Please "Like" and also " Share" to keep the conversation going. Coming up next Tuesday is 🚨"LIVE Shop Talk Tuesday.🎬 "at 10am Mountain Standard Time. We will dive deeper into this. More insights "As The Wheel Turns, So Do The Days Of Our Rides" playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLdfUXv0-z1u42bZpCLWmT2VtNW-7AIf2A.html Tools and Products Featured (Affiliate): 🛠 Shop Tools to Parts That I Use in the "Garage Shop": www.amazon.com/shop/iknowaguybicycles 🚿 15% Off Lithium Products that I used in this video: lithiumautocare.com/?ref=IKnowAGuyBicycles 👕 "The Guy's" T-Shirts: i-know-a-guy-bicycles.myspreadshop.com/
About a dozen years ago I attended a dealer seminar provided by one of the big bike brands. They explained that they were working towards the auto-manufacturer model of trading, with exclusive stores and bikes with proprietary parts that could only be supplied by the brand. They told us that bikes would become far more complex, so that consumers could not work on them at home and would be reliant on the dealer for even basic service tasks. They told us that this complexity would increase price - which the consumer would be happy to carry in return for the additional feature - so that the dealer would score more margin. They told us that a three-year obsolescence cycle would be employed, so that the enthusiast consumer would retain a primary bike for only three years before it went out of fashion, was technically outmoded, or failed mechanically to the point of not being economically viable to repair. I remember thinking at the time that this brand was probably signing its own death warrant - but the entire industry has followed this model! So, lets just deal with one aspect of that. The concept store model doesn't work for the franchisee dealer. When the brand has a very popular model it runs out by May or earlier, and the dealer cannot fill the gap with other brands for the prime summer selling period. The brand expects the franchisee to invest heavily in stock ahead of the sales season, and then advertises discounted retail prices, over the dealer's head, if a model isn't as popular as expected and the brand is left with inventory that they need to clear. The franchisee recieeves no retrospective discount on existing stock, and is told to compnsate by buying more stock of the remaindered model at the newly discounted price - but it's an unpopular model late in the selling season! Today, brands are selling direct to consumer, over the dealer's head, but expect dealers to provide pre-sale and aftersales service without financial compensation. The consumer doesn't understand how business works, and is pissed that the dealer won't provide free services on product where no magin has been made. Additionally, part of the concept store deal is that the brand has oversight of the franchisee's accounts, in return for the supposed benefits of discounted POS items and extended credit for the franchisee - but only if targets are met. There are penalties for not meeting targets, but if targets are met then the brands expectations are raised, so that targets are increased and remain difficult to achieve, so that the brand's defined performance rewards never materialise. If a dealer tries to resist the offer of becoming a concept store, they are threatened with the brand withdrawing supply and going with another local dealer instead - or reducing margins if there's no rival dealer to use as a threat. Brands can be bullies, and life for a concept store can be far more difficult than for a dealer with a range of brands and freedom of choice. In my region, several prominent concept stores failed for these reasons. Generally, the entire trade and industry is failing due to becoming too corporate and too greedy. Bicycles are not cars, and users do not consume them in the same way. In a twist of fate, the auto-industry sales model, on which this has all been based, is also now failing. The landscape has changed, and a massive reset, with financial pain for many, is inevitable.
David Thanks for taking the time to post this. It explains exactly the arrogance of certain ‘manufacturers’ in seeking to force unwanted complexity and proprietory parts on customers for no benefit or more accurately to the direct detriment of customers. Allied with the withdrawal of proven effective solutions to force customers’ hands to satisfy their gross commercial greed. No surprise that people walk away and they are left staring into the abyss. Shaft your clientele and your business associates that’s exactly where they deserve to be IMO, crying over a worthless share value
@@kevinfrost1579 And many consumers have been fully complicit. It's like Brexit or Trump 2.0. Many people can easily be persuaded to act directly against their own interests, with unquestioning faith in the marketing BS, until it's way too late and the damage is done. Even then, many will never admit regret, because most do not want to demonstrate gullibility or foolishness. Those who readily bought into this nonsense, and shamed riding buddies (I've heard it happen) for not having hydraulic discs/tubeless/Di2/Rapha/a power meter/wide tyres/a Garmin/carbon frame/Japanese-schoolgirl socks/phone connectivity/internal lines/one-piece cockpit/a skinsuit/expensive bikefit/lights with cameras in/etc. bear much of the responsibility. They willingly collaborated with commercial suppliers who see the end user simply as a unit of potential revenue extraction, and now everyone in the business and hobby will suffer. The industry simply strives to meet demand, and achieve market share targets, in order to maximise return on investment. That's how business works. The majority of pro-level road bikes are bought by middle-aged potterers who will never race. It's total madness.
Im a road biker. in my experience when they brought in the disc brakes with the through axles and pushed the prices way up, that was the end for me. I was thrilled with my alumuinum frame carbon fiber fork and rim brakes. I can put on good shimano or aftermarket pads and stop very well . The bike industry decided everyone needed a corvette priced bike. we didnt. they created their own demise. then, in effort to cut costs they pushed you into an 8 speed setup low end shimano groupset on some of the entry level road bikes. give me a break guys. I collected 15 great early 2000's road bikes which i ride with great pleasure. and my brakes dont squeal like so many disc brake set ups when i stop. Too late now, bike industry not interested in anything but $$$$$$$$$$$ road bikes. it saddens me, but what can i do. industry priced me out
Amen. Never attracted to MTB, bought gravel bikes and tried that, realized I didn’t enjoy spending so much time looking down. E-bikes seem a totally different activity, essentially an electric moped. Like pickleball is to tennis. I realized why road cycling is for me: covering longer distances, seeing varied scenery go by, and savoring the flow of rolling along a (fairly) smooth surface, under my own steam. In modern parlance, “meBikes” or (nod to Apple) “iBikes”. A bar-end mirror plus tail radar help manage today’s increased traffic, bloated vehicles, and distracted drivers, crammed into the same 12-foot lanes. Prefer being in traffic rather than jammed to the right on the shoulder or in a bike lane where too often motorists don’t register a bicycle and turn across its trajectory - happened to me too many times. Ditto on the disc brakes. So many long steep descents on rim brakes, never fallen, no exploding or overheated tires. Worried only once, at the top of a twisty switchbacked gravel strewn descent from a pass in the Sierra Nevada with full camping gear on my road bike - and that went OK. And today’s rim brakes (think Dura-Ace 9200) are light years better than the Weinmanns I used years ago. When the disc brake crusade started, I swallowed the rhetoric and bought a Trek with hydraulic discs. Riding it alternately with a similar Trek with rim brakes I couldn’t tell any difference - on alloy rims in the dry (not being paid to ride in the wet I avoid doing so). Needed to replace the frame on a carbon rim brake bike I was using, replacement rim brake carbon frames hard to find, got a custom double butted Ti rim brake frame made for similar cost, transferred components, total weight 1 lb more. Happy. Silver lining of the disc brake crusade is that rim brake components were on sale really cheap! So I upgraded to Dura-Ace and bought spares too!
I was able to get a new steel Gunnar built up a few years ago, before they closed shop; at least they were able to close on their terms. I decided to get disc brakes to make my bike as future-proof as reasonably possible, although for me as far as any practical functionality I'm indifferent between disc or rim brakes. I got into road cycling toward the end of the era when you could build a bike up entirely as you want, before everything started shifting to almost entirely off-the-shelf bikes. I still have that mentality of getting everything on the bike exactly as I want it. I kinda feel like I'm part of a dying breed.
@@jack002tuber 100%. I just don’t get it. I was tempted to do a DI2 conversion for a hot minute on my Madone but after giving it some thought and doing some research my Ultegra cable shifters work so well what the hell is the point!?!
I actually really like the idea of the bike market trending towards the smaller independent bike shops instead of the big stores. Home based shops? Hey, even better!
This is why I have been buying 1) bike frames with v-brake studs before they disappear completely and 2) all the quality 8-speed components I can find. I hate disk brakes and an 8-speed bike delivers all the gear ranges I need for enjoyable cycling. I love biking and can work on my bikes with any problem that arises. I refuse to be a prisoner of the marketing and latest/greatest schemes. I just want to ride my bike and have fun and a well maintained 8 speed bike delivers all of that. I've got enough parts now to last me the rest of my cycling life - and all for way less than a single overpriced high end overhyped big name "hot" bike. They brought this upon themselves.
Our bike shop never left the community oriented neighborhood bike shop model. We may have lost out on some high end sales but we seldom have capital tie up on slow moving niche categories. Our E bike conversion product, Bafang BB S02 mid drives, allows us to sell applicable bikes off the floor or a customers existing bike to convert with far less after purchase servicing. We are seeing less volume but we are having higher quality and profit. Transportation and commuting is by far our biggest market.
The bicycle industry has fallen into the same trap that doomed the automotive industry during its heyday ,prioritizing planned obsolescence and profit over accessibility and durability. What once were simple, repairable machines are now proprietary, overcomplicated systems that alienate riders. Much like Detroit’s gas guzzlers of the past, the industry is flooding the market with high margin carbon bikes and trendy gravel models while ignoring the growing need for durable, affordable commuters. The pandemic only amplified these failures. Instead of rising to meet unprecedented demand, manufacturers delivered inflated prices, dwindling quality, and incompatible parts all while claiming to “redefine cycling.” Independent shops suffered while corporate brands cashed in, leaving a glut of overpriced bikes no one asked for while everyday riders scrounged for secondhand alternatives. Bikes were once symbols of simplicity and ingenuity, but today’s industry feels more like a cynical cash grab. Cycling deserves better, and if the next generation of riders demands it, maybe it can be that symbol of freedom again.
I’m 72 years old and have been riding bikes for about 67 years. I bought my last new bike in 1996, I think - one of the last “made in Italy” Bianchi road bikes. I’ve upgraded components a few times on that, but with everything I put into it, it still probably has less than $2K in it including the original purchase price (which was about $1k). And I love it. I’ve also bought a bunch of other bikes over the last 15-20 years. Always second-hand, always for less than $100, and customized them myself to serve specific purposes. (E.g. a grocery shopping bike, a “stealth” bike that rides really well but that looks awful, so I can leave it locked up with a cable lock at the train station and always find it when I get back, etc. ) The beautiful thing about these older bikes is that they’re SIMPLE - simple to ride, simple to work on, require a minimum set of tools and just some basic skills using them. And, with just a little care, they can last many decades. What’s killing the bike industry is that they’ve lost touch with the average rider, and have focused on the ultra-high willingness to pay 0.001% of riders. That’s by definition a VERY low-volume market. If I were 30 years younger, I’d say I might own a bike with a bezillion gears, electronic shifting, hydraulic disk brakes and the rest … in another 30 years when they’d be on the second-hand market for the equivalent of $100. But I won’t be alive, and I have a feeling that those bikes won’t last that long anyway.
We went to our small bikeshop to buy a new comfortable bike for my wife...All they had was bent over uncomfortable bikes for racers and mountain bikes...only one hybrid type...The sales man was a snotty kid who kept trying to push other bikes on us.....We left and went to Sheels and bought her a Townie...she loves it...She actually wants to ride with me now...
It shouldn’t be this hard to find a good bike shop. But who do you blame? I’d say it’s whoever owns the shop. You have to train your help, teach them how to listen. Remind them that you never truly know who you’re talking to. Looks can be deceiving! I’m always looking for the holy grail of bikes but, I tend to buy one down from the top of the line. With that being said, with a little coaxing you could probably get me to buy the top of the line one.
I still don't understand how the big bike companies, that have been doing business for many years and have seen smaller trends in the industry, could have thought that the spike of enthusiasm in cycling during the pandemic could have been anything but a very temporary thing. It seems as though they ramped up production and prices during this period thinking it was going to last several years. It makes no sense to me that they thought that that a viral pandemic was going to have a lasting effect on the bike industry.
I'm sure they believed too much that it would continue, but they could have thought that some of the people who started cycling because of quiet roads would continue to purchase better bikes in the future
I've worked in the industry since 1989 and I knew back in 2020 that they would end up overeacting and over producing! Same thing happened in the early 70's
The bicycle industry doesn't understand Merchandising or pretty much any creative approach to improve or grow. It's the evil twin to the auto industry. Independent and used is the way to go for me. This has been my ethos since I was a kid and I'm 55.
This has been a good summary of the bike industry. I really hope our local bike shops survive and thrive. I also hope they branch out and learn to service e-bikes as well as direct to consumer e-bikes too. There's a huge market for service and maintenance for e-bikes.
Eight bikes in my collection...only one is from the 2000s...my favorite bikes are the early mountain bikes from the mid eighties and some from the nineties...I can't imagine that the new bike market can continue with so many great bikes available on the used market....schwinn high sierra, ross mt whitney, gt zaskar, specialized stumpjumper, trek 520 touring, '58 schwinn klunker, bridgestone xo1, schwinn paramount 70pdg
my local bike shop always seems like a private club of snotty kids. i only go there as a last resort for service. i always leave feeling like crap. i find myself doing more and more of my own work.
@@kursk88-k1t Is that the only shop around you? I'm lucky that I have at least 3 within 15 minutes that are great. Even the higher end store that sells $9k+ TT and road bikes didn't blink an eye when I brought an old $300 amazon garbage bike in and said they were just happy I was on a bike at all. Any other shops around you that might not be so full of themselves?
You are WRONG. People aren't buying lots of bikes from Walmart, Target and sporting good chains. They are buying E bikes from websites. You can get a decent E bike for less than 2 grand delivered right to your front door within a week. Look around, there are more and more of them on the streets every day and people genuinely like them. That's the future of biking right there.
Dicks sporting goods is selling a lot of bikes. more than they did in the past. not everyone wants or can afford an E bike. now E bikes are the new devil to the political class and must be regulated , licensed, and insured in order to ride one. thats where that is going.
As a consumer, I think you have excellent takes. There are a ton of people who would consider riding a bike around town, whether for daily errands or to commute a couple of times a week. They don't want a bike meant for sport, they want something comfy bought from a friendly shop where they don't feel intimidated to enter. Upselling them an e-bike is probably not all that hard, especially when it is packaged nicely with fenders and a basket rather than looking like a cyber truck. If that local shop offers them friendly service they will be happy to bring their bikes for maintenance and accessories like racks, bags, child seats, rain ponchos, non-sporty clothing, etc. That is a growing market and friendly service is key. They don't want a weekly group ride, they want to replace their second car with something fun and cheaper than the car they can no longer afford.
It's all the gen z punks who are all butthurt they don't make enough money and instead of taking their issues up with the owner of the shop or the government (the ones who can fix their problem) they take it out on the customers and "quietly quit" or whatever the hell it's called
I'm an old guy. When I was a young rider in the 80s, I could afford a sweet Italian road bike and a sweet Ritchey mtb. I learned to work on my bikes when we routinely repacked bearings by hand. Now, not only cant a young rider afford even one sweet bike, they cant maintin it inexpensively. The industry is gross now. I still ride, and have gotten into sweet diy ebikes. The last thing Id do is buy any of the industry offered e bikes for crazy money. My most recent build was using a modern steel hard tail frame, hydraulic brakes, mechanical shifters and a nice E conversion kit that I can tear down and service myself. Package rounded out with an over built Clydesdale class carbon wheelset purchased off shore for half the price industry in North America demands. Simple bikes, people can work on are awesome. The industry sucks. I have ebikes that out perform anything I can legally buy and can replace any component of the system myself. I do have a workstand and relevant tools. I dont see how the industry can expect to grow turning bikes into something an average person has to make a huge financial commitment to have AND requires dealer support/technicians if anything goes wrong. Bikes are awesome. They always will be. Much of the crap industry markets on the altar of high end consumerism represents everything that is wrong with the system we are all supposed to buy into and become wage slaves too. I keep my rides easy to maintain and take full advantage of being able to order inexpensive parts to my door. Im certainly not going to line the pockets of a big corporation or have any bike Id have to pay a bike mechanic to work on. Bike mechanics is pretty straightforward stuff and anyone can learn it. Even ebike motors are pretty straightforward. I can do a complete teardown and rebuild of a Bafang mid drive, not that that is too necessary as theyll run thousands of miles. But, parts are cheap, readily available and you arent beholden to industry and high priced help to keep your ride healthy. Simple, robust easy to work on rides are gold.
Good tool options for cheap, access to repair information, and cheap used and new bikes have never been easier to get. The only bikes you need dealer support for are ebikes.
I'm 65 I've been riding bikes for 50 years these days I ride a 21 speed mountain bike that I converted to a 250 wat hub motor 36volt battery (street legal in Australia) 100 km range it's speed limited to 41kmh but if I don't run the motor, just pedalling i can do the same speed lol the conversion kit cost $1200 Australian the bike was $600 new it had disc brakes but they used cable to operate so I upgraded them to hydraulic so I could stop better i do all my own maintenance i just get parts from my local bike shop
I haven't bought a new bicycle since 1992. I have about 15 bikes, for commuting, sport riding and touring. There are literally millions of older bikes out there: high quality, in great condition, that work just fine, and that be bought for less than the price of a department store POS. They have the added benefit of being simple enough that anyone can do basic maintenance on them.
My prediction for 2024 that half of the cycling industry would go bankrupt. In Idaho Falls we lost half our local bike shops. My predictions for 2025 are (1) lower bike prices overall (30% off 2024) for used and new bikes, but (2) only 30% bankruptcy rate in cycling industry vs 50% for 2024, and a (3) cycling customer focus on utilitarian bikes over sport bikes.
@IKnowAGuyBicycles it isn't a happy prediction but if I am wrong then I will say 2025 was AMAZING and appreciate being happily wrong. May you be the most successful local bike shop owner in 2025!
@@IdahoFatTireBikeFun It's going to be where you leverage the success. It may not be service or sales. It could be a community, local ride events, and just being human and sharing that on socials. The money pots are definitely where I wasn't looking, and I am now starting to see where those opportunities lie. But we will see. Thanks for sharing.
@IKnowAGuyBicycles may I suggest that the financially and emotionally rewarding local bike shop owner's best 2025 option is the mobile bike repair van. There is a fellow here in the Silicon Valley (I am visiting my parents) that is booked 40+ hours per week repairing cyclists' bikes from his bike repair van. No business rent or overhead. No employees. And a clientele who loves seeing him.
After being in the bike life/ industry since 1987, I am happy I no longer have anything to do with bikes. I still ride once in a while, but it is always night rides, when I won’t run into today’s current crop of super hero’s…. Just do not want to have anything to do with the bikes or the current culture. I miss MTB from the late 80’s and early 90’s. Better bikes. Better culture. Better people. Remember. You brought this on yourselves……
Switched most of my bikes to 8sp friction rear. Forgiving and easy to tune. You can commit part sins and stuff still works. (brake housing on shifter cables) If cues becomes a "thing" I might buy an Uno shifter and try out this newfangled 11sp one by revolution. For now, 3x8 on my HILLY commute just works.
Where I live, a triple is optimal. Recently bought an old chromoly bike with STX-RC 3x7. I enjoy it as much as my titanium Seven. I've sorta started hoarding mechanical and/or triple drivetrain parts. They just work well and for nearly an eternity when taken care of.
Former high school / college mechanic here. I don’t want to put repair shops and guys like you out of business , but why can’t we make a bike that rides for 5000 miles without any service? Seriously. Most people never clock that kind of mileage over the lifespan of a bike anyway. Engineered for durability and near zero maintenance. May be slightly heavier, slightly more expensive but they could be ridden and traded without concern of expensive repairs or obsolescence.
From what I see, there are only 2 demographics left. People who have the time and resources to leave town with a bike or live in the pricier neighborhoods, and the people who have no choice. The latter buys cheap used bikes or steals them. The rest of us who want to ride don't have the time to leave the suburban sprawl for the day. So, we just opted out. If the industry wants to stay relevant, they need to pool their resources and lobby like mad for better bike friendly infrastructure. A 4ft wide strip on the side of traffic doing 50mph is not an option.
Absolutely, and the cost of one mile of bike path is insanely expensive. We need lower costs and more urban development of recreational paths for fun and, most importantly, commuting (Safely). I live in one of those better, not perfect communities, and it is so fantastic. I can ride all day without being on the same path twice for multiple days. It can be done.
All the big brands shareholders isnt laughing, but the name of the game😊 Hidious sums for bikes is not getting back their investment. A pro dont pay to ride, they get payed. And the rest (99.987%) of cyclists do pay! Its like paying 1900$ for a cup of coffe.... Those that just do club races and have to take a loan at the bank to have that 10-15000$ needs counselling if you ask me. A good amateur could achieve with 1/5th.
2000’s road bikes are amazing value and sometimes have top end 10 speed stuff on them, they are my favourite. You can get an immaculate litespeed titanium ( tdf standard) bike for about a thousand pounds. Why the hell would I buy a current bike with pointless electic gears?
Incredible that the entire cycling industry got it wrong during the pandemic. I picked up a bike before the shortage and price increases in early 2020 and then got back into the market last year. Was there any one brand that got it right and pumped the brakes for the orders? Or was it really groupthink and no one took a step back to consider the long-term effects?
Happy 2025 to you sir I'm a year round courier in Toronto Canada I found your video very enlightening As a very interested observer of the bike industry I think one of the biggest mistakes i see is that a lot of shops have sold high end racing equipment to new riders who have not got the miles into the sport to appreciate it; and really don't need it I average 200kms per week for work on a 97 Cannondale F700 mtb; for the majority of my riding I don't need or want Duraace DI2 or SRAM Yet everyday I see someone ride by me with a UCI world tour quality bike and Nike Stan Lanes with a dollar store lock; struggling to stay up right when the road tips up .5% Selling people the correct bike rather than the most expensive thing in the shop might help with repeat business IMHO
I love my LBS! Over the last 15 years or so my wife and I have bought 6 bikes from them and I continue to buy almost everything part/accessory-wise from them. My dealer comes really close to online pricing (usually about a 10% delta) and I'm happy to give them the business for that margin as they're always wiling to help, get us in really quickly when we have an issue and seem to be really good people. In fact, over the winters here in VT I'll make a list of anything that I "need" for the upcoming season, provide it to the shop and they'll order what I want over the winter and then when I bring my bike in for a service I'll pick those items up. It's really interesting to hear your thoughts on the bike industry and I hope you keep up the great work and content!
road bike era. big spike in interest when compact cranksets came out. perfect for the recreational rider. then on to disc brakes and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. that ended the party.
What i expect, and we haven't seen yet, it the total failure of one or more major brands. Wal*Mart/Target are already moving away from selling bike to you come, we order and assemble. GT has already basically disappeared, but they concentrated in one niche market. The Government doesn't have the resources to bail out a bike brand and may actually like to reduction in brands.
Over time, only the frames change for fashion. Components will remain the same because wheels will still be round and chains will still move those wheels.
Our friend is making $$$ in his shop because he sells service... he gets dealer discounts on all his bikes if the dealer drops prices,,, they get their bikes dirt cheap because they buy bulk... if you don't cover all out-door actives and sports it will be hard too stay in the game... they sell everything and do quite well... 😂
Only us old people are buying bikes and we are buying ebikes now. Kids these days are at home on their phone. Overall, the continued downturn in pedal bikes will continue over the next few years. As conponents become electronic and brand like oneup develop components that are easily serviable, will bike service shops really be that needed in the future?
eBikes are still pushing the market, but they will be flooded with non-name brands and cool in the next year or two. However, there is a huge service opportunity in working on them.
I'm ASSUMING YOU HAVE ABANDONED ALL CURRENT TECHNOLOGY? WHY IS IT THAT SO MANY PEOPLE DECIDE A PARTICULAR YEAR WAS THE BEST FOR TECHNOLOGY AND EVERYTHING PRODUCED SINCE THEN IS NO GOOD? All the steel cult cyclist in my area carry super expensive smart phones, not cell phones from 1995. To each his own!
Local bike shops are withering on the vine in some countries, especially europe. I can see prices still rising into 2025 but a burgeoning second hand market undercutting the ridiculous retail prices of brand new. The LBS can tap into this market if they're able to offer good pricing and warranty
The local bike shop will only survive by servicing products- you can't buy that on the internet, They have no margins selling bicycles and accessories because they are competing with internet sales that pay staff minimum wage, and after the purchase offer nothing!
The bike industry did this to themselves... They got WAY too greedy and now it's coming back to hurt them. Who wants to spend 3-4k plus on a metiocre bike, ESPECIALLY in this economy? A nice, reliable entry-level bike by a big brand name like Trek should run ~$500 give or take. Amateur bikes should be ~1-2k and an expert bike should be about ~3-4k. I can see the justification if state-of-the-art bikes for the pros would be 10k and up but most people can't afford that. The bike shops need to clean up their act too. I'm tired of the horrible service. Luckily I have a steel frame road bike with rim brakes and external cables so it's super easy and CHEAP to service. I would never in a million years let some gen z PUNK at a LBS wrench on my bike. I can order and install my own parts for my bike thank you very much.
Maybe if the entire model were changed to focusing less on coming out with new models each year and instead investing its energy into assisting customer service. Do we actually need a new Specialized or Litespeed bike year after year? Maybe not. Perhaps the industry could go to having a new model every two or three years. The pandemic led to an overabundance of bikes, and too many ebike riders are using them as mopeds. In 2025, now would be a great time to think about what it is the public really needs instead of pushing out new models year after year.
Bicycles, RVs, snowmobiles and other leisure expenditures will be impacted the most during economic downturns. The pendulum will eventually swing back.
As someone with 30 years of experience as a bicycle commuter and mechanic, dismissing bikes as merely “a leisure expenditure” is both inaccurate and reductive. This oversimplification fails to acknowledge the practical, environmental, and economic roles bicycles play in daily life. Moreover equating bicycles to RVs is a deeply flawed analogy that overlooks the fundamental differences in purpose, accessibility, and impact. Such comparisons not only misrepresent the value of cycling but also trivialize its significance as a legitimate mode of transportation.
Most innovations in cycling came from the ground up. Merchandising and big corporations destroyed that. Modern equipment is expensive rubbish, which is not durable or value for money. Ordinary folk need practical bicycles with mudguards, capable as use for transport and recreation. The big cycle corporations think racing bikes or mountain bikes, both types developed for competition. Not practical for a leisurely cycle to the shops and to load up with groceries. The designed in redundancy in these modern machines means that their components are worn out of two years of regular use, and very expensive to replace. I have seen an elderly man locally out riding his 1950s Claud Butler bike fitted with a Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub gear. It was parked outside the Lidl store a few weeks ago snd I saw him pedalling into town to meet up with friends. He bought the bike secondhand and it does everything he requires at minimal cost to him, unlike modern bikes.
In our shop the Canyon customers want us to drop everything we are doing to answer their questions about their bike's technology, yet they get upset when we try to charge them for our expertise. Buying onlione to get it cheaper will come back to bite them!
I retired from the wholesale side right as Covid was ramping up, I remember flying back from the Denver show in March and retired in April. Things really got really crazy, guess I was kind of lucky. Good luck!
I had a stint at a Trek owned store . Service by cyclists , and some by general experience retail staff who do product training before starting work . Privately owned dealers have more experirience in most cases .
Why? The fit of a cassette to the freehub body isn't an interference fit, it isn't even a clearance fit. There is not even a chance of gavanic corrosion happening the cassette and body because the contact points minimal and aren't tight.
@@lastfm4477@lastfm4477 It's not just rust you have to worry about (lower-end parts); it's dirt and other contaminants. It provides a waterproof barrier and also makes removal a little easier.
How to get people on bikes, that's the question. People have money, maybe not a budget for the big brands, but they'll part with their money if they feel motivated to go out and ride, a used bike, e bike, or whatever, but brands need to figure out a way to get more normal people riding, anything.
Young people have been convinced by their parents that cycling is unsafe. Now, they would rather buy a throwaway electric bike or skooter. Why do you think 40% of the population is obese!
I feel like smaller/agile shops and manufacturers can ride this out. Bloated shops/manufacturers with too much debt and overhead will have to fall apart and restructure, be acquired, or disappear. A small "local-ish" manufacturer (Esker, formerly known as Advocate) left our area and consolidated back to their MN location after cost of rents and real estate doubled or more a couple years ago. Far as I can tell they're doing fine.
ALL the local bike shops in my area sell more than just bikes. Only 1 which is one of the oldest still survives selling just bikes. Some shops sell ski equipment, tennis gear, running shoes, fitness equipment to survive. Unfortunately I find the independent bike shops have a very elitists mentality. They try desperately to have a community connection. However with today's social networking and the internet as a knowledge base, people of bike riding age don't care about local community bike shops. They want to get a good bike for nothing. I see it all day at the bike co-op I work at. When the bike breaks they are shocked by a local bike shop repair estimate. They donate the bike and go buy another cheap POS bike from the internet or Walmart or Dicks. I don't see local bike shops surviving on bike sales alone. Better get ready to file for bankruptcy.
Please don't forget Bicycle co Ops. We started advertising and Sold many bicycles. People want inexpensive bicycles. That's all some people can afford. We have a room of used bike parts . I'm willing to put Ten hours fixing my bike but not willing to put a eighty are a hundred dollars into a bike. Our co-op we can buy a bike at $80 and put $ 500 in parts on it that type of deal is hard to beat .
The Chinese are coming. They make all the components, they make the bikes, but the brands control the sales market. The Chinese are now building their own brands, selling direct, using influencer reviews on UA-cam to build awareness. I was looking at Trek and Cube e-bikes but couldnt really justify their prices - so I didnt buy. On reflection, my mind said “I want a Ferrari, but I need a Ford” so I changed my aspirations. I ended up buying a Mokwheel Mesa Light from a reviewer who makes his money from selling the bikes that the companies send him to review. I paid 20% of the price of a Trek or Cube and I am SO pleased with the bikes design and quality.
I spoke to my local bike shop and here are his thoughts. People who buy expensive bikes don't take into account the price of new components like chains, cassettes. The internet is destroying bike shops, people come into the shop and get advice, leave and buy it on the internet. Ebikes are a big market but if it goes wrong then staff don't have the electronic knowledge to fix them straight away, it's a send back to manufacturer or wait for a part to arrive. Please who buy it bikes don't think about replacement battery and parts costs. .
most professional shops send their mechanics to train in Shimano and Bosch electric bike systems. The bikes that can't be serviced are generally bought online/.
Mail orders eroded the market starting in the 80s-90s, so that isn't new. But the delivery process has improved, so I can get bike stuff in a day or even the same day. The shop has adapted to that in the last 10-15 years. In my case, the internet is what makes my business possible. eBike is here to stay, but the market will soften like all other cycling niches, and you will find big shops that will do everything. You will find a lot of small shops with single niches (Road, MTB, eBike, Tri, etc.) that will be more prevalent going forward.
The trends are goings towards Bike Shops will be 90% repairs and service. Especially when large web retailers are selling parts cheaper than wholesalers QBP and BTI.
That is what it has shifted to in my market and others. Jenson USA and 365 Cycles are just a few that leverage online sales to the point I don't need to have dealer agreements with any of them to do what I do. It's pretty lovely NOT to have reps to deal with. Thanks for sharing!
The thing is every body is crying for old brands (currently GT) are going bankrupt, atlest the sentimetal part of the bike internet. However the mass of consumers doesn't give a shit about them. The era has changed. You don't have to buy an overpriced Trek or Specialized while you can get a Canyon. There are no huge gaps and modern geometry is know-how, not a price package. But, If you have money you can get better and more exotic bikes than the "old high end big brands". And root problem is since the the bike industry is outsourced to Asia atlest 4 decades, every one is have their product made there. So mostly you are paying for the brand (eg marketing), not the actual product. And yes, 4 decade of bike know-how is there, no one can compete with them by price/mass production quality. (If they are willing to pay for better at the original manufacturer.) Does anybody know where the hell is Cannondale? Obsolite brand with heritage. Mongoose? Bigbox store shit. Big chain shit should be illegal.
I live in Azerbaijan and there are very few middle to high end bikes. I bought a cheap Azerbaijan bike which have surprisingly good frames and upgraded some of the components. total spend was sub$1000.00 and it rides as well as much more expensive bikes I have at home in the UK.
Only last year did I buy a good quality second-hand carbon bike with Etap shifters. I bought as I wanted to know how much of a difference there was between something fairly current against by 40 plus year old quality race bikes. I am suspicious of the current business models and built in obsolescence, hence, I will never part with my old bikes as I can still race and train on those and well cared for, they will outlive me. Nothing wrong with the KISS principle. As for the difference between old and new: the biggest advantage (of many small advantages over many years development) is the shifter on the brake lever assemblies, which are very, very convenient when racing.
Customer service is gone and the focus of bike shops is ONLY the "25" year old cyclist. Cost too high comprehensive knowledge of training and product is limited (-)
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles I totally agree! Maybe they can buy that bike used and completely gut the group set and go to some local bike nonprofit and pick up an exellent older 9 speed shimano xt groupset.
I also blame a lot of the price issues on niche bike brands. All these pop up brands are charging big bike prices causing the big brands to say fine we will keep our prices high as well. I’d like to see the books of companies like your home state has of like Mosaic… Cost more than a Madone or Tarmac…
I remember watching a video from back when covid hit. It showed a big wig from specialized telling all the companies they farmed their production out to that they needed to increase capacity. Specialized doesnt build their own bikes. THEY needed to build more plant and equipment, not specialized. They needed to take the risk, spend the money, not specialized. I thought at the time, wow, how he plays these people for patsies. Shameful the manipulation that was attempted.
There are a lot of smart asses out there in the bike industry trying to push $10,000 bikes😮 they are cocky and arrogant I will never buy from people like that and most of your bike shop guys are that way
Venture capital firms ruined much of the cycling vibe/community. Really hoping Rocky Mountain gets bought back by cyclists much like Kona did earlier this year. Anyone who asks me what kind of bike to get for cruising around, I recommend finding an 80s bike on a marketplace. The price you pay will be the same as a new heavy big box store bike.
I actually own 2 treks and 2 old Fujii and I actually love them. Have over 30k miles on the oldest. No real reason to buy a new one. The components and frame quality is really good, and I'm not going to win any races...
After repeated negative experiences with shop owners and trash wages for too long I bailed on a career as a mechanic early 2022. So glad that I did, I went back to university & started a new career with way higher earning potential with not even a 3rd the stress. Too bad you can't build a future as a tech with decades of industry experience. I watched what was an somewhat accessible sport devolve into a fantasy play piece that only doctors & lawyers can afford. This correction is way overdue, the bike industry earned it's failure. Still it's a shame to see some major legacy brands capsizing. Also good luck everyone if the independent LBS goes under, you'll be totally fucked when it comes to repairs/maintenance. Can't learn everything on UA-cam, I'm taking my 25yrs experience and tools & peacing out.
Definitely right! At the shop we just love it when someone comes in and wastes an hour of our time to explain how to fix their Canyon, or other brand they bought online to "save money"
@@michaelmartin3400 Ah yes, the 'ol "tap 'em for knowledge then spend dollars online" routine. The condescending novella fan-fiction about the functional issues. It can be challenging to keep a smile on. However, I think that repair based service will be the only reliable income stream for any worthwhile LBS.
These are valid points. I did the same in 2005 and worked at the shop for side money for nine years. What I do wouldn't even pay the bills; for most people, it would be more of a retirement gig, with a significant other bringing in the bacon. Thanks for sharing.
So, in a nut shell corporate greed. Hence why I am not shedding one tear for the ones failing and the ones already closed. The industry needs to focus on entry to mid level mtb trail specific bikes. Leaving the highend as bispoke order trims. Rather than offering two to 3 high-end kit trim levels. You offer a frame and have 5 to 10 component lines for each aspect of the bike, such as drive train, suspension, bearings, cockpit, and so forth. The rider builds their bike through the factory, putting money where they want it and need and save on the rest. You wait a few weeks and get your bike. Also, the direct order model will kill the sport long term as it only benefits current participants. It's a hidrents to new entrants as they have no clue how to maintain a bike. A mom and pop bike shop network is greatly needed to act like a liason between the consumer and manufacturers. The pricing needs to go down and margins up so the shop can take care of his customers right, building strong, long-lasting relationships, and repeat business. While making a comfortable, non greedy profit environment, opposite like these trek and specialized specific stores push sales to make the most profit possible. Also, more shops need to buy and sell used parts and bikes. Just because a bike is 5 plus years old and in great cosmetic and mechanical condition it should be treated like a used car. Still hold high value as it will be used for parts or as a great bike for someone new on a budget or veteran rider that wants quality but not the outrages price tag. I currently purchased a new Kona through my local shop on an amazing trade-in and cash deal. The owner wanted my bike for 2 years now. I got a fair trade in value where I avoid the hagling of Facebook market place or other sites. He makes money flipping it or the parts. Although the kona is a more basic model. By the time I spent in full upgrades to equal out the door sticker price of 3000 Canadian on the bike, I got dirt cheap. I will have a 5500 to 6500 Canadian aluminum FS for 3 grand. Buying parts on sale online or used through shops. His model of getting kids and adults on to a bike by any means new or used and budget necessary while taking care of them and there needs, and future bike needs have made him very successful. While the other more established and longer in business stores are beginning to fail in the area. As they only see the sale, not the person in front of them.
Used bikes can be a great way to get into the sport! You can get one and have it tuned up for under 1k. Win, Win, Or check out this video I made about Mendham.ua-cam.com/video/RbjoiIYo9RI/v-deo.html
The emotorcycle (I refuse to call them bicycles) industry is part of the reason. They won. They lobbied hard to get local governments to allow them on bikepaths and trails. So now they play in to people laziness and instead of buying a bicycle they now are buying motorized vehicles to ride on bike paths and trails. Kills the sport
I have a good feeling that most people who ride an e bike have never ridden a bicycle other than Walmart quality. They are truly missing out and have no idea how a quality bicycle can ride so much better than the department store special.
@@normankalish3780Eh, it depends. If you purchased an ebike (sorry, not a e-moto) from a LBS with a torque sensor, then you may actually be working harder to get that bike to its full potential then on an acoustic. 28 MPH is a hell’ve a drug. I lost 10 lbs in a month because I have been working harder and riding more on my Yamaha Civante than on my poor neglected Trek Lexa. So don’t lump everyone into the same group. I agree that the internet bikes with cadence sensor do not make you work and will kill your cardio conditioning. To each his own.
Your attitude is what ails the two wheel world. You sound just like the local bike shop owner who lost two bicycle sales to me. I went internet. Bye bye.
You have no idea how much knowledge you must have to be a bike mechanic. Why shouldn.,t the wages be in line with automotive tech? It shouldn,t be a race to the bottom, the Walmart model.
I just bought a Yamaha pedal assist , used for my wife,I found out yamaha pulled out of the US market,didnt keep me from buying one of the last one from shop for half price,,they knew this market just liquified,,sad news ,bikes cost too much ,,Used is At least the way I buy.
After more than 300000 km my 2008 Scott Addict R2 is still hoing strong, fo all my own maintenance and have a new 11 spd Ultegra mechanical now. When the old Scott dies ill buy second hand, and save my money for travel to find new rides for the mighty Scott. Bike shops are crap now!!
Are people still cycling? Are they cycling more often or further? Conversely, are *more* people cycling? Is that trend continuing? What cycling activities are people cycling and where are they cycling? What should cycling advocacy groups emphasize to encourage more cycling activity?
You did not address the big growth in e bikes and pre owned bikes , both of which are hitting reasonable price points. Also, online sales are solid and easy to price shop. And finally, service of sophisticated mtb, e bikes , and electronic shifting. Should be lucrative.
@ Thanks, I’m planning on stripping my bikes and rebuilding. Cool channel, we have many good ones in the UK but yours has got a slightly different edge to it which is nice. Happy new year across the pond dude!
LETS GO! NEW YEARS RESOLUTION FITNESS BIKE SALES! Sell the hybrids and get people rolling. Independent Trek store slamming out the low end stuff. People are riding. Kids are riding. Xmas put a lot of kids on bikes in my neck of the woods. Don't forget to tell people that studded tires are a thing. Layer up and get out of town and ride some forgotten roads. Call in sick for a warm winter day. The next day at work will be just as believable to everyone at work because you will come into work in normal recovery condition. If you pedal harder you will get warmer. Find a new riding buddy. Everyone should. Faradfegnugen!
Shoving your dealer network under your own umbrella kinda reminds me of when Long Term Capital went ahead and shoved their own capital into their idiotic leveraged boondoggle ahead of their own investors.
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Coming up next Tuesday is 🚨"LIVE Shop Talk Tuesday.🎬 "at 10am Mountain Standard Time. We will dive deeper into this. More insights "As The Wheel Turns, So Do The Days Of Our Rides" playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLdfUXv0-z1u42bZpCLWmT2VtNW-7AIf2A.html
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What's the cassette lock ring tool you're using in this video? It looks quite nice.
@@lastfm4477 Feedback Sports Cassette and Rotor Lockring + Bottom Bracket Tool: amzn.to/4gyxdxr
About a dozen years ago I attended a dealer seminar provided by one of the big bike brands. They explained that they were working towards the auto-manufacturer model of trading, with exclusive stores and bikes with proprietary parts that could only be supplied by the brand. They told us that bikes would become far more complex, so that consumers could not work on them at home and would be reliant on the dealer for even basic service tasks. They told us that this complexity would increase price - which the consumer would be happy to carry in return for the additional feature - so that the dealer would score more margin. They told us that a three-year obsolescence cycle would be employed, so that the enthusiast consumer would retain a primary bike for only three years before it went out of fashion, was technically outmoded, or failed mechanically to the point of not being economically viable to repair. I remember thinking at the time that this brand was probably signing its own death warrant - but the entire industry has followed this model! So, lets just deal with one aspect of that. The concept store model doesn't work for the franchisee dealer. When the brand has a very popular model it runs out by May or earlier, and the dealer cannot fill the gap with other brands for the prime summer selling period. The brand expects the franchisee to invest heavily in stock ahead of the sales season, and then advertises discounted retail prices, over the dealer's head, if a model isn't as popular as expected and the brand is left with inventory that they need to clear. The franchisee recieeves no retrospective discount on existing stock, and is told to compnsate by buying more stock of the remaindered model at the newly discounted price - but it's an unpopular model late in the selling season! Today, brands are selling direct to consumer, over the dealer's head, but expect dealers to provide pre-sale and aftersales service without financial compensation. The consumer doesn't understand how business works, and is pissed that the dealer won't provide free services on product where no magin has been made. Additionally, part of the concept store deal is that the brand has oversight of the franchisee's accounts, in return for the supposed benefits of discounted POS items and extended credit for the franchisee - but only if targets are met. There are penalties for not meeting targets, but if targets are met then the brands expectations are raised, so that targets are increased and remain difficult to achieve, so that the brand's defined performance rewards never materialise. If a dealer tries to resist the offer of becoming a concept store, they are threatened with the brand withdrawing supply and going with another local dealer instead - or reducing margins if there's no rival dealer to use as a threat. Brands can be bullies, and life for a concept store can be far more difficult than for a dealer with a range of brands and freedom of choice. In my region, several prominent concept stores failed for these reasons. Generally, the entire trade and industry is failing due to becoming too corporate and too greedy. Bicycles are not cars, and users do not consume them in the same way. In a twist of fate, the auto-industry sales model, on which this has all been based, is also now failing. The landscape has changed, and a massive reset, with financial pain for many, is inevitable.
Wow, very insightful. What a bunch of greedy basterds....
Tldr
David Thanks for taking the time to post this. It explains exactly the arrogance of certain ‘manufacturers’ in seeking to force unwanted complexity and proprietory parts on customers for no benefit or more accurately to the direct detriment of customers. Allied with the withdrawal of proven effective solutions to force customers’ hands to satisfy their gross commercial greed. No surprise that people walk away and they are left staring into the abyss. Shaft your clientele and your business associates that’s exactly where they deserve to be IMO, crying over a worthless share value
@@kevinfrost1579 And many consumers have been fully complicit. It's like Brexit or Trump 2.0. Many people can easily be persuaded to act directly against their own interests, with unquestioning faith in the marketing BS, until it's way too late and the damage is done. Even then, many will never admit regret, because most do not want to demonstrate gullibility or foolishness. Those who readily bought into this nonsense, and shamed riding buddies (I've heard it happen) for not having hydraulic discs/tubeless/Di2/Rapha/a power meter/wide tyres/a Garmin/carbon frame/Japanese-schoolgirl socks/phone connectivity/internal lines/one-piece cockpit/a skinsuit/expensive bikefit/lights with cameras in/etc. bear much of the responsibility. They willingly collaborated with commercial suppliers who see the end user simply as a unit of potential revenue extraction, and now everyone in the business and hobby will suffer. The industry simply strives to meet demand, and achieve market share targets, in order to maximise return on investment. That's how business works. The majority of pro-level road bikes are bought by middle-aged potterers who will never race. It's total madness.
@@notreally2406 Your loss, sonny. LOL!
Im a road biker. in my experience when they brought in the disc brakes with the through axles and pushed the prices way up, that was the end for me. I was thrilled with my alumuinum frame carbon fiber fork and rim brakes. I can put on good shimano or aftermarket pads and stop very well . The bike industry decided everyone needed a corvette priced bike. we didnt. they created their own demise. then, in effort to cut costs they pushed you into an 8 speed setup low end shimano groupset on some of the entry level road bikes. give me a break guys. I collected 15 great early 2000's road bikes which i ride with great pleasure. and my brakes dont squeal like so many disc brake set ups when i stop. Too late now, bike industry not interested in anything but $$$$$$$$$$$ road bikes. it saddens me, but what can i do. industry priced me out
Off topic: The auto industry has gone down the same path.
Amen. Never attracted to MTB, bought gravel bikes and tried that, realized I didn’t enjoy spending so much time looking down. E-bikes seem a totally different activity, essentially an electric moped. Like pickleball is to tennis. I realized why road cycling is for me: covering longer distances, seeing varied scenery go by, and savoring the flow of rolling along a (fairly) smooth surface, under my own steam. In modern parlance, “meBikes” or (nod to Apple) “iBikes”.
A bar-end mirror plus tail radar help manage today’s increased traffic, bloated vehicles, and distracted drivers, crammed into the same 12-foot lanes. Prefer being in traffic rather than jammed to the right on the shoulder or in a bike lane where too often motorists don’t register a bicycle and turn across its trajectory - happened to me too many times.
Ditto on the disc brakes. So many long steep descents on rim brakes, never fallen, no exploding or overheated tires. Worried only once, at the top of a twisty switchbacked gravel strewn descent from a pass in the Sierra Nevada with full camping gear on my road bike - and that went OK. And today’s rim brakes (think Dura-Ace 9200) are light years better than the Weinmanns I used years ago. When the disc brake crusade started, I swallowed the rhetoric and bought a Trek with hydraulic discs. Riding it alternately with a similar Trek with rim brakes I couldn’t tell any difference - on alloy rims in the dry (not being paid to ride in the wet I avoid doing so). Needed to replace the frame on a carbon rim brake bike I was using, replacement rim brake carbon frames hard to find, got a custom double butted Ti rim brake frame made for similar cost, transferred components, total weight 1 lb more. Happy.
Silver lining of the disc brake crusade is that rim brake components were on sale really cheap! So I upgraded to Dura-Ace and bought spares too!
The end of what? ...you riding? ...or you upgrading?
@@notreally2406 "I collected 15 great early 2000's road bikes which i ride with great pleasure."
I was able to get a new steel Gunnar built up a few years ago, before they closed shop; at least they were able to close on their terms. I decided to get disc brakes to make my bike as future-proof as reasonably possible, although for me as far as any practical functionality I'm indifferent between disc or rim brakes. I got into road cycling toward the end of the era when you could build a bike up entirely as you want, before everything started shifting to almost entirely off-the-shelf bikes. I still have that mentality of getting everything on the bike exactly as I want it. I kinda feel like I'm part of a dying breed.
Bring back mechanical shifting and rim brakes
All three of my rides are OG and I can’t see any point in a new ride. Getting harder to find 2x10 rim brake shifters though 😂
Agreed! I would also add "no one needs an 11 tooth sprocket"
@@jack002tuber 100%. I just don’t get it. I was tempted to do a DI2 conversion for a hot minute on my Madone but after giving it some thought and doing some research my Ultegra cable shifters work so well what the hell is the point!?!
Mechanical Yea
Rim Brakes? NAH
I actually really like the idea of the bike market trending towards the smaller independent bike shops instead of the big stores. Home based shops? Hey, even better!
Yeah, they're definitely going to be the heart of the bike world. If we can get there.
Love hearing your perspective and thoughts on the industry. Keep the videos coming
I'm glad you like my take on the industry. There's more to come for sure.
This is why I have been buying 1) bike frames with v-brake studs before they disappear completely and 2) all the quality 8-speed components I can find. I hate disk brakes and an 8-speed bike delivers all the gear ranges I need for enjoyable cycling. I love biking and can work on my bikes with any problem that arises. I refuse to be a prisoner of the marketing and latest/greatest schemes. I just want to ride my bike and have fun and a well maintained 8 speed bike delivers all of that. I've got enough parts now to last me the rest of my cycling life - and all for way less than a single overpriced high end overhyped big name "hot" bike. They brought this upon themselves.
I Hate rim Brake
DISC BRAKE BETTER
Me too sticking to 9 spd and down tube shifters, I can repair
Our bike shop never left the community oriented neighborhood bike shop model. We may have lost out on some high end sales but we seldom have capital tie up on slow moving niche categories. Our E bike conversion product, Bafang BB S02 mid drives, allows us to sell applicable bikes off the floor or a customers existing bike to convert with far less after purchase servicing. We are seeing less volume but we are having higher quality and profit. Transportation and commuting is by far our biggest market.
That's a great strategy for navigating the changing market. Thanks for sharing.
So how are you dealing with us support or lack of wholesale pricing from Bafang?
The bicycle industry has fallen into the same trap that doomed the automotive industry during its heyday ,prioritizing planned obsolescence and profit over accessibility and durability. What once were simple, repairable machines are now proprietary, overcomplicated systems that alienate riders. Much like Detroit’s gas guzzlers of the past, the industry is flooding the market with high margin carbon bikes and trendy gravel models while ignoring the growing need for durable, affordable commuters.
The pandemic only amplified these failures. Instead of rising to meet unprecedented demand, manufacturers delivered inflated prices, dwindling quality, and incompatible parts all while claiming to “redefine cycling.” Independent shops suffered while corporate brands cashed in, leaving a glut of overpriced bikes no one asked for while everyday riders scrounged for secondhand alternatives.
Bikes were once symbols of simplicity and ingenuity, but today’s industry feels more like a cynical cash grab. Cycling deserves better, and if the next generation of riders demands it, maybe it can be that symbol of freedom again.
Thanks for sharing.
I’m 72 years old and have been riding bikes for about 67 years. I bought my last new bike in 1996, I think - one of the last “made in Italy” Bianchi road bikes. I’ve upgraded components a few times on that, but with everything I put into it, it still probably has less than $2K in it including the original purchase price (which was about $1k). And I love it. I’ve also bought a bunch of other bikes over the last 15-20 years. Always second-hand, always for less than $100, and customized them myself to serve specific purposes. (E.g. a grocery shopping bike, a “stealth” bike that rides really well but that looks awful, so I can leave it locked up with a cable lock at the train station and always find it when I get back, etc. ) The beautiful thing about these older bikes is that they’re SIMPLE - simple to ride, simple to work on, require a minimum set of tools and just some basic skills using them. And, with just a little care, they can last many decades.
What’s killing the bike industry is that they’ve lost touch with the average rider, and have focused on the ultra-high willingness to pay 0.001% of riders. That’s by definition a VERY low-volume market. If I were 30 years younger, I’d say I might own a bike with a bezillion gears, electronic shifting, hydraulic disk brakes and the rest … in another 30 years when they’d be on the second-hand market for the equivalent of $100. But I won’t be alive, and I have a feeling that those bikes won’t last that long anyway.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. It's a good reminder that we don't need the latest and greatest all the time.
We went to our small bikeshop to buy a new comfortable bike for my wife...All they had was bent over uncomfortable bikes for racers and mountain bikes...only one hybrid type...The sales man was a snotty kid who kept trying to push other bikes on us.....We left and went to Sheels and bought her a Townie...she loves it...She actually wants to ride with me now...
Cool story bro
A familiar story - too many in the industry only understand the race/performance customers; ordinary 'average' cyclists aren't catered for.
@@Andy_ATBThe race customers are about 3-5 percent of the market .
You encapsulated the problem my cheerful friend.
It shouldn’t be this hard to find a good bike shop. But who do you blame? I’d say it’s whoever owns the shop. You have to train your help, teach them how to listen. Remind them that you never truly know who you’re talking to. Looks can be deceiving! I’m always looking for the holy grail of bikes but, I tend to buy one down from the top of the line. With that being said, with a little coaxing you could probably get me to buy the top of the line one.
Schwinn actually had their own exclusive dealer network back in the day when they were a legit brand.
I still don't understand how the big bike companies, that have been doing business for many years and have seen smaller trends in the industry, could have thought that the spike of enthusiasm in cycling during the pandemic could have been anything but a very temporary thing. It seems as though they ramped up production and prices during this period thinking it was going to last several years. It makes no sense to me that they thought that that a viral pandemic was going to have a lasting effect on the bike industry.
I'm sure they believed too much that it would continue, but they could have thought that some of the people who started cycling because of quiet roads would continue to purchase better bikes in the future
Same thing has happened to snow mobiles, boats, rv's and the motorcycle industry. Greed and egos ignoring common sense.
I've worked in the industry since 1989 and I knew back in 2020 that they would end up overeacting and over producing! Same thing happened in the early 70's
The bicycle industry doesn't understand Merchandising or pretty much any creative approach to improve or grow. It's the evil twin to the auto industry. Independent and used is the way to go for me. This has been my ethos since I was a kid and I'm 55.
I couldn't agree more. Thanks for watching!
A few years ago I don't think that was a great plan, but today it sure is
This has been a good summary of the bike industry. I really hope our local bike shops survive and thrive. I also hope they branch out and learn to service e-bikes as well as direct to consumer e-bikes too. There's a huge market for service and maintenance for e-bikes.
Thanks for watching!
Independence and pre loved will win the game, mark my words! 😊 while the industry burns we continue to post record numbers
More bike paths??
We don't a better bike , we need better infrastructure.
Look no further than Netherland.
But the automobile industry and the oil industry don't benefit from more bike paths.
Absolutely!
@@IKnowAGuyBicyclesno
The bike stores say they heed a large profit to carry their inventory. But they have almost no e bike inventory and generally need to be order it.
Eight bikes in my collection...only one is from the 2000s...my favorite bikes are the early mountain bikes from the mid eighties and some from the nineties...I can't imagine that the new bike market can continue with so many great bikes available on the used market....schwinn high sierra, ross mt whitney, gt zaskar, specialized stumpjumper, trek 520 touring, '58 schwinn klunker, bridgestone xo1, schwinn paramount 70pdg
The early bikes were built to last!
my local bike shop always seems like a private club of snotty kids. i only go there as a last resort for service. i always leave feeling like crap. i find myself doing more and more of my own work.
@@kursk88-k1t Is that the only shop around you? I'm lucky that I have at least 3 within 15 minutes that are great. Even the higher end store that sells $9k+ TT and road bikes didn't blink an eye when I brought an old $300 amazon garbage bike in and said they were just happy I was on a bike at all. Any other shops around you that might not be so full of themselves?
You are WRONG. People aren't buying lots of bikes from Walmart, Target and sporting good chains. They are buying E bikes from websites. You can get a decent E bike for less than 2 grand delivered right to your front door within a week. Look around, there are more and more of them on the streets every day and people genuinely like them. That's the future of biking right there.
Dicks sporting goods is selling a lot of bikes. more than they did in the past. not everyone wants or can afford an E bike. now E bikes are the new devil to the political class and must be regulated , licensed, and insured in order to ride one. thats where that is going.
Yes they are and here is the data: www.bicycleretailer.com/archives/import-export-charts
@@IKnowAGuyBicyclesThat link doesn’t have any recent reports?
@@houseofroos unfortunately the current numbers are only in print form. But they still show about the same percentage to our current market.
Sadly true
As a consumer, I think you have excellent takes. There are a ton of people who would consider riding a bike around town, whether for daily errands or to commute a couple of times a week. They don't want a bike meant for sport, they want something comfy bought from a friendly shop where they don't feel intimidated to enter. Upselling them an e-bike is probably not all that hard, especially when it is packaged nicely with fenders and a basket rather than looking like a cyber truck. If that local shop offers them friendly service they will be happy to bring their bikes for maintenance and accessories like racks, bags, child seats, rain ponchos, non-sporty clothing, etc.
That is a growing market and friendly service is key. They don't want a weekly group ride, they want to replace their second car with something fun and cheaper than the car they can no longer afford.
It's all the gen z punks who are all butthurt they don't make enough money and instead of taking their issues up with the owner of the shop or the government (the ones who can fix their problem) they take it out on the customers and "quietly quit" or whatever the hell it's called
It's definitely a shift that's happening, and local shops need to embrace it!
I'm an old guy.
When I was a young rider in the 80s, I could afford a sweet Italian road bike and a sweet Ritchey mtb.
I learned to work on my bikes when we routinely repacked bearings by hand.
Now, not only cant a young rider afford even one sweet bike, they cant maintin it inexpensively.
The industry is gross now.
I still ride, and have gotten into sweet diy ebikes.
The last thing Id do is buy any of the industry offered e bikes for crazy money.
My most recent build was using a modern steel hard tail frame, hydraulic brakes, mechanical shifters and a nice E conversion kit that I can tear down and service myself. Package rounded out with an over built Clydesdale class carbon wheelset purchased off shore for half the price industry in North America demands.
Simple bikes, people can work on are awesome.
The industry sucks.
I have ebikes that out perform anything I can legally buy and can replace any component of the system myself.
I do have a workstand and relevant tools.
I dont see how the industry can expect to grow turning bikes into something an average person has to make a huge financial commitment to have AND requires dealer support/technicians if anything goes wrong.
Bikes are awesome. They always will be.
Much of the crap industry markets on the altar of high end consumerism represents everything that is wrong with the system we are all supposed to buy into and become wage slaves too.
I keep my rides easy to maintain and take full advantage of being able to order inexpensive parts to my door.
Im certainly not going to line the pockets of a big corporation or have any bike Id have to pay a bike mechanic to work on.
Bike mechanics is pretty straightforward stuff and anyone can learn it.
Even ebike motors are pretty straightforward.
I can do a complete teardown and rebuild of a Bafang mid drive, not that that is too necessary as theyll run thousands of miles.
But, parts are cheap, readily available and you arent beholden to industry and high priced help to keep your ride healthy.
Simple, robust easy to work on rides are gold.
Good tool options for cheap, access to repair information, and cheap used and new bikes have never been easier to get. The only bikes you need dealer support for are ebikes.
You ever take em’ off any Sweet jumps?
I'm 65 I've been riding bikes for 50 years these days I ride a 21 speed mountain bike that I converted to a 250 wat hub motor 36volt battery (street legal in Australia) 100 km range it's speed limited to 41kmh but if I don't run the motor, just pedalling i can do the same speed lol the conversion kit cost $1200 Australian the bike was $600 new it had disc brakes but they used cable to operate so I upgraded them to hydraulic so I could stop better i do all my own maintenance i just get parts from my local bike shop
Thanks for sharing your perspective.
I haven't bought a new bicycle since 1992. I have about 15 bikes, for commuting, sport riding and touring. There are literally millions of older bikes out there: high quality, in great condition, that work just fine, and that be bought for less than the price of a department store POS. They have the added benefit of being simple enough that anyone can do basic maintenance on them.
Yeah dude, I have 5 bikes all rim brake. Aluminium, carbon, Ti, Steel, chrome, Nobody on the group rides with their $12,000 disc bikes can drop me.
My prediction for 2024 that half of the cycling industry would go bankrupt. In Idaho Falls we lost half our local bike shops. My predictions for 2025 are (1) lower bike prices overall (30% off 2024) for used and new bikes, but (2) only 30% bankruptcy rate in cycling industry vs 50% for 2024, and a (3) cycling customer focus on utilitarian bikes over sport bikes.
I'm hearing similar stories from other areas. Thanks for sharing your insight.
@IKnowAGuyBicycles it isn't a happy prediction but if I am wrong then I will say 2025 was AMAZING and appreciate being happily wrong. May you be the most successful local bike shop owner in 2025!
@@IdahoFatTireBikeFun It's going to be where you leverage the success. It may not be service or sales. It could be a community, local ride events, and just being human and sharing that on socials. The money pots are definitely where I wasn't looking, and I am now starting to see where those opportunities lie. But we will see. Thanks for sharing.
@IKnowAGuyBicycles may I suggest that the financially and emotionally rewarding local bike shop owner's best 2025 option is the mobile bike repair van. There is a fellow here in the Silicon Valley (I am visiting my parents) that is booked 40+ hours per week repairing cyclists' bikes from his bike repair van. No business rent or overhead. No employees. And a clientele who loves seeing him.
After being in the bike life/ industry since 1987, I am happy I no longer have anything to do with bikes. I still ride once in a while, but it is always night rides, when I won’t run into today’s current crop of super hero’s….
Just do not want to have anything to do with the bikes or the current culture. I miss MTB from the late 80’s and early 90’s. Better bikes. Better culture. Better people.
Remember. You brought this on yourselves……
Switched most of my bikes to 8sp friction rear. Forgiving and easy to tune. You can commit part sins and stuff still works. (brake housing on shifter cables) If cues becomes a "thing" I might buy an Uno shifter and try out this newfangled 11sp one by revolution. For now, 3x8 on my HILLY commute just works.
Where I live, a triple is optimal. Recently bought an old chromoly bike with STX-RC 3x7. I enjoy it as much as my titanium Seven. I've sorta started hoarding mechanical and/or triple drivetrain parts. They just work well and for nearly an eternity when taken care of.
@@SurpriseMeJT warm spot in my heart for STX-rc. The only thing I hoard is old left side campy ergo's. 11 clicks of triple goodness.
Like 9 speed friction shifting with 1973 Campagnolo in a 126mm frame without cold setting the frame or forcing the wheel in. Restromod!
I believe a lot of your market share
will be moving to electric bikes
Former high school / college mechanic here. I don’t want to put repair shops and guys like you out of business , but why can’t we make a bike that rides for 5000 miles without any service? Seriously. Most people never clock that kind of mileage over the lifespan of a bike anyway. Engineered for durability and near zero maintenance. May be slightly heavier, slightly more expensive but they could be ridden and traded without concern of expensive repairs or obsolescence.
From what I see, there are only 2 demographics left. People who have the time and resources to leave town with a bike or live in the pricier neighborhoods, and the people who have no choice. The latter buys cheap used bikes or steals them. The rest of us who want to ride don't have the time to leave the suburban sprawl for the day. So, we just opted out.
If the industry wants to stay relevant, they need to pool their resources and lobby like mad for better bike friendly infrastructure. A 4ft wide strip on the side of traffic doing 50mph is not an option.
Absolutely, and the cost of one mile of bike path is insanely expensive. We need lower costs and more urban development of recreational paths for fun and, most importantly, commuting (Safely). I live in one of those better, not perfect communities, and it is so fantastic. I can ride all day without being on the same path twice for multiple days. It can be done.
All the big brands shareholders isnt laughing, but the name of the game😊
Hidious sums for bikes is not getting back their investment.
A pro dont pay to ride, they get payed. And the rest (99.987%) of cyclists do pay! Its like paying 1900$ for a cup of coffe.... Those that just do club races and have to take a loan at the bank to have that 10-15000$ needs counselling if you ask me.
A good amateur could achieve with 1/5th.
My hometown will be without a bicycle shop soon.... greed has destroyed the small shops
Sorry to hear that! Thanks for sharing. What's the name of the shop?
2000’s road bikes are amazing value and sometimes have top end 10 speed stuff on them, they are my favourite. You can get an immaculate litespeed titanium ( tdf standard) bike for about a thousand pounds. Why the hell would I buy a current bike with pointless electic gears?
Have you ever tried electric gears? They work amazingly!
@ until the battery dies.
@@ullrichjanullrich3612 like your phone?
Incredible that the entire cycling industry got it wrong during the pandemic.
I picked up a bike before the shortage and price increases in early 2020 and then got back into the market last year.
Was there any one brand that got it right and pumped the brakes for the orders? Or was it really groupthink and no one took a step back to consider the long-term effects?
every outdoor industry did the same thing, same wiith gym equipment!
Happy 2025 to you sir
I'm a year round courier in Toronto Canada
I found your video very enlightening
As a very interested observer of the bike industry I think one of the biggest mistakes i see is that a lot of shops have sold high end racing equipment to new riders who have not got the miles into the sport to appreciate it; and really don't need it
I average 200kms per week for work on a 97 Cannondale F700 mtb; for the majority of my riding I don't need or want Duraace DI2 or SRAM
Yet everyday I see someone ride by me with a UCI world tour quality bike and Nike Stan Lanes with a dollar store lock; struggling to stay up right when the road tips up .5%
Selling people the correct bike rather than the most expensive thing in the shop might help with repeat business IMHO
Same to you! Thanks for sharing.
I love my LBS! Over the last 15 years or so my wife and I have bought 6 bikes from them and I continue to buy almost everything part/accessory-wise from them. My dealer comes really close to online pricing (usually about a 10% delta) and I'm happy to give them the business for that margin as they're always wiling to help, get us in really quickly when we have an issue and seem to be really good people. In fact, over the winters here in VT I'll make a list of anything that I "need" for the upcoming season, provide it to the shop and they'll order what I want over the winter and then when I bring my bike in for a service I'll pick those items up. It's really interesting to hear your thoughts on the bike industry and I hope you keep up the great work and content!
Thanks for watching!
road bike era. big spike in interest when compact cranksets came out. perfect for the recreational rider. then on to disc brakes and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. that ended the party.
the brake pads for my Ultegra discs cost the same as the rubber pads on a caliper brake-$11
@@michaelmartin3400 Who changes the fluid and aligns the disks? Cleans the disks, replaces the pads? I do none of that with my rim brakes
@@jack002tuber Cleaning rotors and replace pads very simple job- I replaced more cables in brakes than I have needed to replace mineral oil...
What i expect, and we haven't seen yet, it the total failure of one or more major brands. Wal*Mart/Target are already moving away from selling bike to you come, we order and assemble. GT has already basically disappeared, but they concentrated in one niche market. The Government doesn't have the resources to bail out a bike brand and may actually like to reduction in brands.
Over time, only the frames change for fashion. Components will remain the same because wheels will still be round and chains will still move those wheels.
Love that LeMond and the Klein👍👍
Our friend is making $$$ in his shop because he sells service... he gets dealer discounts on all his bikes if the dealer drops prices,,, they get their bikes dirt cheap because they buy bulk... if you don't cover all out-door actives and sports it will be hard too stay in the game... they sell everything and do quite well... 😂
That' fantastic! Thanks for sharing.
That Lemond is a sweet machine- wish mine looked that good
Alot of people are buying used because they dint want to pay 6k for a bike when they can pay 2-3k so that bike industry is getting better.
Only us old people are buying bikes and we are buying ebikes now. Kids these days are at home on their phone. Overall, the continued downturn in pedal bikes will continue over the next few years. As conponents become electronic and brand like oneup develop components that are easily serviable, will bike service shops really be that needed in the future?
eBikes are still pushing the market, but they will be flooded with non-name brands and cool in the next year or two. However, there is a huge service opportunity in working on them.
I'm ASSUMING YOU HAVE ABANDONED ALL CURRENT TECHNOLOGY? WHY IS IT THAT SO MANY PEOPLE DECIDE A PARTICULAR YEAR WAS THE BEST FOR TECHNOLOGY AND EVERYTHING PRODUCED SINCE THEN IS NO GOOD? All the steel cult cyclist in my area carry super expensive smart phones, not cell phones from 1995. To each his own!
That LeMonde is gorgeous.
Local bike shops are withering on the vine in some countries, especially europe. I can see prices still rising into 2025 but a burgeoning second hand market undercutting the ridiculous retail prices of brand new. The LBS can tap into this market if they're able to offer good pricing and warranty
The local bike shop will only survive by servicing products- you can't buy that on the internet, They have no margins selling bicycles and accessories because they are competing with internet sales that pay staff minimum wage, and after the purchase offer nothing!
Seems like a really accurate analysis. Also, local bike shops that will not adapt to service, parts, and lower price point bikes will not survive.
Adaptability is key, thanks for watching!
most lower price point bikes are not made to be serviced.
The bikes at Costco and Sam's Club look like cheap junk. I think that once you go electric you never go back.
The bike industry did this to themselves... They got WAY too greedy and now it's coming back to hurt them. Who wants to spend 3-4k plus on a metiocre bike, ESPECIALLY in this economy?
A nice, reliable entry-level bike by a big brand name like Trek should run ~$500 give or take. Amateur bikes should be ~1-2k and an expert bike should be about ~3-4k. I can see the justification if state-of-the-art bikes for the pros would be 10k and up but most people can't afford that.
The bike shops need to clean up their act too. I'm tired of the horrible service. Luckily I have a steel frame road bike with rim brakes and external cables so it's super easy and CHEAP to service. I would never in a million years let some gen z PUNK at a LBS wrench on my bike. I can order and install my own parts for my bike thank you very much.
Maybe if the entire model were changed to focusing less on coming out with new models each year and instead investing its energy into assisting customer service. Do we actually need a new Specialized or Litespeed bike year after year? Maybe not. Perhaps the industry could go to having a new model every two or three years. The pandemic led to an overabundance of bikes, and too many ebike riders are using them as mopeds. In 2025, now would be a great time to think about what it is the public really needs instead of pushing out new models year after year.
Great insights, thanks for sharing!
A lot of bike companies have already abandoned model years, the auto industry should do the same thing
Bicycles, RVs, snowmobiles and other leisure expenditures will be impacted the most during economic downturns. The pendulum will eventually swing back.
As someone with 30 years of experience as a bicycle commuter and mechanic, dismissing bikes as merely “a leisure expenditure” is both inaccurate and reductive. This oversimplification fails to acknowledge the practical, environmental, and economic roles bicycles play in daily life. Moreover equating bicycles to RVs is a deeply flawed analogy that overlooks the fundamental differences in purpose, accessibility, and impact. Such comparisons not only misrepresent the value of cycling but also trivialize its significance as a legitimate mode of transportation.
Most innovations in cycling came from the ground up. Merchandising and big corporations destroyed that. Modern equipment is expensive rubbish, which is not durable or value for money. Ordinary folk need practical bicycles with mudguards, capable as use for transport and recreation. The big cycle corporations think racing bikes or mountain bikes, both types developed for competition. Not practical for a leisurely cycle to the shops and to load up with groceries. The designed in redundancy in these modern machines means that their components are worn out of two years of regular use, and very expensive to replace. I have seen an elderly man locally out riding his 1950s Claud Butler bike fitted with a Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub gear. It was parked outside the Lidl store a few weeks ago snd I saw him pedalling into town to meet up with friends. He bought the bike secondhand and it does everything he requires at minimal cost to him, unlike modern bikes.
Thank you for sharing!
Canyon partnering w REI was smart.
In our shop the Canyon customers want us to drop everything we are doing to answer their questions about their bike's technology, yet they get upset when we try to charge them for our expertise. Buying onlione to get it cheaper will come back to bite them!
@@michaelmartin3400 They will be trained Canyon techs and a bike dealer. No more consumer direct only from Canyon in the USA.
2018 was the beginning of the downturn. The Interbike trade show was half the size as previous years.
I was at the last 2 shows. It was pretty bleak compared to the '90s and pre-internet.
I retired from the wholesale side right as Covid was ramping up, I remember flying back from the Denver show in March and retired in April. Things really got really crazy, guess I was kind of lucky. Good luck!
As a nurse, I retired 6 months before covid!
Industry and many local shops have pushed me go back to 26 wheels
I had a stint at a Trek owned store . Service by cyclists , and some by general experience retail staff who do product training before starting work . Privately owned dealers have more experirience in most cases .
I'm so glad you shared that insight. Thanks for watching.
I will grease my freehub now before installing the cassette. Greetings from the Highlands of Scotland.
Thanks for watching!
Why? The fit of a cassette to the freehub body isn't an interference fit, it isn't even a clearance fit. There is not even a chance of gavanic corrosion happening the cassette and body because the contact points minimal and aren't tight.
@@lastfm4477@lastfm4477 It's not just rust you have to worry about (lower-end parts); it's dirt and other contaminants. It provides a waterproof barrier and also makes removal a little easier.
Love it - my bike on the wall :-)
How to get people on bikes, that's the question. People have money, maybe not a budget for the big brands, but they'll part with their money if they feel motivated to go out and ride, a used bike, e bike, or whatever, but brands need to figure out a way to get more normal people riding, anything.
Absolutely, thanks for sharing!
Young people have been convinced by their parents that cycling is unsafe. Now, they would rather buy a throwaway electric bike or skooter. Why do you think 40% of the population is obese!
I feel like smaller/agile shops and manufacturers can ride this out. Bloated shops/manufacturers with too much debt and overhead will have to fall apart and restructure, be acquired, or disappear. A small "local-ish" manufacturer (Esker, formerly known as Advocate) left our area and consolidated back to their MN location after cost of rents and real estate doubled or more a couple years ago. Far as I can tell they're doing fine.
It's interesting to see how the industry is adapting!
ALL the local bike shops in my area sell more than just bikes. Only 1 which is one of the oldest still survives selling just bikes. Some shops sell ski equipment, tennis gear, running shoes, fitness equipment to survive. Unfortunately I find the independent bike shops have a very elitists mentality. They try desperately to have a community connection. However with today's social networking and the internet as a knowledge base, people of bike riding age don't care about local community bike shops. They want to get a good bike for nothing. I see it all day at the bike co-op I work at. When the bike breaks they are shocked by a local bike shop repair estimate. They donate the bike and go buy another cheap POS bike from the internet or Walmart or Dicks. I don't see local bike shops surviving on bike sales alone. Better get ready to file for bankruptcy.
Some valid points, thanks for sharing.
SO TRUE!
Please don't forget Bicycle co Ops. We started advertising and Sold many bicycles. People want inexpensive bicycles. That's all some people can afford. We have a room of used bike parts . I'm willing to put Ten hours fixing my bike but not willing to put a eighty are a hundred dollars into a bike. Our co-op we can buy a bike at $80 and put $ 500 in parts on it that type of deal is hard to beat .
The Chinese are coming. They make all the components, they make the bikes, but the brands control the sales market. The Chinese are now building their own brands, selling direct, using influencer reviews on UA-cam to build awareness. I was looking at Trek and Cube e-bikes but couldnt really justify their prices - so I didnt buy. On reflection, my mind said “I want a Ferrari, but I need a Ford” so I changed my aspirations. I ended up buying a Mokwheel Mesa Light from a reviewer who makes his money from selling the bikes that the companies send him to review. I paid 20% of the price of a Trek or Cube and I am SO pleased with the bikes design and quality.
Thanks for sharing.
Man. I feel like Trek is gonna go under.
Everything is Changing !
Its definitely gonna be interesting to say the least...
Right!?! 2024 was not a very good ending for some companies. Thanks for watching!
Yeah! It's definitely gonna be interesting to say the least 😅😅
I spoke to my local bike shop and here are his thoughts.
People who buy expensive bikes don't take into account the price of new components like chains, cassettes.
The internet is destroying bike shops, people come into the shop and get advice, leave and buy it on the internet.
Ebikes are a big market but if it goes wrong then staff don't have the electronic knowledge to fix them straight away, it's a send back to manufacturer or wait for a part to arrive.
Please who buy it bikes don't think about replacement battery and parts costs.
.
most professional shops send their mechanics to train in Shimano and Bosch electric bike systems. The bikes that can't be serviced are generally bought online/.
Mail orders eroded the market starting in the 80s-90s, so that isn't new. But the delivery process has improved, so I can get bike stuff in a day or even the same day. The shop has adapted to that in the last 10-15 years.
In my case, the internet is what makes my business possible.
eBike is here to stay, but the market will soften like all other cycling niches, and you will find big shops that will do everything. You will find a lot of small shops with single niches (Road, MTB, eBike, Tri, etc.) that will be more prevalent going forward.
The trends are goings towards Bike Shops will be 90% repairs and service.
Especially when large web retailers are selling parts cheaper than wholesalers QBP and BTI.
That is what it has shifted to in my market and others. Jenson USA and 365 Cycles are just a few that leverage online sales to the point I don't need to have dealer agreements with any of them to do what I do. It's pretty lovely NOT to have reps to deal with. Thanks for sharing!
The thing is every body is crying for old brands (currently GT) are going bankrupt, atlest the sentimetal part of the bike internet. However the mass of consumers doesn't give a shit about them.
The era has changed. You don't have to buy an overpriced Trek or Specialized while you can get a Canyon. There are no huge gaps and modern geometry is know-how, not a price package.
But, If you have money you can get better and more exotic bikes than the "old high end big brands". And root problem is since the the bike industry is outsourced to Asia atlest 4 decades, every one is have their product made there. So mostly you are paying for the brand (eg marketing), not the actual product. And yes, 4 decade of bike know-how is there, no one can compete with them by price/mass production quality. (If they are willing to pay for better at the original manufacturer.)
Does anybody know where the hell is Cannondale? Obsolite brand with heritage.
Mongoose? Bigbox store shit.
Big chain shit should be illegal.
You have some valid points, thanks for sharing!
I live in Azerbaijan and there are very few middle to high end bikes.
I bought a cheap Azerbaijan bike which have surprisingly good frames and upgraded some of the components.
total spend was sub$1000.00 and it rides as well as much more expensive bikes I have at home in the UK.
Only last year did I buy a good quality second-hand carbon bike with Etap shifters. I bought as I wanted to know how much of a difference there was between something fairly current against by 40 plus year old quality race bikes. I am suspicious of the current business models and built in obsolescence, hence, I will never part with my old bikes as I can still race and train on those and well cared for, they will outlive me. Nothing wrong with the KISS principle. As for the difference between old and new: the biggest advantage (of many small advantages over many years development) is the shifter on the brake lever assemblies, which are very, very convenient when racing.
Customer service is gone and the focus of bike shops is ONLY the "25" year old cyclist. Cost too high comprehensive knowledge of training and product is limited (-)
Excellent analysis. I think you are at the right size for your business and agile enough to move to where the business is.
Thanks for watching and for the feedback!
I would never buy the ozark trail bike. It has a very nice aluminum frame, but the groupset is trash.
However, for those on a budget, that may be their only option. Used bikes are a great alternative.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles I totally agree! Maybe they can buy that bike used and completely gut the group set and go to some local bike nonprofit and pick up an exellent older 9 speed shimano xt groupset.
I also blame a lot of the price issues on niche bike brands. All these pop up brands are charging big bike prices causing the big brands to say fine we will keep our prices high as well. I’d like to see the books of companies like your home state has of like Mosaic… Cost more than a Madone or Tarmac…
Intersting point.
I remember watching a video from back when covid hit. It showed a big wig from specialized telling all the companies they farmed their production out to that they needed to increase capacity. Specialized doesnt build their own bikes. THEY needed to build more plant and equipment, not specialized. They needed to take the risk, spend the money, not specialized. I thought at the time, wow, how he plays these people for patsies. Shameful the manipulation that was attempted.
Good point, thanks for sharing.
There are a lot of smart asses out there in the bike industry trying to push $10,000 bikes😮 they are cocky and arrogant I will never buy from people like that and most of your bike shop guys are that way
So true!! 😡😡
Unfortunately, this is true in most shops, but not all.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles agreed
Yeah its just SHOCKING!!!
The tariffs will raise the price of Walmart bikes and so increase market share of the lower specced brands at small bike shops and trek/spec etc.
I guess we will see.
Venture capital firms ruined much of the cycling vibe/community.
Really hoping Rocky Mountain gets bought back by cyclists much like Kona did earlier this year.
Anyone who asks me what kind of bike to get for cruising around, I recommend finding an 80s bike on a marketplace. The price you pay will be the same as a new heavy big box store bike.
I actually own 2 treks and 2 old Fujii and I actually love them. Have over 30k miles on the oldest. No real reason to buy a new one. The components and frame quality is really good, and I'm not going to win any races...
After repeated negative experiences with shop owners and trash wages for too long I bailed on a career as a mechanic early 2022. So glad that I did, I went back to university & started a new career with way higher earning potential with not even a 3rd the stress. Too bad you can't build a future as a tech with decades of industry experience. I watched what was an somewhat accessible sport devolve into a fantasy play piece that only doctors & lawyers can afford. This correction is way overdue, the bike industry earned it's failure. Still it's a shame to see some major legacy brands capsizing. Also good luck everyone if the independent LBS goes under, you'll be totally fucked when it comes to repairs/maintenance. Can't learn everything on UA-cam, I'm taking my 25yrs experience and tools & peacing out.
Definitely right! At the shop we just love it when someone comes in and wastes an hour of our time to explain how to fix their Canyon, or other brand they bought online to "save money"
@@michaelmartin3400 Ah yes, the 'ol "tap 'em for knowledge then spend dollars online" routine. The condescending novella fan-fiction about the functional issues. It can be challenging to keep a smile on. However, I think that repair based service will be the only reliable income stream for any worthwhile LBS.
These are valid points. I did the same in 2005 and worked at the shop for side money for nine years. What I do wouldn't even pay the bills; for most people, it would be more of a retirement gig, with a significant other bringing in the bacon. Thanks for sharing.
Happy New Year.
Happy New Year to you too!
So, in a nut shell corporate greed. Hence why I am not shedding one tear for the ones failing and the ones already closed.
The industry needs to focus on entry to mid level mtb trail specific bikes. Leaving the highend as bispoke order trims. Rather than offering two to 3 high-end kit trim levels. You offer a frame and have 5 to 10 component lines for each aspect of the bike, such as drive train, suspension, bearings, cockpit, and so forth. The rider builds their bike through the factory, putting money where they want it and need and save on the rest. You wait a few weeks and get your bike.
Also, the direct order model will kill the sport long term as it only benefits current participants. It's a hidrents to new entrants as they have no clue how to maintain a bike. A mom and pop bike shop network is greatly needed to act like a liason between the consumer and manufacturers. The pricing needs to go down and margins up so the shop can take care of his customers right, building strong, long-lasting relationships, and repeat business. While making a comfortable, non greedy profit environment, opposite like these trek and specialized specific stores push sales to make the most profit possible.
Also, more shops need to buy and sell used parts and bikes. Just because a bike is 5 plus years old and in great cosmetic and mechanical condition it should be treated like a used car. Still hold high value as it will be used for parts or as a great bike for someone new on a budget or veteran rider that wants quality but not the outrages price tag.
I currently purchased a new Kona through my local shop on an amazing trade-in and cash deal. The owner wanted my bike for 2 years now. I got a fair trade in value where I avoid the hagling of Facebook market place or other sites. He makes money flipping it or the parts. Although the kona is a more basic model. By the time I spent in full upgrades to equal out the door sticker price of 3000 Canadian on the bike, I got dirt cheap. I will have a 5500 to 6500 Canadian aluminum FS for 3 grand. Buying parts on sale online or used through shops.
His model of getting kids and adults on to a bike by any means new or used and budget necessary while taking care of them and there needs, and future bike needs have made him very successful. While the other more established and longer in business stores are beginning to fail in the area. As they only see the sale, not the person in front of them.
Some great points, thanks for sharing.
Bikes got too crazy the last 10years bikes a little older were more simple basic long lasting
Making rocket science out of making and selling a bicycle. How screwed up that is
I’m in the market for a used road bike. But I’m nervous about buying used CF. New road bikes I like cost $5K!
Used bikes can be a great way to get into the sport! You can get one and have it tuned up for under 1k. Win, Win, Or check out this video I made about Mendham.ua-cam.com/video/RbjoiIYo9RI/v-deo.html
All I can say is there's a glut of hardly used bikes on the secondhand market going cheap. Why buy new?
Absolutely!
The emotorcycle (I refuse to call them bicycles) industry is part of the reason. They won. They lobbied hard to get local governments to allow them on bikepaths and trails. So now they play in to people laziness and instead of buying a bicycle they now are buying motorized vehicles to ride on bike paths and trails. Kills the sport
I have a good feeling that most people who ride an e bike have never ridden a bicycle other than Walmart quality. They are truly missing out and have no idea how a quality bicycle can ride so much better than the department store special.
@@normankalish3780Eh, it depends. If you purchased an ebike (sorry, not a e-moto) from a LBS with a torque sensor, then you may actually be working harder to get that bike to its full potential then on an acoustic. 28 MPH is a hell’ve a drug. I lost 10 lbs in a month because I have been working harder and riding more on my Yamaha Civante than on my poor neglected Trek Lexa. So don’t lump everyone into the same group. I agree that the internet bikes with cadence sensor do not make you work and will kill your cardio conditioning. To each his own.
Your attitude is what ails the two wheel world. You sound just like the local bike shop owner who lost two bicycle sales to me. I went internet. Bye bye.
The price of bike shop repairs are at times outrageous. This propels some to learn bike repair.
So what is considered a reasonable hourly rate that covers your repair and the cost of lease, insurance, training, paroll and taxes?
You have no idea how much knowledge you must have to be a bike mechanic. Why shouldn.,t the wages be in line with automotive tech? It shouldn,t be a race to the bottom, the Walmart model.
I just bought a Yamaha pedal assist , used for my wife,I found out yamaha pulled out of the US market,didnt keep me from buying one of the last one from shop for half price,,they knew this market just liquified,,sad news ,bikes cost too much ,,Used is At least the way I buy.
After more than 300000 km my 2008 Scott Addict R2 is still hoing strong, fo all my own maintenance and have a new 11 spd Ultegra mechanical now. When the old Scott dies ill buy second hand, and save my money for travel to find new rides for the mighty Scott. Bike shops are crap now!!
Unfortunately some are. Maybe the new market will change that.
Are people still cycling? Are they cycling more often or further? Conversely, are *more* people cycling? Is that trend continuing? What cycling activities are people cycling and where are they cycling? What should cycling advocacy groups emphasize to encourage more cycling activity?
Here, it's huge, but everyone has bought their 5k-10k bikes, and the market currently needs 1k or less.
Hopefully they make a rule where bicycles that think they’re cars can’t hog the road while going slower than the speed limit.
Shimano, Sram, Campagnolo or one of the Chinese brands should a belt drive. Shimano already have hub gears, CUES was the ideal opportunity to do this.
You did not address the big growth in e bikes and pre owned bikes , both of which are hitting reasonable price points. Also, online sales are solid and easy to price shop.
And finally, service of sophisticated mtb, e bikes , and electronic shifting. Should be lucrative.
Good point! It's going to be a big shakeup.
What is that oil used at the start of the video please?
Thanks for watching! It is Tri-Flow Superior Lubricant: amzn.to/41W7TNA
@ Thanks, I’m planning on stripping my bikes and rebuilding. Cool channel, we have many good ones in the UK but yours has got a slightly different edge to it which is nice. Happy new year across the pond dude!
@adammillsindustries. Thanks for watching!
LETS GO! NEW YEARS RESOLUTION FITNESS BIKE SALES! Sell the hybrids and get people rolling. Independent Trek store slamming out the low end stuff. People are riding. Kids are riding. Xmas put a lot of kids on bikes in my neck of the woods. Don't forget to tell people that studded tires are a thing. Layer up and get out of town and ride some forgotten roads. Call in sick for a warm winter day. The next day at work will be just as believable to everyone at work because you will come into work in normal recovery condition. If you pedal harder you will get warmer. Find a new riding buddy. Everyone should. Faradfegnugen!
Thanks for sharing!
Shoving your dealer network under your own umbrella kinda reminds me of when Long Term Capital went ahead and shoved their own capital into their idiotic leveraged boondoggle ahead of their own investors.
They have clearly been going the wrong way for a long time.
I dont have anything against the LBS other than they absolutely hate well informed customers who are aware of market prices for parts.
Far point.