Jordan Peterson - Integrated Aggression vs Cowardice Disguised as Morality
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- Опубліковано 1 січ 2018
- original source: • Lecture: Biblical Seri...
To really say "no" means "I will play for higher stakes than you will!".
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"You can’t truly call yourself “peaceful” unless you are capable of great violence...
If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful, you’re harmless."
Phil 556 yes well said
Why are professional hockey, basketball and especially football players generally & universally admired? They are 100% aggressive, but they carry out that aggression within a set of rules (similar to society’s laws), and the best do it while supporting their teammates (their fellow citizens), with a goal of victory (a successful outcome for society). So the best football players have fully integrated their capacity for violence into their personalities. Off the field it’s switch-off & a return to peaceful training, to be ready for the next competition!
How can I be capable of great violence
@@iyerzzzzz if you are asking that question you are one of the harmless.
@@phil5569 WOW that was very helpful , Thanks!
Props to the guy asking the question
Miiksn right?
hell yeah. big brain bois
Indeed!
His voice is so annoying for some reason
@@Tony00599 you sound like one of those people who have to make a negative point whenever they could just for the sake of doing that, i could be wrong though :)
"Only the strong can afford to be gentle.
The weak can only afford to be cruel."
This is a commentary on strength of will, and moral strength, not physical. strength.
indeed and it shows how truely strong alot of the ppl who look after us all are
I think it applies to both
I don’t believe this is exactly what he’s saying though, he’s saying only the strong can afford to be both cruel and gentle, their choice to be gentle is true morality, the weak have no choice but to be gentle because should they be cruel they’d be crushed by the strong
But sometimes I feel when the strong remain gentle they forget how to become cruel
Sashank Iyer
Christ is the perfect example of the perfect balance. He knew when to exhibit aggression and confront enemies and He knew when to show mercy and gentleness. The book of revelation shows Him coming back and being extremely aggressive towards his enemies “destroying those who destroy the earth.” But at the same time He comes a the ultimate liberator, then wiping away every tear from His people’s eyes, causing them to dwell safely, he gently takes care of the beaten down and broken peoples.
i felt this as a pre-teen. when struggling with "not fighting" i remember being told - "well, that means you're a good person" . .....that wasn't true. i was merely afraid of confrontation and being physically hurt. the predisposition still exists. now, however, i can mostly put my finger on it and make a choice.
i love this "moral vs cowardice" argument. it definitely shines a light.
This is just the sort of bullshit guys have to deal with and it follows you well into adulthood.
Hey thats got to be a tough feeling to have and a hard one to admit. Props to you being able to admit it and if you are trying to change that feeling. One thing that I hate to say really helped me with being able to fight and not to worry about what happens. I've been in a good number of fights but before this time I was in only 4 in was in Jr high one of my friends through a small rock at this low rider truck ( fucking dumbass ) and they pulled over I was with one other friend and my friend who threw the rock walked away don't know how they didn't see him and I was just looking at him like you mother fucker your going to make me deal with this shit didn't have to say a word he knew exactly what I was thinking and he knew I wouldn't rat him out and say no he did it it wasn't me. I was about 13 years old (in Jr high probably) 7-10 of these so called gangsters around 18-25 year olds get out they knock my friend out with one punch I guess and then I guess beat me pretty good ( I hate saying this because I don't lose fights after this one) I wouldn't go down for whatever reason so witnesses said I was against a 4 foot wall that are on bridges so I was getting punched in the face multiple times but probably being held up by the wall I don't know I don't remember any of it until about 15 minutes later when my 2 friends were walking me home I was a bloody mess then about 15 minutes later then next thing I remember is being in my bed with my dad standing over me asking who did this and my friends telling him (then him going looking for them a different story)
Didn't have a broken nose even though I sure as hell got hit in it my lip was split past my nose ( my front tooth used to have a chip in it ) so anytime I'd get punched in the month I'd get my lip cut because of my tooth. I started carrying a month piece with me after this. I thought I was going to look like the elephant man it was narly looking before and even with the stitches in. It healed up pretty good best I could hoped for. The next day after I took that jumping from those pussy gangsters I really wasn't sore the next day at all. Had a mouth full of stitches and a swollen face but other than that I was fine. I took the best that they had and worst that they could give ( I know they could have killed me and shit like that and when I say the worst they could give) that they kept punching me until they thought I'd had enough or got scared of getting in trouble or one of them said hey this is fucked up were men and he's a kid. Seriously doubt the last one ha ha. I took a pretty good beating and it didn't hurt at all. After that I was never scared of getting into a fight because it doesn't hurt fights like that hopefully don't happen to many times in your life so I thought I'm not going to get beat like that again which didn't even hurt to begin with so a one on one fight. I doesn't hurt. You might be sore but you get sore from exercising. Don't let it be something that scares you. I know its easier said than done. Its the truth though and if you had a harder life than some and if you know what real pain is the pain of having a hard life. Then this kind of pain from fighting is absolutely nothing and if you hadn't had a hard life. You can think worst case scenario broken nose can get set and heal up fine cuts and bruises on a face that get seriously beat heal up and look completely fine and are normal again in a week or 2 so nothing permanent going to happen except of losing your fear that's holding you back. Remind yourself it doesn't hurt because it doesn't. The pain of not doing what's right when you have a chance is a lot worse pain then any physical pain.
Yeah i understand. But what should the small guys do if they will lose the fight anyway? Its so easy to call someone a coward when they have no option but to avoid conflict because they will get beaten up if they confront. Its like calling the biggest guy the bravest. Ofc he is the bravest just because he knows he will not lose any fight. This is such a stupid idea to judge physically weak guys of being cowards when you know they would lose the fight. What are they supposed to do, fight over and over to get beaten up harder and harder every time? It doesnt help.
@@bosshoggjdkk5211 i know how it feels. Being afraid and regretting for not standing up hurts more than getting beaten up. But ure saying as if fighting and standing up resloves the problem. If u fight with ur bully and lose he will be bullying you even harder every time he sees you because you lost a fight. How is that better than cowarding away? I have tried both options in high school when i was bullied and neither feels better. You only feel better about yourself if you win the fight or the bully stops bullying you after the fight, which doesnt happen often. So why is it still okay to shame and call guys cowards if no matter what they do they will still continue to get bullied and beaten if they dont win the fight? Isnt it better to avoid the fight if u know you wont win and will just get beaten for nothing?
@@NomadUrpagi My brother confronted someone in a bar once because they were picking on someone. That guy walked away.
The bartender knew my brother and told him he understood what he'd done but that it was stupid.
He'd seen bar fights, it was a dive, and he'd seen guys walk out afraid ...but some of those guys walked out and came back.
They came back with a gun...bartender told my brother, guns are equilizers.
"If you just stop doing really stupid things your life improves a lot" Ha!
Damn straight :O
Try telling the controller idiots 😊
Right? Funny when you realise how simple it all really is.
Groundbreaking! (or controversial?)
It's a challenge some days, ngl :)
Can I just say, I think this guy asked his question well - he was precise about the ideas that he was considering but he didn’t go on forever trying to pin them down, like some do. He was being careful about how he verbalised his dilemma and that’s what JP stands for anyway. All of you prompting him to get to the point - if you had a chance to ask dr Peterson one question, you’d be careful to make sure he got exactly what you meant - and it wouldn’t be stupid of you to do so, because imagine the pain if you’ve missed the chance to hear the answer 😫
Agree
Well said woman. Youre quite smart for a woman.
Mayke Dąbek Indeed. I’m glad that he was able to get the most out of it
I clicked your pic to check it out. Suddenly I'm down a rabbit hole of song based workout vids.
Well, it was worth it.
I also agree w/you here and am impressed that you, as a woman will watch Jordan Peterson.
Mayke Dąbek yes, you may say.
I've often noticed the people who decline to speak up when they should. They go under the radar. They're just being cowardly but then they get rewarded for keeping their cool or being the diplomatic one or the one that's easy to get along with. But really they're just leaving the hard work to everyone else. Meanwhile, it's the one person in the group that speaks up and fights a little for what's right that gets associated with the unpleasantness of the situation. They have to do the dirty work for the "peaceful" ones.
What is your definition of reward? Maybe the person confronting without Beeing able to be cruel is also a coward.
~Yep, they pass the karmic buck~
That makes me feel better for always speaking up in class in high school and getting unpleasant responses
I think this is my new favourite piece of philosphy from a youtube comment
"keeping your cool" isn't doing nothing. It's being able to make rational decisions in a highly emotional situation.
Dr. Peterson's response reminds me of an article I read on the Art Of Manliness about being a Gentleman- " You've got to be a man, before you can be a Gentleman". Or, to quote Teddy Roosevelt, " ...Unless we keep the barbarian virtues, gaining the civilized ones will be of little avail.”
Wonderful quotes!
The whole point of being a gentleman is that you COULD be really dangerous, but you CHOOSE to be gallant and well-mannered. A gentleman is half warrior, half priest - which is why the calling card of a gentleman is always a good education and some kind of weapon (sword or cane).
Here's one more,
"Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
(West African proverb)
@@anshul_himself what? I thought that was Teddy Roosevelt's phrase
Jean Gentry gentleman= takes it up the ass
Agressive= will go to prison not to get it up the ass
The wisest thing I've learned in my experience so far is that nothing in life is ever as complicated as the thoughts you have about it.
Yep
Why do we sometimes think it's gonna be easier to do until we actually do it?
@@eskay3442 Because when it's time to do it, we are not the person that we imagine we would be while thinking about it.
damn i love the way you put it into words
@@Niko-ms5op that’s not true, it’s because our conscious or thinking side is completely different from our unconscious or acting side
No one knows the limits of Self-Improvement.
True, but we are only here for a short time. Changing can work for you or against you in my opinion. If you are in the entertainment industry, then if may suit you well to be out-going and out-spoken. If you're the President of a conservative country, then you would want to come across as a strong professional. In the latter case, I wouldn't think changing your personality to a loose and out-going personality would be a good idea, as people would take notice and could think you're a phony or have some sort of split personality.
@@HumbledByGreatness Perhaps the phenomenon you are describing here is blind self-improvement. This might be a very prevalent sort, but what usually happens in those scenarios is that the person acknowledges that they went the wrong way, to then learn from it, and grow into the direction that is their destiny.
HumbledByGreatness I think the goal of self improvement should be to adapt to your environment in the manner that makes you the most successful, rather than “blind” self improvement, as someone else said
boya boya
Death
This guy has been an important part of my self discovery. Earlier this year I got dumped, and the anger and resentment I felt after was overwhelming and I did, said and thought things I wasn't aware I was capable of. But it felt so damn good. I've generally been a super agreeable person, worked through it with therapy (so nice to see someone outside a therapy room talk about this), but the 'burning of the bridges' that my breakup symbolized really accelerated my personal growth. Stop being so damn afraid of being your true self. We're all just human and life sucks, but if we hide being morality and pretend we're something that we're not, nobody wins.
losing a women is like getting your car stolen. You might feel possessive of women but remember they are not your possession and can not force love.
@@sadhu7191 I am a woman myself and I definitely don't feel that I have any ownership of anyone. Nor do I have the capability of hurting anyone physically.
My point was that everyone has their dark side, and my breakup helped me get in touch with if for the first time in my life.
I agree with all of that except for one part: "stop being so damn afraid of being your true self." I used to be afraid of being ANYTHING OTHER than my true self. This mindset neglected the possibility of me actively changing my 'true self' to become something better. I believe we can change our 'true selves,' and that our 'true selves' should not be considered as all-encompassing guidelines to which our every action must submit to.
Now, I don't think you should let fear dissuade you from doing something you believe is important, but the concept of an unchanging 'true self' restricted my freedom.
@@dtjackson1647 Very interesting point of view. I like your thinking a lot. Didn't think about it this way, but now that you have put it into words, I think this is a good way of thinking
Going through the exact same process you described, right now.
So cowardice is to refuse to keep improving yourself by saying you're good enough as you are.
"By denying the worst, you preclude the possibility of the best". Probably my new favourite JP quote.
"All the gods, all the heavens, all the hells are within you"
Wrong, and perverted theology.
You can be holy and dedicated to One alone. If you decide for more, it will breed contempt in your heart for the Father God who created you.
The word 'hate', and the word for 'half' in Greek is the same word in the Holy Scriptures.'
When a heart is split in to multiple directions, there begins a form of hate in that heart for the one true God. Only through the purification which comes from the saving grace of God in Christ does the heart become Holy and complete to "love the Lord your God with all your heart, your soul, your mind and all your strength".
Choose this day who you will serve. But no man can serve two masters.
Nicholas K doesn’t mean you serve two masters dude. The quote means the capacity is within you and you are endowed with the faculties with which you can actually “choose this day whom ye will serve.” Google the four elements of freedom and you’ll get the logic. Or better yet, rewatch this video.
@@TheKritter91 ...understand your point but I think this video explains really well the fact that we all wrestle with the old nature
...even Paul wrestled..
@@TheKritter91 One does not have to serve any masters. Unless of course, you choose to.
Wow this is so spot on for my own shadow work. Sexuality and aggression have been the two biggest hurdles for me. I've uncovered a lot of the sexual part and now I'm reaching the aggressive beast inside me which seems inherently tied into my sexual passivity as well. I never realized how repressed I was emotionally until I did the work.
😂
I think you met your sexual beast when u begged kristoffe for sex and told him not to say anything ..& even got the ging square bush out for show 😂😂😂
The definition of a good and morally righteous person is someone that performs a benevolent deed without telling the world about it.
What is wrong with telling people you did something good? The thing is done, bragging about it doesn't make it less valuable.
Jurgen Rembrandt well then u could ask if the deed was done for the intention of making them self look good to people, and not for the deed itself. Ends justify the means and so forth. Like you tubers videotaping them self giving money to the homeless
Which then ud ask, is that person moral, maybe moral is much more then acts without any selfish intentions. Maybe it's fine to think of oneself when helping others.
I disagree. Telling other people that you have donated money to a charity could actually motivate them to do the same.
Part of it, not all of it, IMO. The concept that you SHOULD NEVER broadcast or showcase a good deed under any circumstances is equally egotistic to me. If you mean, however, doing something good EVEN if there is nobody to see it, then yes. But it's still part of it, I think.
"You want to be continually stepping away from your previous self" Love it. Jordan always has a way of articulating my most conflicting values & attachments
I thank you uploader for linking the whole lecture AND for setting it to this timestamp. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. Great job, everybody should do it like this.
From this i have gained insight, that mediating between order and chaos is where you want to be. Evaluating and challenging your current situation in order to bring about change. Life is exciting if challenges are met
This is one of the best clips I've seen so far.
Yes!!!!
Absolute genius. What an amazing professor, many blessing his way
You are afraid of you own nature, so you have to express it and then learn to integrate it as a righteous part of your being
You should be able to do things that you are afraid of doing and burn the things that get in your way to embrace that side of yourself which is nothing to be ashamed of, but you do it for righteous goals, because if you are afraid of who you are can't accept and dominate it
A good strategy is to go against your fears, which are something internal more tha external especially when you think it can actually benefit you
It's like another person inside of you, completly irational and you have to make peace with it, accept it, dominate it and make it follow you
So, if you are afraid of what you are capable of, because you know how cruel can you be, are you a coward of being afraid of yourself? Or are you a step ahead from those that disguise cowardice as morality?
@@kenetmendoza2157 Yes to both.
Yes treat yourself as you would treat a good friend. With the same love, compassion and kindness
I’m afraid to socialize and generally be in public and so I think I have social anxiety and the fear of being judged. So…do I need to put myself out there and work on not being afraid so I can integrate myself better? How is this my bad side and what about myself am I afraid of? I’m not sure I’m understanding this right.
Almost made me cry. Honestly - Jordan Peterson best thing that has happend to me in the last view years. Really greatful and I don't say that lightly/don't say a lot of that. Have to correct myself. Did make me cry. Thank you so much for this xxxx
(View) good 1
You cried? What are you, a woman?
Crazy good lecture. So helpful for everday life. Thank you, Jordan for helping me.
Harmless and moral are really not the same thing!
And the way people usually learn to decouple these kinds of ideas from one another is through honest living. One experience or another pokes a sharp hole in a glazed-over rough truth, and then you start wondering and start to see that they're two separate things (like in this case)
I can relate to JP's answer. Aged 11 when I went to secondary school I was quite timid, but playing rugby toughened me up and I gained a lot of confidence.
Thnx again JP!
Hope u ad yours are well
What a great question. I've been trying to work these two out for myself. A longer discussion would be nice
A shorter answer (which I thought of immediately - and then from listening realized how much it would have left out - [so props to Peterson]) is this: Timing is everything.
That guy who posed the q is my friend! if you're interested, he's got a UA-cam channel! for some of his own thoughts and they're quite unique videos imo, though he hasn't posted in some time. He will be back I hope :) search for "Dream Radio".
That last answer was one of the best things I’ve ever listened to. Made me really rethink a lot of things. Hit home in a lot of ways. Profound (for me at least).
What eloquent articulation and masterful usage of the English language Dr. Peterson has.
5:32 Love this bit. Got myself covered in Don Juanism around 8 years ago. Discovered after 6 years it was the wrong ladder to climb. The recoil tended to go towards celibacy. I'm happy I found the balance. Thanks for the vid.
Incredibly well spoken 💙
Dear god this video was exactly what i needed. Thanks alot for that!!!!!!
Great pitch, incredible swing hitting that right outa the park. Homerun! 👏
In the same way, I think there has to be acknowledgement of weaknesses and vulnerabilities. You choose strength over weaknesses, but in certain situations that "weakness" you speak of can form something else through some sort of acknowledgement, conversion, tweaking or transformation. It's humility. Empathy. We need knowledge of these things. We need to keep tabs
Oh man thank you my internet father
I was wondering whether my aggressive boxing is vice and immoral, and if I should burn and try to get rid of it. But if I generously integrate it, it will preserve me with even more energy and virtue than before.
It's not about being a calm boxer, but a boxer who could be aggressive if he wants to, and therefore uses both:the energy of aggression and the collectedness of a disciplined one.
PS: If you are interested in this dead wood metaphor, read Marcus Aurelius Meditations.
Great question ! And answer
Integrating the shadow....sounds alot like "he took the sins of the world unto himself".....
I think that's literally it!
Jesus died to satisfy the judgement of the father and to give us new life, dispersing his own spirit upon the earth to those who believe, and are thereby saved by the power of god through faith
Sounds more to me like: "Stop denying you're capable of evil and start incorporating it in non-harmful ways before it suddenly jumps you and takes control."
Wonderful explanation!! Spot on!
Grear question, great answer. So much precision in language!
Great question, I meant.
When 2 really bright people start having a conversation! This was a true delight to watch and listen to.
Search 'Dream Radio' channel, you won't be disappointed ;)
@@neestovekin8251 Actually I got a playing error and then I made a puzzle on that site and was left with one piece that didn't fit 😂
Beautiful question. Beautiful answer.
Jesus...this is so brilliant and valuable. The integration of the Pinocchio story as an explanation of one's inability to manifest what is necessary bc of one's rigidity, and resistance to transformation, was next level
“What’s it like to burn away all the bad, the unnecessary, and the unwanted.. and to only let in the good, the necessary, and the wanted.. what will man become?” -Filiberto Rivera
loved this!!
that thing about pride is awesome
The question that was asked was in regard to the contradiction between moral atonement (burning of dead wood) and the notion of one's future identity rediscovering the past self that they had left behind in their decision to narrow themselves and grow in a specific realm in order to eliminate "endless potential"- the opposition to atonement. Even after Peterson's response, I feel like the question still stands- What is there to go back to once the "wood has been burned"
Balance my chaos and my order. Thats a neat spin to things
This is a great video
Very good question
You know what I wanted to ask Jordan Peterson? If he thinks the Epic of Gilgamesh is a successful hero story or not. He said before that the Oedipus story is that of a failed hero. But what about Gilgamesh? Gilgamesh failed on his mission to attain immortality, but immorality was never his destiny to begin with. He did, however, fulfill his destiny about bringing the knowledge about the days before the flood. But, Oedipus also fulfilled his prophecy and that's what made his journey a failure.
Donald Joestar Trump being quoted historically is a form of immortality. And prophecies never turn out quite how the participants expect.
Donald Joestar Trump I think that Jordan would say the pursuit of the ideal is what is important, therefore Gilgamesh is successful in that respect.
if your goal is to be fail completely, when you do so you have succeeded.
The beholder of wisdom!
Outstanding.
Love this one!
The pride thing is so spot on! Continually step away from yourself and become the process that mediates between chaos and order.
Excellent
He is like a king, the ultimate teacher and ideal of us simple muggles
This is the best clip of JP I’ve come across! I’m right at the cusp where I’m finally willing after 45 years to identify with the process that mediates chaos into order and release the pride
You can see this when injustice happens in public. Nobody wants to intervene and everyone plays it off as morality. But its just weakness and all know that.
Wisdom on its finest.
Best last 30 seconds in all youtube
Reminds me of the Robert Blys work, Iron John and the integration of the wild man.
Do you know the Sophia Cycles channel? She has some interesting work/ videos, a lot of it based on Robert Bly.
@@neestovekin8251 Love it thanks!!!
Smart question dude
Yes and he's "Dream Radio" here on UA-cam :)
Being aggressive is part of who I am. Sometimes, I go overboard (I feel it’s too much), but nonetheless, i realize it has given me benefits as well as the less than optimal results. That said, it is part of who I am, and I feel the good part of me is working to keep that in check and using it for a beneficial outcome. I love this speech. Not doing/being something isn’t a virtue, taking it and using it for good is good. Something that comes from non-action isn’t virtuous, it’s a circumstance. Action for good is virtuous!
Disguised morality to conform to who you are not. I love this video!
This video completely blew my mind. Does anyone have a book recommendation for what he is describing? Possibly a title by Nietzsche?
This is just great
Absolutely amazing question and although I don’t think mr Peterson really answered his question it was nonetheless an absolutely fantastic answer and he was pretty close. Based on what he said I think the answer to the students question would be that you are not integrating your shadow with your ego/self image/present self, but rather you are integrating that with the you that mediates between order and chaos, the thing that transforms, which is the real you, not your present self image, you cannot get attached to the present version of you because as soon as you do you are closing the opportunity to transform into something better, so you always need to be willing to let that go, but at the same time you are still integrating your shadow because it is integrated with the part of you that’s permanent, the thing that transforms.
thanks
This Jordan Peterson is unstoppable
Bless this heavyweight champ of the world for asking such a golden question. Wow!
That question guy is my friend! Love him to death :) He's got a channel btw (though he hasn't posted in some time, but he will be back)! Search for "Metamodern Radio".
It is easily said but I struggle to make the hypothetical in my life into a reality. It overwhelms me to want to achieve a better version of me. It affects my personal life as well as my work life. I dpnt stop though. I look forward to the end result even if the current me must die to achieve it. Life is so hard
Already seen this but yeah it’s good to point out rn
What a brilliant question
This man has all the answears, I definitely love his videos they are so smart and wise, hope one day to meet him
4 decades of studying human psychology both historically and in a postmodern setting will do that for ya :) Peterson the GOAT
@maggie k what wtf? If she looks hot in a pic and i like it i express it. Nothing creepy about it.
@Vampiresoap u would make a terrible psychologist. Far leftist? I am far centrist.
One day at work I voluntarily approached chaos, where instead of choosing to be prepared to have the right change in my apron I kept selling paper so I ended up pretty much earning five times my pay before the first game (BINGO) even started; I would've been able to stay and play
"Myth is meant to reconcile inherent contradictions in reality." Wow. Wow. 0_o Of course, it is about that. Wow.
Mute the video and it looks like my man's spitting bars
8:15 and onwards, less of "previous self" and more of Jesus, confront chaos and transform
“I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
At the end: “And so... yeah.” Haha
The answer is you don’t burn off parts of yourself but you burn off things that get in the way of integrating those parts of yourself to become whole.
Although my problem with the answer to the question is...the question was broad and general but JP answered it for one instance (morality) but didn’t cover other aspects that I would be interested in such as motivation, like burning off parts of yourself that doesn’t wanna do shit.
The definition of a genuinely moral person..
"You should be able to do the things you wouldn't do".
If you are proud, you won't continually step away from your previous self.
What a great guy
When you listen to the stories of the gulag and things such as the inquisition it is unbelievably difficult to realize you have the possibility to become that. I may be trying to eat the elephant in one bite so to speak, but that extreme torturous violence seems to be my mental block for integration. I try to put my self in the shoes of a person that could do something like that, and whether it is my pride or super ego, I just cannot seem to find a situation in which I could. I do believe Dr. Peterson to be correct in following the works of Jungian shadow theory, but on a personal level it seems incredibly difficult if not impossible to achieve integration and realization of something so evil.
If anyone has any tips of exploring the shadow on a deeper level it would be greatly appreciated. I am an extremely agreeable person, and I realize I would be far better off if I could integrate some aggression to improve my ability to resist doing something wrong in cowardice, and have a better chance at standing up for my beliefs in the face of malevolent evil.
Have you never done something bad? Something you hate yourself for?
The insight of the shadow, I believe, doesn't only come through aggression. You can look at any of your vices and follow them through to the shadow, although like Peterson says in the video, aggression and sexuality are the two hardest elements of the shadow to integrate.
That is a pretty good explanation in those terms it does make sense. I guess I have to come at it assuming I would have some grounds for doing so, at least in my mind. You are right. I would never do something I wouldn't feel was justified that doesn't make sense, and neither does anyone else.
Wilky _ You are willing to take a look at yourself, and that takes some kind of courage.
To help picture yourself doing something horribly brutal, imagine yourself in a weakened and compromised position. Maybe you haven't eaten, or you're injured. You witnessed 3 friends killed earlier that day. etc.
I know that if I was desperate enough, I could do some awful things.
Well, good luck! ..?
Think of it this way. Imagine there is someone coming to do those evil things to you. Are you going to let it happen? What do you do when it is either you or the other guy?
I don't think I am arguing I have no capacity for violence, I most certainly do, especially in defense. But on that horrendous of a scale it is quite a challenge to imagine doing something that evil.
Trouble is I’m smart enough to sort of understand this stuff and to realise that there is a lot of substance here, but I can’t quite grasp it enough to understand quite how to apply any of it.
so how do you do that? Just do what you think you need to when time allows it? No matter others thoughts, personal interests, etc.
yes
The coward will not transform. They have not a desire strong enough to break free into independence. The easy road is their lot and the coward will find any excuse to remain dependant upon others to fulfill all of their needs; basic, emotional, psychological, mental, etc. The coward is well versed at lying in order to protect their desire to use others for their own gain. They will seek out their own comfort over yours everytime. They are self-centered selfish people. Their wounds from their abusive mothers are what hold them willfully hostage to their cowardice.
You're describing just one type of coward. There are others. Why do you assume cowards are victims specifically of MOTHERS?
Edward Morris...the ones i have encountered all have a common theme of having NPD and/or BPD mothers. My ascertation is not meant to be the know all end all. It is something that I have personally witnessed throughout my life as a common denominator though.
Gordon Martin **DEAD!**
Gordon Martin...funny funny. I wasnt referring to an ex-husband. Some people make jokes to cope.
What's your backround in psychology ?
Jordan Peterson is the love I never had
Eww.
Absolutely great and so very true. Cowardice disguised as morality!
This is why I loved the old Ghost in the shell anime, it tackled this theme.
My little sister used to frame me for her childhood crimes, and she even made shit up sometimes just to get me in trouble. But I learned at the same age that some people are easy marks; I could say “Hey, remember [x]?” to certain people, with [x] being a fictitious event or person, and the easy marks would either A) pretend they remembered, or B) invent memories from my suggestions, and go along with what I said.
It led to my childhood fear of false imprisonment (surprise, I grew up on a farm with a father who literally described me as his slave). I made it a goal to become as honest as possible, and to seek out those who could teach me insight, logic, and discernment. Have I been successful? Well... Mostly? It’s still easy to fib, especially to liars. And I think my fiction writing is entertaining. But I try to live my life like I’m on jury duty.
Dammit, life is just less stressful when you tell the truth. And the more honest you are, the easier it is to see through the bullshit most people exude. Liars recognize only liars; they often believe that everyone is dishonest, and some are just better at it (game recognize game). But honesty recognizes both honesty and lies.
I hope this helps somebody take their blinders off. Liars will go along with similar liars and cover for each other, out of fear of the consequences if either of them blow the other’s cover. Do not fall in with them, do not be an easy mark, and do not become like them.
In another video Dr. Peterson stated that women are tired of harmless me they want violent men (not his word choice I do not recall his exact word choice) that are civilized. Same here with the hockey player - disciplined aggression. Disciplined aggression is a good thing. I would call it assertiveness; I learned there is aggression, assertive, and passive.
I highly reccomend reading 'No More Mr. Nice Guy' by Dr. Robert A Glover. JP brings a lot of good stuff that I remember reading from there.
This is such great medicine
Cowardice reveals to any hurt in disguise, morality is likely to conceal if not an altered ego itself.
Thinking about my grilled ribs is a higher order to reason.
Been needing to hear this. Practical advice that we can use to better ourselves. I'm gonna slay that fucking dragon
It took dude a long time to ask the question. In fact, I don't know that he actually asked the question, Jordan just picked up and addressed it from his intuition of what he thought the young man wanted to know.
Jungle Book is another Disney Classic with a similarly profound message.
I'll have to look it up
To me, the word “disciplined” is absolutely fundamental to any integration of any consciously unwanted trait.