Please "Like" and also " Share" to keep the conversation going. Coming up next Tuesday is 🚨"LIVE Shop Talk Tuesday.🎬 "at 10am Mountain Standard Time. We will dive deeper into this. More insights "As The Wheel Turns, So Do The Days Of Our Rides" playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLdfUXv0-z1u42bZpCLWmT2VtNW-7AIf2A.html Tools and Products Featured (Affiliate): 🛠 Shop Tools to Parts That I Use in the "Garage Shop": www.amazon.com/shop/iknowaguybicycles 🚿 15% Off Lithium Products that I used in this video: lithiumautocare.com/?ref=IKnowAGuyBicycles 👕 "The Guy's" T-Shirts: i-know-a-guy-bicycles.myspreadshop.com/
The key is to be a bicycle mechanic, not a bicycle retailer. Many businesses just want to sell something out of a box, but don't want to roll up their sleeves and make money the hard way but also the best way. However, to truly make a living fixing bicycles we are going to need a societal mindset shift in the way people see bicycles as transportation and not just toys. Maybe a 1970s style oil crisis will be the motivating factor for many to take up bicycling again.
@@Adventures4vida Here in Vegas, a bicyclist is viewed as a plus points moving target. No kidding. We've had crazies deliberately running cyclist over. I still pedal, just on vacant roads or trail. Major roads are not wise to travel by bike or foot. I keep praying to God Almighty for $15/gal gas.
In my area, alot of the bike shops expanded into clothing/running/lifestyle. They cut way back on middle/low end bikes and shoved used out to the parking lot or just stopped that end of the biz. The most annoying part was some refusing to repair bike brands they didn't sell and getting snarky if you didn't buy the bike from them.
Wow! Those shops are losing out. I embrace working on all brands of bikes, etc. However, when folks bring in a bike for a repair and bring in their own parts, I gladly upcharge 20% on my labor fee.
Yeah, I think the big key thing to focus on now for bike shops, especially small to mid sized shops is SERVICE. Good service and FRIENDLY service. I think you nailed it.
Funny how that comment focused on friendly service. For years if you went into the mom and pop bike store in town you got waited on by the owner's wife. She was condescending & really had a way of rubbing customers wrong, it was so much better talking to one of the employees who was either a Mechanic or a bike racer.
Excellent review of the current affair of the bicycle business. It irritates me that the LBS that were responsible for the for success of the big bike brands turned around and screwed the very shops that made them big.
Middle class bikeshops need middle class consumers. The problem for the retail sector is income inequality, with very high value customers, and lots of paycheque to paycheque consumers with less and less income left at the end of the month. The middle is getting destroyed.
Same all over the world, small business people soon to retire or want to cannot because the public is not educated on how to buy an existing business that is making money. Codie Sanchez has written a book on exactly this issue. She is a former Wallstreet exec for Vanguard and has been practicing what she teaches. Media company is Contrarian.
🫢🤔😑I appreciate the insight, I support my adrenaline junkie existence by ; ' word of mouth spread' bike delivery stuff-- interval/ sprint WORK, also do ' observational safety\ security work' do lap\ cadence work around warehouse/ industrial area.
I think cities and states could help revive the middle-class bike shop by improving their bike infrastructure so that it actually goes places that average people need to go. I think that it would make commuting by bicycle practical, which would drive demand when compared to the high costs of commuting by car. Where i live in Virginia, they built a protected bike route that connects Richmond to Williamsburg. Ive seen a few bike shops open up along the route, and it looks like theyre doing well for themselves.
We have a local Trek store. The prices are insane. Some bikes were literally $10k. Really, really nice but $10k! I also HATE carbon fiber for many reasons. Too delicate and can fail randomly, like that Submarine. Hard to fix if you drop it.
It's been fascinating viewing the carnage in the industry. We are finishing up a record year at our shop. We focus on used bikes for everyday people, and I believe it has struck a chord.
My LBS is a small shop, and very close. At first the shop offered service, and carried a small amount of used inventory. In the past couple years they have jumped on the e-bike bandwagon. These aren't the big names either. My hope is that they will continue to adapt and thrive. It's such a great shop because the guys are chill, up front of costs, and do good work.
The market has been heading that way for the last 15 years. This has fast-forwarded the big brand issues, and they may not recover or at least be as strong in their markets. The shops that have chimed in having great years have been the used bike market and service shops. It's good for them to see and react.
It’s all about e bikes, people just are not buying analog bikes anymore. I just bought a $2000 Wired Freedom which is a 26x4 full suspension fat tire with a 60v (2100 wh battery) system that produces 3200 watts peak, accelerates like a car, and can easily keep up with traffic with a 40mph top speed. I own eight analog bikes and never ride them anymore. A powerful fat tire e bike is so much more fun and infinitely more comfortable to ride and offers more utility than any analog bike. If you are not selling and servicing e bikes, you will not be in business for long.
Why not just admit that you're riding a motorbike? That thing isn't even comparable or in the same category. Plus, it would be illegal in most countries in the world unless it could pass the motorbike requirements. I service actual e-bikes all the time; I would turn away your motorbike.
What happened? The Internet. I walked into my local shop to price a small seat bag-pouch. $50 bucks is what they wanted. I got a ROCK BROS one on EBAY for $15 bucks. The prices that bicycle shops charge for ANYTHING hanging on a rack is outrageous.
ebay turned me off out with cheap knock offs. I bought a set of avid bb7 mech brakes and they were garbage. Right now internet retailers have some major discounts.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles - I’m an online customer of Performance and even used to shop at its stores in Chapel Hill, NC and Newark, DE back in the 2000s. But I started buying mail order from Nashbar in the 1980s when they would regularly mail their catalogs, printed on newspaper-type paper, from their HQ in Ohio to your home. Performance improved the mail order experience with its color catalogs, but it was Nashbar that started the market IMHO.
During the 80's I worked in a, "mom and pop," bicycle shop as a mechanic in a mostly working class neighborhood. The shop did well, but, if the owners hadn't done repairs, the shop would never have survived on bicycle sales alone. I remember hearing that some shops would only perform repairs on bicycles they sold, but the shop I worked in would repair any bicycle that could be repaired. That worked out well for them because most people who lived in the area couldn't afford the bicycles in the shop, or they didn't want to spend that much money on a, "toy." Most people in the area purchased their bicycles at department stores or Target (Walmart had not yet arrived in the area). After listening to the video it amazes me how many shops limited and probably still limit who they did or do repairs for, and possibly the types of repairs. I understand why an internet based business cannot do repairs, but I cannot imagine a bicycle shop turning down the opportunity to make money on repairs. Well - now that I think about it, I guess it does eliminate some headaches to be selective. There was always the hassle of having to call a customer and tell them that I found an additional thing wrong with the bicycle I was repairing and then telling them what the added cost was. Those calls were most interesting when I would get accused of saying something needed repaired when it didn't, or getting accused of damaging a bicycle, so the shop could make more money. I never did anything like that, and, as far as I know, nobody else who worked there did that, so it was always an annoying shock. There were also the people who wanted something repaired, but didn't want to pay the cost to repair it, so they would try to talk the shop down on the price. They seemed to like to do it after they had been quoted the price, they acknowledged that they knew what the cost would be, the repair was done, the parts were installed and the labor had been spent. There were other issues too, and I won't write a novel about that, but I guess I can see why shops might not want to do repairs, if they don't have to.
Same here - countless times the Big-T sales rep would tell us Bully-Boy Burke was gonna open another dealer right down the street if we didn't do X or Y. The owner would tell 'em to pound sand since he was a dealer BEFORE he carried their bikes and would continue to be one if they took 'em out or (stupidly) set up a competing store down the street. They backed-down every time!
I went to the local Incycle this weekend to browse any deals they had and get a crank set inspected. I asked the rep if they sold a lot of bikes on Black Friday and he said they sold 2 bikes and it was a pretty good sales day for them.
My local one died out a few years ago. They used to have a basement full of used bikes and sold hundreds per year. They no longer care about your average persone, only about the commission they get for selling $3k bikes to doctors and lawyers (the only people in my small city that can reasonably afford it) I went in recently to get the crank on my **$50 Schwinn Al Comp** replaced, dude INSTANTLY says "oh don't even waste your money" and proceeds to wheel over a gen 3 Marlin 5. 🤦♂️
Hopefully things improve with shops. Around me it just seems there are what I call boutique shops. If you want to spend $8k, $10k, $12k on a bike and thousands more on kit and accessories, they are perfect ... but this is just a small percent of riders. A great thing about cycling is that it does not * need * to be very expensive or complicated. I have enjoyed fairly modern carbon bikes, but also get great enjoyment from an old steel bike that cost just $180. Most shops are totally out of line with this.
Back in the 70s, i think it was called The Bicycle Corporation of America, was offering to sell franchises for a reasonable fee. They would train you in their business model, bicycle mechanics and supply inventory. It was a whole package.
I bought my first real road bike, a Univega Sportour from Eugene Keifel at Wheatridge Cyclery when it was just a hole in the wall back in about 1980. That thing was like a Porsche after riding a Schwinn Collegiate for years. Bought several more from him and Ron over the years. Got a sweet Klein Atitude there. My wife got her Serotta from Ron as well. Also was around back in the day at Denver Spoke, where I got my dreambike from Dong - a De Rosa '57 Replica with Record in 1996! That was back when you could buy a top of the line Italian lugged steel steed with Record for about $3K. And you could even work on them yourself!!!!!!!!
I had to move to east Tennessee from Western Washington 8 years ago, and had the impression that the Knox area would be a good place for Mtb, and was extremely disappointed when I discovered here to be a severely underwhelming local scene... I've been seeing a lot of news lately about shops back home having to close up, but the shops here in and around Knox seem to be doing pretty well. There are 2 bike shops close to me. One is staffed by snobs that treat customers like they don't know anything,and only sell expensive Treks for rich casual weekend riders who just bike paved trails in the local city park on expensive Trek mountain bike. The other is a shop that sells new and used and is super passionate about unique older bikes, especially mountain bikes, and sell all sorts of bikes to all sorts of customers. It's also the only local shop I know of that sells used.
I have like 8 bikes already . 3 of them modern. The rest retro mtbs from the 90s and retro road. I dont need a new bike. The big Corporations are in a lot of trouble
I lived in a small village in the UK it had a village green which was surrounded by a church, an infant's school, a cobbler, a couple of pubs, a butcher a grocer, a post office and for a small boy the best shop a bike shop - My father actually did one good thing in his sorry life, he gave me 2 shillings and six pence every Saturday to go and pay for my first bike on the never never it cost about 70 GB Pounds -
Agree with much of what you say. At the end the “chewing on the same stick” comment….in our market that means a couple concept corporate stores from two of the big brands that basically run those operations as regional discount stores. They will sell in a weekend what most of the smaller shops here do in a year or part of a year. And just looking at inventory levels of past model year bikes this discounting will continue through ‘25 and maybe ‘26. How those concept store fare coming out the other side remains to be seen, but they are tough to deal with or be in a market with unless one is following some of the advices you put forth here.
After the one that I had used for a decade refused to help me when I rode in with a puncture on an ebike that I didnt buy from them for $5000, I took my business to REI.
They have likely found that “you” will balk at the LEGITIMATE fee for that flat repair. This will create the same whine as just saying no. They are in a lose -lose situation.
My wife and I buy expensive bikes because we bike a lot. Tried to buy local but $500 more per bike is to much to bite on. Too bad, because I would be loyal in all my future purchases. Now I just go to places that specialize in bike repair and appreciate the business.
Really, I'm just not seeing that. So you must be poor. Why are you spending you time watching UA-cam videos if you are poor, you should be out there working a second or third job. Now you know why you are poor, do something about it.
yup, it's income inequality driving the market. It used to be in the 80s and 90s that people who bought more expensive bikes were passionate riders and spent disproportionately of their earnings on bikes because they loved bikes. Now it's more rich people who don't even really ride much spend a huge amount on their toys.
@@matztertaler2777 When you read news of average Joes getting arrested or prison post this. Clearly two sets of laws. There is no justice if it is not equal under the law. ...and Hunter when free.
My local shop is great, an older gentleman and his son run it, they cater to cruisers and MTB, and have never carried any of the big brands, their current lineup is a mix of Q house brands and Kona, their service is slow due to demand but honest and reliable, and I'd be shocked if they carry a bike that costs more than $3k. They're a shop that caters to the average person and it's done very well for them but most importantly, they appreciate every bike that comes through the door and they make sure the customer knows it. Good service and personality, reasonable prices, and attainable bikes for the average person seems like a recipe for success.
That's fantastic! For those who don't know "Q," it's QBP (Quality Bicycle Products) that sells Surly, Salsa, All-City, and maybe Soma as a wholesaler, as well as parts like Shimano and SRAM. Thanks for sharing!
The bicycle industry also used to actively market mainly to families and the middle class. Not only do we have a shrinking middle class, we have companies putting out little to no effort to educate and demonstrate the potential long term value of owning their products for the average consumer.
I couldn't say it better. They don't see the market correction, and it may really cost them their companies. They will be just another name that is bought and sold, like "Schwinn" and many others.
Metro Bike and Sport was our spot in south east Michigan back in the day. They died out just as MTB started producing 26" DJ bikes back in early 2000s, They sold Giant, Dyno, GT, s&m, and many others. sad to see them go.
Our local Giant dealer closed (owner wanted to focus more on his real estate gig, the shop was a side hustle) and the other got bought out by Trek. I was bummed when they closed cause it was literally my neighborhood bike shop I could walk to. The Trek store is ok, but it lacks that camaraderie that a family bike store offers. The staff and managers are a revolving door like Walmart
What happened? Too many focused on the big brand name bikes, instead of offering small name, new to the industry, and cheap Asian brands. If you can't offer variety for every person's money, than you're just a high priced dealer, like Mercedes.
I love cycling but I don't care for the bike shops. People there are burned out and fead up with the biz and some take it out on their customers. They don't seem to appreciate that I buy parts and accessories from them and just keep riding my same old bikes. They figured out I'm not looking for a new bike so I'm taking their time away from the show room. I used to love the bike shops that were staffed by employees. These owner run shops are a drag.
@IKnowAGuyBicycles My experience is different than yours. I come from the perspective of a retail customer. Bike shop proprietors more than likely know your a fellow shop owner and have a Utube channel so you see each other from that perspective.
@@noelbrown6771 Nah, he’s right and you’re wrong. What you experience with the shop(s) you go to are not the experiences of all customers at all shops.
@@noelbrown6771 What weird response. Where did I say I speak for everybody? You are the one who seems to imply your experience represents everyone else from a customer perspective.
Great and interesting discussion. Of course, business just follows what's happening in the economy. If only rich people have money then you are going to see more businesses chase $10k bike sales, just as car companies chase $100k car sales. However, how the "concept store" fits into that, I'm not quite sure. I guess if the goal is to sell $10k bikes then "branding" becomes that much more important, because the people buying a $10k bike want to feel that they have bought something exclusive and special, not something anyone can buy at the local bike shop...
My friend has to close his bike repair garage because electric bicycles and electric scooters are taken over. People don't want the struggle of pedaling
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles Yes indeed. I installed a hoist versus paying $$$$ on repair stand that lifts the bikes. Those things cost big bucks and my hoist and materials only cost me $300ish. And I charge a hoist fee. Adapt and have fun.
LBS have given away customers by allowing crappy mechanics who do poor work to be the face of the business. I have to imagine there are plenty of high end customers who choose convenience and quality over price. For me, its not worth my time to internet shop for deals and doing my own work. I want a shop where I can drop off my bike. “Fix whatever it needs and charge me when I pick it up”. Instead I get shoddy work requiring multiple trips to get right. Hire mechanics who care and are proud of perfection. There are plenty of us who will pay for this.
It's tough to find good mechanics these days; they have to be trained. Unfortunately, the industry has not invested in doing so for about 20 years now. You have old guys like me kicking around, but there is no career path in doing service for the most part. Of course, there are some exceptions, but the erosion of the mom-and-pop shops has destroyed the cultivation of new mechanics. The overcomplicated cycling market, with new tech changing every year, has caused feedback from unskilled services departments. I'm personally trying to find a grassroots solution, but I just haven't landed one, and (I may never will).
My take on all this is that the cost structure of doing anything in the US that doesn't involve payment that is facilitated by either the government, the government subsidized debt markets, or whatever the latest bubble industry is basically damn near difficult if not impossible. It is simply impossible to cover the overhead cost of any sort of retail space, skilled and unskilled employees, and insurances by selling a few reasonably priced bicycles and doing reasonably priced repairs. The US needs staggering amounts of deflation almost as much as it needs reasonably priced and fuel efficient mid sized pickups.....
My current tune-ups start at $100. For spoke replacement, the spoke is around $2-$4 dollars, depending on the type, and labor can be $10-$15 depending on the wheel. There will be an added cost if it's a tubeless setup.
In the 60'S in the UK a bike was for fun and for transport only the rich used a bike for sport - The shop where i got my first bike was more repair and general mechanic than bike sales
My local independent guy who's been doing it for 30 years is busier than ever. I'm pretty sure he turns me away sometimes because he know I'll come back 😜 I am his most difficult customer. Parts are definitely an issue especially on Chinese bikes but he is remained independent stock's limited selection but sells more and his son also owns a separate independent bike shop nearby and they float back and forth to help which everyone's busiest.
I would love to have a small bike shop with a convenient flow of customers. I worked in the mom and pop shops in the early to mid-70s. Those were better times. I know I’ll never have a small bike shop because they just don’t cash flow. I could only do it for the love of cycling.
Concentrate on fixing bikes, get certified with Bosch and Shimano and Mahle. Dont worry too much about fixing motors yet, find someone local enough that offers warranty on repairs and use them.
Great point! That's what I'm doing: fixing what I can and sending out what I can't. My customers really don't have any issues with that. Thanks for sharing.
I like what you're saying. I like my local shops in Tucson. What if they can upgrade a frame for you or something like that without you buying a whole new bike.
In my area retail space is S-L-O-W-L-Y dropping in rent. I'd be surprised if you couldn't get a 900 sq ft place in a prime spot at an affordable rent. I hope someone opens a middle-class bike shop in my area. I know the mechanic at the LBS I bought my Specialized bikes from and his pay is about the same but the shop time has risen over 25% in the last 5 years. We need American made bikes available at mom and pop shops that are affordable. I don't see that happening but there are plenty of great used bikes and UA-cam videos to show me how to repair/adjust them.
I was wondering when the Mom and Pop shop would start specializing in the "higher end" Chinese bikes/brands. Selling and maintaining those along with used seems like a potential winner. Affordable and made in USA just isn't going to go together. The other benefit for the shop is most other shops probably won't work on the bike so the owner has to come back to you for service.
Manchester uk is lucky to have bike shop co-operatives that are staffed by bike riders and selling non big 5 bike brands . Sell parts and do repairs . That’s where I put my dollar when something I need isn’t in my parts box . Re-cycle reuse repair and SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL INDEPENDENTS
Well, when the actual middle-class is almost destroyed, businesses that cater to them will be on the chopping block as well. Why do you think the auto manufacturers raised prices by 40-60% in just 4 years? You either now market to the low-end or the high-end.
I lived all my life in BC and Quebec near or close to tourists traps I rarely experienced "middle class" bike shops but a couple still existed in Vancouver and Montreal from what I know now they're closed or moved their focus to please a more hipstery clientele 😅 Sorry for the edits I'm currently shoveling snow. The stereotypes are real. 😂
In France most bike stores are now corporate franchises like Mondovelo or Veloland. Independant shops are very rare. Same thing seems to be happening to ski shops. Is there anything corporates don't want to rule? Peace!
I just got done with a ride in Sacramento on our bike trail. Probably 70-80% e-bikes. The market has experienced a fundamental shift. E-bikes, especially the fat tired motorcycle type have forever changed the market.
When i ride out to my training grounds i’ll always meet plenty of riders on their race bikes ! E-bikes are usually ridden by the elderly,without helmets(!),while we always wear helmets
If you wanted to write a manual on how to kill your dealers the big bike brands have followed it to a T. Change hub widths, axle sizes, BB standards, headset standards, cassette designs, shifter pull, wheel sizes and every other little thing often enough until a bike mechanic needs $15,000 worth of tools to be able to work on everything. Take basic consumables that were strong and cheap and make them weak and expensive. Whatever was cool before, make it uncool and do the opposite. Then turn every serious rider into a DIYer who orders everything off the internet because local shops have to spend money following the more and more rapid and expensive trends and can't also afford to also stock every other legacy size of tubes, tires, wheels and everything else.
They overpriced what a bike should be worth, now people are even more worried about jobs and the cost of living than they were a few years ago, bikes are not on the list of wants anymore.
Great video 👍👍👍. It was always easier to sell a £250 to £600 bike to somebody who would walk into my shop and want to buy a bike to either commute or to just enjoy riding. The roadies and MTB guys would just talk, talk & talk about buy our bikes from £1000 upwards, and when you got down to payment they would always say only if on 0% finance 😂😂😂. Not even a credit card... Dude you nailed it with this video👌👌
Right!?! It's going to be an interesting couple of years going forward. They say the industry is adjusting; it's more like a full reset. Thank you for sharing!
Until the companies that make bikes, change the model for their business, the small shops will always suffer. Bike companies should have distribution centers, the shops should have demo fleets, and the bike companies should be able to drop ship a bike within three days of a customer decides to buy. Local shop only has to carry the demo fleet, which they can also sale at the season end to recoup some money. They should also be charging for the demo, and putting that back toward the purchase of the bike. They also need to stop dropping new models on UA-cam and then not be able to fill the orders.. End of rant.
Happing now in the UK especially with the E-bikes afew fabulous British companies building and designing them yes the frames are mostly made abroad but high quality at that great customer family service to and they are growing one company called mirider a bus journey away you can visit the factory to
I have ridden bicycle's all my life and owned 2 bicycle's from new .The first was a birthday present when I was five Years old and the latest E-bike I baught recentley at the age of 68 .The bicycles I have owned inbetween those 2 have all cost me less than £30 each most of them for much less and a fair number of them were free . I do all my own maintenance. Since the event of the internet I buy my spares online and before that at my local ''Lower-class '' bicycle shop. I understand that bicycle shops have a buisness to run but I refuse to pay more than the price of a bicycle for a simple service .if any other type of vehicle mechanic charges such prices they would be out of buisness within days .
I respectfully disagree with you, unfortunately. The term “Middle Class” is a misnomer here (and terribly, terribly overused). Poor people AND wealthy people BOTH want and need bicycles (for vastly different purposes, of course). Your use of the term “middle class” seems to be not particularly relevant or important to the story. I value your opinion, nevertheless. Thanks for the detailed video! 😊
What is a middle class bike shop? Who goes into them? If you mean inexpensive bikes (but better than toy-store quality) doesn't everyone already have one (three)? They gobbled 'em up during the pandemic and now they collect dust. Meanwhile the over-production caused by the LBS ordering 1000 bicycles (hoping to get 100) during the pandemic is piling-up. This makes used bikes worthless just a few years after the sky was the limit on their value since the glut of new ones has to be moved at any cost. IMHO the only way to make any PROFIT in the bike biz is to provide something that A) Can't be shoved through a fiber-optic cable or B) Can't be delivered directly to the customer via a brown truck.
I'm not sure what Kool-Aid you're drinking, but the chatter that I've been listening to over the last ear is that the small IBDs are falling apart because of all the electronic components and electric bikes being introduced into the industry. Many of these shops are closing because they don't have the skill set to service these electronic components and ebikes. Also, customers are not willing to pay the much higher prices to have these items serviced. Mechanics that have these skills are also demanding much higher wages.
I apologize, but that includes bike lines/brands, such as Trek, Specialized, Mongoose, GT, and Schwinn, as well as all the stuff that goes with those brands, such as parts, clothing, accessories, and kool-aid.
Local bike shops are going downhill because they're charging $60-70 for a simple brake pad swap. 😂 Ima invest on my stand in tools and the hell with the bike shop for repairs ill read the Park Tools handy book!
They printed too much money...because they had too. That makes everything cost a lot. Technology has advanced to the point where things are amazing, but it costs money...a lot
all my bike are build from used parts , buy frame , buy wheels ,,buy crankset ,buy shifters ,, etc ,,, i try to buy the expensive parts on used market , so i can build a nice bike with 500-600euro ,, with parts that came out of bikes worth 2k-3k , few gen old , all my bikes use 2x8 system ,with road sti shifters , is cheap , good , and dose the job ,, as new bike with 500euro ,, you get only a crapy entry level bike , with 3x7 and sqare tape bb ,,
I always found small bike shops to be very snobby and elitist. Maybe I am wrong- but I was never really respected when I would walk in. Not judging this guy and his shop because I don't know him at all. Maybe he is great. For most, it is easier to shop at a Walmart- some higher priced bikes are nearly as good and much cheaper. Returns, if needed are simple- no questions. If you are middle class and have money, you get better bikes, better service and things like tires fixed, etc. I think these days these shops have to really evolve and adapt- have a strong online presence. I think these shops are squeezed by the manufactures they rep as well. I would worry less about the big companies. They will survive. They will adapt. Worry about yourself. Make your service and offerings strong. Host local meet-ups and events. Get people in your shop each weekend- group rides that start out at your shop, etc. We go to a casino and on the menu (buffet), they have unique events near daily. These are hooks that get people in the door to blow their money on their machines. Giveaways, etc. Also, look at the top five (5) retail bike shops and copy what they do. Worry about YOU- not so much others. Good luck.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles Do you host weekly events out of your parking lot to attract new buyers and incentives for regular run-ups? That is low hanging fruit my man.
@@MOAB-UT I'm not a typical brick-and-mortar bike. I'm a home-based garage shop that does everything by appointment. For regular storefront shops, that's a great opportunity, but there are some costs. First, insurance can be a big hit. Second is staffing and leading those rides. It would be better to rope in a cycling club to do those rides at your store as a support aspect and host charity training rides with how-to clinics. There is a way to do it that has a big supportive impact on your cycling community.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles I did not realize you are home based. That makes sense then and yes, I know about insurance. I wanted to organize some fun trips to my favorite spots out West. Simple things like hiking and maybe riding in the back country. The permits and insurance requirements would have cost more than the money I collected so I did not pursue. Maybe, like with Tupperware, you can have your customers organize events at their homes. Meet ups and you can showcase new gear and gather with manageable groups of ~15 or so. Tupperware did 1.3 billion in 2022 so there are on to something with that at home demo model.
The bike industry is a lesson in marketing. Sponsoring a pro team gives companies more pricing power than you see in any other industry but maybe the pharmaceutical industry. There is no reason for a bike to cost $12000 to $20000 of more than a Ducati motorcycles. Carbon frames are cheaper to manufacture than steel or aluminum, electronic derailleurs are cheaper to manufacture than mechanical and bonded aluminum cranksets are cheaper to manufacture than cold forged. I always get a kick out of these marketing gimmicks. It isn't l Iike wind tunnels didn't exist 100 years ago. Everyone acts like they were invented yesterday. The bike industry differs from other marketing efforts in how few opportunities exists for sponsorship. After all there are only 22 or 24 teams in the tour de France. Ironically crashes in the pro peloton have increased exponentially in the past few years and the UCI doesn't have an answer. I think the pros just don't have the same skill today that they had 20 yrs ago. I think a trade association that wrote down specs for a universal 9,10 or 11 speed group set would successfully counter some of the marketing power of pro sponsorship. For someone like me who doesn't know me if derailleur x is compatible w shifter y I would look for the marketing brand of this trade association. I think a trade association that wrote down bike specs and than market them would carve out a nice market for their members and be more successful than you or I can imagine. It wouldnt take a lot of money.
It is just nuts that the volume of produced bikes and the prices seem to keep going up. 5K and over is ridiculous for 95% of the market or those who ride bikes. This current market turns will have to make them think, or one would think. The answer may be that all of the LBS cut them loose and let them sink from their own actions and pick up smaller supportive bike lines. For me, if I was going to spend 5k on a bike, it would be a custom Black Sheep, Moots, or Parlee, where I can meet the builders and make it special for me. But that's me.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles I know the store manager of a huge Trek store. I'm afraid to ask him how things are going but I get the feeling that all is not well. I heard the owner of two local shops has gotten a job and is closing one of his stores, the far larger, newer one. I'm wondering if the older, smaller shop will have the same fate. I also heard that the owner of the newest local shop is looking for a buyer.
Most of them don't support group rides. I learned to ride from there Sunday rides. You don't need a super high dollar bike. Many riders who are handy go through mail order and those no name Taiwan carbon frames that are made in the same building as the big bike brands. Shops should not only carry 1 or 2 brands!!!! Problem.
No one rides bikes anymore. Its all ebikes now on amazon from china. People just sell it for cheap when they get a flat tire and buy a new 600-800$ ebike
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The key is to be a bicycle mechanic, not a bicycle retailer. Many businesses just want to sell something out of a box, but don't want to roll up their sleeves and make money the hard way but also the best way. However, to truly make a living fixing bicycles we are going to need a societal mindset shift in the way people see bicycles as transportation and not just toys. Maybe a 1970s style oil crisis will be the motivating factor for many to take up bicycling again.
Valid points, thanks for sharing.
yea in the USA the bicycle is viewed as a toy, that why so many of these DTC ebikes are doing well, even though they are very poorly made.
@@Adventures4vida Here in Vegas, a bicyclist is viewed as a plus points moving target. No kidding. We've had crazies deliberately running cyclist over. I still pedal, just on vacant roads or trail. Major roads are not wise to travel by bike or foot. I keep praying to God Almighty for $15/gal gas.
💯✌️😎
In my area, alot of the bike shops expanded into clothing/running/lifestyle. They cut way back on middle/low end bikes and shoved used out to the parking lot or just stopped that end of the biz. The most annoying part was some refusing to repair bike brands they didn't sell and getting snarky if you didn't buy the bike from them.
Wow! Those shops are losing out. I embrace working on all brands of bikes, etc. However, when folks bring in a bike for a repair and bring in their own parts, I gladly upcharge 20% on my labor fee.
Yeah, I think the big key thing to focus on now for bike shops, especially small to mid sized shops is SERVICE. Good service and FRIENDLY service. I think you nailed it.
Absolutely! And it should have been always that way. Thanks for watching.
Funny how that comment focused on friendly service. For years if you went into the mom and pop bike store in town you got waited on by the owner's wife. She was condescending & really had a way of rubbing customers wrong, it was so much better talking to one of the employees who was either a Mechanic or a bike racer.
Excellent review of the current affair of the bicycle business. It irritates me that the LBS that were responsible for the for success of the big bike brands turned around and screwed the very shops that made them big.
I so agree, and I do hold back on making that video, because I will just go OFF! (loose my SH!T OFF)
Dude that is some terrible English. Who screwed who ? I assume the big brands screwed the Local Bike Shops.
Middle class bikeshops need middle class consumers. The problem for the retail sector is income inequality, with very high value customers, and lots of paycheque to paycheque consumers with less and less income left at the end of the month. The middle is getting destroyed.
Same all over the world, small business people soon to retire or want to cannot because the public is not educated on how to buy an existing business that is making money. Codie Sanchez has written a book on exactly this issue. She is a former Wallstreet exec for Vanguard and has been practicing what she teaches. Media company is Contrarian.
So. Don't be that pay check to pay check person. Get a job making LOTS OF MONEY and get out of the "middle class".
And people who aren't broke realise they have enough 'stuff' already and that includes bicycles.
🫢🤔😑I appreciate the insight, I support my adrenaline junkie existence by ; ' word of mouth spread' bike delivery stuff-- interval/ sprint WORK, also do ' observational safety\ security work' do lap\ cadence work around warehouse/ industrial area.
I think cities and states could help revive the middle-class bike shop by improving their bike infrastructure so that it actually goes places that average people need to go. I think that it would make commuting by bicycle practical, which would drive demand when compared to the high costs of commuting by car. Where i live in Virginia, they built a protected bike route that connects Richmond to Williamsburg. Ive seen a few bike shops open up along the route, and it looks like theyre doing well for themselves.
Thanks for the insight, and the example!
PLEASE, "" run for any office""--- when properly done, ' rail to trail' program is what My AMERICA is all about.
We have a local Trek store. The prices are insane. Some bikes were literally $10k. Really, really nice but $10k! I also HATE carbon fiber for many reasons. Too delicate and can fail randomly, like that Submarine. Hard to fix if you drop it.
I think that $10k is insane for a bike as well. Carbon fiber isn't for everyone. Thanks for sharing.
" I grew up with a middle class bike shop." - Some politician
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It's been fascinating viewing the carnage in the industry. We are finishing up a record year at our shop. We focus on used bikes for everyday people, and I believe it has struck a chord.
My LBS is a small shop, and very close. At first the shop offered service, and carried a small amount of used inventory. In the past couple years they have jumped on the e-bike bandwagon. These aren't the big names either. My hope is that they will continue to adapt and thrive. It's such a great shop because the guys are chill, up front of costs, and do good work.
Thanks for sharing!
Have to say my local guy did the smart thing, went niche, used bikes and repairs. Thanks for the video dude.
The market has been heading that way for the last 15 years. This has fast-forwarded the big brand issues, and they may not recover or at least be as strong in their markets. The shops that have chimed in having great years have been the used bike market and service shops. It's good for them to see and react.
It’s all about e bikes, people just are not buying analog bikes anymore. I just bought a $2000 Wired Freedom which is a 26x4 full suspension fat tire with a 60v (2100 wh battery) system that produces 3200 watts peak, accelerates like a car, and can easily keep up with traffic with a 40mph top speed. I own eight analog bikes and never ride them anymore. A powerful fat tire e bike is so much more fun and infinitely more comfortable to ride and offers more utility than any analog bike. If you are not selling and servicing e bikes, you will not be in business for long.
Why not just admit that you're riding a motorbike? That thing isn't even comparable or in the same category. Plus, it would be illegal in most countries in the world unless it could pass the motorbike requirements. I service actual e-bikes all the time; I would turn away your motorbike.
What happened? The Internet. I walked into my local shop to price a small seat bag-pouch. $50 bucks is what they wanted. I got a ROCK BROS one on EBAY for $15 bucks. The prices that bicycle shops charge for ANYTHING hanging on a rack is outrageous.
ebay turned me off out with cheap knock offs. I bought a set of avid bb7 mech brakes and they were garbage. Right now internet retailers have some major discounts.
Before that, Performance Bike was the mail-order competition that all bike shops couldn't compete with.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles - I’m an online customer of Performance and even used to shop at its stores in Chapel Hill, NC and Newark, DE back in the 2000s. But I started buying mail order from Nashbar in the 1980s when they would regularly mail their catalogs, printed on newspaper-type paper, from their HQ in Ohio to your home. Performance improved the mail order experience with its color catalogs, but it was Nashbar that started the market IMHO.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles Don't forget Nashbar as well.
During the 80's I worked in a, "mom and pop," bicycle shop as a mechanic in a mostly working class neighborhood. The shop did well, but, if the owners hadn't done repairs, the shop would never have survived on bicycle sales alone. I remember hearing that some shops would only perform repairs on bicycles they sold, but the shop I worked in would repair any bicycle that could be repaired. That worked out well for them because most people who lived in the area couldn't afford the bicycles in the shop, or they didn't want to spend that much money on a, "toy." Most people in the area purchased their bicycles at department stores or Target (Walmart had not yet arrived in the area). After listening to the video it amazes me how many shops limited and probably still limit who they did or do repairs for, and possibly the types of repairs. I understand why an internet based business cannot do repairs, but I cannot imagine a bicycle shop turning down the opportunity to make money on repairs. Well - now that I think about it, I guess it does eliminate some headaches to be selective. There was always the hassle of having to call a customer and tell them that I found an additional thing wrong with the bicycle I was repairing and then telling them what the added cost was. Those calls were most interesting when I would get accused of saying something needed repaired when it didn't, or getting accused of damaging a bicycle, so the shop could make more money. I never did anything like that, and, as far as I know, nobody else who worked there did that, so it was always an annoying shock. There were also the people who wanted something repaired, but didn't want to pay the cost to repair it, so they would try to talk the shop down on the price. They seemed to like to do it after they had been quoted the price, they acknowledged that they knew what the cost would be, the repair was done, the parts were installed and the labor had been spent. There were other issues too, and I won't write a novel about that, but I guess I can see why shops might not want to do repairs, if they don't have to.
It sounds like your shop did things the right way. Thanks for sharing your story.
I worked at a high volume shop in the 00s. I loved watching the owner tell the Trek rep "no" to his demands that we carry exclusively Trek.
I wish we had said NO more often when we had our shop. We were one of many shops they used up and stepped on to build up their brand.
Same here - countless times the Big-T sales rep would tell us Bully-Boy Burke was gonna open another dealer right down the street if we didn't do X or Y. The owner would tell 'em to pound sand since he was a dealer BEFORE he carried their bikes and would continue to be one if they took 'em out or (stupidly) set up a competing store down the street. They backed-down every time!
What happened? GREEDINESS is what happened.
I went to the local Incycle this weekend to browse any deals they had and get a crank set inspected. I asked the rep if they sold a lot of bikes on Black Friday and he said they sold 2 bikes and it was a pretty good sales day for them.
People are not dumb, those bikes have been on sale for over a year now. If you have 5-10k to blow on a bike, you already have. Thanks for sharing.
What happened? (1) Wal Mart (2) the Internet (3) bike brands becoming corporations maximizing profit with out regard -
Walmart sells crap. I doubt Wally World is affecting the sales of better quality products.
My local one died out a few years ago. They used to have a basement full of used bikes and sold hundreds per year. They no longer care about your average persone, only about the commission they get for selling $3k bikes to doctors and lawyers (the only people in my small city that can reasonably afford it) I went in recently to get the crank on my **$50 Schwinn Al Comp** replaced, dude INSTANTLY says "oh don't even waste your money" and proceeds to wheel over a gen 3 Marlin 5. 🤦♂️
Their Kool-Aid is to upsell only. The "Let's Fix It Shops" have disappeared, and corporations just want to push new products. Thanks for sharing!
Hopefully things improve with shops. Around me it just seems there are what I call boutique shops. If you want to spend $8k, $10k, $12k on a bike and thousands more on kit and accessories, they are perfect ... but this is just a small percent of riders. A great thing about cycling is that it does not * need * to be very expensive or complicated. I have enjoyed fairly modern carbon bikes, but also get great enjoyment from an old steel bike that cost just $180. Most shops are totally out of line with this.
I agree; cycling doesn’t need to be expensive.
Back in the 70s, i think it was called The Bicycle Corporation of America, was offering to sell franchises for a reasonable fee. They would train you in their business model, bicycle mechanics and supply inventory. It was a whole package.
Bay area bike rider here, I only use Mom and Pop shops, Better customer experience.
Thanks for supporting your local shop!
I bought my first real road bike, a Univega Sportour from Eugene Keifel at Wheatridge Cyclery when it was just a hole in the wall back in about 1980. That thing was like a Porsche after riding a Schwinn Collegiate for years. Bought several more from him and Ron over the years. Got a sweet Klein Atitude there. My wife got her Serotta from Ron as well. Also was around back in the day at Denver Spoke, where I got my dreambike from Dong - a De Rosa '57 Replica with Record in 1996! That was back when you could buy a top of the line Italian lugged steel steed with Record for about $3K. And you could even work on them yourself!!!!!!!!
$3,000 1996 USD would be worth $6,000 USD today. You could get a pretty amazing bike today for that price especially if you go to Canyon.
Nice! Thanks for sharing!
Can you do a video on the costs associated with operating a bike repair shop out of your garage?
I will be scripting one here soon. Hope to release it in Jan. 2025 Thanks for watching.
if you could include a “what to stock/keep on hand” and how you figured it all out. I saw in this video you had several SRAM chains on the counter.
I had to move to east Tennessee from Western Washington 8 years ago, and had the impression that the Knox area would be a good place for Mtb, and was extremely disappointed when I discovered here to be a severely underwhelming local scene...
I've been seeing a lot of news lately about shops back home having to close up, but the shops here in and around Knox seem to be doing pretty well.
There are 2 bike shops close to me. One is staffed by snobs that treat customers like they don't know anything,and only sell expensive Treks for rich casual weekend riders who just bike paved trails in the local city park on expensive Trek mountain bike.
The other is a shop that sells new and used and is super passionate about unique older bikes, especially mountain bikes, and sell all sorts of bikes to all sorts of customers. It's also the only local shop I know of that sells used.
its all big showrooms and 3-10 mechanics here in bike shops larger than a grocery store.
I have like 8 bikes already . 3 of them modern. The rest retro mtbs from the 90s and retro road. I dont need a new bike. The big Corporations are in a lot of trouble
I lived in a small village in the UK it had a village green which was surrounded by a church, an infant's school, a cobbler, a couple of pubs, a butcher a grocer, a post office and for a small boy the best shop a bike shop - My father actually did one good thing in his sorry life, he gave me 2 shillings and six pence every Saturday to go and pay for my first bike on the never never it cost about 70 GB Pounds -
Agree with much of what you say. At the end the “chewing on the same stick” comment….in our market that means a couple concept corporate stores from two of the big brands that basically run those operations as regional discount stores. They will sell in a weekend what most of the smaller shops here do in a year or part of a year. And just looking at inventory levels of past model year bikes this discounting will continue through ‘25 and maybe ‘26. How those concept store fare coming out the other side remains to be seen, but they are tough to deal with or be in a market with unless one is following some of the advices you put forth here.
It will be interesting to see how those stores last, the discounts are brutal, and the public has a short memory. Thanks for sharing.
After the one that I had used for a decade refused to help me when I rode in with a puncture on an ebike that I didnt buy from them for $5000, I took my business to REI.
That's a bummer, thanks for sharing.
They have likely found that “you” will balk at the LEGITIMATE fee for that flat repair. This will create the same whine as just saying no.
They are in a lose -lose situation.
My wife and I buy expensive bikes because we bike a lot. Tried to buy local but $500 more per bike is to much to bite on. Too bad, because I would be loyal in all my future purchases. Now I just go to places that specialize in bike repair and appreciate the business.
The middle class is gone now......................
Really, I'm just not seeing that. So you must be poor. Why are you spending you time watching UA-cam videos if you are poor, you should be out there working a second or third job. Now you know why you are poor, do something about it.
yup, it's income inequality driving the market. It used to be in the 80s and 90s that people who bought more expensive bikes were passionate riders and spent disproportionately of their earnings on bikes because they loved bikes. Now it's more rich people who don't even really ride much spend a huge amount on their toys.
Good news though- Hunter was just fully pardoned.
@@MOAB-UT😂😂
@@matztertaler2777 When you read news of average Joes getting arrested or prison post this. Clearly two sets of laws. There is no justice if it is not equal under the law.
...and Hunter when free.
My local shop is great, an older gentleman and his son run it, they cater to cruisers and MTB, and have never carried any of the big brands, their current lineup is a mix of Q house brands and Kona, their service is slow due to demand but honest and reliable, and I'd be shocked if they carry a bike that costs more than $3k. They're a shop that caters to the average person and it's done very well for them but most importantly, they appreciate every bike that comes through the door and they make sure the customer knows it. Good service and personality, reasonable prices, and attainable bikes for the average person seems like a recipe for success.
That's fantastic! For those who don't know "Q," it's QBP (Quality Bicycle Products) that sells Surly, Salsa, All-City, and maybe Soma as a wholesaler, as well as parts like Shimano and SRAM. Thanks for sharing!
Solid video
The bicycle industry also used to actively market mainly to families and the middle class. Not only do we have a shrinking middle class, we have companies putting out little to no effort to educate and demonstrate the potential long term value of owning their products for the average consumer.
I couldn't say it better. They don't see the market correction, and it may really cost them their companies. They will be just another name that is bought and sold, like "Schwinn" and many others.
Metro Bike and Sport was our spot in south east Michigan back in the day. They died out just as MTB started producing 26" DJ bikes back in early 2000s, They sold Giant, Dyno, GT, s&m, and many others. sad to see them go.
My parents shop, we carried GT, Dyno. Thanks for sharing.
Our local Giant dealer closed (owner wanted to focus more on his real estate gig, the shop was a side hustle) and the other got bought out by Trek. I was bummed when they closed cause it was literally my neighborhood bike shop I could walk to. The Trek store is ok, but it lacks that camaraderie that a family bike store offers. The staff and managers are a revolving door like Walmart
Thanks for sharing.
What happened? Too many focused on the big brand name bikes, instead of offering small name, new to the industry, and cheap Asian brands. If you can't offer variety for every person's money, than you're just a high priced dealer, like Mercedes.
I love cycling but I don't care for the bike shops. People there are burned out and fead up with the biz and some take it out on their customers. They don't seem to appreciate that I buy parts and accessories from them and just keep riding my same old bikes. They figured out I'm not looking for a new bike so I'm taking their time away from the show room. I used to love the bike shops that were staffed by employees. These owner run shops are a drag.
Not all shops are like this, but there are some. (But not for long.) Thanks for sharing.
@IKnowAGuyBicycles My experience is different than yours. I come from the perspective of a retail customer. Bike shop proprietors more than likely know your a fellow shop owner and have a Utube channel so you see each other from that perspective.
@@noelbrown6771 Nah, he’s right and you’re wrong. What you experience with the shop(s) you go to are not the experiences of all customers at all shops.
@@cycologist7069 You.dont speak for everybody. Speak for yourself- Mr. Cycologist
@@noelbrown6771 What weird response. Where did I say I speak for everybody? You are the one who seems to imply your experience represents everyone else from a customer perspective.
Great and interesting discussion. Of course, business just follows what's happening in the economy. If only rich people have money then you are going to see more businesses chase $10k bike sales, just as car companies chase $100k car sales. However, how the "concept store" fits into that, I'm not quite sure. I guess if the goal is to sell $10k bikes then "branding" becomes that much more important, because the people buying a $10k bike want to feel that they have bought something exclusive and special, not something anyone can buy at the local bike shop...
My friend has to close his bike repair garage because electric bicycles and electric scooters are taken over. People don't want the struggle of pedaling
Sorry to hear that; some will have to adapt to working on ebikes going forward. Training, Parts Cost, and Insurance.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles Yes indeed. I installed a hoist versus paying $$$$ on repair stand that lifts the bikes. Those things cost big bucks and my hoist and materials only cost me $300ish. And I charge a hoist fee. Adapt and have fun.
LBS have given away customers by allowing crappy mechanics who do poor work to be the face of the business.
I have to imagine there are plenty of high end customers who choose convenience and quality over price.
For me, its not worth my time to internet shop for deals and doing my own work.
I want a shop where I can drop off my bike. “Fix whatever it needs and charge me when I pick it up”.
Instead I get shoddy work requiring multiple trips to get right.
Hire mechanics who care and are proud of perfection. There are plenty of us who will pay for this.
It's tough to find good mechanics these days; they have to be trained. Unfortunately, the industry has not invested in doing so for about 20 years now. You have old guys like me kicking around, but there is no career path in doing service for the most part. Of course, there are some exceptions, but the erosion of the mom-and-pop shops has destroyed the cultivation of new mechanics. The overcomplicated cycling market, with new tech changing every year, has caused feedback from unskilled services departments. I'm personally trying to find a grassroots solution, but I just haven't landed one, and (I may never will).
My take on all this is that the cost structure of doing anything in the US that doesn't involve payment that is facilitated by either the government, the government subsidized debt markets, or whatever the latest bubble industry is basically damn near difficult if not impossible. It is simply impossible to cover the overhead cost of any sort of retail space, skilled and unskilled employees, and insurances by selling a few reasonably priced bicycles and doing reasonably priced repairs. The US needs staggering amounts of deflation almost as much as it needs reasonably priced and fuel efficient mid sized pickups.....
Sadly, most bike shops you grew up with are mostly closed down or out of business. the bike rack in college town Ithaca closed for business in 2020.
The industry is going through a shift, and many shops, big and small, are struggling.
I was curious, how much do you charge or should it cost to replace one spoke and a quick true up, 700c wheel.
My current tune-ups start at $100. For spoke replacement, the spoke is around $2-$4 dollars, depending on the type, and labor can be $10-$15 depending on the wheel. There will be an added cost if it's a tubeless setup.
Walmart is middle class bike shop.
Many of the "middle class" bike shops in my area were also small engine shops.
With Internet you can do it yourself from YT. Cheaper online too.
I wouldn't trust any of my local bike shops to work on my bikes.
In the 60'S in the UK a bike was for fun and for transport only the rich used a bike for sport - The shop where i got my first bike was more repair and general mechanic than bike sales
My local independent guy who's been doing it for 30 years is busier than ever. I'm pretty sure he turns me away sometimes because he know I'll come back 😜 I am his most difficult customer. Parts are definitely an issue especially on Chinese bikes but he is remained independent stock's limited selection but sells more and his son also owns a separate independent bike shop nearby and they float back and forth to help which everyone's busiest.
I would love to have a small bike shop with a convenient flow of customers. I worked in the mom and pop shops in the early to mid-70s. Those were better times. I know I’ll never have a small bike shop because they just don’t cash flow. I could only do it for the love of cycling.
I'm in that boat. Thanks for sharing!
Concentrate on fixing bikes, get certified with Bosch and Shimano and Mahle.
Dont worry too much about fixing motors yet, find someone local enough that offers warranty on repairs and use them.
Great point! That's what I'm doing: fixing what I can and sending out what I can't. My customers really don't have any issues with that. Thanks for sharing.
I like what you're saying. I like my local shops in Tucson. What if they can upgrade a frame for you or something like that without you buying a whole new bike.
Nice!
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles Yea, I purchase used parts on pink bike and have them install the upgrades. Upgraded bb/crank, fork , front brake, etc.
My favorite bike shop is 100 miles away . We'll worth it for the excellent service and prices !
After work the robots don’t ride bikes or consume anything. The customers are now obsolete. The future is Automation.
Interesting point.
In my area retail space is S-L-O-W-L-Y dropping in rent. I'd be surprised if you couldn't get a 900 sq ft place in a prime spot at an affordable rent. I hope someone opens a middle-class bike shop in my area. I know the mechanic at the LBS I bought my Specialized bikes from and his pay is about the same but the shop time has risen over 25% in the last 5 years. We need American made bikes available at mom and pop shops that are affordable. I don't see that happening but there are plenty of great used bikes and UA-cam videos to show me how to repair/adjust them.
I was wondering when the Mom and Pop shop would start specializing in the "higher end" Chinese bikes/brands. Selling and maintaining those along with used seems like a potential winner. Affordable and made in USA just isn't going to go together. The other benefit for the shop is most other shops probably won't work on the bike so the owner has to come back to you for service.
"callapse" in the graphic at 5:55. OOPS!
Got me. lol
Manchester uk is lucky to have bike shop co-operatives that are staffed by bike riders and selling non big 5 bike brands . Sell parts and do repairs . That’s where I put my dollar when something I need isn’t in my parts box . Re-cycle reuse repair and SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL INDEPENDENTS
We have several CO-OPs here, and they service their communities well. Thanks for sharing!
Well, when the actual middle-class is almost destroyed, businesses that cater to them will be on the chopping block as well. Why do you think the auto manufacturers raised prices by 40-60% in just 4 years? You either now market to the low-end or the high-end.
Great point, thanks for sharing.
I lived all my life in BC and Quebec near or close to tourists traps I rarely experienced "middle class" bike shops but a couple still existed in Vancouver and Montreal from what I know now they're closed or moved their focus to please a more hipstery clientele 😅
Sorry for the edits I'm currently shoveling snow. The stereotypes are real. 😂
Bassi bikes look awesome.
Next time I am in Montreal I will have to check them out
My wife hates winter, that's why we have a place in Las Vegas.
I wanted to get a dropper seat post on a Rockhopper elite. Bike shop estimated about $500-$600
Good dropper posts are not cheap and sometimes not easy to install.
nice video thx
Thanks for watching
My LBS mainly caters to docs & dentists. direct to consumer has killed all other markets.
Seems to be a factor.
In France most bike stores are now corporate franchises like Mondovelo or Veloland. Independant shops are very rare.
Same thing seems to be happening to ski shops.
Is there anything corporates don't want to rule?
Peace!
Right!?!?
It was Walmart monguse shwine g,t they sell used to have their own shops 😢 bike shops were like a wonder land
No one is pedaling these days, If you're not pumping out cheap eBikes, you're just losing business.
I just got done with a ride in Sacramento on our bike trail. Probably 70-80% e-bikes. The market has experienced a fundamental shift. E-bikes, especially the fat tired motorcycle type have forever changed the market.
When i ride out to my training grounds i’ll always meet plenty of riders on their race bikes !
E-bikes are usually ridden by the elderly,without helmets(!),while we always wear helmets
eBike sales will slow down here soon as well, but there will be a lot of service work to be done on them.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles Cant fix most of them without standards.
100% false
another banger
this current state of the retail bike sector, such as it is, seems to be your bailiwick
I've seen parts of it before, but not all at once, and there are some new twists to add. It's just nuts!
If you wanted to write a manual on how to kill your dealers the big bike brands have followed it to a T. Change hub widths, axle sizes, BB standards, headset standards, cassette designs, shifter pull, wheel sizes and every other little thing often enough until a bike mechanic needs $15,000 worth of tools to be able to work on everything. Take basic consumables that were strong and cheap and make them weak and expensive. Whatever was cool before, make it uncool and do the opposite. Then turn every serious rider into a DIYer who orders everything off the internet because local shops have to spend money following the more and more rapid and expensive trends and can't also afford to also stock every other legacy size of tubes, tires, wheels and everything else.
I agree, it's gotten out of hand.
our local shop HARDINS BIKES has awsome collection of new used ad "recycled" bikes and parts. wont go anywhere else
That's great to hear about a local shop doing well!
They overpriced what a bike should be worth, now people are even more worried about jobs and the cost of living than they were a few years ago, bikes are not on the list of wants anymore.
Great video 👍👍👍. It was always easier to sell a £250 to £600 bike to somebody who would walk into my shop and want to buy a bike to either commute or to just enjoy riding. The roadies and MTB guys would just talk, talk & talk about buy our bikes from £1000 upwards, and when you got down to payment they would always say only if on 0% finance 😂😂😂. Not even a credit card... Dude you nailed it with this video👌👌
Right!?! It's going to be an interesting couple of years going forward. They say the industry is adjusting; it's more like a full reset. Thank you for sharing!
Until the companies that make bikes, change the model for their business, the small shops will always suffer.
Bike companies should have distribution centers, the shops should have demo fleets, and the bike companies should be able to drop ship a bike within three days of a customer decides to buy.
Local shop only has to carry the demo fleet, which they can also sale at the season end to recoup some money.
They should also be charging for the demo, and putting that back toward the purchase of the bike.
They also need to stop dropping new models on UA-cam and then not be able to fill the orders..
End of rant.
It’s a rant that I agree with.
what's a 'callapse?'
Got me. Lol
Happing now in the UK especially with the E-bikes afew fabulous British companies building and designing them yes the frames are mostly made abroad but high quality at that great customer family service to and they are growing one company called mirider a bus journey away you can visit the factory to
That is a pretty yellow Trek getting a rebuild. ❤
IT turned out beautifully. Thanks for watching!
I have ridden bicycle's all my life and owned 2 bicycle's from new .The first was a birthday present when I was five Years old and the latest E-bike I baught recentley at the age of 68 .The bicycles I have owned inbetween those 2 have all cost me less than £30 each most of them for much less and a fair number of them were free . I do all my own maintenance. Since the event of the internet I buy my spares online and before that at my local ''Lower-class '' bicycle shop. I understand that bicycle shops have a buisness to run but I refuse to pay more than the price of a bicycle for a simple service .if any other type of vehicle mechanic charges such prices they would be out of buisness within days .
Valid points, if shops can lower the running cost they may be able to provide high level service with less cost for their customers.
I respectfully disagree with you, unfortunately.
The term “Middle Class” is a misnomer here (and terribly, terribly overused).
Poor people AND wealthy people BOTH want and need bicycles (for vastly different purposes, of course). Your use of the term “middle class” seems to be not particularly relevant or important to the story.
I value your opinion, nevertheless. Thanks for the detailed video! 😊
Fair enough. How about Mom and Pop stores?
What is a middle class bike shop? Who goes into them? If you mean inexpensive bikes (but better than toy-store quality) doesn't everyone already have one (three)? They gobbled 'em up during the pandemic and now they collect dust. Meanwhile the over-production caused by the LBS ordering 1000 bicycles (hoping to get 100) during the pandemic is piling-up. This makes used bikes worthless just a few years after the sky was the limit on their value since the glut of new ones has to be moved at any cost.
IMHO the only way to make any PROFIT in the bike biz is to provide something that A) Can't be shoved through a fiber-optic cable or B) Can't be delivered directly to the customer via a brown truck.
I'm not sure what Kool-Aid you're drinking, but the chatter that I've been listening to over the last ear is that the small IBDs are falling apart because of all the electronic components and electric bikes being introduced into the industry. Many of these shops are closing because they don't have the skill set to service these electronic components and ebikes. Also, customers are not willing to pay the much higher prices to have these items serviced. Mechanics that have these skills are also demanding much higher wages.
First sentence: False. Second sentence: False. Third sentence: False. Fourth sentence: True.
I'm not sure in your market, but in most, that isn't the case, except the skills need to be matched with proper wages.
Trek got rid of the 520. They have no adventure bikes anymore. Kind of sucks.
They have alloy or carbon ones if you want to buy them. But good luck working on them.
Kind advice: I detected quite a bit of professional jargon that escaped me. For instance: what is a “line”? (They picked a particular line)…
I apologize, but that includes bike lines/brands, such as Trek, Specialized, Mongoose, GT, and Schwinn, as well as all the stuff that goes with those brands, such as parts, clothing, accessories, and kool-aid.
@ got it. A brand, or a manufacturer.
@ usually a brand, sometimes they are both
@ something I observe around me (san francisco Bay Area): some shop specialize in mountain bikes others in road. Both high performance.
You're talking about creating dealerships, And they talked everyone into it
Local bike shops are going downhill because they're charging $60-70 for a simple brake pad swap. 😂 Ima invest on my stand in tools and the hell with the bike shop for repairs ill read the Park Tools handy book!
They printed too much money...because they had too. That makes everything cost a lot. Technology has advanced to the point where things are amazing, but it costs money...a lot
all my bike are build from used parts , buy frame , buy wheels ,,buy crankset ,buy shifters ,, etc ,,, i try to buy the expensive parts on used market , so i can build a nice bike with 500-600euro ,, with parts that came out of bikes worth 2k-3k , few gen old , all my bikes use 2x8 system ,with road sti shifters , is cheap , good , and dose the job ,, as new bike with 500euro ,, you get only a crapy entry level bike , with 3x7 and sqare tape bb ,,
There is so much opportunity to buy and fix used bikes. They just need to fit and function safely.
We call them mom & pop bike shops in Florida
AMERICA'S last real Hope ( if) anyone 《 truly 》 wants to make this country great again.
I always found small bike shops to be very snobby and elitist. Maybe I am wrong- but I was never really respected when I would walk in. Not judging this guy and his shop because I don't know him at all. Maybe he is great.
For most, it is easier to shop at a Walmart- some higher priced bikes are nearly as good and much cheaper. Returns, if needed are simple- no questions.
If you are middle class and have money, you get better bikes, better service and things like tires fixed, etc. I think these days these shops have to really evolve and adapt- have a strong online presence. I think these shops are squeezed by the manufactures they rep as well.
I would worry less about the big companies. They will survive. They will adapt. Worry about yourself. Make your service and offerings strong. Host local meet-ups and events. Get people in your shop each weekend- group rides that start out at your shop, etc. We go to a casino and on the menu (buffet), they have unique events near daily. These are hooks that get people in the door to blow their money on their machines. Giveaways, etc. Also, look at the top five (5) retail bike shops and copy what they do. Worry about YOU- not so much others.
Good luck.
Thanks for sharing and watching. Doing everything I can and more.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles Do you host weekly events out of your parking lot to attract new buyers and incentives for regular run-ups? That is low hanging fruit my man.
@@MOAB-UT I'm not a typical brick-and-mortar bike. I'm a home-based garage shop that does everything by appointment. For regular storefront shops, that's a great opportunity, but there are some costs. First, insurance can be a big hit. Second is staffing and leading those rides. It would be better to rope in a cycling club to do those rides at your store as a support aspect and host charity training rides with how-to clinics. There is a way to do it that has a big supportive impact on your cycling community.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles I did not realize you are home based. That makes sense then and yes, I know about insurance. I wanted to organize some fun trips to my favorite spots out West. Simple things like hiking and maybe riding in the back country. The permits and insurance requirements would have cost more than the money I collected so I did not pursue.
Maybe, like with Tupperware, you can have your customers organize events at their homes. Meet ups and you can showcase new gear and gather with manageable groups of ~15 or so. Tupperware did 1.3 billion in 2022 so there are on to something with that at home demo model.
Shout out to the independent bike shop. It's cold so I stuck the bike in the trainer.
Thanks for the support!
The new bike shops seem a little posh for my liking
They can be.
I like my old gary fisher mountain bike.
the internet happened
The bike shop has a voice which consumers hear, the voice hasn't been nice to the big 5 lately.
I think the current state of the state does give the local bike shops more power, but we will see if the Big 5 changes their ways.
The bike industry is a lesson in marketing. Sponsoring a pro team gives companies more pricing power than you see in any other industry but maybe the pharmaceutical industry. There is no reason for a bike to cost $12000 to $20000 of more than a Ducati motorcycles. Carbon frames are cheaper to manufacture than steel or aluminum, electronic derailleurs are cheaper to manufacture than mechanical and bonded aluminum cranksets are cheaper to manufacture than cold forged. I always get a kick out of these marketing gimmicks. It isn't l Iike wind tunnels didn't exist 100 years ago. Everyone acts like they were invented yesterday. The bike industry differs from other marketing efforts in how few opportunities exists for sponsorship. After all there are only 22 or 24 teams in the tour de France. Ironically crashes in the pro peloton have increased exponentially in the past few years and the UCI doesn't have an answer. I think the pros just don't have the same skill today that they had 20 yrs ago.
I think a trade association that wrote down specs for a universal 9,10 or 11 speed group set would successfully counter some of the marketing power of pro sponsorship. For someone like me who doesn't know me if derailleur x is compatible w shifter y I would look for the marketing brand of this trade association. I think a trade association that wrote down bike specs and than market them would carve out a nice market for their members and be more successful than you or I can imagine. It wouldnt take a lot of money.
It is just nuts that the volume of produced bikes and the prices seem to keep going up. 5K and over is ridiculous for 95% of the market or those who ride bikes. This current market turns will have to make them think, or one would think. The answer may be that all of the LBS cut them loose and let them sink from their own actions and pick up smaller supportive bike lines. For me, if I was going to spend 5k on a bike, it would be a custom Black Sheep, Moots, or Parlee, where I can meet the builders and make it special for me. But that's me.
Maybe call it MicroShift?
Marketing matters
Bike shops have become a bad idea.
Trek and Specialized-owned shops are giving them headaches. They thought they were experts in reality; they had no clue. The struggle is real.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles I know the store manager of a huge Trek store. I'm afraid to ask him how things are going but I get the feeling that all is not well. I heard the owner of two local shops has gotten a job and is closing one of his stores, the far larger, newer one. I'm wondering if the older, smaller shop will have the same fate. I also heard that the owner of the newest local shop is looking for a buyer.
Most of them don't support group rides. I learned to ride from there Sunday rides. You don't need a super high dollar bike. Many riders who are handy go through mail order and those no name Taiwan carbon frames that are made in the same building as the big bike brands. Shops should not only carry 1 or 2 brands!!!! Problem.
No one rides bikes anymore. Its all ebikes now on amazon from china. People just sell it for cheap when they get a flat tire and buy a new 600-800$ ebike
Not around me, but I can see your point.
Collapse? Or Callapse???
Got me. lol
Is there still a middle class?
Yes... in China & India 🤣