Helmet Cameras | Legal Hints + Tips
Вставка
- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- We've teamed-up with the gurus at White Dalton Motorcycle Solicitors to bring you FREE legal advice every month. This time, it's all about onboard and helmet cameras. Are they worth it from a legal perspective?
Check out White Dalton here 👉🏼 www.whitedalto...
44T Merch - 44teeth.com/44t...
Discounts on cool stuff and things - 44teeth.com/44r...
44T Instagram - / 44teeth
44T Facebook - / fortyfourteeth
44T Twitter - / fortyfourteeth
Hopefully you won’t need legal advice but if you do, check out Andrew and his merry gang 👉🏼 www.whitedalton.co.uk
Great video chaps. Could you maybe touch on lane splitting in the next episode please
I personally think "legal corner" is an excellent format. Keep them coming!
hear hear!
Really good series chaps - great idea.
You got pinned!
Concur, but it also shows how bad the West has become as a nanny and police state.
Who else got awkward when he said tunnels and custodial sentence? But... the acoustics your honour 😔
If I pass through the tyne tunnel I sometimes sit in a lower gear just to enjoy a bit of noise!
Thats not illegal however. The issues he's talking about are less about revbombing more about dangerous driving.
- “why did you steer directly into that motorcyclist, Mr Driver?”
- “I panicked”.
- “ok, no problem then”.
Maybe this will be the new SMIDSY.
exactly!
This is one of several problems. You go into magistrates court and a good chunk of.them automatic assume fault on the bike rider. Even when you have cast iron 100% pr99f you were not at fault you can leave court with 20-40% fault.
Filtering regardless of the law you will leave with the judgement that you bear part of the fault even if they deliberately hit you.
Too many middle class golf club wankers in that job.
Forget cameras (unless you make a living from it), enjoy your run, drink beer, talk shite and go to bed. Check weather, repeat.
Yeah, I'd like one just to keep memories but I know it'd end up fucking me over.
Yup! Also, I've tried taking a few on-bike videos and you have to spend absolutely bloody HOURS editing them to make them anything other than excruciatingly boring to anyone. Time better spent down the local pub I'd say!
Imagine they put all that effort into catching the Motorcycle thieves!
Crazy isn’t it
It's a lot easier to fine honest people
@@LucaBonato It's because the honest people pay the fines
Yes, because bike thieves regularly video themselves breaking the law and then post it to their FB or YT channel immediately afterwards?
@@iamtherealzombie A fair amount of them actually do yes, Iv seen numerous videos around facebook, instagram live videos etc. of thieves boasting about the bikes the'v nicked, setting them on fire with them in full body view of the camera or harassing other people with the stolen bike as an accesory and posting it because they think its funny. Sadly its not uncommon at all.
Loving this series. I'm an IAM rider and pretty well behaved on the road 95% of the time - I save the nutty stuff for track days - but it's good to understand all these nuances, and White Dalton really know their stuff 👌
'I'm an IAM rider' OOOOOO, what size is your polite vest?
@@FIREFIREBLADE mate I wouldn't be seen dead in high viz, leave that shit for ravers init 🤣
@@hyperthunk so *that's* why I don't mind wearing them! 🤪🕺🥳
@@ixifutureproof9286 lmao fair enough haha
Brilliant video, great to hear from someone ‘in the know’ as opposed to a ‘cafe lawyer.’
Find a camera useful when in rush hour traffic, the odd idiot changes their mind as soon as they see it
Always interesting. Regarding overtaking inside double white lines, remember it doesn't come down to where the tires are; if the handle bar or the panniers "cross" the line then you are committing an offense.
treat those lines like a brick wall :D
So useful this, good news regarding the odd over speed reading on camera 👍
Certainly for you Mr Chops, ‘flat, flat, flat, oh dear, no torque and I’m already doing 120mph’😉
That lawyer shifts some steel. I wonder if he loaded up that bar knowing that it was gonna be in the shot 💪🏼
Wondered about the white lines thing for decades... thanks guys!
Try to keep this short. Had bad accident roughly 2006. Insurance solicitor applied for police report 6 months later. Police realised they had fucked up and hadn't done one. Called me to police station for 'voluntary' interview. Was charged immediately after. Excuse was they couldn't interview me for 6 month because of my injuries. I had multiple broken bones and damaged nerves. (So, if you have a broken leg you can't be interviewed for 6 months!) I couldn't afford a solicitor so represented myself in court. Was against a professional prosecutor, a police officer, the driver of the car and 2 independent witnesses who were behind me on a 125 (I was on a 2005 Triumph Daytona 955i). Despite the police officer lying through her back teeth I won the case which then allowed the insurance solicitors to continue and win me £195k. If the police officer lying had cost me the case because she was covering her incompetence, I would have lost my insurance claim. So, my point is, DON'T assume the police officer dealing with your case is necessarily good at his/her job OR honest!
Yes unfortunately some Police can’t be trusted. I too discovered this when they tried to pin a speeding ticket on me with some very suspect evidence. It was a real eye opener and changed my opinion of the Police forever.
People need to cautious when interacting with the police. Don’t take all they say as correct. Some are not honest.
How else will CBT’ers upload vids of them accelerating and rev bombing into hazards they helped create themselves?! 🤷🏼♂️
@@krullingmyballs I found quite the opposite. Most gave plenty of space. Even now with a full licence, I would be happy to say 95% of car drivers are very aware of you and give you plenty of space. The other 5% are just shit, and I'd imagine they would act the same even if you were in a car. And then there is taxi's. They just act like they own the place.
@@lmlm2500 Hmmm I'm gonna have to agree with Sloppy Boggler, people drive like twats when they see L plates.
They see a big red "L" and they immediately want to overtake, even if it's fucking dangerous or illegal to do so.
Many times when I was on L's, people would be tailgating me, beeping me and trying to get past me even if I was a bit over the speed limit.
It's vastly more than 5% shit drivers where I live.
@@thomaswarren2699 its insane iv been sat on a bike that was far faster than their shitbox in terms of acceleration, could out brake their shitbox and they STILL made seriously dangerous maneuvers in stop and go traffic, tailgated, attempted to cut me off just because I had the L plate on.
It puts a target on your back and regardless of performance they attempt to bully you off the road because apparently it means your slow and can be shoved around.
I just like to watch the ride after I get back home, pretty much just scenery videos, like going on a fall leaf ride, do not like to race around anymore, being 75 years old now , with an action camera on my helmet so where I look is where the camera looks , is much more interesting than just looking straight ahead all the time. USA.
Someone's buying a second helmet today.
Good Point. Dont forget to hide the other one though
I've had 2 helmets and 2 sets of gear for a long time.
@@ixifutureproof9286 make sure the second set was bought with cash
Please do one on tinted visors!
Why? The rules are pretty obvious and common sense really. Don't wear a tinted visor when it's dark. Simple.
The easiest solution is to not bother with tinted visors and just get a pair of decent sunglasses.
@@thomaswarren2699 what about the lvls of tint? Mirrored visors? How strict the rules are? What the actual written laws are. When and why. It would just make an interesting video imo.
@@ftv8181 Tinted visors are bullshit. Fuck 'em. Get some safety glasses with transitions lenses and you won't have to bother faffing around changing visors when the light fades. Fuck all that. Transitions lenses, mate. They get darker when it's bright, and lighter when it's dark. Tinted visors are great until you go through a tunnel or under some trees, then you just end up unable to see, so you open up your visor and leave your eyes vulnerable to stones/ insects etc. If you're gonna get any other visor, get a yellow one. They increase contrast and make it easier to see when it's overcast/ raining/ foggy. But, hey, if you're a fair weather rider and you only go out when it's sunny and dry, go for it. Buy a visor to match your silver spandex man thong.
One Love
@@thomaswarren2699 problem is thats shit advice for a lot of us mate.
For me to go to transitions would be about the same cost as a new Arai because of the prescription I need.
The transition visors out there don't fit every helmet and aren't great in terms of reaction speeds.
Knowing EXACTLY what the law says/requires AND what the court interpretations have been (because precedent matters) is something that is needed. What counts as a 'dark'/tinted visor legally speaking what level of tint you can legally have on the road (id guess same % as car glass BUT unsure) and what counts as a tint. I like riding with the green rayban tint in daylight and have a preference for orange with no darkening in low light that comes from my shooting setup but whether either of those count as a prohibited tint after dusk who knows.
The problem with the laws we have is we have no idea what we are being done for/under and CANNOT know everything we do is legal because of the number of laws on the books (including some which bind us to foreign laws/international treaties) and the fact they are enforced differently in different counties in some cases plus N.I, Scottish and Welsh law being different, but ignorance of the law isn't a legal defence.
Had a good one on the way to Croft circuit. We were going to watch the touring cars but took the bikes as weather was great. Stuck in the traffic going to the circuit and the road is double whites all the way. Police bike pulls up beside us ( he's over the double whites ) and motions for the 3 of us to follow him. He leads us all the way to the gate down the other side of the road, top bloke. There was no oncoming traffic as the road was just as gridlocked past the gate.
Without a camera my accident wouldn’t have been proved a non fault in my favour.
Same for me. Sometimes there isn't anyone around when a driver does a U turn.
I had my first at fault insurance claim a year or 2 ago. The insurance company (IC) told me they 'investigated' the incident but did not look at whether the driver was on their phone or not because they didn't want to. I was so angry but they did care. The IC told me I should have had a camera and that would have proven what the driver was doing/not doing. So now I have an at fault claim against my name, even though it wasn't my fault, I lost my bike (my love) of 10 years, I paid the claim excess and that f@%$ing driver got away with it. OK, deep breath.
Another big slice of advice & information that definitely grabbed my attention. Thanks chaps, brilliant stuff.
You guys need to get this boy involved on the channel more, ignoring his brilliant legal advice, he's just a likeable lad with good humour and banter that fits 44teeth perfectly! 4-way bbb???? :D
4 way bbb, ass to ass to ass to ass then lol
The reason a startled driver steers into the biker is because, just as with bikes, you steer where you look (and likewise, the technique of looking where you want the vehicle to go applies to both, although it's more noticeable on a bike as the steering is so much more sensitive than most road cards). A sharp head turn to the right is almost always accompanied by a turn to the right.
Really informative Al. White Dalton is booked marked. Thanks.
very educational, I like this guy - talks very straight - not much wank being flannelled about, which is good. gopro max in 360 stuck to the top of a helmet on a stick all the way!
This is a great series of videos. Andrew really knows his stuff, and is well able to communicate from a bikers perspective. Please keep these coming!
I used these guys when some wrench knocked me off, can't fault em. Very useful vid lads 👍
Excellent video, keep the series with legal. Interesting and informative
Great little series for the channel. Looking forward to seeing more in the future. *thumbs up*
Fascinating series 44teeth. Love it. Debunking many myths and false truths. Keep them coming
Excellent segment...really informative thank you 44T😊
Worth remembering that even if you ride at high speed on IoM outside of posted limit sections (ie no limits) you can still be done for dangerous if your speed is likely to be seen as beyond the limits of what the police consider to be reasonable and safe.
Reciprocal agreement means you can still be prosecuted on the mainland for any traffic offence.
I absolutely love these types of videos. I find them really interesting and could happily watch them for hours lol. Keep them coming guys
This was really really informative, more of this please I found it fascinating 🧐 🏍👌👍🙌
No mention of Joe Achilles? Love this series.
Thanks! Useful to understand the difference between speeding and dangerous driving in the eyes of the law and also to understand the approximate speed thresholds where one becomes the other.
Just want to send a shoutout to whoever does the tunes for the channel. Especially on montage/traveling footage, always slaps and better than any other UA-cam motorcycle channel.
Bloody excellent and highly informative video on this one - don't think I've EVER been so engrossed in a video of legal issues in my life! Cheers lads!
Devon and Cornwall police seem to be having a crackdown on dashcams, openly posting on social media for drivers to submit their dashcam footage of dangerous drivers and they have A LOT of successful prosecutions and fines. I think its called operation snap or something. Maybe a vid on this in the future?
I saw this just before I went to Exmoor (through Dorset and Devon) so I was extra careful about getting caught doing naughty boi stuff. I've always looked out for people with dashcams before I overtake but only really a cursory check, this time I was making sure to positively ID the dash cam (easy to see most of the time, they're stuck beside, or hanging off the rear view mirror and if the screen light is on you can see it a mile away).
I have a bad feeling all police forces will start to push this, so I think we should be getting ready for that. Don't get me wrong I'm not really a dangerous rider, but I have 170bhp on tap, I love getting 'safely' low in the twisty's, and I will overtake 90% of the time.
That was a bit of a rant wasn't it? And no one bothered to read it all, shit, I wouldn't bother😂
www.north-wales.police.uk/news-and-appeals/nowhere-for-careless-and-dangerous-drivers-to-hide-as-operation-snap-launches-wales-wide been in Wales for ages....thanks to the North Wales Police being so successful!
England will end up like China in a few years with the police calling on the public to snitch on victimless crimes so they can profit from it.
I just looked at the Operation Snap article and it’s dated December, 2017!! Has it persisted to exist for three years??
@@darylclifford Wow yeah I guess its been around for a while. Only recently have they been 'bragging about it's on social media though
Scot Wilson non stop bragging in north wales.....ever since Brunstrom was there news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7096084.stm
I think the reason a driver may veer into you as you shave past with an almighty clap from the exhausts is the same reason we're told not to look down while doing our figure-of-eights. You ride/drive into what you're focusing on.
Love these sessions - more please
Brilliant! Now we know who to call in the event of needing to 😁👍
Again another brilliant video, brings a lot of clarity. Loving this series. Thanks very much. Cameras for Dashcams aren't that useful after all then. Especially in the rain, they don't see much at all. Many, many thanks guys. Brilliant job!
This solicitor is the coolest guy !!! Love how he just says it how it is 👍🏻
I was actually nudged twice by a Prius driver in picadilly circus which caused the bike to fall from under me. Since the driver nudged my tyre with his car's plastic bumper there was no visual damage and to top it all off no one in busy central offered to be a witness. I had a rear facing camera, and his insurance paid for the damage. My insurers told me if I didn't he would've got away with it.
Not as entertaining as your usual videos but by far the most interesting. Keep them coming , very informative!
These videos are really informative, thanks and keep them coming.
Really good advice thanks. Love the value you boys bring to your channel 👍
Amazing content and really useful information chaps! Please keep the vids coming as I must say, I do enjoy these info-vids as much as your other top-notch material!
Love this series! Learn something new every time. Keep em coming!!
After 25 years of policing can I point out that the attitude test speaks volumes when you stop a driver. If people are ok with me then generally its "words of advice and have a nice day" if you ride like an idiot then all bets are off and despite the advice of " I'd get them to quote chapter and verse the act and section" they do have the power to mess your day up. It's not nice telling a family someone wont be coming home tonight or picking body parts up.
Sure there was something years ago someone clocked up a load of speeding offences on cameras with no number plate but the got him with his jacket which was some rare race replica, tracked down the only dealer selling them then tracked him down.
7:49 robbery with a smile. The whole dangerous driving for speeding and up to 2 years in prison is ridiculous. Speed doesn't always mean dangerous. I've gone well into triple digits on empty motorways why shouldn't I? Because the law says no? The laws says no to lots of things that we all know are harmless. With the police now charging people through online footage and increasing fines for various things like speed, noise and parking it's not a shock that more bikers are taking their plates off.
A few corrections:
Under section 19 of the Police And Criminal Evidence (PACE) Act 1984 and code B of PACE police can seize anything they deem to be evidence of an offence. Doesn't matter if its on your helmet or not. Would they bother for a simple speeding? No. Would they do it for a dangerous driving or death by dangerous driving? Absolutely. The only difference would be where the camera is at the time police go after it. If its weeks later then they'd need to get a warrant to get it from your home address or from your car or carry out searches while you're under arrest. If its laying at the side of the road, or in your hand immediately after a serious crash, they can just take it. Section 117 of PACE allows them to use force in order to exercise their powers under PACE so don't fight it. If police seize something illegally it can't be used as evidence, so if they're telling you they're seizing something let them have it and if you think its an illegal seizure talk to your solicitor who will take it from there.
Police don't need to give you the act and code at the side of the road. If you are arrested they have to tell you what offence you're being arrested for, why you're being arrested, and the necessity for your arrest (section 24 PACE. The necessity criteria can be found under Code G of PACE). You will be given the act and code at the point of being charged, or if you're reported for summons the act and code will be posted out to you with the summons paperwork. The only time police need to give you the act at the roadside is for a stop and search (code A of PACE)
The 14 day thing is a myth. That tends to be for speed cameras and is more about their admin. Most road traffic offences tend to be summary only offences with a limit of six months to take you to court. You could get caught speeding and not hear anything about it for 3 months or more.
Police will charge for careless/inconsiderate driving all the time, its an easier win than dangerous driving. But it's less serious so I doubt his firm would get as many calls for legal representation. For dangerous diving it has to be shown that the standard of driving fell FAR below that of a careful and competent driver, where as careless driving it just has to fall below that of careful and competent driver (section 2 and 3 of the Road Traffic Act (RTA) 1988).
Basically if you're stopped by police, be polite and apologetic and 9 times out of 10 you'll just get a telling off. Eat humble pie and that'll be the end of it. Unless they're wearing a white hat as traffic officers tend to be stricter on road traffic offences as its their main job role. He's right when he says there's and attitude test, the choice is be apologetic and be told off, or be gobby and have them go over your car/bike with a fine tooth comb and look for the number plate thats not quite right, or the tire tred that's a little low etc. That said if its a serious issue like death by dangerous driving then don't say anything and lawer up when you get to the police station.
When he said about spending money on a solicitor, you don't have to if you can't afford one. You can ask for the duty solicitor and that'll be free and independent.
Hope this helps and clears a few things up. Just don't want people making decisions that could give them a criminal record or points based on information that isn't quite right.
just as you are correcting a solicitor I would just like to know what credentials or qualifications you have to be doing so?
@@Ghosty_01 this being the Internet I could tell you anything and you'd have no way of confirming it. I could be a solicitor, police officer, or just a keyboard warrior. None of which are very popular so I wouldn't want to identify as any of them for risk of reprisals. So me telling you doesn't really mean much.
If you want to confirm what I'm saying, I quoted sections from PACE. If you Google PACE and look for the legislation.gov.uk site you can go the sections of the act I have quoted and check what I'm saying. If I'm right about that, then its fair to say I'm right about the rest, or at least more likely to be.
I have edited my comment to include some more sections of legislation so what I'm saying can be corroborated. What hasn't been referenced from legislation is just my opinion based on my experience.
Believe me, don't believe me, I don't really mind.
Snowy, I’m thinking you’re a Policeman or warrior, no reason not to admit you’re a solicitor, plenty of reasons not to admit your a Policeman though.
I’d rather go with the the solicitor in this video who is willing to speak as himself in a transparent way rather then someone hiding behind a keyboard.
So yes I take what you say at face value.
10:07 lol this part hurt, "too close to home."
This is really helpful to me , especially as a new rider. Cheers chaps
Love these videos! They feel too short, longer please!!!
these are really informative. would love to see more of these
These videos are great! Very helpful and interesting too
Any chance you could educate us on filtering and what the laws says about that... thanks
Thanks for posting these informative videos. Much appreciated guys!!
Good tips for people like me, who plan to visit the UK sometime in the future!
Keeping my second set of gear to hand. Locking away the set I use after every ride!
Really good video with bucket load of useful information, thank you.
Jason, you should check with your lawyer mate if road traffic acts (infringements) can follow you from Portugal or Spain? I have seen a couple of bikers wheeling and tearing up the Spainish and Portuguese roads on occasion... I think ( could find out who they are as they have video cameras and badges with 33 tooth’s or something on them 😱😂
love these videos really helpful
Absolutely brilliant video! Thanks for making it.
What about when it's just your word against the other person in the case of a car driver doing something stupid and taking you out? If you live in the sticks it feels like that's a pretty common scenario and you can't rely on witnesses. Wouldn't a camera be useful in those circumstances?
Great content by the way 👍
Despite the points raised in the video this one is most important for me. Far too many accidents (filtering for example) where it will be your word against someone elses.
Far too many witnesses drive off from incidents aswell, I fell off a 125 years ago when I was very new to riding (grabbed the front brake too hard in wet) and multiple cars drove around me and the bike in the road
Awesome video, all the answers to the questions I've pondered over my years riding and recording! :-)
I challenged a copper here, said I was speeding, I replied I was riding defensively, he tried to take the keys out of my ignition, I pulled back and started the bike and road off, had a parish hall enquiry, showed them the video and no further action taken.
What is “ a parish hall enquiry “ ? Never heard this expression before
@@jonathangriffiths2499 it's a channel islands thing, we have States police like yours, then we have parish constables and centeniers, who hold the real power in their parishes, think of a parish as a county. My offence wasn't that severe so didn't go to the magistrates or royal court, instead it's dealt with the parish to free up the courts time, my evidence proved the states copper was a prick and he hadn't callibrated the speed gun for that stretch of road, it was well out to my speedo, and he went beyond his means touching my bike, so the parish officials squashed my offence.
Mean Bean-Machine cheers my friend . Now I know. Greetings from Poole
Fantastic Content! Great series. That last question was a corker, too!
Lots of good info! Thx
Great series, interesting and helpful as well as entertaining
Majestic video, saw you last week at Combe!
Another great video from this series 👍
This was mint, some useful stuff and lot's to think about
Really helpful videos, hopefully more to come! 👍🏼
Back when I had my 125, I used to set off the speed camera near my work every day. I thought I might save a few licenses.
After a couple of months, I was held up by a tractor, and there was a police bike sat under it, with his night stick, (or something pointy at least, not 100%) out, and he just pointed at me with it, as I went past.
Point taken. I shat it.
Bloody brilliant these :D Answered a tonne of questions :D
Never knew that about it being legal to overtake as long as you don't cross the double whites - cool!
Wish there was a video series like this for the USA
With camera footage, police can convict you for speeding using a simple distance =speed/time... Great video, really enjoy listening to this bloke
I don't live in England or Wales so this has no bearing on me. However, it's bloody interesting nonetheless.
I've seen you in Aylesbury on your husky! Looks sick in person
Trials bike in the backgtound.
Proper!
When are you and Chris gonna do a trials course for 44T?
Would make a good vid, and perhaps a good advert for trials.
Be great to get more people into the sport. Chris's offroad skills will improve, plus he won't hurt himself.
Win win all round.
So a 360 cam overides all of what he said lol, re: safe riding. For insurance it speeds up claims resolution a ton.
More of this 44T 👍
Another great PSA from 44Teeth listen up kids,,,,
Good stuff - I hope the deadlifts went well afterwards!
Great vid, great advice. I was surprised to hear how few cases were helped by a camera though. I've certainly caught footage that has greatly helped several others involved in incidents to ease their insurance dealing. One was an attempted insurance fraud too... I personally started wearing a camera after being taken out by a car driver, to then discover they had found a random 'witness' some time after the incident despite no one else stopping at the scene.
On busy London roads I've seen first hand how tricky it can be to gather witness details following an incident, people are just two busy and eager to move on, leaving a claim to be one persons word against another. So I can't help but wonder if camera footage has helped many a case to be resolved long before any legal action was required. By simply dissuading any attempts to contest a claim.
That was excellent guys many thanks.
Over taking within solid white lines is an offence in several continental countries and Police set up “ video stings,” in hot spots. Fine in U.K. in circumstances described. Just mentioned for reference as habits are sometimes hard to break and if we are ever allowed to travel to Europe (C19) and they are willing to let us in!
Excellent and very informative!
I think people fit cameras for insurance claim reasons, but it's easy to forget that even if you're not at fault your premium is still going up and you're still going to take a hit. It might not go up as much, but it's going to be in the tens or maybe hundreds of £, so not life changing.
"Max Wrist" uploader has to see this video and think again what he is uploading in facebook or also in UA-cam
That's why his friend he was riding with quickly grabbed the SD cards from Maxs cameras after his last crash, before even helping give first aid. Terrible rider, the worst.
Max wrist is in America. Completely different laws
@@Elwon20 Just to say i'm not comparing law systems. A dangerous rider is universally recognized by all. He's probably lucky he's in the US though after what he did in Italy.
Question for you, in this video you can see his friend collecting all the video evidence of the crash from the 2 victims cameras.
Is this to hide it from the Police? Or Insurance related? Or something else i've missed? ua-cam.com/video/i732Hvke8H4/v-deo.html
Thanks.
@@kmc7355 honestly im from the UK I really wouldn't know. My response was more to @Iraklis Tselegidis tbh
Excellent series
Thanks for the info, very useful
What constitutes being notified of a speeding offence. If a police officer pulls you is that classed as notified or is it only when you get something in writing?
Can you do this again but in contact with a scottish solicitor would be interesting to hear the differences up here
Great series!