Quakers 'don't need' God?
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- Опубліковано 7 лют 2025
- In this video, I will be discussing Simon Jenkins's 2018 article in the Guardian newspaper titled 'The Quakers are Right. We don't need God'. Please find the article below:
www.theguardia...
I will be talking about whether this is actually the case, the nuances behind the article and the difficulties Quakerism faces in moving beyond traditional Christian language
From my understanding of Quakers, “belief” takes a backseat to seeking and experiencing, which is partly why asking Quakers about their “belief” in God is perhaps a bit of a nonstarter. Being a believer is very different from being a seeker. The root of seeking is observation. Simply looking and not thinking, analyzing, categorizing or labeling what you’re looking at. This is very difficult to do, which is why most people don’t do it.
Outwardly, we must use language, of course, when speaking with others. _God_ as a word in and of itself is not a label, in my opinion. I’m made curious by those who have such a negatively Pavlovian response to the word. To me it speaks more to their unresolved subconscious about their upbringing than anything else; that they perhaps equate the word with an angry dictatorial judge in the clouds ruling with an iron fist rather than the impersonal light which backlights that image…along with all others one could think of. Anyway, a thoughtful video, friend. I really enjoyed the bit where you express the importance of paying homage to the founders and framers; of respecting their verbiage and context. That history cannot, should not, and must not be erased due to discomfort. Discomfort is a bitter medicine. It’s far better for the person, and the world, to deal with the root of one’s discomfort and sort it out rather than imposing one’s discomfort on others to provide comfort to oneself. Thanks for sharing!
This Friend speaks my mind. I feel like all the words used to describe the Spiritual world will necessarily fall short. And I feel like words like "God," "Jesus" and "Christ" have been reduced to mere brands. So you can repeat the words but that actually closes your mind and your spirit to experiencing the reality they're trying to point to.
As a non-Quaker, I found this very interesting. Thany you for creating this channel. I wiil return from time to time to explore Quaker themes and discover if this is a path for me. Bless you.
That would be brilliant, thank you for stopping by!
I love this channel ❤
Thanks, Daniel! Really glad you’re liking it. Let me know if there’s anything in particular you’d like to see!
Aww, thank you. I've got loads of your vids to work through. I'm so happy to have found you and Quaker Speak. So clarifying and reassuring, thank you.
Quakerism without God doesn’t make sense. “God himself has come to lead his people” through the guiding inner light. Is God outside the world? Is God a supernatural being? Or does God exist within the confines the natural world? We can disagree on the answers while still being faithful Quakers. What is indisputable however is that THERE IS THAT OF GOD IN EVERY PERSON, perhaps even in every living thing, and so all of life is worthy of our awe, of our respect, of our praise, and of our quiet worship 🙏
O SENHOR JESUS CRISTO É O VERDADEIRO DEUS E A VIDA ETERNA. 1Jo.5:20,21.
Perhaps Jenkins was insufficiently mindful of a tendency which, to some extent, we all have: looking at a community from the outside and gaining an oversimplistic idea of them. It is interesting, though, to see ourselves as others see us.
I need God. I speak only for myself, I know, but I need God.
I am very attracted to the idea that actions are more important than belief in Quakerism, but that does not mean that belief is altogether irrelevant. Belief allows us (if we have it) to acknowledge the presense of God. There are, of course, Quakers for whom the absence of God is their truth, and I accept that even as I find it difficult to get my head around.
It seems to me that if there is a God (which there is, by the way) then being referred to by calculatedly non-God terms is something He would be entitled to consider rude.
The ultimate truth for me is that God is love. If this is true, then it is equally true that love is God, and therefore whoever does love's work is doing God's work whether they call it that or not. But to avoid being rude to God, I will continue to call God God.
This speaks to me, thank you, Alastair! I wonder whether atheist Friends would say their belief in an absence of God is their truth, or rather that their truth encapsulates something different entirely? Not sure though?
@@Quake-It-UpHi, atheist Friend here. I never really minded the Christian language within Quakerism because it usually means something different from what traditional Christianity does. I came to Quaker Meeting with my grandparents in an effort to escape the Presbyterian church my parents attended. I was opened up to the idea that we didn’t have to be beholden to scripture; that the parts of the Bible that bothered me didn’t have to be true. Eventually I realized that I disagreed with so much of the book I couldn’t honestly call myself Christian.
I still believe there is a spirit or light in each of us that is capable of guiding us, but I don’t think that that spirit is the God of the Bible. The reason I’m still a Quaker, honestly, is because I was allowed to doubt in my First-Day School. Because most Quakers, like Alastair said, are more concerned about actions than beliefs. Most of us are against the idea of disbelief being punishable by hell, so these disagreements are fine to have.
It is good to hear from where words come from.
Is quakerism without God, basically Zen?
A great question. I would still argue that it is not, as both come out of fundamentally different cultures and times. Whilst appearing similar in practice, the rationale and desired 'outcome' of worship is vastly different
Quakers Zen, two completely different concepts. Zen Buddhists would never have run the world's biggest Whaling fleets and slaughtered Whales in vast numbers and they would never have used freed slaves to man the ships.
It may be true to say that we've rejected Jenkins' concept of God.
Very good!
@@Quake-It-Up Thanks QuakeItUp!
Given non-theist Quakers, as Quakers, respect the views of all other's interpretations, for Jenkins to make it into his own edgy anti-theist viewpoint, just seems kind of manipulative almost? Using his misunderstanding of someone else's faith (clearly without much research) just seems disingenous
My 1800 Century "Weasner" German Relatives were Quakers --
Exodus 15:3 . I can not find anything from a Quaker on that verse. My Quaker ancestors did break away and fought in the Civil War. The LORD is a warrior. That tells me it is right to fight in war. P
I suppose Quakers would talk about the ‘spiritual warfare’ rather than worldly war