i’m still confused on what the premise is…i’m guessing they meant best of the 21st century? also how is cliff floyd going to emphasize wins and then put degrom at #2 lol
He didn't really think that one through obviously but the premise is clearly just being filthy and for more than just 2-3 years. It's also difficult to do a list like that when you're not splitting it into two decades. Comes down to individual opinion at that point. deGrom is undisputed in 2010-2020. The argument that guys like Johan, Pedro etc. should be included in a 2000s list is pretty strong. For that reason should have split the decades.
Degrom's FIP speaks for itself. He heard the phrase "pitch for contact" and thought "that's a cop out". Dude's an absolute beast, and wish he played up here for Toronto.
@@therealjip Should have an asterisk next to that stat, given that it the 2020 season. Also helped that they got to play against a team with 1/10 their budget.
@@Ariana321 why does it matter we played a team 1/10 the dodgers' budget? A win is a win. Plus why should 2020 have an asterik? if anything it's the Astros in 2017. Anyways, Kershaw is top 5 regardless. He is a world series champ and you can't take that away from him.
@@tribalchief791 yeah I forgot about him, Zack elfin kinda gives me oswalt vibes especially if he can keep that era down. Been waiting on him and Vince to get their eras down
Wins meant a lot when pitchers went deep into games. Denny McLain won 31 in 1968 and it meant a lot. He had 37 decisions. How many pitchers even start that many games today?
@@dl2k671 Proving what? Demonstrate conclusively that McLain was a replacement level talent in 1968 and just stumbled into 31 wins pitching poorly late into games. Show me where a pitcher has stumbled into 55 wins in a two year period as an average or below-average pitcher. My point was that wins meant more when starters were going through the order four times than now when they go through it two or three.
The doc had 12/6 hook , fastball command, could frame you up on the box, loved when he started throwing The Rivera cutter after that all star game, now he could jam u up, or get more ground balls.
@@nathanbarnes9373 he definitely is. One of the last breeds of old school pitchers. When he retired he was the active leader in shutouts and complete games. If roy had the team kershaw did he would have close to 250 wins. Roy played on literally the worst team of the early 21st century and still always had a positive win record. One of the most dominant pitchers of his era. Everyone hated squaring up to Roy at the plate.
@@Gdfsandoz I was talking about greinke and his peak being definitely top 6 but I agree with you on roy too if both weren't on such bad teams for most of their careers their numbers like era and wins would look similar to kershaws imo
@@w8ssy Being a winner? Jacob a pitcher is responsible for his own run support? LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
"If he has two of his pitches working for him, its gonna be tough. If he has all three working, we have no shot." I dont remember which opposing manager said this about facing Kershaw but I think its accurate and shows how much respect everyone in the game has for him
@@declanhickey1533 nah lmao you cant qualify it like that. Its either the 2000’s or the 2010’s. Cant combine the two they arent the same eras. The top 5-6 in the 00’s is very different from the 10’s list
Kershaw, Holliday, Verlander, Scherzer, Grienke, Sale...Martinez is a close one but all those active guys are going to add more stats and will look better post 2000.
@@ethan3949 I hope you are just trolling with that statement. Otherwise it's a dumbass statement. The reason he only had 169 wins is because he pitched behind bottom 3 offenses every single year and even a historically bad offense in 2012 I believe. If he went 9 innings and gave up no runs their was a pretty good chance he wasn't getting a win. You heard that right. Those teams STRUGGLED to even get 1 run many times.
Even as a diehard Mariners fan in the 90s who got to watch Big Unit every start, Pedro was way ahead of him and other pitchers by miles. He had 4 A+ pitches that he could locate. He put up ridiculously great numbers in a hitters park and in an AL with juiced up stars everywhere. Best pitcher ive ever seen. Randy was absolutely filthy but his knock was at times he had control issues. His control issues are why I also put Maddux ahead of him in the 90s era. In the 2000's era I put Randy Johnson ahead of Pedro because he got better and shined in the postseason as Pedro got older and struggled especially in the postseason against the Yankees.
1.Pedro Martinez 2.Roy Holladay 3. Johan Santana 4.Randy Johnson 5.Roger Clemens 6.Curt Schilling 7. Tim Lincecum 8. Cliff Lee 9. Josh Beckett 10. Felix Hernandez I watched baseball religiously and honestly Johan, Roy and Pedro were the holy trinity in that era. And to see Johan not get any love truly infuriates me.
The freak was nasty with that spliter curve ball combo, watch a lot of his starts in his prime. I always watch the best pitching matchups while the Cubs suck
Waino won 3 rings went to the world series 5 times and set the record with yadi for most wins with a single catcher I believe. Statistically hes a sneaky candidate
There are plenty of great pitchers in the 2000 era that have had great careers, Pedro Martinez, Andy Pettitte, Roy Oswalt, Roy Halladay, Felix Hernandez, Cliff Lee, Johan Santana, etc. Its kind of difficult comparing to players still playing at the moment, probably should be some separation there.
Tim Lincecum. He dominated for 4 years then flamed out. But he was sure fun to watch and root for. He will always be one of my top favorite players, just a tad under Will Clark.
Huge verlander fan, electric stuff , power fastball, power slide piece, and 3 finger change and that change was filthy, but his uncle Charlie deemed him as lord Charles
I believe that Randy Johnson was the greatest left-handed pitcher of all time. He would dominate any era of baseball. He barely missed being the second man the strike out 5,000 in his career. If just one of his early seasons with Montreal have been a little bit better, he would have had it. Randy Johnson and Roy holiday were the last complete game pitchers in major league history. Randy Johnson pulled off the unheard of seasons with 300 or more strikeouts and eras around 2:00.
You can argue that Mark Buehrle should have been in the top 5, and you didn't even give him honorable mention? Look at his numbers from 2000 and on, dude is seriously underrated.
@@tgrt1348 Ok got it. But yes a lot of people forget about him. 5x all-star, 2 no hitters (one of which was perfect game) and a world series win. His numbers are equal to or better than the top six list in the video. I know there were others overlooked also such as Greinke.
Top 10 in order Pedro, Kershaw, Johnson, Hernandez, Verlander, Scherzer, Degrom, Grienke, Halloday Arguably Pedro and Johnson really are lower since this is just supposed to be their 2000's work, I still think they belong in the list though. (Especially Pedro)
@Danny Chains As I said it's debatable because of the encompassing time period.. That being said Pedro had arguably the best peak for a pitcher, since at least WW2, if not of all time, and the majority of that peak was in the 2000s.
How does Cliff Floyd NOT rank Doc? I think Plesiac's list is better. I would have ranked them Halladay/ Kershaw/ Scherzer/ Verlander/ Linculm and Hernandez. DOC was dominant for ten years.
Here is a list with actual numbers. 1. Clayton Kershaw (2.45 ERA, 2597 Strikeouts, 157 ERA+, 3 CY Youngs, 1 MVP, Top 5 in CY Young Voting 7x) 2. Max Scherzer (3.19 ERA, 2869 Strikeouts, 132 ERA+, 3 CY Youngs, Top 5 in CY Young Voting 7x) 3. Justin Verlander (3.33 ERA, 3013 Strikeouts, 129 ERA+, 2 CY Youngs, 1 MVP, Top 5 in CY Young Voting 8x) 4. Randy Johnson (3.34 ERA, 2182 Strikeouts, 137 ERA+, 3 CY Youngs, Top 5 in CY Young Voting 4x) 5. Jacob Degrom (2.54 ERA, 1433 Strikeouts, 154 ERA+, 2 CY Youngs,Top 5 in CY Young Voting 3x) 6. Roy Halladay (3.38 ERA, 2117 Strikeouts, 131 ERA+, 2 CY Youngs,Top 5 in CY Young Voting 7x) Just for context here is the rest of my list: 7. Johan Santana (3.20 ERA, 1988 Strikeouts, 136 ERA+, 2 CY Youngs, Top 5 in CY Young Voting 5x) 8. Zach Grienke (3.38 ERA, 2742 Strikeouts, 124 ERA+, 1 CY Youngs,Top 5 in CY Young Voting 4x) 9. Felix Hernandez (3.42 ERA, 2524 Strikeouts, 117 ERA+, 1 CY Youngs, Top 5 in CY Young Voting 4x)
If they didn’t have Randy Johnson it’s make more sense, but since he’s in, where the heck is Pedro?! Both pitches until 2009. Both had their last really good season in 2005. If you’re talking more 2005 and beyond, they should’ve mentions johan Santana for sure. Also cliff lee, zack greinke, David price, Chris Sale, gerrit cole, even kluber for a 5 year stretch.
I have no problem with any of the pitchers on this list. I have a problem with a "2000s" list (which appears to be tracking 2005ish-now) not taking into account post-season performance. How do you put Lincecum on a list like this and not have Bumgarner? That's all I'm saying.
Just want to give honorable mention to Adam wainwright who won 19 and 20 games in 2009 and 2010 and 2012 to 2013 and also going 17-7 in 2022 at like age 40!!!!
So Bumgarner helps SF win 3 World Series Championships and now he's forgotten? Is R Westbrook better than K Leonard or K Durant because he averaged a triple double a few times during the regular season? Baseball analytics has to evolve and take into account the importance of playoff games.
Exactly! To not factor in playing to win or go home, you basically are saying you don’t care about competing when it really matters. To your point about Madbum, Lincecum deserves to be ranked even higher with his post-season numbers.
OMG!! In this top they both ignored Johan Santana JAJAJAJAJA 2 Cy young (not to mention that 2 were stolen), 1 triple crown and the best pitcher of his time.
If you go by peak Lincecum had an amazing peak but if you go by the whole of the 2000's he doesn't belong anywhere on this list. here's my ranking for the top pitchers of the century so far, not by peak but by overall production. 1. Clayton Kershaw 2. Justin Verlander 3. Max Scherzer 4. CC Sabathia 5. Roy Halladay 6. Randy Johnson 7. Johan Santana 8. Pedro Martinez 9. Felix Hernandez 10. Zach Greinke 11. Mark Buehrle 12. Jacob DeGrom 13. Chris Sale 14. David Price 15. Cole Hamels 16. Roy Oswalt 17. Maddison Bumgarner 18. Bartolo Colon 19. Adam Wainwright 20. Tim Hudson 21. Cliff Lee 22. Andy Pettit 23. Mike Mussina 24. John Lester 25. Gerritt Cole 26. Curt Schilling 27. Roger Clemens 28. Chris Carpenter 29. Jake Peavy 30. John Lackey All these players had better careers then Tim Lincecum during the 00's. Tim is absolutely one of my favorites growing up, I have his jersey which is more then I can say for all but 3 other players on this list but he didn't do it long enough to be up there with these guys. (let me know if I missed anybody or if you have any problems with my rankings)
I understand why they mean. By 2000s and up. But let's not forget roger clemens put some serious numbers 2000-2005 even led the league in era twice. But no argument on number 1.
Degrom is hands down best pitcher right now. But he has not been there for that long. That’s why he’s not really in this list because all of these guys have paved a way for the pitchers of today
Peak effectiveness via Three True Outcomes Dominance, Starters: Kershaw Pedro Randy Scherzer DeGrom Verlander Bieber Koufax Sale Lincecum Cole Bauer Syndergaard Arrieta Ryan Glasnow Snell J.R. Richard Sam McDowell Clemens
@@nathanbarnes9373 Yeah because Koufax and Ryan and Richard and McDowell all pitched then even if they were dead. I mean read the first line. You want to add Tom Griffin and Bob Veale, I’m all in.
2000s and 2010s? How is Randy Johnson and Roy Halladay(RIP) mentioned and not Pedro? From 2000 to 2003 he was by far the best and pitched one of the best seasons of all time.(the other was him in 99)
Degrom still has to shine some more years to have a place in Cooperstown IMO. Kershaw???? he can retire now if he wants to, he's got a place in Cooperstown for sure.
If Roy Halladay isn't number 1 these guys need to rethink everything they do. cause the guy dominated the AL east with against those stacked Yankee and Red Sox teams. even after he got traded to the Phillies he dominated the NL threw a no no in his first ever playoff appearance and World Series champion edit: Kershaw is not a 2000s pitcher 😂😂😂 and no diss to Kersh cause he's a stud but I'm taking Doc any day no matter the condition over Kersh
Give me a 3 yest stretch or even a single season of Doc's career that was better then Kershaws... your a fucking moron if you take him higher... many people think Kershaw is a top 5 if not top 3 pitcher ever due to his numbers
Buddy, you’re entire comment just reeks of meaningless conjecture and personal feelings, there is literally zero statistical justification for preferring Doc over Kershaw no matter what. Kershaw blows him out of the water in ERA (not close), Kershaw strikes out wayyyyy more batters which means u gotta worry less abt potential defense mishaps costing outs, he gives up much less hits than doc ever did, and in 2013-2016, particularly 2014, Kershaw May have been the best pitcher ever. I’m not a dodgers fan but just someone who can look at objective data and say yep, this dudes the best. If you don’t like the eye test of those basic stats, Kershaw kills Doc in ERA+ which accounts for the average pitcher at the time and ballparks so itd account for your stuff about the AL East, this is just a cringe take man, Regarding the 2000s stuff, you’re comment that Kershaw isn’t a 2000s is pretty stupid considering the majority of both lists in the video consisted of players who’s careers have been in the 2010s, obviously they actually meant 21st century
I love how every pitcher has a highlight reel playing, and then for degrom it’s just him vibing before a game stretching
Scherzer didnt have 1 either
Pretty sure it was live footage of them getting ready.
He was getting ready to pitch bro bro..
@@Zestybackwash25 The live look in while talking about him in this context is pretty cool.
Any top 5 list for 2000 and beyond without kershaw is a joke. He’s easily top 5
He's easily top 1
@@royaltyyy9693 could argue top 1 very easily top 2
And max scherzer
He's top 1.
He’s top 1
i’m still confused on what the premise is…i’m guessing they meant best of the 21st century? also how is cliff floyd going to emphasize wins and then put degrom at #2 lol
He didn't really think that one through obviously but the premise is clearly just being filthy and for more than just 2-3 years. It's also difficult to do a list like that when you're not splitting it into two decades. Comes down to individual opinion at that point. deGrom is undisputed in 2010-2020. The argument that guys like Johan, Pedro etc. should be included in a 2000s list is pretty strong. For that reason should have split the decades.
Wins doesn’t matter honestly but I agree that he should have some consistency.
@@jacobredmond4127 wins show that you go deep into games.
@@diemrcupcake but wins also depend a lot on your team not blowing leads and giving run support which is something the Mets dont do for deGrom
@@blink182lives100 this is true
2010-2020 .... 162-63 2.31 ERA 2054 innings... Clayton Kershaw is number 1 easily.... not even a contest
Degrom's FIP speaks for itself. He heard the phrase "pitch for contact" and thought "that's a cop out". Dude's an absolute beast, and wish he played up here for Toronto.
Kersh lowest
Era & Whip (live ball for starters)
2nd lowest h/9
3x Cy Young & strikeout leader.
And an mvp
@@jacksonvance7404 and a world series champ!
@@therealjip World Series champ doesn’t help him
@@therealjip Should have an asterisk next to that stat, given that it the 2020 season. Also helped that they got to play against a team with 1/10 their budget.
@@Ariana321 why does it matter we played a team 1/10 the dodgers' budget? A win is a win. Plus why should 2020 have an asterik? if anything it's the Astros in 2017. Anyways, Kershaw is top 5 regardless. He is a world series champ and you can't take that away from him.
“Emphasis on wins” Felix would have so many more wins if he played on a better run support.
Zack Greinke still not getting much love.
Should have made it easily aside from johnson his peak was the best and he has been good for a long time
Yea I commented that I would of put Greinke over Lincecum. Greinke has played longer and was dominate for a longer period of time
No Pedro Martinez?
Also best hitter by far
Also best hitter by far
As a Phillies fan, I miss that late 2000s early 2010s rotation, cole hamels, cliff Lee, and the doc Roy halladay
LETHAL
Don't forget roy Oswalt
right there with you, also cant forget lidge, i know he was a closer but he was so good
@@tribalchief791 yeah I forgot about him, Zack elfin kinda gives me oswalt vibes especially if he can keep that era down. Been waiting on him and Vince to get their eras down
as a dodgers fan, lol i hate you guys 😂
but that rotation was 🔥
Having CC ahead of Max Scherzer, a 3 time Cy, two no hitters, 20k game etc etc is a complete travesty. And Im a Yankee fan.
Ur worried about that bruh they put Kershaw in grimy of degrom
Did the guy who said he put an emphasis on record put degrom at 2? I agree that degrom is one of the best but record means absolytely nothing
Wins meant a lot when pitchers went deep into games. Denny McLain won 31 in 1968 and it meant a lot. He had 37 decisions. How many pitchers even start that many games today?
@@alsacrime4806 he could have been awful in every one of those starts and if he had good run support he would get the win
@@dl2k671 Proving what? Demonstrate conclusively that McLain was a replacement level talent in 1968 and just stumbled into 31 wins pitching poorly late into games. Show me where a pitcher has stumbled into 55 wins in a two year period as an average or below-average pitcher.
My point was that wins meant more when starters were going through the order four times than now when they go through it two or three.
Cleveland CC was filthy , loved his combo with fastball, slider, change piece , loved watching him pitch
cliff lee too
@jamesnguyen7069 amen
I don't take any list without Pedro Martinez seriously.
Exactly
Lincecum over Pedro? Dumb.
I assume because he pitched a lot in the 90s they were going with more recent guys ..
Exactly! and Johan Santana prime better than Verlander and Max
The doc had 12/6 hook , fastball command, could frame you up on the box, loved when he started throwing The Rivera cutter after that all star game, now he could jam u up, or get more ground balls.
Kershaw, Randy, Pedro should all be top 5 on every list
People forget CC used to hit tanks with the brewers too lol
Can’t believe cliff forgot Roy
Can't believe both forgot greinke
@@nathanbarnes9373 he’s good and all but not top 6
@@GTMartin4 look at his numbers and his peak he is easily top 6
@@nathanbarnes9373 he definitely is. One of the last breeds of old school pitchers. When he retired he was the active leader in shutouts and complete games. If roy had the team kershaw did he would have close to 250 wins. Roy played on literally the worst team of the early 21st century and still always had a positive win record. One of the most dominant pitchers of his era. Everyone hated squaring up to Roy at the plate.
@@Gdfsandoz I was talking about greinke and his peak being definitely top 6 but I agree with you on roy too if both weren't on such bad teams for most of their careers their numbers like era and wins would look similar to kershaws imo
Cliff: I place an emphasis on record.
Also Cliff: I'm going with Jacob deGrom
Clearly Jake deGrom defies records tho.
LMAO second best pitcher of the 2000’s is buggin. He’s not even top 5 right now. No emphasis on longevity or being a winner I guess.
@@w8ssy Being a winner? Jacob a pitcher is responsible for his own run support? LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
@@god_hand576 so their overall record like Cliff said was in his criteria has nothing to do with being a winner? Okay bud makes sense
L , he shut you down lmaoo
"If he has two of his pitches working for him, its gonna be tough. If he has all three working, we have no shot." I dont remember which opposing manager said this about facing Kershaw but I think its accurate and shows how much respect everyone in the game has for him
Is this 2000’s or 2010’s because im confused. I think they misworded the entire thing.
They said 2000 and beyond in the beginning of the vid
@@declanhickey1533 nah lmao you cant qualify it like that. Its either the 2000’s or the 2010’s. Cant combine the two they arent the same eras. The top 5-6 in the 00’s is very different from the 10’s list
@@zacwoods But thats what they said they were doing in the beginning of the clip, don’t be tryin to argue it with me lmao
@@declanhickey1533 ik im saying thats a horrible qualifier for them to use not you lol
Make your own list and post the link
No Santana?easily the best pitcher of the 00s decade.
Degrom, hard ass slider at 92, fastball at 97 with movement, and definitely one of the best, great that I’ve seen him live with the box seats
deGrom throws 101 lol
Lincecum gettin some love makes me smile. The reason I became a baseball fan.
Pedro is #1. Has by far the lowest FIP (2.92) of decade minimum 1,000 IP
I thought that Pedro would be top for sure
I thought Pedro would be at least top 3 for sure I’d put him at lowest 2
FIP is a fantasy stat lol cmon
The fact that Pedro is not on either list when he had the best pitching season in the history of baseball in 2000 is a complete joke
So we're disrespecting Johan Santana now huh
Agreed; including Lincecum but not including Johan is pretty ridiculous.
Well considering they left off Grienke and Sale idk what to say
This is also a weird segment because instead of doing 1 decade, they’re trying to do two of them
Eh, he's not a hall of famer though. Everyone else on the lists had more longevity. Except for Lincecum, who definitely should not of been included.
Pedro Martinez too, very surprised to not see him.
Kershaw, Holliday, Verlander, Scherzer, Grienke, Sale...Martinez is a close one but all those active guys are going to add more stats and will look better post 2000.
I wanted felix higher. He accumulated the best war through 10 years.. the man who dominated baseball through the stretch. But I agree with the #1
No Felix sucks he only has 169 wins
When was the last time the felix had a good team around him
@@joshfrank794 he never had one, to be honest.
@@ethan3949 I hope you are just trolling with that statement. Otherwise it's a dumbass statement. The reason he only had 169 wins is because he pitched behind bottom 3 offenses every single year and even a historically bad offense in 2012 I believe. If he went 9 innings and gave up no runs their was a pretty good chance he wasn't getting a win. You heard that right. Those teams STRUGGLED to even get 1 run many times.
@@calinator51 y would I be trolling if your team can’t win with you pitching than you’re bad
Even as a diehard Mariners fan in the 90s who got to watch Big Unit every start, Pedro was way ahead of him and other pitchers by miles. He had 4 A+ pitches that he could locate. He put up ridiculously great numbers in a hitters park and in an AL with juiced up stars everywhere. Best pitcher ive ever seen. Randy was absolutely filthy but his knock was at times he had control issues. His control issues are why I also put Maddux ahead of him in the 90s era. In the 2000's era I put Randy Johnson ahead of Pedro because he got better and shined in the postseason as Pedro got older and struggled especially in the postseason against the Yankees.
1.Pedro Martinez
2.Roy Holladay
3. Johan Santana
4.Randy Johnson
5.Roger Clemens
6.Curt Schilling
7. Tim Lincecum
8. Cliff Lee
9. Josh Beckett
10. Felix Hernandez
I watched baseball religiously and honestly Johan, Roy and Pedro were the holy trinity in that era. And to see Johan not get any love truly infuriates me.
This is the real list
The freak was nasty with that spliter curve ball combo, watch a lot of his starts in his prime. I always watch the best pitching matchups while the Cubs suck
Waino won 3 rings went to the world series 5 times and set the record with yadi for most wins with a single catcher I believe. Statistically hes a sneaky candidate
"Emphasis on the wins" Cringe
For real, he really turned the world upside down with that observation
in my opinion halladay would be considered one of the goats if he was on a good team his whole career
Johan Santana for me
There are plenty of great pitchers in the 2000 era that have had great careers, Pedro Martinez, Andy Pettitte, Roy Oswalt, Roy Halladay, Felix Hernandez, Cliff Lee, Johan Santana, etc. Its kind of difficult comparing to players still playing at the moment, probably should be some separation there.
Yup. Shoulda stated 2000s and excluded 2010s. The list is too broad for only a top 6.(wonder why it was 6 and not 10 or 5)
Loving Dan Plesac's Get Smart reference
Cliff Floyd’s list was a lot better but should have included Halladay in there somewhere.
Yea probably bump King Felix for him. Felix not being able to pitch pass 30 hurts his case for Top 6 of the 21st century
Where’s greinke?
Doc has to be #1 he was the last of the last great old school pitchers 71/3, 1 run every start if not a cg
Randy Johnson cannot be placed behind any of these guys. PS: In the post-season it's Madison Bumgarner hands down.
Tim Lincecum. He dominated for 4 years then flamed out. But he was sure fun to watch and root for. He will always be one of my top favorite players, just a tad under Will Clark.
I think plesac nailed it. Mainly for the acknowledgment of Doc Halladay. That man was dominant.
Huge verlander fan, electric stuff , power fastball, power slide piece, and 3 finger change and that change was filthy, but his uncle Charlie deemed him as lord Charles
Woo my favorite pitcher of all time getting some love lord of the locks
Big Unit @ #5? That’s outrageous. He’s a top 5 pitcher ALL TIME!
I believe that Randy Johnson was the greatest left-handed pitcher of all time.
He would dominate any era of baseball. He barely missed being the second man the strike out 5,000 in his career. If just one of his early seasons with Montreal have been a little bit better, he would have had it.
Randy Johnson and Roy holiday were the last complete game pitchers in major league history. Randy Johnson pulled off the unheard of seasons with 300 or more strikeouts and eras around 2:00.
For me its Pedro Martinez, Kershaw, Scherzer, DeGrom, Verlander, Randy Johnson
Best list in the comments. Pedro is my favorite. But with 2000 being the cutoff. Him and Kershaw could be switched and it would still be ok.
DeGrom's cooperstown speech is gonna damn short. Cuz he has no one to credit but himself
I helped him too, so i’ll probably be mentioned
My favorites:
1. Pedro
2. Randy
3. Doc Halladay
4. Kershaw
5. C.C.
Honorable mentions
Johan
Lincecum
Wainwright
King Felix
Chapman
You can argue that Mark Buehrle should have been in the top 5, and you didn't even give him honorable mention? Look at his numbers from 2000 and on, dude is seriously underrated.
@@shauncasey8295 I forgot about him, he was great. Besides, this is a list of my favorites, not the 'best' pitchers of the 2000s
@@tgrt1348 Ok got it. But yes a lot of people forget about him. 5x all-star, 2 no hitters (one of which was perfect game) and a world series win. His numbers are equal to or better than the top six list in the video. I know there were others overlooked also such as Greinke.
Hey Dan update a year later, Verlander is right back in Cy Young contention that is crazy!!!
Sale? I don't see sale anywhere
Rumor has it Adam Vinatieri is going to the Buccaneers with Julian Edelman. 🏈
Top 10 in order Pedro, Kershaw, Johnson, Hernandez, Verlander, Scherzer, Degrom, Grienke, Halloday
Arguably Pedro and Johnson really are lower since this is just supposed to be their 2000's work, I still think they belong in the list though. (Especially Pedro)
2000 was his part 2 of best all-time regular season pitching.
@Danny Chains As I said it's debatable because of the encompassing time period.. That being said Pedro had arguably the best peak for a pitcher, since at least WW2, if not of all time, and the majority of that peak was in the 2000s.
What list is this? It says best pitchers of the 2000s. So is it from 2000-2009 or from 2000-now???
1) Kershaw
2) Roy Halladay
3) Justin Verlander
4) Jacob Degrom
5) Max Scherzer
6) Johan Santana
Where is pedro
1. Pedro
2. R Holiday
3. J Verlander
4. J Santana
5. R Johnson
6. CC Sabathia
The list is for 2000's not 2010's
@@SaberFate you got a point, I love your list too
Some of these pitchers got their start in the 2010s.
Well they did say “from 2000 and beyond”
Yeah they messed up the title and the name of the segment. Should’ve been best pitchers of 21st century so far.
Scherzer is the MLB version of Drew Brees. Reliably dominant even in the twilight of his career.
Max ain’t a choke artist like brees tho
Um, hello Zach Grenkie anyone? With over 200 wins and 2 700+ strikeouts and nasty control? And Tim Linsicum got in over him?? What are we doing people
How does Cliff Floyd NOT rank Doc? I think Plesiac's list is better. I would have ranked them Halladay/ Kershaw/ Scherzer/ Verlander/ Linculm and Hernandez.
DOC was dominant for ten years.
How do you put Lincecum over Greinke, Pedro, Oswalt, Lee?
Experts my ass
Sabathia over Max?! Right...ok...lol
Here is a list with actual numbers.
1. Clayton Kershaw (2.45 ERA, 2597 Strikeouts, 157 ERA+, 3 CY Youngs, 1 MVP, Top 5 in CY Young Voting 7x)
2. Max Scherzer (3.19 ERA, 2869 Strikeouts, 132 ERA+, 3 CY Youngs, Top 5 in CY Young Voting 7x)
3. Justin Verlander (3.33 ERA, 3013 Strikeouts, 129 ERA+, 2 CY Youngs, 1 MVP, Top 5 in CY Young Voting 8x)
4. Randy Johnson (3.34 ERA, 2182 Strikeouts, 137 ERA+, 3 CY Youngs, Top 5 in CY Young Voting 4x)
5. Jacob Degrom (2.54 ERA, 1433 Strikeouts, 154 ERA+, 2 CY Youngs,Top 5 in CY Young Voting 3x)
6. Roy Halladay (3.38 ERA, 2117 Strikeouts, 131 ERA+, 2 CY Youngs,Top 5 in CY Young Voting 7x)
Just for context here is the rest of my list:
7. Johan Santana (3.20 ERA, 1988 Strikeouts, 136 ERA+, 2 CY Youngs, Top 5 in CY Young Voting 5x)
8. Zach Grienke (3.38 ERA, 2742 Strikeouts, 124 ERA+, 1 CY Youngs,Top 5 in CY Young Voting 4x)
9. Felix Hernandez (3.42 ERA, 2524 Strikeouts, 117 ERA+, 1 CY Youngs, Top 5 in CY Young Voting 4x)
1. Clayton Kershaw
2. Justin Verlander
3. Max Scherzer
4. Felix Hernandez
5. Roy Halladay
Honorable Mentions: C.C. Sabathia, Zack Greinke, Roy Oswalt
Right now:
1. Jacob deGrom
2. Gerrit Cole
3. Trevor Bauer
4. Max Scherzer
5. Yu Darvish/Clayton Kershaw
No Madbum?
I know right? If we’re gonna talk about winning, how do you not have a guy who won three World Series?
@@chrissugidono3929 and who has the best postseason numbers for a starting pitcher in the last 20 years!
tell dan to teach his nephew how to take off a shirt
I personally would of had Zack Greinke over Tim Lincecum.
If they didn’t have Randy Johnson it’s make more sense, but since he’s in, where the heck is Pedro?! Both pitches until 2009. Both had their last really good season in 2005.
If you’re talking more 2005 and beyond, they should’ve mentions johan Santana for sure. Also cliff lee, zack greinke, David price, Chris Sale, gerrit cole, even kluber for a 5 year stretch.
I have no problem with any of the pitchers on this list. I have a problem with a "2000s" list (which appears to be tracking 2005ish-now) not taking into account post-season performance. How do you put Lincecum on a list like this and not have Bumgarner? That's all I'm saying.
Randy Johnson and Pedro Martinez are the top two
I am baffled... Where is Bartolo on this list?
Are you telling me that you wouldn't take Colon as one of your 6 pitchers if you were a GM?
I’m a Yankee fan but Cliff Lee was very dominant.
Dans List is perfect
Just want to give honorable mention to Adam wainwright who won 19 and 20 games in 2009 and 2010 and 2012 to 2013 and also going 17-7 in 2022 at like age 40!!!!
Sorry 2013 and 2014
I love lincecum but him over greinke, cliff lee, mussina, price or Johan?
So Bumgarner helps SF win 3 World Series Championships and now he's forgotten? Is R Westbrook better than K Leonard or K Durant because he averaged a triple double a few times during the regular season? Baseball analytics has to evolve and take into account the importance of playoff games.
Exactly! To not factor in playing to win or go home, you basically are saying you don’t care about competing when it really matters. To your point about Madbum, Lincecum deserves to be ranked even higher with his post-season numbers.
If anyone says wins for pitchers are valuable they should be taken off of TV immediately.
Yep, losing record is better
OMG!! In this top they both ignored Johan Santana JAJAJAJAJA 2 Cy young (not to mention that 2 were stolen), 1 triple crown and the best pitcher of his time.
Haven’t finished the list yet, but Pedro #1 for both guys. 💯
Process of elimination, I knew it’d be Kershaw.
For me 2000 >
1. Kershaw
2. Verlander
3. Scherzer
4. Grenkie
5. Halladay
6. Santana
Pitchers' wins don't matter*
If you go by peak Lincecum had an amazing peak but if you go by the whole of the 2000's he doesn't belong anywhere on this list. here's my ranking for the top pitchers of the century so far, not by peak but by overall production.
1. Clayton Kershaw
2. Justin Verlander
3. Max Scherzer
4. CC Sabathia
5. Roy Halladay
6. Randy Johnson
7. Johan Santana
8. Pedro Martinez
9. Felix Hernandez
10. Zach Greinke
11. Mark Buehrle
12. Jacob DeGrom
13. Chris Sale
14. David Price
15. Cole Hamels
16. Roy Oswalt
17. Maddison Bumgarner
18. Bartolo Colon
19. Adam Wainwright
20. Tim Hudson
21. Cliff Lee
22. Andy Pettit
23. Mike Mussina
24. John Lester
25. Gerritt Cole
26. Curt Schilling
27. Roger Clemens
28. Chris Carpenter
29. Jake Peavy
30. John Lackey
All these players had better careers then Tim Lincecum during the 00's. Tim is absolutely one of my favorites growing up, I have his jersey which is more then I can say for all but 3 other players on this list but he didn't do it long enough to be up there with these guys. (let me know if I missed anybody or if you have any problems with my rankings)
Josh Beckett? Johan Santana? Cliff Lee?
King Felix for Hall of Fame
Gimme some Roy Oswalt
I understand why they mean. By 2000s and up. But let's not forget roger clemens put some serious numbers 2000-2005 even led the league in era twice. But no argument on number 1.
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who was click baited by the title.
Pedro? Johan?
Pedro was undoubtedly better than Tim Lincecum and CC Sabathia lol. Plesacs list is a joke
@@stevejones5075 yeah he musta been thinking 2010s but then he put Halladay and Cliff said Randy Johnson. Ion get it, but it’s their fav I guess.
I wonder if they would keep Justin Verlander 4th if they were doing this this year instead of a year ago. 😀
Mariano Rivera has to be on this list. He isn't a starter, but he has to be on this list.
There is no way Felix is better than Rivera, I don’t know why he’s not there.
He is literally the best closer
Degrom is hands down best pitcher right now. But he has not been there for that long. That’s why he’s not really in this list because all of these guys have paved a way for the pitchers of today
Cliff's list confuses me. deGrom didn't debut until 2014
I guess we’re not including Pedro Martinez?
Peak effectiveness via Three True Outcomes Dominance, Starters:
Kershaw
Pedro
Randy
Scherzer
DeGrom
Verlander
Bieber
Koufax
Sale
Lincecum
Cole
Bauer
Syndergaard
Arrieta
Ryan
Glasnow
Snell
J.R. Richard
Sam McDowell
Clemens
Is this your personal list of top guys in the 2000s?
@@nathanbarnes9373 Yeah because Koufax and Ryan and Richard and McDowell all pitched then even if they were dead.
I mean read the first line.
You want to add Tom Griffin and Bob Veale, I’m all in.
where is cliff lee
Cliff Lee & Roy Halladay should be on the list
keep this shit coming i love it
?????
Andy Petite.
Pedro Martinez.
Eric Gagne.
Mariano Rivera.
Fernando Valenzuela.
Tim lincicum
#6, "I'm gonna go with Tim Lincecum"
And im gonna go to another video bye
how did pedro martinez not make this list? neither did mussina, schilling, rivera, buhrle, clemens which is crazy
No love for pedro how tf
Hes 90's
@@benjaminjohnson2022 mid 90s and also 2000s. Same can be said for Randy Johnson and he was picked. They both peaked in the early 2000s.
Love pedro but 2000s > not complete not even 1500 IP ...
Guys he played until 2009 and dominated the first half of the decade...
2000s and 2010s? How is Randy Johnson and Roy Halladay(RIP) mentioned and not Pedro? From 2000 to 2003 he was by far the best and pitched one of the best seasons of all time.(the other was him in 99)
Degrom still has to shine some more years to have a place in Cooperstown IMO. Kershaw???? he can retire now if he wants to, he's got a place in Cooperstown for sure.
Degrom, verlander, kershaw, lincecum, scherzer, wainwright
Johan Santana continues to be the most forgotten and disrespected pitcher ever IMO.
If Roy Halladay isn't number 1 these guys need to rethink everything they do. cause the guy dominated the AL east with against those stacked Yankee and Red Sox teams. even after he got traded to the Phillies he dominated the NL threw a no no in his first ever playoff appearance and World Series champion
edit: Kershaw is not a 2000s pitcher 😂😂😂 and no diss to Kersh cause he's a stud but I'm taking Doc any day no matter the condition over Kersh
Kershaw is the best lefty of all time besides maybe Koufax or Johnson
Neither is Scherzer. They're talking best since the turn of the century.
Give me a 3 yest stretch or even a single season of Doc's career that was better then Kershaws... your a fucking moron if you take him higher... many people think Kershaw is a top 5 if not top 3 pitcher ever due to his numbers
It’s 2000 to present. If it was 2000-‘09. Yeah Halladay has an argument.
Buddy, you’re entire comment just reeks of meaningless conjecture and personal feelings, there is literally zero statistical justification for preferring Doc over Kershaw no matter what. Kershaw blows him out of the water in ERA (not close), Kershaw strikes out wayyyyy more batters which means u gotta worry less abt potential defense mishaps costing outs, he gives up much less hits than doc ever did, and in 2013-2016, particularly 2014, Kershaw May have been the best pitcher ever. I’m not a dodgers fan but just someone who can look at objective data and say yep, this dudes the best. If you don’t like the eye test of those basic stats, Kershaw kills Doc in ERA+ which accounts for the average pitcher at the time and ballparks so itd account for your stuff about the AL East, this is just a cringe take man,
Regarding the 2000s stuff, you’re comment that Kershaw isn’t a 2000s is pretty stupid considering the majority of both lists in the video consisted of players who’s careers have been in the 2010s, obviously they actually meant 21st century