Go glad to have subscribed to this channel. The best part is he is not reviewing in those big brands which I’m tired is watching. Thank you, man. Lovely contents.
Fascinating. As a retailer myself here in the UK can I just commend you on your attention to detail in these tests...I hope some of the manufacturers are tuning in to your channel. In our part of the world Gore tex holds away with many people largely because of it's name value...your test in this video is particularity interesting as I would have expected at least some movement of air through the fabric...we stock both Arab and Montane so we have begun to move our customers over to E-Vent and/or Neo Shell but neither have much name recognition here as yet...thanks for the excellent vids...
a consumer here from uk... seems like event didnt get popular at all. marketing of goretex is extreme. but from all reviews and blogs i found it seems goretex lasts longer and is more reliable. i found very mixed reviews on event.
Awesome video....thanks for taking the time. I found it by searching around for something that moves air better. Hiking in the wet (but not so cold) lately wearing my Arcteryx Theta AR has left me sweating, even with both (large) pit zips open. I was not aware that eVent was so waterproof and have never even heard of NeoShell. I've always just assumed that all of the other so-called breathable waterproof fabrics were fighting for second-best. Gotta love those marketing dollars, right Gore?
Waterproof, windproof and permeable properties are equally important when justifying performance of an outdoor garment.I personally experienced Gore-Tex and eVent jackets/pants for alpine skiing in contrast conditions, from very cold (-17C), dry, less windy weather in North America, Japan (Niseko) to mild (-4C), wet and very windy (50km/h) environments in Australia.I found Gore-Tex providing more windproof in windy conditions (the wind chill effect can be -25C although the air temperature is only -4C) but I felt damp in warmer days (less wind).I personally found Gore-Tex and eVent are equally waterproof. eVent is better for warmer / less wind conditions or higher activities while Gore-Tex is better for colder/windier conditions.I never consider Neoshell for alpine skiing because it is more permeable and that means less windproof.
Craig, Brilliant video on the pro and cons of the most popular waterproof breathable fabrics on the market. I agree with you on the Gore products as I own the same as well as a bunch of pro shells from Mammut. I live in the north east just below the Canadian boarder. The only time I really use a hard shell is when I'm standing around fishing on the Great Lakes or on the east shore of Maine. Other then that they have really taken a back seat to the others. I ride a sled ski both x country and snowshoe often. Cycle and mountain bike during the summer months and the NeoShell is by far the best on the market. My Montane Neo Shell works flawlessly in ALL conditions whether I use it as a stand alone or as park of a layering winter system. I'm sure your thinking back in the day when Paclite and Performance Shell were the cats meow. I do love my RAB eVent as well. My Pro Shells are in my truck for emergencies. I will admit the Pro Shell wears like iron, before I purchased the other fabrics I used the Mammut and Millet jackets all the time, even if it was to take the dog for a stroll around the block. Again thanks for all the great and informative videos. I'm sorry not to have been a customer of your because there are two mom and pop outfitters here in Syracuse, NY that I feel compelled to purchase from. Anthony
Thank you for your explanation. I've just picked up a nearly new Gore Tex Pro Shell jacket and trousers for motorcycling. As I ride all year round in all weathers this suit is perfect. But it is very worthwhile knowing it isn't breathable, as some days can be sunny which invites sweating , so I'll wear something else on those days.
I'm very happy to see you doing your own in-house testing and giving a very simple yet effective rundown of what the differences between technical fabrics really are. I work for a large outdoor retailer in Sweden and I'm sorry to say that 90% of the high-end jackets sold here (in Sweden and Scandinavia, across all retailers) are still Gore fabrics even though they are struggling to keep up with current developments when it comes to air permeability and breathability. Only as late as the last couple of years the average user have begun realizing that hydrostatic head is only a small part of what makes a good all-rounded jacket. I very much enjoy watching your comparison and instructional videos and I consider the ProLiteGear channel one of UA-cam's best when it comes to information about outdoor gear! I'm looking forward to many more videos! Keep up the good work!
Markus, thank for the nice comment. I am actually surprised Gore has not already come out with something that competes more favorably against NeoShell and eVENT.
ProLiteGear Since outdoor clothing is only a small part of Gore's overall focus I think the problem lies in that they do not put enough time and money in to dedicated R&D as they seem to rather modify and improve their current recipe instead of thinking outside the box and creating something new. Gore-Tex biggest asset is also it's biggest weakness as it is a very tried and trusted material, yet far too old (some thirty odd years) to be made "revolutionary" again in today's market.
ProLiteGear Well, if Gore came out with something truly revolutionary or comparable to air permeable hardshell fabrics, then they'd have to market that as being superior to their "legendary" and old technology, which would kill their Gore-Tex business. Most people are content with having Gore-Tex products as a rain / snow shell because it still does what it's been doing best all of these years: completely water/wind proof while also being tough and burly. If people overheat, they simply dump the heat with pitzips. I personally never experienced having my own sweat getting stuck inside my jacket while wearing Gore-Tex Pro, so there's no need to switch to a softshell or other hardshell products such as eVent, Neoshell, Dry.Q Elite, etc.
That would be interesting. We are not currently a dealer for Marmot, so I am going to have to see if I can get a PreCip jacket at a really good price. If I get one, I will test it out for you.
I cannot express how grateful I am for this video. The official GoreTex website describes its "Active" shell as the most breathable jacket. Obviously in terms of this feature, it is same as GoreTex Pro, that is to say, not air-permeable at all!
Thanks for taking the time to share. Admittedly, it would be interesting to see the steam test you mentioned. I feel that is more similar to your's body's perspiration than pushing air through. I liked event in my old keens, now it is almost impossible to find a jacket that uses it. Those two other jackets seem much lighter and less durable than gore-tex. i hard once that gore is not the mose breathable, not the most waterproof, but is the best when once combine waterproofness, breathability, and durability
Good points here. Plus, I had a pair of Gore-Tex pants that started to de-laminate after around 5 years of hard use and they were replaced by Gore-Tex for free because they have a spectacular warranty on every product they license...
It may be nearly 2018, but I am so glad I found your channel and this video. I'm shocked by the lack of air permiability inherent in the GoreTex fabrics, wow... I bought the stuff with the expectation that it was better than a rubber fireman's jacket, but I mwas duped by what may be the most diabolical advertising campaign of our modern era. I'm truly upset, and perplexed at how GoreTex could even advertise as anything approaching breathable. Their campaign should be "Goretex, 10% less sweaty than rubber, eureka ! " It's been over 3 years since this video, which I'm very thankful for, has there been any new fabrics that have impressed you, or have come closer to truly breathable?
Gore-Tex has a reputation because of the performance it provides and the overall quality of its products based on decades of use by companies. You don't like the air permeability but you like the waterproofness... Well, there is science backing up the balance between permeability and resistance to water molecules penetrating pores which I'm not going to get into. He clearly states that he thinks Patagonia makes the best jackets. Maybe you should look for those overpriced pieces of wearable status symbols. Talk about advertising campaigns....
@@brynmrsh , gee Bryan , whom do you work for fan boy? What? Did you think I'd change my mind because of your devotion to a brand? My opinion is unchanged, and in line with a vast majority of people. The market is full of products that use the same concept as Gore. It's not the market leading company it used to be. Everybody understands the water droplets are larger than water vapor, thus allowing the Gore material to be somewhat breathable. But if you attain any level of activity higher than standing still , the Gore material is quickly over powered by water vapor trying to escape, especially if the outer surface is wet. Its claims in advertising are worded in a way that makes it seem magical, but it falls short of its goal. That's my opinion. By the way, you'd think you would be slightly more prompt at disagreeing with me? I posted my opinion nearly 3 years ago, and in all that time, your the only person in disagreement? I think the timeframe speaks for itself.
This test shows that eVent and NeoShell Membranes are NOT as WINDPROOF as Gore Tex membranes. Hence the key difference between Breathability (i.e. ability to absorb and evacuate water VAPOR) and air permeability (i.e. ability to block air flow). The air pumped through the fabric in this video could be wind (or air displacement when on a bike), which would be felt in the case of eVent ans NeoShell membranes. Breathability is measured (as mentioned in the video) by the amount of water vapor that can be conveyed through the membrane in a given amount of time. It would have been interesting instead to measure the breathability of a winstopper membrane (used in softshell) vs the breathability of Active shell.
i'd say the eVent and NeoShell provide more than adequate wind protection... you must understand that air pumps push air at MUCH higher pounds per inch than wind
You are absolutely correct. This test is not about movement of WATER VAPOR (i.e., sweat vapor), it's about movement of AIR. Big difference, but presenter confuses the two.
Informative video thanks. Here in Great Britian there is quite a following for ventile as a material. What are your opinions and any experience? Thanks
I thought it was Vapour Goretex moved through the jacket with heat expansion not just how much cold air it'll move through the membrane, Honestly I have GoreTex Pro jacket and a Event jacket and the pro has never once let a drop in but the event did in a big downpour, Living in UK ~Scottish weather has beaten Event on my extended trips while the Goretex Pro didn't get beat, Never sweated too much in one or the other either, I don't think saying one is better then the other because each is better in dynamic situations, Non the less a nice video.
Very informative video. What would you recommend for breathability for high intensity aerobic pursuits (running) in steady rain, say up to 1-3 hours? In order of your preference. Thanks.
I love your tests, really helpful. can you explain what is the difference between Gore-Tex Infinium in a softshell and Gore-tex C-Knit in a hardshell it would be great! thanks from the Netherlands
Hey Craig Just had question if Gortex Pro will be compromised over time if creased/folded or twisted repeatedly. My arteryx jacket is a bit noisy "reminds me of tyvek this way" and was thinking of twisting it a bit to break it in and reduce noise. Thanks!
The question is, what happens after half an hour in the rain when the jacket fabrics wet out. Which dries faster and which would be more comfortable? I do believe the good jacket dries fastest as it has thin outer layer, thick inner layer and side zips.
thank you! this does not simulate vapor diffusion! It actually shows a looser weave fabric being penetrated by forced air. this means it is not as windproof, or water proof.
Do you have any experience with TNF Apex ClimateBlock shells? How does it compare to Neoshell. I saw a really great deal on an older TNF Jet hooded jacket but it doesn't have pit zips and I'll be using it for climbing and hiking. It's either that or an EMS Helix with Neoshell. I'm just looking for a waterproof, windproof and air permeable shell. Thanks!
I really expected at least some bubbles coming through the gore active. Guess you've proved me wrong. Live and learn. Thank you. My question still is what is the difference between gore pro and gore active other than the obvious (weight, wear)?
Hello I'm Guido from Argentina, I always see your videos are very educational, I wanted to ask if you have tested tents made of goretex or similar fabrics that are waterproof and breathable (Conduit, Precip, eVent) and what is your opinion. Thanks and greetings from south america.
Great information. I have Patagonia knifeblade and Marmot Zion Neo shell jacket, but as I read Polartec Neo shel and Powershild Pro membrane will lose waterproof ability after just couple of washing and that Gore Tex Pro won't. Can You get as more information about how to take care of jackets with this materials, because I am thinking not to buy any more, if they can't last more then a season. What is Your experience with Neo, Event, Powershild pro comparing to Gore Tex in the meaning of durability after couple of washing. Which one will degrade faster or which one is easiest to care of. Thanks
This guy is incorrectly using "air permeability" and "breathability " interchangeably. Gore-Tex allows for moisture vapor breathability. As the vapor pressure from your body builds it will diffuse through the Gore-Tex fabric because it is greater than the vapor pressure outside the jacket. This will work even in high humidity as long as temperatures are not too high (physics). Sure the others may be more air permeable but that also means air gets IN and so you will feel that windchill effect and increase the chances of water penetration with just a little pressure (like from leaning against a tree during rain). A Gore-Tex jacket will keep you dry from rain even with pressure and is completely wind proof. Hi perm jackets will be more "airy" but allow wind to penetrate and water to get in more easily as the jacket begins to wet out or any pressure occurs.
HAHA just wrote the coment below before you mentioned the Helium 2... I have one but its not waterproof! and yes its not breathable! But its a brilliant windproof/water resistant option. And has enough room for a Snugpak Softie underneath when bushcrafting T
Thanks for the response! It is amazing how dominant goretex is in the market, I am starting to regret my recent patagonia super pluma purchase. Do you know if testing with water vapour/steam will produce different results?
I have used a commercial steam machine and held it to the inside of the jacket, and we have also used the cup of hot water test as well. I personally don't think those are valid because the moisture coming off of your body is not nearly that hot. The "best" test is to put each of the jackets on and run up a mountain side... you can really tell a difference then. :)
@ProLiteGear These statements and tests are completely misleading. The volume of water vapor coming from your body is nothing compared to a garment steamer and they should not be used to demonstrate anything except that vaporized water passes through the membrane. Water evaporates at all temperatures above freezing, depending on the humidity of the outside air and your sweat does the same. Laws of chemistry show that molecules pass from areas of higher concentration to lower, so if it's more humid outside than inside your jacket, no fabric/membrane system will make your sweat from inside dry up. It's physically impossible.
I'm looking for a do it all shell, snow, rain, etc. I spend most of my time in the cascades, so pretty wet sometimes. Polartec looks good but are their fabrics waterproof enough? I like how breathable they seem, but I've also heard a lot about how they don't hold up very long as in delaminating and losing waterproofness. Can you comment on polartec or point me to a fabric that would better suit my needs? I'm open to more of a softshell solution if it keeps my dry even when bushwhacking through wet alder.
Gore-Tex warranties all of their products for lifetime. This is why even uber expensive Arc'teryx uses them. If there were better fabrics for what they design their products for they would definitely use them. You can't possibly get fabric which is completely wind proof, water proof and air permeable. It's a balance of which you want.
I'm wondering if you've had any feed back from manufacturers re the Gore tests and in particular the Gore Active which is being promoted as hyper breathable...
Great information as always. Could you do a video on goretex paclite? What is the difference in that material, if any? Is that still considered to be a hardshell? Thanks!
It has been a few years since we have had a product that uses Gore-Tex PacLite in the store, so I am doing this from memory. It is 2 layer, meaning the "plastic" feeling membrane is the lining. It is lightweight, compressible, and inexpensive but as I recall that lack of air permeability and having that plastic membrane up against your skin made it pretty miserable to wear in high exertion activities. I just checked my gear closet, and I used to have a pair of rain pants that were made with PacLite because I am not as concerned about air permeability in rain pants. I "upgraded" my rain pants, and so no longer have those to test. PacLite is probably okay for an inexpensive rain jacket to toss in your golf bag, but in my opinion there are much better solutions for wind and water resistant shells. If I come across something that uses PacLite I will definitely test it so that have a video record of it. Thanks!
Yes - absolutely - the face fabric the membrane is bonded to can make a big difference. I actually had a fabric developer in the store yesterday and he was trying different face and liner fabrics with an insulation he is developing to see what allowed for good air permeability yet also supported an adequate hydrostatic head. It was very interesting to talk with him, and I hope to get him on video in the future.
A lot of misinformation coming from this video still, no jackets on the market use GoreTex Pro Shell anymore, about 4 months after this video Goretex came out with their new material GoreTex Pro. Prolite Gear made a video comparing the two and the new Pro performs EXTREMELY better in air permeability, just search on their UA-cam channel "New GoreTex Pro" and the video should come up! Long story short, Craig says the new Pro is roughly on par with neoshell in the air-permeability, while the Neoshell is just slightly more air-permeable.
Great video!!.... BUT! Isn’t Gore-Tex based on diffusion? , which means that due to the difference in pressure on both sides of the membrane the water molecule, not the air, is forced thru the Gore-Tex fabric. In this case you wouldn’t see the “steam” coming thru the membrane because you had water on the outer side of it (water molecules are released into water). Please correct me if I’m wrong!!
vapor pressure? So, it takes 212 degrees F boiling water for Gore-Tex to function as described? bahaha Face it, Gore-Tex was an absolute LIE and FAILURE from the get go; which used large advertising budgets to bamboozle ignorant Consumers.
Real eye opener -- thanks so much for the comparison vid. If Gore Tex is completely impermeable to air then why are they always advertised as "breathable?" Kind of a scam.....
I wonder what would be a good jacket for cycling? I live in the netherlands and commute everyday by bike for 13 km back and forth and this 40 minutes of cycling tends to get sweaty. In the winter it doesn't get much colder then -5 degrees C, but it's often wet and rainy. When it's dry I can get by wearing an old cotton army coat (a nato jacket) which is breathable and windproof enough with a good fleece midlayer underneath. However in the authum I have to resort to a standard nylon rain jacket which is really uncomfortable as it gets sweaty. I wonder how air permable it is (plain, regular nylon in particlair) and how it compares to softshell jackets. As a side note, I'll always wear a backpack, so the back especially gets wet, even in the winter. It has to be really cold not to get sweaty. Cycling is a very active use case which I think would be an ultimate test for products like activeshell. Have you tried any of these jackets under such circomstances and what is your experience with them under highly active use cases?
+dykodesigns2yt if you end up wet after your cycling, than your jacket is not perfoming as "breathable", meaning, moisture is not getting away fast enough or at all, so it stays under coat. That leads to fast heat loss and under windy conditions you risk to get ill. You should get a soft shell, even a cheap one, which soldiers use, is better than simple rain jacket. They have opening under arms, which lets you ventilate armpits and back. The modern soft shells perform much better of course. As they said on video, you have to experiment yourself, which jacket works better for you, but I like the test they did here. It is easy to conclude that you should go for eVent or NeoShell jacket if you do sports in wet or slightly cold weather.
+dykodesigns2yt Hi I cycle alot and found out Softshells are best. Im using a cheap Softshell from Decathlon www.decathlon.de/bergsteiger-softshell-alpinism-herren-id_8331052.html?origin=pla&gclid=CjwKEAiAtf6zBRDS0oCLrL37gFUSJACr2JYbp5w6GqxsOAA4diu209Yvd3eNhertpSjNEP9AC3kCIBoCrarw_wcB
What people fail to understand is that all these "breatheable" fabrics are made for walking around town, in and out of the rain and, most def, NOT with a pack on your back. THEN, maybe, they will do as they say...l.maybe.
Anyway you could do this similar test with the Polartec Power Shield Pro vs. NeoShell, etc ...? I'm a big fan of Power Shield Pro, but unfortunately it's hard to find these days. I heard a rumor that Patagonia discontinued the Knifeblade series because the Power Shield Pro fabric is just too expensive. Besides for Patagonia, I only know of Montane using the fabric. I think Outdoor Research dabbled with it, but no "solid" Power Shield Pro jackets or pants to my knowledge. I wish more manufacturers considered Power Shield Pro. You hit the nail on the head, Craig - with the advancement of the softshell fabrics, hardshells my become obsolete one of these days! I would also love to see a video on Dry.Q Elite as well. I'm not sure if you guys carry Mountain Hardwear, but from what I've read online, Dry.Q Elite gets great reviews and so does their Thermal.Q Elite line. A review on both of them would be much appreciated !! I'd love to see how Thermal.Q Elite compares to PrimLoft One, especially with Mountain Hardwear's claim that Dry.Q Elite is supposedly 30% warmer than anything currently on the market. Since we're talking synthetic insulation, any real-world knowledge with The North Face's Thermoball insulation?? You guys have the best reviews on UA-cam, hands down! Thank you so much for taking the time to do that for us!
Great video, but you say your pro shell jacket is over 2 years old, but Pro shell was re-designed last year and is much more breathable. I use mine in the Florida keys and don't have issues getting too hot, and chose it over eVent or DryQ Elite jackets for its durability. Also, can you test DryQ Elite. I want to see if it is exactly like eVent or slightly different
Wow, you wear Gore-Tex Pro in Florida...? That's kinda overkill. I don't think these guys will compare / test Dry.Q Elite because that's Mountain Hardwear's proprietary technology and they're not a MH dealer. But you're right, it'd be interesting to see how it'd compare to eVent and other fabrics.
I believe Dry.Q is eVENT that is "tweaked" a bit, or at least that is what I was told, that Mountain Hardwear worked with GE on it to make it a bit more air permeable and stretchy, but I will try to get some to test in the future so that I can have first hand experience with it vs. speculating. As always, thanks for the suggestion.
Gambit166 It would be overkill on land, but I don't feel like it is at sea, which is when I generally use it, especially if a storm comes in, or waves are high, because then I'm getting consistently more wet than one would even in a downpour on land. I haven't seen many jackets for marine use that use anything but Pro Shell or Active Shell, maybe because eVent or NeoShell wouldnt hold up as well in that kind of inundation? I'd probably rather take NeoShell or eVent backpacking in a warm or temperate environment, though. Also, I didn't buy my Beta AR for marine use specifically, more for winter backpacking or climbing, but it's proven its usefulness at sea
Great test for air permeability, i.e. Windproof. Rubbish test for breathability. This test only proves that the gore-tex jackets are more windproof than the eVent and the neo-shell jackets
+Breno Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Presumably air permeability helps a lot with breathability, but also means less wind protection. Breathability of Gore-Tex as I understand it has to do with the difference in vapor pressure inside your jacket v. outside, which pushes water vapor out.
It's just a shame that the face fabric quality on other manufacturers isn't up to scratch. Time after time, Gore lasts better, and that's because because better brands use it.
Hello guys, i have one problem with my Mammut Meron Gore tex Pro (2013 generation) So i used this jacket 7 times only, in the beging DWR was fine, water was sliping down, when i was testing the jacket on raining day. So when i was on mountain i notice that DWR is completly gone, evry drop of water or snow flake make a wet spot on jacket and after 10-15 minutes i look completly wte. So is this normal for brand new jacket i mean jacket that was new but used 7 times???
Koliko se secam citao sam vec negde o tome u vezi mammut-a bas modeli iz 2013. gde se dogadjala ista stvar. Pod predpostavkom da je jakna original resenje ti je da kupis "grangers wash and repel 2 u 1" ima ga u iglusport. Odlicna stvar, inace mozes da peres jaknu u tome a sluzi i kao impregnacija za sve tipove gtx-a, klasican dwr. Posto zahteva susenje u masini za susenje vesa a u slucaju da nemas koristi peglu. Stavi neki peskir na jaknu pa preko toga peglaj na najblazoj temperaturi. Ja tako tretiram moje jakne (active shell) i funkcionise bolje nego kad su bile nove.
Fast forward to 2021, and eVent and Neoshell have almost completely vanished, in addition to softshells becoming less prevalent in the lineup of many of the major outerwear manufacturers. More manufacturers have moved to their own proprietary membrane techs, probably to avoid licensing costs. But the consumers and manufacturers have all seemed to say "Gore-Pro is breathable enough" and left the debate behind.
how do you figure that eVent has vanished? one of the most popular motorcycle outdoor brands, mosko moto, uses eVent. i have both event jacket and pants, bought in the past year and past month, and they outperform all my goretex pro stuff. eVent seems live and kicking. also, the popular sea to summit compression sacks all use eVent
@@damytzeus walk into outdoor retailer and see what your eVent options are. It’s basically non-existent. 6 years ago almost every outdoor brand had eVent as an option. No longer. They’ve all doubled down on Gore-Tex, or using an in-house membrane like Patagonia did with H2NO. eVent has one foot in the grave.
@@damytzeus hell yes they do. There’s long been rumors Gore-Tex threatened some outerwear makers over their use of other waterproof membranes. Everyone falls in line because Gore-Tex is the market leader. It’s a shame because this really stifles innovation and adoption.
I'm interested to see how Gore-Tex C Knit stacks up. It looks similar to Polartec, but it's hard to see through the hype. Please do an updated video including C Knit! Additionally, some sort of comparison of the best Polartec/eVent/C Knit jackets would be excellent
I'm still undecided. Goretex themselves said this test proves that their membrane is windproof, not that it's not breathable. Steam can still pass through. What's your opinion on this? Are they lying, or this test should be reconsidered?
Thanks for the info. I agree that the best (only REAL) test is to try them during strenuous activity. IMHO Gore Tex is living off its reputation established 30 (or more?) years ago. STP
Yes, I agree. I have 10/10K jacket with side zips and a gore-tex Lafuma without side zips. In dry conditions I have exercised in both, and while the gore-tex is 50% more breathable appx than the 10k jacket, once the side-zips have been opened the difference became 10% only. The gore-tex jacket is a thin 3 pocket jacket for an extra 30% price. The 10K has 5 pockets and side zips and is a 3 in one design. Not inferior at all.
this is stupid-science... the compressor creates about 0,3 bar of pressure (which equals 3 meter of water column) inside your jacket there will never be this pressure because of the open ends (arms, bottom, hood) TRY IT: put your mouth on the neoshell and try to blow throu the material... no chance
While your permeability test shows that the fabrics do or do not allow air at an unspecified pressure, it would be really nice if you explain scientifically that no membrane/fabric combination is a one way valve, and if air goes through from inside, it also will penetrate from the outside. Don't just say that it's up to the viewer to determine whether the tests are valid. Also, your comment about a five day river trip with rain every night not being a really, really wet environment seems a little odd. Only conditions being wetter than that, aside from scuba diving perhaps, is crab fishing, which Gore-Tex makes some pretty spectacular dry suits for... This review basically told me that none of these are worth purchasing. I guess I'm going to be buying a Patagucci outfit as soon as I make more money.
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Go glad to have subscribed to this channel. The best part is he is not reviewing in those big brands which I’m tired is watching. Thank you, man. Lovely contents.
Fascinating. As a retailer myself here in the UK can I just commend you on your attention to detail in these tests...I hope some of the manufacturers are tuning in to your channel. In our part of the world Gore tex holds away with many people largely because of it's name value...your test in this video is particularity interesting as I would have expected at least some movement of air through the fabric...we stock both Arab and Montane so we have begun to move our customers over to E-Vent and/or Neo Shell but neither have much name recognition here as yet...thanks for the excellent vids...
a consumer here from uk...
seems like event didnt get popular at all. marketing of goretex is extreme.
but from all reviews and blogs i found it seems goretex lasts longer and is more reliable. i found very mixed reviews on event.
Awesome video....thanks for taking the time. I found it by searching around for something that moves air better. Hiking in the wet (but not so cold) lately wearing my Arcteryx Theta AR has left me sweating, even with both (large) pit zips open.
I was not aware that eVent was so waterproof and have never even heard of NeoShell. I've always just assumed that all of the other so-called breathable waterproof fabrics were fighting for second-best. Gotta love those marketing dollars, right Gore?
Waterproof, windproof and permeable properties are equally important when justifying performance of an outdoor garment.I personally experienced Gore-Tex and eVent jackets/pants for alpine skiing in contrast conditions, from very cold (-17C), dry, less windy weather in North America, Japan (Niseko) to mild (-4C), wet and very windy (50km/h) environments in Australia.I found Gore-Tex providing more windproof in windy conditions (the wind chill effect can be -25C although the air temperature is only -4C) but I felt damp in warmer days (less wind).I personally found Gore-Tex and eVent are equally waterproof. eVent is better for warmer / less wind conditions or higher activities while Gore-Tex is better for colder/windier conditions.I never consider Neoshell for alpine skiing because it is more permeable and that means less windproof.
Craig,
Brilliant video on the pro and cons of the most popular waterproof breathable fabrics on the market. I agree with you on the Gore products as I own the same as well as a bunch of pro shells from Mammut. I live in the north east just below the Canadian boarder. The only time I really use a hard shell is when I'm standing around fishing on the Great Lakes or on the east shore of Maine. Other then that they have really taken a back seat to the others. I ride a sled ski both x country and snowshoe often. Cycle and mountain bike during the summer months and the NeoShell is by far the best on the market. My Montane Neo Shell works flawlessly in ALL conditions whether I use it as a stand alone or as park of a layering winter system. I'm sure your thinking back in the day when Paclite and Performance Shell were the cats meow. I do love my RAB eVent as well. My Pro Shells are in my truck for emergencies. I will admit the Pro Shell wears like iron, before I purchased the other fabrics I used the Mammut and Millet jackets all the time, even if it was to take the dog for a stroll around the block. Again thanks for all the great and informative videos. I'm sorry not to have been a customer of your because there are two mom and pop outfitters here in Syracuse, NY that I feel compelled to purchase from.
Anthony
Thank you for the demonstration. I found it very helpful.
Thank you for your explanation. I've just picked up a nearly new Gore Tex Pro Shell jacket and trousers for motorcycling. As I ride all year round in all weathers this suit is perfect. But it is very worthwhile knowing it isn't breathable, as some days can be sunny which invites sweating , so I'll wear something else on those days.
Most useful post, thanks heaps for your valuable info! :)
I'm very happy to see you doing your own in-house testing and giving a very simple yet effective rundown of what the differences between technical fabrics really are.
I work for a large outdoor retailer in Sweden and I'm sorry to say that 90% of the high-end jackets sold here (in Sweden and Scandinavia, across all retailers) are still Gore fabrics even though they are struggling to keep up with current developments when it comes to air permeability and breathability.
Only as late as the last couple of years the average user have begun realizing that hydrostatic head is only a small part of what makes a good all-rounded jacket.
I very much enjoy watching your comparison and instructional videos and I consider the ProLiteGear channel one of UA-cam's best when it comes to information about outdoor gear!
I'm looking forward to many more videos!
Keep up the good work!
Markus, thank for the nice comment. I am actually surprised Gore has not already come out with something that competes more favorably against NeoShell and eVENT.
ProLiteGear Since outdoor clothing is only a small part of Gore's overall focus I think the problem lies in that they do not put enough time and money in to dedicated R&D as they seem to rather modify and improve their current recipe instead of thinking outside the box and creating something new. Gore-Tex biggest asset is also it's biggest weakness as it is a very tried and trusted material, yet far too old (some thirty odd years) to be made "revolutionary" again
in today's market.
ProLiteGear Well, if Gore came out with something truly revolutionary or comparable to air permeable hardshell fabrics, then they'd have to market that as being superior to their "legendary" and old technology, which would kill their Gore-Tex business. Most people are content with having Gore-Tex products as a rain / snow shell because it still does what it's been doing best all of these years: completely water/wind proof while also being tough and burly. If people overheat, they simply dump the heat with pitzips. I personally never experienced having my own sweat getting stuck inside my jacket while wearing Gore-Tex Pro, so there's no need to switch to a softshell or other hardshell products such as eVent, Neoshell, Dry.Q Elite, etc.
This is very educational. I would like to see the air permeability test on Marmot's PreCip fabric. Thanks for taking the time to post this.
That would be interesting. We are not currently a dealer for Marmot, so I am going to have to see if I can get a PreCip jacket at a really good price. If I get one, I will test it out for you.
I cannot express how grateful I am for this video. The official GoreTex website describes its "Active" shell as the most breathable jacket. Obviously in terms of this feature, it is same as GoreTex Pro, that is to say, not air-permeable at all!
great video. have amazing knowledge of the subject! Thanks so much
Im from Maldives btw
Thanks for taking the time to share. Admittedly, it would be interesting to see the steam test you mentioned. I feel that is more similar to your's body's perspiration than pushing air through. I liked event in my old keens, now it is almost impossible to find a jacket that uses it. Those two other jackets seem much lighter and less durable than gore-tex. i hard once that gore is not the mose breathable, not the most waterproof, but is the best when once combine waterproofness, breathability, and durability
Good points here. Plus, I had a pair of Gore-Tex pants that started to de-laminate after around 5 years of hard use and they were replaced by Gore-Tex for free because they have a spectacular warranty on every product they license...
Great video! Thanks for explaining.
You know your stuff. Great vid
It may be nearly 2018, but I am so glad I found your channel and this video. I'm shocked by the lack of air permiability inherent in the GoreTex fabrics, wow... I bought the stuff with the expectation that it was better than a rubber fireman's jacket, but I mwas duped by what may be the most diabolical advertising campaign of our modern era. I'm truly upset, and perplexed at how GoreTex could even advertise as anything approaching breathable. Their campaign should be "Goretex, 10% less sweaty than rubber, eureka ! " It's been over 3 years since this video, which I'm very thankful for, has there been any new fabrics that have impressed you, or have come closer to truly breathable?
Gore-Tex has a reputation because of the performance it provides and the overall quality of its products based on decades of use by companies. You don't like the air permeability but you like the waterproofness... Well, there is science backing up the balance between permeability and resistance to water molecules penetrating pores which I'm not going to get into. He clearly states that he thinks Patagonia makes the best jackets. Maybe you should look for those overpriced pieces of wearable status symbols. Talk about advertising campaigns....
@@brynmrsh , gee Bryan , whom do you work for fan boy? What? Did you think I'd change my mind because of your devotion to a brand? My opinion is unchanged, and in line with a vast majority of people. The market is full of products that use the same concept as Gore. It's not the market leading company it used to be. Everybody understands the water droplets are larger than water vapor, thus allowing the Gore material to be somewhat breathable. But if you attain any level of activity higher than standing still , the Gore material is quickly over powered by water vapor trying to escape, especially if the outer surface is wet. Its claims in advertising are worded in a way that makes it seem magical, but it falls short of its goal. That's my opinion.
By the way, you'd think you would be slightly more prompt at disagreeing with me? I posted my opinion nearly 3 years ago, and in all that time, your the only person in disagreement? I think the timeframe speaks for itself.
Great video & very informative.
This test shows that eVent and NeoShell Membranes are NOT as WINDPROOF as Gore Tex membranes. Hence the key difference between Breathability (i.e. ability to absorb and evacuate water VAPOR) and air permeability (i.e. ability to block air flow).
The air pumped through the fabric in this video could be wind (or air displacement when on a bike), which would be felt in the case of eVent ans NeoShell membranes. Breathability is measured (as mentioned in the video) by the amount of water vapor that can be conveyed through the membrane in a given amount of time.
It would have been interesting instead to measure the breathability of a winstopper membrane (used in softshell) vs the breathability of Active shell.
i'd say the eVent and NeoShell provide more than adequate wind protection... you must understand that air pumps push air at MUCH higher pounds per inch than wind
You are absolutely correct. This test is not about movement of WATER VAPOR (i.e., sweat vapor), it's about movement of AIR. Big difference, but presenter confuses the two.
Informative video thanks. Here in Great Britian there is quite a following for ventile as a material. What are your opinions and any experience?
Thanks
Great video. Could you post a side by side test of NeoShell and Power Shield Pro fabric?
I thought it was Vapour Goretex moved through the jacket with heat expansion not just how much cold air it'll move through the membrane, Honestly I have GoreTex Pro jacket and a Event jacket and the pro has never once let a drop in but the event did in a big downpour, Living in UK ~Scottish weather has beaten Event on my extended trips while the Goretex Pro didn't get beat, Never sweated too much in one or the other either, I don't think saying one is better then the other because each is better in dynamic situations, Non the less a nice video.
can u do a video or tell me how the ZETA (arc'teryx) compares in AP?
Very informative video. What would you recommend for breathability for high intensity aerobic pursuits (running) in steady rain, say up to 1-3 hours? In order of your preference. Thanks.
Very informative, thank you!
I love your tests, really helpful. can you explain what is the difference between Gore-Tex Infinium in a softshell and Gore-tex C-Knit in a hardshell
it would be great!
thanks from the Netherlands
Hey Craig Just had question if Gortex Pro will be compromised over time if creased/folded or twisted repeatedly. My arteryx jacket is a bit noisy "reminds me of tyvek this way" and was thinking of twisting it a bit to break it in and reduce noise. Thanks!
The question is, what happens after half an hour in the rain when the jacket fabrics wet out. Which dries faster and which would be more comfortable?
I do believe the good jacket dries fastest as it has thin outer layer, thick inner layer and side zips.
I really dig the jacket you are wearing! Can you tell me what jacket it is? Thanks!
Dear Pro Lite Gear, is the Patagonia knifeblade jacket a warm winter jacket, or is it wearable on a rainy spring/summer day?
Gore-Tex needs a difference in relative humidity to force diffusion so this is why there are no air bubbles seen in this test.
thank you! this does not simulate vapor diffusion! It actually shows a looser weave fabric being penetrated by forced air. this means it is not as windproof, or water proof.
Do you have any experience with TNF Apex ClimateBlock shells? How does it compare to Neoshell. I saw a really great deal on an older TNF Jet hooded jacket but it doesn't have pit zips and I'll be using it for climbing and hiking. It's either that or an EMS Helix with Neoshell. I'm just looking for a waterproof, windproof and air permeable shell. Thanks!
Hi ! Thank you for this really good video ! Do you know where is it possible to by this test machine ??
I really expected at least some bubbles coming through the gore active. Guess you've proved me wrong. Live and learn. Thank you. My question still is what is the difference between gore pro and gore active other than the obvious (weight, wear)?
I just ordered the Columbia Loch Lomond jacket and wondered if you have any experience with Omni Dry.
Hello I'm Guido from Argentina, I always see your videos are very educational, I wanted to ask if you have tested tents made of goretex or similar fabrics that are waterproof and breathable (Conduit, Precip, eVent) and what is your opinion. Thanks and greetings from south america.
Great information. I have Patagonia knifeblade and Marmot Zion Neo shell jacket, but as I read Polartec Neo shel and Powershild Pro membrane will lose waterproof ability after just couple of washing and that Gore Tex Pro won't.
Can You get as more information about how to take care of jackets with this materials, because I am thinking not to buy any more, if they can't last more then a season. What is Your experience with Neo, Event, Powershild pro comparing to Gore Tex in the meaning of durability after couple of washing. Which one will degrade faster or which one is easiest to care of.
Thanks
would you recommend a neoshell for skiing with properly layered underneath?
Out of the 4 shells that you tested which shell stays waterproof the longest? Thank You.
This guy is incorrectly using "air permeability" and "breathability " interchangeably. Gore-Tex allows for moisture vapor breathability. As the vapor pressure from your body builds it will diffuse through the Gore-Tex fabric because it is greater than the vapor pressure outside the jacket. This will work even in high humidity as long as temperatures are not too high (physics). Sure the others may be more air permeable but that also means air gets IN and so you will feel that windchill effect and increase the chances of water penetration with just a little pressure (like from leaning against a tree during rain). A Gore-Tex jacket will keep you dry from rain even with pressure and is completely wind proof. Hi perm jackets will be more "airy" but allow wind to penetrate and water to get in more easily as the jacket begins to wet out or any pressure occurs.
Hello, I got very curious about this black jacket u wearing, have u done a review of it yet. And what's the name of it, please let me know, thank u
Great Video. I saw a video where Marmot referred to Neoshell as a "soft shell". Would you agree?
HAHA just wrote the coment below before you mentioned the Helium 2... I have one but its not waterproof! and yes its not breathable! But its a brilliant windproof/water resistant option. And has enough room for a Snugpak Softie underneath when bushcrafting
T
Thanks for the response! It is amazing how dominant goretex is in the market, I am starting to regret my recent patagonia super pluma purchase. Do you know if testing with water vapour/steam will produce different results?
I have used a commercial steam machine and held it to the inside of the jacket, and we have also used the cup of hot water test as well. I personally don't think those are valid because the moisture coming off of your body is not nearly that hot. The "best" test is to put each of the jackets on and run up a mountain side... you can really tell a difference then. :)
@ProLiteGear These statements and tests are completely misleading. The volume of water vapor coming from your body is nothing compared to a garment steamer and they should not be used to demonstrate anything except that vaporized water passes through the membrane. Water evaporates at all temperatures above freezing, depending on the humidity of the outside air and your sweat does the same. Laws of chemistry show that molecules pass from areas of higher concentration to lower, so if it's more humid outside than inside your jacket, no fabric/membrane system will make your sweat from inside dry up. It's physically impossible.
What is air permeability of:1) Coreloft Jacket; 2) Patagania Nano Air Jacket; 3) Berghaus Vapourlight Hypertherm Jacket and some other new materials?
I'm looking for a do it all shell, snow, rain, etc. I spend most of my time in the cascades, so pretty wet sometimes. Polartec looks good but are their fabrics waterproof enough? I like how breathable they seem, but I've also heard a lot about how they don't hold up very long as in delaminating and losing waterproofness. Can you comment on polartec or point me to a fabric that would better suit my needs? I'm open to more of a softshell solution if it keeps my dry even when bushwhacking through wet alder.
Owen Tolley buy a jacket to last a life time, PARAMO very breathable and very waterproof, after 14 years mine is still going strong, bomb proof
Gore-Tex warranties all of their products for lifetime. This is why even uber expensive Arc'teryx uses them. If there were better fabrics for what they design their products for they would definitely use them. You can't possibly get fabric which is completely wind proof, water proof and air permeable. It's a balance of which you want.
I'm wondering if you've had any feed back from manufacturers re the Gore tests and in particular the Gore Active which is being promoted as hyper breathable...
It is hyper breathable ... they do not lie, just open the zip ... ;)
What is the name of the black down jack with blocks the onr on your body
Does NeoShell breathes better than gore when DRW is weared off? Or do the both act the same in such a case?
Marmot minimalist jacket???
what's your opinion
Great information as always. Could you do a video on goretex paclite? What is the difference in that material, if any? Is that still considered to be a hardshell? Thanks!
It has been a few years since we have had a product that uses Gore-Tex PacLite in the store, so I am doing this from memory. It is 2 layer, meaning the "plastic" feeling membrane is the lining. It is lightweight, compressible, and inexpensive but as I recall that lack of air permeability and having that plastic membrane up against your skin made it pretty miserable to wear in high exertion activities. I just checked my gear closet, and I used to have a pair of rain pants that were made with PacLite because I am not as concerned about air permeability in rain pants. I "upgraded" my rain pants, and so no longer have those to test. PacLite is probably okay for an inexpensive rain jacket to toss in your golf bag, but in my opinion there are much better solutions for wind and water resistant shells. If I come across something that uses PacLite I will definitely test it so that have a video record of it. Thanks!
Check the Gore-Tex website.
@@brynmrsh thanks for this genius comment. But it looks like prolite already answered it 6 YEARS ago. 😂
Awesome video .But is there much difference between different face materials bonded with the same membrane (in terms of air permeability).
Yes - absolutely - the face fabric the membrane is bonded to can make a big difference. I actually had a fabric developer in the store yesterday and he was trying different face and liner fabrics with an insulation he is developing to see what allowed for good air permeability yet also supported an adequate hydrostatic head. It was very interesting to talk with him, and I hope to get him on video in the future.
If both Gore-Tex have no AP why do we still consider them as "breathable" do they still have moisture vapor transmission?
You say goretex isn't breathable, but it still transfers sweat through the fabric very well
This is 5 years late, but I still haven't found a shell that breathes very well. Going to try OR's ascentshell next.
A lot of misinformation coming from this video still, no jackets on the market use GoreTex Pro Shell anymore, about 4 months after this video Goretex came out with their new material GoreTex Pro. Prolite Gear made a video comparing the two and the new Pro performs EXTREMELY better in air permeability, just search on their UA-cam channel "New GoreTex Pro" and the video should come up! Long story short, Craig says the new Pro is roughly on par with neoshell in the air-permeability, while the Neoshell is just slightly more air-permeable.
Great video!!.... BUT! Isn’t Gore-Tex based on diffusion? , which means that due to the difference in pressure on both sides of the membrane the water molecule, not the air, is forced thru the Gore-Tex fabric. In this case you wouldn’t see the “steam” coming thru the membrane because you had water on the outer side of it (water molecules are released into water). Please correct me if I’m wrong!!
And what would happen if the moisture gradient is 100% outside? Would no condensation for in the jacket?
vapor pressure? So, it takes 212 degrees F boiling water for Gore-Tex to function as described? bahaha
Face it, Gore-Tex was an absolute LIE and FAILURE from the get go; which used large advertising budgets to bamboozle ignorant Consumers.
This test isn't even a breathability test! It's a windproof test. This shows how windproof Gore-Tex jackets are compared to the competitors
Chris Indermuehle
Forgive me for laughing when someone thinks a fabric like Gore-Tex is waterproof and breathable.
So what would be the best material for an under shirt in a hot temperature?
Do you have an opinion on North Face's HyVent?
Real eye opener -- thanks so much for the comparison vid.
If Gore Tex is completely impermeable to air then why are they always advertised as "breathable?" Kind of a scam.....
These are all wordings which can be twisted by advertising campaigns as well as shops who may be incentivized to promote other brands...
I wonder what would be a good jacket for cycling? I live in the netherlands and commute everyday by bike for 13 km back and forth and this 40 minutes of cycling tends to get sweaty. In the winter it doesn't get much colder then -5 degrees C, but it's often wet and rainy. When it's dry I can get by wearing an old cotton army coat (a nato jacket) which is breathable and windproof enough with a good fleece midlayer underneath. However in the authum I have to resort to a standard nylon rain jacket which is really uncomfortable as it gets sweaty. I wonder how air permable it is (plain, regular nylon in particlair) and how it compares to softshell jackets. As a side note, I'll always wear a backpack, so the back especially gets wet, even in the winter. It has to be really cold not to get sweaty. Cycling is a very active use case which I think would be an ultimate test for products like activeshell. Have you tried any of these jackets under such circomstances and what is your experience with them under highly active use cases?
+dykodesigns2yt if you end up wet after your cycling, than your jacket is not perfoming as "breathable", meaning, moisture is not getting away fast enough or at all, so it stays under coat. That leads to fast heat loss and under windy conditions you risk to get ill.
You should get a soft shell, even a cheap one, which soldiers use, is better than simple rain jacket. They have opening under arms, which lets you ventilate armpits and back. The modern soft shells perform much better of course. As they said on video, you have to experiment yourself, which jacket works better for you, but I like the test they did here. It is easy to conclude that you should go for eVent or NeoShell jacket if you do sports in wet or slightly cold weather.
+dykodesigns2yt Hi I cycle alot and found out Softshells are best. Im using a cheap Softshell from Decathlon www.decathlon.de/bergsteiger-softshell-alpinism-herren-id_8331052.html?origin=pla&gclid=CjwKEAiAtf6zBRDS0oCLrL37gFUSJACr2JYbp5w6GqxsOAA4diu209Yvd3eNhertpSjNEP9AC3kCIBoCrarw_wcB
what about testing Dermizax ?
Columbia claims that Omni-Dry is the most air permeable waterproof fabric in the market, what do you think?
What people fail to understand is that all these "breatheable" fabrics are made for walking around town, in and out of the rain and, most def, NOT with a pack on your back. THEN, maybe, they will do as they say...l.maybe.
Anyway you could do this similar test with the Polartec Power Shield Pro vs. NeoShell, etc ...? I'm a big fan of Power Shield Pro, but unfortunately it's hard to find these days. I heard a rumor that Patagonia discontinued the Knifeblade series because the Power Shield Pro fabric is just too expensive. Besides for Patagonia, I only know of Montane using the fabric. I think Outdoor Research dabbled with it, but no "solid" Power Shield Pro jackets or pants to my knowledge. I wish more manufacturers considered Power Shield Pro. You hit the nail on the head, Craig - with the advancement of the softshell fabrics, hardshells my become obsolete one of these days!
I would also love to see a video on Dry.Q Elite as well. I'm not sure if you guys carry Mountain Hardwear, but from what I've read online, Dry.Q Elite gets great reviews and so does their Thermal.Q Elite line. A review on both of them would be much appreciated !! I'd love to see how Thermal.Q Elite compares to PrimLoft One, especially with Mountain Hardwear's claim that Dry.Q Elite is supposedly 30% warmer than anything currently on the market. Since we're talking synthetic insulation, any real-world knowledge with The North Face's Thermoball insulation??
You guys have the best reviews on UA-cam, hands down! Thank you so much for taking the time to do that for us!
What soft shells do you recommend?
Great video, but you say your pro shell jacket is over 2 years old, but Pro shell was re-designed last year and is much more breathable. I use mine in the Florida keys and don't have issues getting too hot, and chose it over eVent or DryQ Elite jackets for its durability. Also, can you test DryQ Elite. I want to see if it is exactly like eVent or slightly different
Wow, you wear Gore-Tex Pro in Florida...? That's kinda overkill. I don't think these guys will compare / test Dry.Q Elite because that's Mountain Hardwear's proprietary technology and they're not a MH dealer. But you're right, it'd be interesting to see how it'd compare to eVent and other fabrics.
I believe Dry.Q is eVENT that is "tweaked" a bit, or at least that is what I was told, that Mountain Hardwear worked with GE on it to make it a bit more air permeable and stretchy, but I will try to get some to test in the future so that I can have first hand experience with it vs. speculating. As always, thanks for the suggestion.
Gambit166
It would be overkill on land, but I don't feel like it is at sea, which is when I generally use it, especially if a storm comes in, or waves are high, because then I'm getting consistently more wet than one would even in a downpour on land. I haven't seen many jackets for marine use that use anything but Pro Shell or Active Shell, maybe because eVent or NeoShell wouldnt hold up as well in that kind of inundation? I'd probably rather take NeoShell or eVent backpacking in a warm or temperate environment, though. Also, I didn't buy my Beta AR for marine use specifically, more for winter backpacking or climbing, but it's proven its usefulness at sea
Great test for air permeability, i.e. Windproof. Rubbish test for breathability. This test only proves that the gore-tex jackets are more windproof than the eVent and the neo-shell jackets
+Breno Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Presumably air permeability helps a lot with breathability, but also means less wind protection. Breathability of Gore-Tex as I understand it has to do with the difference in vapor pressure inside your jacket v. outside, which pushes water vapor out.
Nathan Rice e
What was the Patagonia softshell in the background?
Knifeblade, replaced by the Kniferidge, replaced by the Galvanized.
@@VB-3 ua-cam.com/video/3mI1dvXtae0/v-deo.html
It's just a shame that the face fabric quality on other manufacturers isn't up to scratch. Time after time, Gore lasts better, and that's because because better brands use it.
Hello guys, i have one problem with my Mammut Meron Gore tex Pro (2013 generation)
So i used this jacket 7 times only, in the beging DWR was fine, water was sliping down, when i was testing the jacket on raining day. So when i was on mountain i notice that DWR is completly gone, evry drop of water or snow flake make a wet spot on jacket and after 10-15 minutes i look completly wte.
So is this normal for brand new jacket i mean jacket that was new but used 7 times???
Koliko se secam citao sam vec negde o tome u vezi mammut-a bas modeli iz 2013. gde se dogadjala ista stvar. Pod predpostavkom da je jakna original resenje ti je da kupis "grangers wash and repel 2 u 1" ima ga u iglusport. Odlicna stvar, inace mozes da peres jaknu u tome a sluzi i kao impregnacija za sve tipove gtx-a, klasican dwr. Posto zahteva susenje u masini za susenje vesa a u slucaju da nemas koristi peglu. Stavi neki peskir na jaknu pa preko toga peglaj na najblazoj temperaturi. Ja tako tretiram moje jakne (active shell) i funkcionise bolje nego kad su bile nove.
Fast forward to 2021, and eVent and Neoshell have almost completely vanished, in addition to softshells becoming less prevalent in the lineup of many of the major outerwear manufacturers. More manufacturers have moved to their own proprietary membrane techs, probably to avoid licensing costs. But the consumers and manufacturers have all seemed to say "Gore-Pro is breathable enough" and left the debate behind.
how do you figure that eVent has vanished? one of the most popular motorcycle outdoor brands, mosko moto, uses eVent. i have both event jacket and pants, bought in the past year and past month, and they outperform all my goretex pro stuff. eVent seems live and kicking. also, the popular sea to summit compression sacks all use eVent
@@damytzeus walk into outdoor retailer and see what your eVent options are. It’s basically non-existent. 6 years ago almost every outdoor brand had eVent as an option. No longer. They’ve all doubled down on Gore-Tex, or using an in-house membrane like Patagonia did with H2NO. eVent has one foot in the grave.
@@VB-3 you're probably right. apparently, goretex plays dirty.
@@damytzeus hell yes they do. There’s long been rumors Gore-Tex threatened some outerwear makers over their use of other waterproof membranes. Everyone falls in line because Gore-Tex is the market leader. It’s a shame because this really stifles innovation and adoption.
Would have been better if you tested both with settled water. Not one helped with pressured water.
I'm interested to see how Gore-Tex C Knit stacks up. It looks similar to Polartec, but it's hard to see through the hype. Please do an updated video including C Knit!
Additionally, some sort of comparison of the best Polartec/eVent/C Knit jackets would be excellent
I'm still undecided. Goretex themselves said this test proves that their membrane is windproof, not that it's not breathable. Steam can still pass through. What's your opinion on this? Are they lying, or this test should be reconsidered?
Thanks for the info. I agree that the best (only REAL) test is to try them during strenuous activity.
IMHO Gore Tex is living off its reputation established 30 (or more?) years ago.
STP
Yes, I agree. I have 10/10K jacket with side zips and a gore-tex Lafuma without side zips. In dry conditions I have exercised in both, and while the gore-tex is 50% more breathable appx than the 10k jacket, once the side-zips have been opened the difference became 10% only. The gore-tex jacket is a thin 3 pocket jacket for an extra 30% price. The 10K has 5 pockets and side zips and is a 3 in one design. Not inferior at all.
You look like Chuck Norris 😀
That should be Rab obviously...
None of these fabrics keep you dry in heavy rain
This is the only test that shows the GoreTex have zero breathability
Heh, snort, there's no way wine is better than Pepsi!
this is stupid-science... the compressor creates about 0,3 bar of pressure (which equals 3 meter of water column) inside your jacket there will never be this pressure because of the open ends (arms, bottom, hood) TRY IT: put your mouth on the neoshell and try to blow throu the material... no chance
While your permeability test shows that the fabrics do or do not allow air at an unspecified pressure, it would be really nice if you explain scientifically that no membrane/fabric combination is a one way valve, and if air goes through from inside, it also will penetrate from the outside. Don't just say that it's up to the viewer to determine whether the tests are valid. Also, your comment about a five day river trip with rain every night not being a really, really wet environment seems a little odd. Only conditions being wetter than that, aside from scuba diving perhaps, is crab fishing, which Gore-Tex makes some pretty spectacular dry suits for...
This review basically told me that none of these are worth purchasing. I guess I'm going to be buying a Patagucci outfit as soon as I make more money.
Dude stop buying so much gear, my gear shed is getting super jealous