Yes, tests on c-change, and Dri-Q would be very welcomed. I know in previous posts you believe they are the same thing, but Mountian Hardware seems to imply that they have made changes. It is more elastic than regular event, but that may just be a product of the face fabric; however, I am not aware of a ePTFE membrane that can stretch, but maybe that is what the old windstopper did?
its still a very misleading video, i feel like its mis informing people. i have used both and have to say goretex is by far the better product when out on the trail
While air permeable fabrics appear to be the future of waterproof breathable tech, I'd say this test has some problems. First, you are pumping, or attempting to pump, air through the fabrics and implying this suggests more breath-ability. Where is this air pressure coming from inside the jacket when you are climbing/running/hiking? Is there some kind of pump blasting sweaty, humid air off your body and into the jacket? Of course not. So how relevant is this test in the real world? A point that you mention here that matters, I believe, is that neoshell allows SOME air flow into the jacket from the outside. This will help venting significantly I think. Like you say, the best way to test these fabrics is to run up a hill in them and see what works. Just some things to consider!
I think the pump was there only to simulate breath-ability on a more significant scale? Otherwise we probably wouldn't be able to see or notice air passing through the water which happens on a micro level? The fabrics did their job of letting air out but not water in? Deciding layers and different fabrics to use can make a big difference. I look at some of the questions below and people don't want to face the facts of there's no single perfect article of clothing that will be perfect at all times. Every layer of clothing has it's downfalls. It's up to you to choose what's best for you and your activities.
Larry Morgan: I know this is an old thread, but here goes. Fabric doesn’t function like a 2-way mirror. By them pushing air molecules through the fabric, you’re able to see the fabric’s ability to block powerful gusts hitting you from the outside. It really doesn’t matter which side of the fabric faces the internal chamber of the pressure vessel. Even if this clip couldn’t substantiate any moisture transport claims, I’m glad they displayed a device of which I was unaware.
NeoShell and eVent are both amazing! I'm extremely happy with my Westcomb jackets. I'd also be interested to see a breathability test with Schoeller c_change. I have the Triple Aught Design Stealth Hoodie and Stealth Hoodie LT, both made with c_change (the only difference between the two is that the regular Stealth Hoodie is lightly fleece lined).
I'm confused about something. My GoreTex repair agent said that in order for GoreTex to be breathable, the DWR treatment is important, to prevent the outer fabric from wetting out, which "seals" it with water. However, a friend said he participated in a demo: he dunked his hand in water, getting it wet, then put on a thin GoreTex glove, and immersed his hand in the water for a few minutes. When he took his hand out and removed the glove, his hand was dry. If what the repair agent said were true, the glove should NOT have been able to "breathe" under water! Can you explain?
I have a guess. So, as you saw in this video, breathability was simulated by an increase in pressure, right? The higher pressure air inside the jar was pushed through the membrane. However, in the water dunk test with the Gore-Tex glove, at least from the version I saw on UA-cam, they use ice-cold water. Because the water is cold, yet your hand inside the glove generates body heat, this would probably create a pressure differential. Thus, the heat from your hand would increase the pressure inside the glove enough to push the water vapour through the membrane and outside into the water. DISCLAIMER: This is purely an educated guess based on my own knowledge of how physics works, and how waterproof breathable membranes work, so do not take my word as gospel. Please continue to do your own research.
can you please do a bubble test like shown in this video on some of the Columbia jackets? Thanks !!! They have a new jacket material they call " EVAP" thats on their more expensive models.
in order to properly test the true function of the fabric shouldn't you be testing "breathe-ability" with a more humid air to simulate real life conditions?
It can be argued that the warm cup of water test is better, but see my latest video on this where I discuss this vary topic more: ua-cam.com/video/6TmzwZgEVmA/v-deo.html
This is by far the best video on fabrics ever
where i can buy that equipment?
Yes, tests on c-change, and Dri-Q would be very welcomed. I know in previous posts you believe they are the same thing, but Mountian Hardware seems to imply that they have made changes. It is more elastic than regular event, but that may just be a product of the face fabric; however, I am not aware of a ePTFE membrane that can stretch, but maybe that is what the old windstopper did?
Hi Guys well done for a great explanation without all the marketing hype!
its main selling point is its WINDPROOF, waterproof and breathable . This is a wind test not a Breathability test
its still a very misleading video, i feel like its mis informing people. i have used both and have to say goretex is by far the better product when out on the trail
While air permeable fabrics appear to be the future of waterproof breathable tech, I'd say this test has some problems. First, you are pumping, or attempting to pump, air through the fabrics and implying this suggests more breath-ability. Where is this air pressure coming from inside the jacket when you are climbing/running/hiking? Is there some kind of pump blasting sweaty, humid air off your body and into the jacket? Of course not. So how relevant is this test in the real world? A point that you mention here that matters, I believe, is that neoshell allows SOME air flow into the jacket from the outside. This will help venting significantly I think. Like you say, the best way to test these fabrics is to run up a hill in them and see what works. Just some things to consider!
I think the pump was there only to simulate breath-ability on a more significant scale? Otherwise we probably wouldn't be able to see or notice air passing through the water which happens on a micro level? The fabrics did their job of letting air out but not water in? Deciding layers and different fabrics to use can make a big difference. I look at some of the questions below and people don't want to face the facts of there's no single perfect article of clothing that will be perfect at all times. Every layer of clothing has it's downfalls. It's up to you to choose what's best for you and your activities.
Larry Morgan: I know this is an old thread, but here goes. Fabric doesn’t function like a 2-way mirror. By them pushing air molecules through the fabric, you’re able to see the fabric’s ability to block powerful gusts hitting you from the outside. It really doesn’t matter which side of the fabric faces the internal chamber of the pressure vessel. Even if this clip couldn’t substantiate any moisture transport claims, I’m glad they displayed a device of which I was unaware.
NeoShell and eVent are both amazing! I'm extremely happy with my Westcomb jackets. I'd also be interested to see a breathability test with Schoeller c_change. I have the Triple Aught Design Stealth Hoodie and Stealth Hoodie LT, both made with c_change (the only difference between the two is that the regular Stealth Hoodie is lightly fleece lined).
Can you make a video about eVent vs Mountain Hardware's Dry q Evap please
Finally someone's explain it! Thx guys.
Hi can anyone please tell me where can i get that testing Equipment?
thanks!
THe flash on flash off thing. surely the retained moisture from the gore-tex would leave you being colder than if it had permeated through the shell?
I'm confused about something. My GoreTex repair agent said that in order for GoreTex to be breathable, the DWR treatment is important, to prevent the outer fabric from wetting out, which "seals" it with water. However, a friend said he participated in a demo: he dunked his hand in water, getting it wet, then put on a thin GoreTex glove, and immersed his hand in the water for a few minutes. When he took his hand out and removed the glove, his hand was dry. If what the repair agent said were true, the glove should NOT have been able to "breathe" under water! Can you explain?
I have a guess. So, as you saw in this video, breathability was simulated by an increase in pressure, right? The higher pressure air inside the jar was pushed through the membrane.
However, in the water dunk test with the Gore-Tex glove, at least from the version I saw on UA-cam, they use ice-cold water. Because the water is cold, yet your hand inside the glove generates body heat, this would probably create a pressure differential. Thus, the heat from your hand would increase the pressure inside the glove enough to push the water vapour through the membrane and outside into the water.
DISCLAIMER: This is purely an educated guess based on my own knowledge of how physics works, and how waterproof breathable membranes work, so do not take my word as gospel. Please continue to do your own research.
This is great stuff. Thanks
can you please do a bubble test like shown in this video on some of the Columbia jackets? Thanks !!! They have a new jacket material they call " EVAP" thats on their more expensive models.
Good video, very well explained.
Could you tell me which one is more air permeable and which one is cooler? The Windstopper or the eVent? Thanks~
very good info and video !!
what is the name for the last windstopper jacket?
Thanks for that test
Hi, I believe it was Mammut Ultimate hoody.
Very cool/informative video :)
in order to properly test the true function of the fabric shouldn't you be testing "breathe-ability" with a more humid air to simulate real life conditions?
It can be argued that the warm cup of water test is better, but see my latest video on this where I discuss this vary topic more: ua-cam.com/video/6TmzwZgEVmA/v-deo.html
great!!!
It's WINRPROOF TEST not the BREATHABILITY TEST....FALSE!