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TFS How To Build A Forward Facing Turbo Manifold Part 2
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- Опубліковано 22 лис 2016
- One of the most difficult projects for a beginner is broken down pipe by pipe in this episode of #TFSBoostFab. Building a turbo manifold requires a thorough understanding of concept, design, function, and a bit of artistic flair to complete. In this follow up video, Justin the Fabricator finishes off the design with lots of stainless TIG weding and adds the wastegate port.
TFS Boost Fab is a special segment related to the automotive performance fabrication industry. Make sure you check out the other TFS Boost Fab episodes for more!
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![055: Sorting Turbo Manifold Fact From Fiction. [#PODCAST]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zK0Mke-vyG8/mqdefault.jpg)
thanks bud im an Aussie boilermaker i finished my apprenticeship in 1992 straight after leaving school.i enjoy your vids and appreciate your work and im constantly learning from you.good onya mate
Hey man, I'd like to thank you for the time and effort you put into your videos. You're channel basically inspired me to persue an education and career in fabrication. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for watching! Good luck in the industry! Education will get you much farther and faster.
Hey Justin,
First of all, your videos are amazingly helpful and extremely informative. It is so generous of you to share your knowledge with everyone the way you do.
Second, one thing that I have encountered in my limited welding experience is that flipping my hood up before my post flow cuts off creates a draft blowing the argon off the weld before it cools completely. Leaving my hood down until I hear or see the post flow stop seems to yield better results for me. Just a humble observation. Disregard if you feel otherwise. Once again thank you for all the work you put in to these videos!
Austin Gutknecht It happens to me if I'm really close to the weld, but I usually consider it before I make a pass.
built a evo FF manifold for my evo. T4 and for a 76mm PTE with the 5” inlet cover. clears stock PS, half rad, no chassis mod required. that sucker is tight in there, and your vids helped motivate me to accomplish it.
your work is inspirational in my eyes this is exactly what I want to do once I am finished with the army even if I can only afford to do it on weekends in my spare time.thank you
Thanks for watching and your service! Good luck in the civvy life wen you're done.
Great dedication man! Great shots, great detail, and awesome content. Keep it up!
Hi,great tutorials mate!!!,I really appreciate your nice n laid back attitude..carl in the uk...
You are the man!
I love learning from your videos.
subbed! Ive looked up multiple videos of fabbing your own manifold and I have to say your videos are by far the best! I'm taking up a welding class at fortis and hope to soon be making my own parts.
Thanks for the sub! Good luck in the future!
Very nice. Love watching your videos. Thank you
i've been subscribed since week one. I've been watching your videos and practicing on our budget racecars based on your videos, and i'm happy to say i have 2 interviews for welding positions next week.
Congrats! Good luck!
I don't know if you got the job or not but this is one of the best comments ever!
I've been welding for close to 20 years with a stick, mig & spool gun but never had the opportunity to learn to use a TIG.
My brother, who was a welder for years gave me a TIG machine about 2 years ago (including some consumables & an empty argon tank. Beggars can't be picky!)
His response to me asking him to come give me some lessons was "You're one of the smartest guys I know, you'll figure it out."
My business keeps me pretty busy and I messed around with it for about 15 minutes one day (using the Argon tank from my Miller 210 for the spool gun) and quickly realized that I needed some direction. This machine has more switches and dials than a Boeing 747....
I'm happy to say that yesterday I had my first lesson on TIG from another guy I recently met who's a welder. I was relieved to not be as confused as I was expecting & I'm excited to get practicing!
i was taught to always start from the port side with a 25mm' straight,this way it is easier to make sure you inner dia is matched to the flange.love the vids
That's a good tip, I didn't think of that
Love your videos and how detailed you explain things. Every video I learn something new.
I wanted to know where you got those Push-Lock fittings for your purge block. I have a couple on my car that I got on eBay but can't find anymore info on them as far as who makes them etc. Every other ones I've found aren't as good quality as those. If you can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it
great video! you inspired me to do my own roll cage on my miata along with other future plans! ! thanks for the great insight! !
Awesome! Thanks for watching!
Nice video mate !
Great work thanks for sharing
Hey Justin, thanks for inspiring me to purchase a Tig welder and give this a try... are you going to show how to make a merge collector like the one used in this video? You’re a great teacher!
Cool video bro. Respect 👌
Both 1&2 were great. Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
Really Nice work! One thing i would recommend (especially for full race car) is get the waste gate inlet tube fitment, from the merge collector, at an slighter angle instead of a 90 degree bend so the exhaust flow to the WGate is smoother, less turbulent, and doesn't have to make that sharp 90 degree turn to flow out of the WGate. This supposedly keeps the boost regulated much better and keeps boost spikes at a minimum, because obviously the exhaust gas takes the path of least resistance and a angle lesser than 90 has least resistance. With this shorter merge collector I know it would be almost impossible & 90 is the easiest way to go on this build. A longer merge collector would make this much more possible. It's a big tip i learned from the turbo experts.
ScienceofSpeed, I agree 💯%, I see the owner experiencing boost creep with a small tube at 90deg and a small WG. A new 44mm WG would help but it might not be enough.
Good stuff!! Saludos!
Enjoy!
(You're the first comment by the way)
Great job as usual!
Thanks!
it looks good, thank you
So dope. Impressive and inspiring
Thanks!
awesome video, very informative. im tacking up a manifold currently. when welding though, you arnt worried about warping and distortion of the final position of the collector? i know at work, our stainless goes all over the place when welding, but its all open root so maybe closed root is different?
I have watched this series a couple times now, beautiful work! I am beginning a single turbo big block chevrolet project soon, and I was wondering if you have made turbo header/manifolds from mild steel? I have had many different sets of standard (not supporting the weight of a turbo) aftermarket headers, and they are all 16ga mild steel. Underhood temps can get pretty high, and I usually use header wrap to prevent this as much as I can. Are there certain strength benefits from using stainless, or is it simply a finish/corrosion concern?
Nice job turning all those bits and pieces into a custom built turbo manifold!
Great info dude! Thank you!!!
Thanks for watching!
Nice work!
Thanks!
I love you'r job man
great video series :)
Thanks for watching!
keep up your awesome work ;)
Thanks!
nice job of instruction
Thank you!
hi i build a turbo motorcycle but a only have mig pak 10 welder so i build the headers in steel what tickness i should use?? thanks i learn a lot today
learned a ton!! thank you!!
Thanks for watching!
Good job man
Thank you!
hey what about using a flexible plastic hose like those that works like an accordion? you can make them shorter or longer as you prefer. That can help you calculating the size of each tube and the best position to fit it!
Brilliant
Hey just a quick tip... you should wear latex gloves when using acetone, acetone absorbs through your skin and goes to you liver and kidneys. Just a heads up. As always awesome work and I really enjoy these videos.!!
I'll keep it in mind. Thanks!
to add to this topic, avoid Vinyl type gloves, acetone melts it lol, learned that the hard way
Maybe also a disc guard on the grinder....😉
Gloves and guards..... Definitely not the Gen X crowd😅. Most welder's livers are pickled anyway and remember safety third. If there's no element of danger it's probably not worth doing 😁
I'm joking y'all, calm down 🤙🏻
awesome!
youre awsome dude keep up the great job
Thanks for watching!
Does the spiral firing order layout aid exhaust scavenging and help spool?
What about the stick out of welds on the inside of the pipe if there are any? Is it a bout 1/16 to 1/8 if there's any. Would it be like pipe welding or would schedule 40 not be thick enough to worry about. Im asking because i was thinking if there's alot it could mess with the air flow. Thats what i was thinking.
I like boost fab !
Right on. It's becoming a hot topic for a lot of viewers. Thanks for watching!
24.02 "YEEEEP" even the ghost approved the fitment👍
Hey brother, I just found a crack in my stock cast iron turbo manifold. I only have access to a MIG. Would you recommend building a tubular or just welding the cracks in the stock?
@thefabricationseries how much do you charge for custom manifolds?
I know this is an older video but question.... no purging while tack welding? Does that not mess with the quality?
Truly enjoy your videos. Thank you for taking the time to show us the steps in making precision tube products. Would you mind pointing me in the direction of calculating pulse length. I am looking to build a custom exhaust system for my bush plane. I have recently blue printed the motor, and don't want that hard work going to wast by using the stock exhaust system. I have a decent background in higher end math, so deciphering engineering books/notes would not be impossible. Thanks again.
That is a very long response haha. If I can get it in a video, I will.
Thanks for the come back.
Ben Kramer If you want to know more than you could EVER use on that topic, join the Speedtalk forum. The maths & stuff are common kind of topics on the advanced engines tech forum
awesome video. how do you weld in some of the places on the manifold as it looks like you cant fit the welder in, or is there more room than appears on the video
Long stickout and good gas coverage will get into tight spaces. There was quite a bit of space on this manifold but I couldn't capture it all on camera because I was in the way of the shot when I was welding. It's mostly just camera angles that made it look extremely tight. However, if you don't have the space to weld as an assembly, you need to weld the runners individually before welding to the assembly.
Old video but I must ask if you remember what amp your welding that sch40 at? I’ve recently tried at 90 and was scooting and wasn’t penetrating all the way through, if I slowed down I was just cooking the tube :/
do you generally travel in one direction with your welds? how are you getting into really tight places between runners? if i use a really long stick out the arc tends to jump around, or off to the side of the tungsten. are you using 1/16th tungsten or 3/32s.
I like the uniformity of a single direction so I always try to maintain it throughout. Every great once in a while I will encounter a tight spot where I have to change direction. If the stickout is causing jumping, you need more gas coverage. That's why I use the larger cups. Tight spaces are usually conquered with more stickout. Some spaces in this vid looked almost impossible to weld,but it was just the camera angle. If you do not actually have the space, you need to weld each runner individually before welding to the assembly. I use both 1/16 and 3/32. I switch them up depending on thickness of the material and space requirements.
Hey dude nice video again. I would like to ask what difference in lenght of the runners do you consider good enough that the scavange effects is used?
It varies per application. There is no set number since builds are all different.
How many electronic bits were removed from the car before you welded on it? Or did you just rely on the earth path being through the turbo housing? I have always been concerned about frying car electronics. Expensive if it happens!!
Hello
I want to know the 6pipe murge collector how much is the angle of the cutting 360÷6=60 so needs to be cut the one pipe to 2 cut of 30degree cut?
HI ,DO YOU HAVE HOW BUILD TUBULAR CONTROL ARM LOWER AND UPPER?
minding my own stuff and watch this video Until 2:02. and my heart stop a moment there thinking my Screen was Fucked up lol 😂
Why do you run argon purge through all four ports at the same time? Seems like you'd want to save argon by just having a 1/8NPT barb fitting and put do one tube at a time. What am I missing?
GoldHawg As an assembly, it's almost impossible to block off individual ports. I also don't weld one runner at a time to minimize distortion.
Thanks. Amazing that not only do you serve us by making great videos, but also answering posts that show up a year later. I've just made a similar purge manifold for a SS header and I was thinking of just doing the purge one port at a time, but I'll go ahead and plumb it the same way you did.
Everyone does it different.... If it gets the job done then its all good...
awesome work! I have a ramhorn manifold how do you keep the studs from breaking on the head with a heavy manifold and turbo? those did look like m8, I would think m10s would be less likely to break. I am thinking about making a bracket of some sort to help hold the weight.
Hard for me to answer haha. I've never had studs break off before. You can use additional bracketing, but if the design of the manifold allows for too much flex during heat cycling, the bracket or the manifold will likely break or crack.
Its one of the full race ram horns for a honda b series. I'm at a loss after breaking I don't know how many sets, so was thinking about some sort of bracket.
You make it look easy but great video
At the end of the day, it's really not that complicated if you just break down the process. Thanks for watching!
Any chance of seing the finished product (car running and doing its thing) ?
I just love your work, can't wait till I can move out of this flat, and into a house with a garage so I can get myself a TIG welder and start practicing !
If I can make it happen I will.
Awesome :D
Next month me and a tig welding buddy is making UEL headers for my NA subaru impreza :D I'm going to apply some of what I've learnt from your videos - we will also be making a time lapse video :D
What if there is no space to have a "bundle of snakes" manifold? Would a log style kill performance?
I'm thinking for my low speed application, it will be fine. V8 diesel twin turbo is the project.
great video mate! I do have a question though: Why, if the manifold is being ceramic coated, would you use SS? would it not be substantially cheaper to use mild Steel, and less prone to cracking? once again, great videos!
Material and coating are two separate things. The reason for using stainless is because it will withstand more heat and resist the corrosive nature of exhaust gasses. The purpose of the ceramic coat is to contain most of the heat which will allow greater throttle control and response from the turbo. The more heat that stays in the manifold before the turbo - the better it will perform. Stainless just holds up better in the long run.
@@TheFabricatorSeries just wondering what grade stainless you're using? 304 312? Thanks!!
Hey I am looking to do a one of a kind engine swap and need to make a front subframe to put the new engine in. I am buying a half cut so I have all the miscellaneous bits as well including the subframe.
Do you recommend bracing/chopping/welding the two subframes together to fit the engine in or should I make my own tubular front subframe? I have all the tools needed except a tube bender but I would buy one if I went the tubular route of course
Also, any advice on making a tubular subframe if I end up going that route? I am trying to apply many of the concepts accross your videos but I feel the subframe is more difficult/challanging/critical than the front end or manifold
Thanks
I actually have a biased opinion on this haha. I do not like using the cut and splice method. I prefer to engineer and build a part from scratch because it gives me more options and control over the outcome of the product. It's also easier (for me) to build it all from scratch 99% of the time.
Not all subframes require bending. Amazingly enough, they are one of the few pieces that can almost always be built without using a single bend as long as your design allows it. Just like any other custom component, you will need to come up with a well engineered design and give it a lot of attention. Many of the principals I have demonstrated in my vids can be applied to a custom subframe.
Thank you. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. I may just need make my own then and not having to buy a bender is definitely convenient.
Since I am a structural engineer by education, I definitely plan to engineer it to work better than factory, but since it is a new application for me, the experience is what I am lacking as a hobbyist. Do you have any advice on how to calculate engine loads in something like an SR20 that would allow me to start with a tentative member/beam size? Even something like what a typical tube size would be in a tubular front subframe?
The "fabricator" in me wants to mimic the factory design with additional reinforcing but since it is stamped, there won't be an easy way to calculate strength or flex.
I'll need to create my own that hits all of the mounting points while leaving enough room for critical components. Since it's an SR 20 into a mini cooper chassis, space is going to be the biggest challenge.
Thanks again and I'm looking forward to more videos
Ive done several front Clip swaps and have never needed to fab a subframe. Ive always used the subframe from the clip and then fab custom motor mounts. What engine are you (or did you) putting into what chassis?
What dimension butt weld SS pipe do you use and is it short or long radius? 48mm od? 2.77mm wall? I want to build a turbo manifold for a car I'm building. Great vids as usual, cheers.
It depends on the manifold. Use the size and radius you need.
Hi
How I can install the extra argon line
shred song on the weldup part?
sounds like jason becker
wouldnt that wastegate angle positioning and placement produce a fair amount of boost creep ?
great channel btw. Stupid amounts of really useful information. Keep up the good work !
Dear friend, I watch your videos whenever I can. When you are making welds on the workbench, what type of gas are you injecting into the base? What would be the function of that. thankful
It's called back purge and the gas he is using is Argon they use it to shield the weld from the inside.
When you make the video for the merge collector can you make it without using your bandsaw? Interested in how you find the angle for the cut. Currently i'm using a chop saw with a jig i made that holds the pipe at an 11 degree intersection angle to the blade, to find the angle i have one of those circle protractors with a blob of hot glue on the back so it sticks into the pipe and doesn't (does a little) move. Then i cut, rotate 90 degrees (for a 4-1) then cut again. blade walks with sch40 but will be going sch10 in the future
jzrchassis Popular technique. I think I saw something like that on a forum a while back. I'll see about using a different setup but the best way to prevent the blade from deflecting is to let the saw do the work. don't force it to cut - just let it cut.
Now I feel a bit silly for whining about the time you took to put this build out there.. Two videos on the same build in one day? You sir, are a righteous man..
Haha, no worries. I'm backed up on video production right now anyway.
Yes, “really awesome content”
damn u do amazing work
Thanks!
Hey, if it's not too much to ask
What size filler rod was that 1/16? And about how many amperage? For this material in the vid?
It varies on each weld. Some welds use 1/16, others use .040. Amperage also varies per weld location. The machine you use also makes a difference.
TFS... I have just brought my first TIG welder, can I ask why use the see through gas cup? And what makes you change between them and the red ones like you did in this video? Thank you
mason8725 gas coverage to better shield the weld when welding. the ceramic cups allow you to get in tighter areas to tack it in place
The larger cup provides more coverage during welding (as mentioned). It's not needed for tack welding. You could use a regular #8 gas lens for the whole project but you would have to make smaller welds to keep the coverage contained. Being clear is just the product. They make them in ceramic as well.
it is a professional work..
does your tig machine dc or Ac/dc square wave
It is AC/DC. The wave is soft square and nothing else is adjustable.
What metal use?
hi there where do you buy all of your bends ? looks good
I buy them from a vendor (wholesale). A quick online search for "Weld-El's" will net many results.
How much time did you really have in that build, I know the videos were compressed to get it all in. I have done a little fab work myself, and know some about how much time is involved with fab, fit up, grinding, so forth, and welding
peter ferri the manifold itself was done in 3 days on camera. I usually get it done in about half that (I build a lot of manifolds). The intercooler piping was done in one day and the rest of it was on and off for a couple weeks. I think I had the car for the full transformation for about 3 weeks or so.
That was cool thanks for instructing an informative project. I would like to have seen it finished and nstalled but, whatever That's rare in the mana world
This series actually makes me want to build an Evo as a project car. Lol.
That wg provision looks like it will have lots of creep issues.exhaust gases have to make a direct 90 into another bend for the gate to vent off. Gate priorities like that rely mostly on pressure and not flow. Best to have both pressure and flow but I guess you had space restrictions you had to place the gate.
Can only make the best out of what is available. Its all build specific.
Putting the waste gate right on the turbine housing would have probably worked well for this build. And been easier to do.
what grade of stainless you using
Awesome video man. Any chance your going to make a more detailed video about welding the collector and the runners to the collector? Also, I thought you had mentioned you were going to explain more about the pre-fab collector you bought for this manifold.
Matt Dehnert To be very straight forward about it, there's not a whole lot of detail to get into on either part. A pre-made collector is just that. All you do is weld it to a flange. Welding the collector or runners isn't very specific. It's just like welding any other part.
I'll get to explaining how to make a merge collector in another episode, but what specifically do you want to know about welding them?
The Fabrication Series #1: where do you get a pre-fabbed sch 40 collector? #2: is there a particular cup setup or purge procedure for welding the inner part of the collector that you use?
Matt Dehnert There are a handful of online stores that sell merge collectors. All you need to know is the size of the pipe (diameter and schedule), and the size of the flange you want it to fit.
Purging is something I'll get into in a future episode. There isn't a specific procedure to it other than making sure there is argon inside of it.
The Fabrication Series I can only find sch 10 collectors. Guess I'll have to look harder.
Matt Dehnert You can build with either size. I only chose 40 because it needs to hold the weight of a larger/heavier turbo. Almost every manifold I build is usually 10, which is most common. However, there are a handful of stores that sell in schedule 40.
great video as always
what welder are you using ?
Miller Diversion 180
Cool thanks
Can we use MIG with this? Or would you only recommend TIG?
I've seen it done with a MIG but the welds might not hold as true and if you don't use stainless wire, it will not last as long.
the flange must be supported of any distortion during welding so bolt alignment stay in place.
very nice job, one Q: was that schedule 10 pipe, also how many amps you used?
+Javier Broger I honestly don't remember unless I said it in the episode. I build so many of these and this was done a while ago.
The Fabrication Series no worries thanks for your answer
how did you take care of the gap on runner number 3?
Justin S I cut another elbow from the head flange and switched them out.
Could this be done with a MIG welder? Forgive me if this is a stupid question, I don't know much about welding at all
I've seen it done with a MIG but the welds might not hold as true and if you don't use stainless wire, it will not last as long.
What would the average cost be for a header like this? A lot of time & material...
Great videos !!!
Anywhere between $900 and $1,400 depending on design (and builder)
I know this has basically already been asked but can this be done with flux core on just reg wire? Or can I use reg steel instead of stainless??
You can but TIG is a lot better for piping
You can technically use anything but just about everything else will not be as strong.
Hey Justin, what does the "MP" stand for on your brand logo?
Merrill Performance (the name of my company)
The Fabrication Series
Makes perfect sense now,.
Great channel content, easy to grasp and a lot of common sense.
Thanks for sharing.
what cup is that (the clear one)? high flow i assume with that crazy stick out. ive gotta make a turbo manifold for a motorcycle soon, never done one
i mean, what could go wrong! hahahah
poet99999 cup size was 12
its a furick cup, allot of fabricators swear by these as they give great coverage and spread. never tried on myself tho
The cup is a Furick FUPA #12. It provides a ton of gas coverage and allows for greater stick out which gets into tighter spaces.
cool thanks guys.
I need a Bottom Mount Manifold just like this for my Evo 8...
What Model and brand is your tig welder
Miller Diversion 180
i think you should have done the close ones first, there is plenty of room for the end runners. still it is a tough job to do
So why did you do all that monkeying around with tubing parts under the hood after you spent all that time building the jig? Didn't you trust your jig? Thanks for the great videos!
Nice job, manifold looks good.
Would have been much easier if you welded the runners off the manifold 1 by 1 and then welded to collector/flange.
"Easier" is up to the person doing the job. There was plenty of access on this piece, so welding as an assembly ensured there would be less distortion. Either method works (and I use both on different manifolds). Thanks for watching!
No argon purge for the interior? Hmm. Is that due to the weight of the material being welded or something else?
---Just my two cents.