Yes, but it kinda sucks not having the occasional alert for a free slot, reactor or even some bonus Nitain. Ik you can grind to the end for more, but it's a much greater commitment required now.
Nw doesn’t always give me incentives to play the game, but it does give me things to do when i’m at the top and just want to play the game, for those not like me it basically just rewards you playing the game most of the time and provides challenges to earn more faster, NW as it is now with the permanent weekly challenges is peak 👍
the fact that DE has given us so much content over the years without us having to spend a single dime, it comes to show how much they love and respect the community, I don't think any other game can achieve the loyalty warframe players have for the game
Warframe does have an exceptionally loyal community, and that's one of the things that makes it so unique. I feel like the community isn't just loyal to the game though, they care so much about keeping it welcoming and kind. Which is a rarity among gaming communities nowadays.
warframe don't need you pay for play, they know that if you play more, the more likely you pay for something, which is healthy for players, bc they spend for fun, not for power creep
This is absolutely correct. Havent paid for anything in the game, but after 3 years of enjoyment, I became a common customer ,buying their sales on steam and prime passes,as well as regal aya. And I'm absolutely satisfied with their stuff
I have spent nearly a thousand dollars on Warframe since I started playing (around 100 dollars every year) but it doesn’t feel like I’m paying for content, it feels like I’m supporting the game I love.
I’m literally such a cheap gamer now. Hopped on warframe and was spending more money than any other game just because of how they built the game. Like why not
@@Finallin Real quick considering the Heart of Deimos update came out whilst Glass Maker was going on meaning you had to kill INFESTED by hitting weak points... Weak point that are immune to AOE... Like the AOE from Voidrigs 4th... Making Voidrig near useless in its debut Content Update... ThReReS gLaSs ReSoNaNcE iN yOuR aReA!
I never even thought of Nightwave being a battle pass until you said it in the beginning of the video. I like the fact that not only is it free, but it has overflow points that are used to get very niche resources in the game
Nighwave replaced OG Warframes 'Alert System' because these were the main ways to 100% get Nitain Extract(still the rarest resource in the game) Plus the 2 Eclipse (Yes the actual phenomena) that have happened in my life, the devs have put at "Alert Mission" that rewarded us the augment mod 'Eclipse' which was unique for a warframe.
The legendary story of a guy, once bought 200 rerolls in a row to get a specific Kubrow color (back in the day you had to roll for them for platinum) Digital Extreme were shocked, went full 180, removing the rolling mechanic and refunded the guy all his money It’s a true showcase of good they are with the community, they did this on their own, no one complained, they just thought it wasn’t the best for us
They're an example of one of the few times a company understands how much monetization is "enough", rather than being greedy and trying to make as much profit as possible.
I missed that aspect of Nightwave. It was crazy how they weaved in a sort of mission progression and story into a battle pass (and it's all free!), but I completely understand why they stopped it. The cutscenes, scripted sequences and boss fight mechanics do take a lot of effort. I do hop that they would try to bring it back every once in a while.
I think they dropped it for the same reason they phased out timed events like Operations- because they created content that would be missed forever by any players who joined the game after the events had ended. Even I ended up missing some of those early operations when I took a hiatus from the game- I missed Slingstone and Gradivus Dilemma (and to this day, I've never been able to get my hands on a Brakk).
@ArcaneAzmadi yeah, they could just make the cutscenes reviewable. Brakk is still availible from doing invasions and getting hunted by gustrag 3. Much like when can still get the vitrica by doing the boss purchased from nightwave. It's not like they vaulted the obtainable content.
I also was not playing WF when the Series were in effect, so knowing that aspect was lost is saddening. However, the Nightwave is such a rewarding battlepass that is easily accessible to all players and so it continues to be, one of the best features ever added, it's just straight up free constant stuff.
The main idea for Nightwave was to give players some kind of a carrot to chase after. Humans have a thing for checklists, apparently. This was a big piece of feedback they got from newer players who has just completed Vor's Prize for example and didn't have a sherpa giving suggestions. And old vets who had done everything also were saying that there was nothing to go for in the game. So basically it was a way for DE to put in a Bounty system from the whole game. Every long term MMO player ever knows that feeling or moment where you log into a game, look around your inventory, journal or whatever and have no idea what they are supposed to do. Like going to the fridge for a snack and despite there being stuff in there, thinking you have nothing to eat. Nightwave's primary objective was to help with that. The narrative concept for Nightwave series was awersome. To paraphrase Steve Sinclair (then creative director of WF) the idea was to tell "Stories from the System", campfire tales. Things that are happening out there outside of our involvement, where WE are the side characters or at most basically janitors, fixing and moping up a mess someone else had made. Our involvement with the first two series was, basically just running into convicts or cultists and dealing with them because they just happened to get in our way. The third one did set us up as more of the protagonist again and while understandable for the story they wanted to tell, the whole concept kind of lost the original plot then. We did get two new boss fights out of them though. I still hope DE comes back to the very OG concept again but seriously limiting our direct involvement. Basically having it so we just run into some random enemies or things and we don't have any real way to affect the story unfolding in the system. We got bigger things to do and the system isn't helpless without the Tenno. Narmer cults, Sentient nests, political drama in the Grineer high society and council, Nef and his grifts. All these things might be happening right now in the system and we, who are out here jumping realities in some eldritch plan to defeat a god just aren't needed or even wanted to fix this. Any storytelling can come from Nora (if they can get the voice actor again) and with those static dioramas DE likes doing.
Nightwave conceptually is a great idea, and has gotten much better with tweaks to its progression so you can catch up + returning rewards so you can have the benefit of getting something first but don't have to worry about it never appearing again. Honestly my only issue with it is how flaccid they've been at utilizing the pirate radio concept in the setting. I would have loved a Fallout style radio with multiple channels that allow you to do a few different things I think would have been really fun for the game/community: - Multiple pirate station hosts for different Nightwave rotations, I'd kill to get a corpus Alex Jones style host that's just off the walls crazy about how the Corpus are putting chemicals in the coolant turning the kubrodons gay or stories about Kavat/Pobber hybrids, mixed in with funny ads. Or a Three Dog style Grineer host discussing the efforts of Kahl and the effect on the Grineer. - Music channels for the in-game OST, similar to what we have with the somachord. Maybe even have a channel dedicated to player submitted and approved music. Just feel like it's a small idea that can go a really long way in filling in empty time in the game while making the universe feel more alive/lived in.
I was initially upset after starting this past September that things like the Protokol weapon skins were Nightwave-exclusive, but they put those back into the game as Hex syndicate goodies to get with standing, so hey, it all works out.
deep rock galactic has a completely free battle pass, you can even do the old passes freely or just open the in mission chests that can spawn to find the skins from olderer the battle pass.
This is my only feature add I want for nightwave. Ability to go back to past volumes and finish what you missed. Like for vol 7? Im at 30+27 in level. I would appreciate being able to open vol 1, 2, etc and run that content.
Great video! Also with 1999 we essentially got a second free mini battlepass with the calendar system. The devs really do care about the community and it shows. I think warframe has the fairest monetization system in all of gaming and I am happy I started playing this game 5 years ago ❤
It's such a great way to earn resources like Orokin Catalysts/Reactors, Nitian Extracts, and even Kuva if you wanted. Some of the challenges are pretty passive too. I was personally playing when Nightwave first started. Honestly, didn't realize how long ago that was. Either way, I personally don't mind that the story/lore part of Nightwave got removed. It is a shame for sure. But if it takes away from the development of the main quests and updates, then I'm happy to live with the Nightwave Volumes. Glassmaker was interesting by introducing another living Orokin. Emissary was cool in a dark and creepy way. But Wolf of Saturn Six was my favorite lore-wise. A bunch Grineer escaping prison, led by this absolute unit of a Grineer wielding a big hammer. The Wolf just sounded and looked badass. He still appears in Kahl missions because The Wolf seems to have been abducted by The Sentients. But to this day, I am still hoping that Kahl finally gets to free The Wolf so he can join his rebel group. I feel like Kahl and The Wolf would really get along.
Haven't played for a while but I remember devs promising that people could manually switch to different seasons too. So getting cosmetics from old seasons would be much easier.
guild wars 2 have free battle pass too, if you have the latest expansion with better version too because there's no level, you'll get currency after finishing the weekly/daily mission and you can just buy the item you want the right away with that currency and the cosmetics item is not expired from the battle pass after the season is ended
Halo: The Master Chief Collection's "Battle Pass" is also free, which makes sense given that adding a paid system like that to what is effectively a re-release bundle would be extremely scummy. I'd actually say its system is a bit _better_ than Warframe's, since you can choose which series to put your reward points into, rather than have a given reward track be lost forever once its season/volume ends.
Expanding on the Glassmaker series; You mentioned it was 8 months of the same series which yes, made it very stale and and invoked an audible: “ugh.” Every time the glass resonance appeared, it also could very easily brick a mission for a few reasons: It could make certain units completely invulnerable even when shooting their new weak point that should be letting you damage it. So things like capture missions if you got really unlucky could force you to restart. Survival missions could die because too many enemies are unkillable. And while I initially loved the novelty it made the content I enjoyed most, endurance content like multi-hour survivals and disruptions, almost unplayable. Other than that, great video! Love the effort you put into it and it’s honestly really well put together.
It's always sad to know that they won't do extra stories, but it's one of the best battle passes out there, with very good rewards in general, I wish more games had such a free system.
Honestly, the boss fight in that series was fire lore-wise. My biggest problem was for a while, glassed enemies would bug out and become invulnerable, making Defense missions impossible to finish. There’s a funny clip of players punting an unkillable glass enemy across the map and over a cliff just to end the mission lmao
Deep Rock Galactic has a system similar to this with its performance pass (That’s their name for it) being completely free and making it to where you can’t spend money on those cosmetics, you gotta play for it. But recently they added a feature that lets you go back to previous seasons and play through them incase you’re new or weren’t able to get everything. I think warframe should have a similar system to this since Nora’s volumes don’t change the game much and is just a task on the back of your mind.
You say that but I've been waiting for certain armors from previous nightwaves to come back (some unique shoulder pauldrons, Saturn six armor) but as far as I'm aware they haven't
When I started playing warframe I was amazed that by the free items and cosmetics it gives to its players no other game would run the extra mile to give the players what they want and I would say this game is one of the most fun I ever had for a F2P experience
Personally, I think the entire reason that the Nightwave series model was taken away was specifically because the second series was bad for the average player. I didn't play too often during that time, but when I played I would never find the enemies that gave you Nightwave standing because they just had a chance to just not spawn. Glassmaker was a massive step in the right direction because that's when the model was a lot closer to what we have now. I really do wish we had more Nightwaves like Glassmaker though; it was so fun and the pure joy I felt discovering a weapon that DE didn't even tell us about was in the game. I really wish DE added more secrets to find like that in the content instead of just telling us too much these days.
I started playing WF the same week as night wave started. Wolf Fugitives were an absolute menace, they did not care at all about my MR and their ability to bullet sponge every shot I could carry combined with their ability to apply heat procs that could kill me on the first tick was not fun game design. They would show up in most missions, the wolf was even dumber in terms of bullet sponging but much easier to run away from if you didn't have a buch of high MR team mates.
Warframe battlepass: It keeps people coming in on a daily basis to if nothing else grind out the requirements. good stuff, LOVE DE, can't wait for soulframe
What I love about the night wave is the fact DE specifically said it's anti fomo because you can catch up even on the last week... Everything is doable, they know wf players got a lot of checklist stuff to do and almost all NW stuffs you end up doing w/o much effort.
As someone that did play during the series. The Series definitely were fun in the beginning and due to the fact it happened during the pandemic and trying to juggle bigger content updates they dragged on way to long and it was honestly a relief that glassmaker ended because I had to take an extended break because of it. From my perspective I think a lot of us miss the initial feeling the series had and basically blocked out the negatives because I'm sure plenty of us ended up dropping warframe for a while till the series ended and an intermission started. I even ended up missing some of the early volumes because glassmaker had me to burned out and only played new war then dropped it again and eventually becoming a daily player again when Zariman was out. overall though the Volumes are a good edition but at the expense of making more content islands because Nitain extract has pretty close to the same drop rate as mods except you need multiplies for crafting, especially for aura forma that need 10.
It seems like both the community and DE was burnt out because of series. If they could find a way to regularly incorporate them between content updates again, I think that would be really healthy overall.
So I've been around for all the nightwaves, and I will preface I loved the story aspect of the original and would love to see them back, however I feel in some cases people are looking at them with rose tinted glasses. During the Series, there would usually be side stuff happening and because of that the community would always be hit with "series fatigue". It was always cool and hype when a new series started, but after the story was fully wrapped up, and we were still MONTHS into it you would see "can this just END please" posts everywhere. Part of the problem was it would sidetrack missions in pugs where one player might be done and not have to worry about the side objectives, but someone else may need to complete it for standing so they end up forcing the mission out longer potentially. Also there was the Wolf.....oh lord the wolf, he was (and still is) a pain when he would spawn in a mission. So much so if you look at his page on the wiki you can see constant nerfs to just how tanky he is. Back in the day you could extend a mission up to 10+ minutes on JUST trying to take him out. Nowadays hes a bit more manageable, but some people still like to throw him out as a troll in SP missions, because the modifiers make him insane lol. All in all, it just led people to getting tired of the side stuff, whereas the current nightwaves don't really intrude on missions in a way that can hamper progress or other people. People mainly just get tired of a long nightwave now once you stop getting rewards and you've been getting nothing but creds lol. Granted while it would be nice to see Story nightwaves return, I think DE would have to slightly alter them to help on the whole fatigue issue. Glassmaker was definitely one of my favorites as it started as a pure mystery and was played as a whodunnit, until we got the reveal of a whole new orokin and Nora lore. I actually still have a pile of cred from every single nightwave since Wolf that kinda act as a lil trophies.
@Finallin even the model and the way of speaking is heavily reminiscent of the DJ, too bad Nora never tell a story after the face reveal. At least she dishes out some hard cold line when we beat The Glassmaker.
i remember when Nightwave was first introduced, i was finally starting to reach the end of the star chart and really beginning my MR grind. most of my time was spent on Hydron, even before i realized things like the mote amp even existed... so whenever the Wolf showed up there in his pre-nerf glory, i was stuck either spending 40 minutes whittling him down with my operator's base void beam, getting lucky enough that my team had what it took to merk him, or being the last person to leave because everyone else thought it was a waste of time. i miss those days. i, too, lament the loss of such an in-depth game world exploration narrative device, but i'm also not going to complain that it meant we probably got New War sooner. the game feels in a very healthy place right now, in no smal part due to Rebecca's superb leadership. hopefully that perceived health means, someday, we might get another micro expansion. though i'd take more reworks and tuneups over NW series any day. Banshee feels more like an air siren can that's lost it's squeak than a mythical creature known for bringing sonic doom, and two of Atlas' abilities are functionally entirely useless as anything more than a free subsume slot.
Such a tragedy the Nightwave Stories got abandoned. Even just rotating them would be so good for newbies to get some sort of understanding. Having the rotation of the 3 Original Nightwaves stretching them across 6 seasons with intermissions would be nice, and having a new one every 3 years or so is good enough for me. Just don´t abandon things, like it is with every cool new thing they introduce. Also interesting things; Am i the only one, or was Glass-maker really too cooked? Like i thought the still´s and narration of Nora were fully enough for the Nightwave. Sure the crime-scenes were very cool, but the Wolf, and Arlo´s, the pop in of NPC´s at random or the corruption from the glass-maker was more then enough for the Radio-broadcast of what´s new in the system. Wish they´d bring it back in some way.
I would love for all 3 series to be reconfigured into standalone side-quests. They were fun little stories to play through, but they didn't need to drip-feed it over time.
The crazy part is that I get regularly dismissed by newer and lower ranked players when I tell them how helpful doing the Nightwave can be in the beginning. Dude, I'm a LR4 and MR30 player giving solid advice instead of a handout on plat/mods/prime parts/etc. why not do this and get much needed weapon and frame slots? It takes little to no time to clear the entire week in 2-3 hours. It's guaranteed catalyst and reactors for a game with well over 750 items to level up and play. They always give out at least 3 regular forma per Nightwave season on top of the other types of forma. Sunday is usually the best time to get the elite weekly done (reset night). That's when most of the veterans are racing to get those done if you need to be carried through and you aren't geared up enough. Never do the sortie on Sunday until the reset because one recurring weekly is 30 eximus units or the elite weekly of 100 and there's a chance one of the sortie missions is all eximus units. Also, 2 challenges can be either complete a sortie or 3 for the elite weekly.
one wish I would like for Nora's nightwave is the inclusion of mini stories that just appear whenever youre near the nightwave radio. like just her expanding on whats going on in game, like maybe a rumor about lore or expansion on certain characters we havent had the pleasure of ever seeing again
For my money, they could've just done one 2- or 3-month unique Series at the beginning of each year, then split the rest of the time between 2-3 Nora's Mix volumes. Honestly it's not like you can't make 1-2 new enemy models, probably with some reused assets adjusted for freshness, and then either make them have to be sought out instead of just randomly invading, and a bunch of issues would be solved. It feels a little like the Leverian problem. We stopped getting it before we could even get a third of the way through all current warframes, though at least they gave _that_ its own little story. In the end, though, Nightwave is a massive improvement over the alternative: Alerts, and having an application on your phone that'll alarm you when a potato, vauban part, nitain, aura, or warframe helm dropped.
Did you complete the New War Part 3 yet? Nightwave and its host Nora Knight actually play a massive part in the explanation of whats going on post bad ending. Giving the drifter his name and following his progress against the Archons.
I like these retrospectives you're giving especially as a new player. Warframe is such a crazy rabbithole of a game that it is interesting to see how a newer player sees some of these moments like the old nightwave series. It's funny too because iirc Nightwave became a thing because DE Steve wanted to make a nemesis system just like in the Shadows or Mordor series, but then realized he couldn't due to the patent Warner bros made on the idea. So it ended up being reworked into the Lich system for the actual boss hunting and the story aspects of the Liches was put into the Nightwave series. Each idea was broken down into each of the series. Series 1 was for chasing down the lich followers and gathering info, Series 2 was for the "truly unique mechanics" each Lich would have, and Series 3 was the detective mode of finding clues to lead up to finding your lich. I still wish we could have seen it fleshed out. Loved the devstreams of DE Steve talking about it back in the day.
I enjoy making them! I'm actually a relatively new player when you factor in how long warframe has been around for, so I learn every time I make one of these videos!
Let's not even mention the eased costs of building a necramech now vs before. It's so easy for new players to get great things than can carry to the end, they juuuust need to recognize it (learn/research)
Didn’t even realize with you. Good to see your quality of videos isn’t limited to weapon reviews. Phenomenally done these past few weeks since I’ve found the channel cheers to you
One thing to add to the fact that the series were a resource drain was that it was a resource drain that would be played through and then after that be removed and the work put towards it largely lost.
season 2 started with friendly follower of arlos spawn in order to revive the player and fight for a short duration, those guys are not really in game other then codex or simulacrum, but all that effort for side content was not really worth it. with wolf, people were a bit upset it could come in any grineer mission and just be a damage spong alongside the 3 convicts spawning to keep him invunrable so it made chill games into a slog, same with random enemies that might catch you not ready or enemies that are invunrable unless you shoot hard to see at the time glass spots. some content stuck around, like the infested boss fight with a lantern, but the wolf is a mixed bag for players, on one hands, you want the wolf for the melee weapon chance, on the other, people would hate you for spawning it because its that much of a pain to deal with its damage limit, i wish the fight to kill the weakend version would stay on as a node and give players with wolf becons a refunt using the current nightwave credits.
Plus one whole periodic is in the cov-19 era of warframe keep in mind that even DE worked from home in those times too. Makin it hard to keep consistency on progress on their content plans etc
Nightwave was definitely a nice addition. I remember hating how limiting the “alert” system was as the alerts only lasted an hour and it was a PAIN to get niatan extract. Yes I miss the stories and gee I think that was the last time when I was excited for tomorrow for that game. Until 1999 dropped it kinda rekindled that hype again, however it’s somewhat dying again as eventually you do run out of daily options, I think…. I’ve also had the old stories confuse new players too but that usually ends up with me telling them what happened. Though I was a little MR5 when the wolf was brought in, killed me every time. Now I’m LR3 it doesn’t matter anymore but still. The wolf has burnt into me the sense of RUN!
Personally I hated events like glassmaker as I found them Confusing and lacking direction. I remember spending 30 minutes in one of the detective missions because they lacked a hint system and I could not figure out how to do the next step. I finally just gave up and ignored it until it was removed
I wish the wolf would spawn like the stalker and the grustrag/ zanuka. Would be nice to have a new "hunter" hunting for us. Seeing as he literally does exactly that. And he also has a beacon. So I still don't understand why DE didn't make that a thing, yet gave him his own beacon to spawn in.
Extra small thing I love about NW is how accessible it is, especially to new players. Battle passes are usually very grindy and the further you are, the better loot you get (and more currency). In Warframe, NW instead frontloads the currency - giving you 150 from the first level, which is like 3 normal rewards. Not only does it allow you to get good stuff right from the get-go, but for new players especially, it allows them to get Vauban and a reactor, which is amazing. The only thing missing from NW is story, but honestly, I'd rather they make amazing permanent content than temporary content that ends when NW season ends. Events used to be fun, but unfortunately new players can't enjoy them anymore as much. So I'm very happy with NW as it is.
I really miss the series from NW. Wolf of Saturn Six was so fun and I was excited for every story update. Seeing him in Khal's missions was a pleasent suprise. Wolf work same as Stalker, Zanuka and G3 but he was far more tanky, had crazier damage and was also pretty aggresive, the threat finally felt real after one shoting Stalker for 100th time. You're playing through your regular mission when you suddenly hear that howl and you just know you're in a serious danger. Other 2 were also fun and unique in their own ways, but Wolf still remains my favorite. I'm still hoping one day DE decides to bring back series in NW and one of them continues the story of Wolf
To be fair i think i understand why they removed series, on top of manpower issues, DE showed time and time again they are not fond of limited time content, and efectivly they want to keep evertything for everyone so people playing the game don't feel forced to play due to Fomo and new players don't feel like they missed too much by joining late, the game is over 10 year yet you can still acess everything to some extend, so while it was interesting concept i think i preffer it that way with Volumes
I really, really do miss the old Series system. While I understand why it had to leave, being that it slowed down other areas of the game, I loved the idea of things happening in the WF universe that alongside the main stories, it also felt like there was just more personality with Nightwave compared to now. I do hope DE eventually decides to revisit this idea or getting a specific team to handle Nightwave separately from the main-game content.
Nightwave (The Glassmaker) might very well have been what kept me going in those early years. I would have never had a way to get a free Warframe slot otherwise. Also it's how I got Vauban, my second frame and still one of my favorites to this day
I do kind of wish we'd get a return of Nightwave Series'. I feel like there's a lot of potential for story telling by letting players do mini missions based on things like the Rhino Prime Codex entry.
I also miss the actual stories from early Nightwave, Glassmaker was a bit tedious sure but man the Emissary was really interesting, and the cult is something I've always wanted to see make a larger return beyond one boss fight.
A vet. here, when it first came out, Wolfie was good (you hear Wolf's howl = locked-in); but as time goes on, it's getting 1. repetitive 2. FOMO hard due to the rewards being tied to specific NW, meaning that when it's gone, IT'S GONE FOREVER (they're mostly cosmetics but still) = it had become chores rather than side contents (Also no _RECOVERED_ at the time) 3. Quality dropped after the Glass Maker (I still remembered how much PAIN it had cost me to find THE GOD DAMN CLUES ON CETUS CRIME SCENE)
As someone that played from before the second dream until the new war, the nightwave was looked at as negative a bit. The first iteration pretty much made you grind everyday to complete it. Then they made it better over time. Also the story for them wasn't that great because you had to wait weeks at times for new updates. I'm glad they removed it and made it better.
While the nightwave seasons were cool, they were essentially a way to drip feed story. It certainly didn't leave such a big impact as the main story quests did, neither on me, nor the community at large. So, while I sympathize with the pain when looking at all the dropped systems that no longer see recurring development, Nightwave seasons are on the bottom of my list. That said, I really think DE needs to put systems in place to let players experience temporary story steps. Over the years, DE has added many time-limited events with story attached to them, even before Nightwave came out. All those events are lost to time.
its simple its easy to rank up, stays long enough to be done passively BUT you can also just rush through it if its going away soo, the only issue with it is that sometimes they take a while for the next acts or intermissions but thats fine imo as the game has regular content updates and nightwave battlepass isnt the main content of the game
My best and at the same time worst memory from the Wolf of Saturn series was encountering a fully jacked up wolf while leveling up our weakest frames/weapons on hydron. The amount of movement and kiting we as a squad had to do while being assaulted by grineer AND keeping the objective alive was very stressful but also oddly satisfying. It was a challenge for sure but taking down Wolf was a real achievement as well.
I'm sad too that there is no story anymore. But i understand it. DE for many years now try to avoid FOMO. And series were fomo generator in purest form. Now when someone ask "what is this nightwave" you have to say something like "its a battle pass, years ago there were stories, but they ended and now you can just look summary of them". Every type of operation that had unique rewards were later change into less story driven activity, and rewards were push somewhere. Great example is Ignis wraith. First it was reward for 10% best clans in some old as dinosaurs operation/event. Bc of this limits people who could buy those BP just give it for free or small fee for everyone who asked. But many years later it was given to baroo shop. And they were mad. And more mad when DE removed posibility of selling this BP. To avoid scaming people. AND EVEN MOAR MADE when DE give this BP to any clan that reach lvl 10. Other expamles? I took part in operation orphix. And i grind Cedo(multiple) and Lavos. Later it was thrown into hallowen store. And later it was given to i believe Father on deimos and i think those BP cannot be selled anymore. Also glassmaker thing can be obtained every week from Nora and you can get his weapon without participating in his years ago ended series. So DE tries to remove content that is one thing only. And turn it into "everyone can get it by themselves, even if its slightly grindy".
To answer the question at the start, Deep Rock Galactic. You can't put money into the pass at all, and you can go back to old passes to finish them up if you wanted to 100% the game.
I do miss these. I was only able to play glassmaker and I loved it. I joined during it, and I remember power leveling my mastery like no tomorrow just to be able to use Vitrica. Still use it to this day. But I think for the team, the need to build these stories takes away their ability to go full throttle on expansions like New War and 1999, which were both stellar. I’m ok with this change, even though I do wish we could have our cake and eat it too.
I have seen two games do a completely free battle pass, one being Warframe and the other being Gears 5 which released September 10th 2019. Gears 5 had a similar structure for its battle pass, it's called the Tour of Duty. It's entirely FREE, you get four daily challenges that are extremely simple, two of the challenges can be done in any game mode in the game, one that is exclusive to multiplayer and the fourth challenge can only be done in the PVE modes like Horde and Escape mode. Each tier would need a certain amount of stars to rank up to the next and they increase how many stars per tier, the challenges would give you a range of two starts up to four stars depending on the "difficulty" of the challenge. Since now Gears 5 is currently in maintenence mode, the game has permanent double xp but they call it boost, the boost doubles the stars you gain from the challenges so you can complete the Tour of Duty's faster forever. The difference is that you can spend money if you really want, you can buy Iron and use the iron to reroll your challenges, you get one free reroll daily then after that it's 10, 20, 30, 40, and then 50. It stays at 50 until the daily reset, but you can also earn iron from the Tour of Duty with varying amounts but the minimum a tier can give you is 50 iron, later in the TOD you'll get higher amounts so you could save up iron from a previous Tour of Duty and then use that iron on the challenges for the next Tour of Duty. I really really REALLY hope that the next Gears game (Gears of War: E Day) keeps the same battle pass system they had for Gears 5.
Given you have reviewed the history of primed chamber and nightwave, I would recommend reviewing the (short) history of Dizzying Rounds. It was available only twice in warframes history, the first being in Nightwave series 3 Glassmaker and then it reappeared all the way after in Noras mix part 6 (around ~3 years+). Between January 2021 which is when Glassmaker ended and May 2024 (right before mix 6 came out) the price of that mod rose extremely high and I remember seeing trading chat offers of 100 to 120 platinum for this specific mod. Then it came out with the new nightwave mix and the price dropped again to around 15 to 20 platinum (as of december 2024)
i played during series 1 and 3 the wolf of Saturn was cool... at first the issue is that he worked alot like stalker except bulkier i remember being in Helene with a ton of crap gear and suddenly hearing the roar the entire squad wiped and not he didn't de-spawn i like what they did with him now though where there are beacons to summon him on your terms and if we have an event like that in the future i would recommend handling it like that
I am still so sad that they moved away from the 'Series' formula. I loved the extra lore, but I get why DE moved away from it, especially with the then upcoming New War and later 1999 (which let's be real, they definitely thought of around the same time)
As someone who's played all the Nightwaves, I didn't enjoy the length of the Story ones. First Nightwave was new and shiny, random guys show up and throw Molotovs at you and ever so occasionally will the Wolf show up and wreck your shit. He was tough, even Veteran players had a hard time fighting him and he showed up at the worst time, Hydron was the levelling spot, if he spawned in everyone insta quit, I had the pleasure of fighting him with a regular arca plasmor built for rad and not really much else cause I was speed running void captures. He was unbeatable. Series 2 with the Prelates, was okay. They learnt to keep it to 3 months and had a target and achieved. Glass Maker on the other hand, that was a cluster fuck of a series, went for way too long and the Glassed enemies were just way too annoying. You had to destroy the glass nodes before you could do anything to them and they'd appear constantly throughout missions. I can still hear Nora saying "Glass Resonance in you area" this repeatable dialogue was enough to make me stop playing as soon as I hit 30 with it. Overall Nightwaves are better as a quick "don't think" thing that you can do behind the scenes without trying.
3:42 i still remember, i was still a novice player during the Wolf's pass - got whooped by him! Recently, as i came back to the game, i bought the wolf beacon with Nora...but he didn't spawn. I still wait to get my revenge ahahaha (i got to win against him during a Kahl mission, but my Tenno still seeks revenge..)
I really enjoyed the content in the old Nora stories, but I completely understand why they cut it in favor of other things. Now, with 1999, there's another weekly battle pass thing that allows you to get some items that are usually plat only. Lots to do.
There were some hits and misses in the Nightwave storyline. The first person investigations in Glassmaker were _needlessly particular_ pixel-hunts that you could get stuck on for dozens of minutes at a time. That said, while the community generally hated glass resonance enemies, I loved them -- I always get excited when mechanics from one of WF's systems invade another, and the fact that exploding glass enemies were a danger to _friends and foes_ was great. It reminded me of Halo, and the way that grenades dropped by dead enemies could cause chain reactions through the game's physics system. And as a business model that prioritizes the player, it's aces. It's so unobtrusive and well-justified within the lore that I didn't realize it _was_ a battlepass until one of my friends called it one.
Well, "killer" implies other companies are actively looking for some new solution that isn't intentionally exploitive. However, it was still limited time events and FOMO sucks. Glassmaker was cool. I like the little detective mode and... [spoiler ahead, not for the story but for something that gets shown.] ...Seeing Nora's face was surprisingly hype. "Now sing, you bastard."
@@Finallin I mostly mean the negative part tbh. I kinda hated feeling I HAD to play the game. If you HAVE to play the game it becomes a chore and then it stops being fun because it's an obligation instead of something you do for fun. Current Nightwave is way better that way, because while there's good rewards, nothing but the mods are not acquirable another way and the mods will come back so like... the Obligation^TM isn't there. Which means I've actually played MORE Warframe since series STOPPED than I did when Series were a thing outside of Series 1, because like... games being obligation makes them take up the same headspace as like, homework. And I can enjoy a class but homework is still something to get out of the way so I can do other stuff or to get done so it's done and I don't have to worry about it. And that just... sucks all the fun out Warframe. Which is sad for me, because I enjoy the core Warframe loop enough that sometimes I will log on, and just, go to the clan dojo and bounce around the entry hall, just have fun with the pure movement system with no pressures.
I’m perfectly happy with how Nightwave is at the moment. Though, if I’m allowed to be a little greedy, I do wish they had converted the three series into regular quests, because I’d honestly like to see more of Nora Night. We can only really get a small glimpse of her in the Glassmaker fight, and like to know more of her story.
Still remember The Wolf of Saturn Six ruining my defense sessions when I was Low MR (started playing March 2019). There was no realistic way for the new player to kill him and the defense wave won't be counted as completed while the wolf is still alive.
I think a thing a lot of people miss is night wave is not a monetization structure its actually there as a bit of guidance for unsure players. It gives concrete goals for every player every week.
DE understood the assignment. Battlepasses are fun ways to increase player engagement, but nearly every company leverages that with locking the player's own engagement behind a paywall, which never made sense to me. The only other company I can think of who avoids this same thing is Ghost Ship Games with Deep Rock Galactic (and also I've been told Arrowhead with Helldivers 2? IDK I haven't played it, a buddy told me they have something similar). Anyways, can I get a Rock and Stone? For Karl?
To answer the question at the start, Splatoon 3 does a very similar thing to what Warframe does. Every season there is a free battle pass that everyone can complete for free, no "paid" version and there is absolutely no FOMO. If you miss out on the pass, it will eventually rotate back in. I feel like this kind of model is crucial for live service games. The FOMO aspect of paid battle passes is extremely scummy and it demotivates a lot of people.
In rebutal to MozeTheNecromancer: nightwave was discontinued in favor of making more quests to move the overall story forward, too many resources were used to make them and at the time they were not appreciated, now with rose tinted glasses and the nostalgia factor, they seemed perfect, but the community was not that enthusiastic about it. So DE was forgoing their overall story, for episodic stories, that had a large part of the playerbase complaining like little bitches and a stagnation of the game overall. Rebecca when she took the lead roll, put everything on track and cleaned the ADHD production line that Steve had created and started moving things in a cohesive, structured and well passed manner. We still have nightwave with the most important factor, cosmetics and potatoes farm for F2P players.
I love puzzles so Glassmaker was amazing! Both story and lore wise! Though Nihil being a platformer boss was the last thing I expected - he was really a pain in butt, however it was cool because it brought everything together!! For my husband it was near impossible (not the platform enjoyer) so I beat the guy twice😂 Last I checked, you can still defeat him by buying the glassmaker/Nihill Obliette decoration in Nightwave credit shop if you wanna give it a try :P
One thing that can't be understated is that they give weapon and warframe slots from Nightwave. Those are useful no matter whether you're a veteran or new to the game, since there's no such thing as enough slots given the constant influx of new gear.
The thing is that people often forget is that DE isn't this super big studio with tons of money. They're a medium sized team running one of (if not the most) fair free to play game.
Do YOU think nightwave was a good idea?
Yes, but it kinda sucks not having the occasional alert for a free slot, reactor or even some bonus Nitain. Ik you can grind to the end for more, but it's a much greater commitment required now.
Yes
It's a free Battle pass with no premium only reward.
Nightwave is a godsend for new players. Getting free forma, slots, arcane, random mods, is great for new players.
Nw doesn’t always give me incentives to play the game, but it does give me things to do when i’m at the top and just want to play the game, for those not like me it basically just rewards you playing the game most of the time and provides challenges to earn more faster, NW as it is now with the permanent weekly challenges is peak 👍
the fact that DE has given us so much content over the years without us having to spend a single dime, it comes to show how much they love and respect the community, I don't think any other game can achieve the loyalty warframe players have for the game
Warframe does have an exceptionally loyal community, and that's one of the things that makes it so unique. I feel like the community isn't just loyal to the game though, they care so much about keeping it welcoming and kind. Which is a rarity among gaming communities nowadays.
No Man's Sky is another one that's does the same for it's community
We are definitely spending but not because we have to but want to.
The only game iv played for 10 years and spent clise to 600 and still plan to keep going
now only if they give us good inventory/relic/market management like alecaframe, that'd be great
warframe don't need you pay for play, they know that if you play more, the more likely you pay for something, which is healthy for players, bc they spend for fun, not for power creep
This is absolutely correct. Havent paid for anything in the game, but after 3 years of enjoyment, I became a common customer ,buying their sales on steam and prime passes,as well as regal aya. And I'm absolutely satisfied with their stuff
I have spent nearly a thousand dollars on Warframe since I started playing (around 100 dollars every year) but it doesn’t feel like I’m paying for content, it feels like I’m supporting the game I love.
I’m literally such a cheap gamer now. Hopped on warframe and was spending more money than any other game just because of how they built the game. Like why not
This the only game I feel satisfied spending money on afterwards unlike in other games I’m like “I cant believe I bought this shit”
I've got PTSD form Glass Maker. Hearing "There's Glass Resonance in your area" for the thousandth time WHEN I'M JUST TRYING TO FISH ON DEIMOS!
Lol! I can't imagine how annoying that got after a while though...
@@Finallin Real quick considering the Heart of Deimos update came out whilst Glass Maker was going on meaning you had to kill INFESTED by hitting weak points... Weak point that are immune to AOE... Like the AOE from Voidrigs 4th... Making Voidrig near useless in its debut Content Update... ThReReS gLaSs ReSoNaNcE iN yOuR aReA!
You just reawakened a core memory
@@commandersmith2327 before the glass is the wolf pack, you killed his pack, you got a bonk from the big bad wolf.
@@commandersmith2327it wasn't weak points, there was just a couple destructable crystals on random parts of their body to unlock their health bar
I'm kinda okay with Nightwave not having a story element. I don't like having missed all the story bits when I was on a hiatus.
Pretty sure once it ended you could view the story cutscenes even if you never reached the checkpoints, i do miss the stories though.
^^ yeah you can view all the previous stories
I never even thought of Nightwave being a battle pass until you said it in the beginning of the video. I like the fact that not only is it free, but it has overflow points that are used to get very niche resources in the game
Nighwave replaced OG Warframes 'Alert System' because these were the main ways to 100% get Nitain Extract(still the rarest resource in the game)
Plus the 2 Eclipse (Yes the actual phenomena) that have happened in my life, the devs have put at "Alert Mission" that rewarded us the augment mod 'Eclipse' which was unique for a warframe.
The legendary story of a guy, once bought 200 rerolls in a row to get a specific Kubrow color (back in the day you had to roll for them for platinum)
Digital Extreme were shocked, went full 180, removing the rolling mechanic and refunded the guy all his money
It’s a true showcase of good they are with the community, they did this on their own, no one complained, they just thought it wasn’t the best for us
They're an example of one of the few times a company understands how much monetization is "enough", rather than being greedy and trying to make as much profit as possible.
I missed that aspect of Nightwave. It was crazy how they weaved in a sort of mission progression and story into a battle pass (and it's all free!), but I completely understand why they stopped it. The cutscenes, scripted sequences and boss fight mechanics do take a lot of effort. I do hop that they would try to bring it back every once in a while.
Same, I do hope they'll do reruns of the themed ones now and then, but for the most part it's just been reruns of rewards.
Imagine a technocyte themed nightwave with a boss mission
I don't even think it needs some crazy intricate boss fights. Just some lore that isn't elaborated much on without deep diving through the codex.
I think they dropped it for the same reason they phased out timed events like Operations- because they created content that would be missed forever by any players who joined the game after the events had ended. Even I ended up missing some of those early operations when I took a hiatus from the game- I missed Slingstone and Gradivus Dilemma (and to this day, I've never been able to get my hands on a Brakk).
@ArcaneAzmadi yeah, they could just make the cutscenes reviewable. Brakk is still availible from doing invasions and getting hunted by gustrag 3. Much like when can still get the vitrica by doing the boss purchased from nightwave. It's not like they vaulted the obtainable content.
I also was not playing WF when the Series were in effect, so knowing that aspect was lost is saddening. However, the Nightwave is such a rewarding battlepass that is easily accessible to all players and so it continues to be, one of the best features ever added, it's just straight up free constant stuff.
The main idea for Nightwave was to give players some kind of a carrot to chase after. Humans have a thing for checklists, apparently. This was a big piece of feedback they got from newer players who has just completed Vor's Prize for example and didn't have a sherpa giving suggestions. And old vets who had done everything also were saying that there was nothing to go for in the game. So basically it was a way for DE to put in a Bounty system from the whole game.
Every long term MMO player ever knows that feeling or moment where you log into a game, look around your inventory, journal or whatever and have no idea what they are supposed to do. Like going to the fridge for a snack and despite there being stuff in there, thinking you have nothing to eat. Nightwave's primary objective was to help with that.
The narrative concept for Nightwave series was awersome. To paraphrase Steve Sinclair (then creative director of WF) the idea was to tell "Stories from the System", campfire tales. Things that are happening out there outside of our involvement, where WE are the side characters or at most basically janitors, fixing and moping up a mess someone else had made. Our involvement with the first two series was, basically just running into convicts or cultists and dealing with them because they just happened to get in our way. The third one did set us up as more of the protagonist again and while understandable for the story they wanted to tell, the whole concept kind of lost the original plot then.
We did get two new boss fights out of them though.
I still hope DE comes back to the very OG concept again but seriously limiting our direct involvement. Basically having it so we just run into some random enemies or things and we don't have any real way to affect the story unfolding in the system. We got bigger things to do and the system isn't helpless without the Tenno. Narmer cults, Sentient nests, political drama in the Grineer high society and council, Nef and his grifts. All these things might be happening right now in the system and we, who are out here jumping realities in some eldritch plan to defeat a god just aren't needed or even wanted to fix this.
Any storytelling can come from Nora (if they can get the voice actor again) and with those static dioramas DE likes doing.
Nightwave conceptually is a great idea, and has gotten much better with tweaks to its progression so you can catch up + returning rewards so you can have the benefit of getting something first but don't have to worry about it never appearing again.
Honestly my only issue with it is how flaccid they've been at utilizing the pirate radio concept in the setting. I would have loved a Fallout style radio with multiple channels that allow you to do a few different things I think would have been really fun for the game/community:
- Multiple pirate station hosts for different Nightwave rotations, I'd kill to get a corpus Alex Jones style host that's just off the walls crazy about how the Corpus are putting chemicals in the coolant turning the kubrodons gay or stories about Kavat/Pobber hybrids, mixed in with funny ads. Or a Three Dog style Grineer host discussing the efforts of Kahl and the effect on the Grineer.
- Music channels for the in-game OST, similar to what we have with the somachord. Maybe even have a channel dedicated to player submitted and approved music.
Just feel like it's a small idea that can go a really long way in filling in empty time in the game while making the universe feel more alive/lived in.
I was initially upset after starting this past September that things like the Protokol weapon skins were Nightwave-exclusive, but they put those back into the game as Hex syndicate goodies to get with standing, so hey, it all works out.
deep rock galactic has a completely free battle pass, you can even do the old passes freely or just open the in mission chests that can spawn to find the skins from olderer the battle pass.
This is my only feature add I want for nightwave. Ability to go back to past volumes and finish what you missed. Like for vol 7? Im at 30+27 in level. I would appreciate being able to open vol 1, 2, etc and run that content.
Great video! Also with 1999 we essentially got a second free mini battlepass with the calendar system. The devs really do care about the community and it shows. I think warframe has the fairest monetization system in all of gaming and I am happy I started playing this game 5 years ago ❤
Thanks for the info!
Who else misses going from planet to planet with a full squad hunting down (or more so getting hunted by) the Wolf of Saturn 6
It's such a great way to earn resources like Orokin Catalysts/Reactors, Nitian Extracts, and even Kuva if you wanted. Some of the challenges are pretty passive too.
I was personally playing when Nightwave first started. Honestly, didn't realize how long ago that was. Either way, I personally don't mind that the story/lore part of Nightwave got removed. It is a shame for sure. But if it takes away from the development of the main quests and updates, then I'm happy to live with the Nightwave Volumes.
Glassmaker was interesting by introducing another living Orokin. Emissary was cool in a dark and creepy way. But Wolf of Saturn Six was my favorite lore-wise. A bunch Grineer escaping prison, led by this absolute unit of a Grineer wielding a big hammer. The Wolf just sounded and looked badass. He still appears in Kahl missions because The Wolf seems to have been abducted by The Sentients. But to this day, I am still hoping that Kahl finally gets to free The Wolf so he can join his rebel group. I feel like Kahl and The Wolf would really get along.
Deep rock galactic is the only other game i can think of that has a free battle pass
Haven't played for a while but I remember devs promising that people could manually switch to different seasons too. So getting cosmetics from old seasons would be much easier.
Man what happened to unlocking cosmetics (which DRG puts into their battlepasses primarily) by just playing the game and being good at it?
guild wars 2 have free battle pass too, if you have the latest expansion
with better version too because there's no level, you'll get currency after finishing the weekly/daily mission and you can just buy the item you want the right away with that currency
and the cosmetics item is not expired from the battle pass after the season is ended
Helldivers 2 could also technically count with the warbond but it does have lot of grinding for Super Credits that you'll probably buy the warbonds
Halo: The Master Chief Collection's "Battle Pass" is also free, which makes sense given that adding a paid system like that to what is effectively a re-release bundle would be extremely scummy.
I'd actually say its system is a bit _better_ than Warframe's, since you can choose which series to put your reward points into, rather than have a given reward track be lost forever once its season/volume ends.
Expanding on the Glassmaker series;
You mentioned it was 8 months of the same series which yes, made it very stale and and invoked an audible: “ugh.” Every time the glass resonance appeared, it also could very easily brick a mission for a few reasons:
It could make certain units completely invulnerable even when shooting their new weak point that should be letting you damage it. So things like capture missions if you got really unlucky could force you to restart. Survival missions could die because too many enemies are unkillable.
And while I initially loved the novelty it made the content I enjoyed most, endurance content like multi-hour survivals and disruptions, almost unplayable.
Other than that, great video! Love the effort you put into it and it’s honestly really well put together.
It's always sad to know that they won't do extra stories, but it's one of the best battle passes out there, with very good rewards in general, I wish more games had such a free system.
Games could even keep their free and paid style models, but just make the free ones more rewarding like bro 😭
It would be nice if they repeated them, i just starter playing 2 weeks before arlo's finished, so it would be nice to experience that and the wolf's
Maybe because of different directions, so much new content that the old got wasted even though it's good.
HOLD’ UP, GLASS RESONANCE IN YOUR AREA 👁️👄👁️
I heard about that in another comment, must've been annoying lol
Honestly, the boss fight in that series was fire lore-wise. My biggest problem was for a while, glassed enemies would bug out and become invulnerable, making Defense missions impossible to finish. There’s a funny clip of players punting an unkillable glass enemy across the map and over a cliff just to end the mission lmao
😂 no I'm going to a new zone
Leave me alone! Gaaahh! Aaaaaaggh!
@@Finallin it was pretty annoying yes
Deep Rock Galactic has a system similar to this with its performance pass (That’s their name for it) being completely free and making it to where you can’t spend money on those cosmetics, you gotta play for it. But recently they added a feature that lets you go back to previous seasons and play through them incase you’re new or weren’t able to get everything. I think warframe should have a similar system to this since Nora’s volumes don’t change the game much and is just a task on the back of your mind.
The best thing is that a lot of night wave content isn't locked behind FOMO and every loot will come back
But every time I take an extended break, I end up missing a Night wave Season that has all of the things I don't have yet 😢
Happens to me with incarnon weeks lol
You say that but I've been waiting for certain armors from previous nightwaves to come back (some unique shoulder pauldrons, Saturn six armor) but as far as I'm aware they haven't
Saturn Six hasn't been featured again since Intermission 2.
5 years ago.
@aricohen5960 so my question is will the previous nigtwave stuff ever return
When I started playing warframe I was amazed that by the free items and cosmetics it gives to its players no other game would run the extra mile to give the players what they want and I would say this game is one of the most fun I ever had for a F2P experience
Personally, I think the entire reason that the Nightwave series model was taken away was specifically because the second series was bad for the average player. I didn't play too often during that time, but when I played I would never find the enemies that gave you Nightwave standing because they just had a chance to just not spawn. Glassmaker was a massive step in the right direction because that's when the model was a lot closer to what we have now. I really do wish we had more Nightwaves like Glassmaker though; it was so fun and the pure joy I felt discovering a weapon that DE didn't even tell us about was in the game. I really wish DE added more secrets to find like that in the content instead of just telling us too much these days.
I started playing WF the same week as night wave started. Wolf Fugitives were an absolute menace, they did not care at all about my MR and their ability to bullet sponge every shot I could carry combined with their ability to apply heat procs that could kill me on the first tick was not fun game design. They would show up in most missions, the wolf was even dumber in terms of bullet sponging but much easier to run away from if you didn't have a buch of high MR team mates.
Warframe battlepass: It keeps people coming in on a daily basis to if nothing else grind out the requirements. good stuff, LOVE DE, can't wait for soulframe
We need to see what the soulframe system will be like, but I have high hopes!
What I love about the night wave is the fact DE specifically said it's anti fomo because you can catch up even on the last week... Everything is doable, they know wf players got a lot of checklist stuff to do and almost all NW stuffs you end up doing w/o much effort.
Fun fact night wave is paying homage to the radio lady from the warriors movie
As someone that did play during the series. The Series definitely were fun in the beginning and due to the fact it happened during the pandemic and trying to juggle bigger content updates they dragged on way to long and it was honestly a relief that glassmaker ended because I had to take an extended break because of it. From my perspective I think a lot of us miss the initial feeling the series had and basically blocked out the negatives because I'm sure plenty of us ended up dropping warframe for a while till the series ended and an intermission started. I even ended up missing some of the early volumes because glassmaker had me to burned out and only played new war then dropped it again and eventually becoming a daily player again when Zariman was out.
overall though the Volumes are a good edition but at the expense of making more content islands because Nitain extract has pretty close to the same drop rate as mods except you need multiplies for crafting, especially for aura forma that need 10.
It seems like both the community and DE was burnt out because of series. If they could find a way to regularly incorporate them between content updates again, I think that would be really healthy overall.
So I've been around for all the nightwaves, and I will preface I loved the story aspect of the original and would love to see them back, however I feel in some cases people are looking at them with rose tinted glasses. During the Series, there would usually be side stuff happening and because of that the community would always be hit with "series fatigue". It was always cool and hype when a new series started, but after the story was fully wrapped up, and we were still MONTHS into it you would see "can this just END please" posts everywhere. Part of the problem was it would sidetrack missions in pugs where one player might be done and not have to worry about the side objectives, but someone else may need to complete it for standing so they end up forcing the mission out longer potentially. Also there was the Wolf.....oh lord the wolf, he was (and still is) a pain when he would spawn in a mission. So much so if you look at his page on the wiki you can see constant nerfs to just how tanky he is. Back in the day you could extend a mission up to 10+ minutes on JUST trying to take him out. Nowadays hes a bit more manageable, but some people still like to throw him out as a troll in SP missions, because the modifiers make him insane lol.
All in all, it just led people to getting tired of the side stuff, whereas the current nightwaves don't really intrude on missions in a way that can hamper progress or other people. People mainly just get tired of a long nightwave now once you stop getting rewards and you've been getting nothing but creds lol. Granted while it would be nice to see Story nightwaves return, I think DE would have to slightly alter them to help on the whole fatigue issue. Glassmaker was definitely one of my favorites as it started as a pure mystery and was played as a whodunnit, until we got the reveal of a whole new orokin and Nora lore. I actually still have a pile of cred from every single nightwave since Wolf that kinda act as a lil trophies.
Nora Night is heavily inspired by the DJ lady from The Warriors. You all know it boppers, it's the night of the warriors.
I think I remember reading that on the wiki, I visited the wikipedia page for it and checked out a clip of the original!
@Finallin even the model and the way of speaking is heavily reminiscent of the DJ, too bad Nora never tell a story after the face reveal. At least she dishes out some hard cold line when we beat The Glassmaker.
remember when started Warframe and saw Nora Night first time I was like that looks and sounds like DJ from The Warriors.
i remember when Nightwave was first introduced, i was finally starting to reach the end of the star chart and really beginning my MR grind. most of my time was spent on Hydron, even before i realized things like the mote amp even existed... so whenever the Wolf showed up there in his pre-nerf glory, i was stuck either spending 40 minutes whittling him down with my operator's base void beam, getting lucky enough that my team had what it took to merk him, or being the last person to leave because everyone else thought it was a waste of time. i miss those days.
i, too, lament the loss of such an in-depth game world exploration narrative device, but i'm also not going to complain that it meant we probably got New War sooner. the game feels in a very healthy place right now, in no smal part due to Rebecca's superb leadership. hopefully that perceived health means, someday, we might get another micro expansion. though i'd take more reworks and tuneups over NW series any day. Banshee feels more like an air siren can that's lost it's squeak than a mythical creature known for bringing sonic doom, and two of Atlas' abilities are functionally entirely useless as anything more than a free subsume slot.
Such a tragedy the Nightwave Stories got abandoned.
Even just rotating them would be so good for newbies to get some sort of understanding.
Having the rotation of the 3 Original Nightwaves stretching them across 6 seasons with intermissions would be nice,
and having a new one every 3 years or so is good enough for me.
Just don´t abandon things, like it is with every cool new thing they introduce.
Also interesting things; Am i the only one, or was Glass-maker really too cooked?
Like i thought the still´s and narration of Nora were fully enough for the Nightwave. Sure the crime-scenes were very cool, but the Wolf, and Arlo´s, the pop in of NPC´s at random or the corruption from the glass-maker was more then enough for the Radio-broadcast of what´s new in the system.
Wish they´d bring it back in some way.
I would love for all 3 series to be reconfigured into standalone side-quests.
They were fun little stories to play through, but they didn't need to drip-feed it over time.
The crazy part is that I get regularly dismissed by newer and lower ranked players when I tell them how helpful doing the Nightwave can be in the beginning. Dude, I'm a LR4 and MR30 player giving solid advice instead of a handout on plat/mods/prime parts/etc. why not do this and get much needed weapon and frame slots? It takes little to no time to clear the entire week in 2-3 hours. It's guaranteed catalyst and reactors for a game with well over 750 items to level up and play. They always give out at least 3 regular forma per Nightwave season on top of the other types of forma. Sunday is usually the best time to get the elite weekly done (reset night). That's when most of the veterans are racing to get those done if you need to be carried through and you aren't geared up enough. Never do the sortie on Sunday until the reset because one recurring weekly is 30 eximus units or the elite weekly of 100 and there's a chance one of the sortie missions is all eximus units. Also, 2 challenges can be either complete a sortie or 3 for the elite weekly.
one wish I would like for Nora's nightwave is the inclusion of mini stories that just appear whenever youre near the nightwave radio. like just her expanding on whats going on in game, like maybe a rumor about lore or expansion on certain characters we havent had the pleasure of ever seeing again
Honestly I was absolutely shocked when I learnt that it was a free battle pass cuz even paid games have multiple tiers of battle pass
For my money, they could've just done one 2- or 3-month unique Series at the beginning of each year, then split the rest of the time between 2-3 Nora's Mix volumes. Honestly it's not like you can't make 1-2 new enemy models, probably with some reused assets adjusted for freshness, and then either make them have to be sought out instead of just randomly invading, and a bunch of issues would be solved.
It feels a little like the Leverian problem. We stopped getting it before we could even get a third of the way through all current warframes, though at least they gave _that_ its own little story.
In the end, though, Nightwave is a massive improvement over the alternative: Alerts, and having an application on your phone that'll alarm you when a potato, vauban part, nitain, aura, or warframe helm dropped.
Did you complete the New War Part 3 yet? Nightwave and its host Nora Knight actually play a massive part in the explanation of whats going on post bad ending. Giving the drifter his name and following his progress against the Archons.
nightwave was absolutely a positive upgrade to the previous alert system , also DRG is awesome , ROCK AND STONE
I like these retrospectives you're giving especially as a new player. Warframe is such a crazy rabbithole of a game that it is interesting to see how a newer player sees some of these moments like the old nightwave series. It's funny too because iirc Nightwave became a thing because DE Steve wanted to make a nemesis system just like in the Shadows or Mordor series, but then realized he couldn't due to the patent Warner bros made on the idea.
So it ended up being reworked into the Lich system for the actual boss hunting and the story aspects of the Liches was put into the Nightwave series. Each idea was broken down into each of the series. Series 1 was for chasing down the lich followers and gathering info, Series 2 was for the "truly unique mechanics" each Lich would have, and Series 3 was the detective mode of finding clues to lead up to finding your lich. I still wish we could have seen it fleshed out. Loved the devstreams of DE Steve talking about it back in the day.
I enjoy making them! I'm actually a relatively new player when you factor in how long warframe has been around for, so I learn every time I make one of these videos!
Nightwave replaced Alerts.
And added new content (story)
Per day you could get 3x per day Nitain in Alerts which was frustrating.
Let's not even mention the eased costs of building a necramech now vs before. It's so easy for new players to get great things than can carry to the end, they juuuust need to recognize it (learn/research)
Didn’t even realize with you. Good to see your quality of videos isn’t limited to weapon reviews. Phenomenally done these past few weeks since I’ve found the channel cheers to you
Much appreciated! I'm glad you're enjoying it!
One thing to add to the fact that the series were a resource drain was that it was a resource drain that would be played through and then after that be removed and the work put towards it largely lost.
season 2 started with friendly follower of arlos spawn in order to revive the player and fight for a short duration, those guys are not really in game other then codex or simulacrum, but all that effort for side content was not really worth it.
with wolf, people were a bit upset it could come in any grineer mission and just be a damage spong alongside the 3 convicts spawning to keep him invunrable so it made chill games into a slog, same with random enemies that might catch you not ready or enemies that are invunrable unless you shoot hard to see at the time glass spots.
some content stuck around, like the infested boss fight with a lantern, but the wolf is a mixed bag for players, on one hands, you want the wolf for the melee weapon chance, on the other, people would hate you for spawning it because its that much of a pain to deal with its damage limit, i wish the fight to kill the weakend version would stay on as a node and give players with wolf becons a refunt using the current nightwave credits.
Very informational and really enjoyed your video layout and progression!
Appreciate that! Glad you liked the format!
0:18 although it isn't free to play, Deep Rock Galactic.
But you can grab it for pretty cheap when it goes on sale.
Plus one whole periodic is in the cov-19 era of warframe keep in mind that even DE worked from home in those times too.
Makin it hard to keep consistency on progress on their content plans etc
Nora is GOATED. Whomever voices her will forever be GOATED for being associated with Nora. DE hit the ball out the park with this.
Nightwave was definitely a nice addition. I remember hating how limiting the “alert” system was as the alerts only lasted an hour and it was a PAIN to get niatan extract. Yes I miss the stories and gee I think that was the last time when I was excited for tomorrow for that game. Until 1999 dropped it kinda rekindled that hype again, however it’s somewhat dying again as eventually you do run out of daily options, I think…. I’ve also had the old stories confuse new players too but that usually ends up with me telling them what happened.
Though I was a little MR5 when the wolf was brought in, killed me every time. Now I’m LR3 it doesn’t matter anymore but still. The wolf has burnt into me the sense of RUN!
Personally I hated events like glassmaker as I found them Confusing and lacking direction. I remember spending 30 minutes in one of the detective missions because they lacked a hint system and I could not figure out how to do the next step. I finally just gave up and ignored it until it was removed
I wish the wolf would spawn like the stalker and the grustrag/ zanuka. Would be nice to have a new "hunter" hunting for us. Seeing as he literally does exactly that. And he also has a beacon. So I still don't understand why DE didn't make that a thing, yet gave him his own beacon to spawn in.
Extra small thing I love about NW is how accessible it is, especially to new players.
Battle passes are usually very grindy and the further you are, the better loot you get (and more currency). In Warframe, NW instead frontloads the currency - giving you 150 from the first level, which is like 3 normal rewards. Not only does it allow you to get good stuff right from the get-go, but for new players especially, it allows them to get Vauban and a reactor, which is amazing.
The only thing missing from NW is story, but honestly, I'd rather they make amazing permanent content than temporary content that ends when NW season ends. Events used to be fun, but unfortunately new players can't enjoy them anymore as much. So I'm very happy with NW as it is.
I really miss the series from NW. Wolf of Saturn Six was so fun and I was excited for every story update. Seeing him in Khal's missions was a pleasent suprise. Wolf work same as Stalker, Zanuka and G3 but he was far more tanky, had crazier damage and was also pretty aggresive, the threat finally felt real after one shoting Stalker for 100th time. You're playing through your regular mission when you suddenly hear that howl and you just know you're in a serious danger. Other 2 were also fun and unique in their own ways, but Wolf still remains my favorite. I'm still hoping one day DE decides to bring back series in NW and one of them continues the story of Wolf
To be fair i think i understand why they removed series, on top of manpower issues, DE showed time and time again they are not fond of limited time content, and efectivly they want to keep evertything for everyone so people playing the game don't feel forced to play due to Fomo and new players don't feel like they missed too much by joining late, the game is over 10 year yet you can still acess everything to some extend, so while it was interesting concept i think i preffer it that way with Volumes
I really, really do miss the old Series system. While I understand why it had to leave, being that it slowed down other areas of the game, I loved the idea of things happening in the WF universe that alongside the main stories, it also felt like there was just more personality with Nightwave compared to now. I do hope DE eventually decides to revisit this idea or getting a specific team to handle Nightwave separately from the main-game content.
Nightwave is the perfect solution to this. And no one sees it. It's a fantastic idea.
Nightwave (The Glassmaker) might very well have been what kept me going in those early years. I would have never had a way to get a free Warframe slot otherwise. Also it's how I got Vauban, my second frame and still one of my favorites to this day
Before Nora, they gave you cosmetics, catalysts, etc. through alerts. Now you have to wait and wait until you get it from Nora. It's much worse, Nora.
I do kind of wish we'd get a return of Nightwave Series'. I feel like there's a lot of potential for story telling by letting players do mini missions based on things like the Rhino Prime Codex entry.
I also miss the actual stories from early Nightwave, Glassmaker was a bit tedious sure but man the Emissary was really interesting, and the cult is something I've always wanted to see make a larger return beyond one boss fight.
A vet. here, when it first came out, Wolfie was good (you hear Wolf's howl = locked-in); but as time goes on, it's getting 1. repetitive 2. FOMO hard due to the rewards being tied to specific NW, meaning that when it's gone, IT'S GONE FOREVER (they're mostly cosmetics but still) = it had become chores rather than side contents (Also no _RECOVERED_ at the time) 3. Quality dropped after the Glass Maker (I still remembered how much PAIN it had cost me to find THE GOD DAMN CLUES ON CETUS CRIME SCENE)
As someone that played from before the second dream until the new war, the nightwave was looked at as negative a bit. The first iteration pretty much made you grind everyday to complete it. Then they made it better over time. Also the story for them wasn't that great because you had to wait weeks at times for new updates. I'm glad they removed it and made it better.
While the nightwave seasons were cool, they were essentially a way to drip feed story. It certainly didn't leave such a big impact as the main story quests did, neither on me, nor the community at large. So, while I sympathize with the pain when looking at all the dropped systems that no longer see recurring development, Nightwave seasons are on the bottom of my list. That said, I really think DE needs to put systems in place to let players experience temporary story steps. Over the years, DE has added many time-limited events with story attached to them, even before Nightwave came out. All those events are lost to time.
its simple its easy to rank up, stays long enough to be done passively BUT you can also just rush through it if its going away soo, the only issue with it is that sometimes they take a while for the next acts or intermissions but thats fine imo as the game has regular content updates and nightwave battlepass isnt the main content of the game
My best and at the same time worst memory from the Wolf of Saturn series was encountering a fully jacked up wolf while leveling up our weakest frames/weapons on hydron. The amount of movement and kiting we as a squad had to do while being assaulted by grineer AND keeping the objective alive was very stressful but also oddly satisfying. It was a challenge for sure but taking down Wolf was a real achievement as well.
I've been with warframe since day one and took a break for a couple of years. I finally came back and am loving it
I'm sad too that there is no story anymore. But i understand it. DE for many years now try to avoid FOMO. And series were fomo generator in purest form. Now when someone ask "what is this nightwave" you have to say something like "its a battle pass, years ago there were stories, but they ended and now you can just look summary of them".
Every type of operation that had unique rewards were later change into less story driven activity, and rewards were push somewhere. Great example is Ignis wraith. First it was reward for 10% best clans in some old as dinosaurs operation/event. Bc of this limits people who could buy those BP just give it for free or small fee for everyone who asked. But many years later it was given to baroo shop. And they were mad. And more mad when DE removed posibility of selling this BP. To avoid scaming people. AND EVEN MOAR MADE when DE give this BP to any clan that reach lvl 10.
Other expamles?
I took part in operation orphix. And i grind Cedo(multiple) and Lavos. Later it was thrown into hallowen store. And later it was given to i believe Father on deimos and i think those BP cannot be selled anymore.
Also glassmaker thing can be obtained every week from Nora and you can get his weapon without participating in his years ago ended series.
So DE tries to remove content that is one thing only. And turn it into "everyone can get it by themselves, even if its slightly grindy".
To answer the question at the start, Deep Rock Galactic. You can't put money into the pass at all, and you can go back to old passes to finish them up if you wanted to 100% the game.
I do miss these. I was only able to play glassmaker and I loved it. I joined during it, and I remember power leveling my mastery like no tomorrow just to be able to use Vitrica. Still use it to this day. But I think for the team, the need to build these stories takes away their ability to go full throttle on expansions like New War and 1999, which were both stellar. I’m ok with this change, even though I do wish we could have our cake and eat it too.
I have seen two games do a completely free battle pass, one being Warframe and the other being Gears 5 which released September 10th 2019. Gears 5 had a similar structure for its battle pass, it's called the Tour of Duty. It's entirely FREE, you get four daily challenges that are extremely simple, two of the challenges can be done in any game mode in the game, one that is exclusive to multiplayer and the fourth challenge can only be done in the PVE modes like Horde and Escape mode. Each tier would need a certain amount of stars to rank up to the next and they increase how many stars per tier, the challenges would give you a range of two starts up to four stars depending on the "difficulty" of the challenge. Since now Gears 5 is currently in maintenence mode, the game has permanent double xp but they call it boost, the boost doubles the stars you gain from the challenges so you can complete the Tour of Duty's faster forever. The difference is that you can spend money if you really want, you can buy Iron and use the iron to reroll your challenges, you get one free reroll daily then after that it's 10, 20, 30, 40, and then 50. It stays at 50 until the daily reset, but you can also earn iron from the Tour of Duty with varying amounts but the minimum a tier can give you is 50 iron, later in the TOD you'll get higher amounts so you could save up iron from a previous Tour of Duty and then use that iron on the challenges for the next Tour of Duty. I really really REALLY hope that the next Gears game (Gears of War: E Day) keeps the same battle pass system they had for Gears 5.
Guild Wars 2 has a completely free battlepass since last year, no levels or tiers too just choose your reward
Only complaint I have with night wave is that we can't go back to past selections. We can go to past investigations, but not past item passes.
Given you have reviewed the history of primed chamber and nightwave, I would recommend reviewing the (short) history of Dizzying Rounds. It was available only twice in warframes history, the first being in Nightwave series 3 Glassmaker and then it reappeared all the way after in Noras mix part 6 (around ~3 years+). Between January 2021 which is when Glassmaker ended and May 2024 (right before mix 6 came out) the price of that mod rose extremely high and I remember seeing trading chat offers of 100 to 120 platinum for this specific mod. Then it came out with the new nightwave mix and the price dropped again to around 15 to 20 platinum (as of december 2024)
i played during series 1 and 3 the wolf of Saturn was cool... at first the issue is that he worked alot like stalker except bulkier i remember being in Helene with a ton of crap gear and suddenly hearing the roar the entire squad wiped and not he didn't de-spawn i like what they did with him now though where there are beacons to summon him on your terms and if we have an event like that in the future i would recommend handling it like that
I am still so sad that they moved away from the 'Series' formula. I loved the extra lore, but I get why DE moved away from it, especially with the then upcoming New War and later 1999 (which let's be real, they definitely thought of around the same time)
As someone who's played all the Nightwaves, I didn't enjoy the length of the Story ones.
First Nightwave was new and shiny, random guys show up and throw Molotovs at you and ever so occasionally will the Wolf show up and wreck your shit. He was tough, even Veteran players had a hard time fighting him and he showed up at the worst time, Hydron was the levelling spot, if he spawned in everyone insta quit, I had the pleasure of fighting him with a regular arca plasmor built for rad and not really much else cause I was speed running void captures. He was unbeatable.
Series 2 with the Prelates, was okay. They learnt to keep it to 3 months and had a target and achieved.
Glass Maker on the other hand, that was a cluster fuck of a series, went for way too long and the Glassed enemies were just way too annoying. You had to destroy the glass nodes before you could do anything to them and they'd appear constantly throughout missions. I can still hear Nora saying "Glass Resonance in you area" this repeatable dialogue was enough to make me stop playing as soon as I hit 30 with it.
Overall Nightwaves are better as a quick "don't think" thing that you can do behind the scenes without trying.
3:42 i still remember, i was still a novice player during the Wolf's pass - got whooped by him! Recently, as i came back to the game, i bought the wolf beacon with Nora...but he didn't spawn. I still wait to get my revenge ahahaha (i got to win against him during a Kahl mission, but my Tenno still seeks revenge..)
He always showed up when u had rank 0 weapons lol
Assuming no one beat me to it already; Nora Night is a reference to a radio host known only as "The DJ", From a movie called "The Warriors"
I really enjoyed the content in the old Nora stories, but I completely understand why they cut it in favor of other things. Now, with 1999, there's another weekly battle pass thing that allows you to get some items that are usually plat only. Lots to do.
There were some hits and misses in the Nightwave storyline. The first person investigations in Glassmaker were _needlessly particular_ pixel-hunts that you could get stuck on for dozens of minutes at a time.
That said, while the community generally hated glass resonance enemies, I loved them -- I always get excited when mechanics from one of WF's systems invade another, and the fact that exploding glass enemies were a danger to _friends and foes_ was great. It reminded me of Halo, and the way that grenades dropped by dead enemies could cause chain reactions through the game's physics system.
And as a business model that prioritizes the player, it's aces. It's so unobtrusive and well-justified within the lore that I didn't realize it _was_ a battlepass until one of my friends called it one.
the master chief collections Battle pass system is also FIRE
Obviously it is worse to have to complete nora as it was before. All because of alerts much faster and without the loss of time that nora means.
Well, "killer" implies other companies are actively looking for some new solution that isn't intentionally exploitive.
However, it was still limited time events and FOMO sucks. Glassmaker was cool. I like the little detective mode and... [spoiler ahead, not for the story but for something that gets shown.]
...Seeing Nora's face was surprisingly hype. "Now sing, you bastard."
Series did another thing... they added strong pressure to KEEP playing in order to actually have the story.
Double edged sword, but i see what you mean!
@@Finallin I mostly mean the negative part tbh. I kinda hated feeling I HAD to play the game. If you HAVE to play the game it becomes a chore and then it stops being fun because it's an obligation instead of something you do for fun.
Current Nightwave is way better that way, because while there's good rewards, nothing but the mods are not acquirable another way and the mods will come back so like... the Obligation^TM isn't there. Which means I've actually played MORE Warframe since series STOPPED than I did when Series were a thing outside of Series 1, because like... games being obligation makes them take up the same headspace as like, homework. And I can enjoy a class but homework is still something to get out of the way so I can do other stuff or to get done so it's done and I don't have to worry about it. And that just... sucks all the fun out Warframe. Which is sad for me, because I enjoy the core Warframe loop enough that sometimes I will log on, and just, go to the clan dojo and bounce around the entry hall, just have fun with the pure movement system with no pressures.
I’m perfectly happy with how Nightwave is at the moment.
Though, if I’m allowed to be a little greedy, I do wish they had converted the three series into regular quests, because I’d honestly like to see more of Nora Night.
We can only really get a small glimpse of her in the Glassmaker fight, and like to know more of her story.
Still remember The Wolf of Saturn Six ruining my defense sessions when I was Low MR (started playing March 2019). There was no realistic way for the new player to kill him and the defense wave won't be counted as completed while the wolf is still alive.
Here's an idea use Nora to retell old events of days past.
Just add some recap chapters, Unlocked at set point levels.
Deep rock galactic :) since all the items are never lost just thrown into the loot pool for the stuff you find in missions :D
I think a thing a lot of people miss is night wave is not a monetization structure its actually there as a bit of guidance for unsure players. It gives concrete goals for every player every week.
DE understood the assignment. Battlepasses are fun ways to increase player engagement, but nearly every company leverages that with locking the player's own engagement behind a paywall, which never made sense to me. The only other company I can think of who avoids this same thing is Ghost Ship Games with Deep Rock Galactic (and also I've been told Arrowhead with Helldivers 2? IDK I haven't played it, a buddy told me they have something similar).
Anyways, can I get a Rock and Stone? For Karl?
To answer the question at the start, Splatoon 3 does a very similar thing to what Warframe does. Every season there is a free battle pass that everyone can complete for free, no "paid" version and there is absolutely no FOMO. If you miss out on the pass, it will eventually rotate back in. I feel like this kind of model is crucial for live service games. The FOMO aspect of paid battle passes is extremely scummy and it demotivates a lot of people.
In rebutal to MozeTheNecromancer: nightwave was discontinued in favor of making more quests to move the overall story forward, too many resources were used to make them and at the time they were not appreciated, now with rose tinted glasses and the nostalgia factor, they seemed perfect, but the community was not that enthusiastic about it.
So DE was forgoing their overall story, for episodic stories, that had a large part of the playerbase complaining like little bitches and a stagnation of the game overall. Rebecca when she took the lead roll, put everything on track and cleaned the ADHD production line that Steve had created and started moving things in a cohesive, structured and well passed manner. We still have nightwave with the most important factor, cosmetics and potatoes farm for F2P players.
I love puzzles so Glassmaker was amazing! Both story and lore wise!
Though Nihil being a platformer boss was the last thing I expected - he was really a pain in butt, however it was cool because it brought everything together!!
For my husband it was near impossible (not the platform enjoyer) so I beat the guy twice😂
Last I checked, you can still defeat him by buying the glassmaker/Nihill Obliette decoration in Nightwave credit shop if you wanna give it a try :P
Another nice thing is recycled rewards. Roughly half of the rewards each volume are previous rewards, meaning reduced FOMO for unique rewards.
I agree, I'm glad they're not locking us out of things that were available for a limited time.
One thing that can't be understated is that they give weapon and warframe slots from Nightwave. Those are useful no matter whether you're a veteran or new to the game, since there's no such thing as enough slots given the constant influx of new gear.
If only half of the challenges weren't such a PAIN😩😫
The thing is that people often forget is that DE isn't this super big studio with tons of money. They're a medium sized team running one of (if not the most) fair free to play game.