The fact that doing that isn't standard practice by now is ridiculous. As soon as we all saw that one college player do it, reminding everyone it was legal, it should be happening each and every time.
@@Bulldogs117 none of those featured fake fair catches. they featured fake catches (with no fair catch signal). It is a penalty to return a kick after *anybody* on the receiving team calls fair catch (with an exception if the kicking team touches it first)
I saw this play elsewhere but the person talking about seemed confused. I thought “I can’t wait for Isaac to cover this because he will let us know” I’m happy to see it today. Edit: ah I’ve seen this before and it happened after a safety which seems like the only time you can use it. I was wondering why they were lined up like that. Thanks for more context than the other guy gave.
Under the current rules, a safety kick can now be either a free kick or a place kick, and you can use a tee for the latter. It makes no sense to attempt an onsides punt.
It would make sense if the other team lined up in a way that didn't defend against it at all, and the decision could be made on the spot. You want that in your bag of tricks to keep the return team closer to you rather than sitting back waiting. So you may not ever *do* it, but the threat has to exist.
Onside kicks rarely work, and they now have new options for kickoffs/safety punts so they're gonna try out the new options and see if they can get some positive film on their attempts. Aside from Jax-Cle the game was basically lost either way, might as well try out the new rules and see what happens.
Right, because if you punt it, you have to let the other team try to catch the ball. If you kick, it can hit the ground and the kicking team can recover.
I'd guess you would do it in hopes that the opponent fumbles in catching the ball. I noticed the punting team surrounding the player catching. If he drops the ball it's fair game.
PS: Great videos; have opened up my eyes to help me see how important special teams is. I'm a Chiefs fan (have been for decades) and your videos have helped me see just how solid of a non-controversial kicker Butker is and how the new and non-controversial punter Araiza is doing too. Appreciate you.
It's fun to see kicking strategies become more common in 4Dn American football. Special Teams should play a larger role in games as far as 'some fans' are concerned. heh heh... Thanks for posting. I enjoy your sense of humor.
Exactly, bounce it off the chest of a receiving player and hope for a ricochet with a favorable bounce. Hang time is irrelevant when your guys can jump on that ball in an instant.
All they gotta do is dodge it. I’m pretty sure this strat only worked when the other team caught them off guard during what seemed to be a normal kickoff
@@wv4776sure, but the current strat isnt working yet they run that on repeat anyway. If they dodge the beanball, you still get the ball further down thenfield at the very least.
@@IRanOutOfPhrasesI'm with you, or just squib it into the ground and hope for a good hop. Sky balling it towards the guys who are designated as the best hands on their team is LITERALLY playing into the hands of your opponent.
That is until you do the math: The field is about 50 yards wide, a player about 1. So the 11 players cover roughly 20% of the broad side which means that in all likelihood you miss them even if they don't dodge.
I'd have to agree that - as this film shows - there is little hope of having one of these high punts dropped. If I was going for the kick it straight at someone strategy, I think I'd aim to bounce it straight in front of them rather than drill them on the full.
"Drop punt" is something we would have come up with on our own anyhow, since the move is a hybrid of a punt and a drop kick. Drop kicks are rare as hen's teeth, but the rule has been there forever and there's no real reason to remove it. "Banana punt" is definitely a case of nicking someone else's vocabulary instead of inventing a new name for it though.
I don't understand the rule here (ie why aren't they allowed to boot the stuffing out of it and kick it to the other end) but it looks like the optimal strategy here is what we here in Australia call "woomerbanger" kicks: ugly, high, floating kicks that spin multiple ways in the air at random, and are an absolute nightmare to catch. Performed by basically kicking the belly of the ball but *ever so slightly* off centre. See Nathan Cleary and Adam Reynolds in rugby league for examples.
Everybody is thinking about the onside punt all wrong. You don't want to kick a mile high hanging spiral. You want to treat it like dodge ball and kick a really hard line drive knuckleball to intentionally hit the nearest defender. He'll try to catch it, but won't be able to react fast enough to do so. This actually works. Teams usually deploy wide receivers to the all-hands team and station them near the sidelines because that's where most onside kicks go. But teams can't carry 11 wide receivers on the game day roster, which means the rest of the receiving team are not accustomed to catching high velocity balls over short distance. If the kicker drills a low knuckle ball with the intention of hitting the nearest defender, the defender will attempt to catch the ball and most likely muff it. That puts the ball up for grabs where the kicking team outnumbers the receiving team because the receiving team has to drop at least a few players back in case the ball is kicked deep (see video above). If the ball hits the defender on a line drive and bounces, it likely bounces back to the kicking team. If the ball hits the ground and takes a weird hop as footballs often do, the defender may get a hand on the ball, but will likely tip it in the air or bobble it. If the defenders part like the red sea to avoid being hit, then it becomes a foot race to get to the ball. Depending on where the ball ends up, the kick coverage may be able to get there first. This actually happened in the 1985 IHSA playoffs: Hersey vs. Forest View. Forest View scored a touchdown to get within 7 with one minute to play in the 4th quarter. The coach instructed kicker to squib it up the middle as the field was extremely muddy and had no footing. If the ball landed between defenders, the kick team could get there first as they knew where the ball was going and could run straight to it whereas Hersey would have to react, turn, and chase. The kicker kicked a very hard line drive knuckleball, but he kicked it too low. The ball hit the facemask of the defender lined up directly opposite him, ricocheted very high into the air, then landed in the kicker's arms who immediately fell to the ground to end the play without losing any time off the clock. Forest View marched downfield and scored a TD on the last play of regulation to send the game into OT. After trading possessions a few times, Forest View won with a TD.
In Canadian football we have onside Punts. As long as someone is behind the punter ( or QB) he can go catch the punt. In the CFL you'll see a receiver go in motion then the Punter or QB will pooch punt it down the sidelines with the receiver running full speed and he has the right to catch it. As long as he was parallel or behind whoever punted the ball. It's an exciting play.
i think it would be a good idea to remove fair catches from onside kicks, it will make endings more interesting instead of just calling for a fair catch to end the game. They should have it like rugby, where the two teams jump and contest for it, but then to make it safe for the players, if the receiving team does catch the play ends, so no one gets lit up. This would make endings more interesting, onside kicks to have higher success rates, but still have player safety.
If they used the place kick that's booted straight into the ground and played on the bounce, then fair catches would not be possible because the ball has already hit the ground. (In other words, the old style conventional onside kick.)
@@mal2ksc I am thinking more like rugby, where you do a drop kick and try to get as much hang time, that way you can get a fast tall player to get under it and keep the ball
Yall should check out Kai Kroeger's (south carolina) drop kick onside vs alabama. Don't know if you can use that on a safety punt but it looked pretty unstoppable
I think it's actually a 15 yard landing zone but if it lands past it, it's an illegal kick and a penalty giving the receiving team the ball automatically.
@@IsaacPunts and, they get it in really good field position. They get it at the spot of the kick and then there is a 15 yard penalty enforced. In the Dolphins/Titans case, that meant that it was half the distance from the 20, and the Titans got it at the 10.
@@IsaacPunts If the receiving team gets the ball automatically, what's the point of doing it? I mean the same rules should apply on this punt as standard kickoff rules.
@@MrChrisdube Well you shouldn't kick it outside the landing zone, so there is no point of doing that. You should kick it in the field of play and force them to try to catch it
They should make the punt contestable like in rugby. You can’t hit the player that’s going for the ball unless you incidentally hit them in your own attempt to go for the ball. Blocking may be an issue as you cannot block players in rugby. You can stand in their path as long as you were already there but you can’t actively block a player. It would lead to some creative formations on the receiving team😂.
One thing I've thought of is that is it illegal to obstruct the view of the catcher somehow? Like someone from the kicking team holding a hand in front of his face. Or to be safer not to touch the catcher, jump so that your hand goes in front of the catcher's vision. Everyone knows that if youre trying to catch something and you lose sight of it even for a split second it becomes a lot harder. If that is not explicitly illegal by rule, the only risk is that you touch the catcher accidentally? And I believe in those scenarios that were in the video, there wouldn't be much to lose.
What do you think about for standard onside kicks that teams go to the drop kick and attempt to get height instead of relying on thw bounce or it bouncing off the hands
These don’t have to be punts. The new rules allow a normal kick after a safety, just from the 20. When the Ravens were tackled for a safety against the Bengals in week 5, Justin Tucker just blasted a kickoff to the Bengals 6. So teams could use their normal onside kick instead of these goofy punts. They could also do a drop kick instead of a punt as well. We need some more creative approaches.
Have the safety punt rules changed? Doesn't it seem better for the receiving team to just not have anybody near the landing spot since the punting team cannot recover their own punt without a muff?
Gotta say, the rugby full backs and fly halves have been effectively doing these as a "chip and chase" for years. I know the catchers cannot be in motion at the start, but how would a little dink to the sidelines go if the catchers were lined up on the outside?
If it's an onsides punt is it a live ball? Or does the receiving team have to muff/fumble/touch the ball in order for teh kicking team to regain posession? Seems to me that it's a free kick so the kciking team can try lots of things instead of kicking the ball in the air where the guy with the best hands on the other team can simply catch it and call it a day.
When the receiver catches an onside punt after having called for a fair catch, can the receiving team opt for a free field-goal kick from the point of the fair catch?
@@yayasquirrel But field goal attempts from a fair catch generally _are_ place kicks. Why is this a problem? I thought it was a rule that the person making the catch is the only one eligible to make the kick, though. If you don't kick it to the other team's kicker, you're good.
@@mal2ksc I looked it up, and the kicker does _not_ have to be the one who caught the ball. In the history of those rare times in the NFL when fair-catch kicks have been attempted, the fair-catch kicker has _always_ been the kicking team's regular placekicker (at least in modern history). And, fair-catch kicks are allowed for _any_ time a ball is caught as a fair catch, including during regular punts as well as during free kicks made following a safety.
If I understand the strategy, they're hoping the player will muff so they can recover because if the receiving team doesn't touch the kicked ball it is dead where it stops?
@@monteporche5552 - that’s because the rules were changed. If you go back twenty years to the rules in effect then, there were surprise inside kicks. The Eagles even opened a game with an onside kick against the Cowgirls once.
Honestly, couldn't a punter get trained in such a way to do a banana punt directly at a player? Like, drop it to the side, do a jump/turn kick and pelt someone? That'd be hard to get accurate, but if you could get it just right, you could absolutely smash the ball at 99 power into someone and be way more likely than this to convert the onside.
Isaac Punts, I'd like to know why more NFL teams don't try to make the kickoff a weapon. It seems most teams just blast the ball out the back, and let the opposition take it at the 30-yard line. Why don't teams do line-drive squib kicks, making sure the ball hits the turf, so that the returners have to field a bouncing ball? It seems that, on balance, this would win the field position battle and create a few turnovers.
@@yayasquirrel But if it's a line drive that's bouncing, the receiver would often have a hard time finding the handle, and wouldn't be able to get a good burst on their return. That should result in a lot of possessions that start short of the 30-yard line. It strikes me that would be better than letting the team start at the 30 most of the time.
@@NigelIncubatorJones Coordinators are risk-averse. A 100% chance of putting them at the 30 is better than a 99% chance of putting them as much as ten yards further back, but a 1% chance of an escape and long run or kick six. The game theory may not bear this out, but humans operate on emotion and it only takes one instance of getting burned at the wrong time to get fired.
So since every one of these was fair caught could the receiving team have used the "Fair Catch Kick"? In these cases would have only been 45 yards give or take
Potentially but then you are going for a chance at 3 points, killing zero seconds, before giving the other team the ball back to try and score 8. And if you miss, its like the other team recovering the onside punt
Is there a rule that you have to kick the ball way up in the air so the receiving team can fair catch it? Those just looked like bad short punts; not onside kicks in any way.
Also, all 4 of those were after a safety, so the kicker can't use a tee (free kick). I would imagine that onside kicks from a tee would be more traditional.
These kicking rules are stupid. No incentive to have any returns. Simplify, onside kick any time with old rules (when one side of the kickoff team ran to the other side to overload). Any touch back the receiving team gets the ball on the 10 yardline and if the ball is booted out of the endzone then the receiving team gets the ball on the 50.
Flag on Arizona for unsportsmanlike conduct. It is a rule somewhere that all the players cannot do a fair catch when it shouldn't be a fair catchable play.
I'll never understand why kickers dont just blast a ball at one of the onside teams players. The chance of the them catching it is almost nil and could bounce forward or in odd directions.
Nice examination but your conclusion is wrong. Because American rules allow a fair catch, and even more so in NFL rules now that there's a landing zone, you *do not want* hang time out of a kick like this. In fact if it were possible to deliver a kick as a topspin lob that would come down sooner, that's what you'd want. I've seen topspin soccer shots that behave that way (to get under the crossbar), don't know if it's feasible with the prolate ball; Aussie rules players would know by now, if there were any motivation in that game to make a faster-dropping ball, but I don't see such a reason.
Im an Aussie and I didnt know you could call fair catch on an onside kick. Why the hell would you ever kick it in the air rather than kick a grub ball along the ground. The shape of the ball makes the bouncing unpredictable and would give a way better chance of a fumble then just lofting it.
Hmm I'm not sure I like the rules around this right now. Seems kind of dumb that the kicking team is just useless, and it's just like a regular punt but shorter. At least onside kicks the kicking team can get the ball first if it's executed correctly. This is just hoping the other team drops it.
So they’re banking on the return man fucking up. It’s 0/4 but looking at these replays, these are not necessarily fly balls to center field. Almost looks as tough as catching any pass on a normal offensive play
Meta is short for meta game, which refers to changing your tactics across multiple games in response to your opponent's tactics in previous games. People also sometimes refer to The Meta meaning the current tactics most people are using.
Haven't looked at the rules for this one. Couldn't you just punt it as hard as you can kick it straight at someone on the other team and hope they can't handle the velocity and it bounces off of them?
Just because the ball is punted instead of kicked why would you let the reciever who calls for a fair catch actually catch the ball. I know you can't make contact with the player, but why can't you swat the ball out of the air (it has gone over 10 yards) and grab the loose ball. Just because they call for a fair catch does not give them "dibs" to the ball.
If you're going to go onside in that situation, why not just use your regular kicker instead of the punter? A safety doesn't require the kick to be a punt, does it? Couldn't you do the kick from a tee like a normal onside attempt?
Couldn't you just laser the punt as hard as possible to hit a player on the line of the other team? They couldn't catch it and with it touching them you can recover anywhere and with a good bounce off of them in theory it should be easy to recover
"with no controversy whatsoever" i just spat my drink out lmao
"there is no war in Ba Sing Se"
“There is no flag in Ba Sing Se”
There was another sam darnold no controversy sack last night
@@lorax8172 Darnold CLEARLY threw his head at the defender's arm
I read this comment before I started the video but hearing it live still made me laugh out loud.
All 11 cardinals signaling fair catch was so awesome lmao.
Why didn't the other receiving teams?
First thing you notice. It was beautiful
@@gwcrispi Slow learners.
The fact that doing that isn't standard practice by now is ridiculous.
As soon as we all saw that one college player do it, reminding everyone it was legal, it should be happening each and every time.
What could be more fair than letting everyone participate?
I am yet to find a UA-camr that goes into special teams better then this man here
Pat McAfee, but Isaac close second!
I like how every Cardinals player called fair catch at the same time.
That's why the "fair catch" (what a bunch of wimps) should be outlawed like in Canada.
which should be penalized. Only the person making the fair catch should be making the signal.
@@TumultuousTitanbad take. There have been some cool punt returns over the years with the fake fair catch on the other side of the field
@@Bulldogs117 none of those featured fake fair catches. they featured fake catches (with no fair catch signal). It is a penalty to return a kick after *anybody* on the receiving team calls fair catch (with an exception if the kicking team touches it first)
you had me at "the bears were getting smacked around by the cardinals."
I saw this play elsewhere but the person talking about seemed confused. I thought “I can’t wait for Isaac to cover this because he will let us know” I’m happy to see it today.
Edit: ah I’ve seen this before and it happened after a safety which seems like the only time you can use it. I was wondering why they were lined up like that. Thanks for more context than the other guy gave.
Special teams enjoyers 🤝 Isaac Punts
Under the current rules, a safety kick can now be either a free kick or a place kick, and you can use a tee for the latter. It makes no sense to attempt an onsides punt.
It would make sense if the other team lined up in a way that didn't defend against it at all, and the decision could be made on the spot. You want that in your bag of tricks to keep the return team closer to you rather than sitting back waiting. So you may not ever *do* it, but the threat has to exist.
Onside kicks rarely work, and they now have new options for kickoffs/safety punts so they're gonna try out the new options and see if they can get some positive film on their attempts. Aside from Jax-Cle the game was basically lost either way, might as well try out the new rules and see what happens.
Right, because if you punt it, you have to let the other team try to catch the ball. If you kick, it can hit the ground and the kicking team can recover.
I'd guess you would do it in hopes that the opponent fumbles in catching the ball. I noticed the punting team surrounding the player catching. If he drops the ball it's fair game.
PS: Great videos; have opened up my eyes to help me see how important special teams is. I'm a Chiefs fan (have been for decades) and your videos have helped me see just how solid of a non-controversial kicker Butker is and how the new and non-controversial punter Araiza is doing too. Appreciate you.
1:04 you can really put some WHAT into it?
some BUSSY. Ball Utility Strategic Sideline Yeild
Lolol
It's fun to see kicking strategies become more common in 4Dn American football. Special Teams should play a larger role in games as far as 'some fans' are concerned. heh heh... Thanks for posting. I enjoy your sense of humor.
id just aim at a player and 99power that b
underrated comment
Exactly, bounce it off the chest of a receiving player and hope for a ricochet with a favorable bounce. Hang time is irrelevant when your guys can jump on that ball in an instant.
I almost feel like my strategy would be to just beam the closest guy to the punter.
All they gotta do is dodge it. I’m pretty sure this strat only worked when the other team caught them off guard during what seemed to be a normal kickoff
@@wv4776sure, but the current strat isnt working yet they run that on repeat anyway.
If they dodge the beanball, you still get the ball further down thenfield at the very least.
@@IRanOutOfPhrasesI'm with you, or just squib it into the ground and hope for a good hop. Sky balling it towards the guys who are designated as the best hands on their team is LITERALLY playing into the hands of your opponent.
That is until you do the math: The field is about 50 yards wide, a player about 1. So the 11 players cover roughly 20% of the broad side which means that in all likelihood you miss them even if they don't dodge.
I'd have to agree that - as this film shows - there is little hope of having one of these high punts dropped. If I was going for the kick it straight at someone strategy, I think I'd aim to bounce it straight in front of them rather than drill them on the full.
Aussie here: I smiled when you 'naturally' dropped in 'drop punt' & 'banana punt' into your vocab. You've come a loooong way, young man! 🙃
"Drop punt" is something we would have come up with on our own anyhow, since the move is a hybrid of a punt and a drop kick. Drop kicks are rare as hen's teeth, but the rule has been there forever and there's no real reason to remove it.
"Banana punt" is definitely a case of nicking someone else's vocabulary instead of inventing a new name for it though.
I love that there is a channel devoted to special teams play. It is so underrated but so important.
I don't understand the rule here (ie why aren't they allowed to boot the stuffing out of it and kick it to the other end) but it looks like the optimal strategy here is what we here in Australia call "woomerbanger" kicks: ugly, high, floating kicks that spin multiple ways in the air at random, and are an absolute nightmare to catch. Performed by basically kicking the belly of the ball but *ever so slightly* off centre. See Nathan Cleary and Adam Reynolds in rugby league for examples.
1:06 put some WHAT into it??😂
Love your videos man ❤
Did he say put some bussy in it? 😂
he did
@@IsaacPunts Isaac Bunts (bussy punts)
Very genuinely extremely helpful
Everybody is thinking about the onside punt all wrong. You don't want to kick a mile high hanging spiral. You want to treat it like dodge ball and kick a really hard line drive knuckleball to intentionally hit the nearest defender. He'll try to catch it, but won't be able to react fast enough to do so. This actually works.
Teams usually deploy wide receivers to the all-hands team and station them near the sidelines because that's where most onside kicks go. But teams can't carry 11 wide receivers on the game day roster, which means the rest of the receiving team are not accustomed to catching high velocity balls over short distance. If the kicker drills a low knuckle ball with the intention of hitting the nearest defender, the defender will attempt to catch the ball and most likely muff it. That puts the ball up for grabs where the kicking team outnumbers the receiving team because the receiving team has to drop at least a few players back in case the ball is kicked deep (see video above). If the ball hits the defender on a line drive and bounces, it likely bounces back to the kicking team. If the ball hits the ground and takes a weird hop as footballs often do, the defender may get a hand on the ball, but will likely tip it in the air or bobble it. If the defenders part like the red sea to avoid being hit, then it becomes a foot race to get to the ball. Depending on where the ball ends up, the kick coverage may be able to get there first.
This actually happened in the 1985 IHSA playoffs: Hersey vs. Forest View. Forest View scored a touchdown to get within 7 with one minute to play in the 4th quarter. The coach instructed kicker to squib it up the middle as the field was extremely muddy and had no footing. If the ball landed between defenders, the kick team could get there first as they knew where the ball was going and could run straight to it whereas Hersey would have to react, turn, and chase. The kicker kicked a very hard line drive knuckleball, but he kicked it too low. The ball hit the facemask of the defender lined up directly opposite him, ricocheted very high into the air, then landed in the kicker's arms who immediately fell to the ground to end the play without losing any time off the clock. Forest View marched downfield and scored a TD on the last play of regulation to send the game into OT. After trading possessions a few times, Forest View won with a TD.
In Canadian football we have onside Punts. As long as someone is behind the punter ( or QB) he can go catch the punt. In the CFL you'll see a receiver go in motion then the Punter or QB will pooch punt it down the sidelines with the receiver running full speed and he has the right to catch it. As long as he was parallel or behind whoever punted the ball. It's an exciting play.
Yup , was doing them 30 years ago , we lined up a couple fast guys to wide side and would kick a dribbler and hope for the best
One step closer to just pelting the ball at the opponent and hoping for the best
i think it would be a good idea to remove fair catches from onside kicks, it will make endings more interesting instead of just calling for a fair catch to end the game. They should have it like rugby, where the two teams jump and contest for it, but then to make it safe for the players, if the receiving team does catch the play ends, so no one gets lit up. This would make endings more interesting, onside kicks to have higher success rates, but still have player safety.
If they used the place kick that's booted straight into the ground and played on the bounce, then fair catches would not be possible because the ball has already hit the ground. (In other words, the old style conventional onside kick.)
@@mal2ksc I am thinking more like rugby, where you do a drop kick and try to get as much hang time, that way you can get a fast tall player to get under it and keep the ball
Yall should check out Kai Kroeger's (south carolina) drop kick onside vs alabama. Don't know if you can use that on a safety punt but it looked pretty unstoppable
We need the CFL version of the onside punt.
watching every Cardinal on the field waving for a fair catch is so fucking funny
Love your videos. What's the rules on if the ball drops/if a kicking team player catches it after 10 yards?
I think it's actually a 15 yard landing zone but if it lands past it, it's an illegal kick and a penalty giving the receiving team the ball automatically.
@@IsaacPunts Ok cool thanks!
@@IsaacPunts and, they get it in really good field position. They get it at the spot of the kick and then there is a 15 yard penalty enforced. In the Dolphins/Titans case, that meant that it was half the distance from the 20, and the Titans got it at the 10.
@@IsaacPunts If the receiving team gets the ball automatically, what's the point of doing it? I mean the same rules should apply on this punt as standard kickoff rules.
@@MrChrisdube Well you shouldn't kick it outside the landing zone, so there is no point of doing that. You should kick it in the field of play and force them to try to catch it
I've been noticing these odd kicks as of late.... Isaacpunts da 🐐!!
"the Titans special teams coach not knowing what's going on" ...brother that's been his entire season
Would make things really interesting if they brought back dropkick field goals. Lol.
1:06 I actually almost choked on my food I wasn't expecting that at all
I was doing on-side punts 30 years ago.
They should make the punt contestable like in rugby. You can’t hit the player that’s going for the ball unless you incidentally hit them in your own attempt to go for the ball.
Blocking may be an issue as you cannot block players in rugby. You can stand in their path as long as you were already there but you can’t actively block a player.
It would lead to some creative formations on the receiving team😂.
Ngl, thought you were talking about the CFL. Punting and kicking is so much better
One thing I've thought of is that is it illegal to obstruct the view of the catcher somehow? Like someone from the kicking team holding a hand in front of his face. Or to be safer not to touch the catcher, jump so that your hand goes in front of the catcher's vision. Everyone knows that if youre trying to catch something and you lose sight of it even for a split second it becomes a lot harder.
If that is not explicitly illegal by rule, the only risk is that you touch the catcher accidentally? And I believe in those scenarios that were in the video, there wouldn't be much to lose.
Onside kick rules change are the worst probable change in football history.
What do you think about for standard onside kicks that teams go to the drop kick and attempt to get height instead of relying on thw bounce or it bouncing off the hands
These don’t have to be punts. The new rules allow a normal kick after a safety, just from the 20. When the Ravens were tackled for a safety against the Bengals in week 5, Justin Tucker just blasted a kickoff to the Bengals 6. So teams could use their normal onside kick instead of these goofy punts. They could also do a drop kick instead of a punt as well. We need some more creative approaches.
Check out the "spiral bomb" in rugby. Extremely difficult to catch.
Have the safety punt rules changed? Doesn't it seem better for the receiving team to just not have anybody near the landing spot since the punting team cannot recover their own punt without a muff?
PUT SOME BUSSY INTO IT ?!?!?!?!
i wanna see a team go for the untimed free kick if this happens again
Gotta say, the rugby full backs and fly halves have been effectively doing these as a "chip and chase" for years. I know the catchers cannot be in motion at the start, but how would a little dink to the sidelines go if the catchers were lined up on the outside?
The bussy meta is strange.
Missed out on a viable fair catch kick opportunity.
If it's an onsides punt is it a live ball? Or does the receiving team have to muff/fumble/touch the ball in order for teh kicking team to regain posession? Seems to me that it's a free kick so the kciking team can try lots of things instead of kicking the ball in the air where the guy with the best hands on the other team can simply catch it and call it a day.
When the receiver catches an onside punt after having called for a fair catch, can the receiving team opt for a free field-goal kick from the point of the fair catch?
@@yayasquirrel But field goal attempts from a fair catch generally _are_ place kicks. Why is this a problem? I thought it was a rule that the person making the catch is the only one eligible to make the kick, though. If you don't kick it to the other team's kicker, you're good.
Pretty sure ANY fair catch can be followed up by a place/drop kick FG
@@mal2ksc I looked it up, and the kicker does _not_ have to be the one who caught the ball. In the history of those rare times in the NFL when fair-catch kicks have been attempted, the fair-catch kicker has _always_ been the kicking team's regular placekicker (at least in modern history). And, fair-catch kicks are allowed for _any_ time a ball is caught as a fair catch, including during regular punts as well as during free kicks made following a safety.
I couldn't tell. Does it come off with an end over end spin? If not, that might cause even more trouble if it can be done.
I'm a simple man, shit on Colt Anderson and i will upvote
When did the safety kick turn into a punt vs a kickoff? This year?
Does the recieving team have to field it? Or can they just let it land?
haha, "then baby put me in the hospital"
If I had a nickel for every onside put this season I'd have 4 nickels, which isn't that many but it's weird that it's happened 4 times
If I understand the strategy, they're hoping the player will muff so they can recover because if the receiving team doesn't touch the kicked ball it is dead where it stops?
4th and 15 at the 50 is the only viable onside attempt in my opinion.
You can only do this after a safety, otherwise you can't catch your own punt.
The entire Cardinal team: 🙋🙋🙋
An onside kick that is not a surprise ruins the entire point.
How so? Surprise onside kicks simply don't happen. Last year, there were almost 3,000 kickoffs, and there were TWO surprise onside kicks.
@@monteporche5552 - that’s because the rules were changed. If you go back twenty years to the rules in effect then, there were surprise inside kicks. The Eagles even opened a game with an onside kick against the Cowgirls once.
🍌
1:18 Titans special teams coordinator still doesn't know what's going on in week 8
Can there be a kick that goes powerfully straightforward and try to hit the opposing team's player?
The packers did it against the vikings to
could you try and smoke a punt directly at the guy closest to the punter?
Honestly, couldn't a punter get trained in such a way to do a banana punt directly at a player? Like, drop it to the side, do a jump/turn kick and pelt someone? That'd be hard to get accurate, but if you could get it just right, you could absolutely smash the ball at 99 power into someone and be way more likely than this to convert the onside.
Can’t the receiving team just let the punt bounce? Or is it a live ball once it hits the ground?
It's live once it hits the ground
Isaac Punts, I'd like to know why more NFL teams don't try to make the kickoff a weapon. It seems most teams just blast the ball out the back, and let the opposition take it at the 30-yard line. Why don't teams do line-drive squib kicks, making sure the ball hits the turf, so that the returners have to field a bouncing ball? It seems that, on balance, this would win the field position battle and create a few turnovers.
@@yayasquirrel But if it's a line drive that's bouncing, the receiver would often have a hard time finding the handle, and wouldn't be able to get a good burst on their return. That should result in a lot of possessions that start short of the 30-yard line. It strikes me that would be better than letting the team start at the 30 most of the time.
@@NigelIncubatorJones Coordinators are risk-averse. A 100% chance of putting them at the 30 is better than a 99% chance of putting them as much as ten yards further back, but a 1% chance of an escape and long run or kick six. The game theory may not bear this out, but humans operate on emotion and it only takes one instance of getting burned at the wrong time to get fired.
@@mal2ksc Yeah, I figure that has to be a part of it. But it seems like there's an opportunity here, for a forward-thinking coach to gain an edge.
So since every one of these was fair caught could the receiving team have used the "Fair Catch Kick"? In these cases would have only been 45 yards give or take
Potentially but then you are going for a chance at 3 points, killing zero seconds, before giving the other team the ball back to try and score 8. And if you miss, its like the other team recovering the onside punt
01:06 as well as you can really WHAT
Why not blast a line drive at an up man and wait for the ricochet?
Is there a rule that you have to kick the ball way up in the air so the receiving team can fair catch it? Those just looked like bad short punts; not onside kicks in any way.
Also, all 4 of those were after a safety, so the kicker can't use a tee (free kick). I would imagine that onside kicks from a tee would be more traditional.
@@snowcat8971 Actually, under the new "dynamic kickoff" rules, the safety kick can be a free kick or a place kick, and you're allowed to use a tee.
@@mph7282 Interesting. Thanks for the correction
1:07 WHAT
you forgot the onside kick from last night's colt's viking's game
That was not an onside Punt
Punt? Or free kick?
These kicking rules are stupid. No incentive to have any returns. Simplify, onside kick any time with old rules (when one side of the kickoff team ran to the other side to overload). Any touch back the receiving team gets the ball on the 10 yardline and if the ball is booted out of the endzone then the receiving team gets the ball on the 50.
BTW, THAT ONSIDE KICKOFF IS ALSO OLD
Obviously I'm wrong or the rule was changed, but I thought an onside kick had to hit the ground?
Flag on Arizona for unsportsmanlike conduct. It is a rule somewhere that all the players cannot do a fair catch when it shouldn't be a fair catchable play.
I'll never understand why kickers dont just blast a ball at one of the onside teams players. The chance of the them catching it is almost nil and could bounce forward or in odd directions.
Nice examination but your conclusion is wrong. Because American rules allow a fair catch, and even more so in NFL rules now that there's a landing zone, you *do not want* hang time out of a kick like this. In fact if it were possible to deliver a kick as a topspin lob that would come down sooner, that's what you'd want. I've seen topspin soccer shots that behave that way (to get under the crossbar), don't know if it's feasible with the prolate ball; Aussie rules players would know by now, if there were any motivation in that game to make a faster-dropping ball, but I don't see such a reason.
Bears punter is an Aussie
NFL's new kickoff rules (and whatever the hell this is) didn't fix shit.
#4 is dumb...the receiving team can just call for a fair catch.
Is it illegal to ground ball kick it right at an opposing player?
No, it's just a very low percentage play.
SKOL
Call me anti-fun, but I think the NFL needs to get rid of the punt requirement for safeties. Just let teams attempt onside kicks.
Im an Aussie and I didnt know you could call fair catch on an onside kick. Why the hell would you ever kick it in the air rather than kick a grub ball along the ground. The shape of the ball makes the bouncing unpredictable and would give a way better chance of a fumble then just lofting it.
Hmm I'm not sure I like the rules around this right now. Seems kind of dumb that the kicking team is just useless, and it's just like a regular punt but shorter. At least onside kicks the kicking team can get the ball first if it's executed correctly. This is just hoping the other team drops it.
ISACC
You're missing at least 6 other punts from Sunday, Where do you come up w your knowledge ...
Dang
So they’re banking on the return man fucking up. It’s 0/4 but looking at these replays, these are not necessarily fly balls to center field. Almost looks as tough as catching any pass on a normal offensive play
Drop kick is the smartest way to onside kick. Punting is dumb.
What does the narrator mean by punt meta?
Meta is short for meta game, which refers to changing your tactics across multiple games in response to your opponent's tactics in previous games. People also sometimes refer to The Meta meaning the current tactics most people are using.
Haven't looked at the rules for this one. Couldn't you just punt it as hard as you can kick it straight at someone on the other team and hope they can't handle the velocity and it bounces off of them?
Just because the ball is punted instead of kicked why would you let the reciever who calls for a fair catch actually catch the ball. I know you can't make contact with the player, but why can't you swat the ball out of the air (it has gone over 10 yards) and grab the loose ball. Just because they call for a fair catch does not give them "dibs" to the ball.
Aren't these free kicks and not punts, which are kicks from scrimmage?
If you're going to go onside in that situation, why not just use your regular kicker instead of the punter? A safety doesn't require the kick to be a punt, does it? Couldn't you do the kick from a tee like a normal onside attempt?
As of 2024, yes. An onsides "punt" makes zero sense.
@@mph7282 To be fair, they ruined the onside kick also.
"ThE OnSiDe PuNt MeTa..." *shutup*
Couldn't you just laser the punt as hard as possible to hit a player on the line of the other team? They couldn't catch it and with it touching them you can recover anywhere and with a good bounce off of them in theory it should be easy to recover
That works ONCE, and maybe not even that time if you fail to execute perfectly.
It's not a punt, it's a kick, and aren't the kickers doing the onside kicks?
You can put some WHAT into it??
You heard me
@IsaacPunts LMAO. Yeah, I guess I did.
How can you tell someone doesn't know shit about footbal...When they call a kickoff a punt
Couldn’t you just aim at someone directly and try to bankshot off of someone?
Having an Aussie kick what is essentially a rugby free kick is just cheating