should be approaching with caution.... and even if the person who built the engine insists timing is on, you should have serious suspicions about the timing when boost starts creeping that hard, especially cause you should know what size wastegate is likely to be appropriate for this size turbo, and seeing it double spring pressure without boost control should be an instant stop and check for potatoes in the tailpipe or timing issues that someone thinks got fixed.
@@LifeInJambles fair enough. The way I see it, Caleb should have paid a serious shop to build him a proper engine instead of hodge podging whatever he had kicking around multiple times. Along side many other things. As cool as the concept of the whole build is, it's not up to par with something you're going to give away to a person who very possibly has 0 knowledge in terms of mechanics.
@@PedroPioLopes Agreed.
All the symptoms of timing being extremely retarded, low power, high EGT's and a lot more boost than expected. I would definitely start by checking base timing before doing anything drastic
that or cam timing. Turbo cams usually don't have a lot of overlap, and it sounds like there is a bunch of overlap. maybe the timing belt is off a tooth?
My thoughts exactly. He probably already has it figured out. Can't wait for the next vid. :D
Yup. All symptoms of combustion pushing its way into the exhaust after bdc rather than pushing the cylinder down. Not great advertisement for a tuner who doesn't immediately check timing with those symptoms. If it doesn't look like timing is wrong (check exhaust cam for advance too) find another source of signal and check again.
You can hear the motor needs more advance usually will have sound like it wont roll over when rpm ramps , really surprised tuner didn’t see it in the curve or afrs
Same thing I was thinking. Ignition timing or mechanical timing must be off.
I have a tundra with the same transmission and engine. EVERYONE in the forums says that you should turn off the overdrive when towing. Mileage may be a bit worse, but it will save your transmission from constantly seeking/down shifting.
Replying to make sure he sees this
100%. The engines (2UZ-FEs) are amazing but those 4-speeds are definitely not the best. My dad has an 01 Tundra and even with 155k it feels like the transmission is going bad, and we haven’t towed a whole lot with it. Just have to be careful with those things
same way with my chevy, 4 spped trans, only goes to 3rd when towing
@@nikdelano Do a transmission service. Drop the pan, pull and replace the screen/filter and refill fluid with Toyota approved fluid. They aren't the strongest transmissions ever, but the are super dependable and a fluid/filter service often shows immediate results in shifting/smoothness and over all feel.
Once he hooked up the trailer i thought, i bet hes gonna tow in overdrive. I tow with our sequoia all the time. Definetly have to manually shift it and stay our of 4th. Doesnt do too bad.
I think this happened to someone recently and they had the crank gear on backward throwing the timing off making the exhaust so hot.
I was going to comment this. It happened to Jimmy Oakes on the dyno, I can’t remember what car it was though.
@@erices1.6t yes it was Jimmy O and it was on a sr20
Didn’t he have an issue with setting his base timing in one of the other videos? I’ll bet it’s something like this
He already swapped that. Check last vid
@@MattiaFTW I think that was the Crank angle trigger wheel orientation. I'm betting that there is a Valve timing issue problem causing the High EGTs
Redo the valve timing. And replace all the gaskets. And while at it, start designing your roof scoop system. I’m personally nudged towards scooping drive wind from under the car and blasting it out on the top. Should impact your drive performance positively on high speeds too.
Good idea
It would need vents for the air to go out so it’s not a giant parachute.
If pulling from beneath, I'd make an undertray and give it a little ground effect.. but with something so odd, it'd take a whole lot more R&D than I think Caleb is looking to put into it. I'd prefer something there to not have random rocks bouncing around the engine compartment though, definitely.
Great ideas. I am sad with so much knowledge you have zero related videos on your channel. I feel like we need some videos so we can all learn for your expertise. Thanks!
@@eriklarson9137 And there's the salty comment... Thank you for the joy you spread.
Definitely look into that timing man those exhaust valves are gonna get cooked along with the turbo, hope you get it sorted dude 👍
Try a tuner that tunes 4g63s, not miatas. For 25 of boost to make 220whp means my man has like 5 degrees of timing in it, burning it all in the exahaust manifold instead of the engine. This creates aditional boost as well since it's almost as rolling antilag, or launch control. The 12psi spring would probably function as one opening by itselft at 20 + some backpressure pressing on the wastagte as well.
New tuner since he couldn't figure out the issue.
We figured out the issue! We suspected base timing was off despite it being synced before the Dyno.
Afterwards we found an 11° retard in timing.
That's the issue!
@@MrCrash12190 still, the tuner should have found that by himself
@@mihailpetrovici5044 the tuner did find that out. The tuner was told multiples times base timing was correct, so he trusted the information he had available at the time.
@@MrCrash12190 ok, gingium fault then
OP speaks truths
A bit disappointed to see that you just kept trying to dyno after problems presented themselves considering how much trouble this build has given you. It seems like you have a lot of smart folks here in the comments saying it's a timing issue. Love the build hope the health check shows no problems.
I'm on the Patreon and the engine looks great despite what happened to it, incredibly lucky in the unluck.
Thanks for that update man. That's awesome of you to do.
Caleb, I very much admire your courage to take on just about anything! But you've got to stop cutting corners.
If you would have contacted a well respected tuner who had experience with this engine, he would not have risked damaging the engine even if you begged him to. And he would be able to find your problem. You must calibrate all sensors and triple check the timing before even starting the car on a build like this.
Agreed
I doubt he thought he was cutting any corners. Everything is a learning experience.
@@AutoMotivate blowing up the fourth motor is gonna be a helluva learning experience lmao
@@bocaj949 he hasn’t blown it up this way tho..
he is getting a full degree worth of knowledge here 😂
As soon as he said 'with only a few hours available for us to tune' I thought oh god no hahaha
Agreed with a few comments above, did you sync base timing with the link? I have had that be the cause of this exact problem on an RB26 with a standalone before.
I'm sensing a theme with this build:
Not checking everything properly and destroying the engine
Hold up, he is checking everything to the best of his ability. Expecting him to be completely perfect from the beginning is ignorant thinking.
@@AutoMotivate There is a consistent pattern however of taking short cuts and not taking the proper time to make sure things are done correctly. Can’t blame inexperience on shit work ethic…
@@AutoMotivate He hired a "Miata only" tuner to tune his Eclipse LOL
@@charles3111 I could imagine this pressure to finish the car comes whether from his sponsor or he believes from the winner/ his "fans" who wanna see this thing finished. I mean he had a very strict plan to finish this thing super fast and had to delay the giveaway several times. I think maybe it's that what pressures him a little and we all know pressure makes you make mistakes..
I'm sure he'll find a way to get this thing to the end :P
No need to be dicks, I think it's easy to watch youtube videos on the absolute best on the internet at said craft and get unrealistic standards. He's pretty skilled and has a lot of experience with a lot of different things and has done more than most in their lifetimes, as far as building vehicles. But like, not everybody has built ten thousand engines and has the best 4g tuner in the world the next street over, ya know? Lots of moving parts in this build, it'd kinda be surprising imo if he built the car, basically from scratch, and didn't have some kinks to work out. He'll get it sorted
From what I've watched in the last video,i believe you failed at the part of setting the timing belt tensioner up...its a tedious process that you definitely didn't do. The fsm is very specific and i think you forget the most important step, and it jumped. Ill assume burned valve and i can't wait to see if the Pistons melted or not cause oem would have liquidfied . You won't take my advice with protecting the fuel cell,or putting the intake brace on that u left off so that won't be a leak later cause that intake is heavy to be hanging by mani bolts alone.i try helping u but u found a miata specialist?!
i love how you still tried to dyno it, even when engine almost melted itself
He stopped after realizing. He can't go back and check the footage, and Yanni can't see exactly what's going on either with the motor behind him. Chill out
@@AutoMotivate and this laptop and data is just for decoration
@@wrubel100 agreed, I think he was ill-educated on the proper timing on this motor.
Wow! That jump to Canton, GA was amazing! I haven't seen one of your videos in a while, and that edit was awesome to me! Glad to see how much you've improved!
🏎💨
That's too bad. Hopefully it's not anything catastrophic. Love this build and you're learning so much now that your next build will benefit greatly.
2:40
Time to 5 speed manual swap the Sequoia
At this point just K SWAP it call it a day!! 😂
100 percent correct !!! K24a k20a would be way less issues and spank this motor ...
Wow I mean, this was def a trial by fire for your engine build! Glad it held together and I hope there are no lasting issues. My guess would be physical timing is off by a tooth or two causing excess fuel to dump into the exhaust. Best of luck dude!
Big man can't catch a break with 4g63s
Definitely seems like total lack of ignition timing
Was the "Miatas only" thing from the tuner a joke? If not, why is he trying to tune a 100% custom built one of a kind Mitsubishi?
Regardless, he doesn't seem to know what he is doing, just kept pushing the car despite something obviously being really wrong. You're lucky he didn't blow it up.
Next time get a professional to do it
Word
You got this Caleb, just keep going 💪
Thanks for videos like this! Good to see when things don’t quite work out. Just like anyone else’s real life projects.
Dang man I’m excited to see her perform how she’s suppose to but you know how it goes bro keep ya head up and keep grinding it out my guy
Dude that exhaust is ridiculous
Keep your head up
And now you know what to fix, can't wait for next vid.
Man do I miss the sound of a 4g. I had a 1992 Plymouth Colt hatchback that I swapped a 4g63t into with all kinds of mods and it was an absolute rocket. I also had a fbo 1990 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD, a 1989 Eagle Summit GTS with a NA 4g61, a 1990 Plymouth Colt hatchback with a real Dodge Colt GT 4g61t with all 4g63t turbo components. My 92 Colt made 408 whp on 18 psi on a real MHI Evo III B16g turbo and HKS 272 cams. I miss them all so much.
The penny just won't drop when it comes to heat build up at the front of the engine. Gingium can't say people haven't tried to tell him. Does he think all those scoops and intakes on mid-engined production cars are for looks? ETA >> right at the start of the vid I thought to myself - "are they going to rig a fan to blow over the exhaust side of the engine?" - nah, it'll be fine. ETA 2 >> only solution that suggests itself is a roof scoop, but that would need ducts that would obscure the bulkhead window.
Not if they're mr2 style ducts
It’s a timing issue for sure, it’s making way to little power
@@AllDayToyota ¿Por qué no los dos?
@@AllDayToyota It's going to be glowing nicely a lot of time even if the motor is set up perfectly.
A quick bit of basic math;
Gingium is aiming for 500HP or 375kW. Most IC petrol engines are c. 25-30% efficient hence the engine will produce up to 280kW of heat. *280,000w.* That's 140 2kW room heaters all in that little space. Most goes out the exhaust, hence the light show from that header with almost no air flow to carry those 10's of 1000's of watts of heat away.
A lot of mid-engine supercars (mostly Italian ones) developed a reputation for bursting into flames precisely because of these issues.
He will need to do something proper about the cooling.
Love the build and the work that has gone into doing it right with the suspension and safety. I just want to say that up front...but I think it sounds like a tractor. Not a fan of the exhaust note at all.
Agreed
Same, i think its because the engine just sounds lazy. Defiantly seems like the timing is off or something
Lol facts sounds so bad
So glad it’s not just me that thinks this
@@BimmerDude timing is definitely retarded. Exhaust might sound better once it's sorted, if the valves aren't already cooked.. I am curious how a curly-cue straight pipe will sound, but my preference for functional nonsense gives me a real prejudice against this semi-bosozoku tomfoolery from the get-go.
Love your vids, hope everything is ok and its only a timing issue. My Volvo 850 slipped timing belt so now I am without a working car. Hope your build will be without major issue 😜
Good job on getting this one to where it is guys. Definitely mechanically verify the timing marks versus TDC and the offset set of marks on the crank pulley then verify it with a timing light versus the ECU.
Those bigger tires you put on really killed the towing power
Cam timing is definetely and issue here. There's been a most recent example of this with Jimmy Oakes with the KA24DE in the honda. 4G63s are an absolute PITA to time WITHOUT the proper cam lock tool. I can guarantee the timing marks look lined up but they're not, they're slighty pointed upwards. I know this because I've had the same issue until I bought the cam lock tool.
@gingium please read this man’s advice because that’s EXACTLY your problem. You’re blowing your ignition into the exhaust manifold. It will be a disaster if you don’t act on this.
4g63 is easy to time, no need for a cam lock tool. If timing is correct, it's possible the CAS is 180 out. Either way, he needs to check base timing before troubleshooting any further.
@@sethmo38 that’s another thing is cas 180 out. And maybe you have good luck because I have never had good luck timing without the tool. Because with the cams lined up there’s pressure on a set of valves on both cams pushing it out of time. Get the tool and never have to worry again.
@@sethmo38 on the build video he times it with two wrenches and a vice grip like no lol
@@DroopyBuilds I didn't watch that part of the video closely, I'll go back and watch. I always used clips just prevent the belt from coming off and two open ended wrenches on the cam gear bolts to adjust the timing marks and I've never had any issues with timing on my cars. A cam lock might make it a bit easier, but the 4g63 isn't overly complicated, not like it's a BMW n54 or anything, those things are a real pita.
LET'S GOOOO!! The ninja intro to the ad got me.. ask and you shall receive 🤙🏿
That really sucks that you weren't able to get any really good results during the dyno season. I think that you should switch to a different turbo and waste gate. Precision turbo and turbo smart waste gate.
I know I am not a tuner, I have no idea what I would be doing. However if I saw 20lbs of boost and less than 175 hp after a handful of pulls some tuning already I'd figure something is up.
I know you'll get this figured out, you always do. Keep up the great work!!
This is probably the last 4g63 caleb is going to touch
check if your fixed timing on the ECU matches the base timing on the engine.
Love you videos Casey!
For towing you should change out the rear end for a lower gear ratio
Love your attitude these days! Old caleb would've been so sad! this just adds more story to the eclipse saga!
Wix filters are the best, love to see it
Good luck bro! Hopeful simple fix
Timing is definitely the culprit. Also a tow rig that gets you 5 mpg is definitely not the answer. Even with no od that 5 mpg will drop further. You may not want to but the search for a better tow rig needs to be started already. Great video btw. You’ll get it.
Those Toyota's with a magnaflow magnapack sound great
Oh she’s nasty dude . What a build . One of the fastest cars I was ever in was 500 hp awd talon tsi
Very good job man 😎🙄
Hey Caleb, do you have a brake controller in there? Federal law is 3500 lbs including trailer. If you ever got pulled over you're probably on that tight line
man i miss my 4g63, i have one in a dodge d50 pickup
MAN... he just can't catch a break😢
Hang in there. You are awesome at details. Love your content but want more.
So I was putting together a 1983 toyota pickup up and when I put the thing together I plugged the pcv and the vent on the valve cover and it was creating to much crank pressure. I talked to an older dragrace gentleman and he told me that the positive crank pressure pushes oil through the rings and the oil mixed with the gas getting ignited was making it burn too hot. It burning to hot didn't make it more eficiente or gain any power . It just made my header piping hot. To the point I could see it in broad day light. I remember you were having issues in one of the video when you tried running it with out a catch can it's probably not venting enough
Show us the Gauge cluster more dude!!!! All I really want to see!
Ive seen this with the ignition timing being off.. all of your symptoms.. shoot a timing light and make sure your are reading 5° btdc
I feel like if you aren't a die hard dsm guy I usually see alot of trial and error. Kinda like people who hate old DATSUNS that know nothing of the old school efi. I mean via a potentiometer off an afm and having a thermo time switch work with that in conjunction to get a proper injector pulse width. If you nail your essentials it'll be fine. Sometimes these things are really touchy with fuel perimeters and boost. OEM 4g likes its oem boost levels, piping, and working with the balance shaft or deleting it. There's alot of factors to these things. It ain't the everyday Honda boy set up. I can't wait to see what happened tho. Im rooting for you Caleb. It's a tough egg to crack but a glorious one once it's figured out
I kinda wish this wasn’t a give away car, I personally think it should stay in the channel, but mostly, with how many issues it keeps having especially being the first car you’ve done something quite crazy like this on, it’ll likely have problems in the future.
Personally gingium. You let the money get to you. You knew people would’ve been excited about the build and that someone would’ve been excited to win the car, giveaway time, using the excitement to entice people to purchase stuff for a chance to win.
The old Caleb that had that Subaru wagon wouldn’t have done this. That’s the Caleb I started watching. I’m glad you’ve come to where you are today man, truly I am.
But I subbed because you gave me hope for me being able to do stuff in my driveway or with the bare minimum. Like when you painted that FC RX7 nardo grey. Now everything is in this fancy dancy shop with all these fancy dancy tools. But let’s be honest, this channel was never about “what you could do in your driveway” you’ve come a long way, gingium. Don’t let money change you, man. You’re doing very well for yourself, and I might take that idea with the RX7
I have a 1989 foxbody I might do nardo grey outside and a white engine bay. Except I’ll probably do bronze wheels
Yo, can't fault someone for supporting themselves. Nothing wrong with ads, sponsorships, raffles, etc. imo; you're getting fantastic content that is FREE. Those things let him allow that. And so he's giving a car away. While it was a raffle, a winner should expect some level of being hands-on with this car. You can't win a car like this and hate him for it, really, no matter what happens. And also, he's just growing - as an online presence and his level of skill in everything here. That's not only building engines, that's managing the business aspect of a channel, videography and editing software, etc. That's what you inherently do when you're dedicating so much time and effort to something - you're learning and expanding
And he built his garage. Have you seen those videos? It was pretty trashed before. He did that nearly by himself and did an incredible job. Who wouldn't want garage space like that, coming from a driveway. "Fancy dancy" feels an awful lot like you're overlooking the wild amount of effort he put into that shit. And if your entire life is fabrication and automotive content like this, why would it ever not make sense to buy tools that make all of that much easier
It's just a raffle. Some people get merch they like, a person wins a car, Caleb makes some money to allow him to build shit and make content for you, a raffle company probably makes some money. There's no victims there and sounds like a win win to me
Good luck with the mustang, bronze wheels are my favorite
Piston return spring? ChrisFix would be proud 😂
Why the hell did tuner not check base timing?
I have a 2006 Toyota Tundra Limited and it's basically the same as your SUV, but a truck. The 5-speed automatic from 2005-2006 has an extra gear that should solve your problem!
It's highly unlikely excessive heat will damage a turbo, other than cracking the turbine housing. The car would still run relatively fine with the cracks that could develop after a few dyno pulls.
use the column shifter to downshift to 3 when towing up hills or use tow haul mode if it has it. my truck has such a tall 4th i tow in 3 instead of OD getts better millage in 3 on highway than 4 even tho the rpms are higfher becauise the engine is closer to where it makes power so its not lugging the engine
I rebuilt a motor and did it by the book check all the clearances used quality parts and a good machine shop and I changed my oil after like a 30 minute then after 3,000 miles and it was only sparkly but now chunks not even small ones
That shop should have known it was a timing issue, unless you told them you had it spot on, I'd say that's on them.
0:15 Caleb learns all his "engine builders" have been lying to him about metal chunks, hahaha.
Shoulda used a Crown vic for towing, mine still gets 16MPG while towing a focus on a trailer
I'd be a bit upset with the tuner. He should have confirmed base timing across the board first up before going and giving the beans. Most tuners are super conservative on a new engine run. He seemed to just send it
Surprised he doesn't have a legit oil temperature gauge on that engine. I would definitely install one before trying to dyno it again. I have a nice Stack Pro gauge on my Miata and it gives me great peace of mind.
Can we find a way to buy Him a flashlight for working on the cars so he does not use his phone an possibly dropping it in the oil haha
I'm starting to think the eclipse has a curse on her... nice car tho!
Wow next engine
My piston return spring 😂😂😂
I thought that was just the go go light going off lmao it was the manifold
I forgot to ask last video, but seeing it again reminded me... What happened to the driver's side door?
No dyno session really goes smoothly tho lol
The Sequoia either needs more power and torque along with better gearing, or you need a better tow rig. 2nd gen Dodge Cummins would be my recommendation, but if you want an suv I’d say a Suburban/Denali with a 6.0
Do not get a 2nd gen cummins we all know them things are all clapped and blown trannies😂 I like the denali 6.0 better hell even a 5.7 hemi would tow that car no problem
that big tires killing you mpg
Exhaust cam timing is off. Hanging the exhaust valves open to long and causing excessive heat in the manifold, thus resulting in lack of power.
Get up with RIX RACING. He is the man. He can tune it remotely as you drive it. Had my car done in less than an hour. ALL they do is 4g63.
Timing is off?
that manifold had no air flowing around it
That sequoia should not be struggling to tow the eclipse. But maybe do a couple mods to the engine. Nothing crazy maybe help it breath better whether it's intake or exhaust or both. Is it a 4 speed plus overdrive or just 4 speed 🤔 if it has an overdrive then find away to turn it off. Or Maybe drop down to 3 gear around town or going up hills. It's not rocket science brother.
Danger to manifold!
I think they make tuners for those for towing
If you put up the pop up headlights it would have more power.
This is almost guaranteed to be a timing issue, you could tell just by the way to pull sounded its not right. He should have absolutely cut that pull short and checked timing.
Exhaust potentially causing back pressure ?
Looks a lot like a timing issue.
I hope you fix it and not damage was done, but we will see
Something making the timing off, it´s making the timing late, burning late in the exhaust making the manifold red hot
Think sequoia's #1 complaint was mpg. Even with just a driver an NO cargo it got poor mpg.
That has to be a timing being off with the manifold glowing. Speaking from experience. My dads jeep was ONE TOOTH off on timing and the CAT was glowing cherry red and the manifold started getting there
I think you still have a timing issue
It really seems like the engine is running rich even though I'm aware there was probably dyno and in car O2 sensors. I know you'll figure it out, but interesting indeed.
When Caleb said he was gonna supercharge the 1uz he didn’t mention which one ;)
Honestly Always Baffles me, What is it with Americas and wanting these massive trucks worried about their towing ability, here in NZ for Rally and Circuit I'm towing up and down some massively mountainous roads with just a 2.0L Turbo Diesel. a normal ford Ranger size truck is fine, hell seen people pitching up at the tracking in Mondeo Station wagons.
Base timing maybe?
cams are swapped or cam gears are swapped/backwards. something like that.
Caleb, I know you put a lot of time and effort into making that exhaust, but seriously just cut that thing up and go with an aftermarket. You don't need the extra heat it produces, especially when there is no real source of outside airflow entering the engine bay.
Was that scratch always in the door?
Just seeing the title before watching the whole video I’d say please let it survive. This poor DSM.
Oh yeah aluminum is not going to cut it as an exhaust manifold heat shield on a 4g. Aluminum's melting temp is just too low for how hot the manifold gets.