So glad you are responding to this Brother Doug! James White covered it on the Dividing Line yesterday and I was hoping you got it! We need a Sweatervest Dialog asap too please sir. Solus Christus Mr. Doug.
Became postmil and theonomic over the past 2.5 years thanks to Doug and the Moscow crew. Before that was scared off from him because of the Federal Vision controversy. Listen to both sides before making a conclusion. Glad i came back around, been a huge blessing while working through tough real world life problems.
@@interestedmeow It relates to covenant theology, which is why it is sour in the mouth to most Baptists. Are children born to believers in the new covenant community of Christ.
@SydneyBell-eh6je correct, no state religion such as England has a "church of England". Basically the state cannot get behind a particular denomination. It can most certainly be based upon the Christian faith though.
'Our speech should be gracious, seasoned with a Carolina Reaper"......NQN less than two weeks away and shall we not be privileged to some of that Carolina Reaper speak?
Pastor Doug, I don't know if you read these comments, but I hope this one gets to you. I am a pastor living in Canada. It's dangerous to be a pastor in Canada since the onset of the covid narrative. We did not conform, and we were the only church in our town who refused to bend the knee to Caesar. The price was high. My family are looking for any way to move to a red state south of the border, but we want to do it legally. I'm willing to stack shelves at a grocery store if need be. Do you have any wisdom or insight for us? Blessings!
If you are looking for a state that needs strong Christian leaders, might I humbly suggest oklahoma. I live near Tulsa, which was inundated by the prosperity gospel, central hub of Oral Roberts. If you can stand the crazy weather and humidity, there is a tremendous field in need of faithful ministers to reap the harvest I believe God will bring. I will pray you are able to make it to freedom regardless.
Look into Blount County Tennessee, we have many churches, but only two fantastic ones. So there is amazing Biblical community there with much need for reform in this community. Also is economically one of the best places to move to right now
Brother, as a layperson, my concern is that your name is plain for all to see in your comment. Does your flock know their shepherd seeks to flee the Canadian Ceasar? Are they on board? If any of them were to see your comment, here, will they be surprised? Will they possibly be hurt? No need to respond. I’m not presuming to correct you, here, nor to carry on a conversation. I am am simply concerned that there might be the possibility that you do not realize that your question for Pastor Wilson is not anonymous. God bless you as you protect and lead the people in your Church in these dangerous days.
I’m with Doug on this one: Christians are under grace, to repent, to obey, usually with much stumbling and much mercy, but everyone else is under The Law, and a law unimplemented, without real punishments, sometimes harsh, is like a wolf without teeth; nothing to be afraid of 😳
I remember listening to Greg Bahnsen speak about Theonomy and give (in great detail) the dynamic between revival in the citizenry and the role and responsibilities of the magistrate. I have found that over time, while there are differences in both style and certain points, Doug's expressed position is in a comfortable place somewhere alongside what I believe Dr. Bahnsen would agree with.
Doug, you're so right. I just left the church I've been at my entire life. The tipping point for me was realizing Daniel 2, 7, and 9 have all been fulfilled at Christ's first coming. The hinge of the dispensationalist scheme depends entirely on a belief that the 70th week has yet to happen. They have to think that Daniel 2, 7, and 9 haven't been fulfilled yet because it disagrees with their outlook of failure. My eyes have been opened. You should speak more on Daniel. It is the glue that holds their scheme together.
But Daniel 9, the 70th week hasn't happened. 483 years happened until Christ's death. After that, the New Covenant began, Jesus sent His disciples (unto the whole world). There's still 7 years to happen "upon thy people, and thy holy city". You can't argue against that.
@@benjaminbelcher2739 Even if we didn't know what is still it happen, that wouldn't be the question. The question is a time one. How can God DECREE 490 years of relationship with the jewish people and only deliver 483 years? What kind of God is that? The point is that since Christ's death and ressurection there wasn't a single period where God has dealt with the jews specifically (like He did during the first 69 weeks described there). They started at the order to rebuild Jerusalem, and they ended with Christ's death. Since the New Covenant was inaugurated the 70 weeks count has stopped. It needs to resume.
@@benjaminbelcher2739Daniel explicitly says that after 69 weeks. , the messiah will be cut off. So please tell me which years in the AD reckoning were years 1-7 of the tribulation. Thank you
I find it very interesting that many of these church's will scream they want separation of church and state, yet when the state tells them they can't have church for a year they are more than happy to comply.
Dialogue between Thomas More and the Duke of Norfolk from the 1966 film A Man For All Seasons: "What do you value in your bulldogs? Gripping, is it not?" - "Yes." - "It's their nature?" - "Yes." - "It's why you breed them? It's so with men." (screenplay by Robert Bolt, based on his 1960 play)
@@Guy-xr8lj This is bullshit And you know it Your exact ideology led to drag queen story hour If you dont have the confidence to enforce your so called "Bible moral framework". You dont really believe in it
@@goyonman9655say he is rounding 90 (or 80 or whatever) and is beginning to lose a mental step or two. A wise man would at that point begin planning a transfer of responsibility…
I found the same quote, the "force of government is not the means by which the standard is to be established." the shining red thumb smashed by a hammer. The problem is thus, the force of government will be the means that SOME standard is established. If not biblical standards which ones? He goes on to explain that grocery stores can "function" with out the proclamation that Christ is lord. I surmise that they cannot, indeed are not currently, and as evidence I give Walgreens mass exodus from California.
The standard must be established by the church in the culture; the standard established, the state can carry on a part of it. The state has neither the right nor the ability to create a standard, as it lacks the right to enforce or induce changes of conscience, merely the right to, as per Romans 13, reward good and punish evil, which categories are further circumscribed by the rest of Scripture to not cover the secret heart of men. On a pragmatic scale, if you try to establish a righteous standard via the state without first having established it in the people, you rapidly find that the state isn't doing squat for you because the people kicked you out and made their own standard king. From the people's consent comes the practical power of the government, in God's usual working of thing.
@@robertlewis6915 your last statement that this is the usual, is not though. This is how the U.S. came about, but we are the exception not the rule. Not to mention you made my point, governments will be established. The force of a government is ever present. Are we to force pagan laws on to Christians or Christian laws on to pagans?
@@robertlewis6915 what you are saying is that Christians must live under the force of pagan laws, while those laws teach our children, direct our businesses, control our income, and even tell us when and what not to blaspheme. All while trying to teach our children that the wold view they live under is the wrong one and we do nothing to change it.
@@kellygipson8354 1. From a pragmatic standpoint, barring anarchy, we are going to live under some sort of government with some sort of laws. If they are not Christian laws, they will be (by virtue of the logical law of excluded middle) pagan laws. 2. I argue that while Christians can and have lived under pagan laws, as in Rome or (to a lesser extent) modern America, it would be preferable to live under Christian laws. 3. By Christian laws I mean laws which both reflect God's moral dictates and reflect the restraint he places upon the state. Also, please, please use one comment to answer. It keeps me from writing an entire comment, posting, and then realizing I misunderstood because I only saw half of the response. To be clear, my 'usually' meant 'barring supernatural interference', not 'in most cases'. 1. That all states exist by consent of the governed is simply a fact of reality. The French Revolution showed this. States which appear to ignore the consent of the governed but still remain alive in history do this by possessing sufficient mass of persons to counterweight whatever small group would remove consent (Rome) or by having a culture which upholds the tyranny (Akkad, etc.) or by having a determined and active minority opposed to a lethargic minority (Nazi Germany). Long-term, though, unless the people as a whole agree to listen, the government will not survive. 2. From a pragmatic perspective, while a Christian state could endeavor to impose Christian morals wholesale, a pagan culture would simply refuse to listen. Even if we said that consent of the governed applied only to America, well, we live in America. 3. From a moral perspective, the Bible limits state power, and therefore we can only impose so much morality on a nation via the state without ourselves committing immorality. It is not good to commit evil that good may come of it. I do advocate for changing our state to be more moral. If you gave me a shiny red button that I could press and make the US government consistent with the Bible, I would do it in a heartbeat. I just wouldn't expect that to fix the culture. Culture is upstream of politics, after all. Therefore, culture should be the first concern, with politics currently being a secondary battlefield where we seek tactical but not strategic victories. Why? Because if we managed to outlaw abortion in law (a very good thing) but failed to teach the culture that abortion was bad... give it a decade at most before abortion is back to being legal. My argument is not that we should abandon the state. I argue rather that our path to changing the state is through changing the culture, though of course efforts directly towards the state are far from wrong. In all truth, though, we should be working to reform the church first. Without a solid church the culture cannot be re-won, though obviously re-taking the church will happen concurrently with the culture wars and with reforming the state.
@@robertlewis6915 Just to be clear, you are defending theonomy intentionally, right? Some of your comments seem to be framed as disagreements but your stated position is pure and admirable theonomy.
Can someone fill me in on what to expect from Doug, in two weeks? I did see the video ads for November. However, I didn't see the actual contents he created for that month. I'm getting the impression that this guy has a strong sense of satirical whits about him. Yes, I do mean sarcasm in a good sense.
Love you brother! God bless y’all n’ keep kickin’ ass To The Glory Of God-whilst singing* SOLI DEO GLORIA (To The Glory Of God Alone) Father, Son & Holy Spirit -Ronnie
There is already a universal standard, and when there are unjust laws, there is tyrrany. The just laws come from the law of God which is perfectly just, and not only that but the laws of God are capable of mercy where the cruel weight of the tyrants law is unmerciful. Think of the master returning to his three servants with the talents. The wicked servant worried about the good Master being unjust because the wicked servants deeds were unjust.
@@robertlewis6915 Doug was referring to the criticism that Longshore has received since changing his eschatological views and becoming a resident of Moscow, ID.
@@raypaget815 I understood the context differently. It seemed to me that Wilson was referring to their apparent falling out and noting that while they had disagreements they did not have enmity.
Are their any? Every hyper-preterists I've seen is quite opposed to all the major end-times view. I don't get how one could believe postmil (or any other view that there are still unfulfilled prophesies) and be a full preterism heretic who believes that all prophesy has been fulfilled. They are opposites.
@@junkerjorg6310 All of them? Apostles creed: I believe in... The resurrection of the body And the life everlasting. Amen Athanasian Creed: Now this is the true faith: ... He is seated at the Father's right hand; From there he will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people will arise bodily And give an accounting of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, And those who have done evil will enter eternal fire. This is the Catholic faith: one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully. Nicean Creed: ... He [Jesus] will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will never end. ... We look forward to the resurrection of the dead, and to life in the world to come. Amen. Those are _the_ big three creeds, and all of them condemn the full preterism heresy. Hyper preterists are outside of orthodox Christianity by the most widely accepted measure of orthodoxy.
Doug Wilson uses zero Biblical text to lay a foundation to his post millennial position. Zero. Jews are back in Israel yet that means nothing. They are being attacked on all sides, but that means nothing. The Church is mostly apostate. That means nothing. Doug, your Biblical world view is wrong. But you’ll figure it out for yourself pretty soon.
The word of God is the only sword I carry, and salt is my only seasoning. Sorry Doug, I disagree, a serrated edge is not the proper tool, and Carolina Reapers are the wrong seasoning...
I see what you did there. Unlike the secret rapture, which for some reason goes completely unnoticed even though the dead have been resurrected and the living have been carried aloft to stand alongside the returning Christ.
Christians are empowered for victory through Great Commission AND Post-Mil is just plain unbiblical. (simply read Revelation 20:3-6, and this becomes obvious). Doug: I honestly think you should RENAME your position. Post-Mil is anti-biblical, but advancing Christ’s kingdom is fully biblical. As long as you keep calling yourself Post-Mil, you are going to keep alienating people who can read. Again, I love your emphasis and you are correct. But your NAME is WRONG!
While i can u derstand your point of a government whose laws are shaped by strong Christian belief and thus promote the Christian faith and obedience I have to say you have misquoted Roman's 4:13. I'm aware you know that the Law mentioned is the ten commandments along with the various laws given throughout the pentetuech not law in a general sense so I do not know why you would use this passage to say that laws shaped by biblical principles in this or any country would apply to this passage since this is judaic law being referred to here. The law is now written on our hearts not on stone. I would also like to say I do not see the NT writers sharing this view. I think I read somewhere we are foreigners and our citizenship is not here but in heaven and yes on the great day of the Lord heaven and earth will essentially become one. I say these things with respect to you sir.
Great response. Unfortunately some of the brethren in your campsite don't believe the same campsite philosophies that you just laid out. Mr Wolf to name a name. I have no doubt discipleship is taking place.
@brettmagnuson8318 I'd say in practical terms he doesn't even hold to that. He may claim the title, but he doesn't hold the beliefs behind the title. Blasphemy laws are so part and parcel to theonomy and Doug is against them, or he thinks they should only be for the state. How could expect the state to prosecute its own blasphemy? Also, the state is made up of individuals. Blasphemy laws must apply to all individuals, whether private citizens or public officials, and the state must enforce them. He also thinks that we can't institute any kind of Christianity in our government unless there are enough Christians for doing so. Practically speaking, the only way our government becomes vastly Christian is with a Christian population, but he'd oppose a civil magistrate governing in a distinctly Christian way in which he is applying Christian morality on the population whether they like it or not. In other words, if Kim Jong Un became a Christian overnight, Doug would be against him instituting Biblical Law because the population of North Korea was pagan still. But Kim Jong Un could turn the entire nation Christian by wielding the power he previously unlawfully obtained and exercised in now a lawful way to transform the nation overnight. Doug is an autopilot, revivalist postmill (Stephen Wolfe has said as much).
@@JR-rs5qs has actually Doug said he would oppose Kim Jong Un if this happened? Or is it assumed because of how he is dealing practically with our government system?
@brettmagnuson8318 no, he hasn't said that specifically. I'm using it for analogy's sake. Wolfe has even mentioned how Doug doesn't think a civil magistrate can govern in a distinctly Christian way unless the populace is majority Christian. The best advice I can give is to listen to Doug's 2016 book Empires of Dirt. It was his true Christian Nationalist work. Then listen to Mere Christendom. Pay close attention to what Doug is actually saying in Mere Christendom and don't get caught up in his wit, humor, complaints on the current order, etc. You'll find that he's massively backed away from his previous, more bold position and now is rather pietistic when it comes to civil magistrate. It's an extremely disappointing change.
@@DM-dk7js if you have a hard time understanding his way of speaking, you can read his blog at your own pace, or his books. But it sounds like you are insinuating that Mr. Wilson is trying to sound smart when he isn't.
@@levimahan2393it’s not really an insult. I’m just saying I believe he talks in an overly intentionally complicated and metaphorical way as a device to come off substantive and intelligent.
8:21 this is a poor phrasing of the critique and you know it. The critique is that you have explicitly claimed Christ’s command is to disciple the nation state. This would have been incoherent to the 12, as both the idea of a nation state was still over a millenia away and there’s no way they could have baptized one of this in the Jordan if they had it anyway. Also, your equivalency of nations/nation-states and eggs/omelettes is both false and useless. You might as well have said that Christ told us to disciple Egg-o waffles. I mean sure, I imagine an egg factors into it at some point….but making waffles our focus in order to get to those eggs is plainly missing the clear point. Dangerously so.
6:30 frankly it doesn’t matter Doug. It’s a earthly power falsely wielding a piss-poor interpretation of the Scriptures as a hammer to crush those of us who dissent about the way he is using that power. Frankly, I’d rather be crushed by hammer that is plainly evil, than one wielded by one of your grandson’s disciples. Things are just easier to understand when the unrighteousness is being carried out by a tyrant who clearly hates the Lord I love. You are setting the footings for a future anti-Christ. Saying, ‘well would that anti-Christ be obey God or not?’ is just avoiding honestly answering the question.
So, you are admitting that you prefer to serve Satan. You have put your trust in Satan, and you trust godless demonic secularists more than Christians. I am guessing you attended government schools and your master’s college. Of course, there is little difference between government schools and most modern ‘Christian’ schools, so I could be wrong.
Anti Christ's have come and gone. Go back to the text. It says they deny the Father and the son. John said it was the "last hour" to his original first century audience. 1 John 2:18
@@robertlewis6915it's not about preference but the fact that an evil state(s) will prevail untill Christ's return. And it would be easier, better if the evil state was not hiding behind religion.
So glad you are responding to this Brother Doug! James White covered it on the Dividing Line yesterday and I was hoping you got it! We need a Sweatervest Dialog asap too please sir. Solus Christus Mr. Doug.
"We don't think so, Scooter!" got a real belly laugh out of me.
Yep, I'm still chuckling. 😊
Became postmil and theonomic over the past 2.5 years thanks to Doug and the Moscow crew. Before that was scared off from him because of the Federal Vision controversy. Listen to both sides before making a conclusion. Glad i came back around, been a huge blessing while working through tough real world life problems.
Federal Vision has been papered over by PostMil Theonomy but rest assured, it is still there.
@@interestedmeow It relates to covenant theology, which is why it is sour in the mouth to most Baptists. Are children born to believers in the new covenant community of Christ.
@SydneyBell-eh6je our laws are already based on religion.
@SydneyBell-eh6je correct, no state religion such as England has a "church of England". Basically the state cannot get behind a particular denomination. It can most certainly be based upon the Christian faith though.
@@philipmurray9796 why would it need to be based upon the Christian faith? Why not Sikhism?
I love everything you said bro.... Seems like both camps should be doing the same work.... Striving for the same goal... Well done sir 👍
'Our speech should be gracious, seasoned with a Carolina Reaper"......NQN less than two weeks away and shall we not be privileged to some of that Carolina Reaper speak?
Pastor Doug, I don't know if you read these comments, but I hope this one gets to you. I am a pastor living in Canada. It's dangerous to be a pastor in Canada since the onset of the covid narrative. We did not conform, and we were the only church in our town who refused to bend the knee to Caesar. The price was high. My family are looking for any way to move to a red state south of the border, but we want to do it legally. I'm willing to stack shelves at a grocery store if need be. Do you have any wisdom or insight for us? Blessings!
If you are looking for a state that needs strong Christian leaders, might I humbly suggest oklahoma. I live near Tulsa, which was inundated by the prosperity gospel, central hub of Oral Roberts.
If you can stand the crazy weather and humidity, there is a tremendous field in need of faithful ministers to reap the harvest I believe God will bring.
I will pray you are able to make it to freedom regardless.
Look into Blount County Tennessee, we have many churches, but only two fantastic ones. So there is amazing Biblical community there with much need for reform in this community. Also is economically one of the best places to move to right now
May I suggest that you may be where you're most needed.
Brother, as a layperson, my concern is that your name is plain for all to see in your comment. Does your flock know their shepherd seeks to flee the Canadian Ceasar? Are they on board? If any of them were to see your comment, here, will they be surprised? Will they possibly be hurt? No need to respond. I’m not presuming to correct you, here, nor to carry on a conversation.
I am am simply concerned that there might be the possibility that you do not realize that your question for Pastor Wilson is not anonymous. God bless you as you protect and lead the people in your Church in these dangerous days.
@@user-mx3kh8rj1t They know
Reformed Baptist theonomic post millennial here! 🤚🏼👊🏼
they do exist! 😁 more psalms!
same!
We do exist.
Same here!
Amen! 😊
I share virtually no theological similarities to you but I love your work. It’s awesome!
I found the "politics is an area to be saved, that doesn't make it a savior" point really good, hadn't considered it. Will continue to do so.
Love Pastor Doug seeing good of a bad situation (the embargo).
I’m with Doug on this one: Christians are under grace, to repent, to obey, usually with much stumbling and much mercy, but everyone else is under The Law, and a law unimplemented, without real punishments, sometimes harsh, is like a wolf without teeth; nothing to be afraid of 😳
That is the greatest description of baptists i have ever heard.
I remember listening to Greg Bahnsen speak about Theonomy and give (in great detail) the dynamic between revival in the citizenry and the role and responsibilities of the magistrate. I have found that over time, while there are differences in both style and certain points, Doug's expressed position is in a comfortable place somewhere alongside what I believe Dr. Bahnsen would agree with.
3:44 “quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore” is a reference to Poe’s “the Raven”
Good stuff, yet again.
Doug, you're so right. I just left the church I've been at my entire life. The tipping point for me was realizing Daniel 2, 7, and 9 have all been fulfilled at Christ's first coming.
The hinge of the dispensationalist scheme depends entirely on a belief that the 70th week has yet to happen. They have to think that Daniel 2, 7, and 9 haven't been fulfilled yet because it disagrees with their outlook of failure. My eyes have been opened. You should speak more on Daniel. It is the glue that holds their scheme together.
But Daniel 9, the 70th week hasn't happened.
483 years happened until Christ's death. After that, the New Covenant began, Jesus sent His disciples (unto the whole world). There's still 7 years to happen "upon thy people, and thy holy city". You can't argue against that.
@@LRibeiro97 I absolutely can. Tell me what is left to be fulfilled for the 70 weeks to be completed?
@@benjaminbelcher2739
Even if we didn't know what is still it happen, that wouldn't be the question.
The question is a time one.
How can God DECREE 490 years of relationship with the jewish people and only deliver 483 years? What kind of God is that?
The point is that since Christ's death and ressurection there wasn't a single period where God has dealt with the jews specifically (like He did during the first 69 weeks described there). They started at the order to rebuild Jerusalem, and they ended with Christ's death.
Since the New Covenant was inaugurated the 70 weeks count has stopped. It needs to resume.
@@benjaminbelcher2739Daniel explicitly says that after 69 weeks.
, the messiah will be cut off. So please tell me which years in the AD reckoning were years 1-7 of the tribulation. Thank you
@@cosmictreason2242 does it say the tribulation lasts 7 years?
I find it very interesting that many of these church's will scream they want separation of church and state, yet when the state tells them they can't have church for a year they are more than happy to comply.
Doug, have you ever taken a long look at Conditionalism? Fudge’s book “The Fire that Consumes” in particular. I would love to hear your assessment.
Dialogue between Thomas More and the Duke of Norfolk from the 1966 film A Man For All Seasons:
"What do you value in your bulldogs? Gripping, is it not?"
- "Yes."
- "It's their nature?"
- "Yes."
- "It's why you breed them? It's so with men."
(screenplay by Robert Bolt, based on his 1960 play)
A Christian prince would be like George Washington, imperfect but willing to give up power.
"Willing to give up power"
HOW is this a good thing?????
@@goyonman9655 because we don't want a monarchy. We want to return back to a government by the people based on a moral framework of the Bible.
@@Guy-xr8lj
This is bullshit
And you know it
Your exact ideology led to drag queen story hour
If you dont have the confidence to enforce your so called "Bible moral framework". You dont really believe in it
@@goyonman9655say he is rounding 90 (or 80 or whatever) and is beginning to lose a mental step or two. A wise man would at that point begin planning a transfer of responsibility…
@@brettmagnuson8318
A wise man would give it to his son. Or someone qualified he's brought up
I found the same quote, the "force of government is not the means by which the standard is to be established." the shining red thumb smashed by a hammer.
The problem is thus, the force of government will be the means that SOME standard is established. If not biblical standards which ones? He goes on to explain that grocery stores can "function" with out the proclamation that Christ is lord. I surmise that they cannot, indeed are not currently, and as evidence I give Walgreens mass exodus from California.
The standard must be established by the church in the culture; the standard established, the state can carry on a part of it. The state has neither the right nor the ability to create a standard, as it lacks the right to enforce or induce changes of conscience, merely the right to, as per Romans 13, reward good and punish evil, which categories are further circumscribed by the rest of Scripture to not cover the secret heart of men.
On a pragmatic scale, if you try to establish a righteous standard via the state without first having established it in the people, you rapidly find that the state isn't doing squat for you because the people kicked you out and made their own standard king. From the people's consent comes the practical power of the government, in God's usual working of thing.
@@robertlewis6915 your last statement that this is the usual, is not though. This is how the U.S. came about, but we are the exception not the rule. Not to mention you made my point, governments will be established. The force of a government is ever present. Are we to force pagan laws on to Christians or Christian laws on to pagans?
@@robertlewis6915 what you are saying is that Christians must live under the force of pagan laws, while those laws teach our children, direct our businesses, control our income, and even tell us when and what not to blaspheme. All while trying to teach our children that the wold view they live under is the wrong one and we do nothing to change it.
@@kellygipson8354
1. From a pragmatic standpoint, barring anarchy, we are going to live under some sort of government with some sort of laws. If they are not Christian laws, they will be (by virtue of the logical law of excluded middle) pagan laws.
2. I argue that while Christians can and have lived under pagan laws, as in Rome or (to a lesser extent) modern America, it would be preferable to live under Christian laws.
3. By Christian laws I mean laws which both reflect God's moral dictates and reflect the restraint he places upon the state.
Also, please, please use one comment to answer. It keeps me from writing an entire comment, posting, and then realizing I misunderstood because I only saw half of the response.
To be clear, my 'usually' meant 'barring supernatural interference', not 'in most cases'.
1. That all states exist by consent of the governed is simply a fact of reality. The French Revolution showed this. States which appear to ignore the consent of the governed but still remain alive in history do this by possessing sufficient mass of persons to counterweight whatever small group would remove consent (Rome) or by having a culture which upholds the tyranny (Akkad, etc.) or by having a determined and active minority opposed to a lethargic minority (Nazi Germany). Long-term, though, unless the people as a whole agree to listen, the government will not survive.
2. From a pragmatic perspective, while a Christian state could endeavor to impose Christian morals wholesale, a pagan culture would simply refuse to listen. Even if we said that consent of the governed applied only to America, well, we live in America.
3. From a moral perspective, the Bible limits state power, and therefore we can only impose so much morality on a nation via the state without ourselves committing immorality. It is not good to commit evil that good may come of it.
I do advocate for changing our state to be more moral. If you gave me a shiny red button that I could press and make the US government consistent with the Bible, I would do it in a heartbeat. I just wouldn't expect that to fix the culture. Culture is upstream of politics, after all. Therefore, culture should be the first concern, with politics currently being a secondary battlefield where we seek tactical but not strategic victories. Why? Because if we managed to outlaw abortion in law (a very good thing) but failed to teach the culture that abortion was bad... give it a decade at most before abortion is back to being legal. My argument is not that we should abandon the state. I argue rather that our path to changing the state is through changing the culture, though of course efforts directly towards the state are far from wrong.
In all truth, though, we should be working to reform the church first. Without a solid church the culture cannot be re-won, though obviously re-taking the church will happen concurrently with the culture wars and with reforming the state.
@@robertlewis6915 Just to be clear, you are defending theonomy intentionally, right? Some of your comments seem to be framed as disagreements but your stated position is pure and admirable theonomy.
Can someone fill me in on what to expect from Doug, in two weeks? I did see the video ads for November. However, I didn't see the actual contents he created for that month. I'm getting the impression that this guy has a strong sense of satirical whits about him. Yes, I do mean sarcasm in a good sense.
I believe the theme is that in No Quarter November he goes even more directly at controversial topics, and with less caveats and qualifiers.
Yes NQN is right around the corner! The most wonderful time of the year…unless you’re easily triggered
When the recipe calls for salt, sugar just won’t do.
Love you brother! God bless y’all n’ keep kickin’ ass To The Glory Of God-whilst singing*
SOLI DEO GLORIA
(To The Glory Of God Alone)
Father, Son & Holy Spirit
-Ronnie
As an Amillenial, 1689 Baptist, I'm down to clown with Christendom 2.0
👊🏼
I don’t know how many times and ways you will have to explain this before it finally clicks with the stiff necks.
There is already a universal standard, and when there are unjust laws, there is tyrrany. The just laws come from the law of God which is perfectly just, and not only that but the laws of God are capable of mercy where the cruel weight of the tyrants law is unmerciful. Think of the master returning to his three servants with the talents. The wicked servant worried about the good Master being unjust because the wicked servants deeds were unjust.
What is Doug referencing about Jared longshore?
He was Baptist and amil before
Wilson and Longshore have had some dust ups, I believe.
@@robertlewis6915 Doug was referring to the criticism that Longshore has received since changing his eschatological views and becoming a resident of Moscow, ID.
@@raypaget815 I understood the context differently. It seemed to me that Wilson was referring to their apparent falling out and noting that while they had disagreements they did not have enmity.
I'll listen to it again.@@robertlewis6915
should have said "Pepper X" instead of Reaper. lol. current pop culture and all.
The sWord is not a serrated edge. Those rip and tear unnecessarily and inefficiently. The sWord is a non-serrated edge, slaying efficiently.
Going to comment on why so many postmills are embracing full preterism? Or just keep staying quiet or minimizing their numbers?
Are they?
Are their any? Every hyper-preterists I've seen is quite opposed to all the major end-times view. I don't get how one could believe postmil (or any other view that there are still unfulfilled prophesies) and be a full preterism heretic who believes that all prophesy has been fulfilled. They are opposites.
@@oracleoftroywhich church counsel decided that full preterists are heretics?
@@junkerjorg6310 All of them?
Apostles creed:
I believe in...
The resurrection of the body
And the life everlasting. Amen
Athanasian Creed:
Now this is the true faith:
...
He is seated at the Father's right hand;
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
At his coming all people will arise bodily
And give an accounting of their own deeds.
Those who have done good will enter eternal life,
And those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.
This is the Catholic faith: one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.
Nicean Creed:
...
He [Jesus] will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will never end.
...
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead, and to life in the world to come. Amen.
Those are _the_ big three creeds, and all of them condemn the full preterism heresy. Hyper preterists are outside of orthodox Christianity by the most widely accepted measure of orthodoxy.
Doug Wilson uses zero Biblical text to lay a foundation to his post millennial position. Zero. Jews are back in Israel yet that means nothing. They are being attacked on all sides, but that means nothing. The Church is mostly apostate. That means nothing.
Doug, your Biblical world view is wrong. But you’ll figure it out for yourself pretty soon.
Your backdrop is spot on BLAH BLAH. Oh, a point is found at the end? 🙄 OH, the pride of the Presbyterian.
Jesu defend us.
The word of God is the only sword I carry, and salt is my only seasoning. Sorry Doug, I disagree, a serrated edge is not the proper tool, and Carolina Reapers are the wrong seasoning...
Im first! Unlike the rapture of the church.
I see what you did there. Unlike the secret rapture, which for some reason goes completely unnoticed even though the dead have been resurrected and the living have been carried aloft to stand alongside the returning Christ.
Still not buying the post mil doctrine, but I don’t care that much. Just because it’s bad times doesn’t mean it’s true.
Christians are empowered for victory through Great Commission AND Post-Mil is just plain unbiblical. (simply read Revelation 20:3-6, and this becomes obvious).
Doug: I honestly think you should RENAME your position. Post-Mil is anti-biblical, but advancing Christ’s kingdom is fully biblical.
As long as you keep calling yourself Post-Mil, you are going to keep alienating people who can read.
Again, I love your emphasis and you are correct. But your NAME is WRONG!
You do realize he is actually post-millennial, right?
While i can u derstand your point of a government whose laws are shaped by strong Christian belief and thus promote the Christian faith and obedience I have to say you have misquoted Roman's 4:13. I'm aware you know that the Law mentioned is the ten commandments along with the various laws given throughout the pentetuech not law in a general sense so I do not know why you would use this passage to say that laws shaped by biblical principles in this or any country would apply to this passage since this is judaic law being referred to here. The law is now written on our hearts not on stone. I would also like to say I do not see the NT writers sharing this view. I think I read somewhere we are foreigners and our citizenship is not here but in heaven and yes on the great day of the Lord heaven and earth will essentially become one. I say these things with respect to you sir.
Love Doug, but post mil is not the answer. Follow your bibles people. God's told you what he's going to do, and how he's going to do it.
Great response. Unfortunately some of the brethren in your campsite don't believe the same campsite philosophies that you just laid out. Mr Wolf to name a name. I have no doubt discipleship is taking place.
Theonomy aka Judaism
Doug is not much of a theonomist. Don't be fooled.
I suppose it depends on how you define that. I understand that he holds to a general equity wing. Is that correct?
@brettmagnuson8318 I'd say in practical terms he doesn't even hold to that. He may claim the title, but he doesn't hold the beliefs behind the title. Blasphemy laws are so part and parcel to theonomy and Doug is against them, or he thinks they should only be for the state. How could expect the state to prosecute its own blasphemy? Also, the state is made up of individuals. Blasphemy laws must apply to all individuals, whether private citizens or public officials, and the state must enforce them. He also thinks that we can't institute any kind of Christianity in our government unless there are enough Christians for doing so. Practically speaking, the only way our government becomes vastly Christian is with a Christian population, but he'd oppose a civil magistrate governing in a distinctly Christian way in which he is applying Christian morality on the population whether they like it or not. In other words, if Kim Jong Un became a Christian overnight, Doug would be against him instituting Biblical Law because the population of North Korea was pagan still. But Kim Jong Un could turn the entire nation Christian by wielding the power he previously unlawfully obtained and exercised in now a lawful way to transform the nation overnight. Doug is an autopilot, revivalist postmill (Stephen Wolfe has said as much).
@@JR-rs5qs thanks for the explanation!
@@JR-rs5qs has actually Doug said he would oppose Kim Jong Un if this happened? Or is it assumed because of how he is dealing practically with our government system?
@brettmagnuson8318 no, he hasn't said that specifically. I'm using it for analogy's sake. Wolfe has even mentioned how Doug doesn't think a civil magistrate can govern in a distinctly Christian way unless the populace is majority Christian. The best advice I can give is to listen to Doug's 2016 book Empires of Dirt. It was his true Christian Nationalist work. Then listen to Mere Christendom. Pay close attention to what Doug is actually saying in Mere Christendom and don't get caught up in his wit, humor, complaints on the current order, etc. You'll find that he's massively backed away from his previous, more bold position and now is rather pietistic when it comes to civil magistrate. It's an extremely disappointing change.
Addressing us as ‘people’ is thoroughly vulgar, Wilson.
I have no idea what you are tlking about
Pound sand then
@@ZephaniahLno it sounds like he just needs to do some more reading!
@@levimahan2393or that Doug speaks in an overly complicated way, kinda like how Ben Shapiro talks fast to sound smart.
@@DM-dk7js if you have a hard time understanding his way of speaking, you can read his blog at your own pace, or his books. But it sounds like you are insinuating that Mr. Wilson is trying to sound smart when he isn't.
@@levimahan2393it’s not really an insult. I’m just saying I believe he talks in an overly intentionally complicated and metaphorical way as a device to come off substantive and intelligent.
8:21 this is a poor phrasing of the critique and you know it. The critique is that you have explicitly claimed Christ’s command is to disciple the nation state. This would have been incoherent to the 12, as both the idea of a nation state was still over a millenia away and there’s no way they could have baptized one of this in the Jordan if they had it anyway.
Also, your equivalency of nations/nation-states and eggs/omelettes is both false and useless. You might as well have said that Christ told us to disciple Egg-o waffles. I mean sure, I imagine an egg factors into it at some point….but making waffles our focus in order to get to those eggs is plainly missing the clear point. Dangerously so.
6:30 frankly it doesn’t matter Doug. It’s a earthly power falsely wielding a piss-poor interpretation of the Scriptures as a hammer to crush those of us who dissent about the way he is using that power.
Frankly, I’d rather be crushed by hammer that is plainly evil, than one wielded by one of your grandson’s disciples. Things are just easier to understand when the unrighteousness is being carried out by a tyrant who clearly hates the Lord I love.
You are setting the footings for a future anti-Christ. Saying, ‘well would that anti-Christ be obey God or not?’ is just avoiding honestly answering the question.
So, you are admitting that you prefer to serve Satan. You have put your trust in Satan, and you trust godless demonic secularists more than Christians.
I am guessing you attended government schools and your master’s college. Of course, there is little difference between government schools and most modern ‘Christian’ schools, so I could be wrong.
Anti Christ's have come and gone. Go back to the text. It says they deny the Father and the son. John said it was the "last hour" to his original first century audience. 1 John 2:18
Are you seriously saying you prefer a state that enforces evil to one that enforces good?
@@robertlewis6915 Yes, that's exactly what he meant.
@@robertlewis6915it's not about preference but the fact that an evil state(s) will prevail untill Christ's return. And it would be easier, better if the evil state was not hiding behind religion.