I like Eric, he knows his coatings and he ain't shy about telling ya when ya made a boo boo that's gonna be costly to repair. Very insightful with his knowledge and his chosen carrier, wish I'd thought better of my life before I started buying and driving truck for 40 years, I might of even had a new pickup, or a dog that loved me !!
Huh. So at one point in my career i was a supervisor over a facility that built the tanks he's talking about and i have seen that coating first hand. I had literally zero training on it and no one bothered to tell me what to look for on the tanks when we finished in the weld shop. that answered a TON of questions I had. Thanks!
As a coating and corrosion inspector this is great stuff! Slapping on gobs coatings on does not prevent corrosion, there’s a reason you must follow procedures! I have seen 2 yr old coatings looking like a old dodge van, production over prep! Consider the cost of repairs, lost production when completing your project!
As a non-boat person who has never done this, it sure sounds depressing/frustrating when you see all the causes of the coating failure. Almost seems impossible to get a perfect job done even if great care is used. Is there any future advancements in metallurgy that might come up with an alloy or other material as strong as steel which would be affordable and also totally resist rust or oxidation at the surface? Or is this just a never-ending battle for boat owners?
There are all kinds of exotic metals. As for anything, Like they say, "you don't get it for free". Good, fast, cheap. Pick any two, and live with opposite of the remainder. Good and fast isn't going to be cheap. Cheap and fast isn't going to be good. Good and cheap?,..... well it doesn't really exist.....
@ben nichols Gold plating would erode away quite quickly under many circumstances, like moving through silt laden water. Duplex steel and/or titanium have both been done before, and will basically shrug off any conditions you will throw at them. Duplex isnt really that expensive anymore; but forming and welding it without ruining its advantages is still not quite a routine process. If I had the money to piss away on the project, id love to experiment with building a hull using adhesive laminated duplex sheets.
Im a sand blaster/spray painter in Australia, and these kind of defects are our bread and butter. Most corrosion is cuased by inproper prep. When i first started out i was working on Australias submarines, the amount of these EXACT defects were astrinomical. On one boat there was over 3000 defects just on the outside of the hull.
I made a executive decision once to what kind of tank we needed for our liquid starch which had caustic soda in the mixture. I went with stainless steel and the tank is over 30 years old now and still holding strong. Expensive as hell at the time....but. It was a 1000 gallon tank.
Lute, As we're want to say in the business, when you can, "alloy up". There are many times when the extra money will be justified by the length of service. I inspected a 8500 gallon stainless tank this past week, it still looks like new. In 10 or more years it likely will still look like new in the inside.
Jeez Eric, must have broken all the rules on the salvage job in the Great salt lakes, hats off to you - I did the same but on a smaller scale - dived on a sunken Dutch Oldtimer motor fishing boat to reclaim all my personal gear and tools - sol dive no back up on a wreck in the engine room and other small compartments, got all my stuff and swore I'd never dive wrecks solo again. Well done and thank you very much for your experiences. K
Eric will tell you it's very rare that a coating actually fails by not performing as intended. It's almost always prep, application, or damage that is the cause.
Eric, prove me wrong. Respectfully. In my 15 years in the coatings industry I can count on one hand the number of product failures I've seen where the product didn't perform as prescribed. Overwhelming majority was poor prep or application wasn't correct for a multitude of reasons.
Nova, I agree the overwhelming majority are as you describe. Perform as intended, I suppose you and I have had different experiences. I see an extremely diversified of industries, across the a broad spectrum of areas of the country from a wide range of manufacturers and different applicators. We agree that the product is rarely at fault. Even in times I have seen the product take the blame (read warranty) the disconnect sometimes is the improper selection if a product. But yes I have seen multiple "bad" examples. If it was a bad lot from a manufacturer or too much thinning or retarder, sometimes it's just splitting hairs at that point attempting to lay blame. A difference without distinction. Bottom line, sometimes it's not important as to the why.
Eric, a fair view from a third party. I am biased from the supplier side of the sale, meaning, a failure of any type is a money grab I'm expected to hand out. Even in the circumstances the coating isn't at fault I end up paying to "make it right". A slippery slope to salvage namesake, keep the end user happy, and educate a customer/applicator. Moral of the story.... get your job and stay neutral 😎
Nova, I think I mentioned just such a situation in one of my videos. A bunch of the jobs I have seen "warranted" could likely be blamed on others, but to save the relationship....... and then people wonder what drives these products to cost so much...... oh the situation of the industry. I'm sure if we compared rolodex cards and stories we may have common acquaintance.
Wow, I'm the first to like and the first to comment. Great video Doug. Eric is a fascinating guy. I do lots of corrosion repair. Cutting out the slug, cutting an insert to weld back into the hole, is safer than welding a patch atop of the corroded spot. The reason being to make an external patch work, you have to feather the weld, and then grind the welds so perfectly so there are no sharp edges left, that most welders can't do that perfect of a grind. So then your stripe paint probably has a thin layer in places. But if an insert was welded back into the parent, then all you have is a flat flush grind and most welders can do it. His stories were fascinating.
Jason, over the course of my career I have inspected tanks that had fiberglass installed over thin and or holed through floors. I have seen them after many years of service and often they were in rough shape. In the days before the great "super epoxies" that are widely available and accessible, now I wouldn't recommend otherwise. At the cost of taking a tank out of service and cleaning up to work. In my mind almost everytime a tank will have a longer life by using a good or great epoxy coating (appropriate for the intended service)
Nothing to do with coatings. But I notice you have 1 main engine the cummins 8.3lt. What if something happens and you're caught up in some rough stuff. Ever consider a smaller lugger engine to the side with smaller shaft prop for emergencies. Kind of like some smaller mini ship nordhavens have as redundancy. Getting caught in rough with no power can be a sketchy situation. Really cool little ship in every other regard. I liked the hull folding first time I seen one done like that.
@@fowletm1992 it's more of an oh shit engine. Doesn't run all time has one of those folding props like main one but much smaller. Naturally it's under powered but give it hell in emergency and then limp to calmer area or marina to make repairs on main engine. Doesn't really add that much more complexity. Little maintenance because of extra cutlass bearing and filters that is based on run time also which long as main engine works should be close to 0. Here is an example granted this is a motor yacht/trawler ua-cam.com/video/6R48uD_Brm0/v-deo.html Sails doesn't always work out if caught in certain areas with certain wind conditions. Seen couple incidents of sailing yachts get into rocks if had secondary motor would have never happened. They got out but not without damage and pulling a boat out that size is not so cheap probably cheaper further south of north america but still an extra cost.
@@centosx Where do you stop though Very rare for the engine to give up its usually a supporting system so you need dupliate cooling systems duplicate fuel system dupliate electrical systems amd so on As i said most boat and ships are one engine and very few have sails Sometimes they fail but for every failure you have literally hundreds of thosands getting around fine Engines and supporting systens dont just fail you have monertoring systems and perform checks to keep tabs on whata going on Hald the time accidents happen the ocupants are well aware of thw fault and are trying to limp it somewhere to avoid getting a tow At some point you just have to say do we really want to lug an extra tonne of crap around the world burning more fuel and carrying less cargo fpr the sack of a 1 in a million event Then when that event comes round will there be enough time to get the spare engine running and under power Will that little engine have enough power to push us away from rocks with an incomeing tide and 40 knot winds Will.that engine even start after sitting unused for 10 yrs waiting for that event Better to rely on your monitoring systems and better junmdgment to call for assistance before trying to enter a dangerous area looking for repairs knowing your engine hasn't been making good oil presure for a while
@@fowletm1992 true but smaller. Usually it is something outside that fails pumps fuel or cooling, or some electrical issues to those. Middle ocean guess not stranded like the motor yacht would be. Guess it comes down to preference and funds. Another option electric they are becoming affordable. No exhaust, cooling, pumps basically no maintenance needed. Can't run full speed for long but have a lot of torque no transmission needed. During a good sail you can re-gen also. Simplest install just have shock absorption in shaft other than that direct connection. Then it's just a motor speed controller and electronic throttle (pot meter basically) Always thought it would be neat to build something like icebreakers have for propulsion only lot small desiel/electric only now you can add lithium iron in the mix. The li-ion like 18650 technology I feel is a little sketchy on a boat. If it runs away even with a suppressant system those batteries produce their own oxygen.
Sweetheart, I know they told you that you were the center of the universe but mommy and daddy lied to you. I will do what I like and I don't give a fuck what you think about it.
SV Seeker Doug, I watch your channel because I genuinely think what you are doing is amazing. I have watched from day one and look forward to every video release. I was merely giving an opinion! Criticism can be used in a positive way. It doesn’t have to be an act of war. Keep up the good work, you are a positive role model.
The coating inspectors - season two premiering on Netflix this summer!
Still a better lovestory than twilight...
:D
Eric you're an absolute gentleman. I'm learning a lot about how to communicate..... as well as coatings. Thanks so much SV Seeker.
I like Eric, he knows his coatings and he ain't shy about telling ya when ya made a boo boo that's gonna be costly to repair. Very insightful with his knowledge and his chosen carrier, wish I'd thought better of my life before I started buying and driving truck for 40 years, I might of even had a new pickup, or a dog that loved me !!
Bart you made it this far... Carry-on
Huh. So at one point in my career i was a supervisor over a facility that built the tanks he's talking about and i have seen that coating first hand. I had literally zero training on it and no one bothered to tell me what to look for on the tanks when we finished in the weld shop. that answered a TON of questions I had. Thanks!
As a coating and corrosion inspector this is great stuff! Slapping on gobs coatings on does not prevent corrosion, there’s a reason you must follow procedures! I have seen 2 yr old coatings looking like a old dodge van, production over prep! Consider the cost of repairs, lost production when completing your project!
Eric is truly awesome, hope he comes back, often :)
Can we get this guy to create a lecture series on coatings and corrosion? Somehow he makes this boring subject interesting to listen to.
I think he should have his own channel. He knows about a lot more than just coatings.
Apart from the fact that he knows his subject sooo well, its interesting because he's passionate about what he does.
I like when he hesitates before he speaks, then a whole lot of info comes out... like a slow computer ~
Ok, I made a video re: corrosion examples of piping.
ua-cam.com/video/8wbbM3YwEZQ/v-deo.html
Wait, I missed it, what and how is a holiday test?
As a non-boat person who has never done this, it sure sounds depressing/frustrating when you see all the causes of the coating failure. Almost seems impossible to get a perfect job done even if great care is used. Is there any future advancements in metallurgy that might come up with an alloy or other material as strong as steel which would be affordable and also totally resist rust or oxidation at the surface? Or is this just a never-ending battle for boat owners?
There are all kinds of exotic metals. As for anything, Like they say,
"you don't get it for free".
Good, fast, cheap. Pick any two, and live with opposite of the remainder. Good and fast isn't going to be cheap. Cheap and fast isn't going to be good. Good and cheap?,..... well it doesn't really exist.....
@ben nichols Gold plating would erode away quite quickly under many circumstances, like moving through silt laden water.
Duplex steel and/or titanium have both been done before, and will basically shrug off any conditions you will throw at them. Duplex isnt really that expensive anymore; but forming and welding it without ruining its advantages is still not quite a routine process.
If I had the money to piss away on the project, id love to experiment with building a hull using adhesive laminated duplex sheets.
Amazing guy with great information. Thank you for sharing that interview Doug. Take care and have a great week ahead.
Im a sand blaster/spray painter in Australia, and these kind of defects are our bread and butter. Most corrosion is cuased by inproper prep. When i first started out i was working on Australias submarines, the amount of these EXACT defects were astrinomical. On one boat there was over 3000 defects just on the outside of the hull.
Great video Doug, Eric's knowledge of coatings and the story's he has..... Thank you Matt C.
Thank you Mr Montague.
I made a executive decision once to what kind of tank we needed for our liquid starch which had caustic soda in the mixture. I went with stainless steel and the tank is over 30 years old now and still holding strong. Expensive as hell at the time....but. It was a 1000 gallon tank.
Lute,
As we're want to say in the business, when you can, "alloy up". There are many times when the extra money will be justified by the length of service.
I inspected a 8500 gallon stainless tank this past week, it still looks like new. In 10 or more years it likely will still look like new in the inside.
Jeez Eric, must have broken all the rules on the salvage job in the Great salt lakes, hats off to you - I did the same but on a smaller scale - dived on a sunken Dutch Oldtimer motor fishing boat to reclaim all my personal gear and tools - sol dive no back up on a wreck in the engine room and other small compartments, got all my stuff and swore I'd never dive wrecks solo again. Well done and thank you very much for your experiences. K
I could watch this guy all day
120 gallon coating, applied by a 12 dollar an hour labor, is what he wanted to say
The coating master knows his shit
Eric is so interesting and entertaining. Thanks for sharing.
I learn so much today
I love this guy, so much knowledge that is willing to help/share
Fascinating insight. Many thanks for posting this conversation.
as a welder, im going to have nightmares tonight.
ALL I KNOW IS AHHHHHHH IM SCARED NOW!!! Interesting.
Eric will tell you it's very rare that a coating actually fails by not performing as intended. It's almost always prep, application, or damage that is the cause.
Not as rare as you might think.
Eric, prove me wrong. Respectfully. In my 15 years in the coatings industry I can count on one hand the number of product failures I've seen where the product didn't perform as prescribed. Overwhelming majority was poor prep or application wasn't correct for a multitude of reasons.
Nova, I agree the overwhelming majority are as you describe. Perform as intended, I suppose you and I have had different experiences. I see an extremely diversified of industries, across the a broad spectrum of areas of the country from a wide range of manufacturers and different applicators.
We agree that the product is rarely at fault. Even in times I have seen the product take the blame (read warranty) the disconnect sometimes is the improper selection if a product. But yes I have seen multiple "bad" examples. If it was a bad lot from a manufacturer or too much thinning or retarder, sometimes it's just splitting hairs at that point attempting to lay blame.
A difference without distinction. Bottom line, sometimes it's not important as to the why.
Eric, a fair view from a third party. I am biased from the supplier side of the sale, meaning, a failure of any type is a money grab I'm expected to hand out. Even in the circumstances the coating isn't at fault I end up paying to "make it right". A slippery slope to salvage namesake, keep the end user happy, and educate a customer/applicator.
Moral of the story.... get your job and stay neutral 😎
Nova, I think I mentioned just such a situation in one of my videos. A bunch of the jobs I have seen "warranted" could likely be blamed on others, but to save the relationship....... and then people wonder what drives these products to cost so much...... oh the situation of the industry. I'm sure if we compared rolodex cards and stories we may have common acquaintance.
I was dozing off watching yet another drag race I come on there and am riveted lol
lol I was watching plane races,, zzz
sounds like frak water tanks
John, that would be a great guess......
Just downstream from them.....
Wow, I'm the first to like and the first to comment. Great video Doug. Eric is a fascinating guy. I do lots of corrosion repair. Cutting out the slug, cutting an insert to weld back into the hole, is safer than welding a patch atop of the corroded spot. The reason being to make an external patch work, you have to feather the weld, and then grind the welds so perfectly so there are no sharp edges left, that most welders can't do that perfect of a grind. So then your stripe paint probably has a thin layer in places. But if an insert was welded back into the parent, then all you have is a flat flush grind and most welders can do it.
His stories were fascinating.
in the us navy we called them sounding tapes they were rounded on bottom so not to chip coatings
These were sounding tapes, and used improperly they can damage a coating, just as shown.
Interesting feller!!!👍 great video
Fascinating. what a very specialist job so well explained, 👍👍👍
We used to put fibreglass liners in steel tanks
Jason, over the course of my career I have inspected tanks that had fiberglass installed over thin and or holed through floors. I have seen them after many years of service and often they were in rough shape. In the days before the great "super epoxies" that are widely available and accessible, now I wouldn't recommend otherwise. At the cost of taking a tank out of service and cleaning up to work. In my mind almost everytime a tank will have a longer life by using a good or great epoxy coating (appropriate for the intended service)
Capital repair of existing assets are easier to fund than new capital expenditures in the corporate world
There's always enough time and money to do things twice. Just never enough time or money to do things right the first time.
Working in local government this is the sad truth.
@@thepolarblair1 Working anywhere. Never worked in government but I've seen it more times than I care to share.
Another great video, not sure why, but I never get sick of listening to something that applies to me in no way...
Plastic and wood looking lot less crap now? I think these are different conditions than you will encounter.
What’s the name of the UA-camr that he was talking about that does the insert patching?
Thanks for this video it cheered me up allot I was a bit sad cause me and my girlfriend broke up
just love this... sooo intresting...realy things to think about.. !!! good video!!!
Is Eric looking for help?
Depends on if you live to travel to strange and out of the way places. Dallas one week, Alaska the next, then off to south Carolina.
Nothing to do with coatings. But I notice you have 1 main engine the cummins 8.3lt. What if something happens and you're caught up in some rough stuff. Ever consider a smaller lugger engine to the side with smaller shaft prop for emergencies. Kind of like some smaller mini ship nordhavens have as redundancy.
Getting caught in rough with no power can be a sketchy situation. Really cool little ship in every other regard. I liked the hull folding first time I seen one done like that.
They break the sails out.
Millions of boats and ships traveling the world on one engine
Gotta remember adding anouther engine adds more complexity and more potential issues
@@fowletm1992 it's more of an oh shit engine. Doesn't run all time has one of those folding props like main one but much smaller. Naturally it's under powered but give it hell in emergency and then limp to calmer area or marina to make repairs on main engine. Doesn't really add that much more complexity. Little maintenance because of extra cutlass bearing and filters that is based on run time also which long as main engine works should be close to 0. Here is an example granted this is a motor yacht/trawler ua-cam.com/video/6R48uD_Brm0/v-deo.html
Sails doesn't always work out if caught in certain areas with certain wind conditions. Seen couple incidents of sailing yachts get into rocks if had secondary motor would have never happened. They got out but not without damage and pulling a boat out that size is not so cheap probably cheaper further south of north america but still an extra cost.
@@centosx
Where do you stop though
Very rare for the engine to give up its usually a supporting system so you need dupliate cooling systems duplicate fuel system dupliate electrical systems amd so on
As i said most boat and ships are one engine and very few have sails
Sometimes they fail but for every failure you have literally hundreds of thosands getting around fine
Engines and supporting systens dont just fail you have monertoring systems and perform checks to keep tabs on whata going on
Hald the time accidents happen the ocupants are well aware of thw fault and are trying to limp it somewhere to avoid getting a tow
At some point you just have to say do we really want to lug an extra tonne of crap around the world burning more fuel and carrying less cargo fpr the sack of a 1 in a million event
Then when that event comes round will there be enough time to get the spare engine running and under power
Will that little engine have enough power to push us away from rocks with an incomeing tide and 40 knot winds
Will.that engine even start after sitting unused for 10 yrs waiting for that event
Better to rely on your monitoring systems and better junmdgment to call for assistance before trying to enter a dangerous area looking for repairs knowing your engine hasn't been making good oil presure for a while
@@fowletm1992 true but smaller. Usually it is something outside that fails pumps fuel or cooling, or some electrical issues to those. Middle ocean guess not stranded like the motor yacht would be.
Guess it comes down to preference and funds. Another option electric they are becoming affordable. No exhaust, cooling, pumps basically no maintenance needed. Can't run full speed for long but have a lot of torque no transmission needed. During a good sail you can re-gen also.
Simplest install just have shock absorption in shaft other than that direct connection. Then it's just a motor speed controller and electronic throttle (pot meter basically)
Always thought it would be neat to build something like icebreakers have for propulsion only lot small desiel/electric only now you can add lithium iron in the mix. The li-ion like 18650 technology I feel is a little sketchy on a boat. If it runs away even with a suppressant system those batteries produce their own oxygen.
hi very nice work .
Repaired tank mechanism sounds a lot like magazine repair kits :D
Some deep ship (crap)
This cat is cool deep looks at shi- deep.
Having him can save thousands
These videoes remind me why i am glad i am still not in industrial coatings.
They should have used an Aluminium tank....
Ha lol I love listening to his stories, just something about sitting around in the shop listening to guys bullshit.
Take your boat, get the rest of your flat-earthers, and sail away!
what the heck are you on about?
Too many paint inspection videos!
Sweetheart, I know they told you that you were the center of the universe but mommy and daddy lied to you. I will do what I like and I don't give a fuck what you think about it.
@@SVSeeker Brilliant Doug, a suitable rebuff !!
Coating, Chris, coating!
@@SVSeeker Just laughed my last mouthful of coffee....Respect!!
SV Seeker Doug, I watch your channel because I genuinely think what you are doing is amazing. I have watched from day one and look forward to every video release. I was merely giving an opinion! Criticism can be used in a positive way. It doesn’t have to be an act of war. Keep up the good work, you are a positive role model.