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Intel's New Low: Commissioning Misleading Core i9-9900K Benchmarks
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2018
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Intel's New Low: Commissioning Misleading Core i9-9900K Benchmark
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![Intel Core i9-9900K Re-Review [95-watt TDP Results] Very Ryzen 7 2700X Like!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kmAWqyHdebI/mqdefault.jpg)
It's even worse than we thought, Principled Technologies are running the 2700X as a quad-core. Updated results here: www.patreon.com/posts/21950120
As an objective journalist does...
"Principled" Technologies. Irony over 9000.
This is very interesting finding but one question arises, did they know in advance that enabling game mode on the 2700x would disable half of its cores and even though they published the results!?, or it was only a mistake the made?.
@Constantine Xipolitopoulos we will address this in tomorrows video.
It doesn't really matter whether it's incompetence or malice. The bottom line is that you can't trust any of Intel's performance claims. One time it's jet lag then memory profiles and game mode - it's always something lately. Of course you should always take vendor benchmarks with a grain of salt, but this is getting really bad.
Good stuff as always. I don't mind propaganda or bold claims direct from OEMs... that's their job. But commissioning a review, and publishing intentionally misleading results 10-days before NDA of public testing is absolutely crossing the line.
Completely agree mate!
thats true, execpt if you're the one who define where is the line. I mean, it's capitalism. A firm push forward their products. It's up to the consumer to act, and to honest reviewers like you and HUB group to point out shady practices, and you do a great job for that, and I thank you for it.
Its not really a false advertising, its a really oriented one. Like pretty much any ad. I mean, intel paid a for a review, so, what did you expect ? It's unfair of course, but they want to squeeze every dollar they can as soon as possible, they know they will have tremendous difficulties to fabric and ship these processors, until at least January. Intel just "re-discover" what competition is, and this is making them act pretty bitterly.
it is absolutely false advertising, they are not showing the true performance of their own CPU's as well as the competition. Imagine if a car company did this, our competitor's car can only go let's say 86 MPH but in reality can go 96MPH and say for themselves their new car will go 120MPH but really goes 100MPH. that is false advertising.
how is that any different? both lie about performance.
"When consumers see or hear an advertisement, whether it’s on the Internet, radio or television, or anywhere else, federal law says that ad must be truthful, not misleading, and, when appropriate, backed by scientific evidence." That was by the Federal Trade Commission.
What Intel just did as well as the site that published this just commited a crime and should be punished
That "review" is obviously sanctioned by Intel. Doesn't NDAs typically state that it's okay to go publìc with stuff that's allready published? So now that one test is public the NDAs no longer apply to tests...?
Great video Steve! Those memory timings though... 😝 Thanks for digging into this!
X299: No load of XMP.
X399: Loaded D.C.O.P.
Z390: Loaded XMP.
X470: Didn't load D.C.O.P.
Kinda weird there.
But had they loaded D.C.O.P and populated all the slots would the AMD platform be capable of running the same timings? If they don't load them do having four dual-rank memory modules lower the timings even further?
It could be the case that if one don't load it and use as much RAM / same modules as they did use their outcome is real.
The found flaw is a nice one. I looked at the report yesterday when it was linked on reddit but since I saw XMP and DCOP mentioned I figured it was used in all cases I didn't noticed it was missing in some. The RAM amount I missed too. Though I do think that's a fair point. Yeah a gamer may not typically use 64 GB of RAM but Ryzen doesn't do all that well with RAM. More ranks, modules and slots are degrading things further.
Then again if AMD could slap Intel with an 8 core 5-5.5GHz chip for i5 9400 price, a 12 core for i7 9700K price and a 16 core for i9 9900K price this spring they can bring it home again for a little while until 10 nm is out =P
Brent P: I don't like the front of it much.
Lian Li Alpha 550(X?), Corsair 570X RGB, to some degree the Lian Li PC-011 Air those I like the look of. And the Evolv Shift and the tiny PC-O5 or whatever those are called cases from Lian Li. But I wish they had the air flow.
Then again I'd want the combination of low noise and good air-flow among the Fractal Design cases too but can't get both it seem so .. =P
jlrockafella Ryzen cpus are fine for gaming, even in PUBG I get 140fps average(!) now with the recent updates, overwatch sits on the fps limit of my monitor without ever dipping from 165fps, Prey again will sit on the fps limit.. Shadow of the tombraider has the gpu at 99% almost permanently.. So you can see there's absolutely no point in buying an 8700k when my old first gen 1800X performs this well. (Admitedly running high clocks, 4.15ghz & 3466mhz cl14.. but the newer gen cpus can go higher with less voltage, so meh)
@@jlrockafella What??!! Needs expensive memory?? Wow dude, if you are squeezing all the maximum power out of a processor of course you need expensive RAm not just on AMD side... Even on Intel, especially if you want RAM that can run really tight timings and over the shit fast speeds....
I'm the 1000th like on that comment!
Look at the i9-9900K vs i7-8700K performance deltas throughout this report... Did Intel realize they were shooting themselves in the foot here, showing the "greatest gaming CPU in the world" is routinely only ~5% faster than the -8700K? And it effin' LOSES to it in Rise of the Tomb Raider?!
It kind of makes you wonder about the performance potential of the non-hyperthreaded i7 part, now doesnt it?
Dex4Sure hey dude, not talking about i7 7700k...when it was brand new... my i5 6600k barely reach the gap ... only worth upgrade if you using from gtx 1080 up because at that gap, only 6 cores can handle that beast
Dex4Sure, OK, but how is that relevant? Intel are promoting the i9-9900K as the world's best gaming CPU, and this test shows it barely squeaking past the i7-8700K. And that's with a test setup designed to be as CPU-bound as possible without looking obviously ludicrous. Push more load onto the GPU by running 4K (or even just max settings 1080p, jeez) and that 5% is going to evaporate pretty bloody fast. So, yeah, I believe what you say, but how does it help Intel?
Lmao and here I am with my 3770k
FrosTy theNoob I actually went from a i7 3770 to a 1800x and it's a worthwhile upgrade
Nvidia marketing team: "we know how to skew stuff the most to mislead people"
Intel marketing team: "hold my beer"
Tom's Hardware: "Just buy it"
AMD marketing team: ua-cam.com/video/j7UBHjtCXhU/v-deo.html
arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/11/amd-sued-over-allegedly-misleading-bulldozer-core-count/
Why not mislead the buying public? “It just works”
@O'bese oh just stop.
Technically its a 8 core chip. AMD won lawsuit, so dont be cocky. It have 8 Integer cores, capable of doing 8 simulaterous threads, each integer core have OWN fetch/decode unit, Store/load unit and Address generator unit, which make it a CPU CORE.
Each bulldozer module have 2 Integer CPU cores which share one multithreading Floating point unit per module. Lack of floating point in each core itself do not make it half of core.
Before you want to drop roast on AMD, learn about architectures itself.
@@obese7027 three year old information. Done and settled. Look at date 11/06/2015.
Did you also share Intels lawsuits? Many of them... www.extremetech.com/computing/184323-intel-stuck-with-1-45-billion-fine-in-europe-for-unfair-and-damaging-practices-against-amd
Apparently Principled Technologies ran the 2700X as a quad-core CPU instead of an octo-core. How can an OEM computer company that's been around for over a decade screw up that poorly? It always sucks to see companies and publications put a monetary value on integrity, but I'm glad there are publications like yourself and the others mention that shine a light on these issues. Thanks for this Steve & Tim
Hey Oz, you're right they did. Here are the updated results: www.patreon.com/posts/21950120
Huh?
There's no evidence of that. In this video they ran an AotS benchmark and the numbers made sense if the R7-2700X was using all eight cores. The only issues I'm aware of are unfair frequencies and timings aside from the cherry-picked games and 1080p resolution.
PT disclosed that they used "Game Mode" in Ryzen Master. That disables an entire CCX on Ryzen - it's only meant for use with certain old or buggy games that can't handle high core count CPUs.
Follow the money... Lies are the new standard it seems.
Did you missed the pinned tweet from Steve confirming this. It's all over the net dude, they disabled one of the ccx's. They went full scum.
I've decided my next cpu will be AMD, based on principle. And the fact the
2700x is £200 cheaper than the 9900k and the 9900k in no way justifies
being so much more expensive.
Same. My next GPU will be AMD too, whenever they make something better than the 1080. I can't stand how much NVIDIA is price gouging and claiming their cards are 6x faster than the last gen card (even though we now know a 2080 is equal to a 1080ti) while conveniently leaving out the 6x faster claim only applies to lighting effects, and even then I doubt it's 6x.
Might I recommend waiting for the Ryzen 3000 series? It's very likely that they'll be a significant improvement over the 2000 series due to clock speed gains alone thanks to the 7nm process (I'm thinking 5GHz should be easily achievable on the high end 3000 series CPUs). However if you really can't wait (perhaps due to having a really old computer), you could maybe upgrade to a 2200G for now to hold you over until the next year, then get a 3700X (or whatever the new gen 2700X price equivalent will be called). And unlike intel where you need a new mobo every time intel releases a new architecture (used to be once every 2 years), you won't need to get a new one to upgrade.
The only thing making me hesitant to move to AMD right now is the memory latency issue causing you to lose 1-5 fps even at 4K resolution in many games. If you don't have a sync monitor this could mean the difference between fluid 60fps and stuttering/tearing. Like the above commenter I'm also quietly optimistic about the upcoming "7nm" CPUs and also the fact that they will be manufactured by TSMC rather than GlobalFoundries who have been shown to have a significant clock speed disadvantage over the former on equivalent manufacturing nodes. Sadly I think we are going to have to wait quite a while before seeing consumer CPUs made on this node, possibly a year or more.
Yup. Vote with your wallet. AMD still meets all of my needs so I go with them because I want to support better industry practices.
@Sergeant Avakkado honestly dude, this memory latency issue is blown way out of proportion. There might be a couple of games where it matters, but even then it's barely a difference. Have a look at the benchmarks here www.techspot.com/review/1655-core-i7-8700k-vs-ryzen-7-2700x/page8.html
If you go through each of the benchmarks you'll see there's like maybe two games where the 2700x dips below 60fps slightly while the 8700k barely stays at 60.
lol those benchmarks almost ruined my dinner, except it was a meatlovers pizza with extra garlic, so yeah didn't ruin it.
😂🤣
🤣😂
Nothing can ever ruin a pizza not even a bit pile of bullsh*t like this.
Intel hasn't had competition in a long. I think they've forgotten how to company.
They're really good at exploiting the uninformed 1990's customers.
yes they were as well as illeagaly making deals with companies to hinder AMD, Dell hasen't made a computer with an AMD cpu until Ryzen came out
Kyle no proof of that mate. Bulldozer/piledriver was absolutely terrible, and dell makes office machines, not budget gaming rigs
Jonnie there's plenty of proof of that, intel lost a suit and were ordered to pay AMD 1.4 billion in 2009; intel was bribing OEM's hundreds of millions to not allow AMD in the market. Also you may have not heard of Dell's XPS and Alienware series. Bulldozer in the grand scheme of things failed to meet expectations but still a very usable CPU even today. Get informed bud.
no proof of that? say that to the $1.45 billion fine they got slapped with in Europe
The $1.45 billion fine was a reflection of what AMD may have lost during the illegal deals.
Also this happened when AMD made the athlon 64's, thats not Bulldozer or piledriver smartass
8 intel fanboys had their feelings hurt.
If only they had extra threads
So one on here claiming game mode doesn't reduce it to quad core and the benchmarking favoured AMD?! Lol
Ethical journalism at it's best. Great work Steve! I never skip those ads before your videos and also request others not to as it helps monetize the video. We all need to support HU for such honest content.
It's things like this, not soldering IHS's, charging a premium for overclocking support and hyperthreading, price gouging, refusing to release higher core count CPU's for over a decade. It feels like every day Intel just digs the hole deeper and deeper. At this point i don't care how much better Intel CPU's are for my use case, i don't want anything to do with this company because of how they've been acting for the last decade. AMD is fast enough. I'm not a proffesional gamer, i don't need the absolute best. Games will still be fun at 10% less framerates.
The thing is, if its true that the 9900K is soldered (and a tech site proved this) www.techpowerup.com/247301/intel-core-i9-9900k-de-lidded-soldered-ihs-confirmed then that just means Intel's basically charging us way more more a consumer-level chip that they finally put solder on since Sandy Bridge... fuck...
...and half the price as well.
10% at best, and only on 1080p where the fps is ridiculously high and not much of a difference for the experience, the margin thins further at 1440p and up, while the price margin of 50-100% remains, so it's not even a contest...
Welp they lost even the gaming crown now
*That thing is nearly TWICE THE PRICE of a 2700x. (While not offering twice the performance.)*
*You have to buy an aftermarket cooler for it.*
*You may run into issues, if your current motherboard can't handle the new cpu....*
*I could just buy a 2700X, and have money left over to put towards the GPU.*
🖕 *Intel.*
Danmandingo I9 for 9 reasons not to buy.
the motherboards are also 2x-3x more expensive
the motherboards for the i9 are not 2-3 times more expensive. you are confusing this i9 9900k with the hedt i9's. boards that support an i9 cost as little as 49 dollars because h310 boards support it. z370 boards will support overclocking for.
if you are just gaming the cheapest z370 board at around 100 dollars will overclock it just fine. if you are doing encoding or video work then you will need a higher end z370 board or z390 but those board can be had for 150-180.
unless maybe you are thinking that a 2700x can run well on a 60-70 dollar b350 or b450. it might be alright at stock but i would not oc it. these cheap boards are made for the 6 core cpus really. although they support oc of the 8 cpus they wont do it very well and dont have the power delivery. i wouldnt pay less than about 80-90 for a 2700x board unless you are running stock clock. and if you are alright with stock clocks then a 60-70 dollar intel board will handle the i9 so youre argument doesnt hold up. you must be confused and think this is an hedt chip. but why would intel make such a fuss about an hedt 8 core chip when they have had those for years
At least the 2700x is soldered *cough cough*
it has already been stated that low end Z370 board will gimp the i9 9900k the simply do not have enough power delivery
I smell an incoming AdoredTV video 8)
When six = s*x
these eye nein nien tea nien hoondred kay microchaps are chaeriepecked and given to the reveuverz,\.
Well, Jim also exposed Steve... Don't you remember?
Alberto De Girolamo they had robust public debate. All's well that ends well.
i cant fucking wait for that episode.
@Dex4sure hes been mostly right and regarding conspiracies, he had set proof about the corruption and BS that comes with companies like Intel and Nvidia.. FACTS
The 9900K will be faster than the 2700X, I don't think anybody can doubt that, but will it be worth it over the 2700X when you consider power consumption, future proofing & price.
I suspect that those looking for better value for money will trend towards the 2700X, but those just seeking maximum performance will trend towards the 9900K.
Great video Steve, 100% agree with you, the results shown are very suspect and misleading.
Future proofing? This cpu will hold to its own for at least 4 years.
@@Agm1995gamer this cpu will be relevant in 5 years he'll even in 7 years it's gonna be a decent budget option
It's more "future proof" than the 2700x.
Screw the future proofing, the power draw and price themselves are all you need to think about. Factoring in just the aftermarket cooler you need for it, puts the 9900K at twice the price of a 2700X. And I can guarantee it's not going to be anywhere near 100% better than the 2700X.
2700X 8C16T half the price
My next build; CPU AMD; GFX AMD. Intel and Nvidia have really pissed me off...
That's fine buy your cheaper parts and get your cheaper results. Also you so luckey AMD released the ryzen and thread ripper cause with out them they were done put fork in them. I think we can put a fork in the GPU department.
If all you really do is game at 1080p you can save so much by going Ryzen.
Also RX 580 8Gb are dirt cheap and that's basically the same as a GTX 1060 6Gb
But the Rx 580 has freesync so it's even better.
+Jayjay Sahin Actually the 580 is faster than the 1060 in most games nowadays
@@bumperxx1 fanBoii!!
*triggered!!*
bumperxx1 , Is it fun to be stupid in public?
Thank you for representing and standing by the truth and helping to raise awareness among tech enthusiasts and consumers at the same time.
Guess what, folks. You can buy a 8c16t AMAZING cpu (w/fancy RGB heat sink that works!) for just
I got 9900 problems but Steve ain't 1!
thats because there is 2 steve, gamer nexus and hardware unboxed xD
@@rushdrift no. one Steve and one tech Jesus lol
intel is lossing there shit becasue amd is doing much better than they were acouple years ago
lossing? :)
If you're going to comment on spelling at least do the whole sentence. "There" should have been "their". "Becasue" should have been "because". "acouple" should have been "a couple". He's also mixing plural and singular use of AMD in the same sentence saying that "AMD is" (singular) but later "they were" (plural). Either use in the context is fine but mixing them up is not.
i cant type well on a s3 mini lol
can't wait for 7nm AMD Threadripper and Vega/Navi
at 7nm you know AMD is going to shit out that 64 core CPU lol The threadripper build with it's 4 dies is perfect for adding more cores. I wonder what kind of monster of a CPU that would be at rendering lol
ya
Damn right Amd needs to put Intel to the ground
@@RSBickAKaby 64 core Threadripper would both require a new Motherboard platform and eat into their Epyc range. TR4 is quad channel memory, going up in core count would require more memory channels giving direct access to memory for all groups of cores.
Going by what we have now, progression for Threadripper will most likely mean energy efficiency, better IPC, higher clock speeds and increase in multicore performance with the current amount of core counts that we have now until they make a large leap for Epyc having way more cores and memory channels , at which point both Epyc and Threadripper will make a jump.
I would be very surprised if this happens any sooner than six years from now.
then keep waiting till Q4 2019 or higher...
Steve's a chill guy could tell he was pretty pissed off lol. Nicely done Steve!
So pretty much, Intel told reviewers who would do proper tests under a NDA until time when they get sent out to the masses. During that time, they paid someone to 'make benchmarks' that favor Intel over AMD, in hopes to bring in even more sheep to become 'early adopters.' Only time I seen a company do something that low like that, is when they are shaking in their boots and/or being salty. Seeing AMD can shrink stuff while Intel is struggling....
Calling it: 9900k will be around 5-7% faster in games compare to 8700k.
I totally agree. I want to go intel again, but this shady shit is something that i wont support.
And the price ratio?
OneGoogleUser it's nice how you choose to ignore everything that is happening and blindly claiming something that everything indicates opposite to...
kumbandit whoosh
Funny thing is they showed how unimportant the 9900K is for gaming. Almost $500 and the difference they claimed between it and the 8700K is 5%. Clearly worth it.
Not to mention the 9700K which is going to be way cheaper than the 9900K will also probably render it poor value for games.
I do wonder how the lack of hyperthreading in the 9700k is going to hamper it though. We can see how much the 8600k is behind the 8700k in some tasks, falling behind even the stock 8700 non-k, while being OCed. This could be a real shit show for Intel.
A 8700k is 450€ in Italy, 9900k will probably be 580/600€
@@bigbuckoramma in games - none at all. In productivity HT is like 2-3 extra cores.
@@Matticitt we are already seeing some negative scaling with the 9900k in Intel on cooked benchmarks, so there is a potential for diminishing returns in the 9700k as well. When it comes to productivity multi tasking, like gaming and streaming for example, the delta between the 8600k and the 2600X is MASSIVE! Even though, in straight gaming benchmarks, there is little to nothing between the 8600k and 8700k. Compare the 8700k to the 2600k in the same test, and suddenly it's far more even, if not a little favored towards Intel. So despite the additional core count, there are some heavy losses without HT, where the AMD SMT actually seems to be a bit more efficient per clock than even HT. Be curious to see what happens with the 2700X and 9700k in heavy load multi-tasking benchmarks.
This seems to be normal business practices for intel. They've done far worse to get the upper hand over competition.
Things like this: www.extremetech.com/computing/184323-intel-stuck-with-1-45-billion-fine-in-europe-for-unfair-and-damaging-practices-against-amd
And this: www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/Intel-still-hasnt-paid-AMD-12-billion-USD-anti-trust-fine
It's sad. Both companies have great products. The competition from one only serves to drive the impetus of innovation at the other. Alas, AMD seems to relish the battle on a level playing field while Intel simply looks for ways to tilt the field.
For crying out loud... Intel, you don't need to do this crap!
Steve, thanks for bringing this to our attention, because you are right, its crap. Intel already has the best gaming CPU, no one can really doubt that. AMD represents much better value, and in most cases you'll never notice the difference true, but the 8700k/9900k are still faster. Stop being garbage Intel, do you really think we are that dumb?
Grrrrrr....
Thanks Steve, great content as always
NVIDIA fanboys do prove people ARE that stupid. Same shit, basically, maybe worse, probably worse. I'm not sure it's any different in the CPU crowd, tho i guess NVIDIA might be cleverer than Intel. I, personally, hardly see how NVIDIA is any clever, but it works. People are being shat right into their brains and defending NVIDIA at the same time.
Saying that as someone who has 1080ti under the hood, albeit bought for a low price.
I'm not saying AMD(ATi) are saints, i'm just saying they don't show us their dirty side(if they have one), like NVIDIA LOVES to do without any shame
Sadly intel is thinking that, cause people proving that.... sadly....
Because Intel knows that fanboys ( there is alot of them) will still pay whatever because they have better "gaming" performance
Intel kinda needs this crap to justify their prices.
AMD has kinda shown their dirty side atleast once (the time they were promoting the price of their GPU's during the mining boom in 2017). The thing is, their dirt is nothing compared to Nvidia's dirt, let alone Intel's dirt.
European prices are unbelievable! Here in the Netherlands the 9900k is €650,- and the 9700k is €550,-!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ryzen 2700x is only €330,- Do we really need to pay €100+ to the government for those sweet 1% lows -.-? High refresh rate/competitive gaming has become way too expensive.
Question remains, if you pay that much for the processor while the 2700x or the 8700k can get great results, imagine the games you could have bought for the money
Or the higher tier graphics card (if you are revamping your system or buying new)
This year's been interesting. Lost trust in Tom's and now PCGamesN. What a good way to get rid of your fans :)
PCGamesN at least have updated their original article now.
Doesn't matter to me what they attempt to do AFTER the fact...
You know, don't trust anyone, always check sources and use critical thinking. Everyone can make mistakes, even the best.
I missed it, what did Tom's Hardware do? Serious question, I really dont know.
+NickCauthon They said "Just buy it", talking about rtx before any review was available.
Intel being misleading? Never. What, did they mail you a mandatory chiller for your review?
Do you watch the video?
Sarcasm.
@rauno kuldkepp gramar gud yaz
Vadim & Rauno
r/woooooooosh
vadim negru r/woooooosh
A huge thumbs up for today's video!
Appreciate it Nik, thank you for your direct support over the years.
CHECK THE WHITE PAPER ON THE TESTING, RYZEN MASTER WAS INSTALLED AND GAME MODE SET SO HALF THE CORES AND THREADS WHERE DISABLED BY DOING THIS!!!!! (4 CORE 8 THREAD) CUTTING THE 2700X IN HALF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry about the capitals just hoping this gets seen!
This is possibly the most egregious part of the whole sham, and it's innocuous enough to miss if you're not reading carefully.
What the fuck are you screaming about
Someone on here claimed it didnt reduce cores to four and benchmarking was skewed in favour of AMD anyway?!
Told him he had better run around telling everyone as everyone is saying the exact same things. Lol.
Jesus, some people?!
I just bought a 2600 (my first AMD CPU) and i'm probably going to replace it with a 3000 series Ryzen. After these benchmarks i'm even happier of buying my new Ryzen. I'm not a fanboy, i've been using Intel CPUs since q6600.
Good choice mate. And don't worry AM4 motherboards will still be viable next year so you can sell the old CPU and buy the 3000 series.
Personally, since I just upgraded from an FX9590 to a 2700X, I am enjoying such a performance boost that I am going to wait for 3000+ or 4000 series to come out.
@@night_fiend6326 I mean i will probably buy 3000 series only if will be a big upgrade.
Excellent choice.
I've used intel most of my life until 2700x that a got a few months ago.
And i have to say i have no problems running games and doing work with it.
But this type of garbage intel is been pulling is the main reason they wont get a cent out of ever.
£599.99 in the UK for 9900k. Worth the upgrade? I think not.
That's almost 1/2 of an entire system :))
Vlad Dragos and you can get a Threadripper 1950X for around £600 at the minute so the 9900K doesn’t make sense for multi threaded applications either.
I priced up new mobo CPU ram and a aio. Came to £1450
Don't cheat, i said new. So add the case, ssd, GPU, PSU and obligatory RGB accessories :))
2700x is a way better deal. Or even better, wait for the 3700x.
Nicely done. Thanks man.
Intel are just digging that hole deeper and deeper...
I'm changing to AMD on my next build.
I won't support companies like this.
Forbes has covered this, intel responded to them with a letter that everything was done right and then some PR spew. GJ Dude, these companies need to get it through their thick skulls that the days of lying to their customers are long gone.
@11:59 Special Gamers Nexus content? **Claps hands excitedly** Oooh this is going to be good... time to get the popcorn ready.
Ha haha😜 ha. 🤣🍿Lols. 🍿
i.makeagif.com/media/10-09-2018/6jTh6E.gif :)
That's a great idea! I wonder if my Titan Xp with +900 mem gets the backplate hot enough to make popcorn... Only 1 way to find out!
I would use R9 Fury cards, but those run way cooler so my only other option is an ATI from 10 years ago with 32 Vram modules that can run about 70c+ on the backplate, unstable past 115c on the core and around 100c on the Vram. I just don't want to put old Catalyst drivers back on my system, LOL!
Just watched their interview with the company that did the tests
Time for AMD to sue intel for fraud.
After watching and reading about SO MUCH despicable behavior from Intel in the past 30 years it doesn't matter any more how good they are, I won't buy their products anymore. I'm waiting for Zen2 and a RX680. Anyone with a good moral compass would avoid Intel.
Another sobering video with... you know... FACTS!
with i9 9900k money , it can buy the 2700x with mobo. and the i9 9900k no cooler :) i cant see the ryzen killer :)
Plus it's an RGB cooler so +20% performance boost
@@RSBickAKaby agree with u say sir
Its really insane prices, my TR 1950x cost me less than $600... The board was under $300 (Tiachi, Newegg had them on a small sale). So it won't be much more than the "i9", which is pretty sad... My Ryzen 1700 with X370 and 16 GB of RAM is around $380 in value used, so its not like a 16 thread CPU should cost much (and a lot of my value estimate is RAM). That includes RGB stock cooler to go with the RGB board (unfortunately not RGB RAM though). The Intel prices are sky high!
Core i9 9900k, your wallet killer.
@@RSBickAKaby 😂
Great job on your video! As a consumer and lover of Intel CPUs, I find Intel's paid results deplorable. Makes me not want to ever buy another Intel CPU.
Hopefully the 9900k will make more developers optimize for 8c/16t, and the 2700x and 2700 will benefit too!
A reviewer, I forget who it was, said something similar to this "Doing a review comparison between a Mustang and an Escort doesn't equate to a proper review." If your tests are correct, 2700x is closer to 8700k. So, the 9900k technically doesn't have a competitor unless you jump to TR 1950. Sadly, a lot of people will just swallow companies' words as gospel truth.
Just buy 2700x. You can spend rest of your money to buy good aftermarket cooler and all RGB acessories to get Boost performance.
Who needs an aftermarket cooler when you could just get more RGB?
buy the 2700 x you can spend the rest of your money to buy all the other parts for your pc and get a boost in performance
@@hrshsmpt how much more fps can I get if I add 7 DVD drives to my system? Thanks
@Jack Williams good question jack I guarantee atleast 300 more fps for 7 dvd drives, the powerful usb lobby has been lying to the public for years, also if you add a floppy disk drive you'll get another 50 fps and rgb optimizes it all, makes your computer so fast it looks like its on fire
With the 2700x you get RGB cooler out of the box tho.
I applaud you for your commitment to honest journalism in everything you do. In addition thank you for shedding light on less than true sources. It can be a confusing world out there so thanks for making it just a little bit better.
Not only does Intel lie about their high average FPS but they also don't wanna discuss frame times, 0.1% lows, etc especially not dollar for dollar comparisons XD
AMD is the only one playing fair and it's painfully obvious
102 Intel employees watched this video... :-)
10-15% for double the money is Intel's usual price practice. Let's hope this time customers have the patience to wait for Zen2 on 7nm and then they decide what is the best and higher valued cpu to give their money to.
Extra! Extra! Read all about it: 'The Earth is flat, proves study comissioned by Intel'
My Ryzen 2600X, Asus maximus hero vii, GTX 1080 is fantastic and I never loose any sleep over intel.
Correction!! Asus Crosshair not Maximus, sorry......
That's the main problem... Intel will maybe half apologise when they're called out by the tech community and those in the know, but mainstream sites and media will just publish what Intel states as fact and the general public won't know any better. Even though everyone here knows better, Intel has already got the upper hand with the general public, and the extra sales will probably easily outpace the negative feedback from the tech community. Intel is "sorry" but not sorry.
> 2018 going into 2019
> Still buying Intel
This ain't it chief.
I use a i7 7700 for software development, if it was up to me there was a ryzen cpu in there.. too bad :(
@OneGoogleUser wish I could convince them :p but a silent swap Lmao
Intel playing dirty again, just like in the early 2000s.
So, let me get this straight: The new i9-9900k is in Ashes of the Singularity 50% faster than the 2700x IF you deactivate 4 cores on the 2700x AND run it on a stock cooler in LOW-Noise Mode, while the i9-9900k is getting a giant Noctua tower cooler in a case optimized for tower coolers.
Impressive intel, most impressive to be this much behind.
Intel shitting the bed again? Glad I got a Ryzen, very happy with the price & performance.
Interesting exposé, thanks. Unfortunately I think you may be right to suggest that many outlets will reproduces these results, and their readers/viewers will swallow them without questioning them. Also, this use of underhanded tactics (along with the hit job on Epyc) goes to demonstrate the pressure Intel has clearly been feeling in the last year or two.
Graph not to scale.
Also, consider me a dead man if there was ever a 50% gaming delta between Intel and AMD. While a delta is certainly there, only like 15% tops.
Suck on it Intel!
U do it first. 🤣💰💸🔊😊
Wow, that's low. Every new PC builder should watch this video before buying parts.
Thanks for calling out those bastards!!👍👍✌
Good on you for respecting an NDA you didn't have out of fairness to other people! Kudos!
That said, I hope everyone BREAKS their NDA due to this shady move.
Thank you for the honesty. Thats what we need, if someone tries to scam the userbase. Make people aware of it.
Why would I trust a paid benchmark? Benchmark are for 100% objective and fair comparison to make a clear decision. Paid benchmark are useless to me
Another generation, another intel scandal.
Another Intel fanboys being the very suckers that they are.
To further explain the discrepancies in the 2700x benchmarks, it’s seems it was running in Game Mode in Ryzen Master according to the white paper
Thank you for remaining objective and open minded. I cant stand the biasedness in other channels and will not name drop them because they don't deserve the advertisement. Keep up the good work guys!
Massive respect for not taking advantage of the sample without NDA!! you are the best!!
Edit: although considering that Intel is using the opertunity to misinforme people, you should release those benchmarks and ruine their evil plan.
@420J541 thinking of it I agree with you he should crush intel
he could legally post his results since the NDA is void the instant someone else publicly post benchmarks of the product
@Jesper: unfortunately no, the NDA is a signed non disclosure agreement until some date that is not rendered void by others that do not respect it. If they did that they would be liable of breach of contract.
4. Information provided by a third party
The NDA can also be invalidated where the Receiving Party received the confidential information not through your disclosure but through an entirely separate third party.
For example, if the Receiving Party received the confidential information through an independent supplier with no relationship to you, you cannot demand in your NDA that the Receiving Party keep that information confidential.
+10% more fps for double price... for most gamer money matters and can't buy the most expensive CPU, but there are always some player who wants 300 fps instead of 250 just to see bigger numbers, even if the extra fps barely matters if not competing and everything is clearly playable with the 2700X or the future 2800X which still will cost less.
"Principled" Technologies.... LOL. On a serious note though I am now not buying any 9000K part and will jump from my 7700K to a Ryzen 3000 part next year. There is litrally no difference at 1440p and although it's true that some day games will be demanding enough to open up a wider delta I don't keep parts after their warrenties expire anyway.
Honestly...9% for twice the price...how does this make any sense?
the i9 is going to be £599 here i can buy two 2700x cpus for that lol
And this is why I will NEVER buy intel. I would rather keep a amd 8320 for ten years than give money to intel. But thank god amd has the ryzen series and I don’t have to. Thank Hardware Unboxed for keeping it real.
I have to disagree, i would buy Intel if the value was there, and if temps was low. But right now, ryzen seems to have the lowest temps and the most value so thats what i have gone for. Intel needs a kick in the behind, they have become lazy and expensive, and very hot. Not that they are bad cpu's, but they used to do better then this when it comes to value and temp.
I bought an i5 3570 it was used and the value was there. Ryzen like performance for only $50 for the cpu and another $50 for a board. not to mention its DDR3 which I already had. Now buying new I would have to go with AMD
Ryzen like performance?? Are you kidding? Or maybe you are talking about 10 year old games which use 2 cores or 3?
Great video man! Very professional and infromative. Glad some of you can't be paid off. In 2500 years we haven't changed much! Damn I've played too much AC Odyseey!
This is exactly why I unsubbed from *ALL* of those other _tech_ channels. They'd rather not break an NDA and be a shill instead of informing the people, the ones that *SHOULD* matter to them. Good job to you steve for having a backbone
When the new Intel 9900k gets released, you'll have the option to buy that plus a high end z390 motherboard for $800 while you could get a 2700x and a high end x470 motherboard for $550..that's a big price gap for 10% or less.
They are going too far.
I like competition in CPU market.
But i don't like this thing.
At least in my opinion.
Is any one actually surprised Intel would manipulate results? I'll be sticking with the 2600 for my upgrade and saving myself $200🤣🤣🤣
Best decision ever. 2600 + B450 mobo + high frequency RAM = maximum value for money
@@aniMEanie01 yeah I'm already rocking a 1600 with a b350 and love it!
if you can wait for the 3600, it would be a better & smarter upgrade.
300$*
Same, just bought a 2600, i'm probably gonna sell it in April/May and get a 3000 series Ryzen.
I'd have to be honest, I never really clicked with this channel until today and the last few graphics card benchmarks. Awesome work, great content in particular this and the last few videos. I know I am a drop in the sea of literally hundreds of thousands of others and don't matter all that much but you got another subscriber. Can see a lot of effort is going into making great content.
@Hardware Unboxed
I'm not sure you are right on the RAM part.
There are no extremely loose latencies involved. The default/failsafe setting for the Memory is "auto". Auto will load the SPD settings instead of the XMP settings. However, all Corsair Vengeance RGB SKUs with 16GB sticks do ALL have their SPD settings at 2133/15-15-15-36 (see Corsair's product specifications). In fact, if they really did not enable XMP/D.O.C.P. and only manually increased the memory clock, they will actually have run at LOWER timings than the other platforms running the XMP timings of 15-16-16-35 or even CL16+. (Depending on the exact kit used. They only have one 64GB kit but with the given information I can't rule out the use of two 32GB kits or the like.)
Of course, if they really didn't set DOCP, this leaves another question: How did they run 2933 MHz without increasing the voltage?
On another topic: Come on... using 1080p at below max settings with a strong GPU for >>>CPU
Intel fanboys are still going to say Intel is superior because of gaming with minimal % in performance at 1440p
Well actually, intel in superior. But not like intel want's everybody to look at it. Intel still have the advantage they can clock their CPUs much higher than ryzen. Everything that it single-thread bound (which is still quite a lot because you always have a "main"-thread) will run a bit better on the intel architecture. But if you consider the price, well there is currently nothing as good as ryzen.
btw, I will also upgrade to ryzen (currently core i5 3570k) this year.
I really don't get it why they faked those benchmarks in their favor. They would win those benches without "cheating". So why would they do something like this. Just to justify their much higher prices?
Thats the thing, but they are only superior in gaming not both gaming and multi tasking. Why would they need to lie to consumers if they know they are better, like dont lie to loyal customers like they did with the 28 core cpu at computex. Thanks for the message, I think Ryzen helped us take a good leap in technology!
I reckon it's gonna be hilarious if ryzen at some stage ends up being better than intel for gaming, what are all those intel fanboys going to do.
As for me, I'm no fan of either, I use whatever cpu suits my needs, for the first 14 years of being a PC user I used amd cpus, I then didn't hesitate to jump ship to Intel as I needed the best ipc for a certain simulator I play which has a crap outdated game engine. I still play the same game but now I've swapped back to amd with the 2700x as I also do plenty of video encoding as well as gaming and the 2700x suited my needs in terms of price vs performance. Yes I've taken a slight hit on fps in the sim I play due to the slightly lower ipc and frequency but I can live with that and my next cpu upgrade will be one of the new zen 2 cpus.
They are ingnorant they really don't understand anything they just keep comparing FPS and that's it.
When amd was getting destroyed by Intel, i don't remember amd stooping so low. Intel has only been threatened by AMD, and is still mostly the top dog for regular consumers. Seeing this is embarrassing and shameful.
You'd think with something so easily discredited, a company wouldn't put such rubbish out there. I'm glad you and others are around to speak out to offences like that. It's crazy how in other industries when there are misleading articles published and someone with morals actually pushes back, they're discredited. I certainly hope that does not happen with you or any of the other tech reporters who put out such great content!
We don't need any "Commissioned Benchmarks"! We've got Steve! The Benchmarking Machine!
Great work Steve! And Tim!
Let's be real. Intel is going to use these results in their PR material.
I bet the new Amd threadripper 2920X will easily compete with Intel's cpu i9-9900K cpu
I think i dropped a tear when you said you will hold back with a review to make it fair for the other reviewers, that moved me. That deserves the outmost respect.
I really like the way you tech youtube guys communicate and respect each others work and bring nice and technically correct content to us. I am proud to be a subscriber to your channel and all the other guys out there like Jay, Paul, Steve GN, Kyle/Lyle, Brian TYC and others.
Keep up the good work and don't let the big companies intimidate you with their rules and crappy previews.
I say it again, Steve your the man! Respect to you and your channel.
EU Prices :
-9900K + Z390 Motherboard = 750+Euros minimum (depending on the mobo).
-2700X + X470 Motherboard = 450+Euros minimum (depending on the mobo).
No Brainer.
sigh, so pointless why are these companies so terrible at being any sort of good? just quit the BS and focus the money on improving the research/development. thanks for the video!
Honesty goes a long way, especially in this day and age, you got a new sub.
-> calls intel out for false marketing.
-> Links to their products in the description.
Intel being Intel
Intel is just mad that AMD is dominating the CPU market 2:1. Not to mention Intel is going through a wafer shortage, so of course prices are going to be gouged and sold out upon release. Whatever tactical advantage they can use to regain marketshare, they'll do it. Misleading or dodgy tactics for any company to boost preorder(preprofit) sales is a sham.
Literally free publicity for AMD.
Where I live, the 9900k costs almost twice as much as the 2700x, yikes.
Thanks for pointing this out! I saw this in print first (someone referencing your data) and skipped the article so I could get the business straight from the source. The GN content was enjoyable, too. Great that so many journalists are irate and so many viewers seem to either care or enjoy the show!
I know it'll never really happen, but if we complain enough and vote with our wallets and share on social media, maybe the big 3 will consider a little more honesty and stop with these ridiculous consumer-confusing product names, sketchy benchmarks, and paid reviews!!!
Not surprised. One could always hold off until next year when AMD releases their 7nm parts and see what Zen 2/Ryzen 3000 series has to offer performance wise 🤔
That's pretty much what I'm doing, I've been using an i5-6400T (... I know) for the past few years since I was desperate for a CPU at the time and got it for next to nothing. I'm most likely going with their Zen 2 and Vega gaming GPU's to make my first all AMD build. I've also been debating on waiting another two or three years for the new consoles to be announced and see what AMD has out on the market then, build my own "next gen" PC for all the fancy new games haha
@@mocoj7423 don't sweat it, I don't judge... if it's not broken and works just fine then why fix it, right?
This is more realistic, im not interested in Ryzen at all atm, however 7nm just might change that. If not ill just get a 9700k maybe the 9900k, because im in it for the frames, need the cpu upgrade for a lil boost in vr anyway.
Yeah I suspect Zen 2 (aka Ryzen 3000 series) will have a large performance uplift... it's essentially where they can implement all the IPC improvements they couldn't get into the first gen due to time constraints as well as new improvements they've come up with since (reportedly +15% over Zen+) AND fix any unforeseen issues they encountered - AND all this on a very significant node shrink (14 to 7nm) as well!
I will be upgrading my 6700K to a Ryzen 3000 chip, likely the 3700X (if that's what it ends up being called... the fastest 8C/16T SKU in any case).
already with the improvements they did on the memory side from Ryzen 1 to Ryzen 2, then I expect even more just there, which alone will benefit Ryzen by HEAPS, imagine running that with 4000MHz memory instead of ~3200-3600 (3200 was top in Ryzen 1, 3600 seems top in Ryzen 2 and it helped loads)
You have balls mate, thanks for being honest! Love your work
You honestly put so much effort into your videos, just know I appreciate you! ♥♥♥♥♥
On another note, yeah, it's like a dishonest attempt at doubling any youtuber's and techtubers in releasing sponsored results before the nda lifts, it's a douche / scumbag move from intel trying to steal the thunder from the day one release benchmark. Time for some kind of rebellion, i hope you guys commit to release honest, unbiased reviews, and show this cpu for what it really is, and we all know that if it has only a few % improvement over the already overpriced 8700K that it is a poor value. You know what ? Just release benchmarks of the 2700x going all the way to 4.5 ghz on a taichi motherboard (bclk overclock) vs the 9900K because even if you buy a TAICHI for ryzen 2700X you aren"t even reaching the price of the 9900K + a cheap /middle of the road motherboard. more than 200 bucks from it still.