As one who trained in bootfitting late 70s in a shop that had a great tech supervisor, I can say that the vast majority of people who put folks in ski boots -- they are boot providers, not boot fitters. They stock the boots, they provide them for you to try on. They may even offer follow up "fitting". But most are not fitters who understand boots, human anatomy, and skiing activity. Consumers likely assume, if the store sells ski boots, the seller knows what's going on. In truth, all it takes to open a ski shop is money, and the ability to get retailer agreements from manufacturer representatives. People try to inform themselves with magazine articles (pre-internet) or internet "research" but they are mostly encountering sales fluff, marketing lingo. As a lifelong skier and someone who taught skiing for 2 yrs, about a decade back -- I would say most people buy boots too stiff for their abilities, and compound the problem by having poor technique where they swing the tails with their arse/hips while telling themselves they're skiing at a high level. If your technique runs contrary to how the ski is designed, you're always off the sweet spot and working against the ski. If your boot is too stiff, you can't find the sweet spot because it's holding you in your inefficient, improper posture relative to the ski's sweet spot. This is why so many end up swinging their skis with their hips/arse and telling themselves they are skiing high level. They're on "black diamond" runs, so they must be experts, eh? How little they realize.
That's because for every 20-30 people out there who call themselves "bootfitters" you will only find one or two actual bootfitters. I won't go into the lengthy qualifiers, but it's a sad fact. There are are great many plastic-slingers out there, and far too few actual experts. "Ol George here is clearly one of the latter. Aside from his obvious technical knowledge, his ability to cut through the BS is something every skier or snowboarder should be looking for in a bootfitter.
This is THE best no nonsense, easy to understand advice on ski boot flex I have ever read. I've been skiing for over 35 years and have gone through the various, sometimes painful and at other times puzzling, stages of "finding the right boot". All of what George says makes total sense to me now - if only I'd known this 35 years ago 🙂 Fantastic video ** * * *
I’ve only heard from 2 others saying the boot flex “stiffness” is really there to keep you in the proper position / help ‘recover’ per se. This is a GREAT comment and so true.
Used to ski and race with rossi equpe... 150 wasn't stiff enough as is. Yes, I riveted them plus a wider power strap( I weight 140 and six tall. and ski with my skeleton and powerful with my din set at 14 for race, 11 for all mountain.. Moved on to the redster and they did it! I'm old now and yet still love the redster and the yellow rossi's,. my go to boot also Atomic is the Hawx ultra white 130. I can make them not move on boilerplate and get a little forgiveness in the bumps and steeps. Really loved foot space thought as I've always had zipfits and unbuckle as soon as I could. Get off lift and I'm cranking down cuz I do not want movement in the boot. My style of skiing wants to feel everything the ski is touching. Thanks!
I agree 100 PERCENT I 'm 66 years old my boots are LV Technica firebird 140 flex .Just by loosening my top buckle the boot becomes softer.I did notice When I was shopping around for boots a couple of years ago the difference between manufactures .Theres definitely no consistency with boot level stiffness at all.
Omg, can we connect ?! I finally found someone with the same boots! I bought the LV Tecnica too, a couple years ago . and I’m a beginner, I bought them bc I liked the look of them & only to realize it may be too stiff for me ? I was told it’s 105 flex… it’s women’s . Are you sure it’s 140??!!! I removed the two bolts in the back and still feeling too stiff , not sure if i should suck up and learn with them or get a lower flex boots … after this video I do want to keep mine tho …
So helpful, I'm buying my first pair and so much different information out there but without good explanation, this was total opposite, made so much more sense, thank you
Well done. You really cleared up questions that we all have about the best boot for our skiing style and performance with comfort in mind. Seems as though the ski industry should standardize the method for measuring boot flex. I am currently in a Rossignol set of boots from 2003 and back then they didn't have flex numbers so I never knew what my number would be. There are some used boots that are exactly the same and one seller said the Power 9.1 equated to a 120 flex. They are stiff and i used to race; they were great for racing. Obviously they need to be replaced so I guess the best thing for me to do now is to spend some time in a recommended ski shop and try on several brands and flex numbers. Thanks!
Such an educational video. I went touring once with a pair of salomon boots with an 80 flex and I got huge blisters aftewards exactly at the points you mentioned; now I understood why.
Not really, go to a ski shop with a good boot fitter, they pull the liners out to fit your foot to a shell, then put you in boots to flex in the shop, you will get the number that is right for you. Don't worry about the flex number, color or brand, just fit.
That is very good information. I would add: the flex does not only have to do with the construction of the ski boot, the skier inside becomes part of this overall construction.
100% that is mentioned in video, the flex of the boot is dependent on the foot inside of it. Which is why boots feel softer to people with lower volume feet in a given boot as there is more dead space
@@TheSkiMonsterI would think that if there's dead space, there will be certain components of the boot that will not be in tension, and therefore not contributing to stiffening the flex as designed. Great video!
I ski 130 atomics and love them. Got to the mountain today and realized I had forgotten my boots. Used some rentals 80 flex head boots and they were comfy but I had no control off piste and on steeper runs. They were great on the groomer blues though. Super comfortable.
@@crnitzsche whenever the terrain has more features that can knock you off balance, the more noticeable the lack of performance in a softer flex boot is.
Excellent information here. The right boot and flex depends on the type of skiing you prefer. Ive found banging down bumps requires more flex than carving on groomers.
The more uneven and variable terrain you encounter especially at speed, the higher the likelihood of being deflected. Stiffer boots help minimize that and keep you in a ready position
Great video. Just got the Technica Mach1 MV 130's to replace older Technica TNT Icon X's. The only way to fit a boot is to fit the foot with the most flex. Excellent Advice. I'm a fast hard skier on all terrain and conditions. I just updated my equipment with the disintegration of the heal on my Technica TNT Icon X's K2 Icon X skis 107/70/97, 188 with Marker Titanium 1200's. I got the Technica Mach1 MV 130's, K2 Disruptor Skis, 110/71/97, 187 with Marker XComp 16 bindings.
Thank you for the insights. I am hopefully purchasing new ski boots in the new year, and I wrongly thought about purchasing something middle of the road. Though, i'll take advice from the ski boot fitter its good to get the proper details. Thanks!
Good video. Just a few points: (1) I would think a boot would be stiffer for a lower-volume foot, because with an LV foot the skier needs to crank the buckles a lot tigher to get a good wrap, which increases the stiffness. (2) You said WC DH racers don't shy away from stiff boots in spite of the terrain vibrations they get. While WC DH racers are skiing 150+ flex boots, they are still skiing softer boots than are used in WC SL. I think that's because they don't want every bit of terrain vibration transferred to their feet, and because they don't want the boots to be as reactive. (3) As a 145 lb recreational skier looking for high performance, I ski both a Lange ZB and an Atomic Redster TI 130. I know it's not commercially viable for most stores to carry those, which is unfortunate, since it makes it harder for those of us looking for high performance boots. I actually had to mail-order them, try them on at home, and then bring them to my local fitter.
@@chemystify 1. Anytime you buckle tighter you’re decreasing dead space that’s why it’s getting stiffer, but an LV foot in an MV boot is going to have more dead space than an MV an in MV making it softer for the LV foot.
spot on: i just demo-ed the mach 1 LV 120 in 26.5 (bootfitter measured average width foot @ 27.3; so super tight fit but doable) oh boy that boot fellt so stiff ..raceboot feeling but too tiring and unforgiving for all day resort skiing and surprisingly it fellt too upright. my current boot is a 130 from Rosignol and def feels softer
I think you just helped me out, my skiing has been atrocious and it's making more sense. Do you by any chance have videos of how a boot looks like when you're overflexing them and maybe vice versa (when you're in too stiff of a boot)
You cannot be in too stiff a boot if it is good skiing performance you seek. Everyone should get really stiff boots as they force you to ski correctly since they will punish every tiny mistake. However.... most skiers don't want hard, small, stiff boots as they want comfort and not be punished for mistakes. Well then your skiing will suffer because of it. It's one or the other. I personally get the hardest boot that I can semi-comfortably wear a whole day. I grind the outer shell, and thicken the inner boot where necessary, until it fits properly. All my boots have laced inner boots, and very hard, thin and dense lining.
Most important is that you got the right volume skiboot for your foot. Second, what type of skier are you? Third, remember a stiffer boot will transfers your movements better to the ski, but will give you more feedback if you doing wrong or from bumps. Softer boots will be more forgiving and will take bumps smoother. It's basically like the suspension of a car on onside you have the stiff ones like a racecar have on the other side you have the soft ones for offroad like in a SUV. And the last point wath Skis are you using and wich terrain you ski. There is no need to use a Race boot on a allmountain ski for example. Your hole Set up should be perfect in line for that you want it to use. That means Boot, Binding and Ski should be set up for your needs.
unique info, makes sense! would be fun to know what manufacturers do to stiffen/soften boots within a same line, like plastic composition, design features, etc. hopefully not just changing the color, printing 90 on the side, and cheapening the liner.
Flex is always a result of material thickness and material hardness. When we have two different flexes of the same model, they come out of the same mold, which means the material thickness in the shell is the same. The main remaining option to change is material hardness. Basically the softer flexing boots are injected with softer material. Sometimes when you get into lower flexes the material isn’t just getting softer it’s getting cheaper, this would be evident when going from PU to PP, saves a lot of money to keep margins intact.
Super low volume foot, flexy thin ankle and skinny calves guy here. I ski 98mm Atomic Hawx Ultras since they came out and had to "downgrade" from a 110 to a 100 (with the 120 liners in them) because of how much I have to fasten the upper buckles and the strap to not have my legs move back and forth too much in the upper part of the boot (with pads added to take off some volume).
wait, what has the you went down the stiffness just a little bit and the problem with tightening the shoes went away? that seems odd, you're sure something else hasn't changed? maybe the fit between seasons?
Great video. Aggressive expert skier in well-fitted Dalbello Krypton boots. At 220# I'm told I'm a 130 flex all day. They were super responsive, but kicked me around. Guess what: subbed a 120-flex tongue in, added a couple degrees forward lean and BAM! perfect for hammering all over the mountain. Bootfitter advice is just that: advice. Not one-size-fits-all.
Great information. I recently went from a pair of head vector, which had a 100 stiffness rating, to a pair of tecnica sport HV which also have a 100 stiffness. The head boots were my first boots and bought them online, which was a mistake. The tecnica boots I bought at a ski shop and got properly fitted. I found out that the head boots were oversized and had caused tons of foot pain over the years. Skiied on the tecnica boots this past weekend and they were fantastic. Having boots that fit properly was huge and had zero foot pain and skiied far better.
Great info here! I have a high instep (10.5") but the length of my feet are 9.25" & 9.5". I have raced in 96mm last that seemed to crush my foot. I moved to a 27.5 mondo with a 100mm width Atomic and while it may not be the best, it seems to have worked as I had a few platinum runs but am still mostly just a Gold slalom racer with a 20-ish handicap. My GS is crap until the runs are longer and more spread out (like a Super G) and then I become a Platinum racer again. Really weird & am hoping that the right sized ski boot might help.
True, flex numbers aren't standardized. But to conclude that they therefore tell you *nothing* (other than price point) is an overstatement. First if all, as you guys say or presuppose in this and many other videos, the numbers do tell you something about the stiffness of the boot relative to other boots in the same model line. Second, manufacturers do try to align their numbers with those of their competitors. When brand A comes out with a new 130, they design it to give a user experience comparable with existing 130s. What you do usefully point out is that the numbers also correlate with price. As you move to higher flex index within a model line the boot gets not only stiffer but also more expensive. And this means not only more profitable for the manufacturer but also higher in value: it gets stronger plastic; parts are bolted on rather than riveted; it gets more adjustment features and a better strap; the liner is made from more expensive materials, etc. The advice to buy the highest flex index you can afford, provided you can flex the boot appropriately, is good because it is the advice to buy the highest quality boot you can both flex and afford. And this is indeed the best way to spend your money on improving your skiing experience. What sucks about all this is that skiers who need a less stiff boot usually get stuck with a lower quality boot. The point made in the video about actual stiffness being dependent on the foot is true but you can't conclude from it that the numbers are meaningless. Cars receive crash test ratings. The severity of an actual crash depends on many things other than the car, but that does render the ratings meaningless or useless.
Great video, and very nicely explained! I think the flex numbers can be *sort of* useful. For instance, if you're skiing a Redster TI 130, and want to try one of the Fischer RD boots, you probably want to be in the RD 130 rather than the 110 or the 150. The RD 130 of course isn't going to be an exact match to the TI 130 in stiffness or flex pattern, but it at least tells you they're in the same "family". Also, you warned folks away from race boots. But for recreational skiers who want that extra precision, or who have really narrow feet, I think a softer race-lasted boot, like the Lange ZA+ or ZSoft+, could be a good option. More broadly, the whole topic of boot flex and geometry is super complex and interesting, and no one fully understands it (look at Atomic's struggles a few years ago fixing Shiffrin's boot issues, in spite of having the company's top boot experts working on it). As you know, boots differ in forward lean, foot placement (lateral position relative to the rail, degrees of abduction, abduction axis, etc.), direction of cuff tracking (degrees of lateral or medial tracking), saggital and vertical ankle bolt postions, etc., etc. How do you use that info. to match the skier to the optimum boot during a fitting? Answer: I don't think you can. You can only do the best you can to roughly match the boot geometry to the skier. Ultimately, what's best can only be determined by on-snow testing. [The same holds for dialing in lateral and fore-aft alignment.] And since boots are more important than skis, rather than increasing the size of my ski quiver, this year I'm going to start a boot quiver. My fitter recommended five that she thinks will set up well for me. If I can find two that fit (i.e., be made to fit), I'm going to get set up in both of them, so I can ski both and find which geometry works better for me. It's like demoing skis--you can't tell what really works for you until you get on-snow, take video, and have it reviewed by a coach or instructor. Are any of your clients going to do this? Maybe not. But for those who buy new skis every year or two to see if the new hotness works better for them than the old hotness (and nothing wrong with that!), they might instead be better served by trying an entirely different boot. Because of the fitting and alignment process, it's a lot more work than trying new skis, but the payoff could be significant.
Great video with clear information! I have 18 days of skiing experience, of which I had 10 days of lessons. I weigh 74 kg (163 lbs) and am 185 cm (6'1"). Within 2 years, I want to obtain my Anwärter certification. What flex rating would you recommend for my ski boots? Yesterday, I bought the Nordica Pro Machine 120 X and had them bootfitted to my feet. I'm wondering if these boots might be too stiff for me. What do you think? If they are too stiff, could they be adjusted through bootfitting to a lower flex?
Great video! People focus mostly on skis and forget how important the boot is. Your info is 100% correct, flex is soo inconsistent from brand to brand and model to model. I would even say that we should keep in mind what ski is beneath the boot , the stiffer the ski, the stiffer the boot should be. Also another point is that touring boots gets actually lighter in higher flexes. However I do have a question. Heavier skiers will naturally need stiffer boot as their weight is flexing the boot easier. What about lightweight skiers, like me? Do they benefit from stiff boots or it is overkill? I am often told lightweight skiers cannot flex stiff boots effectively or need much more effort and tend to take the back seat as a result. I have a Tecnica Zero G 130 for touring which is rock hard and an alpine Atomic Hawx 120 that is perfectly fine.
Heavier people put more strain on the shells and stiffer boots can handle those forces more effectively. There are light people that are very strong and can handle/flex a stiff boot properly, it’s not all weight, but weight does help you generate force. The zero G’s feel blockier than the Hawx boots, the zero gs kinda stop and bite the shin making them feel stiffer than they are.
It’s funny you’re mentioning the stiffness index is not standardized in the industry. It’s the same in the cycling/mountain bike world. My current pair of mountain bike shoes has a stiffness index 12 out of 10. Great videos by the way.
This info matches everything of my last 5 months of research. Constantly day-in day-out, forums, websites, blogs, etc. I'm ready to test my Nordica 120s in 3 days here in Japan as a low intermediate skier. Especially the part about ankle flexion and forward lean, which I have problems with.
One possible oversight that I noticed is that George mentioned that some extra room, or not the most perfect fit of the boot,can cause softer feel of the boot... Maybe a possible solution is to get a smaller sized and/or going from higher volume to lower volume (ex HV to MV) type boots instead of just looking at flex rating.
Great videos thank you! I am having a problem with too much forward lean in my boots, causing major quad fatigue, and heaving a hard time finding a boot fitter who understands and can help with this issue. Any tips??
I skied on race boots when I was younger, and then kept them for many years. I finally just bought a new pair, but I got the same race boot, just the newer version. Maybe I should have tried a boot that wasn’t a race boot, been skiing my entire life and never tried a non race boot.
Subscribed. Outstanding explanation for someone new like me looking for boots. Went skiing yesterday and I ended up with blisters all across my shins.. not sure what caused this.. do you think investing in a pair rather than renting will prevent this horrible pain? Thanks!
Invest in seeing a boot fitter, if your blistering there’s too much play and maybe too much material in boot, material meaning more than a sock - base layer etc. all that should be in the boot is your sock
I also have sensitive shins - and what solved it for me are the socks with gel pads on the shins I never worry about them anymore. Previous generation of Sidas Protect socks (gel strip glued on the inside) were the best, current generation (gel pad glued on the outside) are terrible - the patch over the gel is much wider, making it very difficult tu put on without ungluing the patch - mine got unstuck after couple of days. There are couple of other brands too (found one in France where the gel insert is removable from the pouch inside the sock).
From the abstract of publication "Individual flexion stiffness of ski boots", Lorenz Immler et al. J Sci Med Sport. August 2019: "The correlation between individual flexion stiffness and nominal flex index was moderate with rs=0.64 (p
@@jdthood were all the boots the same size, same volume? The volume taken up inside every boot tested would have to be the same. Because the flex is impacted by the foot inside of it.
I'm 30+ years on skis, ski zip line in the moguls and offpiste, as well as carving the groomers. I wouldn't touch a stiff boot with a bargepole. This video is ok for intermediates on piste.
Freeride world tour athletes are about as off piste as it gets and ski in race boots if sponsorship allows, they’re preference is to be in boots that stiff because of how much the terrain wants to knock them off balance. Maintaining a ready athletic position is key. Regardless of the type of terrain being skied.
I'm about to be shopping for boots at my local ski shop and this is a lot of great information. When I was a beginner with skiing I bought some 90 flex 3 buckle boots and now I'm ready for something stiffer with 4 buckles. Thank you for this video!
As this is an interesting conversation, what if you place a person in a stiff boot then the person can't flex without lifting the heel of the boot? I feel like people will watch the take away is, give me the 130 boot when it doesn't match the persons height or weight for proper flex. This is good content and does bring up multiple opinions and thoughts around an area that isn't standardized. Good content to me creates conversation :)
Not sure if you watched the whole video, but I do say buy the stiffest boot you can properly flex. Most skiers are in boots that are too soft, not too stiff. Now for people that lack ankle mobility that isn't happening, they can't bend a boot due to mobility. So we need to work within the parameters of their anatomy. So they need to be in boots that are more upright and on the stiffer side to prevent their heel from lifting up inside the boot. Just came out with a video on this today: ua-cam.com/video/ZKw6DCo7We8/v-deo.html
@@TheSkiMonster I did watch the entire video actually twice before commenting. I do understand the point you were making and put in new perspectives I didn't think of. I'm not 100% sold on stiffer flex is the way to go for all people. It will be interesting personally I'm going down in flex this year "based on number" so it will be interesting to see if I notice what you were explaining.
@@markkeefer9437 a ski boot has 2 jobs To make a ski bend & to keep the skier in a ready and athletic position. Softer boots have a more difficult time doing both. Stiffness of boots is associated with ability more than it should be and a softer boot hinders beginners from feeling more confident or advancing.
What about Angle? I have 130 boots that are quite upright compared to an old racing boot (130) too, and I find the upright ones much easier on legs and calfs. I believe it's because I need to flex my (old) knees much less to put weight on my skis...
Yes, there could be couple other factors at play too. But in general you are in a more relaxed position being more upright and your skiing will be more relaxed too. More fair to say when you adjust forward lean on a given boot, truly being apples to apples. More forward lean, more direct and more in drivers seat - less like a passenger
Per @stuyboy's question: Within the same line, on the same foot/same volume fit, are there differences in the shell and/or liner (quality or otherwise) between a Technica Mach 1 110/120/130 or a Cochise 110/120/130? I'm not aware of quality differences so look forward to your response. Thanks
Flex is always a result of material thickness and material hardness. When we have two different flexes of the same model, they come out of the same mold, which means the material thickness in the shell is the same. The main remaining option to change is material hardness. Basically the softer flexing boots are injected with softer material. Sometimes when you get into lower flexes the material isn’t just getting softer it’s getting cheaper, this would be evident when going from PU to PP, saves a lot of money to keep margins intact.
How do you know how to find a proper boot fitter? Is there a certification or qualification to ask for at the shop? Is it unreasonable to tell them that you will return a boot if it turns out it was not properly fitted? What is a reasonable expectation for getting the right boot and not being stuck with something once it's paid for? I'm just so tired of painful boots that I settled for a comfy, soft boot, which just does not cut it in many cases.
Finding a good bootfitter is tough because the qualifications or certifications just mean you showed up to a class, there is no test. You pay the fee to go, and you’re a “master bootfitter”. It’s reasonable to ask for that if it’s obviously the wrong boot and you didn’t ask for that boot. Some customers do not want what is recommended and they buy something else, that’s not cool to ask for the shop to take it back. Happy to help you out in Boston, we do have quite a few people fly in for bootfittings.
@@TheSkiMonster Thanks for that. No, wrong coast. Getting my vert at Alyeska, probably the best snow anywhere this season or so I've heard. Just fantastic today, sunny and fast and not yet slushy.
This is very helpful. I have wondered if how much you weigh affects the stiffness of boot that you need. I was wearing boots that were not stiff and was having trouble. When I went to shop for boots, the stiffest ones felt so good. I am 5'6" and a strong 200 pounds.I had the ability to lean into the front of the boot and the resistance back seemed so right. My body was easily in the correct position. Thoughts on that?
A stiffer boot will keep you in ready position more effectively regardless of weight. Heavier people put more strain on the shells and stiffer boots can handle those forces more effectively. There are light people that are very strong and can handle/flex a stiff boot properly, it’s not all weight, but weight does help you generate force.
@@TheSkiMonster - Thank you - that makes sense to me. Great video - confirms what I suspected after trying on about 10 pairs of boots last season. They were all over the place with those stiffness numbers. Ultimately, I went with the boot that felt the most comfortable - and I could flex in the store.
Roughly what flex would you recommend a 5.10, 200 pound man, with one ski holiday under his belt, and was who just coming to terms with parallel. There are no ski shops anywhere near where I live, and I,m struggling for answers.
If you have longer upper legs / thy bones compared to your lower legs, with squatting this means you'll have to raise your ankles if you don't want to be in a forward leaning position (assuming average ankle mobility). For skiing I would imagine your knees would have to travel further as well, meaning either the boots need to be in a more forward position or you need more forward flex. Do you have any insights into this? I feel like this is never being discussed
@@roberthausmann7065 mach1 110 MV is a stiffer 110, but flex doesn’t have to do with ability. It more caps you at that ability if you will, you don’t need to be an expert to buy the 130, you’ll be a more confident skier in the stiffer boot. Confidence is good.
Is the example you gave about the clubsport 110 being more stiff than these Mach 130s accurate? I have found atomic hawx boots to be far less stiff than mach boots. I ask because I am considering a consumer race boot and am torn between going 110 or 130. I’m 5’9 160lbs I have hawx ultra xtd 130 that feels a touch soft and a lv Mach 130 thst feels plenty stiff. I’d appreciate your advice!
@@paull6678 the hawx boots are softer than the Mach1’s My (George) everyday boot is the Redster 130 which is stiffer than my Mach1 130 LV by a solid amount. My Hawx ultra 130 is significantly softer than my Mach1. Go 130
Then again… a skier must be able to flex and dominate the boot in order to turn correctly. At 5’5” and 130lb I had my Lange RS 100 “softened” to something like 90 and it changed my skiing.
So wait, the size or “width” of the boot makes it so it can flex more or less? Or I guess what do you mean by “low, mid, high volume boot?” Is it that a smaller or skinnier ankle/foot in a wider boot is going to flex more?
I went skiing for the first time in 20 years (last March). We rented our equipment from the resort (winter park). I have wide feet so it took a bit for them to find a ski boot that fit. After two days of skiing I ended up with blisters on my shins. Anything I can do to prevent blisters the next time?
Ok. All that should live in the ski boot is your ski sock, no baselayers, pants or skis pants. Also make sure the ski sock is fitted not loose or wrinkled. Make sure the buckles are snug enough on leg (can be difficult to accomplish sometimes in rentals) Rental boots for the most part are very soft and your leg moves more than it should/would in a stiffer boot causing more rubbing. Could be 1 or a combination of those things
Best for me is the sock with gel pad. Never hurting since i got a pair (as i wrote above - unfortunately new Sidas Protect socks are too easy to get unglued). You can also buy gel pads alone (but might be trickier to keep them in place)
What do I have to know about my foot to be able to choose the right boot? That is, I want the Tecnica 130 but LV, MV or HV? My mondopoint is 29. Is that enough or do I need to know more? With ski boots being ridiculously priced I want to buy the boot on line and pay for a boot fitter to fit it but I could still end up getting a boot that doesn't fit right. Also, I am trying to decide between the Tecnica and the Atomic Hawx Ultra, Prime or Magna. Years ago I skied the Tecnica All Race Pro. Custom fitted at a boot store and with cork orthotics. Fantastic boot. But my feet have changed since then so I can only go with the 130 flex. Everything else is a question.
Sidas has a measuring device which measures your feet called sidas-feetbox-3d - not sure if those are available in your area. There are much more factors than just foot length - you have foot width, instep height, but also heel size and angle and calf size. So buying online is not a practical way to find out. I'd suggest you go to the bootfitter first - they should be able to measure your foot and give you basic recomendation which brands should be suitable for your foot. Or you find a Tecnica or Atomic shor nearby and you try multiple boots. Tecnica have a variant of the same boot for various feet volumes (LV/MV/HV), Atomic also have Hawx Ultra/Prime/Magna line (not sure about others). That should give you at least basic info where are your feet on the spectrum. You can always try finding the good online price and talk to a local shop if they can match the price. Other way is also comparing the feel of existing models you already skied and compare those with online reviews. Good reviewers (e.g. blister) always mention which type of foot they have and how they felt in the boot. E.g. Scarba, Dynafit and Scoot used to be boots for people with wider foot and high instep. My narrow low instep fits rather wil into Tecnica Cochise or Atomic Hawx XTD Ultra. Its a difficult journey - but once you find a boot that fits you, its completely different feeling. Bootfiter might do some some adaptation, but proper fit is priceless.
If the ski boot manufacturers are intentionally deceiving us with respect to boot stiffness, that makes it almost impossible to objectively known the stiffness of a boot. It sounds like the best we can do as consumers is to buy expensive boots that "feel" both stiff and tight, and hope for the best... I just bought new boots and now I have zero confidence that I haven't wasted my money. Super frustrating!
It is not about deception. It is about the lack of a standard way to measure. Listen to blister gear30 podcast deep dive on ski boots - episode about the boot stiffness. Atomic do measure all the competition and tune the stiffness so their 130 flex boot fits in the middle of the range. Yet - as also explained in this video - it is difficult to standardize as same design in different foot volume flexes differently. You should not care about the number - you need to find the flex that matches your weight and fitness/skill - so you can still flex the boot. And naturally the fit. Thats always the same with humans - you can never buy shoes or clothes blindly without trying as some models might fit you, and some might not.
@@TSSR93 You can do a Zero G, won't have the same downhill performance or dampness as a hybrid boot, zero g is more touring oriented than say a Cochise, Hawx XTD or Shift. Zero G will be the best for the ascent or trek.
I have new boots and I feel my knees stay almost at 90°. I have 2 screws on the back, can I just unscrew them to get a lower flex? Rossignol doesn't answer, just sends me to a dealer. If that's how you do it, I won't pay 50€ to unscrew 2 screws. Thank you! Monica
The screws in back doesn’t change the flex of the boot as much as marketing says. You can remove one screw on each boot and it’ll feel a little less direct.
Yes. For most noticeable difference you would be swapping out the cuff softer or stiffer, that is really the only way to make the boot stiffer. The bolt being added in back just makes the boot feel more direct. It doesn’t do all that marketing says.
I mainly do freestyle skiing and so far all the full tilt/fl3x boots are giving me really bad shin pain. Do you have any recommendation for shin pain problem? Shin gel pads doesn't work as well. Was thinking about dalbello 90 gw with new liner model or should I go for 2 piece straight away and if so is it 85-90 flex (soft) or 120 flex (hard)? I do have atomic 120 ultra for carving but don't get any playfullness out of those, so feeling like leg in concrete.
@@TheSkiMonster Shooting pain during evenings and nights. Nothing visible marks on feet or shins. Worst pain and pressure point is where the upper part liner material changes and have seam, near the place where tongue starts. I have tried tongue liner version as well but pressure area just spread out more. At least on full tilts
So much good information here. As an experienced skier I have not heard half of this info about boots, not even from boot fitters.
Glad you liked it! Feel free to reach out via live chat, email or phone if you have any other questions. theskimonster.com/
As one who trained in bootfitting late 70s in a shop that had a great tech supervisor, I can say that the vast majority of people who put folks in ski boots -- they are boot providers, not boot fitters. They stock the boots, they provide them for you to try on. They may even offer follow up "fitting". But most are not fitters who understand boots, human anatomy, and skiing activity.
Consumers likely assume, if the store sells ski boots, the seller knows what's going on. In truth, all it takes to open a ski shop is money, and the ability to get retailer agreements from manufacturer representatives.
People try to inform themselves with magazine articles (pre-internet) or internet "research" but they are mostly encountering sales fluff, marketing lingo.
As a lifelong skier and someone who taught skiing for 2 yrs, about a decade back -- I would say most people buy boots too stiff for their abilities, and compound the problem by having poor technique where they swing the tails with their arse/hips while telling themselves they're skiing at a high level.
If your technique runs contrary to how the ski is designed, you're always off the sweet spot and working against the ski. If your boot is too stiff, you can't find the sweet spot because it's holding you in your inefficient, improper posture relative to the ski's sweet spot. This is why so many end up swinging their skis with their hips/arse and telling themselves they are skiing high level. They're on "black diamond" runs, so they must be experts, eh? How little they realize.
That's because for every 20-30 people out there who call themselves "bootfitters" you will only find one or two actual bootfitters. I won't go into the lengthy qualifiers, but it's a sad fact. There are are great many plastic-slingers out there, and far too few actual experts. "Ol George here is clearly one of the latter. Aside from his obvious technical knowledge, his ability to cut through the BS is something every skier or snowboarder should be looking for in a bootfitter.
First video I’ve seen to actually explain “flexing a boot” that made sense. Awesome video.
This is THE best no nonsense, easy to understand advice on ski boot flex I have ever read. I've been skiing for over 35 years and have gone through the various, sometimes painful and at other times puzzling, stages of "finding the right boot". All of what George says makes total sense to me now - if only I'd known this 35 years ago 🙂 Fantastic video ** * * *
@@davidgordon1994 thank you David, please share with your friends.
More boot vids on the way
I’ve only heard from 2 others saying the boot flex “stiffness” is really there to keep you in the proper position / help ‘recover’ per se. This is a GREAT comment and so true.
Appreciate you following along @TheBeingReal
Having seen dozens of videos on the topic, this is definitely the most professional and informative one out there.
Thanks @cluelesssss appreciate you turning in.
took me years and a lot of sore muscles to work out i needed stiffer boots. totally changed my skiing experience and proficiency
Such a great video! I'm not sure I've seen a more helpful ski video.... EVER! Thank you
Great presenter! Speaks confidently!
Omg this was the best explanation I’ve ever heard about boots. Thank you so much
Glad it was helped! Let us know if you have any other questions. theskimonster.com/
Excellent video. Fully agree. Go for a comfortable but snug fit and then if you have options, go for the stiffest boot with such a fit.
very helpful video. thanks. I have never thought of this. I just bought last time a pair of ski boots and was wearing them for the past 10 years
Wow. What a great video. Finally someone that’s explained flex well. Thank you.
Glad you liked it and found it helpful. Let us know if you have any other questions. theskimonster.com/
Awesome video George with a straight forward explanation of flex. I had no idea. Thank you
Used to ski and race with rossi equpe... 150 wasn't stiff enough as is. Yes, I riveted them plus a wider power strap( I weight 140 and six tall. and ski with my skeleton and powerful with my din set at 14 for race, 11 for all mountain.. Moved on to the redster and they did it! I'm old now and yet still love the redster and the yellow rossi's,. my go to boot also Atomic is the Hawx ultra white 130. I can make them not move on boilerplate and get a little forgiveness in the bumps and steeps.
Really loved foot space thought as I've always had zipfits and unbuckle as soon as I could. Get off lift and I'm cranking down cuz I do not want movement in the boot. My style of skiing wants to feel everything the ski is touching.
Thanks!
such a good explanation... so much stuff I wish I'd heard from bootfitters I've visited. thank you.
This was an incredibly helpful video. I'm definitely skiing in too soft of a flex... excited to test out some new ones.
The best video about ski boots I've seen to date. Well done!!
I agree 100 PERCENT I 'm 66 years old my boots are LV Technica firebird 140 flex .Just by loosening my top buckle the boot becomes softer.I did notice When I was shopping around for boots a couple of years ago the difference between manufactures .Theres definitely no consistency with boot level stiffness at all.
Omg, can we connect ?! I finally found someone with the same boots! I bought the LV Tecnica too, a couple years ago . and I’m a beginner, I bought them bc I liked the look of them & only to realize it may be too stiff for me ? I was told it’s 105 flex… it’s women’s . Are you sure it’s 140??!!! I removed the two bolts in the back and still feeling too stiff , not sure if i should suck up and learn with them or get a lower flex boots … after this video I do want to keep mine tho …
Just started researching boots and this video had some info I hadn’t heard, great video!
Glad it was helpful! Let us know if you have any other questions.
Great video totally changed my conception on ski boots
Great to hear!
Really good information to kill some misconceptions. Well done!
So helpful, I'm buying my first pair and so much different information out there but without good explanation, this was total opposite, made so much more sense, thank you
Well done. You really cleared up questions that we all have about the best boot for our skiing style and performance with comfort in mind. Seems as though the ski industry should standardize the method for measuring boot flex. I am currently in a Rossignol set of boots from 2003 and back then they didn't have flex numbers so I never knew what my number would be. There are some used boots that are exactly the same and one seller said the Power 9.1 equated to a 120 flex. They are stiff and i used to race; they were great for racing. Obviously they need to be replaced so I guess the best thing for me to do now is to spend some time in a recommended ski shop and try on several brands and flex numbers. Thanks!
George, thank you for you and Germ spreading the truth and pushing proper product fit!
Chris what’s up man!? It’s been a while, hope you’re well
Such an educational video. I went touring once with a pair of salomon boots with an 80 flex and I got huge blisters aftewards exactly at the points you mentioned; now I understood why.
Wish I saw this video 3 weeks ago, might have gone with a stiffer boot, haha. But, I think I’m pretty pleased with what the boot fitter put me in.
Thank you for the informations. Best explanations on this subject.
The fact that the ski and snowboard industry has no standardisation makes purchasing a real pain. Thanks for the insight.
Not really, go to a ski shop with a good boot fitter, they pull the liners out to fit your foot to a shell, then put you in boots to flex in the shop, you will get the number that is right for you. Don't worry about the flex number, color or brand, just fit.
LOVE this information on ski boot flex!!!
That is very good information. I would add: the flex does not only have to do with the construction of the ski boot, the skier inside becomes part of this overall construction.
100% that is mentioned in video, the flex of the boot is dependent on the foot inside of it. Which is why boots feel softer to people with lower volume feet in a given boot as there is more dead space
@@TheSkiMonsterI would think that if there's dead space, there will be certain components of the boot that will not be in tension, and therefore not contributing to stiffening the flex as designed.
Great video!
I ski 130 atomics and love them. Got to the mountain today and realized I had forgotten my boots. Used some rentals 80 flex head boots and they were comfy but I had no control off piste and on steeper runs. They were great on the groomer blues though. Super comfortable.
To be fair though, the boot was too big around my heel and ankle so there was that factor as well. Tks for the video. Good stuff.
@@crnitzsche whenever the terrain has more features that can knock you off balance, the more noticeable the lack of performance in a softer flex boot is.
Excellent information here. The right boot and flex depends on the type of skiing you prefer. Ive found banging down bumps requires more flex than carving on groomers.
The more uneven and variable terrain you encounter especially at speed, the higher the likelihood of being deflected. Stiffer boots help minimize that and keep you in a ready position
Exactly what I needed! Thank You!
Great video. Just got the Technica Mach1 MV 130's to replace older Technica TNT Icon X's.
The only way to fit a boot is to fit the foot with the most flex.
Excellent Advice.
I'm a fast hard skier on all terrain and conditions.
I just updated my equipment with the disintegration of the heal on my Technica TNT Icon X's K2 Icon X skis 107/70/97, 188 with Marker Titanium 1200's.
I got the Technica Mach1 MV 130's, K2 Disruptor Skis, 110/71/97, 187 with Marker XComp 16 bindings.
Thank you so much. I ended up buying a pair of ski boots designed for skiing moguls. My skiing transform overnight.
Amazing! Glad you are stoked.
Boot fit is so important. You don’t want “dead space” as you put it. Spend a good deal of time trying different makes and models.
Massive thank you for the work. 😃 Very informative and intuitive!
thanks that was super useful and to the point
Wow, this was great, lots of information here I did not know. Thanks for the education!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for the insights. I am hopefully purchasing new ski boots in the new year, and I wrongly thought about purchasing something middle of the road. Though, i'll take advice from the ski boot fitter its good to get the proper details. Thanks!
Dude this is a brilliant explainer video! Learned a lot.
Glad it was helpful!
@@TheSkiMonsterThe presenter’s confidence and tone of voice is really powerful in relaying this information.
I would argue that a roomier fit gives a perception of "more flex". But I do think this video brings up some good points.
Buckle up your boots tighter and you’ll notice they feel stiffer and vise versa. Less dead space gives feeling of being stiffer.
Some solid info here.
Good video. Just a few points: (1) I would think a boot would be stiffer for a lower-volume foot, because with an LV foot the skier needs to crank the buckles a lot tigher to get a good wrap, which increases the stiffness. (2) You said WC DH racers don't shy away from stiff boots in spite of the terrain vibrations they get. While WC DH racers are skiing 150+ flex boots, they are still skiing softer boots than are used in WC SL. I think that's because they don't want every bit of terrain vibration transferred to their feet, and because they don't want the boots to be as reactive. (3) As a 145 lb recreational skier looking for high performance, I ski both a Lange ZB and an Atomic Redster TI 130. I know it's not commercially viable for most stores to carry those, which is unfortunate, since it makes it harder for those of us looking for high performance boots. I actually had to mail-order them, try them on at home, and then bring them to my local fitter.
@@chemystify 1. Anytime you buckle tighter you’re decreasing dead space that’s why it’s getting stiffer, but an LV foot in an MV boot is going to have more dead space than an MV an in MV making it softer for the LV foot.
spot on: i just demo-ed the mach 1 LV 120 in 26.5 (bootfitter measured average width foot @ 27.3; so super tight fit but doable)
oh boy that boot fellt so stiff ..raceboot feeling but too tiring and unforgiving for all day resort skiing and surprisingly it fellt too upright. my current boot is a 130 from Rosignol and def feels softer
Fantastic info. Thank you.
I think you just helped me out, my skiing has been atrocious and it's making more sense. Do you by any chance have videos of how a boot looks like when you're overflexing them and maybe vice versa (when you're in too stiff of a boot)
You cannot be in too stiff a boot if it is good skiing performance you seek. Everyone should get really stiff boots as they force you to ski correctly since they will punish every tiny mistake. However.... most skiers don't want hard, small, stiff boots as they want comfort and not be punished for mistakes. Well then your skiing will suffer because of it. It's one or the other. I personally get the hardest boot that I can semi-comfortably wear a whole day. I grind the outer shell, and thicken the inner boot where necessary, until it fits properly. All my boots have laced inner boots, and very hard, thin and dense lining.
Most important is that you got the right volume skiboot for your foot.
Second, what type of skier are you?
Third, remember a stiffer boot will transfers your movements better to the ski, but will give you more feedback if you doing wrong or from bumps. Softer boots will be more forgiving and will take bumps smoother. It's basically like the suspension of a car on onside you have the stiff ones like a racecar have on the other side you have the soft ones for offroad like in a SUV.
And the last point wath Skis are you using and wich terrain you ski. There is no need to use a Race boot on a allmountain ski for example. Your hole Set up should be perfect in line for that you want it to use.
That means Boot, Binding and Ski should be set up for your needs.
unique info, makes sense! would be fun to know what manufacturers do to stiffen/soften boots within a same line, like plastic composition, design features, etc. hopefully not just changing the color, printing 90 on the side, and cheapening the liner.
Flex is always a result of material thickness and material hardness. When we have two different flexes of the same model, they come out of the same mold, which means the material thickness in the shell is the same. The main remaining option to change is material hardness.
Basically the softer flexing boots are injected with softer material.
Sometimes when you get into lower flexes the material isn’t just getting softer it’s getting cheaper, this would be evident when going from PU to PP, saves a lot of money to keep margins intact.
Super low volume foot, flexy thin ankle and skinny calves guy here. I ski 98mm Atomic Hawx Ultras since they came out and had to "downgrade" from a 110 to a 100 (with the 120 liners in them) because of how much I have to fasten the upper buckles and the strap to not have my legs move back and forth too much in the upper part of the boot (with pads added to take off some volume).
wait, what has the you went down the stiffness just a little bit and the problem with tightening the shoes went away? that seems odd, you're sure something else hasn't changed? maybe the fit between seasons?
Great video. Aggressive expert skier in well-fitted Dalbello Krypton boots. At 220# I'm told I'm a 130 flex all day. They were super responsive, but kicked me around. Guess what: subbed a 120-flex tongue in, added a couple degrees forward lean and BAM! perfect for hammering all over the mountain. Bootfitter advice is just that: advice. Not one-size-fits-all.
Great information. I recently went from a pair of head vector, which had a 100 stiffness rating, to a pair of tecnica sport HV which also have a 100 stiffness.
The head boots were my first boots and bought them online, which was a mistake. The tecnica boots I bought at a ski shop and got properly fitted. I found out that the head boots were oversized and had caused tons of foot pain over the years.
Skiied on the tecnica boots this past weekend and they were fantastic. Having boots that fit properly was huge and had zero foot pain and skiied far better.
Great info here! I have a high instep (10.5") but the length of my feet are 9.25" & 9.5". I have raced in 96mm last that seemed to crush my foot. I moved to a 27.5 mondo with a 100mm width Atomic and while it may not be the best, it seems to have worked as I had a few platinum runs but am still mostly just a Gold slalom racer with a 20-ish handicap. My GS is crap until the runs are longer and more spread out (like a Super G) and then I become a Platinum racer again. Really weird & am hoping that the right sized ski boot might help.
True, flex numbers aren't standardized. But to conclude that they therefore tell you *nothing* (other than price point) is an overstatement. First if all, as you guys say or presuppose in this and many other videos, the numbers do tell you something about the stiffness of the boot relative to other boots in the same model line. Second, manufacturers do try to align their numbers with those of their competitors. When brand A comes out with a new 130, they design it to give a user experience comparable with existing 130s.
What you do usefully point out is that the numbers also correlate with price. As you move to higher flex index within a model line the boot gets not only stiffer but also more expensive. And this means not only more profitable for the manufacturer but also higher in value: it gets stronger plastic; parts are bolted on rather than riveted; it gets more adjustment features and a better strap; the liner is made from more expensive materials, etc.
The advice to buy the highest flex index you can afford, provided you can flex the boot appropriately, is good because it is the advice to buy the highest quality boot you can both flex and afford. And this is indeed the best way to spend your money on improving your skiing experience.
What sucks about all this is that skiers who need a less stiff boot usually get stuck with a lower quality boot.
The point made in the video about actual stiffness being dependent on the foot is true but you can't conclude from it that the numbers are meaningless. Cars receive crash test ratings. The severity of an actual crash depends on many things other than the car, but that does render the ratings meaningless or useless.
Great video, and very nicely explained! I think the flex numbers can be *sort of* useful. For instance, if you're skiing a Redster TI 130, and want to try one of the Fischer RD boots, you probably want to be in the RD 130 rather than the 110 or the 150. The RD 130 of course isn't going to be an exact match to the TI 130 in stiffness or flex pattern, but it at least tells you they're in the same "family".
Also, you warned folks away from race boots. But for recreational skiers who want that extra precision, or who have really narrow feet, I think a softer race-lasted boot, like the Lange ZA+ or ZSoft+, could be a good option.
More broadly, the whole topic of boot flex and geometry is super complex and interesting, and no one fully understands it (look at Atomic's struggles a few years ago fixing Shiffrin's boot issues, in spite of having the company's top boot experts working on it). As you know, boots differ in forward lean, foot placement (lateral position relative to the rail, degrees of abduction, abduction axis, etc.), direction of cuff tracking (degrees of lateral or medial tracking), saggital and vertical ankle bolt postions, etc., etc. How do you use that info. to match the skier to the optimum boot during a fitting? Answer: I don't think you can. You can only do the best you can to roughly match the boot geometry to the skier. Ultimately, what's best can only be determined by on-snow testing. [The same holds for dialing in lateral and fore-aft alignment.] And since boots are more important than skis, rather than increasing the size of my ski quiver, this year I'm going to start a boot quiver. My fitter recommended five that she thinks will set up well for me. If I can find two that fit (i.e., be made to fit), I'm going to get set up in both of them, so I can ski both and find which geometry works better for me. It's like demoing skis--you can't tell what really works for you until you get on-snow, take video, and have it reviewed by a coach or instructor.
Are any of your clients going to do this? Maybe not. But for those who buy new skis every year or two to see if the new hotness works better for them than the old hotness (and nothing wrong with that!), they might instead be better served by trying an entirely different boot. Because of the fitting and alignment process, it's a lot more work than trying new skis, but the payoff could be significant.
Thank you for the information. Well presented!
Thanks for watching
Very good information ! Thank you !
Glad it was helpful!
Great video with clear information!
I have 18 days of skiing experience, of which I had 10 days of lessons. I weigh 74 kg (163 lbs) and am 185 cm (6'1").
Within 2 years, I want to obtain my Anwärter certification.
What flex rating would you recommend for my ski boots?
Yesterday, I bought the Nordica Pro Machine 120 X and had them bootfitted to my feet. I'm wondering if these boots might be too stiff for me. What do you think?
If they are too stiff, could they be adjusted through bootfitting to a lower flex?
Great video! Probably on of the best explained out there! Great job!
Thank you!
Great Info!
Great video! People focus mostly on skis and forget how important the boot is. Your info is 100% correct, flex is soo inconsistent from brand to brand and model to model. I would even say that we should keep in mind what ski is beneath the boot , the stiffer the ski, the stiffer the boot should be. Also another point is that touring boots gets actually lighter in higher flexes.
However I do have a question. Heavier skiers will naturally need stiffer boot as their weight is flexing the boot easier. What about lightweight skiers, like me? Do they benefit from stiff boots or it is overkill? I am often told lightweight skiers cannot flex stiff boots effectively or need much more effort and tend to take the back seat as a result. I have a Tecnica Zero G 130 for touring which is rock hard and an alpine Atomic Hawx 120 that is perfectly fine.
Heavier people put more strain on the shells and stiffer boots can handle those forces more effectively. There are light people that are very strong and can handle/flex a stiff boot properly, it’s not all weight, but weight does help you generate force.
The zero G’s feel blockier than the Hawx boots, the zero gs kinda stop and bite the shin making them feel stiffer than they are.
It’s funny you’re mentioning the stiffness index is not standardized in the industry. It’s the same in the cycling/mountain bike world. My current pair of mountain bike shoes has a stiffness index 12 out of 10.
Great videos by the way.
Thank you
Excellent information
Thanks!
You nailed it.
Thanks! 🤙🏼
This info matches everything of my last 5 months of research. Constantly day-in day-out, forums, websites, blogs, etc. I'm ready to test my Nordica 120s in 3 days here in Japan as a low intermediate skier. Especially the part about ankle flexion and forward lean, which I have problems with.
Excellent! Enjoy your first day and the whole season in your new boots. Hit us up if you have any gear questions.
theskimonster.com/
One possible oversight that I noticed is that George mentioned that some extra room, or not the most perfect fit of the boot,can cause softer feel of the boot... Maybe a possible solution is to get a smaller sized and/or going from higher volume to lower volume (ex HV to MV) type boots instead of just looking at flex rating.
We try on the same boot, we're the same size length and width. But my foot is lower volume than yours. That same boot will feel softer to me than you.
Good stuff, thanks
Buying boots sucks because you can’t get a real feel for them until you’re on the slopes and then if they’re not for you, you’re SOL.
Great videos thank you! I am having a problem with too much forward lean in my boots, causing major quad fatigue, and heaving a hard time finding a boot fitter who understands and can help with this issue. Any tips??
What boots do you have currently?
I skied on race boots when I was younger, and then kept them for many years. I finally just bought a new pair, but I got the same race boot, just the newer version. Maybe I should have tried a boot that wasn’t a race boot, been skiing my entire life and never tried a non race boot.
I wish I had known this soonee
Excellent info. As a beginner would a Dalbello DRS 130 AB be too stiff?
Race boots wouldn't be ideal as they feel dead at lower speeds. They need some real mph to come alive, harder for even some advanced skiers.
@@TheSkiMonster Good to know, thanks for the reply!
Subscribed. Outstanding explanation for someone new like me looking for boots. Went skiing yesterday and I ended up with blisters all across my shins.. not sure what caused this.. do you think investing in a pair rather than renting will prevent this horrible pain? Thanks!
Invest in seeing a boot fitter, if your blistering there’s too much play and maybe too much material in boot, material meaning more than a sock - base layer etc. all that should be in the boot is your sock
I also have sensitive shins - and what solved it for me are the socks with gel pads on the shins I never worry about them anymore. Previous generation of Sidas Protect socks (gel strip glued on the inside) were the best, current generation (gel pad glued on the outside) are terrible - the patch over the gel is much wider, making it very difficult tu put on without ungluing the patch - mine got unstuck after couple of days. There are couple of other brands too (found one in France where the gel insert is removable from the pouch inside the sock).
From the abstract of publication "Individual flexion stiffness of ski boots",
Lorenz Immler et al. J Sci Med Sport. August 2019:
"The correlation between individual flexion stiffness and nominal flex index was moderate with rs=0.64 (p
@@jdthood were all the boots the same size, same volume?
The volume taken up inside every boot tested would have to be the same.
Because the flex is impacted by the foot inside of it.
Thank you
I'm 30+ years on skis, ski zip line in the moguls and offpiste, as well as carving the groomers. I wouldn't touch a stiff boot with a bargepole.
This video is ok for intermediates on piste.
Freeride world tour athletes are about as off piste as it gets and ski in race boots if sponsorship allows, they’re preference is to be in boots that stiff because of how much the terrain wants to knock them off balance.
Maintaining a ready athletic position is key. Regardless of the type of terrain being skied.
I'm about to be shopping for boots at my local ski shop and this is a lot of great information. When I was a beginner with skiing I bought some 90 flex 3 buckle boots and now I'm ready for something stiffer with 4 buckles. Thank you for this video!
Perhaps it's time to define foot volume or boot volume and how does one determine the correct volume?
As this is an interesting conversation, what if you place a person in a stiff boot then the person can't flex without lifting the heel of the boot? I feel like people will watch the take away is, give me the 130 boot when it doesn't match the persons height or weight for proper flex. This is good content and does bring up multiple opinions and thoughts around an area that isn't standardized. Good content to me creates conversation :)
Not sure if you watched the whole video, but I do say buy the stiffest boot you can properly flex. Most skiers are in boots that are too soft, not too stiff.
Now for people that lack ankle mobility that isn't happening, they can't bend a boot due to mobility. So we need to work within the parameters of their anatomy. So they need to be in boots that are more upright and on the stiffer side to prevent their heel from lifting up inside the boot.
Just came out with a video on this today: ua-cam.com/video/ZKw6DCo7We8/v-deo.html
@@TheSkiMonster I did watch the entire video actually twice before commenting. I do understand the point you were making and put in new perspectives I didn't think of. I'm not 100% sold on stiffer flex is the way to go for all people. It will be interesting personally I'm going down in flex this year "based on number" so it will be interesting to see if I notice what you were explaining.
@@markkeefer9437 a ski boot has 2 jobs
To make a ski bend & to keep the skier in a ready and athletic position. Softer boots have a more difficult time doing both. Stiffness of boots is associated with ability more than it should be and a softer boot hinders beginners from feeling more confident or advancing.
What about Angle? I have 130 boots that are quite upright compared to an old racing boot (130) too, and I find the upright ones much easier on legs and calfs. I believe it's because I need to flex my (old) knees much less to put weight on my skis...
Yes, there could be couple other factors at play too. But in general you are in a more relaxed position being more upright and your skiing will be more relaxed too. More fair to say when you adjust forward lean on a given boot, truly being apples to apples. More forward lean, more direct and more in drivers seat - less like a passenger
Per @stuyboy's question: Within the same line, on the same foot/same volume fit, are there differences in the shell and/or liner (quality or otherwise) between a Technica Mach 1 110/120/130 or a Cochise 110/120/130? I'm not aware of quality differences so look forward to your response. Thanks
Flex is always a result of material thickness and material hardness. When we have two different flexes of the same model, they come out of the same mold, which means the material thickness in the shell is the same. The main remaining option to change is material hardness.
Basically the softer flexing boots are injected with softer material.
Sometimes when you get into lower flexes the material isn’t just getting softer it’s getting cheaper, this would be evident when going from PU to PP, saves a lot of money to keep margins intact.
@@TheSkiMonster Super, thanks. I believe Cochise use PU on the clog and PP on the cuff.
How do you know how to find a proper boot fitter? Is there a certification or qualification to ask for at the shop? Is it unreasonable to tell them that you will return a boot if it turns out it was not properly fitted? What is a reasonable expectation for getting the right boot and not being stuck with something once it's paid for? I'm just so tired of painful boots that I settled for a comfy, soft boot, which just does not cut it in many cases.
Finding a good bootfitter is tough because the qualifications or certifications just mean you showed up to a class, there is no test. You pay the fee to go, and you’re a “master bootfitter”.
It’s reasonable to ask for that if it’s obviously the wrong boot and you didn’t ask for that boot. Some customers do not want what is recommended and they buy something else, that’s not cool to ask for the shop to take it back.
Happy to help you out in Boston, we do have quite a few people fly in for bootfittings.
@@TheSkiMonster Thanks for that. No, wrong coast. Getting my vert at Alyeska, probably the best snow anywhere this season or so I've heard. Just fantastic today, sunny and fast and not yet slushy.
This is very helpful. I have wondered if how much you weigh affects the stiffness of boot that you need. I was wearing boots that were not stiff and was having trouble. When I went to shop for boots, the stiffest ones felt so good. I am 5'6" and a strong 200 pounds.I had the ability to lean into the front of the boot and the resistance back seemed so right. My body was easily in the correct position. Thoughts on that?
A stiffer boot will keep you in ready position more effectively regardless of weight. Heavier people put more strain on the shells and stiffer boots can handle those forces more effectively. There are light people that are very strong and can handle/flex a stiff boot properly, it’s not all weight, but weight does help you generate force.
@@TheSkiMonster - Thank you - that makes sense to me. Great video - confirms what I suspected after trying on about 10 pairs of boots last season. They were all over the place with those stiffness numbers. Ultimately, I went with the boot that felt the most comfortable - and I could flex in the store.
Roughly what flex would you recommend a 5.10, 200 pound man, with one ski holiday under his belt, and was who just coming to terms with parallel. There are no ski shops anywhere near where I live, and I,m struggling for answers.
@@nre1553again the numbers don’t mean anything, but if I had to put a number to it purchase a 120/130
@@TheSkiMonster thank you
If you have longer upper legs / thy bones compared to your lower legs, with squatting this means you'll have to raise your ankles if you don't want to be in a forward leaning position (assuming average ankle mobility). For skiing I would imagine your knees would have to travel further as well, meaning either the boots need to be in a more forward position or you need more forward flex. Do you have any insights into this? I feel like this is never being discussed
Intermediate skier, need ankle support. Mach 1MV 110 ok?
@@roberthausmann7065 mach1 110 MV is a stiffer 110, but flex doesn’t have to do with ability. It more caps you at that ability if you will, you don’t need to be an expert to buy the 130, you’ll be a more confident skier in the stiffer boot. Confidence is good.
@@TheSkiMonster Thanks so much for your helpful advice!
Question: You mention the boot will feel stiffer IF your foot fills up the foot bed. But SHOULD the foot fill up the foot bed? I assume yes.
If your foot fills up the shell, it is possible for your foot to fill up the footbed and not the shell. You really want both for a proper fit.
Is the example you gave about the clubsport 110 being more stiff than these Mach 130s accurate? I have found atomic hawx boots to be far less stiff than mach boots. I ask because I am considering a consumer race boot and am torn between going 110 or 130. I’m 5’9 160lbs
I have hawx ultra xtd 130 that feels a touch soft and a lv Mach 130 thst feels plenty stiff. I’d appreciate your advice!
@@paull6678 the hawx boots are softer than the Mach1’s
My (George) everyday boot is the Redster 130 which is stiffer than my Mach1 130 LV by a solid amount. My Hawx ultra 130 is significantly softer than my Mach1.
Go 130
Then again… a skier must be able to flex and dominate the boot in order to turn correctly. At 5’5” and 130lb I had my Lange RS 100 “softened” to something like 90 and it changed my skiing.
So wait, the size or “width” of the boot makes it so it can flex more or less? Or I guess what do you mean by “low, mid, high volume boot?” Is it that a smaller or skinnier ankle/foot in a wider boot is going to flex more?
@@jdhartshorn3 correct it will be softer since their is more dead space inside of it in comparison to a foot that fills up more of the boot
I went skiing for the first time in 20 years (last March). We rented our equipment from the resort (winter park). I have wide feet so it took a bit for them to find a ski boot that fit. After two days of skiing I ended up with blisters on my shins. Anything I can do to prevent blisters the next time?
Ok.
All that should live in the ski boot is your ski sock, no baselayers, pants or skis pants. Also make sure the ski sock is fitted not loose or wrinkled.
Make sure the buckles are snug enough on leg (can be difficult to accomplish sometimes in rentals)
Rental boots for the most part are very soft and your leg moves more than it should/would in a stiffer boot causing more rubbing.
Could be 1 or a combination of those things
I wonder if putting Vaseline on my shin before putting ski socks on might help.
Best for me is the sock with gel pad. Never hurting since i got a pair (as i wrote above - unfortunately new Sidas Protect socks are too easy to get unglued). You can also buy gel pads alone (but might be trickier to keep them in place)
What do I have to know about my foot to be able to choose the right boot? That is, I want the Tecnica 130 but LV, MV or HV? My mondopoint is 29. Is that enough or do I need to know more? With ski boots being ridiculously priced I want to buy the boot on line and pay for a boot fitter to fit it but I could still end up getting a boot that doesn't fit right. Also, I am trying to decide between the Tecnica and the Atomic Hawx Ultra, Prime or Magna. Years ago I skied the Tecnica All Race Pro. Custom fitted at a boot store and with cork orthotics. Fantastic boot. But my feet have changed since then so I can only go with the 130 flex. Everything else is a question.
Sidas has a measuring device which measures your feet called sidas-feetbox-3d - not sure if those are available in your area. There are much more factors than just foot length - you have foot width, instep height, but also heel size and angle and calf size. So buying online is not a practical way to find out. I'd suggest you go to the bootfitter first - they should be able to measure your foot and give you basic recomendation which brands should be suitable for your foot. Or you find a Tecnica or Atomic shor nearby and you try multiple boots. Tecnica have a variant of the same boot for various feet volumes (LV/MV/HV), Atomic also have Hawx Ultra/Prime/Magna line (not sure about others).
That should give you at least basic info where are your feet on the spectrum. You can always try finding the good online price and talk to a local shop if they can match the price.
Other way is also comparing the feel of existing models you already skied and compare those with online reviews. Good reviewers (e.g. blister) always mention which type of foot they have and how they felt in the boot. E.g. Scarba, Dynafit and Scoot used to be boots for people with wider foot and high instep. My narrow low instep fits rather wil into Tecnica Cochise or Atomic Hawx XTD Ultra. Its a difficult journey - but once you find a boot that fits you, its completely different feeling. Bootfiter might do some some adaptation, but proper fit is priceless.
Dead space? What is that? Is live space more desirable?
Excellent tutorial. Marketing messes up a lot of stuff.
Try side by side before you buy!
If the ski boot manufacturers are intentionally deceiving us with respect to boot stiffness, that makes it almost impossible to objectively known the stiffness of a boot.
It sounds like the best we can do as consumers is to buy expensive boots that "feel" both stiff and tight, and hope for the best...
I just bought new boots and now I have zero confidence that I haven't wasted my money. Super frustrating!
It is not about deception. It is about the lack of a standard way to measure. Listen to blister gear30 podcast deep dive on ski boots - episode about the boot stiffness. Atomic do measure all the competition and tune the stiffness so their 130 flex boot fits in the middle of the range. Yet - as also explained in this video - it is difficult to standardize as same design in different foot volume flexes differently. You should not care about the number - you need to find the flex that matches your weight and fitness/skill - so you can still flex the boot. And naturally the fit. Thats always the same with humans - you can never buy shoes or clothes blindly without trying as some models might fit you, and some might not.
I feel less bad to buy a pair of technica g zero g tour scout @ 120. Im an intermediate skier @ 170 lbs. what do you think ?
@@TSSR93 are you touring or doing a lot of boot packing?
If not than don’t buy a zero G
@@TheSkiMonster 50 resort 50 touring i must say. Whats your pick ?
@ what skis, what bindings?
@@TheSkiMonster armada shift 10 and the ski k2 mindbender 90c
@@TSSR93 You can do a Zero G, won't have the same downhill performance or dampness as a hybrid boot, zero g is more touring oriented than say a Cochise, Hawx XTD or Shift. Zero G will be the best for the ascent or trek.
I have new boots and I feel my knees stay almost at 90°. I have 2 screws on the back, can I just unscrew them to get a lower flex? Rossignol doesn't answer, just sends me to a dealer. If that's how you do it, I won't pay 50€ to unscrew 2 screws. Thank you! Monica
The screws in back doesn’t change the flex of the boot as much as marketing says. You can remove one screw on each boot and it’ll feel a little less direct.
@@TheSkiMonster Thank you for your quick answer! I'll try it for the next ski day 🙂
For what its worth a good bootfiter can make a boot softer wheres its very hard if not impossible to make one stiffer
Yes. For most noticeable difference you would be swapping out the cuff softer or stiffer, that is really the only way to make the boot stiffer. The bolt being added in back just makes the boot feel more direct. It doesn’t do all that marketing says.
Date your skis; marry your boots.
I mainly do freestyle skiing and so far all the full tilt/fl3x boots are giving me really bad shin pain. Do you have any recommendation for shin pain problem? Shin gel pads doesn't work as well.
Was thinking about dalbello 90 gw with new liner model or should I go for 2 piece straight away and if so is it 85-90 flex (soft) or 120 flex (hard)? I do have atomic 120 ultra for carving but don't get any playfullness out of those, so feeling like leg in concrete.
In your fl3x boots does it feel like pressure , shin splints or a little bit of both?
@@TheSkiMonster Shooting pain during evenings and nights. Nothing visible marks on feet or shins. Worst pain and pressure point is where the upper part liner material changes and have seam, near the place where tongue starts. I have tried tongue liner version as well but pressure area just spread out more. At least on full tilts
@@EthanPulkkinen hurt to walk and basically raise your toes off the ground?
@@TheSkiMonster Doesn't hurt as long as nothing is touching shins
@@EthanPulkkinen sorry for all these questions but this how a boot fit would go.
Is the boot loose around your leg and calf?