Please don’t come in the comment section defending HYBE x GEFFEN or the execs in any way 😂 Over here we are against the exploitation of young girls, colorism, & micro aggressions of ANY kind. I like to call a Spade a Spade. Thankyouuuu ❤
I want to explain what Mei was saying about being called "cute." She was talking about the difference in what is considered socially acceptible behavior for women. It IS as compliment to be called "cute" in Japan, but you're not supposed to accept it. This goes for all compliments. As soon as someone compliments you, calls you cute, smart, etc etc, you're supposed to deny it. Bonus points if you can use that and compliment them instead. " If you just said "Thank you." It would reflect badly on your character. Like, people might think you're conceited or self centered and start ostracizing you. Instead, in America, it's perfectly ok to accept someone's compliment. In fact, if you respond to someone calling you cute with a, "Oh no no no, I'm not cute." People would think you have low self esteem. And Mei was saying she likes being able to just say "Thank you." to someone calling her cute, without fear of the kind of social backlash she would receive if she did that in Japan. I am basing this on my personal experience in Japan. I lived in Japan for several years and fully immersed myself in the culture. I worked at a public school, joined a local dance school, and only had Japanese friends. I now work as a Japanese to English translator. So really it's a mix of my personal experience in the country and stuff my close Japanese female friends have told me (I am also female, btw.)
Adéla for me was the most heartbreaking elimination cause she worked so hard and consistently ranked in the top 4 until the fan voting when she ranked dead last and also to see Emily get that much hate just for her introduction really hurts😔
they hated them for their LOOKS like TT ik its a survival show and internet peeps are gonna say what they gonna say but fuck, these girls were BLINDSIDED. They did not sign up for a survival show! And to tell them they need to use social media to gain followers..ew
Ezrela was fully right stating the fact it was gonna be a fight between her and Lara getting a spot in Katseye because there could only be “one Indian girl.”
Everyone bashing Manon for missing days of practice, THAT WEREN'T MANDATORY, in order to prioritize her mental and physical health better not ever try and pretend to care about idols being over worked, depressed, etc. Regarding Naisha, if she was the only one that uploaded original content, I'm not against her being the only one to get eliminated. However, it's very obvious she experienced micro aggressions from the beginning with the "aggressive" comments. I just wish she didn't take her frustration out on Manon, who had nothing to do with her elimination.
Summed up everything perfectly! 🥰 I literally don’t understand why they were calling Neisha dance “aggressive” but when Emily was doing the same thing she would praised. They honestly were finding so many excuses to let her go and the social media situation was the perfect excuse. They really exploited the hell out of these girls 😞
altho I agree there might have been a bit of a race bias, when she was confronted with publishing unreleased music, she started arguing that she had screenshots, which my intuition tells me that hybe most likely didnt like that she dosent have the "docile and innocent" personality they need. Lets remember kpop idols need to have very demure personalities, always be perfect and always be smiley
@@mariasol1545 for sure! But it was honestly really weird that they first appreciated her dancing style at the beginning cause she danced in a more cool and “masculine” style but when T&D started it suddenly became a problem 🧐 also they had 100,000+ auditions if they first knew that her style of dancing wasn’t what they were looking for why not look at all the other options
9:07 periodd this isnt talked about enough.. altho i love all the katseye members, it IRKS my soul that all of the ones that made it are girls that were really rich before the survival show. This means not only did they have more access to better training since a younger age, but also a safety net if they didnt make the group. Im afraid i cant say the same for some of the other girls that didnt make it
@@mariasafron7789 yeah i noticed that too.. Sophia based on what I have read, she came from a wealthy family..Lara's house was huge, Megan, Dani and Yoonchae have professional trainings... Manon she travels alot...hmmm...but they deserves it though..
You are on to something about Manon being anxious in the T&D home with the other girls. Manon revealed that she is a hypochondriac on live with Daniella a while back. This explains a lot as well.
What's even funnier now, Missy just admitted on a Weverse newsletter, that T&D rehearsal wasn't mandatory. So, what was real reason why they hated on Manon? We know why, but I want to know the new excuse 😅
bro mandaroty or not, it is NEEDED. Idk if you;ve ever performed ut even one member missing in dancing/singing/drama acts can lead to the whole thing getting messed up
@@skyward7903as a professional dancer who is actively dancing in the industry. They do not treat you that way for missing rehearsals. When you show up you better look like you never missed a day. That’s all there is to it. Now, if it is mandatory there’s a different story.
@@Izonivedeewhat we’re not going to do is invalidate what we all saw with our own eyes. This documentary contains colorism and micro aggressions. Manon was unjustly villainized way more than the shady corporation that lied to multiple girls for over a year about a secret survival show. Furthermore, they had one LOUSY psychologist that allowed a group therapy session for bashing Manon. THERE’S NO EXCUSE FOR THAT!
@@raebabysrealm I get you , but like ofcourse the girls are gonna be frustrated at you if you constantly don't come to practice and you have to work a whole set of another choreography if she doesn't decide to come. It was a very competitive environment and obviously they would be annoyed if someone who didn't work hard gets to the top. YES THE SHOW WAS JUST FULL OF COLORISM AND ALOT OF OTHER BAD THINGS BUT WE SERIOUSLY CANNOT BLAME THE GIRLS AND CANNOT BLAME MANON , THEY ARE JUST GIRLS AT THE END OF THE DAY.
I do think the original song thing was taken so seriously because it cost money to buy that song and then that song was apart of the program so they had dance rehearsals and vocal rehearsals with the girls and all that hard was invalidated. So you then have to start back at square one that was a song that could’ve been apart there debut. For son this was his first chance to have a bigger role so and the higher ups hate to lose money when they haven’t seen any return on their investment is how I took it. Not invalidating your opinion just thinking why that episode seems serious it was clash of generations to me.
Manon didnt move out..I think it was Missy who says that.. Because she was breaking a lot of rules and always late on their trainings, it was decided that it was best for her to stay with her Aunt...also, Manon took accountability for her actions that is whyI think we should move on and just support all of them...
They lied to the girls about it being a survival show…. You don’t think they would exaggerate or lie about Manon’s behavior? I don’t believe a word that comes out of Missy’s mouth. Manon took accountability because she was pressured to, gaslit, and hated for receiving public praise. I mean Sophia was giving her dirty looks for crying out loud. Yes, they have moved on. GREAT! But my critique is on HYBE x GEFFEN and the execs for having the nerve to speak on integrity when they are the biggest liars and rule breakers in the room.
@@raebabysrealm that is your conspiracy theory, i will not based my opinion on theory... well, almost all the trainees and their mentors was not happy with Manon, and like what Sophia says, it started a month after she arrived on DA..Sophia was honest with Manon and they already had that talked before their group meeting but Manon ignores it and continue with her habit...the only time Manon did something was when the voting system was starting and she was doing really good with the rankings...Manon was the one who asked for that group meeting, so I dont think she was pressured to do that.. and you forget how Manon ignores Lara...Manon admitted she was wrong and appologized already...all of them move on now...
@raebabysrealm Case in point 👉🏽 In Dream Academy (UA-cam), GxH told the audience that Lexie departure was due to her wanting to work more behind the scenes (music engineer or something). Nothing to do with her wanting to leave due to what they did, particularly on mission 2 elimination. Yes, I would take anything they said with a grain of salt. Especially from Missy...that lady had her favorites and she bias.
@@sweetonsweet924 and you will never know that if they did not include that in their neflix docu...so if they really want to lie about it, why put that on the series, they can just edited it out or force Lexie to say different reason for leaving the program... again Manon took accountability for her actions, why can't the fans accept that...she became better because of that... to be honest, Manon was given special treatment on the show.. cause if the program was really fair to all trainees ,Manon will not debut... her skills set was low until the end of the show...
Watching the documentary, Manon wasn't the only person who missed practice; others also missed as a result of many things, and so did Manon. She was sick at a point. But everyone is on Manon because they feel she's not good enough and because she was scouted and then selected, you guys should burry the hate, let's be Eyekons who love their Katseyes without any feud, all these unnecessary backlashes ❤❤❤❤❤❤
Manon was below and still is within katseye but she def has the skills and the other points to debut. + HYBEGEFFEN ABSOLUTELY KNEW that SHE NEEDED to debut for the sake of the grp. let's not even lie now... she was and still is the main character
3:20 litteraly Ezrela and Lara. Lara was way too talented for Dream Academy, but it helped her with being in a group. Nayoung litteraly should've been in that group, but they just wanted to kick her out like ALL SHADE. Honestly, I don't know why they kicked Celeste when she was in the top 6.... 4 TIMES. Like- they just decided to eliminate her for no reason. They dragged all the white girls, and no one Is ready to have a conversation about it. Megan and Daniela were also invalidated cause they looked white and they are from America. Manon, too , only represents Switzerland and mentions that once she's African, but a dozen times, she is Italian. Lara is also from America, and Sophia is born in New York. In the end, we ended with a white washed group that is supposed to be international. This is why I got no beef with VCHA cause they were a AMERICAN GROUP not international while Katseye were and people preffered to care about race when in europe people are more representative of where they come from than what they look like but no one is ready for that convo. Manon was a victim like the other 20 girls, and actually, Manon wasn't the only one who had no training. Lexie, Marquise, Celeste, Samara, and Brooklyn never had this type of intensive training, too, but no one talked about how hard they worked. They all were controlled mentally to hate on Manon, and I don't blame them for that. They all spent years, and we put in their head that because of Manon, they might not be part of the group. Everything was geared against her.
Manon regularly mentions that’s she’s Ghanian AND Italian, she doesn’t make exemptions of either or. You have selective hearing babes. Also Samara came from a family of singers, she said this herself, so she DID have training in that. The only thing she didn’t have formal training in was dancing but she had training in singing thanks to her parents and family. You must’ve selectively missed that too.
@OGseoulite Manon said a lot of Times she was ghanaian after the show when she got selected and I think everytime it was her speaking and not hybe cutting her words she has always been talking about her African heritage and whatever that follows and what I'm talking about is not Manon saying she's only Italian and Swiss, I'm litteraly talking about how hybe and Korean forums are only putting those two countries unless if it's Manon or a fan themselves. Samara comes from a family that knows how to sing but she had to change the way she learned how to sing to be accommodated to the way Hybe had envisioned for them. Not you pointing out only two things that you decided to take in your own point of view and not even trying to have a discussion on the other point and now I have selective hearing? The ioke
@@fearnot_jeans Manon has always represented all ends of her heritages, again- she’s never exmpted either or and takes great pride in her roots whether it’s her nationality a Swiss, her Italian parentage, and her GHANIAN parentage- (not “African” cause Africa is a continent baby let’s not be slow here….) and seems to have no issue explaining when asked about her roots. She’s *always* done that. You clearly haven’t watched enough material outside of the show cause if you did you would have seen that and not feel an unnecessary need to argue about it. Next back to Samara, she didn’t have to change & adapt her voice to “HYBE’s style” as much as you’re trying to exaggerate. In fact the vocal trainers Hybe had hired don’t coach them in any specific style other than basic musical dynamics, harmonies, how to sing in a group appropriately, how to sing live, & amount many other things shown in the show and unseen. Samara like other trainees who showed higher skill sets in singing, all received training that helped REFINE what infant singing talents they already built upon at that point. The only people who had sign I can’t changes to how they approached singing forreal were Lara & Sophia. A few others but those would be more notable people I would use as examples for your points there rather than solely Samara.
What’s horrible is the favoritism. They ALL breached the NDA. So they all should’ve been disciplined the same. What’s horrible is how they lied about it being a survival show and then exploited them for views by creating emotional turmoil & drama. I promise, defending greedy corporations is NOT the hill you wanna be on.
@@raebabysrealm Hybe wants to make money, Manon will make them money, she's exceptionally beautiful, and popular. So of course they would pick her! K-pop is not just about talent and hard work, it's about looks. Manon doesn't need surgeries, the girl is gifted. She might not be the most talented, best dancer or best singer, but her contribution is her unique looks and carisma, and that can't be achieved with "training"... that's why she probably didn't care about practising lol.
Please don’t come in the comment section defending HYBE x GEFFEN or the execs in any way 😂
Over here we are against the exploitation of young girls, colorism, & micro aggressions of ANY kind. I like to call a Spade a Spade. Thankyouuuu ❤
I want to explain what Mei was saying about being called "cute." She was talking about the difference in what is considered socially acceptible behavior for women.
It IS as compliment to be called "cute" in Japan, but you're not supposed to accept it. This goes for all compliments. As soon as someone compliments you, calls you cute, smart, etc etc, you're supposed to deny it. Bonus points if you can use that and compliment them instead. " If you just said "Thank you." It would reflect badly on your character. Like, people might think you're conceited or self centered and start ostracizing you.
Instead, in America, it's perfectly ok to accept someone's compliment. In fact, if you respond to someone calling you cute with a, "Oh no no no, I'm not cute." People would think you have low self esteem. And Mei was saying she likes being able to just say "Thank you." to someone calling her cute, without fear of the kind of social backlash she would receive if she did that in Japan.
I am basing this on my personal experience in Japan. I lived in Japan for several years and fully immersed myself in the culture. I worked at a public school, joined a local dance school, and only had Japanese friends. I now work as a Japanese to English translator. So really it's a mix of my personal experience in the country and stuff my close Japanese female friends have told me (I am also female, btw.)
Superrr cool! Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience!! I definitely plan on visiting 🥹 hopefully I can hit you up for some tips.
Adéla for me was the most heartbreaking elimination cause she worked so hard and consistently ranked in the top 4 until the fan voting when she ranked dead last and also to see Emily get that much hate just for her introduction really hurts😔
I knowww. People on the internet are so cruel. & I blame all the adults for tricking those girls into such a horrible situation.
@@raebabysrealm I agree
they hated them for their LOOKS like TT ik its a survival show and internet peeps are gonna say what they gonna say but fuck, these girls were BLINDSIDED. They did not sign up for a survival show! And to tell them they need to use social media to gain followers..ew
@@skyward7903oh my goshhh, I forgot about the social media thing. Ugh just so many red flags 🚩 throughout the process!
Ezrela was fully right stating the fact it was gonna be a fight between her and Lara getting a spot in Katseye because there could only be “one Indian girl.”
Everyone bashing Manon for missing days of practice, THAT WEREN'T MANDATORY, in order to prioritize her mental and physical health better not ever try and pretend to care about idols being over worked, depressed, etc. Regarding Naisha, if she was the only one that uploaded original content, I'm not against her being the only one to get eliminated. However, it's very obvious she experienced micro aggressions from the beginning with the "aggressive" comments. I just wish she didn't take her frustration out on Manon, who had nothing to do with her elimination.
exactly
Summed up everything perfectly! 🥰 I literally don’t understand why they were calling Neisha dance “aggressive” but when Emily was doing the same thing she would praised. They honestly were finding so many excuses to let her go and the social media situation was the perfect excuse. They really exploited the hell out of these girls 😞
Thankyou for watching! ❤
& honestly it was just so weird. The execs were so deplorable. The process was full of so many micro-aggressions.
altho I agree there might have been a bit of a race bias, when she was confronted with publishing unreleased music, she started arguing that she had screenshots, which my intuition tells me that hybe most likely didnt like that she dosent have the "docile and innocent" personality they need.
Lets remember kpop idols need to have very demure personalities, always be perfect and always be smiley
@@mariasol1545 for sure! But it was honestly really weird that they first appreciated her dancing style at the beginning cause she danced in a more cool and “masculine” style but when T&D started it suddenly became a problem 🧐 also they had 100,000+ auditions if they first knew that her style of dancing wasn’t what they were looking for why not look at all the other options
EXACTLY ❤
9:07 periodd this isnt talked about enough.. altho i love all the katseye members, it IRKS my soul that all of the ones that made it are girls that were really rich before the survival show.
This means not only did they have more access to better training since a younger age, but also a safety net if they didnt make the group. Im afraid i cant say the same for some of the other girls that didnt make it
@@mariasafron7789 yeah i noticed that too.. Sophia based on what I have read, she came from a wealthy family..Lara's house was huge, Megan, Dani and Yoonchae have professional trainings... Manon she travels alot...hmmm...but they deserves it though..
You are on to something about Manon being anxious in the T&D home with the other girls. Manon revealed that she is a hypochondriac on live with Daniella a while back.
This explains a lot as well.
What's even funnier now, Missy just admitted on a Weverse newsletter, that T&D rehearsal wasn't mandatory.
So, what was real reason why they hated on Manon? We know why, but I want to know the new excuse 😅
Gurl, please stop. As a hardcore Manon fan you have to admit she actually messed up
bro mandaroty or not, it is NEEDED. Idk if you;ve ever performed ut even one member missing in dancing/singing/drama acts can lead to the whole thing getting messed up
@@skyward7903as a professional dancer who is actively dancing in the industry. They do not treat you that way for missing rehearsals. When you show up you better look like you never missed a day. That’s all there is to it. Now, if it is mandatory there’s a different story.
@@Izonivedeewhat we’re not going to do is invalidate what we all saw with our own eyes. This documentary contains colorism and micro aggressions. Manon was unjustly villainized way more than the shady corporation that lied to multiple girls for over a year about a secret survival show. Furthermore, they had one LOUSY psychologist that allowed a group therapy session for bashing Manon. THERE’S NO EXCUSE FOR THAT!
@@raebabysrealm I get you , but like ofcourse the girls are gonna be frustrated at you if you constantly don't come to practice and you have to work a whole set of another choreography if she doesn't decide to come. It was a very competitive environment and obviously they would be annoyed if someone who didn't work hard gets to the top. YES THE SHOW WAS JUST FULL OF COLORISM AND ALOT OF OTHER BAD THINGS BUT WE SERIOUSLY CANNOT BLAME THE GIRLS AND CANNOT BLAME MANON , THEY ARE JUST GIRLS AT THE END OF THE DAY.
I do think the original song thing was taken so seriously because it cost money to buy that song and then that song was apart of the program so they had dance rehearsals and vocal rehearsals with the girls and all that hard was invalidated. So you then have to start back at square one that was a song that could’ve been apart there debut. For son this was his first chance to have a bigger role so and the higher ups hate to lose money when they haven’t seen any return on their investment is how I took it. Not invalidating your opinion just thinking why that episode seems serious it was clash of generations to me.
Manon didnt move out..I think it was Missy who says that.. Because she was breaking a lot of rules and always late on their trainings, it was decided that it was best for her to stay with her Aunt...also, Manon took accountability for her actions that is whyI think we should move on and just support all of them...
They lied to the girls about it being a survival show…. You don’t think they would exaggerate or lie about Manon’s behavior? I don’t believe a word that comes out of Missy’s mouth.
Manon took accountability because she was pressured to, gaslit, and hated for receiving public praise. I mean Sophia was giving her dirty looks for crying out loud.
Yes, they have moved on. GREAT! But my critique is on HYBE x GEFFEN and the execs for having the nerve to speak on integrity when they are the biggest liars and rule breakers in the room.
@@raebabysrealm that is your conspiracy theory, i will not based my opinion on theory... well, almost all the trainees and their mentors was not happy with Manon, and like what Sophia says, it started a month after she arrived on DA..Sophia was honest with Manon and they already had that talked before their group meeting but Manon ignores it and continue with her habit...the only time Manon did something was when the voting system was starting and she was doing really good with the rankings...Manon was the one who asked for that group meeting, so I dont think she was pressured to do that.. and you forget how Manon ignores Lara...Manon admitted she was wrong and appologized already...all of them move on now...
@raebabysrealm Case in point 👉🏽 In Dream Academy (UA-cam), GxH told the audience that Lexie departure was due to her wanting to work more behind the scenes (music engineer or something).
Nothing to do with her wanting to leave due to what they did, particularly on mission 2 elimination. Yes, I would take anything they said with a grain of salt.
Especially from Missy...that lady had her favorites and she bias.
@@sweetonsweet924Yesss! Thankyou, great point. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
@@sweetonsweet924 and you will never know that if they did not include that in their neflix docu...so if they really want to lie about it, why put that on the series, they can just edited it out or force Lexie to say different reason for leaving the program... again Manon took accountability for her actions, why can't the fans accept that...she became better because of that... to be honest, Manon was given special treatment on the show.. cause if the program was really fair to all trainees ,Manon will not debut... her skills set was low until the end of the show...
Watching the documentary, Manon wasn't the only person who missed practice; others also missed as a result of many things, and so did Manon. She was sick at a point. But everyone is on Manon because they feel she's not good enough and because she was scouted and then selected, you guys should burry the hate, let's be Eyekons who love their Katseyes without any feud, all these unnecessary backlashes ❤❤❤❤❤❤
Lexie missed like 15 days of practice before her departure and nobody really say anything besides mitra
you literally spoke nothing but straight facts this entire video
Thankyou for watching 🥹❤
Manon was below and still is within katseye but she def has the skills and the other points to debut.
+ HYBEGEFFEN ABSOLUTELY KNEW that SHE NEEDED to debut for the sake of the grp.
let's not even lie now... she was and still is the main character
Look at all the HYBE stans trying their hardest to show they don’t have NO sense or integrity.
3:20 litteraly Ezrela and Lara.
Lara was way too talented for Dream Academy, but it helped her with being in a group.
Nayoung litteraly should've been in that group, but they just wanted to kick her out like ALL SHADE.
Honestly, I don't know why they kicked Celeste when she was in the top 6.... 4 TIMES. Like- they just decided to eliminate her for no reason.
They dragged all the white girls, and no one Is ready to have a conversation about it. Megan and Daniela were also invalidated cause they looked white and they are from America. Manon, too , only represents Switzerland and mentions that once she's African, but a dozen times, she is Italian. Lara is also from America, and Sophia is born in New York. In the end, we ended with a white washed group that is supposed to be international. This is why I got no beef with VCHA cause they were a AMERICAN GROUP not international while Katseye were and people preffered to care about race when in europe people are more representative of where they come from than what they look like but no one is ready for that convo.
Manon was a victim like the other 20 girls, and actually, Manon wasn't the only one who had no training. Lexie, Marquise, Celeste, Samara, and Brooklyn never had this type of intensive training, too, but no one talked about how hard they worked. They all were controlled mentally to hate on Manon, and I don't blame them for that. They all spent years, and we put in their head that because of Manon, they might not be part of the group. Everything was geared against her.
Manon regularly mentions that’s she’s Ghanian AND Italian, she doesn’t make exemptions of either or. You have selective hearing babes.
Also Samara came from a family of singers, she said this herself, so she DID have training in that. The only thing she didn’t have formal training in was dancing but she had training in singing thanks to her parents and family. You must’ve selectively missed that too.
@OGseoulite Manon said a lot of Times she was ghanaian after the show when she got selected and I think everytime it was her speaking and not hybe cutting her words she has always been talking about her African heritage and whatever that follows and what I'm talking about is not Manon saying she's only Italian and Swiss, I'm litteraly talking about how hybe and Korean forums are only putting those two countries unless if it's Manon or a fan themselves.
Samara comes from a family that knows how to sing but she had to change the way she learned how to sing to be accommodated to the way Hybe had envisioned for them.
Not you pointing out only two things that you decided to take in your own point of view and not even trying to have a discussion on the other point and now I have selective hearing? The ioke
@@fearnot_jeans Manon has always represented all ends of her heritages, again- she’s never exmpted either or and takes great pride in her roots whether it’s her nationality a Swiss, her Italian parentage, and her GHANIAN parentage- (not “African” cause Africa is a continent baby let’s not be slow here….) and seems to have no issue explaining when asked about her roots. She’s *always* done that. You clearly haven’t watched enough material outside of the show cause if you did you would have seen that and not feel an unnecessary need to argue about it.
Next back to Samara, she didn’t have to change & adapt her voice to “HYBE’s style” as much as you’re trying to exaggerate. In fact the vocal trainers Hybe had hired don’t coach them in any specific style other than basic musical dynamics, harmonies, how to sing in a group appropriately, how to sing live, & amount many other things shown in the show and unseen. Samara like other trainees who showed higher skill sets in singing, all received training that helped REFINE what infant singing talents they already built upon at that point. The only people who had sign I can’t changes to how they approached singing forreal were Lara & Sophia. A few others but those would be more notable people I would use as examples for your points there rather than solely Samara.
So do you know how the music industry working.? If you link the original music that horrible.
What’s horrible is the favoritism. They ALL breached the NDA. So they all should’ve been disciplined the same.
What’s horrible is how they lied about it being a survival show and then exploited them for views by creating emotional turmoil & drama.
I promise, defending greedy corporations is NOT the hill you wanna be on.
@@raebabysrealm Hybe wants to make money, Manon will make them money, she's exceptionally beautiful, and popular. So of course they would pick her! K-pop is not just about talent and hard work, it's about looks. Manon doesn't need surgeries, the girl is gifted. She might not be the most talented, best dancer or best singer, but her contribution is her unique looks and carisma, and that can't be achieved with "training"... that's why she probably didn't care about practising lol.
u ateeeeee