No apologies for the clickbait. I had to be clear that this is somehow EVEN BETTER than the match these two played at the world cup. The final game raises the bar so high that I debated splitting it into it's own video, but that would cheapen the 90 minutes of insane 1000+ APM games leading into the final battle.
No worries! Your casts are always first class entertaining! Vis-a-vis the player names, i m almost sure you are aware that there is a song called "Fear of the Dark" by the Band Iron Maiden. I wanted to mention it, just in case - since it fits so well with the shrine to dark and all that. :D
I've said it before, but I love your reliability, Winter! Each day, I open UA-cam, hoping to find a new cast, and it's always there. You're like that one friend who always answers when you call. Cheers!
Yes please. Seconded. And throwing out the request for a Winter compilation of Winter-isms. I'd watch an hour and a half of just snippets of Winter telling stories. And talking about player names. 11/10, favourite commentator ever.
As an old man with a now thermodynamically efficient brain who has loved playing zergling muta since the first seasons of SC1, that first game was immensely satisfying
SC2 Marine, Mine, Medic should normally wreck the hell out of Muta/ling. Sorry. Even the highly nerfed widow mines can one-shot an entire page of Zerglings or even one-shot one mutalisk and severely damage the rest of the entire flock of mutas if they clump too much. Mutalisks are AWFUL in SC1. Their average DPS is about 1/3rd of a marine which costs 4 times less than the mutalisk in total, and Marine/medic flat out destroys Muta/ling so badly that there is never a reason to make Mutalisks vs Terran in SC1 vanilla nor broodwar. Instead, the Zerg should go ling/lurker/queen/defiler to win. I used to be a Code S Broodwar player as every race, so I know what I'm talking about. Zerg players who don't use Queens in Broodwar or SC1 Vanilla are IDIOTS.
The only way you will EVER beat a real Code S Terran in Broodwar as Zerg is if you make at least 1 Queen per Tank or Goliath your opponent makes. If you don't make at least 2 Queens, it is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE to stop the fastest two tank push when supported by marines and medics....it will run right over your ling/muta army and contain you to 2 bases and then you're stuck as a 2 base Zerg vs a 3 or 4 base Terran and you just auto-lose the game. I know, because I used to play wth "4You" who was one of the best Korean pros to ever play the game,a nd without 2 Queens you CANNOT stop his 2 tanks push....not even close to stop it. I tried everything for a month before I realized Queens was the ONLY way to stop a 2 tanks push Terran in BW. Mutalisks are even worse against Protoss, because X number of Corsairs beats about twice it's value in Mutalisks, since they splash up to 8 targets per shot. Mutalisks are not even good against another Zerg, because if you stack your mutas to "circle strafe micro" you will get hit by a Queen Ensnare or defiler Plague and lose your entire air army. That's why most Code S go hydralisk in all 3 ZvsX matchups in SC1 and Broodwar. Hydralisk and Lurker are two of the most cost-effective units in Broodwar, especially the lurkers when supported by Defilers and Queens.
@@comradesillyotter1537 Bomber doesn't play anymore. He quit because he got bored with winning. ProTech doesn't play 1vs1 anymore. He quit 1vs1 because it is quote, "Too easy to beat GMs at 1vs1."
Even though Winter has used a title like this a number of times before, somehow I trust that this isn't clickbait. Pretty sure I won't be disappointed.
The matches are usually pretty good regardless. Doesn't matter if the vid title is super hyped or simply "[Player Name] vs. [Player Name]" I'm gonna watch either way.
1:48:20 - this war fought by ghosts and infestors, the next by marines and queens, great job mate, I was also here when you flubbed that same joke a couple months ago and it just makes a fan proud to see you nail it on this, the most epic of games.
I love Winters Commentary: "He needs to keep it in the back of his mind... maybe even at the front of his mind... idk how it works" "How many times do we have to teach you this lesson... YOUNG man" "the Mutas have gone extinct!" man im wheezing i cannot
Feels like both ghosts and widow mines need to cost 1 more supply each. Clem literally has 20+ mines scattered around the map, a 10ghost hit team, 15medivacs and random tanks around and a good 60scvs but he can still field a massive marine marauder army. Something doesn't add up with Terran supply numbers.
They get to cut workers and still outmine their opponents with fewer bases in the late too. It's surprising terran hasn't been crushing it harder for longer honestly.
yup, roach and ghost, same supply. mules no supply. ghost shouldnt be able to snipe every unit and instakill every non-armored, also none biologicals, only 40dmg to armored units. snipe huge cooldown but no energy need. ghost=light unit, and cost 100m-150g, as the infestor and have only 80hp.
game 3, Clem loses half of his scvs (29!) pre-8 minutes. just fucking shrugs it off and wins anyway. no Z can lose 29 drones so early and come back. also, the widow mine abuse is insane. it costs so, so much more APM to avoid mines than to use them. they allow T to have amazing trades while macroing or looking elsewhere, while heavily punishing opponents for macroing or looking elsewhere. it legitimately makes me question whether balancing around winrates is at all balanced. i cannot believe that winning as T takes as much skill as with P or Z. the disproportionate amount of T participants and TvT matches we get in every big tournament makes me wonder even more.
@@kathorseesI just lost a PvT ladder game on where i killed all Terran SCV by the 4:08 mark, he just drops 4 miles and acted like he didn't lose any workers... Shows up like a minute later with 25 supply of stimmed bio and rolls over my gateway units.
Great series! Love it when there really isn't one person with a major lead because both players have been trading punches non stop while trying to sneak a dagger in each other's sides at the same time.
god damn this was amazing, it's crazy how good they both are, I keep having no idea how either is still alive every minute of these games, especially the last one
This matchup is just so, so broken. In game 1 the fact that it took 27 minutes for Clem to finally not have a way back in illustrates it perfectly. That was one of the most thorough trouncings I've ever seen in SC2, and Terran gets to just keep going, waiting for a single mistake from Zerg to win the game for no reason.
It is true. Mules make it way too easy for Terran to stay in the game, even with much less bases and also castrate the real impact of harassment in later stages of the game.
Me and a friend always joke that matches vs Terrans are "The terran lost only 30 scvs, this might not be sufficient damage" "The Terran killed 4 drones/probes, we're now just watching a slow death animation"
Agreed 100%, zerg has to take huge risks and throw away hundreds of supply for low potential reward while terran has the privilege to throw low risk low supply high reward drops everywhere, because the intended counter to drops (mutas) is just too expensive in both gas and APM. Units are supposed to have weaknesses. Most of terran's units are balanced and fun because they have weaknesses. Siege tank has a great design. Its inability to move when deployed is a legit weakness that can reasonably be exploited and countered. Tanks are potentially game-endingly powerful if the terran can find and set up a great defensive position, but it's not unwinnable. Makes for great games. The marine's weakness is supposed to be that it's slow and relatively immobile. Medivacs make marines among the most mobile unit in the game, more mobile than zerglings in fact because zerglings don't fly. Imagine if zerg had a unit that synergized with its basic infantry so well that it completely removed the zergling's intended weakness (its low hp). Imagine cracklings with all their speed and dps but that are also infuriatingly hard to kill and you'll understand why I think medivacs are bullshit. Supported by medivacs, marines just do not have any weaknesses. They deal insane, game-ending damage, they're hard to kill, they're fast, and they fly. Insane that people can watch a terran drop a zerg to death and think it's "a good game" and not just a kid being bullied for 20 minutes with no recourse. It's not exciting, it's just frustrating and sad. AND GHOSTS. Ghosts are the most overpowered unit in the game, period. No spellcaster should scale that well with numbers. You shouldn't be able to make 30 of your late game spellcaster and win. If half your army supply is in spellcasters, your army should be *less* powerful, not more. Remember when Infestors scaled really well because of infested terran spam? Yeah, they NERFED it, for good reason.
@@davehollis5816 This is dead-on. Z and P are actually fairly impressively balanced, I think with the exception of Disruptors needing a rework to make them more consistent. On the other hand, the entire current design of Terran is a joke. To the point of them being overwhelmingly the most successful and powerful option at every level of play (outside of the top 0.0001% being split between zerg and terran.) Marine-Medivac, Mules/Scans, Widow Mines, and Ghosts are each totally independently, game-breakingly overpowered.... But we're just used to it...? Like, nobody looks at the ladder winrates at ANY tier? OR watches the games?
@@vox5505 I do also think Mules, scans, and widow mines are potentially a bit overtuned. But to me they're not as bad as the things I whined about already. It *is* kind of nuts that a terran can lose half his workers and survive. But it's not like mules are totally free. The mule/scan tradeoff is meaningful I think, and there *is* counterplay there. Scans aren't *as* troublesome IMO until the very late game when you can afford to have 9-12 orbitals, when it starts really feeling like map hacks. But that does cost a lot of money, so it's hard for me to call it IMBA and feel like I'm being honest. Widow Mines are definitely too cheap for what they can do. But I don't think they're THAT broken. Again, there is counterplay. The reason I call out medivacs in particular is that there IS no counterplay to mass multidrops. You drop 8 or 16 marines, you can either win the game outright or do *some* damage and escape for free. You risk nothing, it takes very little micro compared to what the zerg has to do to defend, and you are guaranteed to do some damage, if not just win. As soon as the ling swarm finally approaches, you just instantly slurp back up into space and zoom away, consequence free. There's nothing the zerg can do about this. It's either lose because the damage from mass drops unavoidably stacks up and puts you behind, or you lose because you sunk thousands of gas into a unit that can't fight, and your army is now too weak to handle pushes. It's got to be the most frustrating and unfair interaction imaginable for the zerg, but we're all supposed to think of it as "exciting" and "high octane" because balance discussion is so brutally stigmatized. Thanks for the reply btw.
As an SC 1 player I've never understood how sc2 players build 1 anti air turret and say "yep, this is enough". And equally how no opponents realize this
It feels like every week you post "the best match I've ever seen", and yet you never lie lol! SC2 is still the greatest game to watch for me. No game could possibly come close to a good TvZ in SC2.
Yes. And then there was 1:42:54 "How many ghosts are left? Just one! And that's not enough. He wants to cancel that harder than Blizzard would.", which also may have gone unnoticed by some, though this is not one for the history buffs :)
OMG when clem won the last finals, i commented that his air superiority was key to his play, and the zerg needs (upgraded) mutas to take down the medivacs continuously. I just watched the G1, and i see Raynor bringing my idea to live. im extatic. SO MANY epic moves in this first game ! the baneling traps ! the grand strategy (see how he used the mutas so Clem had to retreat to his base) , and even a Serral-festor ! i will make a bookmark in my browser bar just so i can watch this again and again. quite like the finals of soccer world cup 98
I loved the baneling callback in the first game. Eats a bane hit and immediately scans after: "oh what a fool to look for them after they went off!" so he remembers not to scan on a bane hit: "oh what a fool he didn't check for more!"
man! I gotta say I love to see winter changing his voice and making up crazy fun dialogues as Susan ou Brenda (queens) talking to their imaginary counterparts! its max level entertainment
top favorite winter moments; 1) when brenda/susan/margret ect psionically channel their thoughts into winter and he "blacks out" showing us what they are saying. 2) when he calls YOUR mom (not my mom) Massive. 3) when he yells at Jimmy for anything. 4) when he tells us to like and sub and we might get another cast (even though he will probably do it anyway) 5) When the game gets crazy and he gets louder and talks faster haha 6) when he reminds those of us who got the game when it came out (on CD mind you) that we are post youth every time the map comes up. 7) FUISIOOOOOONNNNNN COOOOOORREE (although it's probably for liberator range most times.) Sometimes applies to fleet beacon. Should start doing it for greater spire because as we all know, winter is 1/3 zerg himself.
actions all over the map, yet somehow i think winter still did a great job focusing on all the right places. In game 1, when clem first got hit at 22:27 with the bane mines and winter said it was a barn-door locking-situation, because it seemed instantaneously reactive and almost mindless, like it was overly-safe and borderline useless, like he "wasted" a scan. That made it hilarious to see the split hits at 25:57 - 26:10, because raynor predicted that clem would ADAPT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME to avoid that "wasted" post-hit scan because of the earlier one, only this time it wouldn't have been wasted, and the second hit landed. These guys are operating on a mental speed that's just on another level
i grew up on SC broodwar, used to watch replays all the time, when husky stoped i kinda stopped too. looks like i found my fav sc2 caster. keep up the good work, its great to see the game and how competive it is now.
Thanks for the commentary as always, Winter. The 2 players with the most APM in the galaxy is exhausting to cast let alone play. It's like they both have stim cells in their veins.
Oh reynor is a player at my own heart with those games… a massive Muta/ling/bane composition straight out of SC1 with some bane support and a sealing ultra play is peak Zerg gameplay for me it’s my favorite style to play, then a sneaky all in ling/queen drop that caught Clem completely off guard for game 2 was icing on the cake… reynor is playing exactly how I got into StarCraft all those years ago and fell in love with the Zerg it’s such beautiful masterwork gameplay well played games
game 3 is just infuriating to watch. T loses 29 SCVs at 5:50! 29!! it's literally half of what he had! and T is still in the game, and has OK chances. T is the easy-mode race, by far the most forgiving and with the best tools. no Z or P can survive losing 29 workers so early. it's bonkers that this is considered "balanced".
Mules and medivacs are broken. Put a cap on the number of simultaneous mules and should medivacs really instantly pick up units? There is literally no counter for Zerg except an expensive paper mache bat creature and 800+ of APM. And it will still take some luck..
Hey man, I grew up playing WC then WC2, then SC.... by the time SC2 came out I had moved on. But after falling upon your videos, the commentary makes it worth watching. I enjoy watching SC2 games now, but only if you're commentating!
I have played SC2 off and on since its release. In the last few years it has been Winter that drags me back in. Just want to say Thank You for reminding me how bad I am at a game I love so much :)
00:05:28 - In Starcraft, early success with Mutas can be a game-changer, but maintaining that momentum is a costly and risky endeavor. 00:10:13 - Rainer's relentless aggression keeps him in control, but the game hangs in the balance as both players push their limits. 00:14:28 - Rainer's relentless muta and baneling attacks are wearing down Clem's defenses, turning the tide in a fierce battle. 00:19:08 - Rainer's relentless aggression is paying off, but Clem's resilience keeps the battle intense. 00:24:05 - Rainer's relentless aggression finally breaks Clem, securing game one with 780 APM and overwhelming muta-ling-bane tactics. 00:29:21 - Rainer's relentless multitasking and strategic plays shut down Clem's strengths, proving that perseverance and precision can grind down even the toughest opponents. 00:34:32 - Rainer's mind games and relentless pressure are paying off big time against CLM. 00:39:56 - Rainer's relentless strategy and quick thinking keep him ahead, even when it looks like he's on the back foot. 00:44:43 - Rainer's relentless strategy and upgrade advantage keep him in the game despite heavy losses. 00:49:45 - Rainer's relentless pressure keeps CLM on the ropes, but a critical misstep costs him the game. 00:54:39 - Even the best gamers face intense pressure and exhaustion, but it's their relentless drive and adaptability that keep them in the fight. 01:00:18 - Rainer's relentless roach strategy keeps the game alive against all odds! 01:05:42 - Epic comeback in the making: Rainer vs. Clen, tied up and heading into the final showdown! 01:10:56 - Glen finally turned his potential into consistent performance, making him a world champion contender. 01:15:23 - Rainer's relentless attacks cripple CLM's economy, but the battle rages on with both sides taking heavy losses. 01:20:38 - Intense back-and-forth battle with Marines and Mutas, but Rainer's relentless pressure might just turn the tide! 01:25:57 - Epic battle of strategy and endurance, but at what cost? 01:31:10 - Rainer's relentless strategy and sheer willpower lead him to a hard-fought victory, proving that persistence pays off even in the most intense battles. 01:36:22 - Rainer's relentless muta micro and aggressive expansions keep him ahead, while Clem fights back with precision, making every game a nail-biter. 01:41:35 - Rainer's relentless counterattacks are turning the tide just when it seemed like CLM had the upper hand. 01:46:10 - Epic battle of endurance: Rainer and CLM trading blows, with Rainer's relentless aggression pushing CLM to the brink, but CLM's resilience keeps him in the fight. 01:51:25 - The most epic Starcraft 2 battle ever, with relentless action and incredible comebacks!
6:21: Decent lead for Reynor, following those attacks. Maybe he can swing it into a v... 6:45 aaaand it's gone. 11:56: Oof. That one hits too close to home 😅 25:57: ROFL 48:12: Well... that was a atrocious. Should have left one burrowed. 50:00: First game Ghosts come into play is the first Terran win. Imagine that. 1:00:05: This was gratifying to watch xD 1:19:20: That was cute xD 1:22:04: Proof God loves gamers. 1:50:20: This went from a good surround and raid into a massive overreach and disaster. Reynor's refusal to split and flank cost him heavily in the last 2 games. Great games though!
"Reynor's refusal to split" I don t think it was a "refusal", both player were very tired that last game (Clem was even almost sleep on his keyboard while waiting for the 1st game to start)
That's the Reynor I was waiting for. Thanks god he is lazy with his tech units. If he was to use all his tech, like Serral, even Clem would struggle against him.
No apologies for the clickbait. I had to be clear that this is somehow EVEN BETTER than the match these two played at the world cup. The final game raises the bar so high that I debated splitting it into it's own video, but that would cheapen the 90 minutes of insane 1000+ APM games leading into the final battle.
No worries! Your casts are always first class entertaining!
Vis-a-vis the player names, i m almost sure you are aware that there is a song called "Fear of the Dark" by the Band Iron Maiden. I wanted to mention it, just in case - since it fits so well with the shrine to dark and all that. :D
Stop the cap😂
I'm so excited 🤤
so who won this series after all?
Spot on. Best games in a while!
You treated this game as it deserved: like it was the last game you’d ever cast.
Thank you for everything over the years.
you say it so ominously, like somethings about to happen to winter lmao
@mr_mam did he crack a joke about the Clintons!?!?!?!
You are not authorized to see the content in my games
I've said it before, but I love your reliability, Winter! Each day, I open UA-cam, hoping to find a new cast, and it's always there. You're like that one friend who always answers when you call. Cheers!
Best comment I have ever read (by far)
Only SC2 can you have a BEST GAME OF ALL TIME every two weeks and have it not be clickbait
petition to have winter compile a soundboard full of audio clips like "2-2 is starting" and cast an entire match using solely the soundboard
Yes please. Seconded. And throwing out the request for a Winter compilation of Winter-isms. I'd watch an hour and a half of just snippets of Winter telling stories. And talking about player names. 11/10, favourite commentator ever.
Dumb idea.
Must include Sharon and Susan or we riot!
@@Stardash81 Hahahahaha excellent contribution
Yes, but... at what cost?
As an old man with a now thermodynamically efficient brain who has loved playing zergling muta since the first seasons of SC1, that first game was immensely satisfying
especially that double bane mine as finishing blow. not that it would matter as he was winning hard already.
SC2 Marine, Mine, Medic should normally wreck the hell out of Muta/ling. Sorry. Even the highly nerfed widow mines can one-shot an entire page of Zerglings or even one-shot one mutalisk and severely damage the rest of the entire flock of mutas if they clump too much.
Mutalisks are AWFUL in SC1. Their average DPS is about 1/3rd of a marine which costs 4 times less than the mutalisk in total, and Marine/medic flat out destroys Muta/ling so badly that there is never a reason to make Mutalisks vs Terran in SC1 vanilla nor broodwar. Instead, the Zerg should go ling/lurker/queen/defiler to win.
I used to be a Code S Broodwar player as every race, so I know what I'm talking about. Zerg players who don't use Queens in Broodwar or SC1 Vanilla are IDIOTS.
@@WadeSmith-oe5xd my man the strat won
The only way you will EVER beat a real Code S Terran in Broodwar as Zerg is if you make at least 1 Queen per Tank or Goliath your opponent makes. If you don't make at least 2 Queens, it is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE to stop the fastest two tank push when supported by marines and medics....it will run right over your ling/muta army and contain you to 2 bases and then you're stuck as a 2 base Zerg vs a 3 or 4 base Terran and you just auto-lose the game. I know, because I used to play wth "4You" who was one of the best Korean pros to ever play the game,a nd without 2 Queens you CANNOT stop his 2 tanks push....not even close to stop it. I tried everything for a month before I realized Queens was the ONLY way to stop a 2 tanks push Terran in BW.
Mutalisks are even worse against Protoss, because X number of Corsairs beats about twice it's value in Mutalisks, since they splash up to 8 targets per shot.
Mutalisks are not even good against another Zerg, because if you stack your mutas to "circle strafe micro" you will get hit by a Queen Ensnare or defiler Plague and lose your entire air army. That's why most Code S go hydralisk in all 3 ZvsX matchups in SC1 and Broodwar. Hydralisk and Lurker are two of the most cost-effective units in Broodwar, especially the lurkers when supported by Defilers and Queens.
@@comradesillyotter1537 Bomber doesn't play anymore. He quit because he got bored with winning.
ProTech doesn't play 1vs1 anymore. He quit 1vs1 because it is quote, "Too easy to beat GMs at 1vs1."
Even though Winter has used a title like this a number of times before, somehow I trust that this isn't clickbait.
Pretty sure I won't be disappointed.
Lost count the number of times I've been baited in.... But you get to the end and you're like.... you know what... that wasn't bait.
@@tomtech1537 Exactly. :)
Baited or not "(So far)"
The matches are usually pretty good regardless. Doesn't matter if the vid title is super hyped or simply "[Player Name] vs. [Player Name]" I'm gonna watch either way.
@@vigorouslethargy Same. Well said. But it is still fun to discuss silly clickbait-vs-non-clickbait titles.
This is a game of Star Craft 2.
1:48:20 - this war fought by ghosts and infestors, the next by marines and queens, great job mate, I was also here when you flubbed that same joke a couple months ago and it just makes a fan proud to see you nail it on this, the most epic of games.
Clem and Reynor are actually just a few months apart in age. April 2002 and July 2002.
Damn, that makes me feel weird. I started playing StarCraft seriously before either of them were alive...
Terran, the only race that can half the workers for 10 minutes.
only race that can lose 20+ workers and bounce back like nothing happened...
pretty sure that first game was the best game of SC2 i've seen . . . .and there are 5 more?
Exactly my thoughts lol
same !
Just got finished with Game 1. I need to take a breather before game 2-5
I love Winters Commentary:
"He needs to keep it in the back of his mind... maybe even at the front of his mind... idk how it works"
"How many times do we have to teach you this lesson... YOUNG man"
"the Mutas have gone extinct!"
man im wheezing i cannot
All I need is 800 apm and I can counter medivac drops with mutas.
the moment the evacs took all bio in the exact timining when 7 window mines hits everything underneath made it greatest moment so fat in sc2 for me
Didn’t see that. Timestamp?
1:51:05
Thanks
No clickbait just masters of their craft ( clem , reynor and u of course) Thanks for the devotion ! my day became a little bit better
I'm too far in to care what's click bait at this point. LET'S FUCKING GO!!
WHOOH WINTER🎉
Feels like both ghosts and widow mines need to cost 1 more supply each. Clem literally has 20+ mines scattered around the map, a 10ghost hit team, 15medivacs and random tanks around and a good 60scvs but he can still field a massive marine marauder army. Something doesn't add up with Terran supply numbers.
They get to cut workers and still outmine their opponents with fewer bases in the late too. It's surprising terran hasn't been crushing it harder for longer honestly.
yup, roach and ghost, same supply. mules no supply.
ghost shouldnt be able to snipe every unit and instakill every non-armored, also none biologicals, only 40dmg to armored units.
snipe huge cooldown but no energy need. ghost=light unit, and cost 100m-150g, as the infestor and have only 80hp.
game 3, Clem loses half of his scvs (29!) pre-8 minutes. just fucking shrugs it off and wins anyway. no Z can lose 29 drones so early and come back. also, the widow mine abuse is insane. it costs so, so much more APM to avoid mines than to use them. they allow T to have amazing trades while macroing or looking elsewhere, while heavily punishing opponents for macroing or looking elsewhere.
it legitimately makes me question whether balancing around winrates is at all balanced. i cannot believe that winning as T takes as much skill as with P or Z. the disproportionate amount of T participants and TvT matches we get in every big tournament makes me wonder even more.
And you only need 60 scvs to match 90 drones since mules exist. Terran is definitely some bullshit.
@@kathorseesI just lost a PvT ladder game on where i killed all Terran SCV by the 4:08 mark, he just drops 4 miles and acted like he didn't lose any workers... Shows up like a minute later with 25 supply of stimmed bio and rolls over my gateway units.
Clem chasing the Mutas around his base as they ravage his bases and mineral lines triggers my ladder PTSD
The muta gameplay was beautiful
Will never get tired of watch the most professional sc2 games
Great series! Love it when there really isn't one person with a major lead because both players have been trading punches non stop while trying to sneak a dagger in each other's sides at the same time.
god damn this was amazing, it's crazy how good they both are, I keep having no idea how either is still alive every minute of these games, especially the last one
This matchup is just so, so broken.
In game 1 the fact that it took 27 minutes for Clem to finally not have a way back in illustrates it perfectly. That was one of the most thorough trouncings I've ever seen in SC2, and Terran gets to just keep going, waiting for a single mistake from Zerg to win the game for no reason.
It is true. Mules make it way too easy for Terran to stay in the game, even with much less bases and also castrate the real impact of harassment in later stages of the game.
Me and a friend always joke that matches vs Terrans are
"The terran lost only 30 scvs, this might not be sufficient damage"
"The Terran killed 4 drones/probes, we're now just watching a slow death animation"
Agreed 100%, zerg has to take huge risks and throw away hundreds of supply for low potential reward while terran has the privilege to throw low risk low supply high reward drops everywhere, because the intended counter to drops (mutas) is just too expensive in both gas and APM.
Units are supposed to have weaknesses. Most of terran's units are balanced and fun because they have weaknesses. Siege tank has a great design. Its inability to move when deployed is a legit weakness that can reasonably be exploited and countered. Tanks are potentially game-endingly powerful if the terran can find and set up a great defensive position, but it's not unwinnable. Makes for great games.
The marine's weakness is supposed to be that it's slow and relatively immobile. Medivacs make marines among the most mobile unit in the game, more mobile than zerglings in fact because zerglings don't fly. Imagine if zerg had a unit that synergized with its basic infantry so well that it completely removed the zergling's intended weakness (its low hp). Imagine cracklings with all their speed and dps but that are also infuriatingly hard to kill and you'll understand why I think medivacs are bullshit. Supported by medivacs, marines just do not have any weaknesses. They deal insane, game-ending damage, they're hard to kill, they're fast, and they fly. Insane that people can watch a terran drop a zerg to death and think it's "a good game" and not just a kid being bullied for 20 minutes with no recourse. It's not exciting, it's just frustrating and sad.
AND GHOSTS. Ghosts are the most overpowered unit in the game, period. No spellcaster should scale that well with numbers. You shouldn't be able to make 30 of your late game spellcaster and win. If half your army supply is in spellcasters, your army should be *less* powerful, not more. Remember when Infestors scaled really well because of infested terran spam? Yeah, they NERFED it, for good reason.
@@davehollis5816 This is dead-on. Z and P are actually fairly impressively balanced, I think with the exception of Disruptors needing a rework to make them more consistent.
On the other hand, the entire current design of Terran is a joke. To the point of them being overwhelmingly the most successful and powerful option at every level of play (outside of the top 0.0001% being split between zerg and terran.)
Marine-Medivac, Mules/Scans, Widow Mines, and Ghosts are each totally independently, game-breakingly overpowered.... But we're just used to it...? Like, nobody looks at the ladder winrates at ANY tier? OR watches the games?
@@vox5505 I do also think Mules, scans, and widow mines are potentially a bit overtuned. But to me they're not as bad as the things I whined about already.
It *is* kind of nuts that a terran can lose half his workers and survive. But it's not like mules are totally free. The mule/scan tradeoff is meaningful I think, and there *is* counterplay there.
Scans aren't *as* troublesome IMO until the very late game when you can afford to have 9-12 orbitals, when it starts really feeling like map hacks. But that does cost a lot of money, so it's hard for me to call it IMBA and feel like I'm being honest.
Widow Mines are definitely too cheap for what they can do. But I don't think they're THAT broken. Again, there is counterplay.
The reason I call out medivacs in particular is that there IS no counterplay to mass multidrops. You drop 8 or 16 marines, you can either win the game outright or do *some* damage and escape for free. You risk nothing, it takes very little micro compared to what the zerg has to do to defend, and you are guaranteed to do some damage, if not just win. As soon as the ling swarm finally approaches, you just instantly slurp back up into space and zoom away, consequence free.
There's nothing the zerg can do about this. It's either lose because the damage from mass drops unavoidably stacks up and puts you behind, or you lose because you sunk thousands of gas into a unit that can't fight, and your army is now too weak to handle pushes. It's got to be the most frustrating and unfair interaction imaginable for the zerg, but we're all supposed to think of it as "exciting" and "high octane" because balance discussion is so brutally stigmatized.
Thanks for the reply btw.
1:29:38 you are bringing something unique winter ! Thank you for the awesome cast as always
As an SC 1 player I've never understood how sc2 players build 1 anti air turret and say "yep, this is enough". And equally how no opponents realize this
Amazing games! S-class commentary. I wish I could like and subscribe several times.
It feels like every week you post "the best match I've ever seen", and yet you never lie lol!
SC2 is still the greatest game to watch for me. No game could possibly come close to a good TvZ in SC2.
I think that "French killing the Queen is a revolutionary strategy" maaay have passed by some people's radar, that was brilliant and silly 😄
*insert I got that reference meme here*
Yes. And then there was 1:42:54 "How many ghosts are left? Just one! And that's not enough. He wants to cancel that harder than Blizzard would.", which also may have gone unnoticed by some, though this is not one for the history buffs :)
this whole video is full of amazing Winter one liners tbh
dudes smart af.
OMG when clem won the last finals, i commented that his air superiority was key to his play, and the zerg needs (upgraded) mutas to take down the medivacs continuously. I just watched the G1, and i see Raynor bringing my idea to live. im extatic. SO MANY epic moves in this first game ! the baneling traps ! the grand strategy (see how he used the mutas so Clem had to retreat to his base) , and even a Serral-festor !
i will make a bookmark in my browser bar just so i can watch this again and again. quite like the finals of soccer world cup 98
I loved the baneling callback in the first game. Eats a bane hit and immediately scans after: "oh what a fool to look for them after they went off!" so he remembers not to scan on a bane hit: "oh what a fool he didn't check for more!"
man! I gotta say I love to see winter changing his voice and making up crazy fun dialogues as Susan ou Brenda (queens) talking to their imaginary counterparts! its max level entertainment
killing 30 workers at 5 minutes and still getting outpassed economically is wild
That game 6 was just madness, I agree that was one of the top sc2 games of all time, the speed and acuracy of both...
top favorite winter moments;
1) when brenda/susan/margret ect psionically channel their thoughts into winter and he "blacks out" showing us what they are saying.
2) when he calls YOUR mom (not my mom) Massive.
3) when he yells at Jimmy for anything.
4) when he tells us to like and sub and we might get another cast (even though he will probably do it anyway)
5) When the game gets crazy and he gets louder and talks faster haha
6) when he reminds those of us who got the game when it came out (on CD mind you) that we are post youth every time the map comes up.
7) FUISIOOOOOONNNNNN COOOOOORREE (although it's probably for liberator range most times.) Sometimes applies to fleet beacon. Should start doing it for greater spire because as we all know, winter is 1/3 zerg himself.
Make Spire Great again.
"We've Arriiiiiiiived!!!"
actions all over the map, yet somehow i think winter still did a great job focusing on all the right places. In game 1, when clem first got hit at 22:27 with the bane mines and winter said it was a barn-door locking-situation, because it seemed instantaneously reactive and almost mindless, like it was overly-safe and borderline useless, like he "wasted" a scan. That made it hilarious to see the split hits at 25:57 - 26:10, because raynor predicted that clem would ADAPT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME to avoid that "wasted" post-hit scan because of the earlier one, only this time it wouldn't have been wasted, and the second hit landed. These guys are operating on a mental speed that's just on another level
i grew up on SC broodwar, used to watch replays all the time, when husky stoped i kinda stopped too. looks like i found my fav sc2 caster. keep up the good work, its great to see the game and how competive it is now.
Amazing!!! The best of the best! ❤️ Thx! Very well done again Winter!
Thanks for the commentary as always, Winter. The 2 players with the most APM in the galaxy is exhausting to cast let alone play. It's like they both have stim cells in their veins.
"The SCVs are trying to repair the Orbital but it's still burning. Typical contractors." Man I love your humor.
Window mine , Ghost , Marine
Whiner
@@yunfanfan9452 The ghost need a big nerf. Also unlimited scans aka maphack is not good right now.
@@yunfanfan9452I don’t even play StarCraft lol , I’m just a observer
just a fungle and all of this dies :3
@@AntoineDubruque ghost counter it, cloack, more range more energy
As a Zerg player, those bane mine hits in game one improved my heart health.
Oh reynor is a player at my own heart with those games… a massive Muta/ling/bane composition straight out of SC1 with some bane support and a sealing ultra play is peak Zerg gameplay for me it’s my favorite style to play, then a sneaky all in ling/queen drop that caught Clem completely off guard for game 2 was icing on the cake… reynor is playing exactly how I got into StarCraft all those years ago and fell in love with the Zerg it’s such beautiful masterwork gameplay well played games
Both Clem and Reynor at another level. Remember watching them as they came up these games are nuts
THE FIRST game alone - BAM!
game 3 is just infuriating to watch. T loses 29 SCVs at 5:50! 29!! it's literally half of what he had! and T is still in the game, and has OK chances. T is the easy-mode race, by far the most forgiving and with the best tools. no Z or P can survive losing 29 workers so early. it's bonkers that this is considered "balanced".
Mules and medivacs are broken. Put a cap on the number of simultaneous mules and should medivacs really instantly pick up units? There is literally no counter for Zerg except an expensive paper mache bat creature and 800+ of APM. And it will still take some luck..
I enjoyed both the games and the commentary. Thank you, Winter.
I've played this game for so long and this was for sure the best series I've ever watched.
What an amazing series of games with an amazingh caster!
Winter looks like he needs a stiff drink and a nap after that series 😳 WOW Amazing, thank you 💜
Hey man, I grew up playing WC then WC2, then SC.... by the time SC2 came out I had moved on. But after falling upon your videos, the commentary makes it worth watching. I enjoy watching SC2 games now, but only if you're commentating!
Great commentary, great games!! Cheers mate, from Australia!!
Dude, I just want to say that your just really good at what you do. Thank you for your time
I have been watching winter for almost 10 years now
I smashed the like-button immediately!
I almost didn’t for that “Post Youth” comment but fealty cannot be fickle.
I have played SC2 off and on since its release. In the last few years it has been Winter that drags me back in. Just want to say Thank You for reminding me how bad I am at a game I love so much :)
Reynor finally making mutalingbane and banemines work at least somewhat. And you only need about 700 APM to do so too!
Muuuutaaaas are back! Hell yeah, been waiting for this! Entertainment level going certainly up. Btw, APM of Reyonor is just insane
15 attak 5 defense makes more sense for Clem, since he is still inconsistent, but with the ability to be unstoppable.
1:26:31 - "he's relying on queens! Brenda: What does that bring you? back to me." hahaha
Damn it winter. You got me again. Tell Brenda I say hi!
"A muta-risk" top-tier pun! 7:50
TBH I stop SC2 1y ago and I often comeback to see matchs only because of your passion, you'r a good man Mr. WINTER
Good cast Winter and very impressed by reynor !
great casts, thanks m8
You're one of the best commentators/streamers sc2 has ever seen brother been tuning in for years now!
What a Cast. Thanks for the sc2 content!
In Italian, "Porque no los dos?" is "Perché non entrambi?" ^^
"The Murder of Mutas"
I wonder how many got that. Nice one 😂
At least the crow enjoyers.
First match was fantastic! Looking forward to the rest!
nowdays i can't watch a game of sc2 without winter commentary
Just gotta say, your commentary is bar none hilarious, knowledgeable and keeps me locked in. Keep it up bro
I cracked up when Reynor supplied blocked himself with the overseer to draw widdow mine reveals!
WOW what a truly incredible set of games!
Clem vs Reynor is the best matchup in SC2. Their games are always balanced and played at an insane speed.
11:56 Ugh, f'ing bureaucracy man! I mean whose genius idea was it to put a Hatchery there?!?!
Excellent set of games, a great pleasure to watch
Fantastic 2h
Game 5 commentary is epic winter
Terrans like the rectangle maps, zergs like the square maps. Also don’t get me started on the 2010 tal-darim altar LE in 2010
00:05:28 - In Starcraft, early success with Mutas can be a game-changer, but maintaining that momentum is a costly and risky endeavor.
00:10:13 - Rainer's relentless aggression keeps him in control, but the game hangs in the balance as both players push their limits.
00:14:28 - Rainer's relentless muta and baneling attacks are wearing down Clem's defenses, turning the tide in a fierce battle.
00:19:08 - Rainer's relentless aggression is paying off, but Clem's resilience keeps the battle intense.
00:24:05 - Rainer's relentless aggression finally breaks Clem, securing game one with 780 APM and overwhelming muta-ling-bane tactics.
00:29:21 - Rainer's relentless multitasking and strategic plays shut down Clem's strengths, proving that perseverance and precision can grind down even the toughest opponents.
00:34:32 - Rainer's mind games and relentless pressure are paying off big time against CLM.
00:39:56 - Rainer's relentless strategy and quick thinking keep him ahead, even when it looks like he's on the back foot.
00:44:43 - Rainer's relentless strategy and upgrade advantage keep him in the game despite heavy losses.
00:49:45 - Rainer's relentless pressure keeps CLM on the ropes, but a critical misstep costs him the game.
00:54:39 - Even the best gamers face intense pressure and exhaustion, but it's their relentless drive and adaptability that keep them in the fight.
01:00:18 - Rainer's relentless roach strategy keeps the game alive against all odds!
01:05:42 - Epic comeback in the making: Rainer vs. Clen, tied up and heading into the final showdown!
01:10:56 - Glen finally turned his potential into consistent performance, making him a world champion contender.
01:15:23 - Rainer's relentless attacks cripple CLM's economy, but the battle rages on with both sides taking heavy losses.
01:20:38 - Intense back-and-forth battle with Marines and Mutas, but Rainer's relentless pressure might just turn the tide!
01:25:57 - Epic battle of strategy and endurance, but at what cost?
01:31:10 - Rainer's relentless strategy and sheer willpower lead him to a hard-fought victory, proving that persistence pays off even in the most intense battles.
01:36:22 - Rainer's relentless muta micro and aggressive expansions keep him ahead, while Clem fights back with precision, making every game a nail-biter.
01:41:35 - Rainer's relentless counterattacks are turning the tide just when it seemed like CLM had the upper hand.
01:46:10 - Epic battle of endurance: Rainer and CLM trading blows, with Rainer's relentless aggression pushing CLM to the brink, but CLM's resilience keeps him in the fight.
01:51:25 - The most epic Starcraft 2 battle ever, with relentless action and incredible comebacks!
I’d rather watch this than a full length movie bro. 🍿 This is true entertainment
Keep up the good work :)
Thank You
Om nom nom
Great match. As always, great commentary.
so good this is my 2nd watch through.
"Mutarisk" you got the best lines man xd
thanks. very cool moderation, very cool games. thanks once more.
They gave us a 45 minute game in 24 minutes. Incredibly dense action.
I enjoyed the action in both the casting and the games!
6:21: Decent lead for Reynor, following those attacks. Maybe he can swing it into a v... 6:45 aaaand it's gone.
11:56: Oof. That one hits too close to home 😅
25:57: ROFL
48:12: Well... that was a atrocious. Should have left one burrowed.
50:00: First game Ghosts come into play is the first Terran win. Imagine that.
1:00:05: This was gratifying to watch xD
1:19:20: That was cute xD
1:22:04: Proof God loves gamers.
1:50:20: This went from a good surround and raid into a massive overreach and disaster.
Reynor's refusal to split and flank cost him heavily in the last 2 games. Great games though!
"Reynor's refusal to split"
I don t think it was a "refusal", both player were very tired that last game (Clem was even almost sleep on his keyboard while waiting for the 1st game to start)
That's the Reynor I was waiting for. Thanks god he is lazy with his tech units. If he was to use all his tech, like Serral, even Clem would struggle against him.
Winter keeps me wanting to play Starcraft. Sometimes i watch a vid and i have to hop on
For a muta,ling bane all in vs basically mass marines to go 26 min is not possible without the amount of APM of these guys. A great watch though
What an insane first game I couldn't even fathom this
Day 42: Where is our Brenda T-Shirt Winter?
"Get off my CREEP!"
what do you call a group of marines? . . . . . A Clemp
Winter this is the 7th week in a row you've shown the best starcraft 2 in class
Glad to see winter dressed up for the occasion