This German jet ran out of fuel!? | Hapag-Lloyd flight 3378

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  • Опубліковано 15 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 622

  • @GreenDotAviation
    @GreenDotAviation  Рік тому +31

    If you found this video interesting, consider supporting my work on Patreon, which gets you early access to new videos! 🟢www.patreon.com/GreenDotAviation

    • @sparrowbe4k802
      @sparrowbe4k802 Рік тому +1

      Good vid, but if your landing gear won't retract then you rtb asap. There's all sorts of problems with flying gear down. I'd like Mentour Pilot to cover this one. (if he hasn't already).

    • @sparrowbe4k802
      @sparrowbe4k802 Рік тому +1

      Especially if you don't know WHY the gear won't retract. (Hydraulics etc.) If the hydraulics have failed to retract the gear then what other flight controls might soon fail. I don't like this one.

    • @tonyroy8123
      @tonyroy8123 Рік тому

      Far too much commenatary. Unnecessary.

  • @darthvader7684
    @darthvader7684 Рік тому +333

    Props for the first officer to raising various concerns and plans, he seems to have done excellently, especially for such a green pilot! Props to him.

    • @panther7748
      @panther7748 Рік тому +23

      But when the captain did nothing, he should've declared a fuel emergency or even mayday himself. This may require a lot of courage and probably doesn't improve collegiality, but it's better than letting yourself and hundreds of people getting killed by an arrogant moron.

    • @horrido666
      @horrido666 Рік тому +3

      Beg to disagree. The incompetency of this crew is off the charts.

    • @demoncloud6147
      @demoncloud6147 Рік тому +2

      Because he is secretly the real captain

  • @eldebo99
    @eldebo99 2 роки тому +201

    I appreciate the displays being so in sync with the narrative, especially the engine 1 failure checklist appearing then seeing all the displays wink out after losing engine 2.

    • @GreenDotAviation
      @GreenDotAviation  2 роки тому +40

      I’m glad!

    • @Knightlight02
      @Knightlight02 Рік тому +27

      Im a system specialist on A330/A350/A380 and i can vouch. The details in all the videos for Airbus Aircraft are ON POINT.
      An FMS FUEL PRED UNRELIABLE message can be seen on the aircraft i mentionned, im assuming due this incident!

    • @Jszar
      @Jszar 11 місяців тому +2

      @@GreenDotAviationNarration and displays moving in synchrony helps laypeople quite a bit, too. We can pause and zoom in on what's changed, getting some idea what the pilot's field of view would have been and the visual priority each indicator has.

    • @jakeofspurs-pj7it
      @jakeofspurs-pj7it 9 місяців тому

      What software is used for these sims?

    • @Drugiekontonayt
      @Drugiekontonayt 4 місяці тому +1

      @@jakeofspurs-pj7itthis is xplane and inibulids a310, but aviation related channels usually use MSFS because it has better visuals

  • @Doogle136
    @Doogle136 2 роки тому +304

    I just began to follow this channel in the last 10 days and I can't applaud the narrative and graphic presentations enough. Among the countless other aviation channel subscriptions, there isn't one I know of that lays out the story more cogently. Brilliant work Green Dot Aviation. Thanks so much!

    • @GreenDotAviation
      @GreenDotAviation  2 роки тому +36

      Thank you very much for the kind words! :)

    • @derp8575
      @derp8575 2 роки тому +2

      @@GreenDotAviation Their radio wasn't working, yet radio communications were 100% for the moon landings. NASA must have top secret technology.

    • @MarkPentler
      @MarkPentler Рік тому +8

      @@derp8575 🤦‍♂️
      Fitting name

    • @derp8575
      @derp8575 Рік тому +2

      @@MarkPentler You don't find it odd?

    • @tuliosouzaa
      @tuliosouzaa Рік тому +5

      @@derp8575 You literally know absolutely nothing about how radio works, right?

  • @SuperNuclearUnicorn
    @SuperNuclearUnicorn 3 роки тому +285

    I love how the hubris of the captain in trying to avoid looking bad by doing the right thing and declaring a fuel emergency ended up making him look even worse when he crashed and then got exposed on the cockpit recorder as ignoring safety and being arrogant

    • @se-kmg355
      @se-kmg355 2 роки тому +8

      It is like KL4805 all over again.

    • @troodon1096
      @troodon1096 Рік тому +17

      Crashing the plane also looks bad and has the added disincentive that you might not survive to defend your actions.

    • @enflamedhuevos
      @enflamedhuevos Рік тому +4

      ⁠@@troodon1096Yes, but crashing has the added incentive of meaning you probably won’t have to have any repercussions

    • @musicaldoge9412
      @musicaldoge9412 Рік тому +1

      If you crash the plane, who’ll be there to complain?

    • @henningniehues8023
      @henningniehues8023 Рік тому +1

      He's just the best example of the classic german boomer at work. they're all like that, just usually human lives arent at stake

  • @SayaAensland
    @SayaAensland 2 роки тому +620

    First officer: We're burning fuel way faster than the FMS says, the FMS is obviously, visibly incapable of providing accurate information about fuel consumption with gear-down flight, we're going to run out of fuel, we need to divert to the nearest airport NOW!
    Captain: This is fine.

    • @isbestlizard
      @isbestlizard Рік тому +22

      FO: Sure whatever idc it's not like if we run out of fuel I'm going to die or anything

  • @masr8875
    @masr8875 2 роки тому +399

    The captain should've stuck to his story and do a PA welcoming the passengers into Vienna

    • @artrathousky2878
      @artrathousky2878 2 роки тому +7

      Lol

    • @andykeith1
      @andykeith1 2 роки тому +53

      In his mind he made an almost textbook landing. Just a couple of small scratches to the wing 😅

    • @noob.168
      @noob.168 Рік тому +15

      @@andykeith1 Ryanair is hiring a pilot that does solid landings.

    • @SuperLordHawHaw
      @SuperLordHawHaw Рік тому +39

      "We won't have to worry about a fire if we crash. You need fuel for that."

    • @wgroenewald
      @wgroenewald Рік тому +8

      My thoughts exactly as I watched. Pilot was right, they did make it to the runway in Vienna

  • @321southtube
    @321southtube 2 роки тому +63

    I got 3 things from this video. 1. It's "ok" to fly with the gear down but actually it's not. 2. Confirmation bias, complacency and laziness will always lead you to something bad and 3. Green Dot Aviation as usual puts out fantastic, well narrated videos with outstanding Sims and graphics.

    • @troodon1096
      @troodon1096 Рік тому +6

      Well it's "OK" in the sense that the plane is capable of flight; however the increased drag means it will consume fuel much more quickly; this means the fuel you planned to use is now not enough to reach your originally intended destination.

    • @Person01234
      @Person01234 3 місяці тому

      @@troodon1096 It's "ok" in the sense that the plane won't immediately fall out of the sky, but it's not in the sense of wtf are you doing trying to fly all the way to your destination with the gear down, are you on drugs? Turn around and get the broken plane fixed.

    • @JohnTom-p1n
      @JohnTom-p1n 3 місяці тому

      ​@@Person01234 Why don't they teach to turn back then?

  • @TheLukaszpg
    @TheLukaszpg 2 роки тому +149

    How many tries did it take you on the FS to get such a realistic crash landing across the taxi way? Well done

    • @sleazymeezy
      @sleazymeezy 2 роки тому +29

      Jokes on us, that was a legit captain trying to land.

  • @blackvulcan100
    @blackvulcan100 3 роки тому +165

    So safety first was not the captains priority, a miracle no lives lost.

    • @nakulkrejimon
      @nakulkrejimon Рік тому +5

      Vienna must be a heck of a place lol

  • @polduseri909
    @polduseri909 2 роки тому +234

    Airline motto: “Safety is our main concern”
    Pilot: “hold my beer”

    • @sleazymeezy
      @sleazymeezy 2 роки тому +14

      Yea, with how much we were told that flying is super safe there sure as shit are alot of aviation disaster videos out there

    • @neilmartin1111
      @neilmartin1111 Рік тому +10

      @@sleazymeezy algorithms' you watch one crash video and get bombarded with loads lol, and I used to love flying !

    • @tejaspathak7298
      @tejaspathak7298 Рік тому +3

      More like hold my gear

    • @muhamadsayyidabidin3906
      @muhamadsayyidabidin3906 Рік тому +2

      ​@@sleazymeezytechnically it still is the safest way to travel, seconds only to train perhaps. Ships accident are more common, and even higher number for road crash. If you asked me, I would rather travel in a train or an airplane rather than riding a bus, thank you.

  • @Randy-mw1es
    @Randy-mw1es Рік тому +51

    It's a miracle he got that close to that airport and had a wide open flat space to land the air plane

  • @lewiscurry562
    @lewiscurry562 Рік тому +30

    There are some great aircraft content makers on UA-cam this channel is particularly exceptional - I wish you the greatest success!

  • @philippgabler5835
    @philippgabler5835 Рік тому +11

    I live near Graz and every time I heard about that flight I always wondered why they didn't land here in Graz. Now I have an idea!
    Thanks for your videos!

  • @XiaoChaCha
    @XiaoChaCha 2 роки тому +50

    What a motivating story. If you are determined to reach your destination, you will evetually get there, even though in pieces.

  • @Airman..
    @Airman.. Рік тому +26

    The Pilot weighted company's loyalty over passengers safety

  • @josephconnor2310
    @josephconnor2310 2 роки тому +17

    Very illuminating. I wasn't familiar with this incident. It's great that there was no loss of life.

  • @garfarrell
    @garfarrell 3 роки тому +49

    Computer says no! Fantastic video. Very well put together as always. Another aircrash that I was not previously familiar with! Well done!!

    • @GreenDotAviation
      @GreenDotAviation  3 роки тому +6

      Thanks again Gary! Glad you enjoyed it

    • @moiraatkinson
      @moiraatkinson 3 роки тому +8

      Same. I’m enjoying this newly found channel particularly because almost all the videos I’ve watched are new material to me, which is hard to find after a while. I think it’s amazing how anyone can put graphics together because I wouldn’t have a clue, particularly when it switches to a real photo of the plane.

  • @k.5037
    @k.5037 10 місяців тому +1

    I really enjoy Green Dot videos. You do a fantastic job. I especially like that you cover crashes that I've never seen on any of the other aviation channels. Keep the great content coming, thanks

  • @adityabee1
    @adityabee1 Рік тому +10

    In July, 2017 an Air india flight (probably an A320) from Kolkata to Mumbai had to land at Nagpur when the crew discovered they had forgotten to retract the landing gear and were running out of fuel.

  • @jbconno
    @jbconno 3 роки тому +45

    To be fair though, he did make it to Vienna ;-) Great videos, keep up the good work.

    • @anadubar4819
      @anadubar4819 2 роки тому +1

      He was an idiot but also a brilliant pilot.

    • @jaycee145
      @jaycee145 2 роки тому

      😂😂😂

    • @squirrelhallowino29
      @squirrelhallowino29 Рік тому +3

      I just feel irritated that he didn't kept the altitude. Like sure maybe something is not right, but just aviate the god damn plane brother, keep the altitude so if there really is a problem you can just glide there. Also he could've just kept the engines at idle up there, and power up on final. This is such a dumb crash idk

    • @Rage-_-Quit
      @Rage-_-Quit Рік тому +5

      Literally like in a videogame where you crash but your wreckage passing the finish line still counts lol

    • @patmx5
      @patmx5 Рік тому

      Maxwell Smart voice *Missed it by that much*

  • @justuskaffenberger863
    @justuskaffenberger863 3 місяці тому +1

    I dont know why but your videos kind of give me that winter day-cuddle up in bed- feeling. Also always watch them when im sick and can only lay on bed. Thanks for your content

  • @Glen.Danielsen
    @Glen.Danielsen 3 роки тому +42

    Beautiful graphics. Also excellent narration. 💛🙏🏼

    • @GreenDotAviation
      @GreenDotAviation  3 роки тому +5

      Thank you 😀

    • @jack002tuber
      @jack002tuber 2 роки тому +3

      These are great videos. Well done. 👍

    • @mtm4a
      @mtm4a 2 роки тому +1

      @Andrew_koala - Thank you Andrew. I have been reluctant to make any comment about the speed of the commentary because all those making comments on this channel exclusively praise the presentation, for many good reasons.
      One small example here was my inability to clearly identify the name of the alternative airport to Vienna and Zagreb. Through a bit of research, I have concluded that it was *Graz* in Austria.
      Did anyone hear that clearly first time around, even though the name was repeated two or three times in the commentary?!
      I know it's perhaps an insignificant point, but a place name in these circumstances still matters!

  • @Dakiraun
    @Dakiraun 3 роки тому +99

    Again, so interesting to see how one single thing - a bolt - starts a series of small mistakes that compound into a disaster (albeit one that thankfully was not deadly). I think it also illustrates the issue of computer-reliance. All too often it is "assumed" the computer knows everything, but in this case, it can only know what it was programmed to know about fuel consumption calculations. My wife's grandmother was one of the first female pilots in Canada, and in those days, you had to fly by what few analogue systems you had, and one heck of a lot of knowledge and understanding of flight. The one thing it seems we are slowly losing is as things becoming increasingly automated and computerized, that hands-on knowledge of how to fly manually is diminishing.

    • @fluffy-fluffy5996
      @fluffy-fluffy5996 3 роки тому +5

      Yeah it should accommodate us, but not replace being able to actually calculate and have knowledge now lost due to heavy reliance on computers.
      I think if I would ever become a pilot (I would love to but hey, the money just for the license and then have access to a place is not within my reach whatsoever. So I’ll reinstall msfs2020 and try there with my joystick and just one throttle lol. Or crash myself on the mobile ones. However, if I could, I’d like the less computerized ones so I can actually fly manually and keep sharp about fuel, oillevels, take off speed and landing speed (and weight in case I would be flying to small villages in nowhereland and drop food and medical things) and all the things now generally calculated by a computer and only landing and take off are still manually done though many planes could even land themselves. I know that’s a time of high workload but imagine you basically have 15minutes or less on a 10h flight.

    • @Dakiraun
      @Dakiraun 3 роки тому +11

      @@fluffy-fluffy5996 Yeah - to a similar degree, it's like all these new automated driving assistance things in cars. I would MUCH rather see money put towards creating (and enforcing) good drivers instead of relying on the car to do more and more _for_ the driver.

    • @jack002tuber
      @jack002tuber 2 роки тому +8

      The addition of training on WHAT TO DO IF THE GEAR WON'T GO UP would have done all they needed

    • @fairyprincess911
      @fairyprincess911 2 роки тому +5

      There are some who watch flight channels who are convinced planes should be totally computerized 🙀🙀🙀

    • @jack002tuber
      @jack002tuber 2 роки тому +4

      @@fairyprincess911 I think they have too many computers now

  • @godlessblessings7020
    @godlessblessings7020 Рік тому +1

    Thanks!

  • @Miki99432
    @Miki99432 4 місяці тому +1

    I know it's weird but these videos are so relaxing for me. I assume because of his voice and the way he present it, however I learned so much from these videos that I could potentially try to land a plane if both pilots die. I know I would most likely fail but I know a lot about how planes work since i start watching this channel :)

  • @adamwallace0929
    @adamwallace0929 3 роки тому +19

    Brilliant video, quickly becoming my favourite aviation accident channel

  • @jack002tuber
    @jack002tuber 2 роки тому +28

    If I was the FO and know the computer was not giving my the right info I would take a stopwatch ( I have one on my watch) and record the fuel loss over time. Then tell the capt we have N hours, min left in the tank. Simple to do.

    • @se-kmg355
      @se-kmg355 2 роки тому +16

      And that is being done by routine on every flight, and as mentioned in the video they discovered they had consumed 60& more fuel than the flight plan estimate, however they made up an excuse that the climb to cruise uses more fuel.

    • @bluedistortions
      @bluedistortions 4 місяці тому

      ​@@se-kmg355 If they were so convinced that was true, the above suggestion would have proven or disproven this theory in minutes. They didnt seem to think any of this through very logically.

  • @petervandolah5322
    @petervandolah5322 2 роки тому +35

    Don't let that Captain off the hook ...
    He blew it with his inflexibility and arrogance ...
    The FO would make a great Captain ...
    Great videos !

    • @javasrevenge7121
      @javasrevenge7121 2 роки тому +3

      Agreed.

    • @troodon1096
      @troodon1096 Рік тому +4

      To be fair, he wasn't let off the hook. He spent 6 months in jail and lost his flight license.

    • @bluedistortions
      @bluedistortions 4 місяці тому

      Agreed, to show you how bad it was, all he had to do was maintain cruising altitude a bit longer than normal at a reduced speed, even if only once the low fuel warning sounded, and he would have made it. But he didn't do even that, he just acted like this was a normal landing, because he didn't want to do anything that was out of the ordinary to avoid some perceived professional embarrassment.

  • @falanglao01
    @falanglao01 2 роки тому +8

    I remember that aircraft remained on site at VIE for many years until the legal case was finally settled. I know the guy who drove the pushback tractor used to tow away the wreck. Interesting story, luckily noone was hurt.

    • @troodon1096
      @troodon1096 Рік тому +3

      26 people were injured but thankfully none fatally or seriously.

  • @Steveman61
    @Steveman61 3 роки тому +833

    He should have turned back right after take off. That is what 99 out of 100 pilots had done. The decision to keep going was simply dumb.

    • @someguy4915
      @someguy4915 3 роки тому +4

      @@justinepaula-robilliard Can't find details on that Qantas Sydney to Singapore flight, but Qantas VH-ZNH had an incident last year flying from Sydney to Perth with a stuck gear and they turned around back to Sydney.
      It is obvious that with the gear sticking out, any aircraft meant to retract the gear will consume significantly more fuel. It also seems obvious that any airport you landed the aircraft in prior to taking off again is required to have safety and rescue equipment ready so that's not an issue either in a stuck gear situation.
      The reason there was no pan pan pan call was because of the captain making bad decisions so that in fact was exactly why they should've turned back. He was legally required to declare the fuel issue and later even declare a mayday.
      These are all reasons as to exactly why they should have turned back to their departure airport or at least a nearby airport. This captain was so determined to save the company some money as the airline had their technical staff at other airports than any he could divert to that he risked the entire aircraft and all the lives of those onboard... Ended up writing the aircraft off so very obviously very poor decision making from a captain...
      Do you have a flight number or other information to find that Qantas flight from Sydney to Singapore?

    • @someguy4915
      @someguy4915 3 роки тому +60

      @@justinepaula-robilliard You are assuming this video is the first and only information I read/watched about this incident...
      Reasoning that an accident has multiple facets doesn't excuse the fact that the captain performed very poor here, as is also stated by the incident report.
      The captain made a decision and from then on refused to evaluate his own decision, something that is the main task a captain has.
      Even if the aircraft would've made it to the landing safely and with the legal minimum amount of fuel left over the performance of the captain was poor.
      CRM training as a result of this and similar incidents has luckily largely resolved this, though we still have occasional incidents.
      Here it is just shocking that it wasn't a captain arrogantly screaming that he/she was the big boss and the FO should stay quiet but it was a captain who refused clear signs that his decision was bad.
      You make a decision, days later you realize it was the wrong one. This can happen to anyone and is mostly fine, depending on how smart the decision was back then.
      Deciding that the gear out wouldn't consume significantly more fuel was already a bad decision but this is not the main concern.
      Deciding to not evaluate his own decision because the conclusion might be unfavorable is very bad.
      Deciding to not declare the fuel situation, as he was legally required to do, is becoming malicious, purposely hiding evidence...
      Deciding to at this point still not fly to a nearby military base by calling a mayday was terrible decision-making.
      Deciding after crashing to lie about 'sudden fuel loss before landing' to try and subvert the incident investigation and reduce bad press by playing the hero was malicious.
      This captain had bad luck: some incorrect bolt preventing his gear from retracting. He then chose to lie about, deceive and ignore the situation until he crashed.
      Nothing speaks positively for the captain in this incident, that doesn't mean the bolt started the entire incident, just that the captain caused it to become so severe.

    • @someguy4915
      @someguy4915 3 роки тому +4

      @@justinepaula-robilliard Tenerife also was a collection of exceptions (terrorist attack, bomb threat at destination airport, diversion to Tenerife airport, small sized airport so taxiing over the runway, severe fog on runway, van Zanten (captain KLM 747) cutting in line, PA and ATC stepping on each other on the radio, ATC using non-standard and ambiguous calls on the radio which eventually lead to van Zanten ignoring his FO and ramming his aircraft into another... A tragic example of the same issue here: a captain deciding that his perfect scenario MUST be true and anything proving otherwise must be fake...
      It is not best practice to get as close to the destination as possible, it is best practice to be as safe as reasonably possible, where you got the idea that destination and convenience go over safety I don't know.
      Had the captain followed the procedure for gear out flight he would've known. Had he followed protocol instead of choosing to ignore the protocol and just use a computer which wasn't designed for it he would've realized his full situation and landed asap.
      The sole reason we have pilots flying an aircraft is because things sometimes change. We can make aircraft that would taxi, take-off, cruise, land and taxi all autonomously, but we'd still want two people sitting in the front in case anything unexpected happens. A captain is deemed a captain instead of an FO due to experience and leadership. This captain locked up in a wrong decision made based upon incorrect (though individually perhaps logical) assumptions.
      No matter how you twist it, this captain should not have been a captain on such a flight with the way he ignored all signs that he had a serious issue.
      It is true that some flights do fly with down gear, but never to their destination airport unless they have massive fuel reserves, which this HL flight didn't have.
      In any case I'm sure landing at an alternate airport and dealing with passengers having to stay at a hotel and possible visa issues is a lot of work but you know what is more work? Crashing an aircraft, or at least the aftermath... ;)
      No I do not solely blame the captain here, I am just amazed by his performance during this incident.

    • @huskkyy
      @huskkyy 2 роки тому +33

      @@justinepaula-robilliard The manual does actually state that the FMS fuel prediction should not be used in non-normal flight conditions. aka gear down. This was in the manual at the time which is available but I can't post the link here becasue itll flag this comment as spam. While its good that they landed safely, if this was over an ocean for example this couldve turned the poor decisions by the PIC into fatal consequences.

    • @HDJess
      @HDJess 2 роки тому +22

      True, that's what most people with normal logical thinking would do. I would instantly turn around and land if my gear wouldn't retract, even if only to save myself the trouble of dealing with checklists, fuel calculations, diverting, etc, etc. It would also not put me in the position to land at an airport not covered by my maintenance company, in which case I'd be creating huge extra costs to my airline.

  • @big_man_ank1768
    @big_man_ank1768 3 роки тому +22

    as always awesome quality

  • @ozangokceo
    @ozangokceo 3 роки тому +30

    I am really looking forward to an Aircrash Investigation episode dedicated to this! It's a really interesting case.
    Edit: How did you nail that final resting position? It's pretty impressive.

  • @Ztbmrc1
    @Ztbmrc1 3 роки тому +56

    I think the most logical thing to do was to return to Crete (Hiraklion?) when they encountered the problem with the gear after take off. We do not know for sure but it seems as if they were urged by the airlines ops to proceed to an airport with the airlines maintenance facility. But even then, there were so many chances to land safely and avoid this crash...

    • @Amanda-C.
      @Amanda-C. 2 роки тому +6

      Turning around would have prevented the issue, but I don't think it would've been appriopriate. They had a reasonable and well-founded belief that they could land safely, if perhaps a little short of their destination. It wasn't even incorrect in the broad strokes. The issue was that they failed to take appropriate action when it became undeniable that they were in an emergency, partly because they didn't have sufficient training and available information to identify the emergency earlier. I understand how the captain felt (I've fallen victim to plan continuation bias and expected utility bias myself, not to mention the likely financial pressure), but we can't excuse his poor decision making near the end of the flight. But when it was just getting started? Not every unusual situation is an emergency, and, even if it were, not every emergency requires you to turn around.

    • @gcorriveau6864
      @gcorriveau6864 2 роки тому +8

      Deciding to divert to a base where maintenance is available and passengers' ongoing flights can be arranged is a very reasonable choice. It may also avoid having to make an 'over-weight' landing (airliners are certified to take off at heavier weights than they are certified to land at). In this case, however, the captain seemed to be very under-trained and unaware of the drag vs. fuel consumption realities!

    • @Ztbmrc1
      @Ztbmrc1 2 роки тому +3

      @@gcorriveau6864 But safety should always be first, and than company and or passenger conveniences. And in case of overweight you can always either release fuel, or fly some time in a holding pattern to loose fuel to get under the max landing weight.

    • @crazymonkeyVII
      @crazymonkeyVII 2 роки тому +5

      @@Ztbmrc1 That's true, but it makes no sense to do that. It's perfectly alright to get the airplane closer towards the destination, as long as you make sure not to run out of fuel! It's a far better option than flying a perfectly controllable airplane in a holding pattern for hours or dumping the fuel into the environment for no reason. A stuck landing gear is simply not that much of a deal!

    • @sleazymeezy
      @sleazymeezy 2 роки тому +2

      @@gcorriveau6864 bro, he had 24000 hours flight time iirc

  • @SlavaUkraini85
    @SlavaUkraini85 3 роки тому +9

    The quality of your videos is phenomenal!

  • @davidtrice8307
    @davidtrice8307 2 роки тому +1

    i found your channel few days ago. watching these videos makes u realise how much it takes to fly a plain and problem solve when things go wrong brilliant channel

  • @samsungtab1064
    @samsungtab1064 3 роки тому +8

    found your channel at 7k subscribers and been subscribed since! Your vids never cease to amaze me, keep it up☺

  • @WestCoastTruckingCEO
    @WestCoastTruckingCEO 2 роки тому +1

    Your graphics and simulation are by far the best I've seen on any aviation channel

  • @dusanarsovski7059
    @dusanarsovski7059 Рік тому

    This channel has the most interesting and engaging content. The ballance between simplicity and attention to details is what set you apart from others. Pure quality. Keep up the good work.

  • @hanswurst4463
    @hanswurst4463 3 роки тому +51

    I find this crash very interesting because my Teacher and his family was part of the passengers and he told us so many things about it

  • @Taketimeout3
    @Taketimeout3 2 роки тому +7

    I have difficulty believing it is permissible to fly an airliner with passengers on board with the gear down. The strain and stress on the gear and much higher fuel burn makes it imperative to land immediately.
    I guess I am always learning
    Good upload.

  • @bobamoto
    @bobamoto 3 роки тому +7

    Very nice underrated channel, keep on.

  • @DBR00
    @DBR00 2 роки тому +3

    Great video, Mr. Green Dot! Hope you have a nice day! I enjoyed watching.

  • @rfvtgbzhn
    @rfvtgbzhn 2 роки тому +15

    7:51 I think the commercial pressure is a point that should be included in all videos where time pressure on pilots is mentioned (which are a lot from the ones I have already seen). In capitalism corporations always put profits over safety. They actually only increase safety if that is required by law or reduces their costs (for liabilities and/or insurance) enough.

    • @citizensnips3850
      @citizensnips3850 Рік тому +2

      Don't say "capitalism" as if places like China and Soviet Russia haven't had dozens and dozens of horrendous accidents

    • @rfvtgbzhn
      @rfvtgbzhn Рік тому +1

      @@citizensnips3850 China is capitalist since about 30 years and you can't compare aviation of 1917-1991 with today. There where generally more accidents back then.

    • @rfvtgbzhn
      @rfvtgbzhn Рік тому

      @@citizensnips3850 also from what I know there was an increase of aviation accidents in Russia in the 90s, after the transistion to capitalism.

    • @citizensnips3850
      @citizensnips3850 Рік тому

      @rfvtgbzhn Lmao China the country that recently (as in 2015 recently) had laws on how many children you can have and a nation with a social credit score where being disliked by the government costs you your rights is DEFINITELY a capitalist Nation. Totally no cap there at all lmao

    • @citizensnips3850
      @citizensnips3850 Рік тому +2

      @rfvtgbzhn There was countles Soviet Union crashes that were never documented and were swept under the rug. Considering their checkered past with covering things and how many soviet plane crashes that they tried to cover up but couldn't.

  • @brianjones3191
    @brianjones3191 Рік тому +7

    I’ve watched several of these, and am now terrified I will be on one of the flights where things go wrong.

  • @adithyakaravadi8170
    @adithyakaravadi8170 2 роки тому +2

    This is my fav flight channel now, no BS.

  • @Z3NYBOY
    @Z3NYBOY Рік тому +2

    You were very critical in this video - and I am fully with you on that. He should have turned around or landed straight away. Thanks for another fantastic video.

  • @afreightdogslife
    @afreightdogslife 2 роки тому +20

    In my opinion this captain lacked CRM knowledge, he overruled or simply ignored/dismissed his first officer's inputs and suggestions. Moreover, as far as I know, no one in their right mind would decide to fly to the destination airport, with the landing gear down due to a landing gear malfunction. The normal action of any profesional crew, is to troubleshoot the malfunction with the use of the QRH (Quick Reference Handbook), and then decide if they are above the maximum landing weight or below the maximum landing weight (depending on aircraft type), in order for them to return to do a landing at the departure airport. If they are to heavy for landing, then they must tell the air traffic controller about their situation and ask permission to go over some specific airspace, in order for them to dump fuel thus bringing the current aircraft weight down to the maximum landing weight, and then land the aircraft safely.
    This captain ended up getting a severe case of what is commonly referred to in aviation as "Getthereitis Syndrome," and the outcome, sadly was predictable.

  • @johncantwell8216
    @johncantwell8216 Рік тому +2

    Two-crew airliners had been in use for some time, including the Douglas DC-9 (1965), and the Boeing 737-100 (1967), so the Airbus A310 was not one of the first.

  • @CocoaBeachLiving
    @CocoaBeachLiving 3 роки тому +23

    This is why I never completed my efforts to being a commercial pilot. I could very well have been like this Captain.. Better to know your limits.. Lol

    • @asktari610
      @asktari610 2 роки тому +5

      Lol same.I could never be a pilot

    • @jack002tuber
      @jack002tuber 2 роки тому +4

      Train for every possible situation and then just calmly fly. 😄 Like the one who put it down in the Hudson, Sully. (I'm not a pilot, so there's that 🤣🤣)

    • @indahooddererste
      @indahooddererste 2 роки тому +2

      @@jack002tuber and even him lost topics on the checklist. we all just are humans.

  • @fluffy-fluffy5996
    @fluffy-fluffy5996 3 роки тому +4

    Another one I never heard of. Thank you!

  • @AaronHarberg
    @AaronHarberg 3 роки тому +9

    Very interesting, the A310 was a nice looking plane. The Captain had a case of get there itis.

    • @tommcglone2867
      @tommcglone2867 7 місяців тому

      Yes. A very serious chronic case of Get-There-Itis.

  • @alphalunamare
    @alphalunamare 3 роки тому +51

    It makes you wonder if young pilots should not be teamed with old pilots ... that way at least you get a balance of respect in the communication twixt the pair.

    • @fluffy-fluffy5996
      @fluffy-fluffy5996 3 роки тому +3

      Should be based on flying hours/experience. Never team up two newbies, that is at least a recommended outcome from a crash but if it is actually being executed? Dunno. 🤷‍♀️

    • @cynthiadavid5282
      @cynthiadavid5282 2 роки тому +2

      He made poor choices on this plane he shoud have turned back sad the tragic happend

    • @gaiaiulia
      @gaiaiulia Рік тому

      @@cynthiadavid5282 he couldn't turn back to Heraklion. The fuel load was too heavy for landing. He should have landed at an airport about halfway

    • @pauljordan4452
      @pauljordan4452 Рік тому +2

      Thus, pilots are like oxen.

    • @SianaGearz
      @SianaGearz 17 днів тому

      Then you have two types of crews, the senile crew and the rookie crew, and i don't know which one is scarier! I don't like this suggestion. Pairing an experienced pilot with a young pilot is the one good way to maintain a steady supply of experienced pilots in the future and also keeps more perspectives in the cabin of different mindset not quite sharing the wavelength which makes it less likely that things get fatally overlooked. Instead, special attention should be paid that experienced pilots respect their fresh colleagues more.

  • @mickeygarg
    @mickeygarg 2 роки тому

    Kudos also to the team who perform the RCA of the failure. So detailed and minutely captured (big thumbs up)

  • @rilmar2137
    @rilmar2137 3 роки тому +32

    The pilot's top priority should always be the safety. Also, I thought that since Tenerife the PICs have been required to hear out their crewmates' suggestions?

    • @Bamboule05
      @Bamboule05 Рік тому +3

      Oh they can hear them out, but it's still de decision of the captain what to do

  • @Harald-MacGerhard
    @Harald-MacGerhard Рік тому

    Again, fantastic storytelling, love it 😊
    Keep up the good work 😎

  • @LateNightCigars
    @LateNightCigars Рік тому +4

    This feels like an episode of The Simpsons where Homer was the pilot.

  • @Gregorius421
    @Gregorius421 3 роки тому +9

    Talk about get-there-itis...
    12:00 power slide.
    "The aircraft has just about made it to Vienna"

  • @big_man_ank1768
    @big_man_ank1768 3 роки тому +42

    in an attempt to prevent bad media he literally destroyed a plane and tried to make an excuse ppl do alot of stupid shit under stress

    • @jack002tuber
      @jack002tuber 2 роки тому +7

      The root cause was not knowing how far he could go on his fuel. It was so preventable. Ego did seem to play a factor.

    • @lisamarieashby2523
      @lisamarieashby2523 2 роки тому

      People do a lot of s**t when they are so arrogant that they do not know what their priorities SHOULD BE!

  • @matthewhoverd471
    @matthewhoverd471 Рік тому +3

    It must just be me, but this airlines name sounds a lot like 'Happy Glide'! Quite ironic!

  • @bigal3940
    @bigal3940 Рік тому

    Great mini investigation. Thanks for sharing @GreenDotAviation

  • @ahsanrahib9958
    @ahsanrahib9958 Рік тому +5

    Lol he tried so hard to not bring any bad press ended up destroying a plane

  • @GeoStreber
    @GeoStreber 2 роки тому +1

    I remember this accident. Only a few months earlier, I had been on a Hapag-Lloyd flight from Nuremberg to Faro for vacation.

  • @charleskennedy1712
    @charleskennedy1712 2 роки тому +5

    Low time FO seemed much more switched on than Hapag-Lloyd’s highest time captain

  • @patricktuggles4815
    @patricktuggles4815 2 роки тому +4

    This captain was a real company man lol

  • @Soulkatyoga8
    @Soulkatyoga8 Рік тому

    I’m sure most of you did this same thing: as soon as I knew the landing gear was down, my first thought was welp the LG is down so drag will cause the plane to use fuel faster as the plane had drag. Very interesting segment. 👍🏻😺

  • @pascalcoole2725
    @pascalcoole2725 2 роки тому

    Verry good and unbiased evaliation !

  • @thelazyalgorithm8164
    @thelazyalgorithm8164 Рік тому +2

    There is just enough room for a Captain, 1st officer and 2nd officer within a cockpit. There is no room however for egos or errors.

  • @selftrue670
    @selftrue670 2 роки тому +5

    The cause of this crash is pilot error, not the gear down, not anything else. Nothing that failed on that aircraft was a risk to flight. When the un-retractible gear issue first emerged, landing soon became priority one. Not corporate convenience, not get-there-itis,

  • @abigaileggleston9108
    @abigaileggleston9108 8 місяців тому +1

    "Luckily, there was no fuel left to start a fire" 😮

  • @jekanyika
    @jekanyika 2 роки тому +21

    I find it strange that they are allowed to continue the flight as normal with the gear extended.

    • @anadubar4819
      @anadubar4819 2 роки тому +8

      It happens regularly and planes just continue their flight. It is much worse when the landing gear cannot be extended - that makes for a crash landing. This is what my friend, who works at the airport, told me.

    • @gnarthdarkanen7464
      @gnarthdarkanen7464 2 роки тому +6

      I don't know about strange... The gear DOES reduce the speed they can go, and by rote, also the altitude they can fly to some degree. It's definitely NOT 'just like normal" to fly like that... BUT frequently on take-off, there's so much fuel on board that the plane is legitimately too heavy to land safely... SO turning right around to land may not have been an option... If there's no emergency (and gear-stuck down is NOT an emergency) then there's no good to come from creating an emergency by being too anxious to get back to the ground too early. The options then are to take a holding pattern long enough to dump fuel sufficient for a safe landing and go back... OR divert to some mid-way point where the fuel can be burned in progress for airline and passengers and then face the details of trying to fix the issue or getting refueled with intent to get to a place where it CAN be fixed...
      The truly weird part is how reluctant the Captain was to try ANY alternative at all... AND even once he chose an alternative (Vienna) he set himself up for failure by continuing the narrow minded demands of his craft... instead of simply diverting to THE nearest suitable airport as soon as he figured out they couldn't reach Munich. He gambled on reaching Vienna (as far as he could possibly fly) with the lives of his passengers and crew. ;o)

  • @PassiveSmoking
    @PassiveSmoking 11 місяців тому +1

    The captain exhibited terrible CRM here, he ignored his first officer on multiple occasions.

  • @donaldwilson5693
    @donaldwilson5693 2 роки тому +1

    It said in the beginning that the FMS indicated there would not be enough fuel to reach the destination, so I don't think it was a bad assumption by the captain that it was based on gear down. The suggestion to have stayed a cruise altitude as long as possible and glided down was a good one. They would have made it to the airport.

  • @Dilley_G45
    @Dilley_G45 6 місяців тому +1

    A couple things. A 310 was not one of the first 2-man cockpits. B 737, DC-9 and others were there. A310 wasn't a marvel just an average plane. It wasn't replaced by the A330. Rather by modern A320 versions etc. A330 is bigger.

  • @renoholland7090
    @renoholland7090 2 роки тому

    Great video. Thank you.

  • @SuperpowerBroadcasting
    @SuperpowerBroadcasting Рік тому

    10:48 I'm gonna be real, I was expecting an advertisement for a car insurance company after being around UA-cam this long. I'm glad this channel isn't about that.

  • @der.Schtefan
    @der.Schtefan 4 місяці тому

    Thank you for pronouncing Graz correctly

  • @BrettonFerguson
    @BrettonFerguson Рік тому +3

    640 meters. If they had a few more seconds of fuel we would likely have never heard of this incident.

  • @sharkyboi3742
    @sharkyboi3742 Рік тому +1

    I think the captain has to be demoted, the FO kept pushing the captain to save the plane yet the captain rejected them all. He still thinks he is the hero, thats a hidden time bomb for any planes.

  • @jeremydenn6988
    @jeremydenn6988 Рік тому +1

    I hope that captain is not flying anymore just wow how did he even get to be a captain.

  • @chrisg9627
    @chrisg9627 2 роки тому +1

    Gear locked down, you go to the graphs ... not the FMS. easy to say in hindsight, but thats the way on my aircraft, and it is extremely limiting, this is a ferry flight only procedure. with no pax.
    A landing back at the airport of origin is absolutely required in my FCOM.

  • @patmx5
    @patmx5 Рік тому +1

    How does a 20k+ hour pilot not realize that having the wheels hanging out in the breeze is going to hugely increase drag and as a result, his fuel consumption? And then once he'd decided to proceed with the flight, to not be EXTRA vigilant with the fuel consumption and have alarm bells going off in his head when the amount was dropping much faster than anticipated. Yeah, we've used more than 60% less than halfway through the flight. It was the climb - yeah, that's it - the climb! The only time you should really trust the fuel gauge is if it says you have less than you think you should. Mind blowing, and miraculous that no one was seriously injured or killed.

  • @thatguy_nick2937
    @thatguy_nick2937 8 місяців тому +1

    Another happy landing!

  • @dontatmebaron
    @dontatmebaron Рік тому +1

    Just a few moths ago in 2023 A320 crew in Russia made seemingly the exact same mistake during their diversion to the alternate and made a forced landing in a random field halfway. This was Ural Airlines Flight 1383

  • @james6164
    @james6164 3 роки тому

    Excellent. Great lessons to learn from.

  • @dh510
    @dh510 2 роки тому +4

    Tbh, the computer not using the current rate of fuel consumption for its calculations in any way seems like a tremendous oversight to me, at least from the modern day perspective...
    Nowadays, I would assume that any FMC would automatically register that the gear is down and have the corresponding look-up-charts available to recalculate everything on the fly..

  • @MrEsMysteriesMagicks
    @MrEsMysteriesMagicks 3 роки тому +4

    Does anyone know what discipline the PIC may have received? The FO's behavior may have been "exemplary," but he did omit a critical checklist or at least remember to turn on the emergency flaps and slats switch.

    • @se-kmg355
      @se-kmg355 2 роки тому +4

      From Wiki: Hapag-Lloyd reported that the Captain Wolfgang Arminger voluntarily left the airline six months after the incident. In 2004, a Hannover district court convicted Captain Arminger of "dangerous interference in the air traffic," saying he was "endangering others' lives" mainly by failing to divert to Zagreb, and gave him a six-month suspended prison sentence. The conviction was criticized by German court reporter Gisela Friedrichsen who thought the two court sessions of the main trial were not enough to present and evaluate all evidence.

    • @anadubar4819
      @anadubar4819 2 роки тому

      He lost his pilot's licence and got six months prison (on parole).

  • @dogevid
    @dogevid 2 роки тому +2

    I’m just wondering how the plane didn’t crash in the huge rafinnery or one of the towns in front of the runway. It lies almost on the approach and you always feel a slight sense of threat going through minimums, because you know if you make an error you will cause the worst post-crash fire in the history of aviation.

  • @usmale4915
    @usmale4915 3 роки тому

    Very good! Thank you for the upload!

    • @GreenDotAviation
      @GreenDotAviation  3 роки тому +1

      Glad you enjoyed it!

    • @usmale4915
      @usmale4915 3 роки тому

      @@GreenDotAviation Thanks, I really did enjoy it! Looking forward to more videos from you!

  • @anthonydsouza7174
    @anthonydsouza7174 Рік тому

    REALLY NICE LESSONS ❤

  • @derkevevin
    @derkevevin Рік тому

    The sound volume was very low on this video, make sure you make them loud enough. Other than that, great video, as always 👌

  • @alexhoe02
    @alexhoe02 3 роки тому +3

    Do you have any plans to work on Pulkovo 612? If so I would love to give you all the details I have about the accident

    • @GreenDotAviation
      @GreenDotAviation  3 роки тому +2

      Yes I'll be covering this at some point. Feel free to email me any details you have at greendot330@gmail.com :)

    • @alexhoe02
      @alexhoe02 3 роки тому +1

      @@GreenDotAviation ❤️❤️❤️

  • @stevencooke6451
    @stevencooke6451 2 роки тому +8

    Exemplary production again. These videos explain so much without overloading the brain.

  • @comvnche
    @comvnche 2 роки тому +1

    The seniority gradient in the cockpit was to steep also.

  • @nativeafroeurasian
    @nativeafroeurasian 2 роки тому +1

    4:58 aren't you supposed to monitor your fuel burn anyway? So if they have xkg fuel now and x-ykg in ten minutes, they know they burn (x-y)×6kg an hour and combined with the speed they know their range, don't they?

    • @kevinb6745
      @kevinb6745 Рік тому +1

      Common sense ain’t common

  • @ilovejesus1112
    @ilovejesus1112 6 місяців тому

    10:51 Honestly, this is excellent life advice

  • @superconnie5003
    @superconnie5003 3 роки тому +2

    There was an Indo 737 that ditched in a river before this and Scully.

  • @sheenodj
    @sheenodj 2 роки тому

    Another great video!

  • @kdfulton3152
    @kdfulton3152 3 роки тому +2

    Really interesting video but I thought Airbuses had Joy Stick controls? Or was that the later models?

    • @GreenDotAviation
      @GreenDotAviation  3 роки тому +4

      Yes, the newer models have sidesticks. The A300 and A310 were the only ones to have the standard control column.

    • @kdfulton3152
      @kdfulton3152 3 роки тому +1

      @@GreenDotAviation Cool! Thank you for the fast response.
      Btw, I’m a Subscriber too! ☮️💟

  • @SuperLordHawHaw
    @SuperLordHawHaw Рік тому

    10:44 This reasoning is why a lot of people don't go to the dentist or the doctor. They don't want to hear bad news but they know they need treatment so they ignore it and it gets so bad it is forced onto them eventually.
    15:07 The pilot would've been reasonable in his assessment if he hadn't been starting from an incorrect assessment of their rate of fuel loss. I would've at least done a calculation based on the manual regardless of my feelings about it just as a comparison. A big difference between them would've at least alerted me to analyze it further or give greater consideration to an alternate destination.
    15:45 This is also called "summit fever". In this case the pressure is internal, the desire to reach the summit is compared to all of the investments in time, money, and effort.