Bosch Ebike Bike Motor Comparison & Test
Вставка
- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- While visiting the Bosch North America headquarters in Irvine, California, I was given access to a range of electric bikes with different motors. In this video, we talk about the differences between each (Bosch Active Line, Bosch Active Line Plus, Bosch Performance Line Cruise, Bosch Performance Line Speed, and Bosch Performance Line CX). The goal was to differentiate between each model was designed to accomplish and we discuss the weight, torque, and price differences at length.
Bosch ebike rive systems offer:
- UL certification
- Water resistant (but don't submerge or spray hard with a power washer)
- Shift detection, to reduce gear mashing and drivetrain wear
- Higher pedal RPM support: 100 for Active, 105 for Active Line Plus, and 120 for Performance Line
Jonathan Weinart is a Sales and Marketing Manager for Bosch eBike Systems North America. The forum post I mentioned, with more details and some images from the Bosch website, is located at electricbikereview.com/forum/... EBR was paid to perform this review #Sponsored We try to be honest, thorough, and fun! Comparison tools, shop directory, and forums at: ElectricBikeReview.com - Авто та транспорт
Thanks for keeping the helmet on the whole time, I was worried you’d fall over.
you didnt let the guy talk?
He knows better
Alfred Feuerstein who does know better what is amp volt wat discharge power torque ? Come on
For real, the Bosch Rep is a couple other videos. All due respect the dude is an engineer. That doesn't necessarily translate into an upbeat video. Engineers tend to be factual but dry. Yeah, I changed it.
of course he's into selfies, he's selfish
Hey Court,
You keep raising the bar. This is one of your best reviews.
Awesome! Thanks for the supportive feedback. I'm doing my best and glad you've enjoyed it ;)
Really great informative ebike motor vid. I've been shopping due to lung issues. I really appreciate you making this.
I’ve been enjoying my Bosch CX powered Izip fatbike for almost a year, nothing but good things to say about Bosch and Izip. 1800 miles so far.
Great video man, especially the comparisons at the end 👍
You should have let the expert do the talking/explaining of the features/differences. I notice you do that in a lot of your videos.
Yup. He's pretty annoying.
It’s even more annoying that he is always wearing that stupid bike helmet when he is inside the building or when he is not riding the bike. It’s like a safety blanket for kids.
He does a great job of balancing friendly relations with product reps and providing objective comment from his perspective. If you want the manufacturer's perspective go to its website.
why dont? u go and do a review then "let the expert do the talking" go on- fly to Bosch HQ and ask to present their products, court - obviously asked the rep for all the info and now is presenting it in a short form for easy digestion... ALSO he doesn't go to your work and tell you how to do your job man. relax ur flaps
"yup he's pretty annoying"
yea but so are over opinionated tools in the comment section ROFL.
Which one made the most noise?
1. Bosch Active Line
2. Bosch Active Line Plus
3. Bosch Performance Line Cruise
4. Bosch Performance Line Speed
5. Bosch Performance Line CX
6. The guy talking the whole time
Have been using the Bosch performance for the last two years on my Townie go, support has been excellent
Awesome! Thanks for providing some real-world feedback Jason, glad to hear that Electra and Bosch have been treating you well :D
I just love your reviews, don’t care about bad opinions. You cannot please everyone. At least, we get informed and this is the whole point. Cheers.
Amazing comparison. Thank's.Now, the price difference makes a lot more sense
Great page I’m excited t get my Trex Allant 9. 9 and start biking. Bosch is a really good company and you have a ton of great knowledge thanks for your work
Really great analysis. Perfect. Thank you.
I’ve had my bike for awhile now, so becoming a bit of an expert☺️might even start an ebike service/upgrade centre.
What about the noise level? Would love to see and hear comparison of different central-mounted engines.
Nice overview. Im still looking for an ebike with caliper mounts and the frame so I can install german Magura HS11 or 22 hydraulic rim brakes. With the hilly environment and my dog running with me often, I brake a lot. So I feel they will be more durable and less expensive to maintain. Do you have any ideas on this topic?
Hey guys had surface 604 colt for 1 year Bought bull e lite with active drive.Does not have the nick of the colt rear hub drive.Going up 10% grade you have to work it .Colt coasted up.Can you change to a more power full bosh motor?
Hi, great review. I'm looking at buying a Hybrid style bike with the Low end Bosch motor. My main concern is how good would it be on hills. I have a mountain bike with a 500 watt Bionx motor now and enjoy the hills but would like a more hybrid style. I have heard good things about mid drives. My main riding is country roads sometimes on dirt. Thanks
I have the CX model and i have never found the need to use Turbo in the low gear
I have Scott e-spark 720 2014 with just Bosch motor (without any marks like performance line, active line, etc). Which of these new motors I can install instead?
Great video as usual , Court !
How do you attach your Gymbal to show the motor in action?
Hi Kamlesh, I don't use the gimbal for that. There's a special bike mount from GoTough with a completely separate camera inside. I run with two or three cameras (even have a face cam to use sometimes!)
Does anyone know the maximum size chainring that will work with active line plus?
It doesn't look like those motors can be added on to a regular bike. Do they have kits like the bufang does. ?
When am using only for the city...need for work,and back for home....can i use performance line? Or maybe better choice is line CX?
Great job, good stuff
Thanks for this great review and your channel Court. At 8:40 you mention gear drag which I'm finding a real, err, drag on my Australian (25km max) Bosch performance line. It is next to impossible to go faster than that under my own steam because of that. Down hills is no problem of course. Just want to encourage your viewers to test ride with power assist off to feel the drag for themselves.
I've heard many people say this, but in my experience, this is not the case. If you were to ride the bike with no power from 0kph you might find it easier to pass 25kph. This is for two reasons, one the gearing will be more appropriate as you accelerate and you won't have the shock of losing nearly 300 percent assistance, it can feel like hitting a brick wall.
One way to solve this is to ride in a lower gear than you might normally deem appropriate. You can generate much more power by the motor and your legs your spinning faster, but most ride in a higher than appropriate gear since the motor can still power through it.
I would also encourage you to try a lower level of assistance than Turbo if you're commonly hitting the limit, this will also make that transition smoother.
This seems to be less of an issue in the states with our 32kph motors, but I know it still comes up. I hope this is helpful though.
Thanks for the feedback Brendan! I have done some reviews with the 32km Bosch motor and purposefully pedaled faster on flats, I can do it pretty easily (but I'm a fit rider and the bikes are brand new), this makes me wonder if yours has an issue? Either way, I respect your perspective and agree that testing bikes in person is worth doing when possible, and with the power turned off :D
Same here
Which one is better in terms of torque:
(Performance line cx) or ( performance line speed) ?
The bosch CX is super sensitive and smooth. I can start on a very steep hill and get immediate assist . Also it's very easy to find the " sweet spot " in any gear or any assist level. I like keeping the same cadence when riding and have enough practice with this motor to know when to shift gears and or the assist level. Oh and The Turbo mode is unbelievably powerful.
Which one is better in terms of torque:
(Performance line cx) or ( performance line speed) ?
not sure what the "speed" model is but the Cx is 84 Nm in Turbo .
thinking of priority bicycles embark ... What do you think?
The batteries are interchangeable but does anyone know if the motors are interchangeable from one model to another? My Raleigh with a Active Line and I have a large amount of people on non-motorized bikes pass me. There's little power in that. It is my fault for choosing it but now that I have experience i would never get a 250w motor.
I have noticed on some bike websites that it looks like the motor's torque is de-rated for internal gear hub drive trains. That is, a Nuvinci hub bike might have the same Bosch motor rated with lower torque than the derailleur version. I assume this is to protect the IGH (not exceed its torque rating) and is accomplished in software. Can you comment?
Yeah, there seem to be some behavior changes between cassette vs. internally geared hubs and CVT. You can see the different ratings on the detailed chart that Bosch provides. It's attached in my forum post here: electricbikereview.com/forum/threads/bosch-ebike-systems-motor-comparison.16240/ it's the second image. The first comment talks about hubs as well and might interest you.
Interesting. The chart just shows only a derailleur system listed for some of the motors such as the CX. Not sure how that fits with manufacturers (e.g. R+M) offering a Nuvinci IGH with the CX motor.
Does the e bike engines (Yamaha brose etc, not only Bosch) deliver more power than the listed 250w? What’s their peak?
Yes I'm pretty sure (depending on model). 500w is peak output for the bosch performance cx model I know that.
The performance line speed is one heck of a system, wish they wud incorporate an eMTB mode for their speed pedelec eMTBs, great video
Thanks Larry! I have seen an electric mountain model from Haibike and Bulls with the speed motor, too busy to find them now (and I'm not sure I reviewed the Haibike or just heard about it). I agree that an eMTB mode for the Performance Line Speed motor would be cool. Some people just use a speed dongle on the Performance Line CX to raise the speed, but I'm not sure how that works with eMTB and it definitely voids your warranty
Oh yes, Court you never have done a official review of one, they make one every year the new one is the Habike Xduro full seven S 9.0, I got two of them because I love the versatility of it, plus its a 28 mph speed pedelec. I use them to commute to work and ride the trails. Plus I don't mind the class one eMTBs, I think we have the best laws concerning the 20 mph speed limit, but for commuters I think 28 mph should be the standard, I think I told you this because I don't want to void the warranty and 20 mph is really the sweet spot for eMTBs, specifically.
ElectricBikeReview.com , what's a dongle?
I got a cube with a gen 3 performance line motor, it's alot quieter than these on this video?
Do you have to pedal? Can you go just with a trottle?
Inviting an expert guest just to say "yes, yeah yeah" ? I would rather liked to hear more from him.
Thanks for the video though, it contains great info.
Is it possible to charge an ebike by simply pedaling without using the engine???????? (granted that you have a hub dynamo in the front wheel)
The performance line cruise and speed sound amazing
Where can 'n buy a bosch performance line cx
What do you recommend for us 70plus years young riders on the Terratrike EVO models .
Bosch Performance Line or Bosch Active Line Plus? Riding on paved trails only
Hi Court great video as always would you be able do the same comparison with the bafang max/ultra drive range as I see that bafang is now selling the max drive systems from 250 watt all the way up to 1000 watt. It would be nice to compare the G330, G520, G521, G510 (which is the 750/1000 watt range and bafang claims it has 160 nm of torque) that's pretty impressive. Bafang is quite a popular mid drive motor in Australia I see quite a lot of Bosch performance line units, Bafang max drive units and Shimano units. Haven't seen Brose or Yamaha mid drive systems in Australia I have heard that the Yamaha system is not licenced to sell in Australia. Anyway keep up the great work love your informative videos all the best from Aus.
Great suggestion Robert, I want to visit Luna Cycles someday again and might film there. I'd love to do a Bafang motor roundup and the company reached out recently about a China trip but then didn't reply, maybe they are busy? I'll keep at it, and also aim for Yamaha, Brose, Shimano etc.
A friend has just bought a Specialised Levo 29er with the Brose motor. He is in Adelaide. It is supposed to have 90nm of torque.
I love ebikes. Even a couple years later your reviews are relevant. EBR. I also get into the online forum. Is there a comparison?
I love riding my ebike but nobody gives me any respect on the road
Time to get back and review the latest 2020 Bosch CX motors!
Great review, well put together.
Hey, thanks Mark! Tried to have some fun but also hit all of the important details. I included even more technical detail back in the forums: electricbikereview.com/forum/threads/bosch-ebike-systems-motor-comparison.16240/ and it already has some comments going. Hope you're doing well!
Very informative video! Thanks for putting it together. One of the things that might be helpful would be to remind the viewer that your fixed camera mounts may be transmitting some noise directly to the microphone (mechanical coupling). I've been riding a CX Speed for several months (Trek Crossrip+, based on your awesome review) and really very rarely notice the motor noise. Great comparisons between the various motor set ups, though! Thanks!
I agree, thanks for sharing this as this comes up quite often.
I was looking at a great Tern bike and saw they don't have a Cx performance option and only use the Active Line. Pretty sure I'm going with the Riese & Muller Tinker just because they use the Cx performance line.
Yeah, I like how R&M only seem to use the CX or Speed motors on all of their ebikes... They do cost more, but their bikes are made really well, and they also tend to be heavier. I guess they just decided to simplify buying options and aim for high-end on everything.
Hey Chris - the Active motor we chose for the Vektron is equivalent in power to Bosch's new Active Plus. With small wheels, the Vektron will accelerate as fast as a 700c bike with a Performance motor. We chose the Active motor because we feel it delivers the right balance of peppy acceleration and long range (Performance motors such more battery power). My recommendation: give both bikes a try and see how they feel.
Joshua Hon Oops !! . . So happy I called your bike (Vektron) "a great Tern bike" while you were here haha :) But torque is torque dude and my 20" wheel bike demands include being stored aboard a canal narrowboat in the U.K. and then having to negotiate along a muddy canal side towpath and then an equally muddy incline before I can then join the road system which I know the Vektron/Active Line combo can then no doubt adequately compete on.
Bosch makes the best e-bike motors and batteries in the industry imho. That’s why I just ordered the Reise & Müller Tinker HS from Propel Bikes. The speed and flexibility provided by the smaller frame were major factors in my decision I paid an extra $300 for it to be shipped but air freight from Germany. Hopefully it will arrive by mid-April. My fingers are crossed.
Bosch is not the only one offers gear shift detection. Kalkhoff Impulse 2.0 motor from 2014 invented gear shift detection for derailleur AND internal gear hub.
What is the duration in miles for these motors?
Finalmente un test tutto Bosch
I have some concerns about having a battery in the house. Is this safe? Please reply. To the question؟
I like the active line plus, it's really quite and very smooth power delivery
Darren Gibson billy no mate ? His name is different in the title ? Are you high on something.?😆😂🤣😂😆🤣😂
It’s slow af though
I have it now.
It's really too weak. It can't climb hills easily
Can you select Turbo, Sport modes etc as well as eMTB mode on the CX
Some CX motors come with Eco, Tour, Sport, and Turbo and then you have to get the shop to update their firmware to switch Sport mode to eMTB. I don't think you can have both... so a fully updated CX motor would have Eco, Tour, eMTB, and then Turbo. Does that make sense?
Oh yes, Many thanks I thing that would help many others too ! - I assumed eMTB was an extra mode rather than a replacement for Sport. I' thinking of getting a Haibike roadbike (sDuro Trekking 9.0) with a CX motor and I live in a hilly area but I don't think eMTB would be of much use to me. Thanks
I am very interested in the orange 3 wheeler and the long John just inside the front door
The orange bike is a one-off commisioned by Bosch and made by Nicolai. The Long John is the Urban Arrow. They have many dealers throughout the world.
Ok now I know the Mfg and model name Thanks 🍻
Loves some back door access this lad... to the shop.
Do you use an OSMO?
Please, do a review on the orange Nihola, especialy if it's a middrive.
Noted, will keep an eye out for it ;)
ElectricBikeReview.com Thanks ! Please put the Baboee Carve cargo bike, not Curve on the list too. The Carve tilts going into a turn so it won't tip.
Greetings from the Netherlands I just bought two riese and muller bikes with the cx line. Was expensive but I think its worth it.only gripe I have is that I couldn't choose the option for extra battery with buy a second battery on the spot not a bargain like $1000 extra that mind blowing
Cool! I hope the bikes are fun and hold up well for you, I trust Bosch, their stuff is pretty good... but yeah, the battery packs can be very expensive O_o
Thanks for making such great content have bin watching you for over a year now..as it turns out this was a great time to get an e-bike. new motors new tube batteries.. new models from Riese&muller. I have to wait until the end of July...so even living riding distance of Germany hahaha..Enough time to investigate good locks and alarms & gps systems..and learn a bit about 18650 cells and charging.. as an it nurd i know that 18650 cells like to be charged slowly and preferably at 75% for long term storage up to 95%.. that's why i considered getting two packs.. but to be honest even on Eco mode that bike feels great i don't see my self using the top mode just for fun that is hahaha.. welcome to the world of range anxiety..
Keep up the great work.. And have a nice summer.. Carpe diem..
I wish manufactureres gave us the possibily of buying a particular bike model with a particular type of motor. Unfortunately, if you go for most mountain bikes, you have to go with the most powerful AND the most power-hungry motor, the CX, even when Bosch themselves show the range difference between motors can be astounding. I highly recommend checking out www.bosch-ebike.com/en/service/range-assistant/ where you can easily compare those differences. I wish every manufacturer had something like that...
Anyone knows where to get in europe full suspension frame for bosch performance cx motor? I have been searching for such a frame without luck.
Vasilis Barbounakis I think you’ll have a tough time since Bosch motors are only sold with bikes. Occasionally frame manufacturers bring frames to trade shows and sell them at the end, but it’s not too common.
Oui La marque Moustache vend 2 modèles www.culturevelo.com/?page=comparateur&selection=13472,13474
Did you get a new camera, looks 👌
No, same camera from the past several years actually :P maybe it's just the beautiful California weather!! Thanks anyway though ;)
Very good comparison video. Thank you for posting this.
I used to have the performance line Cx motor on my Kathmandu. I'm guessing this is an old vid as most CX motors now give you 80 N m of torque.. I now have the Hiabike trecking 5 wich is a lovely bike . But only has 65 N M of torque. And is not as comfy a ride as the Kathmandu. Also I miss not having EMTB mode and the shift ditection
In terms of noise, clearly, the Active Line was the winner. I recently rented a bike with the Active Line Plus and it was quiet too. I couldn't believe it because I have a Bulls Lacuba EVO E45 and it has a belt drive Brose... The Active Line Plus produced less noise!
How is the Active Line Plus?
Does it make enough torq, or should i look for something higher end?
@@str1kez367 It depends on the hills that you typically climb. I climbed some pretty steep hills on first gear with the Active Line motor set at Level 2 with no problem.
My wife had to use Level 3 to climb the same hills.
*
Having full suspension MTB and changing Bosch Performance Line motor already 3rd time. First motor died at 6500 km, second at 7800 km. Each lastet approx 2 years. Bike - Trek Powerfly 7+ fs 2015. Both motors had same simptoms - clicking while you pedaling. A bit disappointed with life duration of this devices. Besides this idea of ebike is superb. Trip with 100 km goes easy, does not matter if there are hills :)
Did they cover your motor under warranty or did they give you a hard time?
@@Tendertroll1 so far it was repaired under warranty.
Bosch Active Line Plus is it the best 2019??
Maybe Brose is the best but you find it on much more expensive bikes.
Very nice.
Which is the best over all? Thx
Yamaha
Yes he is talking and talking and talking. But he knows realy a lot about the Bosch Motors. Anyway a realy great movie. And, I like the smile of the Bosch Guy. I am sure he loves his job!
Has Bosch improved how they handle the max speed cutoff? Yamaha apparently did this much smoother.
The max speed cut off is annoying , but is easily remedied.
I have a Baddass tuning box that completely eliminates the cut off and can be installed in less than a minute.
Great Job keep up the good work!!!
Let the man speak you sound like your interviewing yourself
Maybe he is applying for a job at Bosch :)
Bosch guy seemed like he wanted to let EBR guy speak and answer the questions to me.
Are there any pedicabs that use the Bosch mid drive?
Jason Porter we haven’t seen them yet, but it sure would be cool! Nicolai developer a custom trike for Bosch, but no pedicabs yet. It’s definitely possible though.
I rented a bike with the active line, it was quiet but very weak and had trouble going up steep hills
Same here with the active line PLUS !
I think only the performance line can climb hills
You guys are weak, gone up a 12 percent gradient bill with no issue, no leg burn at all, what the hell?? 😂
@@kevinconnell8422 not everybody wants to get sweaty going to work. Different people have different needs and circumstances
@@Tendertroll1 fair play
@@kevinconnell8422 too long to reply
5 minutes into video and you're talking 95% of the time.
You lost?
Good review. Thank you. I would be good to let the Bosch guy provide more input. Otherwise, why 'interview' him?
is it normal that it is so loud
"Hello Mr. Bosch expert! Please stand next to me as I show you all I know about your products. Feel free to nod once in a while. OK, thanks for your time."
@Jared Elliot No it didn't. You guys are freaking bots. This scam is the latest plague on UA-cam. I get hundreds of these identical comments on my channel. I report every single one.
I just reported the spam, thanks!
I’ll take one of each
great comparison! Thanks for that from germany. Haven't found something like this before. I am driving the new active-line now and i can't recognize any noise while driving.
Where i buy from in india
No clue... but there are a few ebike shops in the US that have shipped abroad. Try contacting Motostrano in Redwood City, California: www.motostrano.com/ nobody sells just the motor right now, but you can get bikes with Bosch installed :)
How much
The Bosch batteries ar the most important point they can be charged extra fasst to 80% capacity and they last longer than other batteries
Yeah, they are also probably safer than some of the cheap packs... nobody wants a hoverboard or Samsung phone incident with a pack this large :/
Poor guy wasn't allowed get a word in edgeways
Bosch Mid Motor looks bulky, they should learn from Bafang 2018 Line M500/M600. Slim and more advance.
Who is the engineer here now?
250 wats? My blender has a motor of 500 watts. What am I missing here... (mind u it is a strong blender).
khash Eshraghi Is your blender street legal?
torque is really the important reading. The Motors have between 50-75Nm of torque which I imagine is much more than your blender. Keep in mind the motor in these systems comes from the power steering motors for heavy German cars, like the Mercedes S class. I hope this helps give some perspective.
Chris at Propel You can use gears for more torque.
Your blender doesn't have to be efficient, because it uses 110V, 500 Watts is power used, not power delivered
Its the ampere !
Nice videos, thou you should let the interviewer talk more so we can have a different perspective of the wide range info of the industry
Uh, the UL certification is required for that stuff. It wouldn't be legal to sell it without UL.
John Smith it’s actually not required. Bosch requires it for their own products but at the moment they are the only manufacturer that does it here in the US
The guy looks like Court's older brother.
Ha! That's cool, I think Jonathan is taller than me. He has a fun sense of humor, especially since he works at such a big official company. It feels like they give him a lot of freedom and trust. He was a little sick for this interview but still toughed it out and had some fun :D
@@ElectricBikeReview ..
Just to clear up, the 250 Watts of power they state all their motors produce is complete bullshit. It's just for government regulations in different countries. It's fundamentally impossible to have that much more torque without more power. For example the CX motor has been measured to peak at around 600 Watts. The lower end active line peaks at around 400W.
Thats why you tune the motor to get most out of it. (:
Bravo pour la pertinence de votre commentaire
The Performance line CX offers 85NM and not 75. Atleast do your review properly..
Gazelle and Urban Arrow in the US of A. As we say G E K O L O N I S E E R D !
You never let the other person talk. I am getting tired of your video reviews.
More from the actual manufacturer please
Ur videos are always awsome. But I think thise prices are too high lol
Thanks Rubin! I'll be mixing in some cheaper bikes soon. My goal would be to review EVERY EBIKE!!! but I just don't have time, so I mix a blend and try to keep it fun. Bosch is a bigger name in the space with lots of motors and brands using their stuff... so I did this and other videos. Will have similar for Brose, Yamaha, Shimano, Bafang etc. someday I hope ;)
ElectricBikeReview.com no doubt. I'm just putting my 2cents in, keeping ur channel active lol.
I thought the plus would be quieter
Bosch will very soon will have a 6 amp charger coming very soon ! and they are coming out with a new Bosch Nyon system that's so much more better then the old Nyon , you need to ask your friend Johnathan form Bosch but i can tell you this info is a fact and it comes from Bosch
ElectricBikeReview.com
Another excellent video.
Regalami una per favore
E uno anche per me! Ottimi prodotti, belle persone lì :)
Me myself and I