Most important part of the boot is the fitter. I lost over $2k trying to use two different touring boots I had "professionally" fitted. Maybe it's harder to fit older feet that have spread with age? I don't know, but I feel burned that I paid that much money for boots I can't use. Don't make my mistake. Find the best fitter you can. Travel if you have to.
Great video, lots of good info. Your terminology doesn't seem to be standard though, often the term "alpine touring boots" is used to refer to what you call "free touring boots", to contrast it with "nordic touring" or telemark (a whole other kettle of fish entirely). The difference between AT touring boots and hybrid boots is also not entirely clear to me - would you just use weight to discriminate here? It seems many people just lump these two categories together and call them hybrid boots.
Yes I agree the categories AT, hybrid and free touring can be a confusing. Let me see if it can break it down further for you. AT or alpine touring boots are alpine boots you can tour with so they are heavy, have grip walk soles a smaller range of motion, bigger buckles.’ Etc. Free touring boots are much lighter, lighter buckles, thinner plastic, full touring sole (full rubber which is resole-able but not replaceable), not compatible in grip walk bindings. Hybrid is in the middle. Lighter than AT, heavier than free touring. Grip walk sole so more suited to everyday skiing that scrambling around on rocks, better range of motion than full AT boots. It might not be how the industry refers to it in certain countries but it’s a neater way to categorise boots IMO.
We're trying to at least get terminology standardised so we can have a clear dialogue between us. A quick google search and all three of the catagories we use come up with a mix of all three. To us at least they are very different. "Hybrid" once meant a ski boot that tours, or a touring boot that skis. Since covid, touring has birthed many different terms, we've tried here to explain how the spread works for us and you, hopefully the web, journalists and manufactures will adopt these terms, however we see perhaps one of the ranges disappearing, probably Alpine Touring since materials drop weight. That would mean Hybrid becomes a term more important. Who knows, but for now the three exist.
Dave & Sole Sports Lab: I have skied with work several times and they provide all the kit. Ski 1 was purely resort piste skiing and then Ski 2 was more off-piste skiing with touring. I am looking for a boot which will allow me to enjoy resorts and start to tour as well, but as I am a UK resident and will need to travel to ski my options of skiing will always be limited to who I go with, where I go and what I aim to achieve. The hybrid boots seem to be the perfect selection for me, however is there a more specific name or several example models which you recommend to look at. From my previous instructors he has recommended something between 110 - 120 flex. I am new to all this kit names and information but any help would be appreciated.
Hey man, love the video, I have a question. I love Lange ski boots, and I usually ride Rossignol 110 sender, but I am in between buying the Lange Shadow or the Lange Rs series, I am undecided since I also like park, and was wondering if you recommend RS series boots for Jumps and Rails?
The race boots will take a lot more adjustment to get right most likely. The shadow will probably be plenty good enough but easier going. Talk to the experts at Sole though!
Thanks Dave, really good video, although you have just highlighted that my current AT boots are not compatible with my WC slalom skis. So maybe not thanks? 😀
This was a very helpful video, but I'm a bit confused trying to apply this classification to Salomon's lineup. They don't seem to have a boot that's in between an alpine boot (their S/Pro line, no walk mode or tech inserts) and their hybrid line (Shift Pro, with walk mode, tech inserts, and a lighter construction).
As is at the moment they don’t offer both AT and Hybrid. One of those categories will probably disappear over time. The Shift is a very light AT boot, so would find itself more at home in the Hybrid Catagory. AT boots typically weighing in at 1600-1800 gms shell only in size 26.5 and the Hybrids 1400-1600gms. This as because different manufactures are at different points in their boot development and ranges. The heavier the boot the better it drives a wider, heavier and stiffer ski. The lighter, the easier to pick up on the uphill. Hope that helps.
I've been been running a hybrid boot with a shift binding for a while. I've got the opportunity to do some in-resort stuff coming up and was looking to invest in some downhill/ race boots and GS skis to help develop my skiing. I was looking to fit quiver killers to move my Shift bindings between skis (quiver killers to save additional binding expenses). I want to keep things interoperable, so my theory is to always carry skins and when the fluffy stuff is there I can disappear off-piste and if/when I have to stick the skins on to get home I can (albeit it with significant discomfort-but happy to pay the price). Really interested in your modified race boots (pin lugs and grip sole), is that something you did yourself or did you seek help; if so how did you do it?
It's nice that you have the different boot purposes defined, But it's almost useless if manufacturers don't also label their boots with these categories. There's no way for me to know if I'm shopping for a hybrid or free touring boot, if the boot I'm actually looking at from retailer is that genre. Most sellers just put everything with a walk mode and tech binding compatibility as an "alpine touring boot", which puts the exact same label on a Technica Zero G as on a Technica Cochise.
Maybe retailers need to start adopting these terms more then as they cover the categories of ski boots well. At least now someone who has watched my video will know the difference between a Cochise and a zero g boot and might end up with the right thing.
Yeah the Mach 1 is a great boot but you can’t put pin inserts in. not a major problem if you have a dedicated touring boot or don’t tour but if it’s something you might do then probably worth bumping up to the Cochise
@@DaveSearle - The Mach1 is a better alpine skiing boot, the move to a Cochise is a step down. Yeah, I'm alpine skiing. no need for pinned boots, or walking soles, that I replaced. Thanks for the reply.
You have an article anywhere covering the same stuff? Really enjoyed the video and useful to the point i want to refer back to it, whichnis more convenient in written form if thst exists!
Finally a proper overview of the ski boot world, great video! I know you run a 3 boot set up, but if you would run a 2 boot set up what would be your preferred categories?
I’d probably go for a light free touring boot and something more downhill focused. I like to ski hard in resort and use proper bindings (by proper I mean downhill) as much as I can. I wouldn’t want to fully give up that gear. But then I’d miss having a really light boot on longer days. Good job I don’t have to decide!
Unfortunately not, running a thinner liner, which will effect fit will however mean you tighten the boot, remove elasticity and stiffen it up. Alternatively only use them below -20degrees, that will work too! 😅
@@davidhudson7400 nope, booster adds elasticity, not stiffness, zip fit would depend on volume taken up, however may have an effect, but unlikely to justify the huge price tag. We don’t stock or use Zipfit, don’t see the point.
Many plans but mostly stuff focused on skiing and ski mountineering over the coming weeks and months. in this series we'll talk about shel selection, Footbeds and liners.
The grumpiest blokes in Cham. God forbid you turn up there having bought a pair of boots on the internet! No trip to Cham is complete without being harragnued in Sole for your skiboot/foot-mechanics heresy. Apostates repent--heel lifts will keep being added until morale improves.
Why anyone would buy ski boots blindly off the internet is beyond me…like turning up to restaurant with all the wrong ingredients for the chef to make you dinner. 😂
Hold on, did you say PU is resistant to temperature changes? It is exactly the opposite. One of the main advantages of PA (which is otherwise a material I dislike strongly) is that it performs relatively similar in various temperatures. PU is known for softening up when it is warm and becoming much stiffer when it is cold. It is however much damper, progressively flexing and is a material preferred for making the more powerful boots, including the race boots.
It’s a very interesting subject for sure, what I think Dave is saying is that Polyether is a more stable plastic than polypropylene or polyester. Polyamides are super easy to mess around with, the Grilamid we’re talking about is also super stable but not all are. It’s difficult to généralise regards the “amides” as they’re so bespoke. It’s hard to get all this across without going too deep and losing the key points. Hope that’s more satisfactory, happy to try get closer to precise facts in person. Again that’s difficult without actual TG figures, and data.
@@tonyg3091 without actual data sheets for the ether/ester, and likewise for the exact PA I can’t agree or disagree. Dave could do us a series of 1000 videos to help get deeper in but not sure it would be of as much help.
Most important part of the boot is the fitter. I lost over $2k trying to use two different touring boots I had "professionally" fitted. Maybe it's harder to fit older feet that have spread with age? I don't know, but I feel burned that I paid that much money for boots I can't use. Don't make my mistake. Find the best fitter you can. Travel if you have to.
Great video, lots of good info. Your terminology doesn't seem to be standard though, often the term "alpine touring boots" is used to refer to what you call "free touring boots", to contrast it with "nordic touring" or telemark (a whole other kettle of fish entirely). The difference between AT touring boots and hybrid boots is also not entirely clear to me - would you just use weight to discriminate here? It seems many people just lump these two categories together and call them hybrid boots.
Yes I agree the categories AT, hybrid and free touring can be a confusing. Let me see if it can break it down further for you. AT or alpine touring boots are alpine boots you can tour with so they are heavy, have grip walk soles a smaller range of motion, bigger buckles.’ Etc. Free touring boots are much lighter, lighter buckles, thinner plastic, full touring sole (full rubber which is resole-able but not replaceable), not compatible in grip walk bindings. Hybrid is in the middle. Lighter than AT, heavier than free touring. Grip walk sole so more suited to everyday skiing that scrambling around on rocks, better range of motion than full AT boots. It might not be how the industry refers to it in certain countries but it’s a neater way to categorise boots IMO.
We're trying to at least get terminology standardised so we can have a clear dialogue between us. A quick google search and all three of the catagories we use come up with a mix of all three. To us at least they are very different. "Hybrid" once meant a ski boot that tours, or a touring boot that skis. Since covid, touring has birthed many different terms, we've tried here to explain how the spread works for us and you, hopefully the web, journalists and manufactures will adopt these terms, however we see perhaps one of the ranges disappearing, probably Alpine Touring since materials drop weight. That would mean Hybrid becomes a term more important. Who knows, but for now the three exist.
These videos are awesome Dave! Amazing content and knowledge, keep them coming!
Thanks very much!
Agree, great videos and insights!
Comprehensive yet concise. Bet this will be super helpful for many looking to choose the right boots for their style of skiing!
Thanks Teague!
Very informative, thanks for doing this!
No worries!
Dave & Sole Sports Lab: I have skied with work several times and they provide all the kit. Ski 1 was purely resort piste skiing and then Ski 2 was more off-piste skiing with touring. I am looking for a boot which will allow me to enjoy resorts and start to tour as well, but as I am a UK resident and will need to travel to ski my options of skiing will always be limited to who I go with, where I go and what I aim to achieve. The hybrid boots seem to be the perfect selection for me, however is there a more specific name or several example models which you recommend to look at. From my previous instructors he has recommended something between 110 - 120 flex. I am new to all this kit names and information but any help would be appreciated.
Great video. I’d be super interested to know what you think about Zipfit liners in a future video.
Didn’t say much about them in this video series, just touched on them. But I am getting a pair to try out.
Hey man, love the video, I have a question. I love Lange ski boots, and I usually ride Rossignol 110 sender, but I am in between buying the Lange Shadow or the Lange Rs series, I am undecided since I also like park, and was wondering if you recommend RS series boots for Jumps and Rails?
The race boots will take a lot more adjustment to get right most likely. The shadow will probably be plenty good enough but easier going. Talk to the experts at Sole though!
Thanks Dave, really good video, although you have just highlighted that my current AT boots are not compatible with my WC slalom skis. So maybe not thanks? 😀
Your welcome! Better to know so you aren’t skiing around at Din “who fing knows” race boots for race skis!
Best bar in Cham!
Great video!! when something related to alpine tourism or mountaineering? like choosing a mountain boot or equipment for an alpine climbing expedition
Ill likely be doing that type of stuff in the spring time. For me ski season is here so it’s time to talk about that!
This was a very helpful video, but I'm a bit confused trying to apply this classification to Salomon's lineup. They don't seem to have a boot that's in between an alpine boot (their S/Pro line, no walk mode or tech inserts) and their hybrid line (Shift Pro, with walk mode, tech inserts, and a lighter construction).
As is at the moment they don’t offer both AT and Hybrid. One of those categories will probably disappear over time. The Shift is a very light AT boot, so would find itself more at home in the Hybrid Catagory. AT boots typically weighing in at 1600-1800 gms shell only in size 26.5 and the Hybrids 1400-1600gms. This as because different manufactures are at different points in their boot development and ranges. The heavier the boot the better it drives a wider, heavier and stiffer ski. The lighter, the easier to pick up on the uphill. Hope that helps.
Yeah it doesn’t fit to all ski boot manufacturers
Hurry up! I'm going down to get a new pair of boots this Friday!
Next video comes out next week I’m afraid. The guys at sole will help you through the rest of the process!
Great video! What if you could only choose one?
For me it would be free touring, but for a lot of folks I bet they would choose hybrid.
I've been been running a hybrid boot with a shift binding for a while. I've got the opportunity to do some in-resort stuff coming up and was looking to invest in some downhill/ race boots and GS skis to help develop my skiing. I was looking to fit quiver killers to move my Shift bindings between skis (quiver killers to save additional binding expenses). I want to keep things interoperable, so my theory is to always carry skins and when the fluffy stuff is there I can disappear off-piste and if/when I have to stick the skins on to get home I can (albeit it with significant discomfort-but happy to pay the price). Really interested in your modified race boots (pin lugs and grip sole), is that something you did yourself or did you seek help; if so how did you do it?
Sole bootlab can do it! Certain other places can do it too. You should also check out the cast system. Better than the shift for a race boot…
Please don’t put shift on a race ski, please!!!!!!
If you wanna give me a call I’ll talk you through it, even better swing by and let me show what I’ll be banging on about for hours……😂
Great video! Thank you
🙌
Awesome
🙌
Nicely done !
It's nice that you have the different boot purposes defined, But it's almost useless if manufacturers don't also label their boots with these categories. There's no way for me to know if I'm shopping for a hybrid or free touring boot, if the boot I'm actually looking at from retailer is that genre. Most sellers just put everything with a walk mode and tech binding compatibility as an "alpine touring boot", which puts the exact same label on a Technica Zero G as on a Technica Cochise.
Maybe retailers need to start adopting these terms more then as they cover the categories of ski boots well. At least now someone who has watched my video will know the difference between a Cochise and a zero g boot and might end up with the right thing.
@@DaveSearle I'd be all for more granular detail from mfg and retailers. It's a lot to break down!
How would you rank the Technica Mach1 130 with Alpine soles? To me the closest to a pure race boot with the ability to insert a waling sole.
Yeah the Mach 1 is a great boot but you can’t put pin inserts in. not a major problem if you have a dedicated touring boot or don’t tour but if it’s something you might do then probably worth bumping up to the Cochise
@@DaveSearle - The Mach1 is a better alpine skiing boot, the move to a Cochise is a step down.
Yeah, I'm alpine skiing. no need for pinned boots, or walking soles, that I replaced.
Thanks for the reply.
You have an article anywhere covering the same stuff? Really enjoyed the video and useful to the point i want to refer back to it, whichnis more convenient in written form if thst exists!
Timestamps could be another helpful feature! Thanks
I look at adding time stamps but no plans to make an article at this point.. this information can be found on the sole bootlab website!
Finally a proper overview of the ski boot world, great video! I know you run a 3 boot set up, but if you would run a 2 boot set up what would be your preferred categories?
I’d probably go for a light free touring boot and something more downhill focused. I like to ski hard in resort and use proper bindings (by proper I mean downhill) as much as I can. I wouldn’t want to fully give up that gear. But then I’d miss having a really light boot on longer days. Good job I don’t have to decide!
Yeah Dave, just run one boot, that could work!!!!😅
great video, looking forward to the rest of the series.
Great stuff! What other kind of stuff are you going to be making videos on? And is there any way to make my Technica Cochise 120s stiffer?
Unfortunately not, running a thinner liner, which will effect fit will however mean you tighten the boot, remove elasticity and stiffen it up. Alternatively only use them below -20degrees, that will work too! 😅
@@solebootlab7541 Would using something like a booster strap or a zip fit liner help?
@@davidhudson7400 nope, booster adds elasticity, not stiffness, zip fit would depend on volume taken up, however may have an effect, but unlikely to justify the huge price tag. We don’t stock or use Zipfit, don’t see the point.
@@solebootlab7541 so only way to increase stiffness would be to get a new boot?
Many plans but mostly stuff focused on skiing and ski mountineering over the coming weeks and months. in this series we'll talk about shel selection, Footbeds and liners.
The grumpiest blokes in Cham. God forbid you turn up there having bought a pair of boots on the internet! No trip to Cham is complete without being harragnued in Sole for your skiboot/foot-mechanics heresy. Apostates repent--heel lifts will keep being added until morale improves.
Why anyone would buy ski boots blindly off the internet is beyond me…like turning up to restaurant with all the wrong ingredients for the chef to make you dinner. 😂
@@DaveSearle some people live in places without shops that sell touring boots.
Our disappointment at your decision making is hard to hide. I hope the heel raisers helped, at worst you stand a little taller!!😂
Hold on, did you say PU is resistant to temperature changes? It is exactly the opposite. One of the main advantages of PA (which is otherwise a material I dislike strongly) is that it performs relatively similar in various temperatures.
PU is known for softening up when it is warm and becoming much stiffer when it is cold. It is however much damper, progressively flexing and is a material preferred for making the more powerful boots, including the race boots.
It’s a very interesting subject for sure, what I think Dave is saying is that Polyether is a more stable plastic than polypropylene or polyester. Polyamides are super easy to mess around with, the Grilamid we’re talking about is also super stable but not all are. It’s difficult to généralise regards the “amides” as they’re so bespoke. It’s hard to get all this across without going too deep and losing the key points. Hope that’s more satisfactory, happy to try get closer to precise facts in person. Again that’s difficult without actual TG figures, and data.
@@solebootlab7541 It isn’t that complicated really. PU is sensitive to temperature, PA-much less so.
@@tonyg3091 without actual data sheets for the ether/ester, and likewise for the exact PA I can’t agree or disagree. Dave could do us a series of 1000 videos to help get deeper in but not sure it would be of as much help.