Mary was and is so close with Jesus like no one of us ever would be, because she was His earthly mother. I can even imagine close enough how it feels to be pregnant with God, and then raised Him up! no mentioning her mother's heart watching Him on Calvary! And there is communion of saints so on earth as it is in Heaven! And if we are part of God's Church here we also are part of this communion! And I am speaking as an enlightened evangelical...by the Grace of God!
You don't know Jesus if you think Mary is closer to him than you as a saved child. Jesus died to cover her sin just like he died to cover yours. In the kingdom, you are her equal.
@@The.Alabama.Woodsman I don’t get it. Protestants make sure to honor mothers, earthly mothers yet the mother of Christ himself is neglected, cast aside, treated with indifference. Mary is the Theotokos, she is the God bearer. She isn’t just the mother of his human nature but of his divine nature as well. She is not worshipped, but she is honored.
@@akiram6609 "mother of His DIVINE NATURE" Do you what it means? It means that GOD has mother. God, He as a DIVINE NATURE has a beginning. If so, that means He is not what he said he was in Revelation 22:13 (KJV) I am Alpha and Omega, THE BEGINNING and the end, THE FIRST and the last. And the analogy of Melchisedec that the writer of Hebrews refers to would make no sense. Hebrews 7:3 (KJV) "WITHOUT FATHER, WITHOUT MOTHER, WITHOUT DESCENT, HAVING NEITHER BEGINNING OF DAYS, nor end of life; but MADE LIKE UNTO THE SON OF GOD; abideth a priest continually."
You are stretching it. She is blessed among women because she got to raise Jesus. But that is it. Look at what Jesus himself says when the crowd tells him “ your mother(Mary) and brothers are outside asking for you” what does Jesus say “ he points to those around him saying whoever does the will of the father are my mother and brothers” so that role of being his earthly mother isn’t so special after all. Mary blessed among women and that’s it. You have one mediator and that is Jesus Christ. Pray for help only to Jesus. You should fear doing anything else
In the Book of Revelations, the description of Heavenly worship reveals the Throne of God with the Saints offering interscession at the Altar. There is Praise and Worship. The Archangel Gabriel says that all generations shall call you Blessed (speaking to Mary). We do this, we do on Earth what is being done in Heaven because we are One Body of Christ, not divided. Who was on Mount Tabor with Christ? Not dead people but Moses and Elijah. We Orthodox talk about our Heroes the Saints like some people talk about favorite Sports figures...but the Saints are true Heros!
Bonnie Jesus is the ONLY advocate, mediator if you like. Worship the eucharist makes you the worse idolator of all. Jesus showed us how to worship and pray directly to God. Your pope has said differently that it is only through the church one can get salvation. He is deceiving you all. Christ is divine, mary is only human though, but was blessed amoung women. full stop. Good luck though
Vivian thank you for your comment. Glory goes to God, the all knowing One True God. Jesus was and is to come. I was a so called Christian for 50 years but had a grateful oportunity to do research over the last ten years. The apostacy is coming, it has been unbelievable with all that has been happening in the roman catholic church that it has taken so long. Portugal will stay strong believers but all the other countries will loose faith , not in God but in the church. This needs to happen. All you Christians in the catholic church get OUT of her. God Bless
I was raised protestant, but always found the catholic and the orthodox churches really fascinating. The imagery makes the whole experience so much more immersive and intense.
As a cradle Catholic, I have a very strong devotion to the Blessed Mother. She brought me back to the church after a long time away. I just recently attended a Byzantine Catholic service and marveled at the the hymns to Mary. "You, truly the Mother of God, we magnify." Beautiful! It seems to me that Eastern Catholics and the Orthodox church have never wavered in their devotion to Mary, where I feel the Roman Catholics did for a time following Vatican II. It always saddens me to see the hostility toward her. When we magnify her, we also magnify her son. It's not a competition! We honor her above all other creatures for saying yes to God and the angel Gabriel and bringing our savior into the world!
Wagon Wheel it doesnt. The Catholic church being in the state of upholding modernism and universalism will of course be wobbly even to their own teachings. The Orthodox church wont however, tolerate any form of heresy. We love the people in the Catholic church, but not the teachings and the heresy taught by the Catholic church
Wagon Wheel Papal infalability, Immaculate conception, Purgatory, indulgences.. etc. All these are not according to the original christian church and is a complete heresy
Are you lost sir? If there is anything that is actually of original teachings from the Apostles to the early Church Fathers and Saints, its the Orthodox Church which is also started by Jesus Christ through His apostles. The Orthodox Church is the one that has kept and preserved the unchanged teachings of the original Christianity ever since 2000 years ago. The Roman Catholic church on the other hand, has changed and "update" their teachings through councils and councils, with invention of doctrines that was never ever there in the beginning, with the obvious recent Vatican II council, which brought huge liturgical changes to suit and cater to protestants, toning down the traditional Latin Mass, abolishing ad orientam, abolishing Latin in line for vernacular, laities holding the consecrated Host, etc.. all of which has never been there in the early Church and such practice is considered to be abominable and great heresy. So tell me again, which church is "Just another protestant church wearing a very fancy dress with bearded man" You can stay ignorant and comment blindly all you want. But then again, it doesnt make you anymore smarter and right, and especially when you dont even argue validly and just point on vague points with no back up valid supports whatsoever.
Jesus is our savior. Jesus is our God. Jesus is what our church is about. Jesus is holy lamb for our sins and our souls. Everything except the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is after them..
Offcourse!! am saying that WE LOVE MARY!! is there any problem with that???? any body didnt tall us that God is the almighty and the only God, and any body can supperim him!!!
Please lets focus on our role for the world by refering the saints whos loved by GOD us he say by his appostle Paul "Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God" Heb 13:7 Now a days those who says we are spritual are under securals in moral and etics, any one cant degrading who is honnered by God.
What about Him? Some one saying they love Mary doesn't infer they hate Jesus... Jesus told us to love our neibours and fellow men. So we love Mary, and worship and love Jesus.
smoked ribs For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ 1Timothy 2: 5 This is where the orthodox church and catholic churches are going wrong. Narrow is the path, many will be called but only few will be chosen
Tom Dick The Orthodox Church never deny Christ as our only mediator. To begin with, Mary is able to pray for us precisely because Christ mediates for us. But by your understanding then, dont even ask a person to pray for you then. Since you dont even want the Saints to pray for you and insist that you must pray directly to the Lord alone.
Tom Dick | "Mediator" does not mean intercessory, it means middle-man. The only one who is both God and man is Christ. It means reconciler. The Orthodox do not believe Christ intercedes on behalf of mankind like Arianism teaches. Christ is Almighty God who sits on the Throne of Judgement. He does not intercede, He is interceded to.
Beautiful explanation, thank you I needed this because even if I understood this concept, it was still tough for me so I went to the best place and understand this
The most famous and popular Orthodox Church hymn dedicated to the Blessed Virgin Mary is Agni Parthene aka O Pure Virgin. You'll likely hear this song being played when parishioners are receiving Holy Communion. Sometimes if I play the song, I do it before praying the Holy Rosary.
I was raised Roman Catholic and Mary was always special to me and guided my perception of women and thr importance of all feminine virtues and gifts. I have admittedly fallen short of honoring her and what she represents to humanity but I have always held her in the highest regard. This summer I visited the place where I was born and took my children to the church I was baptized in. To the left side of the altar up front was a statue of Mary. I knew at that moment that it was a directive from God to live with honor for her and to build a relationship with her. To no longer let the protestant culture I have become a part of cause me to ignore or be silent about her virtues and importance in the world
@@BecomeAnOrthodoxChristian I cherry pick nothing. This is typical of people who see a scripture and cant deal with its truth. My reference of Scripture is in context. Deal with it.
@@The.Alabama.Woodsman Ask yourself this question, why did nobody share that view in the first millenium? Intercession of Saints has been believed since the time of the early Church.
@@BecomeAnOrthodoxChristian Doesn't matter. There were a lot of things during the reformation that today we know better. God said knowledge would increase as His Spirit was poured out. To say Mary can soften Jesus up when I pray is an assault to the deity of Jesus Christ and I personally would call is blasphemous. Mary needed a savior just like me. Where in the Bible do we see the need to pray to Saints. Abraham said to Lazarus.... "They have the law and the scriptures" Please educate me on the biblical foundation of Saint prayers.
@@orthodoxouwatje4632 Blasphemy! Jesus is not a reincarnate of anything. This is utter horse manure generate to make Mary deity. maybe read Luke 11 27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!” But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” Even Jesus took Mary and qualified her, "Being Blessed" to a LOWER LEVEL than all those who hear God's words and obey. Your are worshiping another god and it is worthy of hell's fire.
@@The.Alabama.Woodsman by reincarnate, i mean he's God but in human form. I didn't understand sht of what you said but just to be clear, i believe in the trinity like every Orthodox, catholic, protestants, anglican and ect
BornAgain happyfriday , Jesus is the center of worship. He is the Saviour and Redeemer. Also , it might be wise to read the specific video title. This video in under 3 minutes is addressing the Blessed Mother of Jesus. If you truly wish to obtain the overall tradition to the church, as opposed to criticizing something you may not fully grasp in 3 minutes on a specific subject, Our Lord Jesus Christ's Mother, there are numerous, numerous videos available. As well as any parish will gladly answer your inquiries. God Bless you, Christ is Risen.
BornAgain happyfriday , Well, no one is WORSHIPING Mary at all; or THEY should not be. Mary is paid reverence as the Virgin Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ. As you well know it is mentioned all generations shall call her "Blessed". Mary's cousin Elizabeth, the Mother of " John the Baptist" is mentioned as feeling " her child "leap" in her womb" at being in the presence of Mary. She further expands on this feeling as " not being worthy"to be in the presence of the Mother of her Lord" . The Lord Jesus Christ as we all Christians should understand could have chosen ANY way we could or could not possibly imagine ,to bring to the World his incarnation. He did not have to choose to become a human. He could have shown himself in all Glory, in such away that our human minds could hardly grasp at the infinite possibilities. However in his grace and infinite wisdom, he chose to become incarnate IN HIS OWN CREATION. He created humankind. He chose to manifest his creations' salvation as a human being. With an ordinary( by financial,social and other coordinating data) mother and father. He was a Jew. A Jew that released the Jews from the Mosaic tradition and law upon his RESURRECTION. Prior to his Passion and ressurection he adhered to the instructions of law , clearly, more than any human could have hoped to. One of the most important of those laws, as gentiles we are generally only familiar with the 10 commandments, is to obey( and or honor, with out questions) thy Father and thy Mother. He followed that law and all others ( excluding, in his infinite wisdom, for instance healing on the Sabbath) to the minutia or smallest degree. The point being- if you deny the importance of Jesus Christ's choices of whom he should have , out of the entire human race, created each and all singly by him in the fullness of , God the Father,the Son and, the Holy Spirit, you deny Christ in his self willed creation as God become Man through the intercession of the Holy Spirit overshadowing Mary, the Virgin betrothed to Joseph , the importance of her gift. Her agreement to the Angel Gabriel, " Let it be done,according to HIS WILL". Our Lord, ( and this is a pivotal point) allowed Mary to use her gift of freewill. She did not have to. She chose to participate in an amazingly wonderful as well as deeply sorrowful life. Proceeding from this background information forward to another related subject. I believe this is a crux that unnecessarily adds a division amongst Christians of many backgrounds . The understanding of " pray". I genuinely, truly understand the significance and, difficulty surrounding this idea. I was raised Southern, conservative, strict Baptist. That is about theologically different,from Orthodoxy or Catholicism within the Christian faith as you can get. When I and the majority( as I understand it) of Catholics, Anglicans, Orthodox Catholics etc. " pray" to Or what it correctly SHOULD BE translated as "Pray with" or in Communion with , The Blessed Mary, Mother of Jesus Christ as " True God, True man" , Saints of the bygone era of Christianity , or those within the Beatific vision of Heaven , Guardian Angels, etc. etc. . We or I , are not praying To tbem, but asking in " the name of Jesus Christ our Lord" whom is the only needed intermediary between His creation of humanity and himself as within the fulfillment of the triune God, to join us in communion of the Saints,Choirs of the Angels, specific Sainted Persons known for a specific suffering or miraculous event granted by Christ , to pray with us. All Glory, ALL goes to God. I do not in any way , believe, acknowledgement of the Blessed Virgin Mary as a significant , wholly worthy creation of God, chosen to be his earthly representitive, caretaker,TEACHER,MOTHER,etc is wrong. I also and, I guess this may be sticking point, that the Saints ( wether Canonized, or Holy Souls in Heaven )are dead. It states during Christ's transfiguration on the Mount he is with Elijah and Moses( Matthew 17). If Jesus is conversing with them , they are not dead. They are a part of the church eternal. As well Hebrews, 12:1 further mentions that " those who have gone before us, witness what is taking place on earth" . If you desire , there are other passages that speak in a similar view. I can not deny that abuses of this communion between earthbound and the souls of heaven occur. If ANY created being, dead or alive is in direct competition with God Almighty , set such aside as it is not of the will of the Lord Jesus Christ. I.hope this may shed some light on the question. God Bless and keep you .
BornAgain happyfriday , Well, not worship, we've and I'm sure others, have said it's not worship of Mary or any other Saint, etc. Only the Trinity is worthy of worship. Why acknowledge Mary ? I gather that's what your getting at. She is worthy . Our God , the Father,Son,Holy Spirit, Triune,created Mary soley so that Jesus Christ could be created in the flesh. She was created to be the Mother of God in the flesh. Of all time, there (according to scripture) will be only one incarnation of God in the flesh. It was announced to her by an archangel, she had been chosen by God to be the Ark of the new Covenant . She said " Let it be done", giving consent, was then overshadowed by the Holy Spirit and our Emmanuel started to grow as human child in his mother's womb . Mary loved,held,fed,bathed,taught got up at 3 am for feedings, protected, etc. OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. She spent more time with him than anyone else. She loved him, not only as his Mother, knowing the unbounded treasure of not just having a beautiful, healthy, intelligent child. He Was GOD. At his presentation at the temple the first forewarning was given to her of not only his Majesty but that "her heart would be pierced" . Scripture does not elaborate a great deal on the first 30 years of Jesus Christ's life. But genuinely, put aside any preconceived notions about ,well anything negative, put yourself in Nazareth with Jesus Christ as a child or young person. Think on their family.I think that Mary was not your every day mere girl, she holds a significant importance. She is worthy of recognition, a model of the ideal of a woman. It's in the 10 commandments that Christians follow( as opposed to the hundreds related to Old Law that Jesus Christ abolished), that your parents are to be honored , so if Jesus Christ honors her ,so will I. I'm going to assume you know your scripture or can pick it up and research if you choose.Mary is specifically mentioned" She is to be Blessed for all generations,for all time". Part of her conversation with Elizabeth, who was in Old age and miraculously by God's grace was pregnant with John the Baptist. Mary was with her son the King of Kings , Creator and Saviour of all, at the foot of the cross when was horrificly crucified. She was with him at Pentacost and received the Blessing of the Holy Spirit in tongues of fire. I understand some hesitancy from a Non Catholic background in dealing with ,what may appear, to be an inordinate amount of attention to Mary. I wrote a long post earlier to you so there is no need to insult you with repeating what is already written. You can,easily research the Protestant ,Catholic disagreement concerning Mary the Mother of Jesus Christ. If you genuinely wish to understand, or bolster your own argument , debate, etc. You can. As well, we are Christians . With the unholy , overwhelming influence of Paganism, Islam, Atheism, outright Satanism. general Apathy and laziness covering the laity , I think we should try to understand each other of our flocks instead of fostering division. Divided we fall. Division is Evils greatest gift and we unknowingly hand that over every day . May God Bless and keep you.
Mary is a comforting presence indeed. She's a mother and she experienced heartbreaking grief as we humans do. Protestants have lost this key element and our beautiful Art which inspired us.
Help. I’m a Protestant considering Orthodoxy. But I’m confused. Some say we aren’t praying to Mary, but communing with her. Others say we pray to Mary, even asking for healing or other things. Vespers seems to have prayers to Mary. But isn’t praying to the dead supposed to be prayers to God alone? I’m confused and trying to understand. This is my one big hang up right now.
I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding in our approach. As Orthodox Christians, we don't see any of the saints or Mary for that matter as being dead. Rather, they are departed from this life but still alive in Christ. Remember, He is the vine and we are the branches (John 15:5-6). So it isn't a question of should we pray to God or the holy people of the Church. We pray to God alone and ask the saints to pray for us in the same way we ask our friends to pray for us. Because again, the saints are not dead, they have simply left this life and are awaiting the return of Our Lord. Also remember that God is the God of the living, not the dead (Matthew 22:32). Eternal life in Christ Jesus is what we are all striving towards, so how could those who have gone before us not be alive in Christ Jesus?
@Learningeasternorthodoxy All christians who are not protestant pray the Virgin Mary, the Angels and the Saints and mostly the monks, It's our traditions.... 2000 years of christian traditions
I am a life long Protestant and you stated exactly what what concerns us in your own words at 2:44; you said, "our prayers to her". Language like that, and language does matter, is why I'm hesitant to go to one of my local Orthodox Churches despite my growing curiosity. I came to the video hoping that this would provide clarification and allay my fears, now they are only heightened.
Prayer means asking. Since they are departed, with the Lord, in perfect union and glory with Him, the way we ask them for their prayers is, of course, through prayer.
@@Naturecraft645 Yes. Christ is the only gateway. I hold The Blessed Mary in high reguard/respect. Father God chose her to carry our Messiah/Savior Jesus Christ. Blessed Mary had Unique/Holy qualities that no other woman had. I don't think we are to pray to her or saints tho.😔
I'm a protestant, and for awhile now I've been interested in Orthodox Christianity. In the video she mentions that praying the Mary (and I'm assuming the saints as well) enhances your relationship with God. I don't really understand that way of thinking, could someone explain that to me? I'm honestly interested to know.
It's fine to be interested. But don't go that route. Nowhere in the bible does it say to pray to Mary. Stick to sola scriptora not the traditions of man
@@ShruteFarms001 The bible was put together 400 years after Christ. By not venerating Saints you ignore 400 years of traditions passed down from the Apostles themselves.
Our Lord prayed that we be the one just as They (Holy Trinity) are One. We can not separate Church Triumphant from Church Militant and call ourselves one. Through our unity we draw closer to God and we fulfill His desire/commandment to us.
I never EVER in Catholicism bought into anything about Mary, even after coming around to the idea of intercessors, but it was only when discerning Orthodoxy that the beauty of the Theotokos began to illuminate itself and Mary became someone I revered. This lady in the video is surely an icon of the Lord and an example of how Mary herself must be. I hope one day I am saved from the Catholic darkness and become Orthodox.
My question is, how can you ask her to pray for you or how do you feel comforted in her presence. When she isn’t omnipresent. How can she. I thought only God was omnipresent
*Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad. Kings' daughters were among thy honorable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir. Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house; so shall the King greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him. And the daughter of Tyre shall be there with a gift; even the rich among the people shall entreat thy favor. The King's daughter is all glorious within: her clothing is of wrought gold. She shall be brought unto the King in raiment of needlework: the virgins her companions that follow her shall be brought unto thee. With gladness and rejoicing shall they be brought: they shall enter into the King's palace. Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children, whom thou mayest make princes in all the earth. I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever and ever.* - _Psalm 44 (45):6-17_ King and Prophet David, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, foreshadowed the Virgin Mary here. The psalmist illustrates some of her theological titles, metaphysical/spiritual roles and even some later prophesies of her myrrh streaming icons and holy vessels. She is considered God's throne and ladder, the means by which God came down to save us. Her garments smell of myrrh aloes, just like all the miraculous streaming relics throughout the ages. She is called daughter by David, since she is his descendant. David says the King will desire her beauty, her pure heart and blessed sacrificial life. Daughters and kings will and have looked up to her emulating this blessed and chaste life.
I like orthodoxy but praying to Mary is why I stay Anglican, we have the icons and the ancient prayers in our prayer book, but without praying to non-divine human saints. Great respect for orthodoxy, but I need more info on this point.
I'm a very recent convert (soon to be catechuman). I convinced my father and my sister to go with me this Sunday to attend a Divine Liturgy, but I fear that they may be disgusted by the adoration of Mother Mary.
It is scary for certain as a new, soon-to-be catechumen. Fear doesn't come from God so dismiss it if possible (talk to the priest of course). But I suppose I'm commenting after they attended with you. May God bless you and them
@@Theoria Thanks for the concern. I've gone to this new Church twice so far. They stayed for an hour the first time, then skipped the rest. And then (the second time) they dropped me off at Church and left. Shame, but I can't force them to do anything.
@@sethl7078 Show them the earliest known prayer to the Theotokos dating back to ~250 AD: www.oodegr.com/english/ekklisia/oldest_theotokos_prayer.htm Church always honored the saints through prayers the same way the saints are always praying for their brethren who live into this world [Revelation 6:9-11].
@@orthoglobus ay brother, i have a question. I'm a teen and Orthodox, I'm just wondering, is it really needed to pray to the Theotokos? I feel more comfortable praying to Jesus himself.
@@orthodoxouwatje4632 Praying to the Theotokos and the Saints is an indispensable part of Orthodox spiritual life, since with our prayers to them we ask for their intercessions to God. What you wrote about feeling uncomfortable with praying to the Theotokos reminded me of something St. Paisios of Mount Athos had said once. He said that - contrary to you - he was feeling more comfortable with praying to the Theotokos rather than to Christ, since he was feeling Theotokos Mary like his beloved mother, while he was feeling unworthy while praying directly to Christ! Nevertheless keep cultivating prayer in all its aspects and prayer itself will teach you the "Orthodox ethos", i.e. Orthodox way of life.
I’m confused - so I’ve heard an Orthodox believer state that the Orthodox do not pray to the Saints, but in this video, this believer says they do pray to the Saints. Which is the truth?
The minute I realised that God doesn't exist only in the present, or past, or future, gave way to the question "Could I pray for Moses to have strength as he leads people out of Egypt? God exists then AND now, not then, THEN now. Although I'm unsure on this question specifically, I do now believe the Orthodox concept of the church and saints that still share communion with us, even as their bodies lie. This is what has made me, a Baptist Protestant come to admire the Orthodox Church in hopes of joining it once COVID control allows us to in Canada. God Bless the beautiful Orthodox church
Yes you can pray for Moses to have strength as he leads people out of Egypt because God exists simultaneously in the past, present, and future as well as everywhere at the same time. I asked my priest if I could pray for Jesus to have strength when he was in the Garden of Gethsemane, and he said, yes. It's mind boggling, but it's the truth.
I have a concern or 2. 1. Who us this "cloud of witness " we are talking about ? 2. Can we ask the souls/spirits of the deceased to intercede and pray for us ? Hoe does this work ? And is this biblically sound? Or do we only ask those with us in this life to pray with and for us ?
The cloud of witnesses are The Saints. Of course we can ask The Saints to pray for us, they’re alive in Christ. The Church takes precedent over what is biblical, as The Church predates The Bible by some 300 years and produced The Bible. This doesn’t mean that praying to saints contradicts anything in The Bible, but The Bible is not the ultimate Authority, The Church is.
It says pray for one another, Paul was also asking for prayers of those who were inperfect here on earth Those who are in heaven are doing that, you can talk to them trough prayer like you would do on the grave of your departed family member with faith they can hear you They are in Heaven now As John said they are like Him now, Children of God almighty... Did you notice Jesus is making us like Him in every possible way ? It includes prayers for others
Just saying, these aren't just superlatives. There is no exaggeration. Mary is the greatest human to ever live and is beyond compare more glorious than the seraphim. She is above the angels and is closest to Christ. She never sinned by God's grace. We can't describe how holy she was on earth and is in heaven. Important to remember though that Christ is God, and while Mary is pure and holy, she does not compare to God's perfection, and the great wonder she is is all from God's grace and mercy.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fell short of the glory of God. The only one without sin was Jesus Christ Himself. And did you read when Mary and His brothers came to Jesus, and the people said: your mother and brothers are here. What did Jesus reply? He said: who is my mother and who are my brothers? Those who do my will. Now why would Jesus put Mary (who I am sure he loved very much) on the same pedestal as any other believer who does His will?
You can't say her the closest to God as there is no one compared to him. You can't say she didn't sin as the bible said that everyone sinned and that is what made our chirst jesus different while he was living in earth. She is blessed, that we know ,but there is no need to let her take over partially Gods place unknowingly. Just keep worshiping God don't have time for anything else.
Unfortunately this same misinterpretation of Mary's role is against the Catholic Church! Protestants simply want to see things narrow, they use too much reason calling it faith! traditional churches are using the Spirit of Revelation and meditation on things!
It all comes down to the difference between the East and the West in terms of the idea of original sin. In the West, one is guilty, even at conception, of sin, and therefore death AND damnation ( look into the theology of "baby limbo"..this has only occurred in the West, where an innocent fetus/infant would be guilty of being sinful.) This idea is foreign in the East....you may be born with an inclination TO sin, like a disease, but you are not guilty of any sins you did not commit. Original sin in the East is that inclination to do wrong in the sight of God, not innate damnation of sins prior to committing them. . In the East, we refer to Mary as Immaculate because she, though within the condition that would cause her to sin, in fact did NOT sin. She was pure on her own accord, though being a mortal born into having still the chronic disease of mortal sin, needed a saviour. In the West, the only way their theology would work is if Mary was in fact immaculate from conception, since that is when they see all people guilty of sin. In the West, yes, an embryo is somehow guilty of sin....we don't believe that at all in the East! Hope this answer helps! God bless-
@@bpowell7999 I was just searching for an answer to a question I had regarding this very thing. I saw a video by a Catholic Friar, where they basically state that Mary would have had to be immaculate from conception, but for that to be true, her mother would have had to be, and on and on. But your explanation here pretty much answers this and I just want to comment to say thank you! You've broken it down in a very helpful way. God bless.
Romans 8:26 says that the Holy Spirit intercedes for us, so why would you pray to dead saints and to Mary and ask them to pray for you and intercede for you when the Bible clearly says that the Holy Spirit intercedes for us ? Also, 1 Timothy 2:5 says there is ONLY ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Mary and the dead saints are NOT our mediators.
As someone who believes that the Orthodox Church is the Original one, I'd like to see this question answered by someone smarter than me? The Orthodox Church is obviously the oldest and most beautiful when it comes to Aesthetics and liturgy, however I must admit that all of the Mary veneration and icons sometimes makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable. I'm even beginning to have difficulty understanding the Triune God because a plain reading of the Bible clearly differentiates between Jesus and God. It seems to me that God would have made all of this more clear? Whatever the case may be, God knows best.
@@franka2743 here’s a couple of video links to help you see what the Bible says about the Father and Jesus Christ. Also, Roman Catholics also believe their church is the oldest and original church. And the Catholics give historical evidence to back up their claims. I’m not sure who’s right, the Catholics or the Orthodox, but we’re all part of the Body of Christ, so it doesn’t matter which denomination was here first.
@@franka2743 “Jesus is God. These 33 Bible verses prove it in 5 minutes.” ua-cam.com/video/OldNsQLiFBs/v-deo.html “Where Did Jesus Say, “I Am God, Worship Me “? (David Wood)” ua-cam.com/video/sS-lLTfCI7c/v-deo.html
And How you can explain this verse? Ephesians 6:18 (KJV) Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; And you'll see cause in this verse, Saint Paul the Apostle himself write this. And once again, Jesus Promised, who want to follow Him and be His Disciples, then he will lived again even he's die. Jesus also said to a villain next to Him, and Jesus said Luke 23:43 (KJV) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. If you are Protestant thinks we're Orthodox Church Worshipped to Virgin Mary and all of the Saints, you are totally WRONG!
@@TheophilosVavorountos if you actually read Ephesians 6 in its proper context, you’ll see that it was written to people at EPHESUS who were STILL ALIVE, NOT to dead people in heaven. Furthermore, Ephesians 6:12-18 is all about SPIRITUAL WARFARE. No where in Ephesians 6 does it tell us to pray to Mary or the dead saints. Praying in the Spirit in Ephesians 6:18 is the same as praying in the Holy Spirit in Jude 1:20. When the Bible says that even though he dies, he will live, it’s talking about a person receiving eternal life when they get RESURRECTED at the second coming of Jesus Christ. The Bible says the DEAD in Christ will be raised from the DEAD at Christ’s second coming. Even the Bible recognizes these people are dead. You Catholics and Orthodox love to twist the Scriptures to your own destruction just so you can keep your unbiblical traditions. (2 Peter 3:16 KJV) You’re no different than the Pharisees. The thief on the cross is STILL DEAD. His spirit is with Jesus, but he’s STILL DEAD because he does NOT have a body and he still has NOT been resurrected from the dead yet. James 2:26 KJV says the body without the spirit is DEAD. And you DO worship Mary. Click on the following video link and see how. NO WHERE in the Bible does it tell us to pray to Mary or the dead saints. The Apostles NEVER taught prayer to the dead or prayer to Mary. The video link below is directed towards the Orthodox Church mostly, but also towards Catholics.
I think I am not saying something bad if I say that the Church of Christ is a Church of love and hearts. We love the Holy Mary because she loves Jesus Christ and she loves us as her children because of that. Jesus Christ is union of love.
When you pray to ANY saint you are putting them into competition with the Lord. 1 Timothy 2:5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”
Paraphrasing Mrs. Green in this video "We don't let Mary take our attention away from God. And also in worship we turn away from God towards Mary." I don't mean this to be rude, nor do I mean to imply you do not know Jesus. But this direct contradiction is what I have so much trouble understanding about the Orthodox church. I don't condemn you in any way, I simply believe in a Christocentric doctrine, and I can't imagine why anybody would want to pray to dead people when Christ Himself dwells in them. I think of the myriad of places scripture tells us the dead are here no more and cannot hear us. I can't separate in my brain Orthodox teachings of this sort from divination. Again, love you all, and trying to understand you and love you more. I am not here to cast the first stone, because I don't have it all together either.
Antonius I have never hated anyone, and I dont hate mary BUT I have my views and they are as it states: For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ 1Timothy 2: 5. The path is very narrow, many will be called but only few will be chosen and that is because of your heresy.
I don't think its accurate to say that Protestants hate Mary. However, they do not believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary or the ascension of Mary, nor do they believe in saints.
Don't be afraid to call on Mary, she's your Mother too! "Behold YOUR MOTHER" this is what Jesus told John at the foot of the Cross, and Mary is not dead, she's in heaven body and soul, why would God let the woman who beared him in thy womb for nine months corrupt? Why would the most blessed amongst women corrupt? Why would the Theotokos corrupt? Why would the woman Full of GRACE corrupt? Why would Mary the New Ark of the Covenant corrupt? Isn't Mary the New Ark?: The Old Ark and Mary has a lot in common: 1. The Old Ark was placed in the Holy of all Holies. Mary was Full of Grace and was filled with the Holy Spirit 2. The Old Ark contained 3 things: -The Word of God (10 Commandments) -The Manna (Bread from heaven) -The Rod of Aaron Mary's womb has Jesus who is the: -Word of God -Bread from heaven that whoever recieves him shall not hunger again. -The High Priest with the Iron Rod. 3. David lept before the old ark and said "how can the ark of the Lord ever come to me?" John the Baptist lept before Mary in Elizabeths womb and Elizabeth said "How can this be? That the Mother of my Lord should come to me?" 4. It was said that the new ark is already in Heaven, who is the New Ark? Mary, Body and Soul. And What is mediator? Someone who points out someone to something, Moses was a Mediator too! So is Mary, everything she does points out to Jesus his son, Mary can be our role model to imitate her actions and obey God, and it all points out to Jesus, Mary is close to Jesus, she's the Closest human being to Jesus since she's his Mother, let us love Mary! The Theotokos.
Destiny of the endless as a Protestant Christian i don't hate marry, i just believe that she's the mother of jesus on this earth and there's no verse in the bible says that we have to pray to marry and believe that marry would say it to Jesus..jesus is the only lord our saviour..why we have to asked a dead person like saints or marry to pray for us?.they don't even hear it..LoL..
I am currently in the assemblies of god and have grown dissatisfied with all the things of evangelicalism. I do not feel they are the way church should be. I'm scared to say anything because then I'd have to tell my pastor why I want to leave and also my wife.
As didora already mentioned, the saints in heaven are not dead, they are more alive they you or I. rev 5:8 tells of the being in heaven offering the prayers of the saints on earth to God. Note the liturgical setting, incense, candles, scrolls being read, etc.
I understand the role of the saints and the Virgin Mary but why is it that the Orthadox church sings far more praises to her than the Holy Spirit. Why should one who is so blessed be so venerated that we have to devote far more prayers through the Theotokos than the Holy Spirit. Did Christ not say when he leaves one greater will come ,the Comforter and the One who will sand there to protect us. The Holy Spirit is God’s breath within us. There is a fundamental problem and often Orthadox Christians will say may the God bearer be with you even though Jesus said I send you the Holy Spirit. There is nothing wrong with veneration but there is something wrong when the amount of veneration turns into worship. Did Christ not say you must be reborn, he did not say you must pray to my mother.
It is important to differentiate between Holy Liturgy, Vigil and other type of services from the Akathist that is dedicated to the specific saint. In services saints are mentioned, Mother of God also but in very small proportion comparing to the number of prayers directed to the Holy Trinity. On the other hand, with Akhatist that is specifically directed and dedicated to one saint, mentioning of that saint is far more intense. If it happen to be Akathist to the Mother Mary, she is called upon many times. In the life of the Church, time spent on regular services is predominant comparing to the time Akathists are sung. Within one and a half hours that Holy Liturgy usually take, there is a plenty of time for prayers to Holy Trinity and to the saints. Noone is forgotten. Peace brother..
"More prayers to her than the Holy Spirit" have you read Orthodox prayers? Most of them end with an address of worship to the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). We praise/pray to the Holy Spirit _a lot,_ particularly in union with Father and Son. In our Liturgy, we ask for the presence of the Holy Spirit, and during the consecration of the Eucharist we ask the Father to send forth His Spirit upon us and the bread and wine. Every Orthodox prayer service, and even things like meetings of Orthodox Christians begin with a prayer to tbe Holy Spirit, "O Heavenly King" We worship the Father, through the Son, in the Spirit.
"Or you can to someone else in the circle.. " Well, that's not what the apostles teach us. Romans 8:26-27 (KJV) "LIKEWISE THE SPIRIT ALSO HELPETH OUR INFIRMITIES: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: BUT THE SPIRIT ITSELF MAKETH INTERCESSION FOR US WITH GROANINGS WHICH CANNOT BE UTTERED. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because HE MAKETH INTERCESSION FOR THE SAINTS ACCORDING TO THE WILL OF GOD."
I don't know what the version mine is, but it's called The Orthodox Study Bible. My priest gave it to me because I didn't have one and it has beautiful teachings and explanations inside along with the full Bible. I highly recommend you look it up.
In 30 000 verses of the Bible nowhere does it say that Mary is our intercessor! Dead is dead to us, To him we cannot hide, hell heaven etc. Ecc9:5 the dead have no more reward, 1Sam 15:28 witch of endo. Catholics & Orthodox want to seem imperior to normal Pentecostal Christians by making idols & praying to God knows who. Just know this, you will be judged by God for turning people away from God. Ezek33. In 7957 verses of the Bible nowhere does it say make idols of Mary or the Saints. You choose to do so at your own will. If the Bible was a Law Book you would be in jail for eternity. He is The Way The Truth & The Life! What did God say to Abraham about idols. "Take them Out"
@@johnnyd2383 Of course you do not know my God. John 1v1 if you just understood that one verse you would not have invented Mariology in the 6th century. All praise to Jesus. You practice false gods that's why your priests can't keep it in their pants. The dead spirits run riot in your churches on young boys & nuns. You know the god of soddomy, false worship, man praising men. Does God tell your priests to rape boys??? Your Church is God, my apologies.
The oldest existing record of the use of the term "Catholic church" dates back to around AD 110, in a letter from St. Ignatius. There was only the Catholic church until the schism of 1054. At that point, the Eastern churches that broke away began to be known as the Orthodox churches. So the Catholic church was first, but the term Roman Catholic didn't come about until around the 1200s and didn't enter common use until around the 1500s.
There is not exactly someone first or second.. before the Great Schism of 1054 the Church was governed by the Heads/Patriarchs of the five major episcopal sees. Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem. These Patriarchates and their Patriarchs were equal, and the one of Rome was honorably "first among equals" (Patriarch of Constantinople nowadays). They used to decide all together everything about Church through Councils. In reality the all thing was like the Orthodox Church works today. But after the schism between Rome and the other 4 (for many reasons..) the differentiation started. The word Orthodoxy have the meaning in Greek of the "right faith", in order to be distinguished from the Church of Rome. The Eastern Orthodox Church claims that is the true One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church of God. As you can understand, (almost) until 1054 the Church (even the one of Rome) was like the Orthodox today. After 1054 Rome (and the West) took a different path and the other 4 Patriarchates (and the East) stayed and continued in the old path. Later new Patriarchates were created with the christianisation of Slavs, Russians etc.
The Orthodox Church also calls itself Catholic ... it simply means 'Universal' as the Church should be. They two churches are exactly as old as each other. It was one church until the schism at which point both came to be. The question is really which of the two is closer to the original church...
Icons aren’t just pictures, I see this was 2 years ago I hope you have found your way to orthodoxy and gotten past the surface level struggles you were having . God bless
Wouldn’t it be a problem if the prayers going to mary , don’t actually go to Jesus, as it is not in the scriptures to pray to mary, Abraham interceded directly with God.
All saints are alive in Christ since they are part of His Body, the Church. After all our God "is not the God of the dead, but of the living" [Matthew 22:32]. What the Old Testament forbade was the idolic practice of necromancy. On the contrary honoring the saints through prayers was always the practice of the Church since the very beginning. See for example the earliest known prayer to the Theotokos dating back to ~250 AD: www.oodegr.com/english/ekklisia/oldest_theotokos_prayer.htm The saints not only are part of the Church [Hebrews 12:1] but also they are not indifferent for their brethren who still live in the world [Revelation 6:9-11].
@@orthoglobusI've been bucking against Sola Scripture the past 5 years so that's why I'm discussing this at all. Not trying to be arrogant. This doctrine is one of the few that would keep me from converting to Eastern Orthodoxy. This is such a huge component of it and I don't see any warrant for believing that dead people hear our prayers. Even more importantly, that we even need any mediation apart from Christ who's death procured for us the highest mediation. The idea of levels of mediation is repugnant to my idea of what The Cross accomplished.
@@robertbrown3400 Our prayer to the saints doesn't have the same purpose with our prayer to the Lord; by praying to a saint we simply ask for his/her intercession to God. Prayers to the saints not only do not replace our prayers to the Lord, but rather support them due to the outspokenness the saints have in front of God. In the Bible we see many times that God offers his mercy to sinful people just for the sake of saints like e.g. Abraham, Moses, David, etc. The message I want to give you with the above is that honoring the saints through prayers is not an innovation that someone simply thought, but the 2000-year living experience of the Church, through which God delivers us His Grace, often with signs and wonders.
I know that praying to Mary is not biblical, but praying THROUGH Mary and other saints, I am still undecided, as Jesus is the only mediator, and talking to the dead is necromancy and forbidden, but the saints do pray to God for the world in Heaven. So it is difficult to really call this a false doctrine.
Abraham was prayed to in the Old Testament. Ancient Israelites regularly venerated the tombs of their prophets. Prayer isn't worship, praying to isn't worshipping; this is the problem with Western Christians, they conflate prayer and veneration with worship because they've all but abandoned the large vocabulary of ancient Christianity. Words like adoration and veneration aren't even on their radar.
To set out the important point first, is that Mary is not at all in competition with the Lord since she is not God. And we don't "pray" to Mary the same way we pray to God as if they are equal, but that we pray (simply means, to make a request) to Mary and the Saints for their prayers for us to the Lord our God. Asking the Saints who art in Heaven is simply the same thing as you would asking your brothers and sisters in Christ to pray for us. There is no idolatry nor contradiction there, and the Church of God has always been honoring Mary and the Saints throughout the ages.
ENiGMA Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life it is by listenning to him and doing Gods commands we find the path to God. Mary and all the people of that time are all dead, we ask people that are alive to pray for us which is good, more things are wrought by prayer than this world dreams of but we can not use dead people to pray for us. Jesus told us how to pray directly to God but the churches wont allow this, remember years ago what would happen to people if anyone was caught reading the BIBLE on their own they were punished. Jesus did not die for us, HE LIVED for us bringing us the way to GOD. This is why the church has chosen someone else to be a mediator but it states very clearly the following there is no need to say ah yes it depends how you interperate it there is no other way. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ 1Timothy 2: 5
ENiGMA | "Mediator" does not mean intercessory. It means middle-man. "One mediator between God and man" does not mean Christ interceeds on behalf of mankind to God the Father. It means Christ is the only one, of the Three Persons of the Holy Trinity, and of Humanity, that is both God and man, simultaneously. Christ is Almighty God who sits on the Throne of Judgement. He does not intercede, He is interceded to.
@@testtickles8755 Hebrews 11:1-12:1 finishes "Seeing we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses [in other words, the heroes and martyrs of the faith from ages past], let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us." Thus, the heroes and martyrs are a good example for us, and surround us like spectators at a running race - therefore, obviously, they know about us and can see our struggles from heaven. James 5:16-18: 'The prayer of the good man has powerful effect." In other words, the most powerful intercessors in the Church are those most advanced in holiness. And who is more advanced in holiness than a soul who is already fully sanctified and in heaven? Revelation 5:8; 8:3-4: "In heaven the elders and angels offer up the prayers of the saints [on earth] as incense before the throne of God."
Very well explained. I have a question: why would we need to heap praises on somebody else aside from the One who came down to be beaten, flogged, berated, and ultimately nailed to a wooden cross so we can be freed from the penalty of sin (death), and later enjoy an eternal and purely joyful existence that none (including Mary) of us deserve?
@@Theoria they are not our servants for we are but fellow servants. That kind of praise comes only from the master in recognition of a faithful servant. The praise that we offer up in our prayers are supposed to be reserved for God and Jesus Christ alone.
Someone we can TALK to? The Bible forbids communication with the dead (meaning people who’s physical bodies have expired and their souls are in an eternal realm). The only way one could get around this is to proclaim that Mary was divine and is a God and not human. Someone who you can ASK, to ask the Lord for something for us? Jesus said to pray to the Father in Jesus’s Name. The Bible says there is no mediator between God and man except the man Christ Jesus. The first thing said in this video...we don’t pray to Mary. The last thing said in this video ...”That’s why our prayers TO HER...” I am not saying that Orthodox people aren’t Christians. Far from it. I just know that it should be ok to have a frank back and forth discussion, peacefully so. Blessings! I know you guys think using the Bible as a final authority on doctrinal matters is not acceptable, so I’m sure my mentioning of scriptures above is not relevant to you. Again, I’m not meaning to be disrespectful, but only to have a discussion. I’m just stating the facts. I do consider Orthodox Christians to be my brothers in sisters in Christ. I’m just not sure they return the consideration.
If it is true that "the dead" include the saints who are living in Heaven, then why does Hebrews 12:21-23 say that those who are in Christ *have come* to the spirits of just men made perfect? From your comments about Jesus directing us to pray to the Father, I imagine that when somebody asks you to pray for them, you respond, "How dare you ask me to pray for you? Pray to God the Father through Jesus Christ yourself!" The Scriptures are not to the only or final authority, but that doesn't mean they are irrelevant to us. They are God-breathed and profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness.
@@tryingnottobeasmartass757 thank you for your cordiality. Respectfully, I don’t see anything in the Scriptures that tells us that the Word of God is not the only or final authority. That’s where the disagreement of viewpoints begins and ends. It’s ok. We can agree to disagree. 👍🏼
@@lisalmenard3828 I'm going off the top of my head so I don't know the exact verse, however there's a verse in the Bible where one of the Apostles tells someone to hold to the traditions passed along...
Where is your Church I would like to visit. I am Catholic and I am devoted to pray the Mother of God for her intercession. Please respond to my inquiry.
No response in over a year, even after you politely asked for a response. Its actually a good thing that you don't find an Orthodox church to go to though. They'd make you pray to Mary, as if she's omnipresent. Its terrible
while i do recognize the mother of God has a special place in the church. i think in the catholic,Ethiopian orthodox and eastern orthodox churches it's a little more than veneration and in some places worship. if you see the history after chalcedon the catholic and the eastern church become less devoted to Christ and much more devoted to the mother of God. so i think in the case of Catholics, Ethiopian orthodox and eastern orthodox churches(with or without knowing it) what they have for the blessed virgin is worship without question. and the question is, the early father recognized intercession and adding prayers to the virgin Mary was a good way to fight heresies but after Arius and Nestorius it just continued as worship. I pray to the virgin Mary as long as pray to Jesus. but all my prayers are dogmatic and asking for intercession and of course praises too but i know that they are not worship when you go to the eastern churches there are verses which you can not prove dogmatically. (i didn't want to mention lines from the Catholics and Ethiopians orthodox cause even the eastern agree Catholics worship the virgin and what the Ethiopians believe is a little bit worse). but i think when you go to Coptic and Syriac orthodox churches veneration and worship has it's own place. p.s am not Coptic nor Syrian orthodox i just think all their views on the Theotokos is right. May the holy mother of God be with you all.
Lord Jesus Christ's teaching did cover the most important things for our salvation but it couldn't cover of course any possible aspect of our spiritual life, especially since those who heared Him had not received the Grace of the Holy Spirit yet [John 7:39]. That's why He also mentioned "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now" [John 6:12]. One of such aspects is also the honour payed to of saints is an ancient custom of the Church as can be seen even from archaeological evidence: www.oodegr.com/english/ekklisia/oldest_theotokos_prayer.htm
You can pray to Mary all you want but she won't hear you. She's not omnipresent. She would be sick to her stomach if she ever found out that you do pray to her. We don't need to ask the departed (they can't hear us anyway) to put in a good word for us, God sees all and is in his very nature: love. Its obvious you don't know Him or His love
We respect her do you really think an ordinary woman would be holy enough to be mother of God? We respect her not worship her. Read into it a bit. If you love God you will acknowledge his mother.
@Martina Todorovic You’re telling me to read into it. I have. Have you? “As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.” He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”” Luke 11:27-28 Our Lord had a great opportunity to offer Mary the adoration that you give her, but he doesn’t. I’d rather hear his word and obey Him, not a man made tradition
@Martina Todorovic in orthodox tradition she’s recognised as “Παναγία” “the greatest of all saints”. It’s ironic that you mention John the Baptist, because the Lord said that he is “the greatest born among women” “Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.” Matthew 11:11 If anyone should be called “Παναγία” or in the masculine “Πανάγιος”, it should be John the Baptist. This is yet another disregard of God’s word.
@@artvanderlay1308 Well you are not reading to the very end of the verse: "yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." So to say that Mother Mary is Panagia is not in contradiction to the Lord's words. What you do not understand is position and role Mother Mary has had in The Church in the times between Lord's Ascension and her Dormition - period of 15 years. What level of respect apostolic fathers had towards her is witnessed in writings and that can be read today. St. Ignatius of Antioch - apostolic father in his epistle to St. John the Apostle says: "But Salome also, [the daughter of Anna,] whom thou lovest, who stayed with her five months at Jerusalem, and some other well-known persons, relate that she is full of all graces and all virtues, after the manner of a virgin, fruitful in virtue and grace. And, as they report, she is cheerful in persecutions and afflictions, free from murmuring in the midst of penury and want, grateful to those that injure her, and rejoices when exposed to troubles: she sympathizes with the wretched and the afflicted as sharing in their afflictions, and is not slow to come to their assistance. Moreover, she shines forth gloriously as contending in the fight of faith against the pernicious conflicts of vicious principles or conduct. She is the lady of our new religion and repentance, and the handmaid among the faithful of all works of piety. She is indeed devoted to the humble, and she humbles herself more devotedly than the devoted, and is wonderfully magnified by all, while at the same time she suffers detraction from the Scribes and Pharisees. Besides these points, many relate to us numerous other things regarding her. We do not, however, go so far as to believe all in every particular; nor do we mention such to thee. But, as we are informed by those who are worthy of credit, there is in Mary the mother of Jesus an angelic purity of nature allied with the nature of humanity." Source: www.ccel.org/ccel/ignatius_antioch/epistles_of_ignatius/anf01.v.xx.i.html
It's a shame, protestants brothers deny That One who accompanied The Son of God as He was in flesh among us, and say that the had dozens of sons and daughters. We never heard any genealogy of Jesus's family. As an Orthodox Christian I hope to die with a such consideration that Mary was given as Our Mother by Jesus. Francisco A . Pereira.
If orthodoxy are wrong and prayers to mary don’t get acknowledged by Jesus, isn’t there a danger of the person praying to Mary , falling away because their prayer goes unanswered, surely it is safer to pray to God through Jesus only if there is any risk at all to someone’s salvation, wanting to be right and being too ashamed to change a doctrine that is not Biblical because of pride, makes no sense to me.
I disagree with praying to anything other than G-d. I do not remember Jesus praying to anything but G-d. Actually, when Jesus gave example of how to pray, it starts "Our Father, who is in heaven...". Even if you do not say "in Jesus" or whatever stuff, G-d is G-d. Besides, if Jesus is God, why not just pray to G-d and avoid the ambiguity or potential issues?
Kane Kreed | Please. A prayer of thanksgiving is not the definition of "worship", it is the Sacrements and the Ceremonies surrounding the Sacrements, such as the Holy Liturgy and the Vespers. Everything is Biblical. Luke 1: 26-45, Luke 11: 27, Luke 1: 48, Psalm 45: 17-31, Isaiah 60: 14.
Kane Kreed - have you ever asked a dear friend or family member to pray for you? If you have then you can also ask the Holy Blessed Theotokos to pray for you as well, or any of the Saints for that matter. Christ also instructed us to " pray for one another"
TRY READING THE BIBLE: Luke 11 27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!” But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” Even Jesus took Mary and qualified her, "Being Blessed" to a LOWER LEVEL than all those who hear God's words and obey. Your are worshiping another god and it is worthy of hell's fire.
While I believe in the Holy Orthodox Church, you raise a valid point. It gets complicated though because to take the Protestant position would be to assume that the church did not exist for like fifteen hundred years? And I can also use the Bible to demonstrate that the apostles passed along tradition other than the Bible and that we're supposed to be one Church. And then when you look at the mess that has become of protestantism, with there being literally 10s of thousands denominations, offshoots and sects, the situation gets even more complicated. And now, today, I can also see the wisdom in the great "schism" between the Orthodox and Roman Catholicism -- just look at the catastrophe that having an "infallible" pope and unmarried priests has brought about? The situation is...complicated. None of this can be reduced to a simplified answer such as "you're wrong and going to hell"... none of us really know what's happening. But then to add a plot twist, the Bible says that God is not the author of confusion... and yet the current state of Christianity is incredibly confusing.
We always read this on any feast of the Theotokos. It calls to mind, why is the Virgin Mary blessed? Not just by blood, but because she offered herself to God and became the tabernacle of the new covenant. The words “blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it” perfectly apply to her! She heard the word of God and kept it, you can read the story of the annunciation in Luke’s own gospel.
You have one mediator and that is Jesus Christ. You want to ask someone to pray for you and ask father God to help you in any area pray to Jesus. No where in the Bible is it ok to pray to dead saints. Look at Saul when he tried to pray to the prophet Samuel it wasn’t ok
Speaking to the dead is detestable to God. Jesus said I am the only way the truth and the life no one comes to the father is except through me. It's pretty clear that the dead can't intervene with God for you.
I see no evidence the cloud of witnesses are to be prayed to. No evidence of Mary having a role with living human Christians. Last we hear of Mary is with the other women going to the Tomb. Show me textually where I am mistaken. Shalom
Umm no, Deuteronomy 18:10-12 "10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass[a] through the fire, or onewho practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 12 For all who do these things are [b]an abomination to the Lord, and because of these abominations the Lord your God drives them out from before you."...Mary's dead, Saints are Dead/passed over. I believe It's somewhat demonic to do so.
All saints are alive in Christ since they are part of His Body, the Church. After all our God "is not the God of the dead, but of the living" [Matthew 22:32]. What the Old Testament forbade was the idolic practice of necromancy. On the contrary honoring the saints through prayers was always the practice of the Church since the very beginning. See for example the earliest known prayer to the Theotokos dating back to ~250 AD: www.oodegr.com/english/ekklisia/oldest_theotokos_prayer.htm
And the angels of the lord said “blessed are you and blessed is the fruit of thy womb”. We venerate our blessed mother and she intercedes on our behalf. Every sermon she is venerated so many times that as Orthodox christian’s we have lost the message of salvation. We have drowned out the word of Jesus Christ. Christ clearly told us that The Holy Spirit will guide us and dwell within us. It’s unfortunate that in our modern day scripture we worship people in power and the mother Mary. She is a saint beyond saints and she is blessed but the message has been corrupted. It’s as if we have transformed her into a metaphysical been with a multidimensional form beyond veneration.Salvation is God’s instrument Love and the meaning of salvation is bringing us in communion with God. Instead we have transformed salvation into a prayer through “The Mother Of God”. Perhaps since we are so screwed in our belief we can say since she is the mother of God she originated before God himself.
Mary is comforting but Jesus is not? Since Mary is not divine, she cannot hear anyone unless the speaker is literally in her presence. Mary, as a faithful Jew, would be horrified in how the Roman and Greek Gentile churches treat her.
You’re very silly. Mary heard our prayers and has appeared to many Faithful Orthodox Christians throughout the centuries. She is not horrified, but delighted. Theotokos save us!
@@MrWesford No, she didn't and even if she did she cannot do anything. Only Jesus is the God bearer. Mary was a sinner just you and me. As a good Jew, she would be horrified at the gentiles.
We Orthodox still love our Catholic younger brothers & sisters who left our Church centuries before because of the confusion in opinion about Nicene Creed. Innu Keralathil Malankara Orthodox Syrian Sabha yekkurich kallangal pracharippikkaatha munne munnu Sabhakale ullu: 1. Knanaya Sabha 2. Chaldean Syrian Church of the East in Trissur (Metropolitan Province of Assyrian Church of the East in Iraq) 3. CSI Sabha Ippo varum oru vashathu kude nanmayude nirakudam chamanj maruvashathu kude ente commentsinu thazhe Asabya vakkukal upayogichukondum ennnekkurichum Malankara Orthodox Syrian Sabha yekkurichum kallu vacha nunakal pracharippichukondum sthiram themmaaditharavumayi Herald of Truth enna UA-cam nameil Herald of Lies umayi oru Syro Malabar Catholic Pakal Manyan. SATHYAMEVA JAYATHE
Praying to Mary & the Saints is unbiblical! There's a difference between asking family or church friends to pray for you, (which by the way doesn't mean that those people you've asked to pray have more power or authority than you, but that if more people join in, more petitions are heard at the throne of God) and there's a difference with speaking to dead people! Jesus is both Mediator & Intercessor. If Jesus is sufficient for both those roles then why do we need to pray to Mary or one of the saints, who by the way, are dead! By praying To them, we are taking the attributes of God and placing them on mere humans! If the word of God tells us to come to Him directly, then why do we need to pray to anyone else??? Take a look at the following scriptural references: Romans 8:34 [34]Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes INTERCESSION for us. Hebrews 4:14-16 [14]Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. [15]For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. [16]Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. 1 Timothy 2:5 [5]For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, Acts 4:12 [12]Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” Jeremiah 29:12-13 Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. Jeremiah 33:3 Call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know.
Praying to the dead is common in the Bible the Protestants just threw those books out because it was inconvenient for their agenda during the reformation
@InnocentAlaska Those books you claim were pulled out of the Bible were never considered inspired Scripture by the early Jewish community in the first place. If anyone knows the Old Testament scriptures, it's the Jews to whom, as Paul says, were the recipients Of the Oracles of God! Romans 3:1-2 [1]What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? [2]Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. THE SCRIPTURES! The early Jewish historian Josephus, rejected the Apocrypha, stating it was to some degree essential historical writings from 400bc onwards, but since the last Prophet Malachi was written around 500bc, it was therefore considered by all the Jewish community as non canonical and uninspired, since there were no prophets during the time of the writing of these books. Although the Latin Vulgate included it, Jerome place them in a separate section as non canonical and uninspired and not to be used for doctrinal purposes. Even early church fathers such as Origen, Cyral of Jerusalem & Athanasius rejected them as inspired Scripture! It was only made officially Canonical and Inspired by the Catholic Church in 1546, as a reaction to the Reformation to justify certain doctrines that were contradictory to scripture in the first place. The Catholic Church never universally agreed on these books as being inspired Scripture until this date! Which as far as any Christian is concerned, should raise eyebrows. The Apocrypha also includes several historical errors. I'm gonna give you one example and leave several links below explaining as to why I believe the Apocrypha is not inspired Scripture. One of the errors is from 'Judith 1:5', which mentions that Nebuchadnezzar was the King of Assyria, yet we know from history & the other Scriptures that he was he was the king of Babylon. Why would writings if they were inspired by God have significant errors like this? Here are the links: carm.org/roman-catholicism/errors-in-the-apocrypha/ crossexamined.org/why-the-apocrypha-isnt-in-the-bible/ carm.org/roman-catholicism/reasons-why-the-apocrypha-does-not-belong-in-the-bible/
You are roaming around and posting very same slurs whenever video speaks about Orthodox devotion to the Saints. Devil is not leaving you alone... definitely. He is riding you...
@johnnyd2383 What part of anything I said is a slur, which passage of scripture I shared was incorrect? It's incredible that you don't have anything biblically constructive to say, no evidence whatsoever to support your position, and that is precisely why you hurl labels & accusations on people because you don't have anything informative to say! It's become abundantly clear that, your faith is not in Christ, nor His Word but in a religious system that has changed over time and added teachings & dogmas that were not never their in the first place. If you actually read what I had originally written carefully, you would never have responded in the first place, that's because you don't care about scripture nor early church history, you only care for your beloved Religion. Note: I was born into a Greek Orthodox family, when I started reading the scriptures decades ago I realized that so much of the dogmas & teaching were never their in the early church.
Mary has no role in any Church anymore, reading the Bible will explain how we are saved, start by reading these few verses, Luke 8:19 “Then came to him his mother and his brethren, and could not come at him for the press.” Luke 8:20 “And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.” Luke 8:21 “And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.” If you don’t understand that you need to be Abrahams seed, start reading the Bible every chance possible( preferably the KJV Standed version). And ask Jesus for understanding before reading. Proverbs 3:6 “In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.” Galatians 3:29 “And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.” You can give away everything you have , and still not be saved, 1 Corinthians 13:3 “And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.”
![The Perpetual Virginity of Mary [Why I Changed My Mind]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DfgKAUlbWMI/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Perpetual Virginity of Mary [Why I Changed My Mind]](/img/tr.png)
Mary was and is so close with Jesus like no one of us ever would be, because she was His earthly mother. I can even imagine close enough how it feels to be pregnant with God, and then raised Him up! no mentioning her mother's heart watching Him on Calvary! And there is communion of saints so on earth as it is in Heaven! And if we are part of God's Church here we also are part of this communion! And I am speaking as an enlightened evangelical...by the Grace of God!
All of us who enter heaven will be as close to Jesus as Mary is. The saints are US, the believers, not a special invented class.
You don't know Jesus if you think Mary is closer to him than you as a saved child. Jesus died to cover her sin just like he died to cover yours. In the kingdom, you are her equal.
@@The.Alabama.Woodsman I don’t get it. Protestants make sure to honor mothers, earthly mothers yet the mother of Christ himself is neglected, cast aside, treated with indifference. Mary is the Theotokos, she is the God bearer. She isn’t just the mother of his human nature but of his divine nature as well. She is not worshipped, but she is honored.
@@akiram6609 "mother of His DIVINE NATURE"
Do you what it means? It means that GOD has mother. God, He as a DIVINE NATURE has a beginning.
If so, that means He is not what he said he was in Revelation 22:13 (KJV) I am Alpha and Omega, THE BEGINNING and the end, THE FIRST and the last.
And the analogy of Melchisedec that the writer of Hebrews refers to would make no sense.
Hebrews 7:3 (KJV) "WITHOUT FATHER, WITHOUT MOTHER, WITHOUT DESCENT, HAVING NEITHER BEGINNING OF DAYS, nor end of life; but MADE LIKE UNTO THE SON OF GOD; abideth a priest continually."
You are stretching it. She is blessed among women because she got to raise Jesus. But that is it. Look at what Jesus himself says when the crowd tells him “ your mother(Mary) and brothers are outside asking for you” what does Jesus say “ he points to those around him saying whoever does the will of the father are my mother and brothers” so that role of being his earthly mother isn’t so special after all. Mary blessed among women and that’s it. You have one mediator and that is Jesus Christ. Pray for help only to Jesus. You should fear doing anything else
In the Book of Revelations, the description of Heavenly worship reveals the Throne of God with the Saints offering interscession at the Altar. There is Praise and Worship. The Archangel Gabriel says that all generations shall call you Blessed (speaking to Mary). We do this, we do on Earth what is being done in Heaven because we are One Body of Christ, not divided. Who was on Mount Tabor with Christ? Not dead people but Moses and Elijah. We Orthodox talk about our Heroes the Saints like some people talk about favorite Sports figures...but the Saints are true Heros!
+Bonnie Johnstne: Best response on here so far! Greetings from a Roman Catholic.
Bonnie Johnstone it's revelation not revelations.
freetruth80 My apologizes for the 's' ...my missionary linguist relatives used to jump on me for any mispronounced words also!
Bonnie Jesus is the ONLY advocate, mediator if you like. Worship the eucharist makes you the worse idolator of all. Jesus showed us how to worship and pray directly to God. Your pope has said differently that it is only through the church one can get salvation. He is deceiving you all. Christ is divine, mary is only human though, but was blessed amoung women. full stop. Good luck though
Vivian thank you for your comment. Glory goes to God, the all knowing One True God. Jesus was and is to come. I was a so called Christian for 50 years but had a grateful oportunity to do research over the last ten years. The apostacy is coming, it has been unbelievable with all that has been happening in the roman catholic church that it has taken so long. Portugal will stay strong believers but all the other countries will loose faith , not in God but in the church. This needs to happen. All you Christians in the catholic church get OUT of her. God Bless
I was raised protestant, but always found the catholic and the orthodox churches really fascinating. The imagery makes the whole experience so much more immersive and intense.
This is known as idolatry
@@nightshade99yaaaaa no.
@@thewheyoflife3548 Yes
@@nightshade99 Ave Maria, heretic.
@@revelation20232 Yes, worshipping Mary makes you a heretic.
As a cradle Catholic, I have a very strong devotion to the Blessed Mother. She brought me back to the church after a long time away. I just recently attended a Byzantine Catholic service and marveled at the the hymns to Mary. "You, truly the Mother of God, we magnify." Beautiful! It seems to me that Eastern Catholics and the Orthodox church have never wavered in their devotion to Mary, where I feel the Roman Catholics did for a time following Vatican II. It always saddens me to see the hostility toward her. When we magnify her, we also magnify her son. It's not a competition! We honor her above all other creatures for saying yes to God and the angel Gabriel and bringing our savior into the world!
Well. Time to come home to Orthodoxy!
Wagon Wheel update yourself with Church history instead. Commenting blindly just makes you stupid.
Wagon Wheel it doesnt. The Catholic church being in the state of upholding modernism and universalism will of course be wobbly even to their own teachings. The Orthodox church wont however, tolerate any form of heresy. We love the people in the Catholic church, but not the teachings and the heresy taught by the Catholic church
Wagon Wheel Papal infalability, Immaculate conception, Purgatory, indulgences.. etc. All these are not according to the original christian church and is a complete heresy
Are you lost sir? If there is anything that is actually of original teachings from the Apostles to the early Church Fathers and Saints, its the Orthodox Church which is also started by Jesus Christ through His apostles. The Orthodox Church is the one that has kept and preserved the unchanged teachings of the original Christianity ever since 2000 years ago. The Roman Catholic church on the other hand, has changed and "update" their teachings through councils and councils, with invention of doctrines that was never ever there in the beginning, with the obvious recent Vatican II council, which brought huge liturgical changes to suit and cater to protestants, toning down the traditional Latin Mass, abolishing ad orientam, abolishing Latin in line for vernacular, laities holding the consecrated Host, etc.. all of which has never been there in the early Church and such practice is considered to be abominable and great heresy. So tell me again, which church is "Just another protestant church wearing a very fancy dress with bearded man"
You can stay ignorant and comment blindly all you want. But then again, it doesnt make you anymore smarter and right, and especially when you dont even argue validly and just point on vague points with no back up valid supports whatsoever.
We love Virgin Mary a lot!!!! we Ethiopians love Mary and "Ethiopia shall soon stretch out her hands unto God" Ps 68:13
BornAgain happyfriday : Love him alot also!!!! Jesus loves his mother more than any body so we love that Jesus loves.
Jesus is our savior. Jesus is our God. Jesus is what our church is about. Jesus is holy lamb for our sins and our souls. Everything except the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is after them..
Offcourse!! am saying that WE LOVE MARY!! is there any problem with that????
any body didnt tall us that God is the almighty and the only God, and any body can supperim him!!!
Rom 13:7 "fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour"
Please lets focus on our role for the world by refering the saints whos loved by GOD us he say by his appostle Paul "Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God" Heb 13:7
Now a days those who says we are spritual are under securals in moral and etics, any one cant degrading who is honnered by God.
After 2 years of watching these videos I finally found the hymn, in the tone they sing it in at the beginning of the video. Truly so great.
What's it called?
Love you so much Mother Mary
What about Him? Some one saying they love Mary doesn't infer they hate Jesus... Jesus told us to love our neibours and fellow men. So we love Mary, and worship and love Jesus.
smoked ribs For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ 1Timothy 2: 5 This is where the orthodox church and catholic churches are going wrong. Narrow is the path, many will be called but only few will be chosen
Tom Dick The Orthodox Church never deny Christ as our only mediator. To begin with, Mary is able to pray for us precisely because Christ mediates for us. But by your understanding then, dont even ask a person to pray for you then. Since you dont even want the Saints to pray for you and insist that you must pray directly to the Lord alone.
Tom Dick | "Mediator" does not mean intercessory, it means middle-man. The only one who is both God and man is Christ. It means reconciler. The Orthodox do not believe Christ intercedes on behalf of mankind like Arianism teaches. Christ is Almighty God who sits on the Throne of Judgement. He does not intercede, He is interceded to.
kim jong un Mary is dead she is in the tomb, Jesus told us the dead know nothing. Mary does not intercede FULL STOP
Beautiful explanation, thank you I needed this because even if I understood this concept, it was still tough for me so I went to the best place and understand this
The most famous and popular Orthodox Church hymn dedicated to the Blessed Virgin Mary is Agni Parthene aka O Pure Virgin. You'll likely hear this song being played when parishioners are receiving Holy Communion. Sometimes if I play the song, I do it before praying the Holy Rosary.
Having a devotion to the Virgin Mary or known as the Theotokos is nothing to be ashamed of. I have a powerful connection with her as a Catholic.
I was raised Roman Catholic and Mary was always special to me and guided my perception of women and thr importance of all feminine virtues and gifts.
I have admittedly fallen short of honoring her and what she represents to humanity but I have always held her in the highest regard.
This summer I visited the place where I was born and took my children to the church I was baptized in.
To the left side of the altar up front was a statue of Mary.
I knew at that moment that it was a directive from God to live with honor for her and to build a relationship with her. To no longer let the protestant culture I have become a part of cause me to ignore or be silent about her virtues and importance in the world
Ave Maria, ora pro nobis!!
She can't pray for you... pray for yourself. Hebrews 4:16
@@The.Alabama.Woodsman
Cherry picking Bible verses out of context doesn't work.
@@BecomeAnOrthodoxChristian I cherry pick nothing. This is typical of people who see a scripture and cant deal with its truth. My reference of Scripture is in context. Deal with it.
@@The.Alabama.Woodsman Ask yourself this question, why did nobody share that view in the first millenium? Intercession of Saints has been believed since the time of the early Church.
@@BecomeAnOrthodoxChristian Doesn't matter. There were a lot of things during the reformation that today we know better. God said knowledge would increase as His Spirit was poured out. To say Mary can soften Jesus up when I pray is an assault to the deity of Jesus Christ and I personally would call is blasphemous. Mary needed a savior just like me. Where in the Bible do we see the need to pray to Saints. Abraham said to Lazarus.... "They have the law and the scriptures" Please educate me on the biblical foundation of Saint prayers.
Pray for us oh holy Theotokos, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ!😄
She isn't the mother of God!
@@The.Alabama.Woodsman the first few centuries and the scripture would disagree with you
@@The.Alabama.Woodsman Elizabeth called Mary of his Lord! And Jesus is God reincarnate so she is mother of God
@@orthodoxouwatje4632 Blasphemy! Jesus is not a reincarnate of anything. This is utter horse manure generate to make Mary deity. maybe read
Luke 11 27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!” But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” Even Jesus took Mary and qualified her, "Being Blessed" to a LOWER LEVEL than all those who hear God's words and obey. Your are worshiping another god and it is worthy of hell's fire.
@@The.Alabama.Woodsman by reincarnate, i mean he's God but in human form. I didn't understand sht of what you said but just to be clear, i believe in the trinity like every Orthodox, catholic, protestants, anglican and ect
She is like a friend to all of us
Mother, Sister, friend 🙏🏻
Jesus is that friend for me. “A friend that sticks closer than a brother”.
@@TheB1nary Amen
She is my Mother now and I love her ❤️
I love the blessed mother
Bruh have you ever been to an Orthodox service? The whole thing is about Jesus. Literally everything in the faith points to Him
BornAgain happyfriday , Jesus is the center of worship. He is the Saviour and Redeemer.
Also , it might be wise to read the specific video title. This video in under 3 minutes is addressing the Blessed Mother of Jesus.
If you truly wish to obtain the overall tradition to the church, as opposed to criticizing something you may not fully grasp in 3 minutes on a specific subject, Our Lord Jesus Christ's Mother, there are numerous, numerous videos available. As well as any parish will gladly answer your inquiries. God Bless you, Christ is Risen.
BornAgain happyfriday , Well, no one is WORSHIPING Mary at all; or THEY should not be. Mary is paid reverence as the Virgin Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ. As you well know it is mentioned all generations shall call her "Blessed". Mary's cousin Elizabeth, the Mother of " John the Baptist" is mentioned as feeling " her child "leap" in her womb" at being in the presence of Mary. She further expands on this feeling as " not being worthy"to be in the presence of the Mother of her Lord" . The Lord Jesus Christ as we all Christians should understand could have chosen ANY way we could or could not possibly imagine ,to bring to the World his incarnation. He did not have to choose to become a human. He could have shown himself in all Glory, in such away that our human minds could hardly grasp at the infinite possibilities.
However in his grace and infinite wisdom, he chose to become incarnate IN HIS OWN CREATION. He created humankind. He chose to manifest his creations' salvation as a human being. With an ordinary( by financial,social and other coordinating data) mother and father. He was a Jew. A Jew that released the Jews from the Mosaic tradition and law upon his RESURRECTION. Prior to his Passion and ressurection he adhered to the instructions of law , clearly, more than any human could have hoped to. One of the most important of those laws, as gentiles we are generally only familiar with the 10 commandments, is to obey( and or honor, with out questions) thy Father and thy Mother. He followed that law and all others ( excluding, in his infinite wisdom, for instance healing on the Sabbath) to the minutia or smallest degree.
The point being- if you deny the importance of Jesus Christ's choices of whom he should have , out of the entire human race, created each and all singly by him in the fullness of , God the Father,the Son and, the Holy Spirit, you deny Christ in his self willed creation as God become Man through the intercession of the Holy Spirit overshadowing Mary, the Virgin betrothed to Joseph , the importance of her gift. Her agreement to the Angel Gabriel, " Let it be done,according to HIS WILL".
Our Lord, ( and this is a pivotal point) allowed Mary to use her gift of freewill. She did not have to. She chose to participate in an amazingly wonderful as well as deeply sorrowful life.
Proceeding from this background information forward to another related subject. I believe this is a crux that unnecessarily adds a division amongst Christians of many backgrounds . The understanding of " pray".
I genuinely, truly understand the significance and, difficulty surrounding this idea. I was raised Southern, conservative, strict Baptist. That is about theologically different,from Orthodoxy or Catholicism within the Christian faith as you can get.
When I and the majority( as I understand it) of Catholics, Anglicans, Orthodox Catholics etc. " pray" to Or what it correctly SHOULD BE translated as "Pray with" or in Communion with , The Blessed Mary, Mother of Jesus Christ as " True God, True man" , Saints of the bygone era of Christianity , or those within the Beatific vision of Heaven , Guardian Angels, etc. etc. . We or I , are not praying To tbem, but asking in " the name of Jesus Christ our Lord" whom is the only needed intermediary between His creation of humanity and himself as within the fulfillment of the triune God, to join us in communion of the Saints,Choirs of the Angels, specific Sainted Persons known for a specific suffering or miraculous event granted by Christ , to pray with us.
All Glory, ALL goes to God. I do not in any way , believe, acknowledgement of the Blessed Virgin Mary as a significant , wholly worthy creation of God, chosen to be his earthly representitive, caretaker,TEACHER,MOTHER,etc is wrong.
I also and, I guess this may be sticking point, that the Saints ( wether Canonized, or Holy Souls in Heaven )are dead. It states during Christ's transfiguration on the Mount he is with Elijah and Moses( Matthew 17). If Jesus is conversing with them , they are not dead. They are a part of the church eternal. As well Hebrews, 12:1 further mentions that " those who have gone before us, witness what is taking place on earth" . If you desire , there are other passages that speak in a similar view.
I can not deny that abuses of this communion between earthbound and the souls of heaven occur. If ANY created being, dead or alive is in direct competition with God Almighty , set such aside as it is not of the will of the Lord Jesus Christ.
I.hope this may shed some light on the question.
God Bless and keep you .
BornAgain happyfriday , Well, not worship, we've and I'm sure others, have said it's not worship of Mary or any other Saint, etc. Only the Trinity is worthy of worship.
Why acknowledge Mary ? I gather that's what your getting at. She is worthy . Our God , the Father,Son,Holy Spirit, Triune,created Mary soley so that Jesus Christ could be created in the flesh. She was created to be the Mother of God in the flesh. Of all time, there (according to scripture) will be only one incarnation of God in the flesh. It was announced to her by an archangel, she had been chosen by God to be the Ark of the new Covenant . She said " Let it be done", giving consent, was then overshadowed by the Holy Spirit and our Emmanuel started to grow as human child in his mother's womb . Mary loved,held,fed,bathed,taught got up at 3 am for feedings, protected, etc. OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. She spent more time with him than anyone else. She loved him, not only as his Mother, knowing the unbounded treasure of not just having a beautiful, healthy, intelligent child. He Was GOD. At his presentation at the temple the first forewarning was given to her of not only his Majesty but that "her heart would be pierced" . Scripture does not elaborate a great deal on the first 30 years of Jesus Christ's life. But genuinely, put aside any preconceived notions about ,well anything negative, put yourself in Nazareth with Jesus Christ as a child or young person. Think on their family.I think that Mary was not your every day mere girl, she holds a significant
importance. She is worthy of recognition, a model of the ideal of a woman. It's in the 10 commandments that Christians follow( as opposed to the hundreds related to Old Law that Jesus Christ abolished), that your parents are to be honored , so if Jesus Christ honors her ,so will I.
I'm going to assume you know your scripture or can pick it up and research if you choose.Mary is specifically mentioned" She is to be Blessed for all generations,for all time". Part of her conversation with Elizabeth, who was in Old age and miraculously by God's grace was pregnant with John the Baptist. Mary was with her son the King of Kings , Creator and Saviour of all, at the foot of the cross when was horrificly crucified. She was with him at Pentacost and received the Blessing of the Holy Spirit in tongues of fire.
I understand some hesitancy from a Non Catholic background in dealing with ,what may appear, to be an inordinate amount of attention to Mary. I wrote a long post earlier to you so there is no need to insult you with repeating what is already written. You can,easily research the Protestant ,Catholic disagreement concerning Mary the Mother of Jesus Christ. If you genuinely wish to understand, or bolster your own argument , debate, etc. You can. As well, we are Christians . With the unholy , overwhelming influence of Paganism, Islam, Atheism, outright Satanism. general Apathy and laziness covering the laity , I think we should try to understand each other of our flocks instead of fostering division. Divided we fall. Division is Evils greatest gift and we unknowingly hand that over every day .
May God Bless and keep you.
BornAgain happyfriday , you forgot the Holy Spirit, it's a Trinity. Besides I agreed all worship a lone goes to The Father,Son,and Holy Spirit.
Thanks for clearing things up on this issue. Any book recommendations for New converts?
Mary is a comforting presence indeed. She's a mother and she experienced heartbreaking grief as we humans do. Protestants have lost this key element and our beautiful Art which inspired us.
Help. I’m a Protestant considering Orthodoxy. But I’m confused. Some say we aren’t praying to Mary, but communing with her. Others say we pray to Mary, even asking for healing or other things. Vespers seems to have prayers to Mary. But isn’t praying to the dead supposed to be prayers to God alone? I’m confused and trying to understand. This is my one big hang up right now.
Get free from the protestant nonsense
We PRAY TO THE SAINTS ...THAT MEANS WE ASK THEM TO PRAY FOR US. To intercede for us.
I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding in our approach. As Orthodox Christians, we don't see any of the saints or Mary for that matter as being dead. Rather, they are departed from this life but still alive in Christ. Remember, He is the vine and we are the branches (John 15:5-6). So it isn't a question of should we pray to God or the holy people of the Church. We pray to God alone and ask the saints to pray for us in the same way we ask our friends to pray for us. Because again, the saints are not dead, they have simply left this life and are awaiting the return of Our Lord. Also remember that God is the God of the living, not the dead (Matthew 22:32). Eternal life in Christ Jesus is what we are all striving towards, so how could those who have gone before us not be alive in Christ Jesus?
@Learningeasternorthodoxy
All christians who are not protestant pray the Virgin Mary, the Angels and the Saints and mostly the monks, It's our traditions.... 2000 years of christian traditions
Also, if you don’t venerate the ikons you will be condemned to hell.
So nice..... Love from a Catholic
Thank God for that
I am a life long Protestant and you stated exactly what what concerns us in your own words at 2:44; you said, "our prayers to her". Language like that, and language does matter, is why I'm hesitant to go to one of my local Orthodox Churches despite my growing curiosity.
I came to the video hoping that this would provide clarification and allay my fears, now they are only heightened.
Prayer means asking. Since they are departed, with the Lord, in perfect union and glory with Him, the way we ask them for their prayers is, of course, through prayer.
Prayer ≠ worship
John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
There's also Luke 11:27-28
@@Naturecraft645 Yes. Christ is the only gateway. I hold The Blessed Mary in high reguard/respect. Father God chose her to carry our Messiah/Savior Jesus Christ. Blessed Mary had Unique/Holy qualities that no other woman had. I don't think we are to pray to her or saints tho.😔
I'm a protestant, and for awhile now I've been interested in Orthodox Christianity. In the video she mentions that praying the Mary (and I'm assuming the saints as well) enhances your relationship with God. I don't really understand that way of thinking, could someone explain that to me? I'm honestly interested to know.
It's fine to be interested. But don't go that route. Nowhere in the bible does it say to pray to Mary. Stick to sola scriptora not the traditions of man
@@ShruteFarms001 The bible was put together 400 years after Christ. By not venerating Saints you ignore 400 years of traditions passed down from the Apostles themselves.
Our Lord prayed that we be the one just as They (Holy Trinity) are One. We can not separate Church Triumphant from Church Militant and call ourselves one. Through our unity we draw closer to God and we fulfill His desire/commandment to us.
Don’t be deceived by these people, they don’t know Christ, it’s as simple as that
@@artvanderlay1308 ... because you said so.! What an authority you are... ts... ts.. ts...
My Church is NOT designed to make Protestants comfortable. Blessed Mother pray for us! ☦️🙏
I never EVER in Catholicism bought into anything about Mary, even after coming around to the idea of intercessors, but it was only when discerning Orthodoxy that the beauty of the Theotokos began to illuminate itself and Mary became someone I revered. This lady in the video is surely an icon of the Lord and an example of how Mary herself must be. I hope one day I am saved from the Catholic darkness and become Orthodox.
My question is, how can you ask her to pray for you or how do you feel comforted in her presence. When she isn’t omnipresent. How can she. I thought only God was omnipresent
Love you blessed mother
*Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad. Kings' daughters were among thy honorable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir. Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house; so shall the King greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him. And the daughter of Tyre shall be there with a gift; even the rich among the people shall entreat thy favor. The King's daughter is all glorious within: her clothing is of wrought gold. She shall be brought unto the King in raiment of needlework: the virgins her companions that follow her shall be brought unto thee. With gladness and rejoicing shall they be brought: they shall enter into the King's palace. Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children, whom thou mayest make princes in all the earth. I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever and ever.* - _Psalm 44 (45):6-17_
King and Prophet David, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, foreshadowed the Virgin Mary here. The psalmist illustrates some of her theological titles, metaphysical/spiritual roles and even some later prophesies of her myrrh streaming icons and holy vessels.
She is considered God's throne and ladder, the means by which God came down to save us. Her garments smell of myrrh aloes, just like all the miraculous streaming relics throughout the ages. She is called daughter by David, since she is his descendant. David says the King will desire her beauty, her pure heart and blessed sacrificial life. Daughters and kings will and have looked up to her emulating this blessed and chaste life.
I like orthodoxy but praying to Mary is why I stay Anglican, we have the icons and the ancient prayers in our prayer book, but without praying to non-divine human saints. Great respect for orthodoxy, but I need more info on this point.
A king of England found your church …
What country are you from? I have seen prayers to the Theotokos in Anglican churches here in the UK
I'm a very recent convert (soon to be catechuman). I convinced my father and my sister to go with me this Sunday to attend a Divine Liturgy, but I fear that they may be disgusted by the adoration of Mother Mary.
It is scary for certain as a new, soon-to-be catechumen. Fear doesn't come from God so dismiss it if possible (talk to the priest of course). But I suppose I'm commenting after they attended with you. May God bless you and them
@@Theoria Thanks for the concern. I've gone to this new Church twice so far. They stayed for an hour the first time, then skipped the rest. And then (the second time) they dropped me off at Church and left. Shame, but I can't force them to do anything.
@@sethl7078 Show them the earliest known prayer to the Theotokos dating back to ~250 AD: www.oodegr.com/english/ekklisia/oldest_theotokos_prayer.htm
Church always honored the saints through prayers the same way the saints are always praying for their brethren who live into this world [Revelation 6:9-11].
@@orthoglobus ay brother, i have a question. I'm a teen and Orthodox, I'm just wondering, is it really needed to pray to the Theotokos? I feel more comfortable praying to Jesus himself.
@@orthodoxouwatje4632 Praying to the Theotokos and the Saints is an indispensable part of Orthodox spiritual life, since with our prayers to them we ask for their intercessions to God.
What you wrote about feeling uncomfortable with praying to the Theotokos reminded me of something St. Paisios of Mount Athos had said once. He said that - contrary to you - he was feeling more comfortable with praying to the Theotokos rather than to Christ, since he was feeling Theotokos Mary like his beloved mother, while he was feeling unworthy while praying directly to Christ!
Nevertheless keep cultivating prayer in all its aspects and prayer itself will teach you the "Orthodox ethos", i.e. Orthodox way of life.
I’m confused - so I’ve heard an Orthodox believer state that the Orthodox do not pray to the Saints, but in this video, this believer says they do pray to the Saints. Which is the truth?
They pray and ask them to intercede for them
Jesus & Mary, I love you. Save souls.
I love you Mother Mary
Rishabh you dont mention your feelings for Jesus, why?
Tom Dick Hi Tom. I love Jesus so much! He is my life... My inspiration ❤️
Amen blessed are the saints.
I always saw The Blessed Mother as more of a grandmother figure teaching us Dad knows best.
The minute I realised that God doesn't exist only in the present, or past, or future, gave way to the question "Could I pray for Moses to have strength as he leads people out of Egypt? God exists then AND now, not then, THEN now. Although I'm unsure on this question specifically, I do now believe the Orthodox concept of the church and saints that still share communion with us, even as their bodies lie.
This is what has made me, a Baptist Protestant come to admire the Orthodox Church in hopes of joining it once COVID control allows us to in Canada.
God Bless the beautiful Orthodox church
Yes you can pray for Moses to have strength as he leads people out of Egypt because God exists simultaneously in the past, present, and future as well as everywhere at the same time. I asked my priest if I could pray for Jesus to have strength when he was in the Garden of Gethsemane, and he said, yes. It's mind boggling, but it's the truth.
Talking to the deceased is called necromancy and is forbidden in Holy Scriptures OF ALMIGHTY GOD, CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE AND EVERYTHING IN IT!
Yep, we Catholics do the same.
Exactly
Hail Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with you...Thank you Holy Mary...Mother of our Savior ,Jesus Christ.
Catholics and our Orthodox got it right when it comes to doctrine about Mary. May be our Churches be united again. For God and the Church.
Most Holy Mother of God, save us.
Heresy 101
Aaron, please understand this is definitely heretical. Believe in the name of Jesus alone to be saved.
@@Gernatch blessed are you among women ect! Luke 1:42
Therefore, all generations shall call me blessed. Luke 1 45
These are parts of the verses
@@Gernatch When a heretic calls something heretical lol
I like this video!! God bless you!! ❤️🎈🙏🏻😇
Thanks for this video
What does asking someone else to pray mean? I don't quite understand the separation and distinction made between asking and praying.
I have a concern or 2.
1. Who us this "cloud of witness " we are talking about ?
2. Can we ask the souls/spirits of the deceased to intercede and pray for us ? Hoe does this work ? And is this biblically sound? Or do we only ask those with us in this life to pray with and for us ?
The cloud of witnesses are The Saints.
Of course we can ask The Saints to pray for us, they’re alive in Christ.
The Church takes precedent over what is biblical, as The Church predates The Bible by some 300 years and produced The Bible. This doesn’t mean that praying to saints contradicts anything in The Bible, but The Bible is not the ultimate Authority, The Church is.
Hi what's that hymn at 2:26 please? Thanks
Its linked in the description
but i still dont understand why go to her when you can just go straight to Jesus?
She is the queen of heaven, she gave birth to god.
i understand now. there is nothing wrong about asking the holy Theotokos for prayers@@InnocentAlaska
where in the Bible does it say to pray to mary?
It says pray for one another, Paul was also asking for prayers of those who were inperfect here on earth
Those who are in heaven are doing that, you can talk to them trough prayer like you would do on the grave of your departed family member with faith they can hear you
They are in Heaven now
As John said they are like Him now, Children of God almighty...
Did you notice Jesus is making us like Him in every possible way ?
It includes prayers for others
Just saying, these aren't just superlatives. There is no exaggeration. Mary is the greatest human to ever live and is beyond compare more glorious than the seraphim. She is above the angels and is closest to Christ. She never sinned by God's grace. We can't describe how holy she was on earth and is in heaven. Important to remember though that Christ is God, and while Mary is pure and holy, she does not compare to God's perfection, and the great wonder she is is all from God's grace and mercy.
Where in the Bible did it say Mary never sinned?
Yunus Ahmed but in all the Bible it did not say that she sinned how can you say that she sinned?
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fell short of the glory of God. The only one without sin was Jesus Christ Himself.
And did you read when Mary and His brothers came to Jesus, and the people said: your mother and brothers are here. What did Jesus reply?
He said: who is my mother and who are my brothers? Those who do my will.
Now why would Jesus put Mary (who I am sure he loved very much) on the same pedestal as any other believer who does His will?
@@tfeya777 These are my questions as well, and I say this as someone who is truly trying to understand the Orthodox point of view.
You can't say her the closest to God as there is no one compared to him. You can't say she didn't sin as the bible said that everyone sinned and that is what made our chirst jesus different while he was living in earth. She is blessed, that we know ,but there is no need to let her take over partially Gods place unknowingly. Just keep worshiping God don't have time for anything else.
Like incense, and prayers song, our Holy Mother of God is an amplifier to God, for us.
That hymn at the end was beautiful, do you know the name?
Unfortunately this same misinterpretation of Mary's role is against the Catholic Church! Protestants simply want to see things narrow, they use too much reason calling it faith! traditional churches are using the Spirit of Revelation and meditation on things!
I understand the belief is she is not without sin, but why sometimes do Orthodox prayers still refer to her as Immaculate?
It all comes down to the difference between the East and the West in terms of the idea of original sin. In the West, one is guilty, even at conception, of sin, and therefore death AND damnation ( look into the theology of "baby limbo"..this has only occurred in the West, where an innocent fetus/infant would be guilty of being sinful.) This idea is foreign in the East....you may be born with an inclination TO sin, like a disease, but you are not guilty of any sins you did not commit. Original sin in the East is that inclination to do wrong in the sight of God, not innate damnation of sins prior to committing them. . In the East, we refer to Mary as Immaculate because she, though within the condition that would cause her to sin, in fact did NOT sin. She was pure on her own accord, though being a mortal born into having still the chronic disease of mortal sin, needed a saviour. In the West, the only way their theology would work is if Mary was in fact immaculate from conception, since that is when they see all people guilty of sin. In the West, yes, an embryo is somehow guilty of sin....we don't believe that at all in the East! Hope this answer helps! God bless-
@@bpowell7999 I was just searching for an answer to a question I had regarding this very thing. I saw a video by a Catholic Friar, where they basically state that Mary would have had to be immaculate from conception, but for that to be true, her mother would have had to be, and on and on. But your explanation here pretty much answers this and I just want to comment to say thank you! You've broken it down in a very helpful way. God bless.
Romans 8:26 says that the Holy Spirit intercedes for us, so why would you pray to dead saints and to Mary and ask them to pray for you and intercede for you when the Bible clearly says that the Holy Spirit intercedes for us ? Also, 1 Timothy 2:5 says there is ONLY ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Mary and the dead saints are NOT our mediators.
As someone who believes that the Orthodox Church is the Original one, I'd like to see this question answered by someone smarter than me?
The Orthodox Church is obviously the oldest and most beautiful when it comes to Aesthetics and liturgy, however I must admit that all of the Mary veneration and icons sometimes makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable.
I'm even beginning to have difficulty understanding the Triune God because a plain reading of the Bible clearly differentiates between Jesus and God.
It seems to me that God would have made all of this more clear?
Whatever the case may be, God knows best.
@@franka2743 here’s a couple of video links to help you see what the Bible says about the Father and Jesus Christ. Also, Roman Catholics also believe their church is the oldest and original church. And the Catholics give historical evidence to back up their claims. I’m not sure who’s right, the Catholics or the Orthodox, but we’re all part of the Body of Christ, so it doesn’t matter which denomination was here first.
@@franka2743 “Jesus is God. These 33 Bible verses prove it in 5 minutes.” ua-cam.com/video/OldNsQLiFBs/v-deo.html
“Where Did Jesus Say, “I Am God, Worship Me “? (David Wood)” ua-cam.com/video/sS-lLTfCI7c/v-deo.html
And How you can explain this verse?
Ephesians 6:18 (KJV)
Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
And you'll see cause in this verse, Saint Paul the Apostle himself write this. And once again, Jesus Promised,
who want to follow Him and be His Disciples, then he will lived again even he's die. Jesus also said to a villain next to Him, and Jesus said
Luke 23:43 (KJV)
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
If you are Protestant thinks we're Orthodox Church Worshipped to Virgin Mary and all of the Saints, you are totally WRONG!
@@TheophilosVavorountos if you actually read Ephesians 6 in its proper context, you’ll see that it was written to people at EPHESUS who were STILL ALIVE, NOT to dead people in heaven. Furthermore, Ephesians 6:12-18 is all about SPIRITUAL WARFARE. No where in Ephesians 6 does it tell us to pray to Mary or the dead saints. Praying in the Spirit in Ephesians 6:18 is the same as praying in the Holy Spirit in Jude 1:20.
When the Bible says that even though he dies, he will live, it’s talking about a person receiving eternal life when they get RESURRECTED at the second coming of Jesus Christ. The Bible says the DEAD in Christ will be raised from the DEAD at Christ’s second coming. Even the Bible recognizes these people are dead. You Catholics and Orthodox love to twist the Scriptures to your own destruction just so you can keep your unbiblical traditions. (2 Peter 3:16 KJV) You’re no different than the Pharisees. The thief on the cross is STILL DEAD. His spirit is with Jesus, but he’s STILL DEAD because he does NOT have a body and he still has NOT been resurrected from the dead yet.
James 2:26 KJV says the body without the spirit is DEAD. And you DO worship Mary. Click on the following video link and see how.
NO WHERE in the Bible does it tell us to pray to Mary or the dead saints. The Apostles NEVER taught prayer to the dead or prayer to Mary.
The video link below is directed towards the Orthodox Church mostly, but also towards Catholics.
I think I am not saying something bad if I say that the Church of Christ is a Church of love and hearts. We love the Holy Mary because she loves Jesus Christ and she loves us as her children because of that. Jesus Christ is union of love.
When you pray to ANY saint you are putting them into competition with the Lord. 1 Timothy 2:5
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”
Paraphrasing Mrs. Green in this video "We don't let Mary take our attention away from God. And also in worship we turn away from God towards Mary." I don't mean this to be rude, nor do I mean to imply you do not know Jesus. But this direct contradiction is what I have so much trouble understanding about the Orthodox church. I don't condemn you in any way, I simply believe in a Christocentric doctrine, and I can't imagine why anybody would want to pray to dead people when Christ Himself dwells in them. I think of the myriad of places scripture tells us the dead are here no more and cannot hear us. I can't separate in my brain Orthodox teachings of this sort from divination. Again, love you all, and trying to understand you and love you more. I am not here to cast the first stone, because I don't have it all together either.
You should attend a Divine Liturgy and talk with a priest
Also, remember that not venerating the ikons will condemn you to hell 😂
Why do Protestants hate Mary?
Antonius Raja | The devil absolutely despises Mary.
Antonius I have never hated anyone, and I dont hate mary BUT I have my views and they are as it states: For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ 1Timothy 2: 5. The path is very narrow, many will be called but only few will be chosen and that is because of your heresy.
I don't think its accurate to say that Protestants hate Mary. However, they do not believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary or the ascension of Mary, nor do they believe in saints.
Don't be afraid to call on Mary, she's your Mother too! "Behold YOUR MOTHER" this is what Jesus told John at the foot of the Cross, and Mary is not dead, she's in heaven body and soul, why would God let the woman who beared him in thy womb for nine months corrupt? Why would the most blessed amongst women corrupt? Why would the Theotokos corrupt? Why would the woman Full of GRACE corrupt? Why would Mary the New Ark of the Covenant corrupt? Isn't Mary the New Ark?:
The Old Ark and Mary has a lot in common:
1. The Old Ark was placed in the Holy of all Holies.
Mary was Full of Grace and was filled with the Holy Spirit
2. The Old Ark contained 3 things:
-The Word of God (10 Commandments)
-The Manna (Bread from heaven)
-The Rod of Aaron
Mary's womb has Jesus who is the:
-Word of God
-Bread from heaven that whoever recieves him shall not hunger again.
-The High Priest with the Iron Rod.
3. David lept before the old ark and said "how can the ark of the Lord ever come to me?"
John the Baptist lept before Mary in Elizabeths womb and Elizabeth said "How can this be? That the Mother of my Lord should come to me?"
4. It was said that the new ark is already in Heaven, who is the New Ark? Mary, Body and Soul.
And What is mediator? Someone who points out someone to something, Moses was a Mediator too! So is Mary, everything she does points out to Jesus his son, Mary can be our role model to imitate her actions and obey God, and it all points out to Jesus, Mary is close to Jesus, she's the Closest human being to Jesus since she's his Mother, let us love Mary! The Theotokos.
Destiny of the endless as a Protestant Christian i don't hate marry, i just believe that she's the mother of jesus on this earth and there's no verse in the bible says that we have to pray to marry and believe that marry would say it to Jesus..jesus is the only lord our saviour..why we have to asked a dead person like saints or marry to pray for us?.they don't even hear it..LoL..
I am currently in the assemblies of god and have grown dissatisfied with all the things of evangelicalism. I do not feel they are the way church should be. I'm scared to say anything because then I'd have to tell my pastor why I want to leave and also my wife.
Where does it say in scripture to address a dead saint and how do they hear peoples prayers from glory?
As didora already mentioned, the saints in heaven are not dead, they are more alive they you or I.
rev 5:8 tells of the being in heaven offering the prayers of the saints on earth to God. Note the liturgical setting, incense, candles, scrolls being read, etc.
I understand the role of the saints and the Virgin Mary but why is it that the Orthadox church sings far more praises to her than the Holy Spirit. Why should one who is so blessed be so venerated that we have to devote far more prayers through the Theotokos than the Holy Spirit. Did Christ not say when he leaves one greater will come ,the Comforter and the One who will sand there to protect us. The Holy Spirit is God’s breath within us. There is a fundamental problem and often Orthadox Christians will say may the God bearer be with you even though Jesus said I send you the Holy Spirit. There is nothing wrong with veneration but there is something wrong when the amount of veneration turns into worship. Did Christ not say you must be reborn, he did not say you must pray to my mother.
It is important to differentiate between Holy Liturgy, Vigil and other type of services from the Akathist that is dedicated to the specific saint. In services saints are mentioned, Mother of God also but in very small proportion comparing to the number of prayers directed to the Holy Trinity. On the other hand, with Akhatist that is specifically directed and dedicated to one saint, mentioning of that saint is far more intense. If it happen to be Akathist to the Mother Mary, she is called upon many times. In the life of the Church, time spent on regular services is predominant comparing to the time Akathists are sung. Within one and a half hours that Holy Liturgy usually take, there is a plenty of time for prayers to Holy Trinity and to the saints. Noone is forgotten. Peace brother..
"More prayers to her than the Holy Spirit" have you read Orthodox prayers? Most of them end with an address of worship to the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). We praise/pray to the Holy Spirit _a lot,_ particularly in union with Father and Son. In our Liturgy, we ask for the presence of the Holy Spirit, and during the consecration of the Eucharist we ask the Father to send forth His Spirit upon us and the bread and wine. Every Orthodox prayer service, and even things like meetings of Orthodox Christians begin with a prayer to tbe Holy Spirit, "O Heavenly King"
We worship the Father, through the Son, in the Spirit.
"Or you can to someone else in the circle.. "
Well, that's not what the apostles teach us.
Romans 8:26-27 (KJV) "LIKEWISE THE SPIRIT ALSO HELPETH OUR INFIRMITIES: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: BUT THE SPIRIT ITSELF MAKETH INTERCESSION FOR US WITH GROANINGS WHICH CANNOT BE UTTERED.
And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because HE MAKETH INTERCESSION FOR THE SAINTS ACCORDING TO THE WILL OF GOD."
What version of the Bible do Orthodox use?
I don't know what the version mine is, but it's called The Orthodox Study Bible. My priest gave it to me because I didn't have one and it has beautiful teachings and explanations inside along with the full Bible. I highly recommend you look it up.
Without the Orthodox Church, no other Church would have a Bible. Isn't that ironic?
dlandrews1 you mean the Catholic Church right?
Shane Gregory nope i think it was translated to greek first i am not sure though
@@georgesk2506 it is the original bible as it was written. the closest translation in english is the king james.
In 30 000 verses of the Bible nowhere does it say that Mary is our intercessor!
Dead is dead to us, To him we cannot hide, hell heaven etc.
Ecc9:5 the dead have no more reward, 1Sam 15:28 witch of endo.
Catholics & Orthodox want to seem imperior to normal Pentecostal Christians by making idols & praying to God knows who.
Just know this, you will be judged by God for turning people away from God. Ezek33.
In 7957 verses of the Bible nowhere does it say make idols of Mary or the Saints.
You choose to do so at your own will.
If the Bible was a Law Book you would be in jail for eternity.
He is The Way The Truth & The Life!
What did God say to Abraham about idols.
"Take them Out"
Our Lord is the Lord of the living. You are quoting OT like Lord did not die and trampled down death by death.? We do not know your "god".
@@johnnyd2383 Of course you do not know my God.
John 1v1 if you just understood that one verse you would not have invented Mariology in the 6th century.
All praise to Jesus.
You practice false gods that's why your priests can't keep it in their pants. The dead spirits run riot in your churches on young boys & nuns.
You know the god of soddomy, false worship, man praising men.
Does God tell your priests to rape boys???
Your Church is God, my apologies.
Which was first Orthodox or Roman Catholic??
First Orthodox and the Roman bishop broke fellowship with the rest of Christianity and founded the Roman Catholic Church.
The oldest existing record of the use of the term "Catholic church" dates back to around AD 110, in a letter from St. Ignatius. There was only the Catholic church until the schism of 1054. At that point, the Eastern churches that broke away began to be known as the Orthodox churches. So the Catholic church was first, but the term Roman Catholic didn't come about until around the 1200s and didn't enter common use until around the 1500s.
There is not exactly someone first or second.. before the Great Schism of 1054 the Church was governed by the Heads/Patriarchs of the five major episcopal sees. Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem. These Patriarchates and their Patriarchs were equal, and the one of Rome was honorably "first among equals" (Patriarch of Constantinople nowadays). They used to decide all together everything about Church through Councils. In reality the all thing was like the Orthodox Church works today. But after the schism between Rome and the other 4 (for many reasons..) the differentiation started. The word Orthodoxy have the meaning in Greek of the "right faith", in order to be distinguished from the Church of Rome. The Eastern Orthodox Church claims that is the true One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church of God.
As you can understand, (almost) until 1054 the Church (even the one of Rome) was like the Orthodox today. After 1054 Rome (and the West) took a different path and the other 4 Patriarchates (and the East) stayed and continued in the old path. Later new Patriarchates were created with the christianisation of Slavs, Russians etc.
The Orthodox Church also calls itself Catholic ... it simply means 'Universal' as the Church should be. They two churches are exactly as old as each other. It was one church until the schism at which point both came to be. The question is really which of the two is closer to the original church...
Christian Church was only one until the split of 1054
Is there any church that is like the orthodox but without any kissing of pictures of saints or "worship/prayer" to Mary?
Icons aren’t just pictures, I see this was 2 years ago I hope you have found your way to orthodoxy and gotten past the surface level struggles you were having . God bless
In what "like" the Orthodox?
Wouldn’t it be a problem if the prayers going to mary , don’t actually go to Jesus, as it is not in the scriptures to pray to mary,
Abraham interceded directly with God.
Where in Scripture does it say dead people hear out prayers?
All saints are alive in Christ since they are part of His Body, the Church. After all our God "is not the God of the dead, but of the living" [Matthew 22:32]. What the Old Testament forbade was the idolic practice of necromancy. On the contrary honoring the saints through prayers was always the practice of the Church since the very beginning. See for example the earliest known prayer to the Theotokos dating back to ~250 AD: www.oodegr.com/english/ekklisia/oldest_theotokos_prayer.htm
The saints not only are part of the Church [Hebrews 12:1] but also they are not indifferent for their brethren who still live in the world [Revelation 6:9-11].
@@orthoglobus Saints are alive maybe but I've never read anything about them being omnipresent or being able to hear from the other side.
@@robertbrown3400 Only God is omnipresent and through His Grace the saints hear our prayers.
@@orthoglobusI've been bucking against Sola Scripture the past 5 years so that's why I'm discussing this at all. Not trying to be arrogant. This doctrine is one of the few that would keep me from converting to Eastern Orthodoxy. This is such a huge component of it and I don't see any warrant for believing that dead people hear our prayers. Even more importantly, that we even need any mediation apart from Christ who's death procured for us the highest mediation. The idea of levels of mediation is repugnant to my idea of what The Cross accomplished.
@@robertbrown3400 Our prayer to the saints doesn't have the same purpose with our prayer to the Lord; by praying to a saint we simply ask for his/her intercession to God. Prayers to the saints not only do not replace our prayers to the Lord, but rather support them due to the outspokenness the saints have in front of God. In the Bible we see many times that God offers his mercy to sinful people just for the sake of saints like e.g. Abraham, Moses, David, etc.
The message I want to give you with the above is that honoring the saints through prayers is not an innovation that someone simply thought, but the 2000-year living experience of the Church, through which God delivers us His Grace, often with signs and wonders.
I know that praying to Mary is not biblical, but praying THROUGH Mary and other saints, I am still undecided, as Jesus is the only mediator, and talking to the dead is necromancy and forbidden, but the saints do pray to God for the world in Heaven. So it is difficult to really call this a false doctrine.
Abraham was prayed to in the Old Testament. Ancient Israelites regularly venerated the tombs of their prophets. Prayer isn't worship, praying to isn't worshipping; this is the problem with Western Christians, they conflate prayer and veneration with worship because they've all but abandoned the large vocabulary of ancient Christianity. Words like adoration and veneration aren't even on their radar.
To set out the important point first, is that Mary is not at all in competition with the Lord since she is not God. And we don't "pray" to Mary the same way we pray to God as if they are equal, but that we pray (simply means, to make a request) to Mary and the Saints for their prayers for us to the Lord our God. Asking the Saints who art in Heaven is simply the same thing as you would asking your brothers and sisters in Christ to pray for us. There is no idolatry nor contradiction there, and the Church of God has always been honoring Mary and the Saints throughout the ages.
ENiGMA Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life it is by listenning to him and doing Gods commands we find the path to God. Mary and all the people of that time are all dead, we ask people that are alive to pray for us which is good, more things are wrought by prayer than this world dreams of but we can not use dead people to pray for us. Jesus told us how to pray directly to God but the churches wont allow this, remember years ago what would happen to people if anyone was caught reading the BIBLE on their own they were punished. Jesus did not die for us, HE LIVED for us bringing us the way to GOD. This is why the church has chosen someone else to be a mediator but it states very clearly the following there is no need to say ah yes it depends how you interperate it there is no other way. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ 1Timothy 2: 5
ENiGMA | "Mediator" does not mean intercessory. It means middle-man. "One mediator between God and man" does not mean Christ interceeds on behalf of mankind to God the Father. It means Christ is the only one, of the Three Persons of the Holy Trinity, and of Humanity, that is both God and man, simultaneously. Christ is Almighty God who sits on the Throne of Judgement. He does not intercede, He is interceded to.
Oh really because in the Bible the Heil Mary is in the Bible.
U actually do that , in Ethiopia she is seen as a way of salvation
🙏
Mary is the Ark Of The Covenant ❤
How can non omniscient creatures hear the prayers of millions? Sincere question by a Protestant here.
Good question
Good question, they are in presence of the holy spirit so the spirit let's them hear the people asking them to pray for them
@@orthodoxouwatje4632 how do you know that? Where in the bible does it say that?
@@testtickles8755 Hebrews 11:1-12:1 finishes "Seeing we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses [in other words, the heroes and martyrs of the faith from ages past], let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us." Thus, the heroes and martyrs are a good example for us, and surround us like spectators at a running race - therefore, obviously, they know about us and can see our struggles from heaven.
James 5:16-18: 'The prayer of the good man has powerful effect." In other words, the most powerful intercessors in the Church are those most advanced in holiness. And who is more advanced in holiness than a soul who is already fully sanctified and in heaven?
Revelation 5:8; 8:3-4: "In heaven the elders and angels offer up the prayers of the saints [on earth] as incense before the throne of God."
@@testtickles8755 no answer dude? Ok then
Very well explained. I have a question: why would we need to heap praises on somebody else aside from the One who came down to be beaten, flogged, berated, and ultimately nailed to a wooden cross so we can be freed from the penalty of sin (death), and later enjoy an eternal and purely joyful existence that none (including Mary) of us deserve?
ChuddleBuggy why do we praise anyone? For their endurance in following Christ
@@Theoria they are not our servants for we are but fellow servants. That kind of praise comes only from the master in recognition of a faithful servant. The praise that we offer up in our prayers are supposed to be reserved for God and Jesus Christ alone.
Because the bible tells us so
Without Mary there is no Christ.
@@ChuddleBuggy You’re objectively wrong. The One True Church has always affirmed prayer to and honor of The Saints.
On point Matushka
Someone we can TALK to? The Bible forbids communication with the dead (meaning people who’s physical bodies have expired and their souls are in an eternal realm). The only way one could get around this is to proclaim that Mary was divine and is a God and not human.
Someone who you can ASK, to ask the Lord for something for us? Jesus said to pray to the Father in Jesus’s Name. The Bible says there is no mediator between God and man except the man Christ Jesus.
The first thing said in this video...we don’t pray to Mary. The last thing said in this video ...”That’s why our prayers TO HER...”
I am not saying that Orthodox people aren’t Christians. Far from it. I just know that it should be ok to have a frank back and forth discussion, peacefully so. Blessings!
I know you guys think using the Bible as a final authority on doctrinal matters is not acceptable, so I’m sure my mentioning of scriptures above is not relevant to you.
Again, I’m not meaning to be disrespectful, but only to have a discussion. I’m just stating the facts. I do consider Orthodox Christians to be my brothers in sisters in Christ. I’m just not sure they return the consideration.
If it is true that "the dead" include the saints who are living in Heaven, then why does Hebrews 12:21-23 say that those who are in Christ *have come* to the spirits of just men made perfect?
From your comments about Jesus directing us to pray to the Father, I imagine that when somebody asks you to pray for them, you respond, "How dare you ask me to pray for you? Pray to God the Father through Jesus Christ yourself!"
The Scriptures are not to the only or final authority, but that doesn't mean they are irrelevant to us. They are God-breathed and profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness.
@@tryingnottobeasmartass757 thank you for your cordiality. Respectfully, I don’t see anything in the Scriptures that tells us that the Word of God is not the only or final authority. That’s where the disagreement of viewpoints begins and ends. It’s ok. We can agree to disagree. 👍🏼
@@lisalmenard3828, neither do you see anything in Scripture telling you that it *is* the only or final authority.
@@tryingnottobeasmartass757 touche...we will have to leave it there. God bless you!
@@lisalmenard3828 I'm going off the top of my head so I don't know the exact verse, however there's a verse in the Bible where one of the Apostles tells someone to hold to the traditions passed along...
❤
I'm happy that we have scripture and Jesus was very clear that he alone is who intercede for us.
Mary is not to be pray and to al ask for spiritual
Where is your Church I would like to visit. I am Catholic and I am devoted to pray the Mother of God for her intercession. Please respond to my inquiry.
No response in over a year, even after you politely asked for a response. Its actually a good thing that you don't find an Orthodox church to go to though. They'd make you pray to Mary, as if she's omnipresent. Its terrible
while i do recognize the mother of God has a special place in the church. i think in the catholic,Ethiopian orthodox and eastern orthodox churches it's a little more than veneration and in some places worship. if you see the history after chalcedon the catholic and the eastern church become less devoted to Christ and much more devoted to the mother of God. so i think in the case of Catholics, Ethiopian orthodox and eastern orthodox churches(with or without knowing it) what they have for the blessed virgin is worship without question. and the question is, the early father recognized intercession and adding prayers to the virgin Mary was a good way to fight heresies but after Arius and Nestorius it just continued as worship.
I pray to the virgin Mary as long as pray to Jesus. but all my prayers are dogmatic and asking for intercession and of course praises too but i know that they are not worship when you go to the eastern churches there are verses which you can not prove dogmatically. (i didn't want to mention lines from the Catholics and Ethiopians orthodox cause even the eastern agree Catholics worship the virgin and what the Ethiopians believe is a little bit worse). but i think when you go to Coptic and Syriac orthodox churches veneration and worship has it's own place.
p.s am not Coptic nor Syrian orthodox i just think all their views on the Theotokos is right.
May the holy mother of God be with you all.
what is the worse about ethiopian believe
In the teachings of Christ, does he mention praying to his Mother Mary?
Lord Jesus Christ's teaching did cover the most important things for our salvation but it couldn't cover of course any possible aspect of our spiritual life, especially since those who heared Him had not received the Grace of the Holy Spirit yet [John 7:39]. That's why He also mentioned "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now" [John 6:12]. One of such aspects is also the honour payed to of saints is an ancient custom of the Church as can be seen even from archaeological evidence: www.oodegr.com/english/ekklisia/oldest_theotokos_prayer.htm
2 TImothy 1,16-18 St. Paul prays for the saint Onesiphorus and for his home.
Yes
@@MrWesford Could you please give me a Bible verse where Jesus Christ makes this statement.
@@johnnyd2383 Mary is not mentioned in that scripture at all.
You can pray to Mary all you want but she won't hear you. She's not omnipresent. She would be sick to her stomach if she ever found out that you do pray to her.
We don't need to ask the departed (they can't hear us anyway) to put in a good word for us, God sees all and is in his very nature: love. Its obvious you don't know Him or His love
We respect her do you really think an ordinary woman would be holy enough to be mother of God? We respect her not worship her. Read into it a bit. If you love God you will acknowledge his mother.
@Martina Todorovic You’re telling me to read into it. I have. Have you?
“As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.” He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.””
Luke 11:27-28
Our Lord had a great opportunity to offer Mary the adoration that you give her, but he doesn’t. I’d rather hear his word and obey Him, not a man made tradition
@@artvanderlay1308 she is not above Jesus but more like saints so yes we do recognize her. My family's patron saint is John the Baptist.
@Martina Todorovic in orthodox tradition she’s recognised as “Παναγία” “the greatest of all saints”.
It’s ironic that you mention John the Baptist, because the Lord said that he is “the greatest born among women”
“Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.”
Matthew 11:11
If anyone should be called “Παναγία” or in the masculine “Πανάγιος”, it should be John the Baptist. This is yet another disregard of God’s word.
@@artvanderlay1308 Well you are not reading to the very end of the verse: "yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." So to say that Mother Mary is Panagia is not in contradiction to the Lord's words. What you do not understand is position and role Mother Mary has had in The Church in the times between Lord's Ascension and her Dormition - period of 15 years. What level of respect apostolic fathers had towards her is witnessed in writings and that can be read today. St. Ignatius of Antioch - apostolic father in his epistle to St. John the Apostle says: "But Salome also, [the daughter of Anna,] whom
thou lovest, who stayed with her five months at Jerusalem, and some other well-known persons, relate that she is full of all graces and all virtues, after the manner of a virgin,
fruitful in virtue and grace. And, as they report, she is cheerful in persecutions and afflictions,
free from murmuring in the midst of penury and want, grateful to those that injure her, and
rejoices when exposed to troubles: she sympathizes with the wretched and the afflicted as
sharing in their afflictions, and is not slow to come to their assistance. Moreover, she shines
forth gloriously as contending in the fight of faith against the pernicious conflicts of vicious
principles or conduct. She is the lady of our new religion and repentance, and the handmaid
among the faithful of all works of piety. She is indeed devoted to the humble, and she
humbles herself more devotedly than the devoted, and is wonderfully magnified by all, while
at the same time she suffers detraction from the Scribes and Pharisees. Besides these points,
many relate to us numerous other things regarding her. We do not, however, go so far as
to believe all in every particular; nor do we mention such to thee. But, as we are informed
by those who are worthy of credit, there is in Mary the mother of Jesus an angelic purity of
nature allied with the nature of humanity." Source: www.ccel.org/ccel/ignatius_antioch/epistles_of_ignatius/anf01.v.xx.i.html
It's a shame, protestants brothers deny That One who accompanied The Son of God as He was in flesh among us, and say that the had dozens of sons and daughters. We never heard any genealogy of Jesus's family. As an Orthodox Christian I hope to die with a such consideration that Mary was given as Our Mother by Jesus. Francisco A . Pereira.
If orthodoxy are wrong and prayers to mary don’t get acknowledged by Jesus, isn’t there a danger of the person praying to Mary , falling away because their prayer goes unanswered, surely it is safer to pray to God through Jesus only if there is any risk at all to someone’s salvation, wanting to be right and being too ashamed to change a doctrine that is not Biblical because of pride, makes no sense to me.
There is never any danger when praying to any Saint.
We do not call Her " Virgin Mary" but Most Holy Theotokos
We call her both
@@orthodoxouwatje4632 Theotokos is morr common. We always call the b, their titles. Christ not Jesus, THEOTOKOS and not "Mary"...
@@alexandermarkus9587 ok
I disagree with praying to anything other than G-d. I do not remember Jesus praying to anything but G-d. Actually, when Jesus gave example of how to pray, it starts "Our Father, who is in heaven...". Even if you do not say "in Jesus" or whatever stuff, G-d is G-d. Besides, if Jesus is God, why not just pray to G-d and avoid the ambiguity or potential issues?
Kane Kreed | Please. A prayer of thanksgiving is not the definition of "worship", it is the Sacrements and the Ceremonies surrounding the Sacrements, such as the Holy Liturgy and the Vespers. Everything is Biblical. Luke 1: 26-45, Luke 11: 27, Luke 1: 48, Psalm 45: 17-31, Isaiah 60: 14.
Kane Kreed - have you ever asked a dear friend or family member to pray for you? If you have then you can also ask the Holy Blessed Theotokos to pray for you as well, or any of the Saints for that matter. Christ also instructed us to " pray for one another"
TRY READING THE BIBLE: Luke 11 27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!” But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” Even Jesus took Mary and qualified her, "Being Blessed" to a LOWER LEVEL than all those who hear God's words and obey. Your are worshiping another god and it is worthy of hell's fire.
While I believe in the Holy Orthodox Church, you raise a valid point.
It gets complicated though because to take the Protestant position would be to assume that the church did not exist for like fifteen hundred years?
And I can also use the Bible to demonstrate that the apostles passed along tradition other than the Bible and that we're supposed to be one Church.
And then when you look at the mess that has become of protestantism, with there being literally 10s of thousands denominations, offshoots and sects, the situation gets even more complicated.
And now, today, I can also see the wisdom in the great "schism" between the Orthodox and Roman Catholicism -- just look at the catastrophe that having an "infallible" pope and unmarried priests has brought about?
The situation is...complicated.
None of this can be reduced to a simplified answer such as "you're wrong and going to hell"... none of us really know what's happening.
But then to add a plot twist, the Bible says that God is not the author of confusion... and yet the current state of Christianity is incredibly confusing.
We always read this on any feast of the Theotokos. It calls to mind, why is the Virgin Mary blessed? Not just by blood, but because she offered herself to God and became the tabernacle of the new covenant. The words “blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it” perfectly apply to her! She heard the word of God and kept it, you can read the story of the annunciation in Luke’s own gospel.
You have one mediator and that is Jesus Christ. You want to ask someone to pray for you and ask father God to help you in any area pray to Jesus. No where in the Bible is it ok to pray to dead saints. Look at Saul when he tried to pray to the prophet Samuel it wasn’t ok
Momma Mary is saint number one
Speaking to the dead is detestable to God. Jesus said I am the only way the truth and the life no one comes to the father is except through me. It's pretty clear that the dead can't intervene with God for you.
I see no evidence the cloud of witnesses are to be prayed to.
No evidence of Mary having a role with living human Christians.
Last we hear of Mary is with the other women going to the Tomb.
Show me textually where I am mistaken.
Shalom
Did Jesus himself ever teach to pray to his Mother?
rohag735 never never never.
Christ is the ONLY mediator between God and man. (''No man cometh unto the Father but by me.''-John 14:6)
Fallacy of equivocation.
Umm no, Deuteronomy 18:10-12 "10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass[a] through the fire, or onewho practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 12 For all who do these things are [b]an abomination to the Lord, and because of these abominations the Lord your God drives them out from before you."...Mary's dead, Saints are Dead/passed over. I believe It's somewhat demonic to do so.
All saints are alive in Christ since they are part of His Body, the Church. After all our God "is not the God of the dead, but of the living" [Matthew 22:32]. What the Old Testament forbade was the idolic practice of necromancy. On the contrary honoring the saints through prayers was always the practice of the Church since the very beginning. See for example the earliest known prayer to the Theotokos dating back to ~250 AD: www.oodegr.com/english/ekklisia/oldest_theotokos_prayer.htm
And the angels of the lord said “blessed are you and blessed is the fruit of thy womb”.
We venerate our blessed mother and she intercedes on our behalf.
Every sermon she is venerated so many times that as Orthodox christian’s we have lost the message of salvation. We have drowned out the word of Jesus Christ. Christ clearly told us that The Holy Spirit will guide us and dwell within us. It’s unfortunate that in our modern day scripture we worship people in power and the mother Mary. She is a saint beyond saints and she is blessed but the message has been corrupted. It’s as if we have transformed her into a metaphysical been with a multidimensional form beyond veneration.Salvation is God’s instrument Love and the meaning of salvation is bringing us in communion with God. Instead we have transformed salvation into a prayer through “The Mother Of God”. Perhaps since we are so screwed in our belief we can say since she is the mother of God she originated before God himself.
Mary is comforting but Jesus is not? Since Mary is not divine, she cannot hear anyone unless the speaker is literally in her presence. Mary, as a faithful Jew, would be horrified in how the Roman and Greek Gentile churches treat her.
You’re very silly. Mary heard our prayers and has appeared to many Faithful Orthodox Christians throughout the centuries. She is not horrified, but delighted. Theotokos save us!
@@MrWesford No, she didn't and even if she did she cannot do anything. Only Jesus is the God bearer. Mary was a sinner just you and me. As a good Jew, she would be horrified at the gentiles.
There is no Christianity without being born again by the Virgin Mother...
So basically Mary plays the same roll as the Saint
Yep in greek we call mary also "panagia" which means the greatest saint.
Pretty much
We Orthodox still love our Catholic younger brothers & sisters who left our Church centuries before because of the confusion in opinion about Nicene Creed.
Innu Keralathil Malankara Orthodox Syrian Sabha yekkurich kallangal pracharippikkaatha munne munnu Sabhakale ullu:
1. Knanaya Sabha
2. Chaldean Syrian Church of the East in Trissur (Metropolitan Province of Assyrian Church of the East in Iraq)
3. CSI Sabha
Ippo varum oru vashathu kude nanmayude nirakudam chamanj maruvashathu kude ente commentsinu thazhe Asabya vakkukal upayogichukondum ennnekkurichum Malankara Orthodox Syrian Sabha yekkurichum kallu vacha nunakal pracharippichukondum sthiram themmaaditharavumayi Herald of Truth enna UA-cam nameil Herald of Lies umayi oru Syro Malabar Catholic Pakal Manyan.
SATHYAMEVA JAYATHE
Praying to Mary & the Saints is unbiblical!
There's a difference between asking family or church friends to pray for you, (which by the way doesn't mean that those people you've asked to pray have more power or authority than you, but that if more people join in, more petitions are heard at the throne of God) and there's a difference with speaking to dead people!
Jesus is both Mediator & Intercessor. If Jesus is sufficient for both those roles then why do we need to pray to Mary or one of the saints, who by the way, are dead! By praying To them, we are taking the attributes of God and placing them on mere humans!
If the word of God tells us to come to Him directly, then why do we need to pray to anyone else???
Take a look at the following scriptural references:
Romans 8:34
[34]Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes INTERCESSION for us.
Hebrews 4:14-16
[14]Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
[15]For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
[16]Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
1 Timothy 2:5
[5]For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
Acts 4:12
[12]Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
Jeremiah 29:12-13 Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.
Jeremiah 33:3 Call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know.
Praying to the dead is common in the Bible the Protestants just threw those books out because it was inconvenient for their agenda during the reformation
@InnocentAlaska Those books you claim were pulled out of the Bible were never considered inspired Scripture by the early Jewish community in the first place. If anyone knows the Old Testament scriptures, it's the Jews to whom, as Paul says, were the recipients Of the Oracles of God!
Romans 3:1-2
[1]What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision?
[2]Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. THE SCRIPTURES!
The early Jewish historian Josephus, rejected the Apocrypha, stating it was to some degree essential historical writings from 400bc onwards, but since the last Prophet Malachi was written around 500bc, it was therefore considered by all the Jewish community as non canonical and uninspired, since there were no prophets during the time of the writing of these books. Although the Latin Vulgate included it, Jerome place them in a separate section as non canonical and uninspired and not to be used for doctrinal purposes. Even early church fathers such as Origen, Cyral of Jerusalem & Athanasius rejected them as inspired Scripture!
It was only made officially Canonical and Inspired by the Catholic Church in 1546, as a reaction to the Reformation to justify certain doctrines that were contradictory to scripture in the first place. The Catholic Church never universally agreed on these books as being inspired Scripture until this date! Which as far as any Christian is concerned, should raise eyebrows. The Apocrypha also includes several historical errors. I'm gonna give you one example and leave several links below explaining as to why I believe the Apocrypha is not inspired Scripture.
One of the errors is from 'Judith 1:5', which mentions that Nebuchadnezzar was the King of Assyria, yet we know from history & the other Scriptures that he was he was the king of Babylon. Why would writings if they were inspired by God have significant errors like this?
Here are the links:
carm.org/roman-catholicism/errors-in-the-apocrypha/
crossexamined.org/why-the-apocrypha-isnt-in-the-bible/
carm.org/roman-catholicism/reasons-why-the-apocrypha-does-not-belong-in-the-bible/
You are roaming around and posting very same slurs whenever video speaks about Orthodox devotion to the Saints. Devil is not leaving you alone... definitely. He is riding you...
@johnnyd2383
What part of anything I said is a slur, which passage of scripture I shared was incorrect?
It's incredible that you don't have anything biblically constructive to say, no evidence whatsoever to support your position, and that is precisely why you hurl labels & accusations on people because you don't have anything informative to say! It's become abundantly clear that, your faith is not in Christ, nor His Word but in a religious system that has changed over time and added teachings & dogmas that were not never their in the first place. If you actually read what I had originally written carefully, you would never have responded in the first place, that's because you don't care about scripture nor early church history, you only care for your beloved Religion.
Note: I was born into a Greek Orthodox family, when I started reading the scriptures decades ago I realized that so much of the dogmas & teaching were never their in the early church.
Mary has no role in any Church anymore, reading the Bible will explain how we are saved, start by reading these few verses,
Luke 8:19
“Then came to him his mother and his brethren, and could not come at him for the press.”
Luke 8:20
“And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.”
Luke 8:21
“And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.”
If you don’t understand that you need to be Abrahams seed, start reading the Bible every chance possible( preferably the KJV Standed version). And ask Jesus for understanding before reading.
Proverbs 3:6
“In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.”
Galatians 3:29
“And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
You can give away everything you have , and still not be saved,
1 Corinthians 13:3
“And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.”