The Heartbreaking Tale Of Beckett Mariner | Star Trek: Lower Decks
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
- Let's Just Get into it
Trek Chapters
00:00 Introduction
00:15 Nuanced Trek
00:45 Mariner
01:22 Nuanced Trek
02:00 Tragic Character
04:10 Conclusion
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Lower Decks is a better, deeper, and more faithful Trek series than a lot of people give it credit for. Glad to see you cover this.
Super underrated show. It gets dismissed by many because it's an animated comedy.
it does a lot of world building which is good
@@joeswanson733Oh yes, it fills in so many details about The Next Generation period of the Federation.
Only when compared to Picard, Discovery and SNW.
Compared to all the other Trek that came before, NO.
@@RensuneLower Decks is a great show by any standard. Also, this is Tilly and Reno and Stamets-Culber slander and I will not stand for it.
Mariner mentioned that she grew up on a Star ship, that and the fact that she and her mother know Riker on first name basis gave way to the theory that she was one of the children onboard the Enterprise.
Funnily enough the one off Joke of Q trying to mess with her and Mariner just telling him to go away kinda leads credit to it too, because it implies she is used to him and honestly it would be in character for him just go entertaining the children while Picard deals what ever Mess Q put the Enterprise in again.
If we assume that she joined Star Fleet Academy at the youngest possible age then she would most likely not have been at Wolf 359 but would most likely hear about it and the consequences.
She would most likely relative fresh from the Academy leading up or during the Dominion War, basically the time when Star Fleet needed personal to fight and fast, so she and other recruts would have been pretty much been thrown into the deep end.
As for the confusion about her age:
It stems mostly from Boimler saying they are the same age but i would like to point out that Star Fleet seems to have a pretty generous window when you can sign up. Boimler simply didn't join Star Fleet at a young age as Mariner (which might have saved him from a lot of trauma)
That would be an interesting twist if true. Boimler, Tendi, and Rutherford would probably need out and would be why she never mentioned it.
I'm also very convinced by the Enterprise theory - the friendship with Riker, everything she knows about key lore, and her opinion of rank obsessed officers (likely including her mother, potentially her dad). Galaxy Class would have been the ideal posting for a husband and wife serving together with a young child, and a current admiral likely could have served on a flag ship
It’s also very possible that Mariner straight out of the academy ended up in the thick of the dominion war but Boimler was instead put on an easy ship away from the fighting plus the join up age difference kept them out of being in the same classes years. Mariner may have even been fast tracked though the academy as she grew up on a star ship. We find out that Sisco wanted Jake to start learning from star fleet officers because his first thought was Jake would end up in star fleet. Elnor was getting early teaching from Raffi so they probably expect Mariner to just already be good at just about everything. They put cadets on ships so why not use that as a way to fast track getting more soldiers for the war.
I'd be real interested to see her interact with Geordi, who we know is another Starfleet brat and compare notes.
Many of the characters we've seen across the franchise do *not* seem to have family ties to Starfleet. Some do, like Kirk, Troi, Riker, Geordi, Wesley, Paris, and Janeway but I don't know how much exploration of how that affected them there has been. Then again, I haven't seem any of the new Trek series, so maybe my information is simply outdated.
One of the more interrsting things about a series centered around the Acadeny could be an exploration of different chsracters' motivations for joining. Some, like Picard and O'Bruen want to break away. Others are Starfleet brats or have some sort of personal role model in Starfleet, like Worf. Still others are young, idealistic, and eager, as Mariner evidently once was.
I don't include Worf in the "Starfleet brat" category even though we know his adoptive father was an officer because I'm pretty sure it's been stated, or at leadt heavily implied thst he was older and near the end of his career at the time and retired soon after and that's how Worf ended up growing up on Gault rather than a starship.
I'm not saying your right, I am saying in the episode where alien's were taking kids, there is one in the shot that has the same complexion and hair style tho. looks like a pre teen.
While the Dominion War broke Beckett we also should look at what built her up. From her connection to Riker claiming to be her mentor to her mother comparing people who annoy her to Geordie Le Forge gives a pretty good indication Beckett grew up on the Enterprise, heck for all we know her martial arts ability could be attributed to her training under Worf for all we know (I don't know about you but I find the image of little Beckett repeatedly owning little Alexander in sparring sessions very entertaining). That means she would have been on the most Golden Age of Golden Age ships giving her a bright outlook that would be all the more painful to be ripped apart in the Dominion War and having her standards of officers to serve under set by the Enterprise-D, something very few if any crews in the fleet could match up to.
beckett is starfleet royalty. father is a 4 star admiral or by TNG era maybe a captain/1 star admiral. mother is a captain probably a lt commander during TNG era. she probably seen all kind of offices growing up which didn't help.
It's also been noted she was demoted back to ensign before the pilot of lower decks. There have been at least 2 on screen instances of her resisting a promotion. My theory is: she likely had to make a command decision that left her traumatized and not wanting to be in command ever again
yeah like her entire company died in the dominion war. that would fit the bill.
@@joeswanson733 According to dialogue in season 5, Boimler is at least 25 in 2381 and he and Mariner are apparently relatively close in age (season 1 dialogue). So Boimler decided to join Starfleet Academy a few years late (this is all but canon - he graduated in 2380 and the Cerritos was his first posting out of the Academy) and Mariner probably joined a couple years early (we know that 16-year-olds can join the Academy because Wesley applied for the first time at age 16). So Mariner has been an officer in commission probably since she was 20 (circa 2375), just in time to get her sanity put through the meat grinder during the vicious fighting of the last year of the war (the Dominion, as many fascist regimes do, got infinitely nastier once they were on the back foot).
I have to agree, it would change her, and seeing the kind of mental stress the commanders went through would be enough to make her want to stay a lower rank too.
my theory is that she was a cadet during wolf 359
she served in the DW in all the hot zones even did a stint on DS9
she was made platoon commander in ground combat missions and probably saw a lot of fighting. could be like in saving private ryan where she lost her entire platoon or company in a engagement which scarred her for life.
or did time in ship combat where they had to abandon ship multiple times engaging the dominion in battles like chinkota or operation return or battle of cardassia and see her ship blow up in front of her eyes.
scary stuff.
Being a veteran I can relate to Marnier, using humor as to not jade oneself or others mariner is a good representation of what some war vets
my theory is that she was a cadet during wolf 359
she served in the DW in all the hot zones even did a stint on DS9
she was made platoon commander in ground combat missions and probably saw a lot of fighting. could be like in saving private ryan where she lost her entire platoon or company in a engagement which scarred her for life.
or did time in ship combat where they had to abandon ship multiple times engaging the dominion in battles like chinkota or operation return or battle of cardassia and see her ship blow up in front of her eyes.
scary stuff.
She could have been a dependent on both the Enterprise and then DS9 while her mother served, and then gone through the academy at the same time as Nog.
Don't forget she was having drinks in the ship's lounge when her best friend was FREAKING EATEN BY HER OWN BOYFRIEND and Mariner got covered in her blood!
Welp. This video is bound for a followup or revision. Because it wasn't JUST the Dominion War that scarred her for life.
It was preceded by the devastating loss of her role model from the Academy, and not having enough time to grieve before being swept up in the war.
If, as is concluded in the video, she grew up on Enterprise her friend from the academy died under the command (bjoran spy mission as a prisoner of a cradasian double agent) of the captain she drew pictures of for captain Picard day. She sufferd O' Brian levels of trauma.
Starfleet owe mariner big time, she is sort of The Anti-Hero hero of the franchise, while not as psychotic as Sisko she deep down cares about Starfleet even though she pretends she doesn't.
owe her what?
Compensation for the mental damage she has to her well being.@@joeswanson733
The way this is set up, Mariner looks like an idealist who lives in a very uncaring realist universe and who is using every mentral defense mechanism in existence to hold it together. I think she is so disillusioned with Starfleet that she desperately wants out, but simultaneously does not want to disappoint her parents. Remaining lower decks is the only way she can be in Starfleet but not have the full burden of being an officer.
Agreed but she has personal demons too. Whether they manifested when her dad stepped in during her court martial or if they’ve always been there (due to the expectations, a dash of Tom Paris’ issues) is hard to say. And she likely served on the Defiant - it’s not like we saw even half of the crew.
The fact there are a number of people that won’t watch this show says more about them than about the show. I’m a fan that goes all the way back to when TOS premiered and have watched every episode since plus numerous fan films. As much a she appears to be a total misfit I agree she is a very complex character. Unfortunately as you say Star Fleet really isn’t that great an organisation in some regards. Great video keep them coming.
Boy the most recent episode showed that you were close, ironically enough.
It seems like you were right on the money with the ninth episode of season 4 basically confirming this characterization.
Either stay in the lower ranks and be the most likely one to get killed or rise up and get subjected to an ungodly amount of trauma.
The duality of being in Starfleet.
i'd rather rank up. better food and quarters.
I love that this show actually addresses class and labor relations.
One thing I've been wondering for a while is: How old is Mariner? The show gives the impression, both from how she acts and how she looks, that she's in her 20s. But she's been promoted and demoted multiple times, so she must be older than the other lower deckers. Not to mention, Ramsey and Mariner were in the same class, and Ramsey is a Captain. She has to be in her mid 30s at least. Kirk was 34, and he's supposed to be the youngest captain in history (unless you count Tryla Scott, whose age is never disclosed). Incidentally, Tawny Newsome is now 40, which is more in line with the age Mariner should be by now. Newsome would have been 36-37 when the show started.
36 was Mariners age at the start in season 1 but I don't know how time works in the show relative to our time. So I don't think Mariner and Bolmer age as fast as their real world counter parts.
@@AllyMonsters with Star Trek medicine what it is, the "normal" effects of aging can be put off for a while too. Dr. McCoy was 137 at Encounter at Farpoint when he saw the D off.
@@sailingspark9748 That's kinda depressing then. Poor Scotty has like 70 years living alone after his TNG episode then.
My suspicion is that Mariner is about 28 at the start of the show (2380) and 30 now, with an absolute lower bound of 25-26.
Here are my data points:
0: Jack Quaid is 31, which makes him definitely several years older than his character. Thus, age gap between performer and character isn't a problem for anyone in Lower Decks. Since Lower Decks is moving forward at about 1 year per 26 episodes, this gap is only going to continue to widen at about .62 of a year per year.
1: Boimler had his 25th birthday party on the Cerritos, so he was likely 24 in the first episode of the series, shortly after he came aboard (S4E5).
2: Mariner and Boimler are close enough in age that Boimler has the two of them mentally classified as "like, the same age" (S1E2).
3: Because Boimler is only 6 months out of the Academy in the first episode, and from 1 and 2, we know he started at the Academy around age 20 and graduated around age 24.
4: Mariner MIGHT have joined the academy early around age 16 (Starfleet Academy allows first-year cadets as young as 14), meaning their relatively small gap in ages (probably around 4 years) means a very large gap in service time (probably around 8 years).
If at the start of the series, Mariner is 28 and Boimler is 24, which I suspect are the correct ages, and Mariner started at the Academy at 16 (conjecture but I believe it's reasonable conjecture) and Boimler at 20 (all but canon), their gap in is 8 years, and Mariner graduated in 2372, just in time to get her sanity blasted by the Dominion War.
@@katherineberger6329 This assumes she served at the start of the war. She just as easily coulda served ONLY in the last year (hell even the last 6 months) of the war and got traumatized from just that. Starfleet probably needed to send more people out there and Mariner got thrown into the deep end.
It seems to me like more than a few writers for Lower Decks have some experience in an actual Navy. There is a LOT of Navy-esque humor.
AS for Mariner herself, she really does come across as a disgruntled/jaded Sailor. I have WORKED with someone exactly like Mariner.
My own personal fan theory is that Mariner was going to be the senior-most cadet for the USS Valiant when she got into a serious scuffle in Scottsdale Arizona which resulted in her missing the boat, as such became overcome with survivors guilt hearing about its loss, and worse, thinking that if she was in command that she would have made the exact same decisions as Cadet Watters who was only slightly behind Mariner in grade and similar in attitude. Add to it the Dominion War and all that stress and doubt festered in Mariner's subconscious resulting in her constantly trying to get out of being put into situations where she would have to command.
I think she grew up on the -D. Carol and/or her dad could have been assigned to the only starship in the Trek Murder Galaxy with children on board. I’m not sure but her interaction with Riker make me wonder if he would’ve been her funcle. She could also be scarred from “episode of the week” trauma, and we assume her parents are divorced because of… something.
There were children on other ships. Jake Sisko was at Wolf 359.
given how high ranking her father is i doubt her father was on the ENT-D at least he was a captain during the TNG era with his own ship. the mom being on D with mariner makes sense.
Her parents are not divorced. In the episode involving Captain Freeman and Admiral Freeman The Admiral calls her Carolbear.
She also did gray ops with klingons.
Maybe she's a similar age to nog, there are instances where cadets as part of their training serve on ships. She might have been on the surviving ship from wolf 359 as a cadet
if she was just 20 during wolf 359 (2367) she would be at least 33-34 during LD.
@@joeswanson733 that age makes sense
@@kamenwaticlients it would make her older than harry kim and Wesley crusher
You know, with the DS9 part, it's possible that she got dragged into that before she ended up in Starfleet with her mother being the one heavily "officially" involved when you consider the Federation's policies about families at that time. Having her be between Jake/Nog's age bracket to the point that she would be just to young for them to want to be around her much seems about right there.
Advanced placement in the academy due to being pushed and being talented in training courses available on the holodecks/holosuites.
Being stuck dealing with the dominion war there...perhaps having also survived Wolf 359 as a civilian child there, or on one of the ships that weren't there in time for the battle but arrived shortly after the Enterprise did.
Perhaps even being a cadet with the all hands on deck nightmare of the Battle of Sector 01 with the Borg, pushed to fill space or be part of a crew on outdated training ships that were hastily reconfigured with real weapons and such...
I'd say too young for wolf359, but she could have been one of the kids aboard the enterprise at the time.
Age-wise I'd say, at a guess, that she's more a contemporary of Nogs and as such transferred to DS9 at the same time as him. From mentions here and there we know that at some point (based on s01e02) that she did run some grey-op missions with some klingons but the nature of these missions isn't really known (grey op could be syndicate investigation, following up on the changling-orian syndicate alliance which would explain her experience on hub-worlds/gathering places). She probably did see some action defending the station and likely tried to transfer at some point to a science vessel to "avoid the war and do star fleet stuff", but with starfleet on a war footing that got thrown out the window and she probably ended up in one of the various fleets (possibly the 7th based out of DS9). With starfleet entering a war mentality many of the senior staff of various ships probably threw the rule books out the porthole which mariner objected to (aka victory at the expense of other beings, not helping refugees fleeing the war, the utilisation of chemical weapons on civilian population's etc), as a result she was punished for "not being a good solder" which she wasn't, she was being a good starfleet officer and calling the senior staff out on their hypocrisy (falling to dominion tactics). So if she was going to be punished for doing what she trained to do she'd keep doing what was the most starfleet thing to do and be damned the consequences. In the end nepotism prevented her from being kicked out, but also finally working on a ship doing the job that starfleet said that it was meant to be doing. Working with a crew who do everything by that starfleet book, however whacky their antics. And finally getting a support structure that would help her.
It sort of highlights the issues starfleet had with the post-dominion war fleet and their politics with otyer powers. They'd built a fkeet with good solders, but at the expense of all the good "starfleet officers" who were kicked out, dropped through the gaps or exiled to far away starbases. So come a point "hypothetically" where you need to organise the evacuation if a world such as Romulus do you need someone who knows how to kill a cardassiannin 12 different ways, or do you need people trained in diplomacy, rescue, linguistics, medical training, hospitality, ecology, geology, teraforming, engineering to build new settlements?
An innocent child aboard the Enterprise D, her mother in engineering under Laforge.
A fresh faced 18yo Cadet, on DS9, in the dominion war, the only familiar face, Worf.
A war hero, who's seen friends go away- if not in battle, than in the promotions afterward.
A troublemaker, doing the right thing that she's not supposed to do, her last resort a position on her mother's support ship, doing the boring work that needs to be done.
A friend and mentor, to the Lower Decks.
Oh yeah, i always forgot both mother and daughter have expertise on engineering before becoming red shirts. (also there's one time in season 1 where Ensign Mariner was a Lt and wearing Yellow)
@@alternative915 if anything Mariner would be a blueshirt with her degree in Xenohistory
They really need to do a time travel episode to show us when she was still a wide-eyed cadet/ensign still optimistic about exploration and adventure.
I'm waiting for that one Futurama Jurassic Bark episode for Lower Deck about Mariner that will make me bawl my eyes out.
For me I can't help but wonder if Beckett has not only seen some horrible sights, hell her best friend was eaten alive right in front of her but maybe she has survived under some really bad commanders and that's why she wants to be a Lower Deck forever because she knows where the real backbone of Star Fleet is and it's the unsung heros of those ships that help get the daily grind done but also can make a bad commander look great.
That is some fun psycho-analysis.
I also really like the ties to prior events
Watching a being glass from orbit is something that doesn't Go away.
"Her age is kind of weird."
I've been wondering that myself...just how old is Mariner supposed to be? I remember in one episode Boimler stating that they were the same age, in an expression of surprise upon him finding out that Mariner used to run black ops with Klingons at one point. You would think the number of times Mariner has been promoted and demoted in her career she'd be at least slightly older than Boimler, or maybe Boimler just has incorrect information? Also, am I remembering correctly that Mariner tampered with her own Starfleet records at some point? Or am I making that up?
boimler may assume mariner is around his age if she's an ensign and doesn't look t hat old.
but at the same time she served during the dominion war 2373- 2375. if she's as old as wesley crusher/harry kim she would need to be around 32 years old around LD.
@@joeswanson733 Perhaps a bit younger...with Mariner being, well, Mariner, I could see her being to young to be a Cadet during it and if she had been on DS9, well, there's a lot of potential Klingon friends who wouldn't be so picky there.
@@AzraelThanatos another theory is during the dominion war she was a cadet like nog 2 years in expedited. so let's say she was 20 in 2373 so even by lower decks on the lowest end she would need to be at least 27-28...
I just made a new topic asking this same question. Probably should have read the comments first. She and Ramsey were in the same class, and Ramsey is a captain, which means has to be in her mid 30s at least. Kirk was 34 when he became captain.
@@charlesajones77 Picard made captain at 28 Tryla Scott at age 27. So basically Ramsay at the same age as mariner either being age 28-32 would be in line with that. Kirk made captain at age 31. Difference is Kirk was made captain and commanded a heavy cruiser like the enterprise which would have been very very impressive. Kirk was a commander of other ships prior to the enterprise if we go by beta cannon.
I quite like the theory that she was on the Enterprise D as a kid (supposedly there's a girl in a season 1 episode of TNG who looks like a young Beckett Mariner) before going to the Academy in the latter half of TNG. Admiral Leighton's attempted coup could well have been during her senior year before graduation. Hmm... let's do some quick maths. If she is indeed meant to be 31 in 2380 (Lower Decks season 1) that would make her 15 in 2364 (TNG season 1) so the earliest she could go to the Academy would be 2365 (TNG season 2), and four years of study puts her earliest graduation point somewhere in 2369 (TNG season 6, DS9 season 1) with 11 years of wacky (sometimes traumatising) adventures and some nasty quadrant-wide warfare to get jaded in before the start of Lower Decks
Wellp, You were right!
Haven't seen it yet. Was it confirmed ?
@@LoreReloaded Yep. Plus a few other stuff that makes your point stronger. Check that episode asap
Awesome video. That was intense.
I just realised something. Mariner was raised on the Enterprise D and served on Deep Space 9. This is how she can be so specific about TNG references. They happened to her. We know that she did "grey ops" stuff for starfleet even before being properly commissioned. Had her mum been a senior officer like the doctor she would've been a second Wesley.
This is also confirmed by her age. She was a year younger then Wesley was at starfleet we we have an exact time frame for her and it fits. She was at Wolf 359, she was there for all the Borg encounters and she probably was part of the group of starfleet crew that transferred from the enterprise to DS9 when that was taken over. This is why she's so jaded and disillusioned. She's basically O'Brian and Alexander at the same time... poor kid
It's implied that her mom was servant on the enterprise-d so she could have been there wolf 359.
it's likely that freeman was a lt. commander during the early days of TNG she's around beverly crushers age range. mariner seems to be around wesley crusher/ ensign kims age. but my guess is that freeman got rotated off the ENT-D some point before wolf 359 along with mariner. the senior staff may stay on for years but it seems everyone else on starfleet ships get rotated around quite a bit.
Where was it implied? Riker’s comment about being her mentor? He was XO elsewhere before the -D (the Hood I think?) so they could’ve served together before Riker was #1.
@@animateddepression we saw a mariner looking teen on the enterprise d on season one....
@@animateddepression a lot of Riker's comment and also that she was friends with Sonya Gomez.
She's a capable leader, but doesn't want to lead. Likely there was a time where she had responsibility to lead people and she wasn't able to save them from doom. It wasn't from her lack of judgement but she probably felt personally responsible.
It's easier being told what to do and having your own responsibility for failure vs telling others what to do and feeling responsible for their failure. Even if the events were a no win scenario.
My take is she saw ground combat in the war. Something we saw in the the AR 558 episode, dealing with terror tech and struggling to get relief. It would reinforce her comments if she served under a captain who refused to listen and got most of them killed. Then tried to pin it on her for insubordination.
That would track with breaking her optimism, especially after growing up with a much more creative and open minded leadership in the Enterprise. She's a very interesting character and is the perfect focus for a post dominion war series. Paradise lost, so to speak.
I don't know if she's actually a veteran of the Dominion War, but, as she said herself, "I've seen things, man!". And Starfleet has more than its fair share of PTSD related encounters.
According to the Canon, she has to be
@@LoreReloaded Yeah, probably.
I still think she got PTSD from watching her fellow crewmate turn into a monster and start devouring people.
You have made many solid points. However, I haven't been swayed by my view that Beckett Mariner is a hardcore narcissist alpha, an overbearing bully that needs to prove that she's right, regardless. There are too many instances of her destructive and self serving behavior. I will offer a specific example. Season 2: Episode 7: Where Pleasant Fountains Lie. Mariner went out of her way to get Boimler reassigned from a mission because, in her mind, she didn't consider Boimler ready, and when her subterfuge is discovered, she gets even worse, assuming a leadership position she had no business taking. It took Boimler stunning her with his phaser to enable the rescue. Beckett Mariner may be a victim of her past, but she has no business in a leadership role, ever.
I think thats the point. I'm seeing the finale of Lower Decks with Mariner been Boimler's or Tendi's Number One. The series is actually shaping them both for the Captain role (with season 3 and the lastest chapter for Boimler and with Tendi's pirate past and captain's dream)
What i mean is...Mariner will not be in command. But she will support with all her might the person that will be Captain of the four (Boimler or Tendi)
Every Starfleet officer suffers from PTSD, yet none of their counselors seem to be usedul.
Also this is a great display of 'show not tell' when it comes to showing characters. The signs are there/open to interpretation. But it's not blatantly said, just implied. So she's a great character and the way she's written is amazing because it's not blatantly said - we don't see characters reading her record and spekaing about it - thing sare implied, stated/shown (that are often of mixed accuracy).
Unironically Aged Well
Another interesting thing about Mariner: given that she was on the Defiant, is it possibke she was there at AR-558? And therefore probably had to watch friends due horribly.
you know what i think? her age is something to consider. I think she was part of the Temporal War! Think about it...Wolfe 359...Dominion War...and even her last name is different from her current parents. her life in Star Fleet is far more complicated than we think...who's to say that she is not involved in Section 31?
she at least as old as harry kim or wesley crusher. even if she was a fresh expedited ensign during the Dominion war in 2373 she would at bare minimum need to be 28 years old as of LD.
yes, but...how many years was it between the dominion war and her current time on the Cerritos?@@joeswanson733
New remember, Lower Decks takes place in the 2380s. In order for anyone there to have served at Wolf 359, they would have to have been at least old enough to be cadets then, which would make them nowhere near cadets in 2380. It doesn't work.
We are goven no deffinative age for mariner only that Boimler once said that he thinks shes closer to his age but isn't sure.
Before now, my theory was that Mariner was at least a Cadet during the Dominion War, before running off to join the Maquis (possibly due to a teenage prank.) She was on one of the colonies that was massacred by the Dominion and was one of a few survivors who was taken alive. she spent time in a Dominion or Cardassian POW camp under torture and witnessed atrocities before being rescued by the end of the war by that Klingon general and/or others.
Now, however, I just had a deeper theory. What if she was on Solosos III the colony that Sisko poisoned with his bioweapon? She would have witnessed Starfleet force tens of thousands out of their home, possibly witnessed innocent civilians tragically killed or injured by the bioweapon, while back home, not only was the Captain who did it never punished, but the entire event hushed up and never mentioned to anyone in the Federation. this would've left her with a deep impression on the dark side of the Federation, long seen as the only beacon of peace and justice in the universe, and she would have abandoned the notion that anyone is a hero in this galaxy.
in the end, she would have decided that there are no good guys or bad guys. only survivors and the dead.
What a tragic fall for such a gifted young woman.
you become a star fleet admiral, your pretty much a broken person in some way.
flag officers are politicains in uniforms with skeletons in their closets... the only ones that are semi not douches are the one star admirals (commdores) anything above that typically are douches or are evil evil. (buenamigo)
They’ve had some decent admirals. Nechayev was amazing - she gets way too much flack. Paris seemed ok.
@@animateddepression basically the 3 star admirals are jerks. No crime in being a jerk but they end to be super jerks
im not calling these people jerks or bad, buuuuuuuut these are the same people who watch as friends and families get blow up, eaten, get turned into jello cubes, fuzzy balls, assimilated by the borg, died in a pointless war star fleet started, death by some unknown disease, killed by a trap set by a long dead species, death by disintegration, death by klingon, death vampire rock, Q just Q, death by transporter, and you live through all that just to get a pin thats says( your at the top) with no where else to go but down.
....Something happened to her that made her want to avoid Rank and responsibility. She was definitely on the fast track to being a Captain and she's quite capable..you can see it every time there's a real emergency, the Capable Mariner shows up and takes charge of the situation, as we have seen several times.
....What happened? She might have been on the Enterprise-D during Wolf 359...as a child or near teen. She thought her mom and dad had really cool jobs and its probably all she had ever known, growing up on starships and star bases. She's very smart as well, and loyal, to the ship, Starfleet, her parents and especially her Lower Deck friends.
....This Lt.J.G..and being under Ransom's command is a sign for her and the others that ST:LD is doing some character growth..especially Ransom. He's shown some depth to his character when he stabbed Mariner in the foot to face off with the Giant and when he refused to demote her in S4:E2...all in all, ST:LD has become my favorite ST series in the dreadful...Yes...I said it..
"In the Dreadful Kurtzman Trek droppings that CBS has allowed him to push off on Fans as actual Star Trek."
I suspect Mariner is genetically enhanced. It would explain why:
(1) She's so smart.
(2) She's so physically agile.
(3) She's aging so slowly.
(4) Her rebel streak. (As we know from episodes in Deep Space 9, the genetically enhanced often have psychological issues that make it difficult to fit into society. That she got into Star Fleet before she became a rebel indicates that she found out she was genetically enhanced only after she became an ensign.)
also, she survives stab wounds like it's nothing.
There was also the loss of her friend (who's name I cannot remember) being killed and eaten right in front of her. (in the season 1 episode: Cupid's Errant Arrow).
I always assumed something in Mariner's life caused her to change to the person that we know now. I just didn't think it was some of the major events likes Wolf 359. Granted i imagined something happened during the Dominion War but I figured it was a separate matter that happened to Mariner.
What Templin Institute short are you referencing here? I feel like I should have remembered it.
He theorized she was in the dominion war
I think she got an early start in starfleet a weasley crusher type character. I think like lores comments about the alter trek shows telling the story of the end of a golden age Beckette saw that fall. She witnessed the end of the hope and optmizim of that brighter trek future and it broke her.
This show is super underrated. I think the main problem is that people took one look at Mariner and Boimler in the first episode and, because of a political "rorschach test" effect, instantly disliked the show without seeing what the show actually does with these characters. Boimler is not a punching bag for white-male-bashing. He is not a helpless, incompetent man-child. Mariner is not the "perfect, morally righteous woman-of-color Mary Sue" that a lot of viewers assumed. Granted, there was a whiff of that in early episodes, as the show tries a little too hard to make her a "cool rebel who does the right thing", but you can hardly call her a Mary Sue when she's disliked by most of the characters.
Something broke her, given her relationship with boimler, im guessing she lost a boyfriend during the wars.
She has confidence and abandonment issues.
One thing i find *really* fascinating about Starfleet Academy is this: given all of the officers across all of the starships as well as the presumption that most, if not all, of them are Academy graduates that leads to 1 of 2 conclusions: either Starfleet Academy in San Francisco has a *truly* massive enrollment. Or, the Academy has numerous satellite campuses across all the Federation worlds. As best we know, Starfleet does not have an ROTC or most of the other real-world paths to becoming a military officer. For example, a family friend is a psychiatrist who joined the US Army not long before 9/11 brcauss she wanted to be in Korea. She already had a MD in a field the military was short on, so they put her through an abbreviated version of basic training and gave her an officer's commission in the US Army medical coros.
I grew up in the suburbs of a city known as a university town because of the huge number of colleges there abd later went to college in that city. Having seen it first-hand, I wonder if and how Starfleet has taken over San Francisco by the 23rd-25th century.
Presumably, Captain Shaw of 2401 was a cadet during Wolf 359, suggesting an age well over 50, which is entirely possible for Shaw.
I like it.
I don't know if this has been confirmed, but it fits what we know about Mariner; she was a kid on the Enterprise-D. The Battle of Wolf 359 happened in early 2367, so the timeline certainly works for her to have enrolled in Starfleet Academy in the year or two following and be commissioned well before 2375. That is also enough time to have been promoted and demoted a few times before we meet her on the Cerritos in 2380.
The dates don't add up for this theory about Wolf 359. The Borg attack was in 2366-67. Lower Decks begins in 2380 and lasts till 2384 currently, only 17 years later. Beckett Mariner is 23 in 2380 when the show starts, not somehow older. This means that she was born in 2357, and would have been 9 years old during the Battle of Wolf 359. Freeman, her mother, could have been in the battle, not Mariner. No children were on the ships in the battle.
The only way this works is she was a child on the Enterprise D, during said battle, and her parents or one parent was aboard as a lowly officer then.
During the Domion war, 2374 to 2377, she would have not even been at the academy yet. Presuming she entered the Academy right in 2375, it's remotely possible she was a cadet on a ship, as implied a few times.
It could not have been wolf 359 as she was only a child then. She is not supposed to be the same age as the actress playing her voice.
it would be even more fun if they look into the life of those who live outside the Federation. Like a Maquis veteran or an independent in the borderland
Makes sense
She encountered a Medusian when she was a little girl. Pried open his box because she thought it was treasure. She was goaded in by to officer talking about contraband and when she asked about the box they teased her that it was treasure. Since then, she has has a tenuous link with the Medusan, attempting to keep her sane.
There is alot of speculation on line about Mariner that is reaching Guinan levels. She apparently crashed an Oberth at some point.
My thoughts? Is that lower decks have better writing that it has any right, dignity or deservedness to have.
Show is a comedic that parodies the source material while having charactered with deep to them and complex narrative that is complicated.
All of that while respectfully mocking the source material to the ground and not taking itself seriously, even do it does stay coercive narration wise.
So yeah, is not impressive that Mariner is such complex and deep character, show has good writers.
The biggest mystery is her age which is what this theory hinges on. You would assume that the other lower deckers are in their early 20s, but Mariner has obviously been in Starfleet a fair bit longer than them. I'm not sure how many years after the dominion war Lower Decks takes place. What's the youngest that Mariner could be if we assume that she served in the war fresh out of the academy? Early 30s maybe?
Mariner is amazing
With both her parents being in Starfleet it's possible that she was on board a ship at Wolf 359 as a child.
I've been threatening to do a video along these lines for a long time now....
I have no idea when you did this video but a lot of it got explained in the last 2 episodes of the last season. There's no question that Beckett there's a veteran of the dominion war and that in many ways that were damaged her.. A lot of people got damaged. That's the nature of war. Nobody comes out unscatched.
Being a survivor of a war I cannot call her a tragic character I can call her a flawed character and can call her a character in recovery but I can't call her a tragic one. Her story still has yet to be written.
I think she is someone that has no business being in the military during a time of war. It’s much like US army, it was different peace time vs war. Post Cold War/ pre war on terror. It changed and many men I know could handle the changes in the army and themselves, once it was time to go do what we trained to do. And then the opposite once the wars started to end and we moved back to being a garrison force.
As we see many times in star trek most officers join for the exploration part of starfleet not the combat one, and then their shoved into a war unexpectedly and not really prepared.
Live long and prosper 🖖
Would it have been the same story if she was on the Lakota as a mid level officer? With Admiral Laytons attempt to take over star fleet, Mariner could have found herself on the wrong side of things. Believing what they were doing was right. That could have fundamentally changed her outlook on star fleet. She witnessed her superior officers make huge mistakes believing they were doing the right thing. That killed her motivation to move up in rank where she wouldn’t have to be in situations like that again.
She did hang out with Riker as well.
I like how _Lower Decks_ calls out some of the BS, like not following through when you upend some planet’s society.
One thing though, I think Shaxs should have gotten chewed out for removing that tagout on the lift Boimler was working on. Biiig safety violation there.
Yes, PTSD exists in Star Trek. If only the canon-nites can pull their heads out of their asses and understand that.
She was an underclassman to Wesley so she wouldn’t have been at Wolf 359. There’s a theory that she grew up on the enterprise-D so that’s how she knows Cdr Riker
The latest lower decks actually justifies this video.. believe it or not
I get the feeling she wasn't formally "serving" in a lot of these. She trikes me as the type to get herself into the Dominian War while being legally too young; she wouldn't be the first.
Hab SoSII Quch
😉
Many of my friends don't care for her character however, I've always thought she acts the way she does because, she doesn't want to show how vulnerable she really is..... And. It had to been something tragic !!!! Lower Decks is a cool show. Looking past the comedy, there's some scary stuff going on 🤔
She suffers from PTSD about the Dominion War.
Probabilly she had to endure some bad things in the Dominion war, remember that this was an authentical schock for the Federation, they weren't accustomed to war's brutalities, after all most of them are a bunch of nerds that suddenly were thrown in a Thin Red Line' s like situation. Perhaps she saw a lot of comrades killed in horrorific ways, and this could justify her attitude about responsabilities. Pitt, bcz 'til now she is one of the most realistic characters in the whole saga.
Mariner is everything Burnham should be but isn't. Brilliant but flawed, can fix others but not her self, anti-establishment and remains as a lower ranking officer in spite of potentialy being a great example of Stafleet... and most of all, she takes responsibility for her actions.
Well blame Burnham vulcan parents😂
Okay, we all need to start scouring DS9 for extras that could conceivably be Beckett Mariner.
🖖
I think its not very good story telling if it takes seasons to get into why a character has major issues, and when it happens it more hints than explains.
I feel it ends up with people looking for depth in a puddle and making theories online only to have that series change something later.
If her backstory is that then yes the character is an interesting one, but i've seen deep characters done much better without having massive personality flaws that go unexplained for seasons first.
Susan Ivanova is a broken woman but not one who outwardly shows that broken part of her in her day to day.
She lives throught massive war, almost dies herself (infact was basically dying) loses the love of her life without being able to say anything to him, and directly effects the universe to change for the best saving billions-trillions of lives along side her friends, but she's still broken at the end looking for absolution "for people like us"
👍🏿
So, I starting to think Captain Mariner will be like a female version of Shaw.
I think she might have PTSD
By 2400, Mariner would be 43.
Please do StarCraft Remastered Zerg and Protoss. And the expansion. When you play as the Zerg, you are a ceberate. And when you play as the Protoss, you are an executive.
Zerg buildings are living organisms. And their units heal themselves
Protoss buildings are advanced buildings with shields. And it's units.
Please do StarCraft Remastered. All campaigns. PLEASE😢
i love your analytical approach. i love how your brain works
You think this is tragic? How long until the Romulan supernova and the Android uprising in Picard happens from when they are in Lower Decks?
Yeah... wait for iiiiit....
Lower. Deck is .more like. Deep Space Nine.
Im sorry but who did the thumbnail that loo sooo amateurish
I'll lose a lot of sleep over your dissaproval.. rest assured
& I thought, I was (Star Trek)’s 🐀z @$$ 😆?
Lower Decks..? /unsubscribe LoreReloaded
:(
owwww im kidding. But you wont pull me in with LowerDecks.@@LoreReloaded
Can we please not call the modern era of Star Trek "Discovery era Trek?" It's both wrong for the era being discussed and.. I think it's best if everyone pretends Discovery never existed.
I mean that from a franchise viability standpoint and from a timeline standpoint. They literally took a dump on the future timeline with that brain-damaged burn stuff and a dump on the early pre-TOS timeline by just being a terrible, terrible show. Not all NuTrek is terrible, as they seem to have learned a lot of lessons, now.. but Discovery was a flaming dumpster fire.
'Nu-trek' is silly and cringe worry in my opinion. Often Era's are named by the first thing they are identified. It's unfortunate that this era had to have Discovery take that mantle... of that we'll both agree ;P
Honestly, gave the show a couple of chances. Do not like the character. Cannot stand the other characters. Don’t watch the show anymore. These are supposed to be scientists and literally the best of humanity. Even the worst of them is supposed to be literally the best of humanity. They are literally going out there as ambassadors. Low brow humor just really isn’t my thing.
That's fair