Escaping the system for rock climbers, part 1.
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- Опубліковано 1 кві 2020
- In this first part we look at escaping the system on in reach anchors, both on a sling belay and on a rope belay. The video is quite weighty, as there's quite a few steps involved and I wanted to do it justice. Includes some close up video of tying off a belay plate and Italian hitch.
Please do fire away with any questions...
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You're an excellent communicator. This was so clearly explained compared to my text book.
Very kind, thank you!
These are worth watching just to add some fun color to stateside climbing banter. "bits of gear", "crack on with it", "your kit mate", "win back gear - which is ace". "screw gate", "beelay" and so on.
brilliantly explained. Much clearer than the mountain training textbook!!
The combination of Italian hitch and slip knot is also known as the Münter - mule knot. Great video!
Excellent at going through the steps slowly so we can see. However, I almost never belay the second off my waist anymore for that exact reason. If the belay is off the anchor you are not part of the system and it is much easier to tie off the second and effect a rescue. All said and done ...Nice job! Because you know some out there will need these skills!
Having learned escape techniques in the early seventies when belay system was body belay.
I was delighted to come across your channel. Many thanks, keep them coming.
Mac
Thanks for doing this Jez, a great clear demonstration. It’s ages since I’ve practiced this and now you’ve inspired me to get into the garage and refresh the skills. 👍👍😀😀
Brilliant. Video was clear and precise. Ive been practising this in the garage so its good to know I've been doing it right. Thanks for putting on the series of videos, very helpful.
wow. that's a whole book of knowledge right there.
Thank you JB. As a rock climbing instructor your videos have been so helpful thanks. Hopefully I'll be able to get back teaching friends & family after my spinal OP, as well as enjoying climbing too. Vic
Hi JB! Happy 2024!
Just recounting these videos now for some winter learning and I wonder; do all the same steps apply if climbing on half ropes. I.e. are all the prusiks tied around both ropes and Italian hitches using both ropes? Best wishes🎉
Oh man, I've never thought about how I would actually go about escaping the system should I ever need it. Great explanation, gonna practise this to feel more confident about any potential escape-the-system scenatios! Thanks!
Ace stuff... Keep em coming! 👍
Thanks!
Well explained. You teach and demonstrate in a military way... Merci beaucoup. :)
You're welcome :)
Loving your style and personality. Makes a change from the American High Five macho rambling vids swamping t'internet.
Cheers!
Great video
Brilliant clear explanation and demonstration. Thanks JB.
Glad it was helpful!
Always great instructional videos. Keep up the super work!
It's a fairly technical one so fire away with any questions!
A good question was asked below: "Why is a belay device tied off differently to an Italian Hitch?"
The answer is to do with the braking positions. On an ATC style device the braking position is dead rope behind the belay device - so we maintain that bu doing the slippery hitch around the back bar of the krab. On an Italian, the braking position is dead rope parallel with the live rope, so we tie off in front of the hitch around the rope.
I shall chat about it in Part 2....!
awesome vid!! well worth practicing, i was board one night and decided to see if i could get off a belay device while dingaling on a rope from the loft hatch in my house so i could climb back up it, was worth doing just to see if i could do it, it wasnt easy but i managed it then got back on the belay again to abb down the rope again found the most usefull bit if kit i have ever got is my shunt, also use it for abbing back down off climbs as if you let go off the rope you just stop dead.
have to try this now as well.
Just got in from the north face of the garden after a bit of practise. Got in a bit of a tangle when I had built the belay with the rope because the rope ended up in the wrong place when I came to tie off the Italian hitch - a layering issue which I managed to sort out. It showed the importance of getting out there and doing it rather than letting you do all the work Jez.
This has been great to re-motivate me and keep focused, with the goal of getting my RCI assessment done later on in the year. Unfortunately the plan for shadowing and gaining more, wider group experience has gone out of the window for the moment. However the family and I are healthy and being able to get on with different things and this we have been putting off. Keep up the great work.
Being healthy is the main thing hey?!
Good to hear you've been out practicing! Things like this really do need that practical element.
JB Mountain Skills Just to see what would happen I tried a kleimhiest instead of the french p. It seemed to work OK. Is there a reason why the french p is recommended?
Jeremy Ballard a kleimheist wont release under load, so when you’ve got a person on the end of it and it’s fully weighted, it has to be a french prussic. Otherwise you’ll get into a dead end.
JB Mountain Skills I did get it to release, but I only had my lightweight 13 tear old daughter on the end😁
Really clear and informative! Any videos on climbing in parallel and Series and the rope management of this would be much appreciated
Cheers! They're on the to do list :)
@@JBMountainSkills Wicked thanks!.. I have a good idea how to do it but learning good rope management would be ace. Worked through all your escaping the system vids today.. super helpful, thanks again!
Brilliant videos on your page. I’ve learnt so much this week. I know this video is about escaping the system but have you done one with trying to get back into the system after escaping? Thanks
Glad you've liked them! I don't think you ever would get back into the system really. If you're going to carry on I'd just clip in to whatever strong point I've left myself with, eg a master point on a sling setup.
Belaying from anchor with ATC "guide mode" would make things waaaay more simpler.
Yup! It’s mentioned in the series of videos.
Sadly it’s not always the appropriate method to use.
@@JBMountainSkills Yeah, I seen once how my climbing partner pass out for 10 sec with no reason. Luckily that was on ground and safe conditions. Since then I always keep in mind that there is no guaranty that it's not going to happen when partner is belaying me or anyone else. Redundancy!!!!
a lot of climbs in the Peak district will have one large boulder that someone may walk around to make a belay with the rope from. Could you do a video involving an escape from that scenario please?
Part 2 will have the solution!
Great vid Jez, just for anyone who may be wondering, why do you do a slippery hitch through the carabiner for the ATC and only through the rope for the italian? You can definitely explain that better than I or anyone else!
A very good question, highlights the benefit of having people in front of you to ask such pertinent questions in real life! I shall put the reason in the pinned post and address it in Part 2.
Nice one, I knew vaguely how to do it, but this is a really clear video and cleared up a lot of the fog!
Are out of reach anchors coming up?
i think that's part 2
Indeed, part 2, coming Sunday or Monday I think...
Hi JB.
Love your channel. My go to place for knowledge.
This will be my first season on trad, and I been going through a lot of your videos during winter for training indoors.
I have a couple of questions/thoughts on this video/scenario:
In this video you have a “in reach” anchor, built with slings. Why do you chose to belay of your harness?
My first thought would be to set up the belay using the ATC guide mode!? I’m sure there is pros and cons here. And I sure I’m missing a bit.
Escaping from the systems (in reach sling-anchor) with guide mode-belay seems super easy. Why choose to belay of the harness if there’s a risk for problematic/risky escape?
Saw the part2 video and that scenario makes all sense, belaying from harness, since you need to use your rope for the off reach anchor.
Would be super happy if you could elaborate a little about my questions.
In the mean time I will practice both scenarios.
All the best,
Glad you like the channel!
Best thong to do is watch this vid I reckon: ua-cam.com/video/rbjaknk12QQ/v-deo.html
It talks about direct v indirect. Please do fire away with any other questions if its unclear though :)
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Wow this is veeeery complicated compared to just use The ATC guide in progress capture mode from the master point. Still, as always interesting to see different systems but what is advantage of the system? I do not see any.
Morning JB. Do you have the video of the set up needed to abseil down to the climber?
Amazing channel by the way! My favourite on UA-cam.
Glad you like 'em!
I have indeed.. ua-cam.com/video/fkrX4dydgeU/v-deo.html
Loved learning these skills as I'm new to climbing. Are you using pre-sewn prusik loops, or just some cordelette tied in a loop? Trying to get some ideas about what I should have on my rack.
Glad you like 'em!
The ones in this video are sewn ones, Simond in this case.
Hi JB... Great videos, I am enjoying them a lot and looking forward to practicing! Looking at your website, there are lots of interesting courses on offer for after the lock-down is over, which is great! A longer question (sorry).... When I belay on multi-pitch, assuming not using an ATC in "guide mode", I would usually like to change the direction of the pull by belaying through a carabiner above my harness (possibly on the shelf), This means that the pull from a struggling/fallen climber below pulls me up rather then crushing me downwards, also it seems to spread the load better between the anchor and myself, obviously this does load the anchor a bit more assuming your not on a hanging belay (in which case, I don't think it would load it more??), I also find it more comfortable for flaking the rope over the lanyard and having a short point set up between me and the climber in case the new leader falls directly above the anchor when they climb through.... I notice that you show all your videos belaying directly with a downward pull on your harness.. Is there a reason for this? Is the way I set up my system described above considered safe?? Does any of that make sense?
Cheers!
Great question! What you're suggesting is a solid idea, it's much more common in Europe, it's not something we do much in the UK. It's kind of more important to consider when you're belaying the person on the next pitch and that's where you're method becomes more useful.
Excellent video! Do the same steps apply when belaying a leader?
In principle yes, there'll likely be some more steps though...
Enjoyed these series videos but a quick question. In all of them you are demonstrating on a single, so how should this apply to double ropes? Do you just go with one of the ropes or do you tie both ropes off as one (bulky and awkward) or replicate on each strand (complicated and heavy on gear)? Cheers, really like your content, good find!
Good question. All the videos are on one for simplicity. The answer is a little annoying... It depends! I'd quite like to use both half ropes if possible for the extra safely, especially if there are any edges at all, but that might not always be practical.
Great vid -clear and well explained. 1 question - if your emergency fallback when using rope to the anchors, is to then create a a centralised loop with a sling, why not just use that method all the time? Cheers.
Good question! I usually do set up with a sling if I can, but only as it's quick and simple. Often I've used the rope because it's the quickest way, and building out of slings in that situation may need a couple of them or be a bit faffy. When rebuilding the belay out of slings it might not be quite as neat and simple as in the video.
I wouldn't ever set up predicting having to do some sort of rescue (unless I was on my MCI assessment again!)
JB Mountain Skills that makes sense- thanks for the reply.
You're being very productive - plenty great videos on your site. What are your thoughts on David Fasulo's 'Self Rescue' book that recommends a crab clipping the tied off belay plate (loop) to the live rope? Unnecessary?
Cheers!
Good question. Personally I think clipping it back is overkill from a safety point of view. There's no way a properly tied off belay plate would slip or fail. I don't suppose it does much harm though!
I fully understand the process but not the reasoning behind replacing the use of the rope as the belay, with a sling? 🤔
It means you can create a system where the rope is retrievable.
can you use the clove hitch instead of Italian hitch ?
Good question. It would work, but I want everything to be releasable under load, so I think the Italian Hitch is better.
ahh i was hoping for a video to help me quit working and climb full time... wrong system 🥴
Ahhh sorry about that 😂
Hey JB, am loving the content, extremely helpful! I have a question regarding escaping the system in an RCI scenario: If I am managing a top-rope set-up and I am connected to a separate loop from my belay plate, is there any reason I should go through a system escape as demonstrated in this video other than that I need my belay device for the abseil? In short, I suppose what I'm asking is if I'm not directly part of the system is it cool to just tie off the belay device and then go about setting up abseil?
Apologies that was very long winded! Also, seen as your content and answers have proved such a great resource, is there any way I can support what you do? Patreon or Merch' or something?
Cheers!
Hiya! Glad you've liked the videos!
No, you're absolutely right, you wouldn't need to do all this, as you are already "out of the system". In an RCI setting I'd avoid getting your belay plate back and just use an Italian hitch to abseil on, if you didn't have a spare device lying around!
There's T-Shirts on the website, or you can send good coffee to me any time, address on my website!
Happy climbing :)
@@JBMountainSkills Brilliant stuff! Cheers again, will be recommending your content too for sure!
Good video but my concentration was distracted by the woolly hat and wondering why. Don’t you have heating in the house?
😂 it was covid lockdown, was probs trying to save money by not putting the heating on!
What's the difference between a slippery hitch and a half hitch?
You can pull a slippery hitch out under load.
a slippery hitch is also known as a slip knot
As a guide this sort of thing raised a lot of questions with me and my old team. The team was from all over and it was only the british and me (irish) that would ever really belay from a harness on a top belay/multipitch set up. Judging from how tricky this can be is there a real reason you think harness top belaying should be done that isn't a less than suitable anchor or speed? And finally for guiding would you ever belay from your harness if there were more than one person?
It's interesting isn't it. My thoughts are that the British kept this method of belaying to be part of the system and absorb some of the forces when the second falls off, to protect our trad belays. It seems like slowly this is evolving, with more people direct belaying, but it's still "the norm" I guess.
Obviously it's a right pain to escape the system, but then again, very rare to actually need to do it.
Would I ever belay two off my harness? Never say never and all that, but out of choice, no I don't.
@@JBMountainSkills I didn't mean two off your harness more so if there is another customer there. In case something happens to them also. But on the first point yeah I can only think of protection anchors as a reason for this other than it being the "British trad way" and people just accepting it without questioning it
Thank you for this series, I've been practicing at home all week. I saw you used an italian hitch while escaping the system in some of these ''escape the system'' video and I was wondering why not use a clove hitch instead since it is more secure? Thank you again!
I like the Italian / Munter, as it's releasable under load, so it could in some circumstances make life loads easier!