MaxPax played out of his mind on those first two games. Every single encounter was met with zealots in the mineral line. MaxPax really did such a good job of demolishing that economy that terran relies on so much. What an awesome series
The viking sets a crazy tempo/tone for Protoss to deal with. Phoenix range is amazing, but the damage isn't there. (and in full fairness even though it may have been risky to fight, there were times when Phoenixes idled in battle) I thought Tempest was interesting but Protoss has a lot of expensive units that cannot get in/out of position quickly. It seemed Skytoss was either too high commitment, and couldn't really keep up with the viking/Lib. You kinda get forced off of Colossus, so i'm thinking Archon is maybe the best pivot with some Blink Stalker support but idk. Clem is amazing obviously, I'm not here to detract from that. Moreso to observe the strange RPS that Viking + MMM support creates. I wonder what Masters and GMs think would be best in that situation, because I feel like Protoss doesn't struggle with Terran much outside of this.
Storm usually, but ghosts are quite good when you can use them well. Counter attacks like we saw in Game 2 where every base is constantly threatened so the army has to split is often another way to deal with it
At the highest level, I feel toss is just dead. When you think about it ghosts have their own storm as in form of "EMP", but they are also a great CT to high templar, so toss can't storm, is forced into Colossus because disruptors simply don't work when facing skilled opposition, and Colossus get beat up real bad facing Vikings, which I believe toss really has no counter for. Maybe fully upgraded carriers but up to that point you will gel rolled around and harassed without being able to harass at all because of the Viking sky control.
Instead of Clem's "card" having the 2nd ability called "Force Multiplier" it should be called "Evac With Prejudice" or "Aggressive Evac". Imo it's more accurate than "Force Multiplier". Even "Boom Drops" would be funny and apt. 😆
YOO what an amazing series!!! :D thank you so much Winter. Sorry I'm late but enjoying this so much, thank you SO much you make my life quite better! :p The stalker micro was superb!! Always giggle when you do the scvs queens commentary haha, brilliant.
So it turns out the next two videos I was to watch, I've already watched! Now onto this one! I should be done much faster now than previously believed. Time to power hour this casting
Is psi-storm still in the game? Or was it patched out at some point? Oh, now I remember. It was during beta, the players said: "Fights are too short." David Kim responded: "We hear you and we DON'T AGREE! We are gonna replace the psistorm with something that does instant damage, and 2x as much for that special wow-effect. But in order for it to be balanced, this ability's hitchance needs to be a gamble!"
The thumbnail is pure gold xD 8:10: BRUTALITY! 17:50: Oof, lotta damage there! 18:50: Dangerous game for SCVs! Great multi-attack too. Love Max's playstyle in this one! 21:00: Trying to save the Colossi cost him dearly here. Running did nothing to save them, it just wasted what time they had left. 34:34: TREACHERY! =0 35:50: The jukes! =O 37:10: Psych! xD 38:35: I thought that one was hitting for sure! 40:40: Max getting absolutely brutalized here. So many lives thrown away in pointless aborted charges... I can't watch! 41:55: SATISFACTION AT LAST! xD 42:40: Tempests really puttin' in work here! But so are the Libs. What a game! Max was way ahead for quite a while, then Clem dodged everything and took a similar lead, the Max brought it back to even... Wild! But Vikings always win in the end. 57:57: Oof! Those balls hurt, but not how you'd expect. 1:05:00: And everyone dies. They'll be hearing from Game of Thrones' lawyers. 1:09:35: Baiting the tanks with the Probe so he could chuck a ball was very cute xD Vikings always win.
That second game was closer than it had any right to be. Maxpax was almost completely unharassed at home, dealt repeated blows to Clem's eco, and his stalker harrass chewed through so much stuff, yet Maxpax still couldn't secure a decisive economic lead, nor efficiently deal with the bioball+vikings. If those circumstances had been reversed, Protoss would've folded inside of 8 mins.
If you understand how trades work that "Stalker harass" chewed through so much of his own stuff as well lol, and it was not successful if you were paying attention to the worker kills. His later Chargelot harass was successful & did secure an economic lead so I'm not sure what you're talking about... this doesn't instantly translate into victory - Clem's army doesn't just magically vanish if he loses SCVs lol. As soon as MaxPax's tech production came online the game was only going to end one way. The circumstances could not have been reversed - casual players don't seem to understand that harassment & tech paths play out very differently for all races... so its a meaningless statement that doesn't make sense.
@40:00 Carriers vs Tempests is also highly upgrade dependent. Tempests don't need upgrades to be relevant. Carriers without upgrades are horrendously bad vs an opponent with them. They'll have less DPS than tempests when at +0 vs +3 armor, and the interceptors die incredibly quickly with no armor/shield upgrades vs +3 from the opponent; (at +0 vs +3, carriers have less DPS than tempests, even after all of their interceptors are launched, and launching all 8 interceptors takes 4* (~2.84 on faster) seconds. It ALWAYS makes sense to go into some tempests before carriers, until you get the upgrades to make carriers actually worth something. Tempests also have more range and can micro better. Granted, tempests are pretty terrible if they can be forced into a fight (though carriers aren't much better regardless if the Terran is on a decent composition, especially if they use EMP. Everything Terran has that hits air can take on either unit in a straight fight on similar supply.).
The wiffing of protoss death bowls was worth the price of admission, hats off to the combatants, I thought the Tempest were getting good value one shotting. Over.
enjoying watching the first portion, great plays by MaxPax. Game 2 won in 20 minutes. Oh no. Skim to the end of the video. No plot twists today, protoss still sucks...
disruptors seems to be really good, i don't understand why go colossi when you have those. cheap and pretty tanky, not vulnerable to viking and longer range
Colossi are more reliable and effective splash damage early on while marines are most of the Terran army and there aren’t too many Vikings to knock them down. Once Terran has enough Vikings to kill the colossi and their army becomes more marauders, disruptors become the better option.
Disrupters are very good, but Terran at the pro level are great at dodging shots and it has a long cooldown. That is a lot of resources and supply tied up in something not actively doing damage. Collosi are terrible against everything except marines, but they have very long range so the Terran can't poke in without taking some fire.
you need to have a solid standing army for disruptor to be a threat, disruptor alone, or at low number doesnt do any thing, they will just get sniped. While Colossus is good for a straight up fight 6 stalkers with 1 colossus can fight 2 medivac with 16 marines easy 6 stalkers with 1 disruptor will get destroyed by 2 medivac with 16 marines
Was kinda disappointed that it was just the same thing over and over for the last 3 games. MaxPax was simply unable to counter the vikings, disruptors are a very skill dependent unit (Not user skill but the opponents skill), and simply don't usually work at this high of a level. So how can Protoss even fight against the bio, you need Colossus. What can you do against Vikings? Basically nothing. Once Clem figured out that he simply needed Viking's, this series got boring real fast. And I think MaxPax gave it an honest try, trying to mix in Tempest and Archons at some points but yeah. I really do believe that Toss needs a solid anti-air unit. Or, just bring back storm. I mean even Terran can have EMP, Zerg can have a bunch of AOE spells but Toss can't have Storm (Ghost have their own storm in form of "EMP", that just deletes all shields and turns toss units into play dough but an also counter high templars... So yeah, I find this amusing.) I find toss quite boring to watch. Will stick to ZvT.
I'm a new fan of TvP, what a couple of nerd, get a life! So much micro, so little time... spoiler... Vikings have been op a little, for a minute, yes? wpwp
Do your own research dude 😂MaxPax crushed ShoWTimE, who has never been ranked as high as him. Neeb is retired and also never a consistent top 10 player.
first of all im not saying they are better than maxpax right now. do your homework first. second one im asking Doctor winter to show some respect regarding other legend protoss players outside korea, besides maxpax. so for the one who failed in his homework one more time im not saying maxpax is not good sure he is good player@@hivetech4903
I never released my template for sc2 key binds, but since some of you play aoe2. Here is my Aoe2 binds I find most important, ina qwerty, setup. Ctrl-shift + (group) Ctrl-Shift + F - Monasteries +D Workshops +R stables +z Town centers +S universities +q Archery, +w barracks, +A Smiths, +C castles, +e docks, +x Markets Select all land; OR, naval units (double hit of key combination): F1 (tool tips moved to f5) This is just a small change but will improve your speed in aoe2 quite fast. Allowing you to utlize the shift commands adn rallies better so your camera can focus to where you want. Never having to find a specific building for upgrades. Simply at your finger tips. The unit selection size is still at 60, so armies of 240 are hard ot manage at times. Using R movement, or patrol movements can be quite helpful, try not to have any unit standing still.. Lastly. Best improvement is the shift command.. works so good with trebs, so you can have them que up castel and town hall priorties and then will auto unpacka nd move to the next targets, and gives you the abiltiy to move your military around more freely. but what does this have to do with sc2... :)
Bullshit. Make skirmishers to scout for relics, make knights to escort the priests you're rushing out, they take longer, but wreck light cav, archers, etc. Keep making knights, continuously upgrading them, make walls, mangonel at home, and priests to guard your farms, split the cav into Two groups (or more), raid continuously, untill you have trebuchet production, transition into archer, pike, infantry, use remaining Palladin for flanking, kiting siege, etc. Or just play Byzanitine.
"Where's the counter" I literally loled. I llol
Dont lol too hard jerry
I spit my food. its was so good.
jerry out here loling out a storm (ʘ言ʘ╬)
@@aazaroth1421 75 energy a lol :)
"Maxpax as a Danish player is not going to underestimate vikings" is one of those jokes that you don't get until a second later but what a banger
fenix grabs the tank. the workers repair the tank "in air"......... "Science"
Clem in game three; absolutely sublime!
I'm equally as impressed by MaxPax.
Love your casts Winter. Keep it up!
i like the player introductions when cheesy shenanigans are happening
The alliteration at 38:50. This is why Winter is my main provider of SC2 content.
22:33 this is the quality casting that I'm here for
MaxPax played out of his mind on those first two games. Every single encounter was met with zealots in the mineral line. MaxPax really did such a good job of demolishing that economy that terran relies on so much. What an awesome series
In those 2 first games MaxPax imho looked like a Protoss Serral, near perfect in everything he did. It was a pleasure to watch.
The marine says “why the no-face”
Hey, winter. I am glad you do what you do. My newborn and I listen to you when she wakes up hungry in the middle of the night.
wow cool Terran beats Protoss yet again, again, again, again... again. Never seen that before
The viking sets a crazy tempo/tone for Protoss to deal with. Phoenix range is amazing, but the damage isn't there. (and in full fairness even though it may have been risky to fight, there were times when Phoenixes idled in battle) I thought Tempest was interesting but Protoss has a lot of expensive units that cannot get in/out of position quickly. It seemed Skytoss was either too high commitment, and couldn't really keep up with the viking/Lib. You kinda get forced off of Colossus, so i'm thinking Archon is maybe the best pivot with some Blink Stalker support but idk. Clem is amazing obviously, I'm not here to detract from that. Moreso to observe the strange RPS that Viking + MMM support creates. I wonder what Masters and GMs think would be best in that situation, because I feel like Protoss doesn't struggle with Terran much outside of this.
The traditional solution is Storm, but Clem is too good with his Ghosts.
Storm usually, but ghosts are quite good when you can use them well. Counter attacks like we saw in Game 2 where every base is constantly threatened so the army has to split is often another way to deal with it
At the highest level, I feel toss is just dead. When you think about it ghosts have their own storm as in form of "EMP", but they are also a great CT to high templar, so toss can't storm, is forced into Colossus because disruptors simply don't work when facing skilled opposition, and Colossus get beat up real bad facing Vikings, which I believe toss really has no counter for. Maybe fully upgraded carriers but up to that point you will gel rolled around and harassed without being able to harass at all because of the Viking sky control.
The ghost emp would essentially one shot all archons so that would be a poor comp imo.
@@erkerguldon't underestimate disruptors, from the Terran POV you can be 70 supply up but can't finish the game because of this one unit
Instead of Clem's "card" having the 2nd ability called "Force Multiplier" it should be called "Evac With Prejudice" or "Aggressive Evac".
Imo it's more accurate than "Force Multiplier".
Even "Boom Drops" would be funny and apt. 😆
I like Boom Drops
These are my favorite players. All their games are insane.
you are possibly the most enthusiastic caster, looking forward to your posts every single day.
“I’ll just give you the Ooohs and ahhhs of it… AAahhhh, ooh” very true to your word Winter
YOO what an amazing series!!! :D thank you so much Winter. Sorry I'm late but enjoying this so much, thank you SO much you make my life quite better! :p The stalker micro was superb!!
Always giggle when you do the scvs queens commentary haha, brilliant.
I come for the honesty, I stay for the brenda!?
I think this is the Angriest ive seen Winter at Billy. 28:29, also i love that he says sorry.
"The Venn diagram of freedom" at 41:45 killed me :)
"Wheres the counter?" got me good!
Always looking forward to your videos literally every night 🙏🏼
Time for another rousing round of Terran Wins
Always making great content sir. Getting back into SC thanks to you. Thanks for all you do
Great games. Great commentary. Thank you very much!
So it turns out the next two videos I was to watch, I've already watched! Now onto this one! I should be done much faster now than previously believed. Time to power hour this casting
theses colors of units more flashy is made by the map or there is parameter we can change?
15:26 maxpax kills all of the unimportant addons lol
Is psi-storm still in the game? Or was it patched out at some point?
Oh, now I remember. It was during beta, the players said:
"Fights are too short."
David Kim responded: "We hear you and we DON'T AGREE! We are gonna replace the psistorm with something that does instant damage, and 2x as much for that special wow-effect. But in order for it to be balanced, this ability's hitchance needs to be a gamble!"
The thumbnail is pure gold xD
8:10: BRUTALITY!
17:50: Oof, lotta damage there!
18:50: Dangerous game for SCVs! Great multi-attack too. Love Max's playstyle in this one!
21:00: Trying to save the Colossi cost him dearly here. Running did nothing to save them, it just wasted what time they had left.
34:34: TREACHERY! =0
35:50: The jukes! =O
37:10: Psych! xD
38:35: I thought that one was hitting for sure!
40:40: Max getting absolutely brutalized here. So many lives thrown away in pointless aborted charges... I can't watch!
41:55: SATISFACTION AT LAST! xD
42:40: Tempests really puttin' in work here! But so are the Libs.
What a game! Max was way ahead for quite a while, then Clem dodged everything and took a similar lead, the Max brought it back to even... Wild! But Vikings always win in the end.
57:57: Oof! Those balls hurt, but not how you'd expect.
1:05:00: And everyone dies. They'll be hearing from Game of Thrones' lawyers.
1:09:35: Baiting the tanks with the Probe so he could chuck a ball was very cute xD
Vikings always win.
That second game was closer than it had any right to be.
Maxpax was almost completely unharassed at home, dealt repeated blows to Clem's eco, and his stalker harrass chewed through so much stuff, yet Maxpax still couldn't secure a decisive economic lead, nor efficiently deal with the bioball+vikings.
If those circumstances had been reversed, Protoss would've folded inside of 8 mins.
If you understand how trades work that "Stalker harass" chewed through so much of his own stuff as well lol, and it was not successful if you were paying attention to the worker kills. His later Chargelot harass was successful & did secure an economic lead so I'm not sure what you're talking about... this doesn't instantly translate into victory - Clem's army doesn't just magically vanish if he loses SCVs lol. As soon as MaxPax's tech production came online the game was only going to end one way.
The circumstances could not have been reversed - casual players don't seem to understand that harassment & tech paths play out very differently for all races... so its a meaningless statement that doesn't make sense.
Maxpax was kind of all in, his stalker attack failed but bought him time to eco up.
My day is a little better.
Thankyou.
@40:00 Carriers vs Tempests is also highly upgrade dependent. Tempests don't need upgrades to be relevant. Carriers without upgrades are horrendously bad vs an opponent with them. They'll have less DPS than tempests when at +0 vs +3 armor, and the interceptors die incredibly quickly with no armor/shield upgrades vs +3 from the opponent; (at +0 vs +3, carriers have less DPS than tempests, even after all of their interceptors are launched, and launching all 8 interceptors takes 4* (~2.84 on faster) seconds. It ALWAYS makes sense to go into some tempests before carriers, until you get the upgrades to make carriers actually worth something. Tempests also have more range and can micro better.
Granted, tempests are pretty terrible if they can be forced into a fight (though carriers aren't much better regardless if the Terran is on a decent composition, especially if they use EMP. Everything Terran has that hits air can take on either unit in a straight fight on similar supply.).
I'm sorry but Terrans dodging banes, disruptors and more will never not impress me.
Vikings are great, they fly, sometimes they shoot up and sometimes they shoot down. As a Bronze League hero myself I find them excellent
How are the pheonix lift targets getting knocked down?
Winter mate the cards are just too good xD Been watching you since hots and it just gets better and better xD great work dude
Clem vs MaxPax? I'm 100% in, lets go Winter.
Yes, this MaxPax vs. Clem! :D
31:59 very Nice indeed...
"Clem is playing so carefully."
No disrespect to Maxpax but am I the only one who thought it looked like he was playing with his food?
please stay as you are Winter. 😊😊
Great cast 👏... what an entertaining match.
I recently subbed, great content
How good is winter’s commentary
@@JayyKq He has great commentary honestly.
I got the same T-shirt, Winter. Good taste!
Love your cast winter your terrible dad jokes make me die everytime. Especially when you quit halfway cause you know it's bad lmao kills me everytime!
FOP (forward operating pylons) prolly woulda one this for Hero?
The wiffing of protoss death bowls was worth the price of admission, hats off to the combatants, I thought the Tempest were getting good value one shotting.
Over.
mother fucking clem, i want to see a protoss brother win
Clem is best Terran now imo. What a Victory
enjoying watching the first portion, great plays by MaxPax. Game 2 won in 20 minutes. Oh no. Skim to the end of the video.
No plot twists today, protoss still sucks...
insane!!
disruptors seems to be really good, i don't understand why go colossi when you have those. cheap and pretty tanky, not vulnerable to viking and longer range
Friendly fire, sad zealots, lack of “shoot and scoot” ability
Colossi are more reliable and effective splash damage early on while marines are most of the Terran army and there aren’t too many Vikings to knock them down. Once Terran has enough Vikings to kill the colossi and their army becomes more marauders, disruptors become the better option.
With just one robo production, you can't reliably achieve and maintain a critical mass of disruptors in time to stave off bio timing attacks.
Disrupters are very good, but Terran at the pro level are great at dodging shots and it has a long cooldown. That is a lot of resources and supply tied up in something not actively doing damage. Collosi are terrible against everything except marines, but they have very long range so the Terran can't poke in without taking some fire.
you need to have a solid standing army for disruptor to be a threat, disruptor alone, or at low number doesnt do any thing, they will just get sniped. While Colossus is good for a straight up fight
6 stalkers with 1 colossus can fight 2 medivac with 16 marines easy
6 stalkers with 1 disruptor will get destroyed by 2 medivac with 16 marines
very hyped!
Was kinda disappointed that it was just the same thing over and over for the last 3 games. MaxPax was simply unable to counter the vikings, disruptors are a very skill dependent unit (Not user skill but the opponents skill), and simply don't usually work at this high of a level. So how can Protoss even fight against the bio, you need Colossus. What can you do against Vikings? Basically nothing.
Once Clem figured out that he simply needed Viking's, this series got boring real fast. And I think MaxPax gave it an honest try, trying to mix in Tempest and Archons at some points but yeah. I really do believe that Toss needs a solid anti-air unit. Or, just bring back storm. I mean even Terran can have EMP, Zerg can have a bunch of AOE spells but Toss can't have Storm (Ghost have their own storm in form of "EMP", that just deletes all shields and turns toss units into play dough but an also counter high templars... So yeah, I find this amusing.)
I find toss quite boring to watch. Will stick to ZvT.
Do Protoss even win anymore? Ever?
Spoiler!
Protoss lost again.
It's me, or Protoss air is bad?
Where is the counter joke jajajajs
thank You
Om nom nom
I'm a new fan of TvP, what a couple of nerd, get a life!
So much micro, so little time...
spoiler...
Vikings have been op a little, for a minute, yes? wpwp
🤰
:)
🍿
never not nuke
what you meen the best protos outside Korea ? thats an insult to the legend Neeb and the wall Showtime. dammit winter do some research
Do your own research dude 😂MaxPax crushed ShoWTimE, who has never been ranked as high as him. Neeb is retired and also never a consistent top 10 player.
first of all im not saying they are better than maxpax right now. do your homework first. second one im asking Doctor winter to show some respect regarding other legend protoss players outside korea, besides maxpax. so for the one who failed in his homework one more time im not saying maxpax is not good sure he is good player@@hivetech4903
I never released my template for sc2 key binds, but since some of you play aoe2. Here is my Aoe2 binds I find most important, ina qwerty, setup.
Ctrl-shift + (group)
Ctrl-Shift + F - Monasteries
+D Workshops
+R stables
+z Town centers
+S universities
+q Archery, +w barracks, +A Smiths, +C castles, +e docks, +x Markets
Select all land; OR, naval units (double hit of key combination): F1 (tool tips moved to f5)
This is just a small change but will improve your speed in aoe2 quite fast. Allowing you to utlize the shift commands adn rallies better so your camera can focus to where you want. Never having to find a specific building for upgrades. Simply at your finger tips.
The unit selection size is still at 60, so armies of 240 are hard ot manage at times.
Using R movement, or patrol movements can be quite helpful, try not to have any unit standing still..
Lastly. Best improvement is the shift command.. works so good with trebs, so you can have them que up castel and town hall priorties and then will auto unpacka nd move to the next targets, and gives you the abiltiy to move your military around more freely.
but what does this have to do with sc2... :)
Bullshit. Make skirmishers to scout for relics, make knights to escort the priests you're rushing out, they take longer, but wreck light cav, archers, etc.
Keep making knights, continuously upgrading them, make walls, mangonel at home, and priests to guard your farms, split the cav into Two groups (or more), raid continuously, untill you have trebuchet production, transition into archer, pike, infantry, use remaining Palladin for flanking, kiting siege, etc.
Or just play Byzanitine.