As one who trained in bootfitting late 70s in a shop that had a great tech supervisor, I can say that the vast majority of people who put folks in ski boots -- they are boot providers, not boot fitters. They stock the boots, they provide them for you to try on. They may even offer follow up "fitting". But most are not fitters who understand boots, human anatomy, and skiing activity. Consumers likely assume, if the store sells ski boots, the seller knows what's going on. In truth, all it takes to open a ski shop is money, and the ability to get retailer agreements from manufacturer representatives. People try to inform themselves with magazine articles (pre-internet) or internet "research" but they are mostly encountering sales fluff, marketing lingo. As a lifelong skier and someone who taught skiing for 2 yrs, about a decade back -- I would say most people buy boots too stiff for their abilities, and compound the problem by having poor technique where they swing the tails with their arse/hips while telling themselves they're skiing at a high level. If your technique runs contrary to how the ski is designed, you're always off the sweet spot and working against the ski. If your boot is too stiff, you can't find the sweet spot because it's holding you in your inefficient, improper posture relative to the ski's sweet spot. This is why so many end up swinging their skis with their hips/arse and telling themselves they are skiing high level. They're on "black diamond" runs, so they must be experts, eh? How little they realize.
That's because for every 20-30 people out there who call themselves "bootfitters" you will only find one or two actual bootfitters. I won't go into the lengthy qualifiers, but it's a sad fact. There are are great many plastic-slingers out there, and far too few actual experts. "Ol George here is clearly one of the latter. Aside from his obvious technical knowledge, his ability to cut through the BS is something every skier or snowboarder should be looking for in a bootfitter.
Super low volume foot, flexy thin ankle and skinny calves guy here. I ski 98mm Atomic Hawx Ultras since they came out and had to "downgrade" from a 110 to a 100 (with the 120 liners in them) because of how much I have to fasten the upper buckles and the strap to not have my legs move back and forth too much in the upper part of the boot (with pads added to take off some volume).
wait, what has the you went down the stiffness just a little bit and the problem with tightening the shoes went away? that seems odd, you're sure something else hasn't changed? maybe the fit between seasons?
unique info, makes sense! would be fun to know what manufacturers do to stiffen/soften boots within a same line, like plastic composition, design features, etc. hopefully not just changing the color, printing 90 on the side, and cheapening the liner.
Flex is always a result of material thickness and material hardness. When we have two different flexes of the same model, they come out of the same mold, which means the material thickness in the shell is the same. The main remaining option to change is material hardness. Basically the softer flexing boots are injected with softer material. Sometimes when you get into lower flexes the material isn’t just getting softer it’s getting cheaper, this would be evident when going from PU to PP, saves a lot of money to keep margins intact.
Most important is that you got the right volume skiboot for your foot. Second, what type of skier are you? Third, remember a stiffer boot will transfers your movements better to the ski, but will give you more feedback if you doing wrong or from bumps. Softer boots will be more forgiving and will take bumps smoother. It's basically like the suspension of a car on onside you have the stiff ones like a racecar have on the other side you have the soft ones for offroad like in a SUV. And the last point wath Skis are you using and wich terrain you ski. There is no need to use a Race boot on a allmountain ski for example. Your hole Set up should be perfect in line for that you want it to use. That means Boot, Binding and Ski should be set up for your needs.
I’ve only heard from 2 others saying the boot flex “stiffness” is really there to keep you in the proper position / help ‘recover’ per se. This is a GREAT comment and so true.
Not really, go to a ski shop with a good boot fitter, they pull the liners out to fit your foot to a shell, then put you in boots to flex in the shop, you will get the number that is right for you. Don't worry about the flex number, color or brand, just fit.
I agree 100 PERCENT I 'm 66 years old my boots are LV Technica firebird 140 flex .Just by loosening my top buckle the boot becomes softer.I did notice When I was shopping around for boots a couple of years ago the difference between manufactures .Theres definitely no consistency with boot level stiffness at all.
Omg, can we connect ?! I finally found someone with the same boots! I bought the LV Tecnica too, a couple years ago . and I’m a beginner, I bought them bc I liked the look of them & only to realize it may be too stiff for me ? I was told it’s 105 flex… it’s women’s . Are you sure it’s 140??!!! I removed the two bolts in the back and still feeling too stiff , not sure if i should suck up and learn with them or get a lower flex boots … after this video I do want to keep mine tho …
Yes. For most noticeable difference you would be swapping out the cuff softer or stiffer, that is really the only way to make the boot stiffer. The bolt being added in back just makes the boot feel more direct. It doesn’t do all that marketing says.
Well done. You really cleared up questions that we all have about the best boot for our skiing style and performance with comfort in mind. Seems as though the ski industry should standardize the method for measuring boot flex. I am currently in a Rossignol set of boots from 2003 and back then they didn't have flex numbers so I never knew what my number would be. There are some used boots that are exactly the same and one seller said the Power 9.1 equated to a 120 flex. They are stiff and i used to race; they were great for racing. Obviously they need to be replaced so I guess the best thing for me to do now is to spend some time in a recommended ski shop and try on several brands and flex numbers. Thanks!
I think you just helped me out, my skiing has been atrocious and it's making more sense. Do you by any chance have videos of how a boot looks like when you're overflexing them and maybe vice versa (when you're in too stiff of a boot)
You cannot be in too stiff a boot if it is good skiing performance you seek. Everyone should get really stiff boots as they force you to ski correctly since they will punish every tiny mistake. However.... most skiers don't want hard, small, stiff boots as they want comfort and not be punished for mistakes. Well then your skiing will suffer because of it. It's one or the other. I personally get the hardest boot that I can semi-comfortably wear a whole day. I grind the outer shell, and thicken the inner boot where necessary, until it fits properly. All my boots have laced inner boots, and very hard, thin and dense lining.
Then again… a skier must be able to flex and dominate the boot in order to turn correctly. At 5’5” and 130lb I had my Lange RS 100 “softened” to something like 90 and it changed my skiing.
Thank you for the insights. I am hopefully purchasing new ski boots in the new year, and I wrongly thought about purchasing something middle of the road. Though, i'll take advice from the ski boot fitter its good to get the proper details. Thanks!
Great videos thank you! I am having a problem with too much forward lean in my boots, causing major quad fatigue, and heaving a hard time finding a boot fitter who understands and can help with this issue. Any tips??
If the ski boot manufacturers are intentionally deceiving us with respect to boot stiffness, that makes it almost impossible to objectively known the stiffness of a boot. It sounds like the best we can do as consumers is to buy expensive boots that "feel" both stiff and tight, and hope for the best... I just bought new boots and now I have zero confidence that I haven't wasted my money. Super frustrating!
It is not about deception. It is about the lack of a standard way to measure. Listen to blister gear30 podcast deep dive on ski boots - episode about the boot stiffness. Atomic do measure all the competition and tune the stiffness so their 130 flex boot fits in the middle of the range. Yet - as also explained in this video - it is difficult to standardize as same design in different foot volume flexes differently. You should not care about the number - you need to find the flex that matches your weight and fitness/skill - so you can still flex the boot. And naturally the fit. Thats always the same with humans - you can never buy shoes or clothes blindly without trying as some models might fit you, and some might not.
So wait, the size or “width” of the boot makes it so it can flex more or less? Or I guess what do you mean by “low, mid, high volume boot?” Is it that a smaller or skinnier ankle/foot in a wider boot is going to flex more?
People thought and brands marketed that stiff boots gave skiers shin bang, that isn’t true. More park skiers are realizing the benefits of stability and responsiveness.
@@roberthausmann7065 mach1 110 MV is a stiffer 110, but flex doesn’t have to do with ability. It more caps you at that ability if you will, you don’t need to be an expert to buy the 130, you’ll be a more confident skier in the stiffer boot. Confidence is good.
Great video, and very nicely explained! I think the flex numbers can be *sort of* useful. For instance, if you're skiing a Redster TI 130, and want to try one of the Fischer RD boots, you probably want to be in the RD 130 rather than the 110 or the 150. The RD 130 of course isn't going to be an exact match to the TI 130 in stiffness or flex pattern, but it at least tells you they're in the same "family". Also, you warned folks away from race boots. But for recreational skiers who want that extra precision, or who have really narrow feet, I think a softer race-lasted boot, like the Lange ZA+ or ZSoft+, could be a good option. More broadly, the whole topic of boot flex and geometry is super complex and interesting, and no one fully understands it (look at Atomic's struggles a few years ago fixing Shiffrin's boot issues, in spite of having the company's top boot experts working on it). As you know, boots differ in forward lean, foot placement (lateral position relative to the rail, degrees of abduction, abduction axis, etc.), direction of cuff tracking (degrees of lateral or medial tracking), saggital and vertical ankle bolt postions, etc., etc. How do you use that info. to match the skier to the optimum boot during a fitting? Answer: I don't think you can. You can only do the best you can to roughly match the boot geometry to the skier. Ultimately, what's best can only be determined by on-snow testing. [The same holds for dialing in lateral and fore-aft alignment.] And since boots are more important than skis, rather than increasing the size of my ski quiver, this year I'm going to start a boot quiver. My fitter recommended five that she thinks will set up well for me. If I can find two that fit (i.e., be made to fit), I'm going to get set up in both of them, so I can ski both and find which geometry works better for me. It's like demoing skis--you can't tell what really works for you until you get on-snow, take video, and have it reviewed by a coach or instructor. Are any of your clients going to do this? Maybe not. But for those who buy new skis every year or two to see if the new hotness works better for them than the old hotness (and nothing wrong with that!), they might instead be better served by trying an entirely different boot. Because of the fitting and alignment process, it's a lot more work than trying new skis, but the payoff could be significant.
So many people I have seen are in way to stiff of a boot and become back seat because of that they cannot use the dynamics in their legs to ski. So though much of what is said here is true, it is not a universal truth.
1. I said buy the stiffest boot you can properly flex 2. It is more likely that skier is in too upright of a boot, not too stiff of a boot. When skiers are in boots that are too upright they tend to look like a passenger skiing in the backseat vs in a more athletic position. 3. The boots are too big, which causes foot to clench putting more weight on to the heels, putting the skier in the backseat.
Per @stuyboy's question: Within the same line, on the same foot/same volume fit, are there differences in the shell and/or liner (quality or otherwise) between a Technica Mach 1 110/120/130 or a Cochise 110/120/130? I'm not aware of quality differences so look forward to your response. Thanks
Flex is always a result of material thickness and material hardness. When we have two different flexes of the same model, they come out of the same mold, which means the material thickness in the shell is the same. The main remaining option to change is material hardness. Basically the softer flexing boots are injected with softer material. Sometimes when you get into lower flexes the material isn’t just getting softer it’s getting cheaper, this would be evident when going from PU to PP, saves a lot of money to keep margins intact.
Roughly what flex would you recommend a 5.10, 200 pound man, with one ski holiday under his belt, and was who just coming to terms with parallel. There are no ski shops anywhere near where I live, and I,m struggling for answers.
Feet are such dictators! It’s as if we couldn’t ski without them. Sorry. Great video actually. As a person of advanced ability with a large but narrow foot for my medium height, 5’ 8’’ and low weight of 145 lbs I’ve had these questions or doubts about flex for decades of skiing. In my youth I’ve always opted with the stiff race boot even thought I did little race training. My ski terrain was in the steeps and bumps of the normally light powder to hard pack snow in the southern Rockies. Now I live in an area that is hard packed cruising runs and more suited for carving skis so my guess is to still go to a stiff race boot. My friends back home still skiing actually have various types of skis and boots depending upon conditions of the day.
So helpful, I'm buying my first pair and so much different information out there but without good explanation, this was total opposite, made so much more sense, thank you
don't curl your toes to keep your skis pointing down hill push down with your shins. Ski with pressure in your shins to the front of the boot at all times.
Great video. Aggressive expert skier in well-fitted Dalbello Krypton boots. At 220# I'm told I'm a 130 flex all day. They were super responsive, but kicked me around. Guess what: subbed a 120-flex tongue in, added a couple degrees forward lean and BAM! perfect for hammering all over the mountain. Bootfitter advice is just that: advice. Not one-size-fits-all.
If you have longer upper legs / thy bones compared to your lower legs, with squatting this means you'll have to raise your ankles if you don't want to be in a forward leaning position (assuming average ankle mobility). For skiing I would imagine your knees would have to travel further as well, meaning either the boots need to be in a more forward position or you need more forward flex. Do you have any insights into this? I feel like this is never being discussed
spot on: i just demo-ed the mach 1 LV 120 in 26.5 (bootfitter measured average width foot @ 27.3; so super tight fit but doable) oh boy that boot fellt so stiff ..raceboot feeling but too tiring and unforgiving for all day resort skiing and surprisingly it fellt too upright. my current boot is a 130 from Rosignol and def feels softer
I'm about to be shopping for boots at my local ski shop and this is a lot of great information. When I was a beginner with skiing I bought some 90 flex 3 buckle boots and now I'm ready for something stiffer with 4 buckles. Thank you for this video!
How do you know how to find a proper boot fitter? Is there a certification or qualification to ask for at the shop? Is it unreasonable to tell them that you will return a boot if it turns out it was not properly fitted? What is a reasonable expectation for getting the right boot and not being stuck with something once it's paid for? I'm just so tired of painful boots that I settled for a comfy, soft boot, which just does not cut it in many cases.
Finding a good bootfitter is tough because the qualifications or certifications just mean you showed up to a class, there is no test. You pay the fee to go, and you’re a “master bootfitter”. It’s reasonable to ask for that if it’s obviously the wrong boot and you didn’t ask for that boot. Some customers do not want what is recommended and they buy something else, that’s not cool to ask for the shop to take it back. Happy to help you out in Boston, we do have quite a few people fly in for bootfittings.
@@TheSkiMonster Thanks for that. No, wrong coast. Getting my vert at Alyeska, probably the best snow anywhere this season or so I've heard. Just fantastic today, sunny and fast and not yet slushy.
Great video. Just got the Technica Mach1 MV 130's to replace older Technica TNT Icon X's. The only way to fit a boot is to fit the foot with the most flex. Excellent Advice. I'm a fast hard skier on all terrain and conditions. I just updated my equipment with the disintegration of the heal on my Technica TNT Icon X's K2 Icon X skis 107/70/97, 188 with Marker Titanium 1200's. I got the Technica Mach1 MV 130's, K2 Disruptor Skis, 110/71/97, 187 with Marker XComp 16 bindings.
Such an educational video. I went touring once with a pair of salomon boots with an 80 flex and I got huge blisters aftewards exactly at the points you mentioned; now I understood why.
What about Angle? I have 130 boots that are quite upright compared to an old racing boot (130) too, and I find the upright ones much easier on legs and calfs. I believe it's because I need to flex my (old) knees much less to put weight on my skis...
Yes, there could be couple other factors at play too. But in general you are in a more relaxed position being more upright and your skiing will be more relaxed too. More fair to say when you adjust forward lean on a given boot, truly being apples to apples. More forward lean, more direct and more in drivers seat - less like a passenger
What do I have to know about my foot to be able to choose the right boot? That is, I want the Tecnica 130 but LV, MV or HV? My mondopoint is 29. Is that enough or do I need to know more? With ski boots being ridiculously priced I want to buy the boot on line and pay for a boot fitter to fit it but I could still end up getting a boot that doesn't fit right. Also, I am trying to decide between the Tecnica and the Atomic Hawx Ultra, Prime or Magna. Years ago I skied the Tecnica All Race Pro. Custom fitted at a boot store and with cork orthotics. Fantastic boot. But my feet have changed since then so I can only go with the 130 flex. Everything else is a question.
Sidas has a measuring device which measures your feet called sidas-feetbox-3d - not sure if those are available in your area. There are much more factors than just foot length - you have foot width, instep height, but also heel size and angle and calf size. So buying online is not a practical way to find out. I'd suggest you go to the bootfitter first - they should be able to measure your foot and give you basic recomendation which brands should be suitable for your foot. Or you find a Tecnica or Atomic shor nearby and you try multiple boots. Tecnica have a variant of the same boot for various feet volumes (LV/MV/HV), Atomic also have Hawx Ultra/Prime/Magna line (not sure about others). That should give you at least basic info where are your feet on the spectrum. You can always try finding the good online price and talk to a local shop if they can match the price. Other way is also comparing the feel of existing models you already skied and compare those with online reviews. Good reviewers (e.g. blister) always mention which type of foot they have and how they felt in the boot. E.g. Scarba, Dynafit and Scoot used to be boots for people with wider foot and high instep. My narrow low instep fits rather wil into Tecnica Cochise or Atomic Hawx XTD Ultra. Its a difficult journey - but once you find a boot that fits you, its completely different feeling. Bootfiter might do some some adaptation, but proper fit is priceless.
It’s funny you’re mentioning the stiffness index is not standardized in the industry. It’s the same in the cycling/mountain bike world. My current pair of mountain bike shoes has a stiffness index 12 out of 10. Great videos by the way.
I find this video a little bit misleading on the whole. I often ski with people that are always in the backseat because they don't "charge" all day, and most never do! They are often much lighter skiers, & they are often in a boot that they will never be able to flex while skiing. When they try to bend the ankle, they end up bending at the knee instead, putting them in the backseat. Your advise at 8.45 to 9.17 spot on. For the vast majority of skiers looking for advise on ski boots, i would say that would be all the advise they need. (Ok, maybe some the advise on fit as well! :) )
As I mentioned, buy the stiffest boot you can flex properly that fits uniform, consistent while keeping heel secure. Skiers end up skiing in the backseat when they get tired, a softer flexing boot is less effective and is more demanding on the skier to maintain balance. Likelihood of skiing in backseat ends up being higher in a boot with less integrity aka a softer flexing boot. Because the skier gets tired from having to do more work then they would in a stiffer pair of boots.
Not really sure that saying different flexes only exist to sell boots. Go into a surefoot store and they are going to suggest different boot flexes for your weight, skill, and ankle mobility. Still a $1500 boot with a top of the line liner at 130 flex or 100. Even with infinite money Just getting the stiffest boot possible because it’s the most expensive is bad advice.
There are more flexes available than surefoot offers. What I said, buy the stiffest boot you can properly flex that feels uniform with your foot while keeping your heel secure.
I have Salomon S/Pro Alpha 120 ELs and still feel like my heels lift unless I almost cut off circulation with the buckles. Would it be worth exploring a 130?
My boots are the stiffest you can get for the model. I'm an expert skier. I had them "custom" fitted about 3 years ago by a so caller "master boot fitter". I'm tired of the heel lift in them, I think I'm going to become a master boot fitter myself and straiten the boots up a bit. He never mentioned that having a very forward angle would contribute to constant heel lift. All along I though the custom molded injected liner and foot bed that where fitted just for my feet had been compromised from years of skiing. Great video!
Excellent information here. The right boot and flex depends on the type of skiing you prefer. Ive found banging down bumps requires more flex than carving on groomers.
The more uneven and variable terrain you encounter especially at speed, the higher the likelihood of being deflected. Stiffer boots help minimize that and keep you in a ready position
Great video! People focus mostly on skis and forget how important the boot is. Your info is 100% correct, flex is soo inconsistent from brand to brand and model to model. I would even say that we should keep in mind what ski is beneath the boot , the stiffer the ski, the stiffer the boot should be. Also another point is that touring boots gets actually lighter in higher flexes. However I do have a question. Heavier skiers will naturally need stiffer boot as their weight is flexing the boot easier. What about lightweight skiers, like me? Do they benefit from stiff boots or it is overkill? I am often told lightweight skiers cannot flex stiff boots effectively or need much more effort and tend to take the back seat as a result. I have a Tecnica Zero G 130 for touring which is rock hard and an alpine Atomic Hawx 120 that is perfectly fine.
Heavier people put more strain on the shells and stiffer boots can handle those forces more effectively. There are light people that are very strong and can handle/flex a stiff boot properly, it’s not all weight, but weight does help you generate force. The zero G’s feel blockier than the Hawx boots, the zero gs kinda stop and bite the shin making them feel stiffer than they are.
That is very good information. I would add: the flex does not only have to do with the construction of the ski boot, the skier inside becomes part of this overall construction.
100% that is mentioned in video, the flex of the boot is dependent on the foot inside of it. Which is why boots feel softer to people with lower volume feet in a given boot as there is more dead space
Started out liking this presentation but felt you went way off the deep end when you started calling things race boots without defining it and then saying most people don't need race boots. Way wrong.
Race boots are for racing, there are also race inspired boots and then commercial boots. Unless your daily driver is FIS SL/GS ski you don’t need to be or really want to be in a race boot, like I mentioned in video they feel dead when not being pushed, they need to rev high if you will. Not way wrong most people aren’t in FIS level skis therefore don’t need race boots. What boots and skis do you have?
@@louisrosenfeld1203 Raptors WCR 1-6 = race boots Raptor WCR 140-90 = race inspired This applies to all brands I can think of except Atomic which uses flex index for all boots. Basically if the boot uses flex codes it’s Race, if it looks like a race boot and uses flex index it’s race inspired - except for atomic which would say CS after flex index #
@@TheSkiMonster So I'll ask again are 98mm boots like the Head Raptor, Tecnica Mach1 LV, Dalbello Scorpion race boots? The companies all call them race boots.
Many good points made but overall I think it will be easy for people to misinterpret. Stiffer is not better. Modern skis do not require severe forward pressure to initiate. The greater risk is a boot that restricts ankle flex and forces your center of mass backwards every time you flex your knees. The worst possible combination is too stiff with improper (loose) fit. I see this all too often. The best skiers can ski quite well with their boots unbuckled, as a drill only of course. Point is, you don't rely on a boot's stiffness to maintain an athletic position. That's the skiers job and the boot needs to let them do it. Proper fit, proper flex.
If boot wasn’t a tool to help you balance on skis, we’d still ski in leather boots. What you’re witnessing on the hill and blaming on too much stiffness is skiers in boots that are too big and/or too upright. The worst possible combination is actually too big and too soft as there is nothing keeping the skier balanced. It’s not just the forces the skier puts into the boots there is all sort of variables the skier encounters that t try to knock them off balance. As I said buy the stiffest boot you can properly flex that fits uniform while keeping your heel secure.
I mainly do freestyle skiing and so far all the full tilt/fl3x boots are giving me really bad shin pain. Do you have any recommendation for shin pain problem? Shin gel pads doesn't work as well. Was thinking about dalbello 90 gw with new liner model or should I go for 2 piece straight away and if so is it 85-90 flex (soft) or 120 flex (hard)? I do have atomic 120 ultra for carving but don't get any playfullness out of those, so feeling like leg in concrete.
@@TheSkiMonster Shooting pain during evenings and nights. Nothing visible marks on feet or shins. Worst pain and pressure point is where the upper part liner material changes and have seam, near the place where tongue starts. I have tried tongue liner version as well but pressure area just spread out more. At least on full tilts
I have new boots and I feel my knees stay almost at 90°. I have 2 screws on the back, can I just unscrew them to get a lower flex? Rossignol doesn't answer, just sends me to a dealer. If that's how you do it, I won't pay 50€ to unscrew 2 screws. Thank you! Monica
The screws in back doesn’t change the flex of the boot as much as marketing says. You can remove one screw on each boot and it’ll feel a little less direct.
I ski 130 atomics and love them. Got to the mountain today and realized I had forgotten my boots. Used some rentals 80 flex head boots and they were comfy but I had no control off piste and on steeper runs. They were great on the groomer blues though. Super comfortable.
@@crnitzsche whenever the terrain has more features that can knock you off balance, the more noticeable the lack of performance in a softer flex boot is.
Subscribed. Outstanding explanation for someone new like me looking for boots. Went skiing yesterday and I ended up with blisters all across my shins.. not sure what caused this.. do you think investing in a pair rather than renting will prevent this horrible pain? Thanks!
Invest in seeing a boot fitter, if your blistering there’s too much play and maybe too much material in boot, material meaning more than a sock - base layer etc. all that should be in the boot is your sock
I also have sensitive shins - and what solved it for me are the socks with gel pads on the shins I never worry about them anymore. Previous generation of Sidas Protect socks (gel strip glued on the inside) were the best, current generation (gel pad glued on the outside) are terrible - the patch over the gel is much wider, making it very difficult tu put on without ungluing the patch - mine got unstuck after couple of days. There are couple of other brands too (found one in France where the gel insert is removable from the pouch inside the sock).
Pleaseeeee, intermediate - advanced all mountain skiers who are beginning to learn park (small jumps and entry level box and rails, what flex do you use personally?
I went skiing for the first time in 20 years (last March). We rented our equipment from the resort (winter park). I have wide feet so it took a bit for them to find a ski boot that fit. After two days of skiing I ended up with blisters on my shins. Anything I can do to prevent blisters the next time?
Ok. All that should live in the ski boot is your ski sock, no baselayers, pants or skis pants. Also make sure the ski sock is fitted not loose or wrinkled. Make sure the buckles are snug enough on leg (can be difficult to accomplish sometimes in rentals) Rental boots for the most part are very soft and your leg moves more than it should/would in a stiffer boot causing more rubbing. Could be 1 or a combination of those things
Best for me is the sock with gel pad. Never hurting since i got a pair (as i wrote above - unfortunately new Sidas Protect socks are too easy to get unglued). You can also buy gel pads alone (but might be trickier to keep them in place)
This is such a bunch of BS it's astounding. Flex has a very low contributor of foot pain, instead it is dependent on anatomical shape, bio-mechanics, and compression tolerance. World Cup racers DO NOT always ski on super stiff ski boots, they ski on boots that work with their bio-mechanics based on the discipline that they are racing. There are WC racers that have raced on 110 flex boots, because that is what works for them. Most skiers don't even know how to use the flex of their boots because they are leaning back most of the time. Get a boot that fits your volume and size appropriately, then learn how to actually flex that boot while skiing, then and only then will you be able to know if a ski boot is too stiff or too soft for you.
It does have to do with shape, tolerance for compression and for a skier with poor ankle mobility a softer boot can throw off those bio mechanics because they are doing movements they shouldn’t in order to try and get the ski to do something since enough power isn’t being transmitted. Also if you watched, the flex index numbers mean nothing and in the examples I showed the race boot in a 110 was the stiffest of the bunch. And yes many WC skiers have several pairs of boots per discipline depending on temperature and snow hardness.
" a skier with poor ankle mobility a softer boot can throw off those bio mechanics" - from my research of limited ankle flexion, I couldn't agree more. I got 3 days left until I try my 120s. I think one thing that should be emphasized is the the ramp angle should be greater along with the more upright boot for people with limited ankle flex. Delta is an entirely differenent monster.@@TheSkiMonster
100% agree. Some of the hardest charging skiers ski on relatively soft boots. Elise Saugsted for example prefers a 100 flex boot. A 170 flex boot might be amazing for running gates but absolutely a nightmare for all mountain/big mountain skiing involving impacts and variable terrain. The industry does skiers a disservice in my opinion by only offering adjustments and high end features on expensive, stiff boots.
This is very helpful. I have wondered if how much you weigh affects the stiffness of boot that you need. I was wearing boots that were not stiff and was having trouble. When I went to shop for boots, the stiffest ones felt so good. I am 5'6" and a strong 200 pounds.I had the ability to lean into the front of the boot and the resistance back seemed so right. My body was easily in the correct position. Thoughts on that?
A stiffer boot will keep you in ready position more effectively regardless of weight. Heavier people put more strain on the shells and stiffer boots can handle those forces more effectively. There are light people that are very strong and can handle/flex a stiff boot properly, it’s not all weight, but weight does help you generate force.
@@TheSkiMonster - Thank you - that makes sense to me. Great video - confirms what I suspected after trying on about 10 pairs of boots last season. They were all over the place with those stiffness numbers. Ultimately, I went with the boot that felt the most comfortable - and I could flex in the store.
Marketing teams at brands made those associations. It makes the sport seem more accessible price point wise, but it isn’t necessarily the best product for them if they are going to be committed to the sport or want to progress. It’s more appropriate to think of the abilities associated with boots as the cap on ability. If a boots job is to keep you in a ready athletic position; a beginner still needs help with that and a too soft flexing boot isn’t doing them any favors - balancing on skis is hard especially in the beginning. As I mentioned in the video, buy the stiffest boot you can properly flex, that feels uniform around the foot while keeping heel secure.
@@TheSkiMonster Fair enough, but in context, last Saturday I got back home from a week in Les Deux Alpes. Several weeks before I went I went to a boot fitter - Rivington Alpine - to get my own boots. As I have narrow feet even thou I'm more or less a total [mature] beginner he recommended Nordica Doberman GP 110 - flex. The flex I found out on the runs during lessons was way to stiff for me on the slope as I found out at Les Deux Alpes on my second day, as on the shallow blue run 'Diable' I thought I was leaning forward, and the instructor said I was standing up straight, and as a result I fell over a couple of times, with in one fall in the process sort of twisted my left leg, the resulting mild injury in which my left knee swelled up and didn't like weight on it, brought my learn to ski holiday to a dead stop for the rest of the week i.e. remaining 4 days. Now I'm back home and my left leg and knee is well on the mend, I'll be selling those almost brand new Nordica boots on e-bay if I can, otherwise they are going to Ellis Brigham in Chester, as that is a drop off point for boots going for recycling, and at a snow dome near here I'll be taking lessons starting in the spring, and after a few lessons to get used to skis again I will buy a pair of *proper beginner boots* from the Snow + Rock shop attached to the 'Chill Factore' slope depending of course on what they have in stock, maybe say Atomic Hawk Magna 80 or K2 BFC 80 or ..., we will see.
@@Puzzoozoo that’s a race boot, and as I mentioned in the video race boots don’t come alive unless they are being pushed really hard. That Doberman 110 is also stiffer than those Mach 130’s I had shown in video.
@@TheSkiMonster Yeah, I know it was a race boot, the fitter said so because of my small narrow feet those and similar Fisher narrow boots is what he got out for me to try. I had my misgivings about then as soon as I squeezed into them. But as a beginner skier vs a experienced boot fitter what could I say. I certainly will not be going back to him, and at my age I'm after boots that are designed more for comfort then performance. As once I can comfortable ski I'll be restricting my skiing to the mild and gentle runs i.e. green and easy blues before I even think of tackling a red. Peace.
I'm 30+ years on skis, ski zip line in the moguls and offpiste, as well as carving the groomers. I wouldn't touch a stiff boot with a bargepole. This video is ok for intermediates on piste.
Freeride world tour athletes are about as off piste as it gets and ski in race boots if sponsorship allows, they’re preference is to be in boots that stiff because of how much the terrain wants to knock them off balance. Maintaining a ready athletic position is key. Regardless of the type of terrain being skied.
So much good information here. As an experienced skier I have not heard half of this info about boots, not even from boot fitters.
Glad you liked it! Feel free to reach out via live chat, email or phone if you have any other questions. theskimonster.com/
As one who trained in bootfitting late 70s in a shop that had a great tech supervisor, I can say that the vast majority of people who put folks in ski boots -- they are boot providers, not boot fitters. They stock the boots, they provide them for you to try on. They may even offer follow up "fitting". But most are not fitters who understand boots, human anatomy, and skiing activity.
Consumers likely assume, if the store sells ski boots, the seller knows what's going on. In truth, all it takes to open a ski shop is money, and the ability to get retailer agreements from manufacturer representatives.
People try to inform themselves with magazine articles (pre-internet) or internet "research" but they are mostly encountering sales fluff, marketing lingo.
As a lifelong skier and someone who taught skiing for 2 yrs, about a decade back -- I would say most people buy boots too stiff for their abilities, and compound the problem by having poor technique where they swing the tails with their arse/hips while telling themselves they're skiing at a high level.
If your technique runs contrary to how the ski is designed, you're always off the sweet spot and working against the ski. If your boot is too stiff, you can't find the sweet spot because it's holding you in your inefficient, improper posture relative to the ski's sweet spot. This is why so many end up swinging their skis with their hips/arse and telling themselves they are skiing high level. They're on "black diamond" runs, so they must be experts, eh? How little they realize.
That's because for every 20-30 people out there who call themselves "bootfitters" you will only find one or two actual bootfitters. I won't go into the lengthy qualifiers, but it's a sad fact. There are are great many plastic-slingers out there, and far too few actual experts. "Ol George here is clearly one of the latter. Aside from his obvious technical knowledge, his ability to cut through the BS is something every skier or snowboarder should be looking for in a bootfitter.
such a good explanation... so much stuff I wish I'd heard from bootfitters I've visited. thank you.
Super low volume foot, flexy thin ankle and skinny calves guy here. I ski 98mm Atomic Hawx Ultras since they came out and had to "downgrade" from a 110 to a 100 (with the 120 liners in them) because of how much I have to fasten the upper buckles and the strap to not have my legs move back and forth too much in the upper part of the boot (with pads added to take off some volume).
wait, what has the you went down the stiffness just a little bit and the problem with tightening the shoes went away? that seems odd, you're sure something else hasn't changed? maybe the fit between seasons?
unique info, makes sense! would be fun to know what manufacturers do to stiffen/soften boots within a same line, like plastic composition, design features, etc. hopefully not just changing the color, printing 90 on the side, and cheapening the liner.
Flex is always a result of material thickness and material hardness. When we have two different flexes of the same model, they come out of the same mold, which means the material thickness in the shell is the same. The main remaining option to change is material hardness.
Basically the softer flexing boots are injected with softer material.
Sometimes when you get into lower flexes the material isn’t just getting softer it’s getting cheaper, this would be evident when going from PU to PP, saves a lot of money to keep margins intact.
Date your skis; marry your boots.
This was an incredibly helpful video. I'm definitely skiing in too soft of a flex... excited to test out some new ones.
Having seen dozens of videos on the topic, this is definitely the most professional and informative one out there.
Thanks @cluelesssss appreciate you turning in.
Most important is that you got the right volume skiboot for your foot.
Second, what type of skier are you?
Third, remember a stiffer boot will transfers your movements better to the ski, but will give you more feedback if you doing wrong or from bumps. Softer boots will be more forgiving and will take bumps smoother. It's basically like the suspension of a car on onside you have the stiff ones like a racecar have on the other side you have the soft ones for offroad like in a SUV.
And the last point wath Skis are you using and wich terrain you ski. There is no need to use a Race boot on a allmountain ski for example. Your hole Set up should be perfect in line for that you want it to use.
That means Boot, Binding and Ski should be set up for your needs.
I’ve only heard from 2 others saying the boot flex “stiffness” is really there to keep you in the proper position / help ‘recover’ per se. This is a GREAT comment and so true.
Appreciate you following along @TheBeingReal
Buying boots sucks because you can’t get a real feel for them until you’re on the slopes and then if they’re not for you, you’re SOL.
First video I’ve seen to actually explain “flexing a boot” that made sense. Awesome video.
The fact that the ski and snowboard industry has no standardisation makes purchasing a real pain. Thanks for the insight.
Not really, go to a ski shop with a good boot fitter, they pull the liners out to fit your foot to a shell, then put you in boots to flex in the shop, you will get the number that is right for you. Don't worry about the flex number, color or brand, just fit.
took me years and a lot of sore muscles to work out i needed stiffer boots. totally changed my skiing experience and proficiency
I agree 100 PERCENT I 'm 66 years old my boots are LV Technica firebird 140 flex .Just by loosening my top buckle the boot becomes softer.I did notice When I was shopping around for boots a couple of years ago the difference between manufactures .Theres definitely no consistency with boot level stiffness at all.
Omg, can we connect ?! I finally found someone with the same boots! I bought the LV Tecnica too, a couple years ago . and I’m a beginner, I bought them bc I liked the look of them & only to realize it may be too stiff for me ? I was told it’s 105 flex… it’s women’s . Are you sure it’s 140??!!! I removed the two bolts in the back and still feeling too stiff , not sure if i should suck up and learn with them or get a lower flex boots … after this video I do want to keep mine tho …
Such a great video! I'm not sure I've seen a more helpful ski video.... EVER! Thank you
Awesome video George with a straight forward explanation of flex. I had no idea. Thank you
Omg this was the best explanation I’ve ever heard about boots. Thank you so much
Glad it was helped! Let us know if you have any other questions. theskimonster.com/
For what its worth a good bootfiter can make a boot softer wheres its very hard if not impossible to make one stiffer
Yes. For most noticeable difference you would be swapping out the cuff softer or stiffer, that is really the only way to make the boot stiffer. The bolt being added in back just makes the boot feel more direct. It doesn’t do all that marketing says.
Boot fit is so important. You don’t want “dead space” as you put it. Spend a good deal of time trying different makes and models.
Wow. What a great video. Finally someone that’s explained flex well. Thank you.
Glad you liked it and found it helpful. Let us know if you have any other questions. theskimonster.com/
Excellent video. Fully agree. Go for a comfortable but snug fit and then if you have options, go for the stiffest boot with such a fit.
Well done. You really cleared up questions that we all have about the best boot for our skiing style and performance with comfort in mind. Seems as though the ski industry should standardize the method for measuring boot flex. I am currently in a Rossignol set of boots from 2003 and back then they didn't have flex numbers so I never knew what my number would be. There are some used boots that are exactly the same and one seller said the Power 9.1 equated to a 120 flex. They are stiff and i used to race; they were great for racing. Obviously they need to be replaced so I guess the best thing for me to do now is to spend some time in a recommended ski shop and try on several brands and flex numbers. Thanks!
I think you just helped me out, my skiing has been atrocious and it's making more sense. Do you by any chance have videos of how a boot looks like when you're overflexing them and maybe vice versa (when you're in too stiff of a boot)
You cannot be in too stiff a boot if it is good skiing performance you seek. Everyone should get really stiff boots as they force you to ski correctly since they will punish every tiny mistake. However.... most skiers don't want hard, small, stiff boots as they want comfort and not be punished for mistakes. Well then your skiing will suffer because of it. It's one or the other. I personally get the hardest boot that I can semi-comfortably wear a whole day. I grind the outer shell, and thicken the inner boot where necessary, until it fits properly. All my boots have laced inner boots, and very hard, thin and dense lining.
Just started researching boots and this video had some info I hadn’t heard, great video!
Glad it was helpful! Let us know if you have any other questions.
Then again… a skier must be able to flex and dominate the boot in order to turn correctly. At 5’5” and 130lb I had my Lange RS 100 “softened” to something like 90 and it changed my skiing.
Thank you for the informations. Best explanations on this subject.
Thank you for the insights. I am hopefully purchasing new ski boots in the new year, and I wrongly thought about purchasing something middle of the road. Though, i'll take advice from the ski boot fitter its good to get the proper details. Thanks!
Great videos thank you! I am having a problem with too much forward lean in my boots, causing major quad fatigue, and heaving a hard time finding a boot fitter who understands and can help with this issue. Any tips??
What boots do you have currently?
Wish I saw this video 3 weeks ago, might have gone with a stiffer boot, haha. But, I think I’m pretty pleased with what the boot fitter put me in.
If the ski boot manufacturers are intentionally deceiving us with respect to boot stiffness, that makes it almost impossible to objectively known the stiffness of a boot.
It sounds like the best we can do as consumers is to buy expensive boots that "feel" both stiff and tight, and hope for the best...
I just bought new boots and now I have zero confidence that I haven't wasted my money. Super frustrating!
It is not about deception. It is about the lack of a standard way to measure. Listen to blister gear30 podcast deep dive on ski boots - episode about the boot stiffness. Atomic do measure all the competition and tune the stiffness so their 130 flex boot fits in the middle of the range. Yet - as also explained in this video - it is difficult to standardize as same design in different foot volume flexes differently. You should not care about the number - you need to find the flex that matches your weight and fitness/skill - so you can still flex the boot. And naturally the fit. Thats always the same with humans - you can never buy shoes or clothes blindly without trying as some models might fit you, and some might not.
I would argue that a roomier fit gives a perception of "more flex". But I do think this video brings up some good points.
Buckle up your boots tighter and you’ll notice they feel stiffer and vise versa. Less dead space gives feeling of being stiffer.
So wait, the size or “width” of the boot makes it so it can flex more or less? Or I guess what do you mean by “low, mid, high volume boot?” Is it that a smaller or skinnier ankle/foot in a wider boot is going to flex more?
@@jdhartshorn3 correct it will be softer since their is more dead space inside of it in comparison to a foot that fills up more of the boot
Why do many "freestyle" boots tend to be softer flex, despite obviously needing to be "high performance"?
People thought and brands marketed that stiff boots gave skiers shin bang, that isn’t true. More park skiers are realizing the benefits of stability and responsiveness.
Great video totally changed my conception on ski boots
Great to hear!
thanks that was super useful and to the point
Intermediate skier, need ankle support. Mach 1MV 110 ok?
@@roberthausmann7065 mach1 110 MV is a stiffer 110, but flex doesn’t have to do with ability. It more caps you at that ability if you will, you don’t need to be an expert to buy the 130, you’ll be a more confident skier in the stiffer boot. Confidence is good.
@@TheSkiMonster Thanks so much for your helpful advice!
Great video, and very nicely explained! I think the flex numbers can be *sort of* useful. For instance, if you're skiing a Redster TI 130, and want to try one of the Fischer RD boots, you probably want to be in the RD 130 rather than the 110 or the 150. The RD 130 of course isn't going to be an exact match to the TI 130 in stiffness or flex pattern, but it at least tells you they're in the same "family".
Also, you warned folks away from race boots. But for recreational skiers who want that extra precision, or who have really narrow feet, I think a softer race-lasted boot, like the Lange ZA+ or ZSoft+, could be a good option.
More broadly, the whole topic of boot flex and geometry is super complex and interesting, and no one fully understands it (look at Atomic's struggles a few years ago fixing Shiffrin's boot issues, in spite of having the company's top boot experts working on it). As you know, boots differ in forward lean, foot placement (lateral position relative to the rail, degrees of abduction, abduction axis, etc.), direction of cuff tracking (degrees of lateral or medial tracking), saggital and vertical ankle bolt postions, etc., etc. How do you use that info. to match the skier to the optimum boot during a fitting? Answer: I don't think you can. You can only do the best you can to roughly match the boot geometry to the skier. Ultimately, what's best can only be determined by on-snow testing. [The same holds for dialing in lateral and fore-aft alignment.] And since boots are more important than skis, rather than increasing the size of my ski quiver, this year I'm going to start a boot quiver. My fitter recommended five that she thinks will set up well for me. If I can find two that fit (i.e., be made to fit), I'm going to get set up in both of them, so I can ski both and find which geometry works better for me. It's like demoing skis--you can't tell what really works for you until you get on-snow, take video, and have it reviewed by a coach or instructor.
Are any of your clients going to do this? Maybe not. But for those who buy new skis every year or two to see if the new hotness works better for them than the old hotness (and nothing wrong with that!), they might instead be better served by trying an entirely different boot. Because of the fitting and alignment process, it's a lot more work than trying new skis, but the payoff could be significant.
So many people I have seen are in way to stiff of a boot and become back seat because of that they cannot use the dynamics in their legs to ski. So though much of what is said here is true, it is not a universal truth.
1. I said buy the stiffest boot you can properly flex
2. It is more likely that skier is in too upright of a boot, not too stiff of a boot. When skiers are in boots that are too upright they tend to look like a passenger skiing in the backseat vs in a more athletic position.
3. The boots are too big, which causes foot to clench putting more weight on to the heels, putting the skier in the backseat.
I completely disagree with the statement that people should be in stiffer boots.
What do you think the job of a ski boot is? And how would a softer boot help?
Per @stuyboy's question: Within the same line, on the same foot/same volume fit, are there differences in the shell and/or liner (quality or otherwise) between a Technica Mach 1 110/120/130 or a Cochise 110/120/130? I'm not aware of quality differences so look forward to your response. Thanks
Flex is always a result of material thickness and material hardness. When we have two different flexes of the same model, they come out of the same mold, which means the material thickness in the shell is the same. The main remaining option to change is material hardness.
Basically the softer flexing boots are injected with softer material.
Sometimes when you get into lower flexes the material isn’t just getting softer it’s getting cheaper, this would be evident when going from PU to PP, saves a lot of money to keep margins intact.
@@TheSkiMonster Super, thanks. I believe Cochise use PU on the clog and PP on the cuff.
Wow, this was great, lots of information here I did not know. Thanks for the education!
Glad it was helpful!
Roughly what flex would you recommend a 5.10, 200 pound man, with one ski holiday under his belt, and was who just coming to terms with parallel. There are no ski shops anywhere near where I live, and I,m struggling for answers.
@@nre1553again the numbers don’t mean anything, but if I had to put a number to it purchase a 120/130
@@TheSkiMonster thank you
Feet are such dictators! It’s as if we couldn’t ski without them. Sorry. Great video actually. As a person of advanced ability with a large but narrow foot for my medium height, 5’ 8’’ and low weight of 145 lbs I’ve had these questions or doubts about flex for decades of skiing. In my youth I’ve always opted with the stiff race boot even thought I did little race training. My ski terrain was in the steeps and bumps of the normally light powder to hard pack snow in the southern Rockies. Now I live in an area that is hard packed cruising runs and more suited for carving skis so my guess is to still go to a stiff race boot. My friends back home still skiing actually have various types of skis and boots depending upon conditions of the day.
Thank you so much. I ended up buying a pair of ski boots designed for skiing moguls. My skiing transform overnight.
Amazing! Glad you are stoked.
So helpful, I'm buying my first pair and so much different information out there but without good explanation, this was total opposite, made so much more sense, thank you
don't curl your toes to keep your skis pointing down hill push down with your shins. Ski with pressure in your shins to the front of the boot at all times.
Great video. Aggressive expert skier in well-fitted Dalbello Krypton boots. At 220# I'm told I'm a 130 flex all day. They were super responsive, but kicked me around. Guess what: subbed a 120-flex tongue in, added a couple degrees forward lean and BAM! perfect for hammering all over the mountain. Bootfitter advice is just that: advice. Not one-size-fits-all.
If you have longer upper legs / thy bones compared to your lower legs, with squatting this means you'll have to raise your ankles if you don't want to be in a forward leaning position (assuming average ankle mobility). For skiing I would imagine your knees would have to travel further as well, meaning either the boots need to be in a more forward position or you need more forward flex. Do you have any insights into this? I feel like this is never being discussed
spot on: i just demo-ed the mach 1 LV 120 in 26.5 (bootfitter measured average width foot @ 27.3; so super tight fit but doable)
oh boy that boot fellt so stiff ..raceboot feeling but too tiring and unforgiving for all day resort skiing and surprisingly it fellt too upright. my current boot is a 130 from Rosignol and def feels softer
I'm about to be shopping for boots at my local ski shop and this is a lot of great information. When I was a beginner with skiing I bought some 90 flex 3 buckle boots and now I'm ready for something stiffer with 4 buckles. Thank you for this video!
How do you know how to find a proper boot fitter? Is there a certification or qualification to ask for at the shop? Is it unreasonable to tell them that you will return a boot if it turns out it was not properly fitted? What is a reasonable expectation for getting the right boot and not being stuck with something once it's paid for? I'm just so tired of painful boots that I settled for a comfy, soft boot, which just does not cut it in many cases.
Finding a good bootfitter is tough because the qualifications or certifications just mean you showed up to a class, there is no test. You pay the fee to go, and you’re a “master bootfitter”.
It’s reasonable to ask for that if it’s obviously the wrong boot and you didn’t ask for that boot. Some customers do not want what is recommended and they buy something else, that’s not cool to ask for the shop to take it back.
Happy to help you out in Boston, we do have quite a few people fly in for bootfittings.
@@TheSkiMonster Thanks for that. No, wrong coast. Getting my vert at Alyeska, probably the best snow anywhere this season or so I've heard. Just fantastic today, sunny and fast and not yet slushy.
Massive thank you for the work. 😃 Very informative and intuitive!
I own two pairs of boots from the same brand, one pair is 80 and the other 100. It is really difficult to tell the difference.
Dude this is a brilliant explainer video! Learned a lot.
Glad it was helpful!
@@TheSkiMonsterThe presenter’s confidence and tone of voice is really powerful in relaying this information.
Great video. Just got the Technica Mach1 MV 130's to replace older Technica TNT Icon X's.
The only way to fit a boot is to fit the foot with the most flex.
Excellent Advice.
I'm a fast hard skier on all terrain and conditions.
I just updated my equipment with the disintegration of the heal on my Technica TNT Icon X's K2 Icon X skis 107/70/97, 188 with Marker Titanium 1200's.
I got the Technica Mach1 MV 130's, K2 Disruptor Skis, 110/71/97, 187 with Marker XComp 16 bindings.
Such an educational video. I went touring once with a pair of salomon boots with an 80 flex and I got huge blisters aftewards exactly at the points you mentioned; now I understood why.
Excellent tutorial. Marketing messes up a lot of stuff.
Try side by side before you buy!
Perhaps it's time to define foot volume or boot volume and how does one determine the correct volume?
What about Angle? I have 130 boots that are quite upright compared to an old racing boot (130) too, and I find the upright ones much easier on legs and calfs. I believe it's because I need to flex my (old) knees much less to put weight on my skis...
Yes, there could be couple other factors at play too. But in general you are in a more relaxed position being more upright and your skiing will be more relaxed too. More fair to say when you adjust forward lean on a given boot, truly being apples to apples. More forward lean, more direct and more in drivers seat - less like a passenger
LOVE this information on ski boot flex!!!
Dead space? What is that? Is live space more desirable?
You nailed it.
Thanks! 🤙🏼
Question: You mention the boot will feel stiffer IF your foot fills up the foot bed. But SHOULD the foot fill up the foot bed? I assume yes.
If your foot fills up the shell, it is possible for your foot to fill up the footbed and not the shell. You really want both for a proper fit.
What do I have to know about my foot to be able to choose the right boot? That is, I want the Tecnica 130 but LV, MV or HV? My mondopoint is 29. Is that enough or do I need to know more? With ski boots being ridiculously priced I want to buy the boot on line and pay for a boot fitter to fit it but I could still end up getting a boot that doesn't fit right. Also, I am trying to decide between the Tecnica and the Atomic Hawx Ultra, Prime or Magna. Years ago I skied the Tecnica All Race Pro. Custom fitted at a boot store and with cork orthotics. Fantastic boot. But my feet have changed since then so I can only go with the 130 flex. Everything else is a question.
Sidas has a measuring device which measures your feet called sidas-feetbox-3d - not sure if those are available in your area. There are much more factors than just foot length - you have foot width, instep height, but also heel size and angle and calf size. So buying online is not a practical way to find out. I'd suggest you go to the bootfitter first - they should be able to measure your foot and give you basic recomendation which brands should be suitable for your foot. Or you find a Tecnica or Atomic shor nearby and you try multiple boots. Tecnica have a variant of the same boot for various feet volumes (LV/MV/HV), Atomic also have Hawx Ultra/Prime/Magna line (not sure about others).
That should give you at least basic info where are your feet on the spectrum. You can always try finding the good online price and talk to a local shop if they can match the price.
Other way is also comparing the feel of existing models you already skied and compare those with online reviews. Good reviewers (e.g. blister) always mention which type of foot they have and how they felt in the boot. E.g. Scarba, Dynafit and Scoot used to be boots for people with wider foot and high instep. My narrow low instep fits rather wil into Tecnica Cochise or Atomic Hawx XTD Ultra. Its a difficult journey - but once you find a boot that fits you, its completely different feeling. Bootfiter might do some some adaptation, but proper fit is priceless.
It’s funny you’re mentioning the stiffness index is not standardized in the industry. It’s the same in the cycling/mountain bike world. My current pair of mountain bike shoes has a stiffness index 12 out of 10.
Great videos by the way.
Thank you
Great presenter! Speaks confidently!
I find this video a little bit misleading on the whole. I often ski with people that are always in the backseat because they don't "charge" all day, and most never do! They are often much lighter skiers, & they are often in a boot that they will never be able to flex while skiing. When they try to bend the ankle, they end up bending at the knee instead, putting them in the backseat. Your advise at 8.45 to 9.17 spot on. For the vast majority of skiers looking for advise on ski boots, i would say that would be all the advise they need. (Ok, maybe some the advise on fit as well! :) )
As I mentioned, buy the stiffest boot you can flex properly that fits uniform, consistent while keeping heel secure.
Skiers end up skiing in the backseat when they get tired, a softer flexing boot is less effective and is more demanding on the skier to maintain balance. Likelihood of skiing in backseat ends up being higher in a boot with less integrity aka a softer flexing boot. Because the skier gets tired from having to do more work then they would in a stiffer pair of boots.
Not really sure that saying different flexes only exist to sell boots. Go into a surefoot store and they are going to suggest different boot flexes for your weight, skill, and ankle mobility. Still a $1500 boot with a top of the line liner at 130 flex or 100. Even with infinite money Just getting the stiffest boot possible because it’s the most expensive is bad advice.
There are more flexes available than surefoot offers.
What I said, buy the stiffest boot you can properly flex that feels uniform with your foot while keeping your heel secure.
I have Salomon S/Pro Alpha 120 ELs and still feel like my heels lift unless I almost cut off circulation with the buckles. Would it be worth exploring a 130?
Assuming you are in the correct size, You may just need a little volume soaked up. See you’re favorite bootfitter to further assess
My boots are the stiffest you can get for the model. I'm an expert skier. I had them "custom" fitted about 3 years ago by a so caller "master boot fitter". I'm tired of the heel lift in them, I think I'm going to become a master boot fitter myself and straiten the boots up a bit. He never mentioned that having a very forward angle would contribute to constant heel lift. All along I though the custom molded injected liner and foot bed that where fitted just for my feet had been compromised from years of skiing. Great video!
Heels lifting remedies are widely misunderstood, glad we could help
Excellent information here. The right boot and flex depends on the type of skiing you prefer. Ive found banging down bumps requires more flex than carving on groomers.
The more uneven and variable terrain you encounter especially at speed, the higher the likelihood of being deflected. Stiffer boots help minimize that and keep you in a ready position
just like the bedroom, the stiffy is the best
Great video! People focus mostly on skis and forget how important the boot is. Your info is 100% correct, flex is soo inconsistent from brand to brand and model to model. I would even say that we should keep in mind what ski is beneath the boot , the stiffer the ski, the stiffer the boot should be. Also another point is that touring boots gets actually lighter in higher flexes.
However I do have a question. Heavier skiers will naturally need stiffer boot as their weight is flexing the boot easier. What about lightweight skiers, like me? Do they benefit from stiff boots or it is overkill? I am often told lightweight skiers cannot flex stiff boots effectively or need much more effort and tend to take the back seat as a result. I have a Tecnica Zero G 130 for touring which is rock hard and an alpine Atomic Hawx 120 that is perfectly fine.
Heavier people put more strain on the shells and stiffer boots can handle those forces more effectively. There are light people that are very strong and can handle/flex a stiff boot properly, it’s not all weight, but weight does help you generate force.
The zero G’s feel blockier than the Hawx boots, the zero gs kinda stop and bite the shin making them feel stiffer than they are.
toe bangs/shin bangs, do you know why they happen? Not riding hard on shins for toe bangs? and riding too hard for shin bangs? @the ski monster
You might like this blog - theskimonster.com/blog/posts/shin-bang-explained/
That is very good information. I would add: the flex does not only have to do with the construction of the ski boot, the skier inside becomes part of this overall construction.
100% that is mentioned in video, the flex of the boot is dependent on the foot inside of it. Which is why boots feel softer to people with lower volume feet in a given boot as there is more dead space
George, thank you for you and Germ spreading the truth and pushing proper product fit!
Chris what’s up man!? It’s been a while, hope you’re well
Started out liking this presentation but felt you went way off the deep end when you started calling things race boots without defining it and then saying most people don't need race boots. Way wrong.
Race boots are for racing, there are also race inspired boots and then commercial boots. Unless your daily driver is FIS SL/GS ski you don’t need to be or really want to be in a race boot, like I mentioned in video they feel dead when not being pushed, they need to rev high if you will.
Not way wrong most people aren’t in FIS level skis therefore don’t need race boots.
What boots and skis do you have?
@@TheSkiMonster So define a race boot. Head calls the Raptor 98mm boot a race boot. Is it?
@@louisrosenfeld1203 Raptors WCR 1-6 = race boots
Raptor WCR 140-90 = race inspired
This applies to all brands I can think of except Atomic which uses flex index for all boots. Basically if the boot uses flex codes it’s Race, if it looks like a race boot and uses flex index it’s race inspired - except for atomic which would say CS after flex index #
@@TheSkiMonster So I'll ask again are 98mm boots like the Head Raptor, Tecnica Mach1 LV, Dalbello Scorpion race boots? The companies all call them race boots.
@@TheSkiMonster WCRs are not 98mm boots.
Many good points made but overall I think it will be easy for people to misinterpret. Stiffer is not better. Modern skis do not require severe forward pressure to initiate. The greater risk is a boot that restricts ankle flex and forces your center of mass backwards every time you flex your knees. The worst possible combination is too stiff with improper (loose) fit. I see this all too often. The best skiers can ski quite well with their boots unbuckled, as a drill only of course. Point is, you don't rely on a boot's stiffness to maintain an athletic position. That's the skiers job and the boot needs to let them do it. Proper fit, proper flex.
If boot wasn’t a tool to help you balance on skis, we’d still ski in leather boots. What you’re witnessing on the hill and blaming on too much
stiffness is skiers in boots that are too big and/or too upright.
The worst possible combination is actually too big and too soft as there is nothing keeping the skier balanced.
It’s not just the forces the skier puts into the boots there is all sort of variables the skier encounters that t try to knock them off balance.
As I said buy the stiffest boot you can properly flex that fits uniform while keeping your heel secure.
@@TheSkiMonsterWe'll just have to agree to disagree.
I wish I had known this soonee
I mainly do freestyle skiing and so far all the full tilt/fl3x boots are giving me really bad shin pain. Do you have any recommendation for shin pain problem? Shin gel pads doesn't work as well.
Was thinking about dalbello 90 gw with new liner model or should I go for 2 piece straight away and if so is it 85-90 flex (soft) or 120 flex (hard)? I do have atomic 120 ultra for carving but don't get any playfullness out of those, so feeling like leg in concrete.
In your fl3x boots does it feel like pressure , shin splints or a little bit of both?
@@TheSkiMonster Shooting pain during evenings and nights. Nothing visible marks on feet or shins. Worst pain and pressure point is where the upper part liner material changes and have seam, near the place where tongue starts. I have tried tongue liner version as well but pressure area just spread out more. At least on full tilts
@@EthanPulkkinen hurt to walk and basically raise your toes off the ground?
@@TheSkiMonster Doesn't hurt as long as nothing is touching shins
@@EthanPulkkinen sorry for all these questions but this how a boot fit would go.
Is the boot loose around your leg and calf?
I have new boots and I feel my knees stay almost at 90°. I have 2 screws on the back, can I just unscrew them to get a lower flex? Rossignol doesn't answer, just sends me to a dealer. If that's how you do it, I won't pay 50€ to unscrew 2 screws. Thank you! Monica
The screws in back doesn’t change the flex of the boot as much as marketing says. You can remove one screw on each boot and it’ll feel a little less direct.
@@TheSkiMonster Thank you for your quick answer! I'll try it for the next ski day 🙂
Some solid info here.
I ski 130 atomics and love them. Got to the mountain today and realized I had forgotten my boots. Used some rentals 80 flex head boots and they were comfy but I had no control off piste and on steeper runs. They were great on the groomer blues though. Super comfortable.
To be fair though, the boot was too big around my heel and ankle so there was that factor as well. Tks for the video. Good stuff.
@@crnitzsche whenever the terrain has more features that can knock you off balance, the more noticeable the lack of performance in a softer flex boot is.
Subscribed. Outstanding explanation for someone new like me looking for boots. Went skiing yesterday and I ended up with blisters all across my shins.. not sure what caused this.. do you think investing in a pair rather than renting will prevent this horrible pain? Thanks!
Invest in seeing a boot fitter, if your blistering there’s too much play and maybe too much material in boot, material meaning more than a sock - base layer etc. all that should be in the boot is your sock
I also have sensitive shins - and what solved it for me are the socks with gel pads on the shins I never worry about them anymore. Previous generation of Sidas Protect socks (gel strip glued on the inside) were the best, current generation (gel pad glued on the outside) are terrible - the patch over the gel is much wider, making it very difficult tu put on without ungluing the patch - mine got unstuck after couple of days. There are couple of other brands too (found one in France where the gel insert is removable from the pouch inside the sock).
Great video! Probably on of the best explained out there! Great job!
Thank you!
Great Info!
Thank you for the information. Well presented!
Thanks for watching
Pleaseeeee, intermediate - advanced all mountain skiers who are beginning to learn park (small jumps and entry level box and rails, what flex do you use personally?
As I mentioned in the video, the problem with asking what flex is best is the numbers don’t really mean anything, and they are NOT standardized
Excellent info. As a beginner would a Dalbello DRS 130 AB be too stiff?
Race boots wouldn't be ideal as they feel dead at lower speeds. They need some real mph to come alive, harder for even some advanced skiers.
@@TheSkiMonster Good to know, thanks for the reply!
hahahaha, ok
Thank you
I went skiing for the first time in 20 years (last March). We rented our equipment from the resort (winter park). I have wide feet so it took a bit for them to find a ski boot that fit. After two days of skiing I ended up with blisters on my shins. Anything I can do to prevent blisters the next time?
Ok.
All that should live in the ski boot is your ski sock, no baselayers, pants or skis pants. Also make sure the ski sock is fitted not loose or wrinkled.
Make sure the buckles are snug enough on leg (can be difficult to accomplish sometimes in rentals)
Rental boots for the most part are very soft and your leg moves more than it should/would in a stiffer boot causing more rubbing.
Could be 1 or a combination of those things
I wonder if putting Vaseline on my shin before putting ski socks on might help.
Best for me is the sock with gel pad. Never hurting since i got a pair (as i wrote above - unfortunately new Sidas Protect socks are too easy to get unglued). You can also buy gel pads alone (but might be trickier to keep them in place)
Very good information ! Thank you !
Glad it was helpful!
Begs the question of why soft boots exist
I mention this in video, but it's too hit an array of price points.
This is such a bunch of BS it's astounding. Flex has a very low contributor of foot pain, instead it is dependent on anatomical shape, bio-mechanics, and compression tolerance. World Cup racers DO NOT always ski on super stiff ski boots, they ski on boots that work with their bio-mechanics based on the discipline that they are racing. There are WC racers that have raced on 110 flex boots, because that is what works for them. Most skiers don't even know how to use the flex of their boots because they are leaning back most of the time. Get a boot that fits your volume and size appropriately, then learn how to actually flex that boot while skiing, then and only then will you be able to know if a ski boot is too stiff or too soft for you.
It does have to do with shape, tolerance for compression and for a skier with poor ankle mobility a softer boot can throw off those bio mechanics because they are doing movements they shouldn’t in order to try and get the ski to do something since enough power isn’t being transmitted.
Also if you watched, the flex index numbers mean nothing and in the examples I showed the race boot in a 110 was the stiffest of the bunch.
And yes many WC skiers have several pairs of boots per discipline depending on temperature and snow hardness.
" a skier with poor ankle mobility a softer boot can throw off those bio mechanics" - from my research of limited ankle flexion, I couldn't agree more. I got 3 days left until I try my 120s. I think one thing that should be emphasized is the the ramp angle should be greater along with the more upright boot for people with limited ankle flex. Delta is an entirely differenent monster.@@TheSkiMonster
100% agree. Some of the hardest charging skiers ski on relatively soft boots. Elise Saugsted for example prefers a 100 flex boot. A 170 flex boot might be amazing for running gates but absolutely a nightmare for all mountain/big mountain skiing involving impacts and variable terrain. The industry does skiers a disservice in my opinion by only offering adjustments and high end features on expensive, stiff boots.
This is very helpful. I have wondered if how much you weigh affects the stiffness of boot that you need. I was wearing boots that were not stiff and was having trouble. When I went to shop for boots, the stiffest ones felt so good. I am 5'6" and a strong 200 pounds.I had the ability to lean into the front of the boot and the resistance back seemed so right. My body was easily in the correct position. Thoughts on that?
A stiffer boot will keep you in ready position more effectively regardless of weight. Heavier people put more strain on the shells and stiffer boots can handle those forces more effectively. There are light people that are very strong and can handle/flex a stiff boot properly, it’s not all weight, but weight does help you generate force.
@@TheSkiMonster - Thank you - that makes sense to me. Great video - confirms what I suspected after trying on about 10 pairs of boots last season. They were all over the place with those stiffness numbers. Ultimately, I went with the boot that felt the most comfortable - and I could flex in the store.
Alright then, explain why beginner ski boots for people new to skiing, and learning how to ski have a soft flex.
Marketing teams at brands made those associations. It makes the sport seem more accessible price point wise, but it isn’t necessarily the best product for them if they are going to be committed to the sport or want to progress. It’s more appropriate to think of the abilities associated with boots as the cap on ability.
If a boots job is to keep you in a ready athletic position; a beginner still needs help with that and a too soft flexing boot isn’t doing them any favors - balancing on skis is hard especially in the beginning.
As I mentioned in the video, buy the stiffest boot you can properly flex, that feels uniform around the foot while keeping heel secure.
@@TheSkiMonster Fair enough, but in context, last Saturday I got back home from a week in Les Deux Alpes. Several weeks before I went I went to a boot fitter - Rivington Alpine - to get my own boots. As I have narrow feet even thou I'm more or less a total [mature] beginner he recommended Nordica Doberman GP 110 - flex.
The flex I found out on the runs during lessons was way to stiff for me on the slope as I found out at Les Deux Alpes on my second day, as on the shallow blue run 'Diable' I thought I was leaning forward, and the instructor said I was standing up straight, and as a result I fell over a couple of times, with in one fall in the process sort of twisted my left leg, the resulting mild injury in which my left knee swelled up and didn't like weight on it, brought my learn to ski holiday to a dead stop for the rest of the week i.e. remaining 4 days.
Now I'm back home and my left leg and knee is well on the mend, I'll be selling those almost brand new Nordica boots on e-bay if I can, otherwise they are going to Ellis Brigham in Chester, as that is a drop off point for boots going for recycling, and at a snow dome near here I'll be taking lessons starting in the spring, and after a few lessons to get used to skis again I will buy a pair of *proper beginner boots* from the Snow + Rock shop attached to the 'Chill Factore' slope depending of course on what they have in stock, maybe say Atomic Hawk Magna 80 or K2 BFC 80 or ..., we will see.
@@Puzzoozoo that’s a race boot, and as I mentioned in the video race boots don’t come alive unless they are being pushed really hard. That Doberman 110 is also stiffer than those Mach 130’s I had shown in video.
@@TheSkiMonster Yeah, I know it was a race boot, the fitter said so because of my small narrow feet those and similar Fisher narrow boots is what he got out for me to try. I had my misgivings about then as soon as I squeezed into them. But as a beginner skier vs a experienced boot fitter what could I say. I certainly will not be going back to him, and at my age I'm after boots that are designed more for comfort then performance. As once I can comfortable ski I'll be restricting my skiing to the mild and gentle runs i.e. green and easy blues before I even think of tackling a red. Peace.
I'm 30+ years on skis, ski zip line in the moguls and offpiste, as well as carving the groomers. I wouldn't touch a stiff boot with a bargepole.
This video is ok for intermediates on piste.
Freeride world tour athletes are about as off piste as it gets and ski in race boots if sponsorship allows, they’re preference is to be in boots that stiff because of how much the terrain wants to knock them off balance.
Maintaining a ready athletic position is key. Regardless of the type of terrain being skied.
Excellent information
Thanks!
The best video about ski boots I've seen to date. Well done!!