How to Recognize a Great Anime (in just one episode) [Part 2]
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2024
- Part 1 here: • How to Recognize a Gre...
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Here's the thing with arguing on whether to pick up a series based on a first episode. If a show fails to deliver something interesting in the first episode, then the pilot failed its job. Episode 1 needs to do one thing and one thing only...
...to get you wanting to watch Episode 2.
Precisely!
When I first watched Lucky Star, I was immediately hooked in those first 8 minutes. Just the weirdness of characters talking for 8 minutes about how to eat food was so strange that I felt an immediate need to keep watching. By the end, I was a fan, and when I finally picked up the DVD set years later, I marathoned it as soon as I was home.
Same, same
weird how we need multiple episodes to learn how to recognize a good anime in 1 episode
TheDavoo way to kill a joke. well done
No series has more than one first episode.
@@RisenSlash Bud you missed the point.
@@TakuCityPop And you missed his point
Never forget The Endless Eight, and Those Who Survived.
[tears]
i binged it and i wanted to drink bleach or vodka which ever hurts less
Ah, but some people consider Endless Eight as one of the greatest character development (or understanding) which has been done in anime. But personally, I wish I didn't have to watch that for one whole month on TV.
Arsel Crusader 2 months is more like it since its one episode a week
I binged it too but in 2x speed XXD
TheSuperpsycho666 We got finished shows here in those days, so they show 2 episodes per week.
I forgot just how Clannad the Haruhi faces were
it's been a while
I can't be the only one who hates that style of character animation
Like it's legitimately hard for me to watch lol
Haruhi certainly looked better than Clannad in my opinion.
Since when do people like that style
I think you mean character designs. But yeah, they seem pretty Clannad-esque with a little of Fullmetal Panic on them. Season 2 started looking more like K-on with Haruhi's face looking notably more like Yui's.
Hey, we're 4 year buddies!
I've only watched Haruhi, but if you intend on doing so, watch the first season, skip the first half of the second season, and watch the movie.
Endless 8 is h8 b8 m8
I'm very simple man, I see Haruhi Suzumiya, I smash that like button
But anyway; great video and analysis
I think, aside from being my first ever slice-of-life, moe type anime, what I love the most about Lucky Star is the fact that it starts as if it were in the middle of a running season. I love that there's no inner monologue from a character describing another person, there's no lengthy exposition to get us, the viewers, to understand why we should like this character.
It just starts with 10 full minutes of how the girls eat food, and I instantly felt immersed into the group as well as loving each character from the get go. I probably haven't seen that many slice-of-life animes, so maybe there are others that start with no introduction either, but I just love that we're just dropped into it.
i find it funny as i always vowed lucky star as one of the best first episodes ever BECAUSE it throws you in without any introduction as one of the most "wtf" discussions that could happen in a classroom
i totally felt like the "exchange student" thats gonna have to deal with these people for a year and theyre the ones that pulled me to their table
i found it brilliant and its still one of my favorite and most suggested slice of life/comedy animes out there, the other one being azumanga daioh
Valrath823 i think the overall series gets better, but the first is more memorable for me. Its just that first brick wall you slaam into, and like most slapstick, its hilarious
That and the volleyball scene in azumanga between chyio and osaka
One of the biggest problems with people in this comment section is that they don't know the difference between "I don't like it because it's not my kind of show" and when something is "bad". Saying that you don't like slice of anime doesn't make Lucky Star bad. It simply means that the show isn't for you. The same could be said for Haruhi. While for me personally it transcends the fact that I don't like high school anime (I can probably count on one hand the amount of anime that base a majority of their time within a school that I've finished), if you have nothing but contempt for that kind of show, then OF COURSE it's not for your taste. Your taste has nothing to do with whether or not the show is made of good quality for the people who do like that show.
Also, people in this comment section have no idea what "moe" means and seem to use it for every high school anime they watch. Haruhi, regardless of whether you like or don't like the show, is not moe.
its a bad show, JoJo's have scenes with people talking about food and custims and shit and they are really entertained to watch and fun without resorting to drawing cute dumb faces, there is some wit in the writting.
While Lucky Star seems to be focused on their shitty ''waifu'' fanservice
+TOKAGERO1 JoJo is all about dumb faces, poses, stills, plots, powers...
you could have phrased that better, or picked a better example
??? You could describe any show by equating it to a bunch of general nouns. If you were trying to make a point, you did a bad job at it.
***** Everything I say is pointless.
***** But anyway, my point is that Jojo is dumb, and I love it.
Lucky Star is still my go-to anime to bench watch
If I were to use this comment section to barter with when salt was a currency, I would be awfully rich.
Salt was never really that common as a currency though. The Roman salarium was money paid to the troops to buy salt with. Salt is very difficult to transport compared to silver.
Alright
The first episode of Azumanga Daioh I think was a better version of Lucky Star's first episode because it grabbed your attention with its humor and the characters weren't just standing around talking.
azumanga daioh is one of the few slice of life that are actually good ,had a great conclusion, and characters with actual personalities and not just some cute waifus.
lucky star k-on and hidamari sketch are the complete opposite
i reccomend you nichijou its like a more "crazier" version of azumanga daioh
and high school cromartie
+ironmaster64 Hey fuck you hidamari sketch is good
+Jepze It was meh tbh fam. I dropped it first episode which is basically what digi was taking about in his series here lol
Azumanga is one of the best slice of life anime to exist so far.
+uncensored008 thats a fact
How to Recognize a Great Anime in just one episode (but only if you've already seen the whole series)
Gregory Gibson
Really? Because for me it seems as if those "aha I understand it now" moments are the most important things for digi.
@HettGutt and that is precisely why Haruhi should not be viewed in Broadcast but only Chronological order.
I swear, it's like peeps who swear by the Monogatari broadcast order... In the former case, it was a gimmick to mantain interest, not based on the novels. In the latter, it was literally just production problems
Baccano is literally one of my favorite animes. I had almost no idea what was happening during the first half of the first viewing, since it was so complicated and kept jumping back and forth between stories, but the rewatch was the best
I see a lot of people complain about the fact that in these 2 episodes digi defended very specific 1' episode from series that he really like.
I think those people are right.
The best way to explain the problem is comparing these 2 videos with the "asterix war sucks" series:
in that series he talked a lot about the problem of asterix BUT he used those problem to talk about the problems of the entire genre (and A-1 picture) like the cliche, the male character and bad world creation.
IN this series Digi focus a lot (really a lot) on very specific anime with controversial 1' episode, he didn't talk about a good show with a good 1' episode that everyone loves.
If i have to say what i learned from these 2 episodes is "Digi really like criptic 1' episode that are easier to understand once you have watched all the episodes" which goes against the logic of "recognize greatness from 1 episode".
I won't say that he is wrong, there are show that are great in the first episode and you feel "this will be great" but there are A LOT of show that start great and go down.
I get that this is not a discussion about how important is the ending in a show (that should be another video) but i still think this was not the best way to explain how 1 episode is enough, the message is more something like "if you see a weird 1' episode continue watching the series so everything will make sense".
Well, yeah that's the entire point. If he went with a show everyone loves that'd be like beating a dead horse because everyone would know why the first episode was that good anyway. He's just taking more controversial episodes because they're better for overall discussion.
tcrpgfan But the point should be about "you can see a great show from the first episode" and he didn't talk about good show that have weak 1' episode.
And the fun thing is that he admitted that there are show like that (Gintama for example) but he spent only 5 seconds on that and continued with other episodes that he consider good.
***** Doesn't he also say that while examples are there, that they are not that many.... at least from his experience, and that he knows if he'll like a show or not just on the first episode alone?
I remain unconvinced honestly
Same
same its pretty dumb to assume that all the great animes have great first episodes
The people good enough to make a good story aren't so unskilled in their craft that they'd make a bad first episode.
Kira Reilly
But it's not impossible or even rare that a show with a definitely bad first episode can't produce a great show
The Hunter x Hunter 2011 Dickriding Association If you say so, my experience though is that people who are good at what they do are good from start to finish.
I think some of the frustration being expressed in this and the previous episode's comment section stems from the gap between what we expect from the title of this series, and the actual content of the episodes. I am very much enjoying Digibro's discussion of various animes and how their opening episodes relate to the series as wholes, but when I clicked this video, I thought he would be giving us a toolkit with which we could (attempt to) judge the quality of animes based only on a viewing of their first episodes, and thereby speed up our selection process.
I like this series, regardless of my feelings about the various animes being discussed, but the title feels a bit misleading.
He seems to be leaning more towards the idea of why these were 1st great episodes for the the on anime instead of identifying a good anime in one episode based on several criteria. I remember him making a video. They were 6 points on what he wants to see in a romance series. He went through each of them, explained them, and then gave examples on what he was talking about exactly in different anime series centered around romance. This is what I expected from this series, but apparently not. Even in the one where it talks about how to spot a bad anime in one episode, he uses examples specific to the one anime being mentioned.
If I had to pick out one anime with an incredible first episode, it would have to be the original Fullmetal Alchemist. You get a great introduction into Ed and Al's central brother relationship, a feel for the show's varying tones (fit with humor, action, contemplation, and outright fear), and a great introduction to some of the show's central themes (religion, the boundaries of science, how to move on from the past). It was truly excellent, and perfect for the series.
I tried getting through Lucky Star episode 1 three times and never made it through lol
Try harder
I tried once, and ended up failing and watching the opening 3 times.
The first few episodes are just flat out boring and I BARELY got through them, but then I actually enjoyed the rest of the series once they canned the first director
Yea I heard later it gets much better lol. Maybe I'll try again some day.
Don't it doesn't change and is trash watch Azumanga Daioh it's lucky star if it wasn't pandering garbage and actually cared about being clever and having good characters
Maybe the reason you've never seen a good show with a bad first episode is *because* you drop everything after the first episode?
...............
Idk it could be the reason......?
Quite the catch 22 you've got there.
Personally I'd agree. The idea that every bad first episode gets a bad series can only work as an argument if you've experienced it yourself over and over again. Just hearing people say that a series is bad and using it to confirm your diagnosis is completely irrelevant since everyone's opinion could be drastically different. I've seen shows with awful ratings and reviews that I decided to watch anyway, and have been pleasantly surprised about 40% of the time. Maybe it's because I make it a point to finish what I start, instead of halfassing it, that I've come to appreciate judging from the whole rather than less than 10% (or less than 5% for 20+ long anime)
+TryBane The judgement in your comment is thick enough to cut.
And again, Digi did not say that.
+TryBane Also as you may have noticed, he goes against the consensus plenty. He's not using the consensus to prove these shows are good, he's talking about shows he likes, so far.
movelea but unfortunately you can't use a show you like that the other person doesn't, to convince them of a different method of determining if something is good or not. You'd just solidify the idea that his method doesn't work for you. And if he wasn't trying to convince others, then why did he make the videos?
On a side not, why are we in a different comment thread now? And in regards to your comment about my judgment being thick enough to cut, unfortunately our comments have become so entangled I'm not sure which comment I made that you are referring to.
Daily reminder that there is a scene in Lucky Star where they discuss their periods.
Prohibition-era Chicago* You know... where all the mobsters in the '20s were.
Huh. All this time I've thought it was New York for some reason.
+Digibro It is
It's both.
All the prohibition/mafia stuff happens in Chicago, the Flying Pussyfoot goes Chicago -> NYC, the reunion happens in Grand Central Station
+Eruditious Most of the series takes place in New York, though u are right about the train heading over from Chicago. But the story with Szilard, as well as the Gandor v Runarota family takes place in New York.
*Watches vid*
*Learns everything about haruhi and gets everything about stein's gate spoiled*
*Is still confused how to know if an anime is good by one episode*
Not to say you or Digibro did a bad job or to tell you two how to do yours (you're doing an amazing job btw), but I think part of the issue that hasn't been explicitly stated may be some differences in how people process media in general.
In short, Digibro is very analytical. He is able to discern and vocalize meta aspects from watching one episode that many others only tangentially recognize after three or more episodes. Just taking a look at his next video, it's readily apparent he's pulling apart things ( scene transitions, "Show, Don't Tell" violations, characterization and world building, etc) that I passively consumed at the time. I'm still trying to figure out if he does that while he's watching or if he does this afterwards. I'm also pretty sure a large portion of what he considers important details or good implementations thereof were lost on some viewers.
What I'm trying to say is that for Digibro and his analytic ilk one episode is enough to see a bad show coming a mile away. For the average person, that isn't enough. The three episode rule, unintentionally, allows them kill two birds with one stone: consuming the media and passively picking up on it's quality.
+vidmuncher and this video is digi explaining how you can be as analytical as him in one episode. I don't see the issue.
He isn't explaining it so much as he's *demonstrating* it. That isn't wrong. It just isn't in line with the what the video purports to be. "How to do X in Y circumstances" implies somewhat detail explanation of the process. "X can be done in Y circumstances" implies demonstration, generally by providing evidence.
+vidmuncher No, by demonstrating it he is explaining it. It sounds like the issue is that and many others expected a different format. This format does what the title says, despite what you say.
You're not totally off kilter there. Some degree of explanation can be distiled from demonstration. If his stance is that "Good animes tend to have good first episodes", he then has to give some evidence to support that by providing some animes that he thinks are both good and have good first episodes and explain why he thinks they're good - which he does. But there was something that was bothering me when I watched this a few weeks ago.
"What are those explicit guidelines by which I should judge future first episodes for greatness?"
I can't say I feel like I got that. Funnily enough, I don't think I CAN get that. Not from Digibro, anyway. That's not a dig against him as I don't think I should have to look to him for that. As I said on my blog, if we want to be able to separate the chaff from the wheat, we're going to have to do the sometimes unfun work of staunch analysis. We're going to have to tear apart our favorite animes to see what elements of them are worth looking for in future works and we're going to have to tear into our present ones to see if they're delivering.
"You may understand this specific part of the episode if you rewatch it after watching the whole series"
You've defeated the purpose of your own series of videos.
Let's get some things straight guys. This is just *ONE* perspective Digibro is presenting. Whether you believe his perspective, the "Three-Episode Rule" or finishing an anime from start to finish, all of these methods are just theories on figuring out if there is a minimum episode requirement to figure out if a show is *worth* watching at all.
I honestly disagree with this method but I can see its' potential for some more genre-savvy viewers.
Just use the method that works best for you.
This time it isn't a Steins;Gate Episode 1 review, and thankfully so. A Part 2 was very much needed to expand on your point.
Good video Digibro.
I liked the Steins;Gate ep 1 review, but I agree that going into that much detail with another show probably wouldn't have been very effective
So good series have good first episodes, therefore if the first episode is good then the series is good. If I followed this advice I never would have finished Berserk which is my favorite manga.
no, the first good episode doesn't make the whole show good. If you watched the first part, Digi says that while a good series might have a bad pilot episode, the series will never be one of the most memorable animes made as the first episode is the first impression of the series. If a good pilot but bad series overall, it will just be ok.
What he is actually proclaims is "bad first episode implies bad show".
He didn't say a first episode means a good series. He said a bad series can have a good first episode. He also said that most shows that get called that get good later actually were good the entire Tim like how a lot of people couldn't get into STEINS GATE. He did say a bad one is an almost perfect sign of a bad series. Considering he watched and liked Beserk he probably thought the first episode was actually a fairly good first episode.
Correllation=/=causation. Good shows have good openings, bad shows can have bad or good openings.
You probably just didn't see some things that were interesting in the first episode.
I was actually hooked on Lucky Star from the very first episode, as I related so much to the chocolate cornet scene. Every interaction and line in that scene is almost EXACTLY what I say to my friends when we're all together, so I just felt like I was hanging out with my best friends immediately. I had no clue it was so divisive in the community xD. I also highly appreciated the show immediately for having the guts to have an 8 minute scene of PURELY talking about an insignificant food.
The first episode of Kabaneri of the Iron Fortress and Zankyou no Terror were great, but the rest of these shows went on to be complete trash. Your 'technique' just doesn't apply everywhere.
Well as I said in part 1, lots of shows go downhill. It's just that shows that start bad never get great.
dunno if Zankyou no Terror became trash, it certainly gets worse but I'd never venture into calling it bad, just kinda simplistic and basic by the end.
Jeremy Wolfers When a show sets itself up to be something meaningful and artistic with great animation and story, the downfall is long and painful.
Maybe it wasn't complete trash, but it was the biggest dissapointment to in recent years.
Kabaneri was trash from the beginning. Fun trash, but trash nonetheless.
dontscrewtheworld It had interesting world, character and setting concepts with stellar animation and music. The setup was awesome, the execution failed in my opinion.
Why do you think it was trash since the beginning?
i watched the first episode of lucky star and kept asking "when are they gonna stop talking about food?" but after the episode was over i thought "i wonder what they would have said about hotdogs, tacos, doughnuts, etc?" i found that talking about food developed the characters so well that i thought of them as almost real, while not seeming forced. that's good writing.
I get the feeling most the people disagreeing with this video have not been in anime for very long, and/or only stick to the top rated shows and haven't spent much time trolling the endless trash anime that comes out every season. Once you've been into anime a few years and have watched a bit of everything, yes you can tell whether a show is good or bad within the first episode, hell usually within the first five minutes. Are there exceptions? Sure, and I always keep an ear to the ground for shows I initially dismissed improving, but they're rare. 99 times out of 100 you can tell.
You are absolutely right. I feel like these people have never watched some of the worst shows this industry has to offer. Everyone knows about OreImo and have different opinions on it, but that's just the most popular one, had they sit through other terrible stuff like it that lacks their one fetish trait they would know that all of them are trash. Plenty of people only stick to whatever is trending and never bother to search deeper, yet they feel like they know every single in and out of this industry.
"Lucky star is a cross between an adaption of a 4-koma manga and a free form radio program." Extremely salient point. Thanks digi.
oh my God I need to watch Lucky Star again
I don't see why this youtube channel isn't more popular. Love this in depth analysis.
Ponytail best Haruhi
The genius of Haruhi is the deep, moving slice-of-life story coming and staying in the foreground, not because of but despite the "ironies." The system of "meta" references is like the colorful but absurd chatter of high school students through which profound and urgent existential situations insist on appearing.
This comment section. I've seen more positive energy from a graveyard. At least there are flowers.
I only recently watched Lucky Star for the first time, but it's absolutely one of the best shows I've ever seen. I think it's been long enough that the world definitely needs another Lucky Star.
When you said eating was your favorite pastime I realized why I have different taste in anime to you
Lol, no I was trying to say that I wouldn't consider eating a pastime to be proud of because it is a pointless and often counter productive way of getting your brain to release dopamine. In my mind it is similar to saying 'drinking (alcohol) is my favorite pastime' or 'smoking is my favorite pastime'. Someone who's favorite pastime is pointless must be pleased by simple, noncreative things and have a very different view on what things are entertaining...
That might be the most elitist thing I've ever read in my life lol
+Digibro Ok my comment was badly worded and exaggurated. I dont mean people shouldnt enjoy eating or drink alcahol, just that they shouldnt really be the most important things to you. The fact that you said food was your favorite pastime just surprised me
My friend and I were so shocked with the first episode of Harumi, we rewatched it again. We then both concluded that we loved it and rewatched the funny scene of the machine gun backlash.
Poor titling. This series is not "how to recognize a great anime by its first episode", it's "Digi defends a few specific first episodes that other people tended not to like". That has fuck all to do with the title of these videos. It's fine to hear WHY you liked these first episodes when other people didn't, but it doesn't actually explain HOW a person is supposed to be able to judge an anime by its first episode alone.
Did you watch the first part??
RainSnowHail Yep, I did. Hence my complaint.
Indeed. I expected some tips/advice for what to look for when watching a first episode, but instead I just got analyses of very specific good shows. If he wanted this to be the title of the video, he should've summarized his findings after each episode he analyzed - eg "from Haruhi, we can see X" . Instead he just talked about some general themes repetitively. I get the message he was going for, I just wish he had said it himself.
Fair point. Though I think the first episode fit the title better.
Digi has explained this before. It's a title that will get people's attention, even if it isn't a perfect fit for what he is talking about. The purpose of a title in UA-cam is to intrigue potential viewers rather than accurately proclaim what the video is talking about. He spends the first minute or so in the first video explaining what these videos are about, so anyone who is paying attention to his actual points is probably aware of what the video is about since people tend to not skip the first minute of a video just because.
This video has given me a brand new appreciation for first episodes I had never had before for many of my favorite anime. I would like to thank you for this amazing analysis of first episodes that do not, at least at first glance, seem to be all that interesting or maybe very confusing for viewers but in reality prepare the world you are jumping into. Thank you for your video Digibro and I hope to see more soon.
Your perspective seems to focus on style more than substance when you evaluate a first episode, which is where I think some people might not relate. I've heard so many people complain about Durarara because "nothing happens" for the first few episodes, in much the same way that people complain about Steins;Gate for not being interesting until later in the plot. I think that if you view these things with an eye for style and an appreciation for buildup/development, the times in each of these shows that the plot seems to not be progressing as much are just as good at representing the mood of the entire anime as the most intense moments. The problem is, a lot of people don't pay that close of attention to things like that, they are just interested in where the plot is going and how quickly it can get there. I think that's the reason why a lot of people say to watch 3 episodes first, because normally if you don't pay attention to the style of an anime, you'll at least get an idea for exactly where the plot is going by then, or maybe if you haven't evaluated for yourself if this is something you will or will not like by the first episode, you'll notice within 3 episodes if you have or haven't been enjoying yourself so far. I can personally agree with you and not feel guilty for dropping a mediocre anime after one episode, but for some of my friends that may not view it the same way as me, I'll still probably recommend that they give it a few episodes because to them it might seem to change in quality by then.
No matter want the anime is, the first episode of an anime will always be "bad" in some people's eyes as they haven't learnt the characters personalities and motives yet.
but is the first episode of your favorite anime trash
heh
hey ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
lol
+ADS Lasting hey ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Nah
+ShyCobra hey ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
So to tell if an anime is going to be good by its first episode, you have to be steeply immersed and familiar with anime...
...How does this help a newcomer like me?
It doesn't, digi is simply just showing of how good he is at analysis obviously he cannot really seem to be able to point out a concrete way to recognize a great anime in one episode for the average joe, because its just not going to happen is it? This is why the 3 episode rule is common.
Digi, I understand that you are an american. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, SAY YOUR FRENCH WORDS RIGHT.
C'EST RAISON D'ÊTRE, pas "reason de tear, I can't speak French for shit".
PUTAINS, C'EST EMBÊTANT!
His pronunciation is fucking garbage with anything he says, even some English words.
Digi has made it pretty public he doesn't give a fuck about pronunciation lol.
I looked up the pronunciation for the video, and I tried saying it the right way, and I couldn't physically say it, so I said fuck it I don't care.
*****
ray-zone-deh-tre
You know that IPA would solve all your problems, right?
The IPA for Raison D'Ê;tre is ʁɛzɔ̃ dɛːtʁ̥ or ˌɹeɪzɒ̃ ˈdɛtɹə.
Just been reminded tenfold that Episode 1 of Lucky Star is easily, EASILY my favourite first episode of anime. For new viewers, I'd honestly recommend the show in English if you wanna see people really breathe life into their roles.
Dubs do tend to help comedy.
But i cant stand dubs and english isnt my first languege in first place
If a dub were available in your native language, it'd help the comedy. Drama can be communicated well enough with text, but it's hard to not lose the timing while you're watching something on the screen while reading beneath.
+DarthBobCat But i dont have problem with that. I grew up with subtitles really any show really. i can see both at same time and not miss anything
I loved the series but I absolutely hated the first episode.
Highschool DxD is best anime.
I really like the first Lucky Star episodes. They are such a hillarious slap in the viewers face. "If you have no life and rather watch random people livings theirs, here you go. And since they're school girls, there might be some humor^^"
But it seems many ppl didn't get that part or simply can't handle missing character introduction unless a show is labeled as "nonsense-comedy". Or maybe they just confuse a "slice of life comedy" with "generic harem-romcom with stupid protag, 20 minutes of info-dumping in the first episode and forced drama whenever unfitting".
Why does nowadays even a comedy anime have to be dumbed down to be understood and taken for what it is?
Makes me lose faith in humanity .... and want to re-watch Lucky star.
ALL HAIL KONATA !
There's a flaw in your argument: You're positing that Lucky Star is a great show.
Opinions on the internet are not objective fact.
It is :P
it is generally considered to be so by those who like the genre. Even if it isn't that's not actually a flaw in the argument. The argument is that a great show never has a truly awful first episode. Bad shows can have great first episodes, but not the other way around.
Consensus disagrees with you. This is fine, and you are entitled to your own stance; you just aren't allowed to be dismissive of evidence which is readily available.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks like this!
5:30 I haven't seen Haruhi yet, but are those Pheonix Wright references?
yep
Yes. Yes they are.
I love Lucky Star and still do
same here, I even got the profile picture to prove it.
Lucky Star was the first slice-of-life... anything I'd ever watched. I never understood the controversy over the first episode. It was pretty much what I was expecting from the get-go. I had a decent enough understanding of what slice-of-life was, and just stuck around for the ride, interested to see how it was all going to play out. The only thing that ever confused me, watching it at the time, was the joke about Konata referring to Kagami as "Kagami-Sama" in one scene. I started wondering what this dynamic was about them adding stuff like "chan" at the end of each other's names, tried a little googling, and found out about Japanese honorifics.
Starting out with characters we haven't really met yet suddenly analyzing and deconstructing the various ways to eat a chocolate cornet was a fantastic way to start, and I don't think I'd change that. It's quite a bit like what you were discussing about Steins;Gate's first episode with that toy-dispensing machine. Starting with something simple and normal, and then watching characters tackle its existence from radically different angles. That's a great way to kick off a series, in my opinion.
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya has a lot of layers. So, it's an onion.
The release order of the light novel was actually the same as the broadcasted anime. The short stories were released in a collection after the climax, but written and released originally in magazines before this.
True True. Haruhi and Lucky Star are still quite boring though, I think.
Would you explain how?
+Yami Ai
Yea, but the movie was so awesome though.
+Joseph Finfrock
After I watched the series, I thought "meh"
It was fun but was overrated imo. Just thought it was lacking in a lot of different departments. I can look back and see that it is kind of a commentary on anime and so forth but all in all, after I finished the series, I just thought "meh."
Two words: ENDLESS EIGHT!
+Joseph Finfrock .It's a matter of preference. I tend to dislike anime and manga tropes. So seeing someone make fun of them doesn't amuse me much, for example. Also, if a show centres itself around such culture, the it will inevitably fall into the clichés in the end anyway, even if it is making fun of them. Most of the interactions will be based around tropes, so someone who doesn't like seeing the tropes, even if they are made fun of, probably won't enjoy the story. This is especially true for the slice of life elements, where characters simply hang around. I also don't particularly enjoy their personalities, but that is mostly because of the aforementioned backdrop which I don't think serves them well as far as my preference is concerned. Oh, and yeah, Endless Eight was bloody boring. Doesn't matter what point it serves in the narrative, (it does serve one yes) I still don't find it enjoyable. For the most part, the series is simply a referential comedy, which I've never enjoyed much in the past. I prefer more serious storytelling with rich settings and developed mysteries, etc... Take Serial Experiments Lain for instance.
That's only one arc of the second season and most people say you should watch no more than the first episode the episode where nagato explains the loop and the last episode to make it less grueling
As a small aside, I just want to say thank you for turning me onto MrBtongue's channel. He has some really great vids that are right up my alley, especially on game design and narrative construction. I always appreciate it when UA-camrs give their peers shout-outs, especially when they generate such good content.
Digibro, you are making the obvious mistake of reasoning backwards in time and ignoring the experience learned in the interval as important. You cannot justify the opening of Haruhi with episode 00 in any way. That episode makes NO sense on it's own. Does not fit into the story anywhere (even less than the short stories) and if you newer watch it, you will NOT MISS ANYTHING. Granted this can be said about 5 of the Endless Eight episodes, but that's for a different reason.
Starting Haruhi with Adventures of Mikuru Asahina only leaves the audience confused in the "WTF did I just watch" sense. Episode 01 on the other hand (while being a conventional first episode) has enough material to introduce the world and most of the characters and ends reasonably well to make you want more (or at least keep you interested).
"After rewatching the first episode (...) I immediately found myself wanting to marathon the series all over again" Is the most accurate way I've seen someone describe my own love for Lucky Star. You Sir, deserve a cookie.
The one thing this video really illustrates is how even this whole deal of "how to recognize a great anime in one episode" just won't work for most people. The fact of the matter is that whether or not a series is bad is extremely subjective. The same goes for whether or not the first episode of a great series is bad. Haruhi's first episode is generally considered rather abysmal as a first ep because it plays out like a mess that is only really comprehensible as the series goes on. Hell, a lot of the arguments given here for why it was actually good where made in hindsight, the only notable exceptions being production value and "uniqueness", both of which have shown time and again to not be the most reliable signals used to identify neither a good nor a bad overall product.
The problem I have with this kind of videos, however is how they are presented as THE way to identify good shows from the get go, which it just isn't. The fact that it clings to the idea that a good show isn't preceded by a bad first episode when Digi's opinion is so obviously different from the general consensus on many things only makes this more jarring. The reason why I find it so is probably because it heavily reminds me of clickbait articles that establish an extremely variable and subjective premise.
Think of an article titled "How to know if your new boyfriend is your ideal man (in just one night)!", which then goes on to say that if he carries you to your bed every third hour and has toned abs, then that's it; he's ideal.
last time I was this early Britain was still in the EU
So wait, is it ironic that it took you two episodes to describe how to recognise a great anime in one episode?
I just can't agree with the jumbling of light novels argument. The story was originally built in a certain way, just let it have arcs. It feels a little arbitrary to say that everything HAS to go for exactly a full season. I'm not bothered at all by having arcs less than a season long. With Haruhi, taking away the context for later episodes is just annoying. The only place where I might agree is that the final episode adapting the first Haruhi light novel can be pushed ahead, but even then, only to a degree.
"Reason da terr?" Are you trying to say raison d'etre?
I think what your argument boils down is: analyze what you watch instead of just judging superficially. Which... tbh, not a lot of people on the nerd and otaku community always do. I think that the geek community has began to be more analytical of what we watch thanks to the crossing that is happening between these communities and the cinephile community. That community is in a way a bit older and has had more time to develop thesis for the narrative and the aesthetic of it's medium, so it turns into a positive influence now that more cinephiles are getting invested in nerd culture that reaches the silver screen. That's what I really like about your channel, you analyze otaku medium the same way a cinephile analyzes an Orson Welles movie and that results in very interesting conversations, even if I (or your followers) don't always agree with you.
I saw from your vlogs that the next video is going to be analyzing first episodes of anime that were mediocre or downright bad. I can think of very few people who were praising these first episodes, however. Are you going to get into anime that had legitimately very strong opening episodes but ended up terrible by the end? Is there a way to recognize warnings of something like that happening down the line?
I enjoyed this video. I was a bit more skeptical from the first video which focused mainly on Steins;Gate, but I found this particular installment to resonate with me a bit more, probably because you brought up and expounded on a group of different anime that I find to be very good, but had very controversial and polarizing first episodes which is the point of the video. I can't wait to see what part 3 has to offer and how you are going to critique Joker Game.
Extremely long-winded explanation that drifts off into you dumping more unrelated information into this.
I could've as well just watch 03:00-05:00 and then skip to 17:46.
But I think I still got your point without getting lost in babbling. xD And allthough I think I got your point, I dropped all three examples you showed off after like 2-3 episodes. So how does it help me recognizing a great anime if it's just a matter of taste in the end?
That's probably only a good trait for yourself as a reviewer but not really important for me as a casual viewer.
Gregory Gibson
Thanks for your reply! I guess it's nice that he makes this kind of effort, but I got completely lost in his explanation. xD
And like I said, I totally got the point of his video.
Finally, someone who understands the point of what's actually in the video. It's not about showing what's good and what's bad objectively, it's how to recognize key elements of an anime in the first episode and considering how they will affect your viewing experience along the way.
I was new to fansubbed anime way back in 2007. I started catching up to the Japanese in Naruto episodes, and afterwards I watched The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya because literally everyone was raving about it. After being confused by the first aired episode of Haruhi, I decided to switch over to the chronological order, but I still loved it. It became my favorite anime because it was different and more interesting than the shounen stuff I was watching on Toonami. Shortly after I finished Haruhi, Lucky Star started airing. What perfect timing. With all that Haruhi hype going into the show, I was easily hooked. I didn't care that the food discussion wasn't particularly entertaining because this show had the cutest character designs I had ever seen at that point as well as the best OP I had ever seen at that point.
Being young and really new to the types of anime that never aired on American TV, I was really impressed by just about everything those two shows threw at me. Never once considered that what Kyoto Animation was really aiming for in those shows' first episodes. Perhaps when I was 13 - 14 years old, I wasn't simply someone who was easy to impress. These shows really earned their impressiveness from the beginning. Thanks for the vid, Digi!
I spotted a yuuker Nicijou fan
Haruhi is better watched in chronological order if you want something resembling a coherent narrative. I don't think you build more "emotional" bonds with the characters just because they shifted a key climax episode toward the end. After all, when there's no logical chronology, the climax doesn't work emotionally because the events leading up to said climax were from a MUCH earlier episode. Whole thing was a forced gimmick.
man, digi. I normally like your work but this, I just couldn't get past the 5 minute mark.
because I seriously need to watch this show. It looks amazing.
The video was interesting, but still judging a show based on the first episode is totally stupid. I mean sure you can judge the show for being something you may or may not like, but when it comes to whether the show is gonna be great or not, you may guess based on your experience but that's about it, you'll end up misjudging a few shows eventually.
What does a show being successful have to do with anything?
LuffyTDS Sigh, If you're trying to start an argument about how a show being "great" doesn't mean it's "successful", just pretend I wrote "great" instead.
Diablo Mask I was not trying to start an argument, I was just legitimately confused by what you meant.
LuffyTDS Sorry for the confusion, I'll edit the comment, and sorry for if my reply was mean, I kinda had a bad day.
+Diablo Mask He isn't judging a show based on its first episode, his point is a good show's strong points are usually already illustrated in its first episode, therefore the idea of "a bad first episode that got good later" isn't true.
I won't lie, as much as I enjoyed the rest of the video that little shout-out to MrBTongue was a highlight for me.
I say it's all a matter of opinion
Absolutely love these videos! By the way, when is the next Digi Bro's let's play?
I honestly gave up in the middle of Lucky Star's first episode. The main character was looking up to be a one-trick pony, with her only joke being "she's an otaku but is good at everything", which I can't say I like, since it seemed like pandering. Not to mention, the food scene was incredibly boring. Someone please tell me it gets better.
+Excecior If ya say so. I honestly don't get what Digi sees in it. If anything, my biggest problem's that it's too damn slow... if that makes sense.
It was only that first scene where they were talking about how to eat various sorts of food. I actually believe they made it pretty boring on purpose lol, kinda like a rite of passage before getting to the actual show XD
If the end of the episode doesn't entice you with the Lucky Channel segment (which are the fucking best) then I guess you can skip the anime :P
+Reydriel Iiiif ya say so, but I dunno what making it boring would do other than make me bored X3
Its a boring anime, only people would like it if you like cute cartoon girls talk about food and study for school. The Lucky Channel segment however were really funny
+Mr Spiffy You mean, it's like that troughout?
As an Anime novice at the age of 21 I'm glad you are making this series. It is helpful in digging through the pile.
... Here's the thing. The majority of your argument is based on hindsight knowledge after seeing the entirety of the anime and going BACK to the first part. You talk about qualities you recognize later on into the series which help to act as plot devices, this being especially true for your last video. The problem with this is that these are elements you normally wouldn't recognize immediately unless you've already WATCHED three or four episodes overall.
I'm not saying that your belief is wrong (I don't have an opinion either way as I mostly watch through or read through anything I'm recommended) but rather the way you're structuring your argument is wrong.
Your argument should look at the episode as a stand alone piece first and foremost without prior knowledge yet you seem to spend the majority of the time arguing on how the first episode's qualities are related to later elements which you would miss entirely if you had chosen not to watch the series (Aka, elements which should be completely removed from this argument as we're recognizing it on a dry run through having just seen the first episode).
THE MOE GENRE SUCKS, STOP IT
I'd like to get this out of the way first
Moe isn't a genre.
Mootisma OMG
Your Waifu sucks
Your face sucks. :P
***** ok
Just a Quick question: i heard that the original Novel for baccano was written by the same guy who did durarara(also the same directors):are they similar? i love baccano but have never seen durarara
watch it is really good and are kinda similar ( in the sense than both have a really large cast of characters) also isaac and miria made a cameo in one episode
ironmaster64 school is really biting my ass rn,when i get some time i'll defs watch it
Durarara is a good bit more convoluted than Baccano, but is just as enjoyable in my opinion. The characters are quirky and eccentric, plus there's Shizuo Heiwajima who might just be one of the biggest badasses ever.
If you can handle Baccano with more SoL elements a little less murder elements, and an equal amount of "holy shit, what?", then you'll like it.
Personally while I like both Baccanno is better.
Baccano or Durarara, you're still going to have a tough ass time remembering everyone's name 😕 I still recommended Durarara though
you make some valid points but im sorry lucky star is NOT A GREAT SHOW ( I dont thinks is even good )
I mean theres nothing wrong if you liked it but dont go there proclaming that is a great show or deep and phylosophycal ( like k-on) when is not
for example I love shaman king but I dont LIE to people telling them that is the best shonen of all time , is deep and mature or that it has a great message behind it ( wich it doesn't ) I just say "yeah is a good show is very entertaining, you should watch it"
since when does a great show have to be deep and philosophical?
+Uri Patootie since never , I was referring to the fact that most people (like digi bro) tends to say that a show they like, k on for example is deep and mature and if you dont like it you dont got it, when in reality is just a cute girls anime ( a particulary boring one ) it's like they want to feel smarter instead of just admiting that they like show that is just mindless entertaiment
a show can be great without being deep or philosophycal baccano for example , but the people always invent dumb excuses saying it is actually deep instead of just taking it for what it is
oh
I have never claimed K-On to be deep or philosophical. I don't really know what the metric for those things is. I've just explained what's good about K-On in a lot of detail. Lucky Star is an amazing show, and I could easily talk just as much about why.
+Digibro my bad I meant deep and MATURE ( you said it was mature ) wich really isn't at all you even said that if people disliked it it was they dont "get it" get what ?
man I dont wanna be really hard on k-on since it was one of the first "real" i watched anime (and also it's thanks to this one that I watched jojo)
but this show isn't more than just moeshit it isn't a comedy , it isn't a drama ,its not even the most boring one ( that title goes to hidamari sketch) ,it isn't anything is the very definition of a slice of nothing ever happens.
and sure the animation is really good and the character design is ok for this type of show but thats it , if you liked good for you I dont have anything against you , but dont proclaim that is something that IT ISNT
this is just like that south park episode where the boys write a stupid book and people started to ovethinking it
I have only seen the beginning of Hunter x Hunter (2011) and I think it has one of the worst first episodes I've ever seen (especially compared with the 1999-Version). I'm not sure if it will get better, but there seems to be a lot of people who praise it for being one of the best anime of all time, and I trust most of these people.
I'm kind of interested what your opinion to Hunter x Hunter and it's first episode is.
I don't believe HxH (2011) is one of the best anime, but you should watch it just for the York new arc
I really love the first one, and since I like the characters already and I'm interested in what's going to happen to them, I'll watch it even if it's bad.
But I don't think I would be invested in the characters at all if I hadn't watched the first Version.
But this anime is more loved than every bad anime I know, and even by people I actually trust. I don't get why, if it will continue to be this bad.
Hunter x hunter really only kicks off at the Yorkshin arc. Even the first major battle is in more than 36 episodes in. So to be honest, although the first three arcs or so before the Yorkshin arc is still pretty well written for a shounen series. If you aren't interested in the open adventure feel of HxH, you won't like it
Kok Xiang Wei
Well I know I'll like it. But I hate how they put no effort with their first impression.The first Version of the show took it's time to let you learn about the characters. And when you had to, you already were invested in them.
The 2011-Versions just rushes right in, doesn't show you how these characters think and the hunter-exam so far wasn't interesting because of that. If I wouldn't have watched the 1999-Versions I would never care at this point if he gets the license or not.
I think the beginning and the way you get to know the main characters is the most importand thing about a shounen series.
Something I really like about One Piece.
I don't think I'll have a bad time watching HunterXHunter. I didn't even have a bad time watching Naruto. But I don't think this show will never deserve the credit it gets.
It just really surprised me how lots of people with great tased even phrased it as Art. And after watching the firs Version, I didn't expect it to suck that much. And I'm kind of in denial about it.
Yeah pretty much the FMA to FMA:B effect where the first episodes feel rushed (pacing) in the newer version because you are expected to have already seen the older version
Good Advice man, and great analysis. Keep it up :)
The first episode of Suzumiya was terrible bad
and the last episode was painfully boring, they didnt even care
I actually thought Attack on Titan's first episode and entire initial arc was awful. I stopped watching after around four episodes, but then a friend persuaded me to read the manga, which I really enjoyed. I ended up going back to watch the Female Titan arc, which I thought was phenomenal and represented everything I liked about the manga, but I still can't stand the first few episodes. The jury is still out on whether I consider it a "great" anime based on how future seasons turn out, but AoT is definitely an example (for me, at least) of a show that started off overwrought and cliched but became much more interesting over the course of its run.
Yet again this does nothing to help your argument. "Anime X is good because Y" says nothing about why a first episode is relevant or not. If you like a show after one episode, or don't like it, that does NOT give you the right to score the show right there and say "See? It's a great anime. I don't even need to watch the rest." Should we do that with books too? Read chapter one and write a review? That's absurd. How about movies? "I didn't like the first 10 minutes, the movie therefore is crap."
A "great anime" is not and can never be determined by one episode alone. The very concept of that is nonsense. One episode is one episode. It's a nonsensical as judging a movie by any slice of 10 minutes that you liked or disliked, or a book by any 5 pages. It is NOT the whole story. And you do NOT judge based on a part instead of the whole.
No writer could ever take himself seriously or be taken seriously if he claimed even half of something speaks absolutely about the whole of it. Writing will always have strong and weak points, and will always have matters of taste.
"You are a bad cook because you put gravy on broccoli and I'd never do that."
"You are bad at sports because you can't hit a baseball with a bat."
"You are a bad artist because you can't draw with a pencil."
"All anime is bad because I saw one on TV I didn't like."
Heh.
I feel like you really wanted to seem smarter than everyone else by writing this comment. The "Heh." at the end of your comment supports that idea. Did you know that talking down to people is called "being condescending" and it often means they won't listen to you?
This is his general statement about anime that sums up these two videos.
"Great anime will have good first episodes, with few exceptions." He doesn't pretend that one episode will make the entire show great, or that every show that starts strong ends strong (in fact, he talks about the exact opposite in the first video) He simply says that a show that ended well, probably started well.
What's also some nice attention to detail on the Haruhi one is that their student film is also slightly unsaturated, like how a lot of live-action shows in the early 2000's tended to be.
Also, um, aren't you undermining your own point here a bit? You just said that if one watched Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya in production order, the first episode (broadcast second) wouldn't be as good of an introduction as the first one of broadcast order.
So if Kyoto or the network decided to air them in production order, wouldn't three-episode test be a better measure of quality?
1:47 How to recognize a great anime in 4 seconds
It's pronounced Baccàno, not Bàccano. It's an Italian word, not Japanese
No one is talking about the video, most likely didn't watch the whole video. So everyone is just complaining that _____ is bad or _____ first episode was bad
This leads to people thinking that this video "didn't teach them how to find a great anime." This episode was giving examples of why Digibro appeals to that anime and his opinion on certain topics like Plots and episode orders.
His opinions is meant to be taken not seriously, but actually to make you think "wow, I've should've watched it like that, yeah I can get why it doesn't appeal to me, Yeah it has a weird plot, etc. etc.
By Digibro's logic, kabaneri of the iron fortress should have been an amazing anime. I recall he literally drew parallels to FMA didn't he? But look at the garbage it turned out to be. Doesn't seem like one is able to recognize a great anime with only the first episode. Weird how you put out a video trying to teach people how do something that you yourself seem incapable of.
watch his latest video
He never once said a good first episode means a good anime........
In the first video he clearly gave an example: Zankyou no Terror. Amazing first episode, turned into garbage.
Baccano is the only series to date where after having finished the binge watch of the series, I watched it again then and there.
Does someone want to suggest a CGDCT on par with lucky star? Nothing has quite compared since I saw it
Nichijou has a very similar structure to that of Lucky Star but whereas Lucky Star feels grounded in reality Nichijou is completely absurd.
Have you tried Kiniro Mosaic or GochiUsa?
+Lanvidia12 I wouldn't call it that similar when considering the context of how Digibro framed Lucky Star here, as Nichijou is a lot more like a straight adaptation of a 4-koma than somewhere halfway between 4-koma and drama CD, which is a lot more visible in its pattern of having mostly disconnected one-shots that string back-and-forth between its different groups of characters. That being said, it accomplishes what it sets out to do incredibly well.
As for +stutter, I would also recommend Nichijou, as well as Yuru Yuri.
Personally, I consider most of them to be on par, but just trying to do different things.
That being said, you might try Yuyushiki. I think it might have a similar structure to what he's explaining here of almost being like a "podcast" with long stretches of conversation whose comedy results from that odd type of random, transient humor you get when talking with friends. As I recall, it was also fairly popular in its time as well.
Worth a shot, maybe?
EDIT - And of course, there's always the rest of the holy trinity, which is Lucky Star, K-On, and Azumanga Daioh. Although, K-On is a slower burner and Azumanga Daioh is more comedy centric. But they're all definitely on par
Yuru Yuri is a pretty similar one and is really entertaining. Main group is 4 girls just like LS, there are some memorable side characters just like in LS, and two of the characters are really into video games (Yui) and manga (Kyoko) similar to Konata. The openings are also insanely catchy.
Another funny one is Azumanga Daioh but the animation isn't quite as sharp since it's an older show
Lucky Star is so painfully boring that it should be used as a form of execution.
Y-you disliked Joker Game...and like Lucky Star?
I can't do this anymore, the existential crisis I'm feeling is too much to bear.
Well actually, it just inverts your tastes from mine, and clearly what we expect from Japanese animation. No biggie.
He has a video on why he likes Lucky Star. It's called *Why context matters*.
Rorikon Kuro Thanks I'll check it out
moe is such a stale meme
Joker Game is a half-baked wannabe of everything else in its genre.
I loved your analysis but that whole lucky star thing... Hmm... I remember I was trying to look for another anime to watch after I finished watching Azumanga Daioh. I found that some people recommend watching lucky star because they were similar... They weren't. But seeing how much you liked it, I'll give it another shot. (I didn't even finish watching the first episode) PS: I just subscribed
Eww you watched Baccano in sub? One of the few times the dub is far superior.
How can a dub be superior, when the subbed version has Norio Wakamoto?
+Jarik761 The dub has accents
+Jarik761 because ridiculous New York accents can't make a show about prohibition era monsters worse
He watched it when he was airing, the dub wasn't out yet.
On the flipside, I hope he's watched it in dub since. Baccano's dub is pure win.
dub was very good tbh...and i mostly dislike a lot dubbed versions
*_"Lips like licorice! Tongue like candy! Excuse me miss? But can I get you out yo panties!?!"_*
That's going on a TShirt with Kanade Suzutsuki on it!