I loved the first build and couldn't wait for this ebike sequel! I do, however, have some constructive criticism on the battery construction, and i do mean constructive. I'm not here to bash. You said yourself you had never done this before, so I'd like to give you some advice as a seasoned battery builder. I did my own ebike conversion with a mid drive Bafang (id recommend mid drive for more torque, which you need with weight and hills) and built my own battery as well. I've built about 7kwhr of batteries for my off grid solar power system, as well as commissions for some friends. Battery safety is paramount when working with lithium. It can be very dangerous if you don't take proper precautions/safety measures. We need to ensure the DIY battery community maintains a good reputation by focusing on safety. Battery fires are a terrible thing for individuals and the DIY community as a whole. First, your retaining mechanism of hot glue. A lot of professionally made battery packs are indeed glued together, but they use a much higher strength glue (trust me, I've disassembled many lol) and at least some sort of cell holder. A physical spacer is important to keep the cells away from each other. If they are touching and somehow rub together (maybe the hot glue fails) enough to wear through the plastic wrapper, they can short out on each other. No bueno. We use abs plastic cell holders. Search eBay or amazon for 18650 cell holder. They are relatively cheap, and add a lot of structural integrity to a pack. Second, lets talk about your soldering. The smaller soldering like the BMS leads looks fine, but your larger solder joints (like on the main positive and negative wires) looks. Well. Not great. Unfortunately solder joints arent like welds, you cant fix them with a grinder and paint. Now here's what i don't like about them: it looks like they are cold solder joints. This is where the solder kind of just sits on top of a surface instead of really adhering. You can see this very plainly at 14:00 and 15:35 with the positive wire. The solder is kindof just sitting on top of the wire. What you want is for it to really soak into the strands. The way you want it to adhere to the nickel is for the solder to wet the surface of the nickel. (You want to look like its spread out like a puddle. if it looks like beads of water sitting on glass, its not right). The way you achieve this is with heat and more solder. LOTS of heat in this case. Unfortunately, with the large 10awg wire you are (correctly) using, there is a lot of copper mass there that sucks the heat away. The small strand size also doesn't help, it will soak up more solder than a wire with thicker strands before its ready. You may even need a more powerful soldering iron (I know i do). The reason this is an issue is cold solder joints are easily broken, and this is a bike. You're going over bumps. If a chunk of solder breaks off, it could go jumping around in the case, and possibly short something out. I recommend spot welding some more nickel strips to the positive and negative cells, and wrapping them around the wire before soldering. It helps. Third, lets talk about the output terminal. XT-90s are great, I use them too. However, you want the other plug on the battery side (the one with the little green block or whatever. Its a precharge resistor). The reason is that the conductor pins in the connector on the battery the way you have it aren't physically separated. You can imagine what would happen if a piece of metal got stuck in there and shorted them out. You could start a fire if your BMS fails (ill talk about the bms in a bit). The other side of the connector though has plastic separating the two conductors. That connector should be used for the battery side, its much safer that way. Fourth, the case. Its a great idea to use a waterproof case! Water and batteries don't mix! However, what happens if you have a cell fail, and the over pressure relief valve under the positive terminal vents? Well, now you have pressure building up in a sealed container. No Bueno. I recommend vents in the case. Vents may also be important for thermal regulation. Fifth, and lastly, I want to talk about the BMS. Its a very important piece of safety equipment, as I'm sure you found out doing your research for this build. I'm very glad you have one! However, the one you have is a bit anemic. I wouldn't trust that bms with 10A, let alone the 50A it claims to be rated for. The only good thing about those BMS's is they're cheap. A BMS is a LAST RESORT safety device. If the BMS is the last thing protecting your pack, that means a lot of other stuff already had to go wrong, and youre in a tough spot anyway. As such, you don't want a cheap/flimsy BMS to fall back on. You also want a BMS with proper temperature monitoring (yours appears to just have a high temperature switch). A BMS with proper temperature monitoring will have a low temperature cutoff as well (its usually a single NTC thermistor for both high and low). You don't want to charge if the cells are below freezing. Since you have the space, i recommend a larger (still 50A) smart bms from JBD or Daly. I use Daly, but would recommend JBD over them, I've been wanting to switch. These smart BMS's have proper temperature monitoring, better reliability, and convenient Bluetooth monitoring apps. In the apps, you can see individual series voltages, temperature, state of charge (you set capacity in Ah, and it counts Ah in and out), and any fault codes if it shuts down for some reason. I hope you read this, and take what I've said under consideration. My goal here is not to demean you, but rather to help. I've made plenty of mistakes with my batteries (i saw a lot of those same mistakes in your video), and I just want to help others avoid those mistakes. We can all learn from each other and build better things!
Well you saved me from having to write out all these points, so thank you :P. I would just add, I am a little concerned about heat buildup in that briefcase... Not sure if that foam is fire resistant, but depending on power usage and charging rates you could see a fairly large amount of heat building up which is detrimental to the battery lifespan and again is a fire risk. There is a reason why most large battery packs are ventilated properly or even have active cooling. A fully sealed container isn't a great idea...
Thanks for all this valuable information, I'm planning on building my first ebike battery pack soon and this will help. I have one question that you might be able to answer: do you think he is loosing a bit of efficiency and range by having the battery all the way to the back of the trailer instead of closer to the controller (on the frame or on a rear rack)? Or is the power vs wire gauge ratio enough that it won't make a noticeable difference? Thanks
@@MrRaptor2x In a word, no. Given the operating voltage is 48v and the wattage of the motor at peak is 1000w, you are only drawing around 21 amps. I'm guessing the wire is around 4 meters long, the resistance and voltage drop would be pretty negligible. A wire gauge calculator suggests using wire around 12AWG (3.31mm2). Now its really hard to say what the gauge was he used but it looks pretty decent as 12awg isn't all that thick. That said, its better to go slightly bigger than too small. The other factor is operating temperature... Given the wires are in the open/air cooled and you are unlikely to be using the full 1000w constantly, you could possibly get away with wire quite a bit smaller. Again though, bigger is better. It also depends on the type of wire (Aluminium vs copper etc). If i was building a project similar to this, i would be very tempted to mount the powered wheel on the trailer and just have the control wire attached to the bike. The problem with having the electric motor on the bike while the battery is mounted on the trailer is that bike is pretty much useless without the trailer. The added weight of the electric motor and control box would make riding the bike without assistance pretty terrible for any sort of distance. Whereas if the motor and controller was in the trailer the bike would be usable by itself, and if you added a tow point on other bikes the trailer could be used by friends etc on their bikes.
@@errolfeistl1705 the bigger problems with putting the power wheel on the cart have to do with handling i imagine. You want a symmetrical distribution of force, right? If you move the power wheel to the rear, you no longer have that. If you were to have force pushing on let's say the right wheel, it will want to turn left, and will put strain on the hitch, and stress on the driver to try to correct it. You'd really want two power wheels, one on each side. But then you have to deal with the challenges that come along with two power wheels, like separate controllers and one input. Another problem is that moving the power to the wheels on the trailer is that you're now essentially trying to push a rope. The hitch has flex in it by design, so you can turn and stuff, right? If you try to push through that hitch, you have an unstable system (like trying to push a rope, or balance a pencil vertically on your finger). It's a good thought, but I feel like the execution would be more trouble than it's worth. I think a better solution would be keep the power wheel on the bike, and build a second, smaller battery that mounts to the bike for when it's detached from the trailer. You'd only plug one in at a time, of course. Or, maybe a rear cargo rack on the bike that the original battery can mount to. Re: the question @frenchcat asked, I agree with you Errol. I believe I remember him saying he used 10awg, but I might be mistaken as it was quite late lol. But yeah, 10 or 12 awg is fine for this. There will be /some/ power loss due to voltage drop, but I don't think it would significantly impact range.
i was a part of a solar car team in college & we used that same battery set up … but with over 5,000 of them. cool to see that design being used again. great build
Awesome project! I would like to suggest a few things concerning safety, don't run the balance wires on the battery pack directly on top of the razor sharp tin strips, a bit of pressure from the weight of the battery pack combined with viberations could easily cause a short. Use fish paper (is intended for this application) and high temp capton tape to protect and secure everything, I try to have at least 2 barriers between all live parts, just the heatshrink/wrapper is not durable and will not last when one cell goes bad with high internal resistance causing the cell to get hot while charging and discharging. I also like to add fish paper donuts around the battery button top before welding, since the wrapper is the only thing seperating + and - there. Also wear safety glasses when constructing a pack like this, mistakes can happen, a pack like this is easily able to send molten metal flying in your face. I'm sorry for being one of those complaining safety guys but these packs have so much energy stored in them, it's no joke. If you cause a short and it reaches thermal runaway, it will completely go up in flames and you will not be able to extinguish it in any way.
@@DrewBuildsStuff DIYperks made a similar powerbank, which had some additional safety features: ua-cam.com/video/adY-S8AH_Jc/v-deo.html I'm no electrician, but the extra layers around the batteries looked sensible.
you should figure out a way to incorporate those safety cut-off switches when you're using the brakes the last thing you want is the motors to come on when you don't want them to such as on a steep grade when you're trying to use the brakes to stop at the bottom but you have to pedal to shift down to a lower gear. I'm assuming it's got a pedal assist sensor which is what that switch probably turns off there are definitely times when you don't want the pedal assist to kick in such as when you're doing maintenance on the wheels or drivetrain and your hands are down there. at the very least you should have a manual switch on the handlebars. you can always manually disconnect from the battery for maintenance when you're stopped, but it's difficult to do that in an emergency while on the bike, such as that situation where you're in a descent and you're trying to stop but the motors are still "assisting" I say that never having used those motors before for all I know they have an automatic cut off if there's no resistance at all (which they should, like in the situation where you lift the rear wheel up off the ground and the wheel rotates a little bit which turns the pedals, or if you're on a descent and you're going faster than the wheels are capable of assisting) something else to consider in this situation is regenerative braking. I'm not sure if the hub motors you bought support it. but I know that EUCs are basically a hub motor with a controller that is designed to maintain balance. one of the issues that they have is that when they're fully charged if you try to brake you can overcharge the battery with the regenerative braking causing it to completely cut out which is a really bad situation since they rely on the motor being on to keep you balanced. I just recently I watched the video about trailer stability, which showed the effects using models on a treadmill and by placing weight in various places on the model. you want to make sure the weight is as balanced across all of the axles as possible. too much weight at the back of the trailer means that the hitch wants to lift up which takes weight off of your rear wheel which means you don't get as good traction on the drive wheel causing an instability. too much weight to the front of the trailer means that your front wheel will lift giving you less stability in a climb and for steering which is what causes the speed wobbles. but the same thing can happen without a trailer too if you have too much weight over the back wheel then the front end will lift on a climb and you have to compensate by moving your body weight as much over the front wheel as you can.
I'd say you're more of a constructive comment safety guy compared to most of the 'you should've done xyz'. 👍 For being supportive. The balance leads chafing risk and the fish paper tip were worthwhile comments.
I like the idea a lot! As an electrician it was very uncomfortable to watch the battery assembly part, I really suggest separating the cells with air/kapton tape, especially the terminals before you start using the iron (you mentioned that, but did not cover them later either). The nickel strip you used looks quite thin, usually we sandwich some copper between the cell and the nickel so the connections wont get hot as fast. Also, heat shrinking the balance cables to the bare terminals/nickel strips is super dangerous, they are sharp and can cause short super easily. Many errors I witnessed here, sorry to be the one to warn you. I really think this battery is dangerous, please fix these, there is too much chance for this to catch fire, especially dangerous that you are sleeping next to it.
Agree. The worst bit is the lack of an insulating gasket ring under the nickel strip on the positive connections. The only thing stopping a short is the very thin bit of cell insulation around the top edge. This could easily wear away with vibration or shrink back with heat. By glueing the battery together, the only thing stopping it falling apart is the thin cell insulation (barring the shrink wrap). This is inadequate, especially for a battery that with experience harsh vibrations. Plus any damage to this cell insulation risks the shorting issue described above. Lithium batteries provide their own source of heat, oxygen and fuel. They are extremely difficult to extinguish should they catch fire. This pack needs to be remade with cell holders and the proper insulation.
Watching the battery construction really stressed me out man. Crazy cool that you built this project yourself, but if you had ever seen a metal fire, specifically lithium batteries, I think you would have built that more safely. Of all the suggestions other people made, battery spacers would be my biggest suggestion. A better BMS would be a close second. Thermal problems creates a positive feedback loop with lithium. That pack could totally be made safe with a few changes. But yeah, awesome video and video making skills. The rest of the project seems awesome.
What are you trippin about. They're 6.1A cells with 17 in parallel so a max of 100A and his BMS is 30A and his controller is 50A so even if he has some bursts that his BMS doesn't trip (usually 3 seconds) the absolute max he can pull is HALF of the cells capabilities. Cells run at half their rated discharge rate usually don't heat more than 15 degrees beyond ambient. Even at 5A these cells run continuously will only hit 45C in open air so I think its fair to say that 3A continuous (which is impossible for him to pull, the max he could do continuous is 2A) would maybe get to 45C
@@ericklein5097 15:36 - cold solder joining that wire, almost 'tacked' like a tack weld, which doesn't translate well to solder, which needs to flow hot. Electrically and spec wise it might be fine-ish, each to their own, but it does seem bit of a hazard. Makes for an interesting YT video, but I'd personally just carry a few purpose-built battery packs.
@@MattExzy I'll definitely agree with that part, thats part of the build where a 150W-200W iron is absolutely necessary. I recently bought one and holy shit has it made everything so much easier when it comes to flowing solder on big heat conductors. Saves me so much time. Took me like 30 minutes to solder terminals to an HP DPS power supply and with the big iron it took me about 3 minutes for both
Drew you have all it takes to have a great life, thanks for sharing your passion, as we can see you are all-around talented. This kind of video inspires anyone to go at it and "DEW IT" ! I just completed a 704 KM trip in 52 hours pulling my Raleigh trailer rated for 100 lbs. Montreal to Kingston up to Ottawa and back to Montreal. This was an amazing journey 100s ok K in the trails across Ontario, the wild life was worth all of my while. Using a CYC X1 Stealth Mid-Drive motor on a converted Trek 29" MTB and to power it up I carried my load of power a mix of everything 1x72v20aH 1x72v15aH 2x52v20aH 1x48v10aH (around 5100wH) yes heavy. Plus camping gear. The week prior I did Montreal to Lévis crossed to Quebec and back to Montreal 615 KM in 39 hours. Now I know how to and where to get my recharge/break time so I can use more power and do a faster ride. It's funny when I passe other cyclist, some of them react in a way that they need to repass you and get in front so I just give it a FULL JOLT passe em again and let them know it is no use getting in front of me. After this ride I need to pull the break pads out and put some new ones. Mabe i'll cross you on a journey. I would love to make amazing videos like yours, I'm learning slowly and have my channel practicing video editing of my stuff. ( I'm a novice) and work like yours gives me ideas on how to get better at it.
This is absolutely INSANE! I just finished electrifying my bike, but this video has inspired me to go out and possibly make some more modifications or additions! I think the idea of an electric camper bike is just so fun and unique.
Hell yeah it is I'm building one step by step just like this one except I might go like a foot longer... Kudos on the battery too that is the hardest part I know they sell 72 volt batteries triangle shaped for about 600 bucks not nearly as powerful as this one that 48 volts it's the amp hours that matter
You should add a built-in vibrator at the corner if you wanna jack off and possibly bust a fat nut while the e-bike is running. I've felt this kind of vibe while running away from authorities because of public masturbation and some other crimes. What a vibe :D
If you love your bike, put a piece of inner tube between your trailer mount and your stay, and on the other side put rubber washers between the steel washers and the stay. Aluminium work hardens with flexion, then it becomes brittle, then it cracks, in that order. The bar you welded is better than a single bolt hole, but not a lot better since it doesn't allow for spin-out pitch rotation, which the original did allow (unwanted, but when happens it spares your bike frame - mitigated failure mode.) You've spread the force over an area that the aluminium can support (KSI), but it isn't steel, so shocks work cumulatively towards failure. The tube/rubber washers will eliminate a portion of the shock.
I like how this adressed what was the main problem of most people with the first video. I think the only things you could improve are better left for a rebuild at some point.
I’m impressed by the number of tools and the audacity/bravery you have in wiring up the battery yourself. Lithium batteries are tricky and can be dangerous. Hopefully you don’t run into issues with that battery.
This, this is literally what I've been looking for... A bike trailer camper that went about 50 miles a day electric... I would make it charge on solar.. add 2-3 longer term camping amenities... But this is what I been looking for
What a great build, thanks for your detailed video! Just fyi, the flexible solar panel you used will degrade much faster being glued directly onto the surface of your roof. I have seen them bubble up and severely delaminate when surface mounted. To avoid this, a light and simple frame that gives it about 1-2 inches of airspace below will allow adequate venting of heat, preventing damage to the cells/laminates. Thanks again, great work!
@@markrainford1219 I believe the worry here is heat regulation not mechanical wear. Rather, the question is whether the roof is sufficiently cool. A space would allow airflow, and possibly insulate the solar panel-roof connection. Weather that would help ain't in my knowledge. Cheers
The last time i researched flexible panels, all had short lifespans. No expert vouches for them. Most advised to avoid them because of high failure rates. All DID stress the need for air space. Most use wood dowels.
IF ANYONE IS WONDERING what a fair and proper shout out for using someones tutorial is exactly how drew shouted out the battery tutorial, That years of experience you got instantly and for free dam right you shout them out and leave a link to OG video well done Drew YOUR A GENTLEMAN and ive noticed its a thing we see less and less of, and thats a shame YT is a place were we are supposed to help each other succeed
7:40 : The capacity of a cell is measured by discharging. The actual capacity of the cells will be considerably different to what you measured when charging them. And if you even want to get an even more real-life-value, you should discharge the cell with the same load (Ampere) as it would face in your specific case. Cheers!
@thememewindows6240bit of a daft thing to say, the video poster even mentions in this video how he used information from another users channel to help with this, not everyone is completely narcissistic and self obsessed.
You could charge your big battery directly using existing solar panel by only adding solar charge controller, this way you don't have to carry a additional portable power bank. Also this all should be more efficient
yeah I'm not sure why he didn't just rig it to use the one pack... why carry a whole separate battery pack and charge it separately? also why mount the battery pack at the back of the trailer furthest away from the motors which requires a longer cable at more loss. you also have the whole underside of the trailer to attach it to. in fact if you built the battery pack to be flat instead of a brick you can fill the space between the trailer frame with battery and then the weight distribution would be better. also in terms of weight distribution it would help the overall stability of the bike to have slightly more weight over the front wheel to help keep it down on steep climbs, although that kind of depends on how heavy the hub motors are compared to the trailer. for that matter you could put hub motors on the trailer as well although to do that you might have to double the battery pack.
@@better.better Pretty sure the box came as a kit with the solar panel, also it converts everything to AC and USB power for him which he would have needed a box for inside the camper regardless.
@@swecreations He also mentioned he can charge the lithium battery pack through the portable battery though it’s not very efficient. Carrying a separate portable backup battery w/ solar makes sense for a travel camper providing a variety of charging and power outlets for other devices. For long range use seems like he’ll need to carry some extension cords and adapter.
@@better.better He said he wanted to use the bigger battery for possible other projects. So thats why he mounted it to the back and put it in that case so he can move it from project to project. If it was permanently to the trailer then he couldve easily mounted it to the frame under.
I’m NOT mechanically inclined at all, so when people create these things, it amazes me. My dad was the chief mechanical engineer for Hanford Nuclear Power Plant in Richland, Washington. My degree is in Psychology.
Definitely a couple minor things I would change. I would absolutely change it up to not have to carry that power bank. Maybe an MPPT would be able to make use of that 12V solar pannel, but if not you could make a small 12V lipo cell, and use a 12-48 boost converter to charge the 48V battery. Set that up to let the 12V charge all the way then discharge into the 48, you could have near unlimited range, and you could get a 48V inverter for your 110V needs. The other change I'd do is mount the battery on the bottom. Unless you plan on some serious rough terrain it won't ever hit anything and also won't bake your bats in a black box in the sun.
OK, I had no idea what the hell you were talking about most of the time, but your explanations were flawless, your camera work good, your build outstanding, and overall I was fully enthralled and entertained for a solid half hour. Thank you very much !
From Denmark: Thx for sharing. Congratulations for your skills and a very aesthetic/professional end result. I am 80 years old and ride an ICE SPRINT FS Trike with a ZIFLEX monowheel Trailer attached to it with NO EL Assist. I have with me everything I need for comfortable tent-Hammock camping. Last summer I rod from Ebeltoft (Jutland-Denmark) to Frederikshavn-Ferry to Gothenburg (Sweden)-Triking to Stockholm.Ferry to Turku (Finland)-Triking to Helsinki-Ferry back to Stockholm-Triking to Nynaeshamn (East Coast of Sweden)-Ferry to Visby (Gotland Island Sweden)-Ferry to Oskarshamn (East Coast of Sweden)-Triking to Ystad (South of Sweden)-Ferry to Bornholm Island, Denmark)-Ferry to Koege (East Coast of DK)-Triking-a couple of Ferries to Aeroe Island (South DK--Close to Germany) and then back to Ebeltoft-Denmak... Well, I am thinking to convert my Trike to EL-ASSIST. Your Video is very helpful.
I would recommend a simple suspension on the trailer. Maybe some large spring, something to absorb the vibrations. This will reduce the stress on the trailer and the batteries.
good idea, was trying to keep the weight down to see how it would handle first so didn't want to get too carried away. Light weight camper build coming up next!
You might to revisit using the brake levers. They often trigger regen braking first. Since your rig is pretty heavy there is a lot of energy to recover potentially. Also, your band sounds great.
Soooo awesome. If I remember correctly, I think I commented to make this electric on the original video. I'm even more inspired to make something like this. I'm very curious to see how the solar panels work. I love how if it ever starts raining on your ride, you can just park and hop in the back! My only recommendation would be to swap that hub motor out for a mid-drive system motor. That way you can use the ratio of your gears with the motor.
There's trade offs either way. The downside of the mid drive is the additional stresses it puts on the chain and additional wear and tear of the drive system. One advantage of the hub motor is redundancy. If you snap a chain it doesn't matter, you still have the motor to drive the bike. Honestly his bike is probably better off with a hub due to the additional weight being hauled. I wonder if he should add brakes to the trailer. It's asking a lot of two wheels to stop, especially on a downhill road.
@@jtalbainWSA if he were in a more hilly area, I would recommend he add a switch to plug into the cables that go to the breaks, if the controller supports regenerative breaking it can act as a retardation break before actually having to use the disk breaks.
Watched the entire thing and was surprised by the subscriber count. Could’ve sworn this channel was above the millions already, confident he’s going to reach it by the end of the year.
I loved the way you built your camper-bike. You have the knowledge to build what you wanted and the tools to complete it. Lovely to watch all you did. 👍👏👏
My idea to improve on this further is, to make trays that fit in the frame of the trailer to hold the batteries underneath. Could be deep trays to have them vertical or shallow and lay them on their sides in rows and then you could do multiple battery packs that are about 2× the size you made already. Also can keep them removable.
Loving this series, keep it up! Maybe version 3 could have a stained interior, a locking door, curtains, carpet, and a swamp cooler now that you have electricity! Also yeah a vent at the top would be good for circulation
Cool build dude!! I particularly liked the way the big red truck cowered away when it saw you coming ;-) As an electronic design engineer, I would make a few observations which might help others planning their own build. 1) You need a bigger soldering iron - the one you have isn't delivering enough heat to fully melt the solder on those bigger joints, which could very easily result in a dry joint and potential point-of-failure. I'd suggest one of the big hefty Weller gun-style irons. If a finished solder joint isn't a shiny dome, it needs redone. 2) You should never drill into the case without first removing the battery. Your sockets were offset from the battery, so the risk of a mishap was minimal, but another builder could get this wrong and drill into a battery, which would ruin their day. 3) Placing the battery at the front of your caravan would markedly reduce the high-current cable run length. This would cut cable losses and likely increase your range. Cables from the solar cell can be longer as the currents involved are much lower. A nice project..
Personally I thought mounting it at the rear was a pretty good safety decision. I'd rather have the trailer between my back and the battery pack if that thing ever went into thermal runaway.
Jeez… that was riveting! I loved everything about your video - science and engineering combined with escapism, self sufficiency, sprinkled with great times and music!! Living vicariously through you! (Of course I don’t know crap about the issues and technicalities)
Very cool project, I love it. Just a quick safety tip, you soldered what is conventionally incorrect for the battery end of that XT90 connector. The side of the XT90 you used has 2 live contact male parts that can accidentally be shorted by any conductive material small enough to get in there. It's not absolutely required to swap it, but it's the conventional way of doing it.
That's right. A small tip for avoiding the accident is to use a dummy female plug without any wires attached to it to cover the plug. So when it is not attached to the trailer we can just plug the dummy connector to cover the exposed end. Hope it's useful.
This is awesome, I can just imagine what it means to pull this unassisted! It looks much better now being balanced. You said it yourself, covering up the battery when doing the main terminals would have been safer. I would also out a breaker in - if one of the plugs cause a short it might overload the over current protection of the BMS. But all in all, I am absolutely jealous and would love to call something like this my own
Great vid! Only thing I would change is adding a mid drive motor instead of a hub motor. If you tow any weight in the trailer or if you encounter some hills on your journeys that hub motor will probably burn out from producing too high torque at low rpms. The mid drive motor will run the power through the gears thus spinning faster when you shift down
That's going to load the drive chain and sprockets a lot meaning much faster wear and increased likelihood of breaking a chain. Also the weight of the motor on the rear tyre is going to give you more traction.
I’d be nervous about trashing the drive train with the mid drive motor. I was talking to a friend of mine lately about broken chains with mid drive setups. Basically they go full power out of every stop, which is a lot more force than a normal set of legs can do and it is wearing out chains much faster. Add a trailer and it’s asking for trouble.
@@matt6740 Thanks for confirming what I expected. I have heard from a lot of MId Drive fans extolling this design who completely ignore the downsides of this set up. The only way to avoid this is to go with a thicker chain and hub gears, or a belt drive. In any case wheel spin is going to be a problem unless you have nose weight from the trailer.
@@matt6740 I have a mid drive motor actually! I have broken a few chains but it's pretty rare and mostly bc I'm doing something stupid like trying to do a burnout lol. KMC actually makes a dedicated ebike chain to handle the torques better, lasted me about 2 years. Cassette you'll have to change out every six months to a year, but to me it's worth it. A friend who tours with his hub drive had it burn out in the middle of a tour cause he was going on a miles long hill, I have had my motor for 4 years and it has no signs of stopping
@@bimble7240 you really want more evenly distributed weight for handling imo. You already have quite enough weight over the rear wheel as that's where most of your weight goes
The next two obvious upgrades that i can see: Making an awning over the front door, which would give you shade and cover during sun and rain. Adding another solar panel on a flexible extention in front of the trailer. That way when you're parking you can fold it out and get more charging done
he could fit like 3 times more solar panels on that roof and the flexible extension could be over the bike so when it rains it can cover him lol, I know you would have problems with drag and winds,
Awesome build. You might want to consider moving your battery to the front of the trailer. DC voltage drops quickly over distance. Shorter distance should give you more power and range.
@@TookMe5Tries indeed. if you would compare it to water flow, amperage would be how wide the stream is while voltage would be how steep the incline is if longer distances would make the incline go flatter. however this being 48v and 10 gauge wires, i doubt the droppage would be anything that matters over this distance.
Great build, yeah you could of done things differently, but all in all sturdy and good range for fantastic price in the set up. The 2 battery system is genius. The hub drive is a good choice too, with the mid drive its more efficient but you have the chain wear to worry about so its a bit of a trade off. Sleeping up off of the ground is very comfortable when camping. You could always throw a tent in it for space. The only drawback is the wieght of the thing, but it won't be thrown around in a bit of wind either and once in motion you're just using energy against wind resistance. So plenty of trade offs. Top notch. 5 out of 5. Superb! You'll be happy when you get caught in a squall, and your nice and dry in your shelter.
freaking awesome, thank you for your time and effort to make the trailer and to film the video! I would love to see you try to building a small self sustained trailer/camper that can be towed with a car/suv/truck and to have more features: like AC, Heater, water supply, Cooking and sleeping accommodation for 2+ people
This is quite simply amazing; I would love to see V3.0 where you have implemented some sort of regenerative braking system and upgraded the system to dual motor? How about adding a pair of motor hubs to the trailer, add the batteries underneath the chassis of the trailer to increase stability, you would probably need to double up the hitch to the other side to prevent jack knifing but hey I'm just throwing ideas around here - Look forward to the next build.
You might want to consider a closeable vent, and maybe a high-efficiency fan. Any air circulation at all is going to make it nicer on hot days. Edit: Well, you have the windows, so I guess you already have a vent. Still, a fan would probably help.
That’s a perfect close range camping vehicle! You could probably go out past 100km if you stayed somewhere long enough for the solar generator to charge the bike battery. Adding another panel to system to use while stopped would be even better.
@@DrewBuildsStuff it'd definitely be worth looking for some used grid tie solar panels, much higher capacity, you could then use the flexible ones to do the sides/curves etc to get extra power, or stack 2 or 3, so one works when you're riding and if you stop you can lay 2 more out on the ground for a fast charge in the midday sun
Whoa! The battery construction is basically a total foreign language for me. I think I need to keep touring with my tent. But you go Drew! About the trailer hitch... can that rear triangle opposing chain stay really handle the torque of sudden stops and expected momentum shifts over time. What the!!! you're a rock star too.. and a festival founder Jeeez!! Mr. MIT over here!!
Awesome work~ Very impressive ~ Love the music, especially during the battery build. The sci-fi vibe fits perfectly ~ This channel will continue to grow with quality content like this. Keep it up!
very cool! great to see such a large battery :) im very envious. Just a suggestion use the female side of the xt-90 connector as the output from battery not the male side, its abit harder to accidentally short-circuit. Not that it would matter too much with such a large battery it'd probably just vaporize any metal that tries to short it haha.
Yup, agree 100%. Batteries and power sources should always be female. Chargers always male. This makes interoperability much easier when you want to mix and match. Make some M-M and F-F gender changers and keep them handy - very easy to do with XT60s and XT90s.
Excellent work and great result for your first battery - really great build. You really want to over-rate the BMS by at least 50% but I would go 2x - so 100A. It would be good to add the capability to charge the 48V battery from the solar panel as well for longer trips. To do that you need a fairly inexpensive solar charge controller. You could also get a 1000W 48V inverter and get rid of the small battery altogether. I know the all-in-one solution is easy but it is Drew Builds Stuff :)
You need MPPT and BMS that would prevent micro charging cycles to do that. These power stations are better equipped for a BFU using solar. Modern phosphate stations dont even cost that much.
on the solar front there's definitely room on the back of that trailer for a used Grid Tie panel, you're talking 250-350 watts depending what you want to spend, they can be had over here for £65 for a 250 watt, much better value than the flexible "100watt" that does about 60w
@@mckidney1 The battery already has a BMS? And nearly all modern charge controllers are MPPT. You can still buy PWM but it still won’t cause “micro charge cycles” - the BMS will just turn off when the battery is full. Perhaps I’m just not understanding what you meant?
do you have any concerns about overheating for the battery? theyre all glued very tightly together and the case has no airflow. Amazing project and all so well built, thank you!
Hey there! Cool project!! I also noticed you're making a 18650 battery pack and I thought I'd share a few tips for your next project. Firstly, using cell spacers is a good idea. They help with heat dissipation, which is important because batteries can get hot when they're in use. The spacers also provide a physical barrier between the cells, reducing the risk of short circuits. Secondly, you might want to consider using nickel fuse strips. These are a safety feature that can prevent serious damage if a cell fails. Each cell is fused individually, so if one cell has a problem, the fuse will blow for that cell and the rest of the pack will continue to work safely. Lastly, a battery balancer is a smart addition. It ensures that all cells in the pack are charged equally, which can extend the life of your battery pack. It also helps to prevent overcharging, which can be dangerous. Remember, safety first! Hope these tips help for your next build.
He did a lot of sketchy ass shit with the battery pack. I really wouldn't want that thing next to my head while I was sleeping lol. Great idea tho, he just needs the stuff you mentioned, and maybe a lesson in lithium ion safety lol.
Good day to you! I am a grandpa rider on HONDA motorcycle from Japan. Enjoying camping ,touring and upload video. Your bike camper video is so nice! Awesome! Have a nice day my friend!
Just a thought, but powered wheels on the trailer and containing all the electronics in the trailer would seem optimal. You can then detatch your bike and use it as a bit, with just few switches and connectors adding weight.
Huge respect, this is super innovative! in terms of efficiency, have you considered flipping the wagon, so the rear would become the front? it could make your setup significantly more aerodynamic, and save you a lot of energy as well
Congratulations, you sure have a lot of talent in many different areas. Hope all your hard work and planning, allows for many miles with your Newly battery powered bike and trailer.
Very nice build! As a retired master electrician I build power packs with inverters from 400w to 5000w. My latest project was a diy solar powered outdoor sauna.
Nice build. I have 3 concerns: 1) What is your charging current? I don't think that barrel jack can cope with it in the long run. 2) Those tightly packed, wrapped in foam, shrink wrapped batteries in an air tight case may over heat. 3) Although you used silicone sealant for the volt meter, I don't think the unit itself is water proof in any degree, it can get damaged by rain, also can cause water to go in the case.
Lions typically have a charge to discharge efficiency of 5%. If you assume the discharge contributes 2,5% then you're still heating an isolated box with 25W, and that's without the wiring and stuff. It's definitely a concern that it might get to hot that way. Although if the BMS has temperature protection features it might still be okay, even if not ideal.
@@TheShowdown16 yeah, i know. I couldn't resist. You make a valid point about temps. Do you think, that with the box being black, that using it on a hot sunny day could cause problematic temps. Or would it be negligible.
great video and gives an incredible insight into what is achievable with some good old ingenuity. Your trailer concept would be interesting if it was adapted to being towed with a small petrol powered scooter or small motorbike . Obviously it would need to be more robust with some form of springs to take some of the jolting out of the suspension but the concept of a small form factor trailer camper that can be towed with a motorbike or scooter seems a viable method of seeing the countryside at a minimal cost.
This is fantastic! Consider yourself +1 subscriber sir! The only observations/suggestions, would be to hook your rear lights up to the external battery as well, so you don't have to worry about those going out, and upgrading your brake setup. I'd imagine with the weight if you're going downhill, that thing has some momentum. Perhaps some bigger callipers and discs as well as considering upgrading to hydraulic brakes (and potentially larger/gripier tires). If you could fit brakes on the tralier as well, all the better.
Sturmey Archer made trike wheel hubs with internal drum brakes that would be perfect for a trailer build like this. the X-SD model comes to mind. I know that if I was lugging a 60kg+ trailer up or down a hill I'd certainly want that trailer to have an independent braking system...
1. Make an aluminum frame. 2. Reduce the frame, it's too big. Enough T-frame. 3. The body of your camper is quite rigid, you can generally get by with a frame for wheels and connections with a bicycle.
Another tech here, with some improvement ideas. Mainly with the panel. Sun direction is a huge factor, yet your panel is fixed position. Mount the panel in a lightweight frame. Angled down as is when the Sun is that way. Up flat when the Sun is overhead. Maybe even angled forward just a bit when Sun is ahead, but of course that will add more air resistance, so not too much. 45 degrees side tilt to either side would also be easy. You could easily double or triple the power you can get while riding vs the fixed panel if the Sun just doesn't happen to be from that specific direction of the slope of the back of the camper. And you won't have to orient the camper only to the Sun while you're camping to get good charging.
I would suggest building a smaller battery bank which sits on the bike, maybe between the supporting beams or on the carriage as an emergency measure. If your main battery runs out, you can just take the bike out of the camper, go to a nearby gas station or hotel and have the main battery bank charged. One more thing that you can do is to find a way to charge that battery pack real quick. I mean like an hour or two.
This is fantastic. Love the build, and really nicely filmed/edited. The comments here are also really informative and will be invaluable for others keen to explore their own DIY projects. I would love to know the weight of both the trailer and bike separately? Be useful just for calculating loads on the e-bike motor kit and the potential range calculations etc. Keep up the great work! 🤙
Yes there are a lot of people in the comments that have far more knowledge on batteries than I do. I haven’t actually got it weighed since I added all the upgrades. I’ll try to get you some numbers this weekend!
@@DrewBuildsStuff thanks for documenting your hard work on this. One more potential update is adding a torque arm to the motor. If you push 1,000 Watts through it for a while those washers might eventually bend out or crack your drop outs. With your skills you could build your own torque arms very cheaply and ensure that never happens.
Your first build and this one are very good. Thanks. I was wondering, did you consider powering the trailer instead of the bike? The trailer would have more room / weight capacity for batteries/motors/controllers/regen braking..., plus the batteries would be there for use at night for lights/phones/.... Also, the trailer tongue could be made to activate the motors (to varying degrees) when pulled on, so the rider would only feel like they were on the bike with no trailer. Look forward to the next build.
This was my immediate thought too, especially when the cells were hot glued together with no spacing. And then they're in a foam insulated plastic case.
Hey, battery builder here. I really wish micha from ebikeschool would take his video down or update it as there's a MASSIVE safety issue with it. Basically the case of every cell is negative. Meaning the only thing stopping your battery from shorting out is the super thin PVC shrink wrap around each cell. These wraps are super easy to damage through vibrations and will result in a fire. Since the fault would be before the BMS it won't protect you against this fault. Fishpaper, thin plastic, whatever you want to use, but something abrasion resistant needs to go between each P group. Same with balance wires, they shouldn't cross over other P groups without protection. Tho it could be argued the thin wire will act as a fuse in itself, it's not a great argument given that causes a wire to catch on fire. Also, that meter needs to be told what voltage your battery is to be accurate. That's why it always says 100%. Check the manual it came with, usually it's hold function on power up and change a value through long and short presses.
Yeah best to use cell holders to increase battery (rigidity, cooling and safety)a nd there wasn't paper ring at positive terminals to decrease chance of positive and negative touching. Also it is good to check your nickel in salt water to see if it is pure nickel because it has much lower resistance than nickel plated steel. Also soldering discharge wires directly to cells is still damaging them (also might cause short at positive side) so it is best to solder wire beforehand to nickel and weld it to cells.
Great build! Here's a tip: Solar panels can get pretty warm while taking in/converting sunlight and especially the flexi style panels, since they are designed to curve slightly, and as such, have no frame, resulting in the consumer resorting to (usually) flush mounting the panel directly to a flat surface and while this might seem like a neat design for aesthetics, flush mounted panels have a greater tendency to burn out in heavy continual use dueo the lack of air flow between the panel and the surface its mounted to, sdecreasing both the output and lifespan of the panel. Consider mounting the panel with enough space for cooler air to flow underneath the panel and if 2 panels or more are mounted, consider adding a pair of 12v computer fans, added with the necessary elec. modifications to step the voltage down so burning the fans won't be an issue, and you can force air to flow and cool down the panels which will preserve their lifespan and productivity...
On that note, in a different application of solar panels on a household rooftop, would it be a good idea to combine the photovoltaic with thermal abortion (water in pipes) to both cool the panels and maximise the energy capture per a given area? I've been thinking on it for a while. Essentially, would the solar panels need to be specially made for this application and would the photovoltaic block the thermal from working with any appreciable effect, or could the two types of panel just be stacked on top of each other? Maybe if there are liquid cooled photovoltaic solar panels that could be the whole thing in one package with the coolant being plumbed to dump heat into a hot water tank instead of out a radiator.
Ideas for part 3 - Phone mount on the handle bars with charging. - Add 1-2 more solar panels for more off grid possibilities like mini AC or Portable Monitor with a built in battery. - Spare tire to replace a flat tire on the go and maybe electric air pump.
Very interesting, but now I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to build a single unit containing a fully faired recumbent tricycle or quadricycle that could double as a camper. The fairing would double as the camper shell, the seat that you need anyway could just fold down and maybe be extended to provide a sleeping platform. The only downside would be that you wouldn't get the open air and view you'd have without a fairing - so ideally the fairing would be retractable somehow. With electric assist it could provide a whole new way of long distance touring.
Perhaps since he already has the trailer he could just make a quadcycle useing two e-bikes useing the extra space for either more batteries for more range and/or bigger motor(s) for more speed thats what I would do if i had the space, tools, materials, and knowledge.
I like this idea, although I hate recumbents because their visibility is so bad on busy roadways since they're so low to the ground and hard to see from my truck.
@@Inmate533 - visibility to drivers is a problem, certainly, but a bicycle flag will go a long way towards resolving that. When it comes to touring, though, there's nothing that beats a recumbent. I've ridden for hours on a recumbent without so much as stopping and been comfortable the whole time. The other downsides of recumbents - chiefly dealing with hills and difficulty for the rider to see what's behind them without losing their balance - would be dealt with by the electric assist and having four wheels, respectively.
@@alanlight7740 Good points all, plus having a tow-behind trailer makes the recumbent more visible as well. This gives me a lot to think about now in building my own towing ebike. I never considered a recumbent as a solution that I'd enjoy riding. Thank you!
@@Inmate533 - I should say, a two-wheeled recumbent can be a bit difficult learning how to balance. Once you've got it it's okay, provided you can maintain some forward motion - but even experienced cyclists in good health might need several hours practicing in a parking lot before they want to hit the road.
DUDE - this is awesome. Question: did you use the solar panel at all to recharge the battery on your weekend trip? Or have you used it for that purpose since? I was wondering what charging performance you are getting out of that one panel.
It's only hooked up to the power bank inside. It will recharge it in about 4 hours in direct sun. After that I can charge from the bank to the battery but it will drain the bank in a couple hours, and would take 5-6 times to fully charge the bike battery.
@@DrewBuildsStuff Could you connect your bike charger to the power bank while the power bank is being charged by the solar panel? Obviously the solar panel won't be able to keep up with the draw of the charger but that would at least give you a chunk of charging whenever you're stopped somewhere or the like, and keeping the battery topped off would be more convenient than having to charge all at once.
The day I drove it for a couple hours, it was 31 degrees Celsius and I checked the battery temp half way. You can see this in the video at one point. It wasn't gaining too much heat at that point but yes it could potentially be an issue in the future.
A little sheet metal shield on a hinge that goes over the battery pack would probably work to keep the sun off. It'd also help keep the rain out when it's parked outdoors - I know he caulked everything but water always finds a way. Man, wish this stuff existed when I was young. I'd have had a blast with it.
hey, i built a solar car from scratch as my senior design project last year(2022). and i gotta say you have done a great job building this. one sugesttion is that you have a foldable solar panel as well to speed up the caharging speed when you take a break.
Love your build and your youtube movie....all very inspiring ! Most of the outer wheel supports out there are rectangular constructions. An angled front bar however could work as well as a deflective wheel protector...and looks better ! Looking forward to your improvements.
Should be fine. Also, there are some BMS that have temp. checks. But with 13 cells in parallel the discharge will never be too hot. Especially if you see the bike can run 100+ KM, which means the draw is not that high.
as long as the bms remains attached and functional and he doesnt over clock the motor there shouldn't be any issues. given where the battery is its not likely that it will get damaged in an accident unless someone rear ends him. in witch case i would definitely take it apart and make sure everything is still solidly connected
Just watched the video again, he has only one Klixon thermal switch to "monitor" temperature and it kindof just sits on top! That's pretty much asking for trouble. The temperature sensor should be buried deep within the battery bank and not simply sitting on top. And then the solar cells are simply connected into the pack with no charge monitoring circuit. You have the right idea but the implementation is not too good and can spell doom for $1K worth of batteries. Edit - it is possible the charge monitoring can be built into the battery monitor by switching the low side but no enough info. Normally there is a temperature sensor included in charging circuit but I do not see that with this one, I can only see the klixon thermal switch which activates when things are already hot and turning to sh!t. Still, this should be in the middle of the bank and buried so that it is near the center of a middle battery.
you might want to check those 100AH Lipo or lifepo4 cells, then you don't have to spot weld them all together and you can drastically simplify your build and the failure rate over time is certainly smaller
LiFePO4 cells have a lower energy density than the chemistries used in the 18650 cells (NMC, NCA, LCO etc). So for the same amount of energy, he'd have to carry more LFP cells, thus more weight. But LFP is the safest of the lithium chemistries (with the exception of Lithium Titanate Oxide or LTO)
@@missingMBR that is a tradeoff, very true, the benefit is that you get about double the cycle life out of them, provided they are well balanced and used at around 0.2~0.5C charge/discharge rate major advantage is the construction simplicity, and the chance of failure is much lower if your cell count is much lower.
Yeah, hot glue doesn't seem like the best decision. Since it's hot glue it can easily melt in hot weather which would not be good. It is a nice and functional DIY option that won't intimidate people though.
I'm glad my battery building series helped you with the battery pack! You created something amazing here!
Awesome, I wish I had the skills to do this
@@shable1436 Dont wish, just learn how and do it.
@@JackNmD I wish I knew how to learn
@@JackNmDwish i had the money to even start
@@shable1436 you do have the skills you just showed you every step of the way just do it I am!
I loved the first build and couldn't wait for this ebike sequel!
I do, however, have some constructive criticism on the battery construction, and i do mean constructive. I'm not here to bash.
You said yourself you had never done this before, so I'd like to give you some advice as a seasoned battery builder. I did my own ebike conversion with a mid drive Bafang (id recommend mid drive for more torque, which you need with weight and hills) and built my own battery as well. I've built about 7kwhr of batteries for my off grid solar power system, as well as commissions for some friends.
Battery safety is paramount when working with lithium. It can be very dangerous if you don't take proper precautions/safety measures. We need to ensure the DIY battery community maintains a good reputation by focusing on safety. Battery fires are a terrible thing for individuals and the DIY community as a whole.
First, your retaining mechanism of hot glue. A lot of professionally made battery packs are indeed glued together, but they use a much higher strength glue (trust me, I've disassembled many lol) and at least some sort of cell holder. A physical spacer is important to keep the cells away from each other. If they are touching and somehow rub together (maybe the hot glue fails) enough to wear through the plastic wrapper, they can short out on each other. No bueno. We use abs plastic cell holders. Search eBay or amazon for 18650 cell holder. They are relatively cheap, and add a lot of structural integrity to a pack.
Second, lets talk about your soldering. The smaller soldering like the BMS leads looks fine, but your larger solder joints (like on the main positive and negative wires) looks. Well. Not great. Unfortunately solder joints arent like welds, you cant fix them with a grinder and paint.
Now here's what i don't like about them: it looks like they are cold solder joints. This is where the solder kind of just sits on top of a surface instead of really adhering. You can see this very plainly at 14:00 and 15:35 with the positive wire. The solder is kindof just sitting on top of the wire. What you want is for it to really soak into the strands. The way you want it to adhere to the nickel is for the solder to wet the surface of the nickel. (You want to look like its spread out like a puddle. if it looks like beads of water sitting on glass, its not right).
The way you achieve this is with heat and more solder. LOTS of heat in this case. Unfortunately, with the large 10awg wire you are (correctly) using, there is a lot of copper mass there that sucks the heat away. The small strand size also doesn't help, it will soak up more solder than a wire with thicker strands before its ready. You may even need a more powerful soldering iron (I know i do).
The reason this is an issue is cold solder joints are easily broken, and this is a bike. You're going over bumps. If a chunk of solder breaks off, it could go jumping around in the case, and possibly short something out. I recommend spot welding some more nickel strips to the positive and negative cells, and wrapping them around the wire before soldering. It helps.
Third, lets talk about the output terminal. XT-90s are great, I use them too. However, you want the other plug on the battery side (the one with the little green block or whatever. Its a precharge resistor). The reason is that the conductor pins in the connector on the battery the way you have it aren't physically separated. You can imagine what would happen if a piece of metal got stuck in there and shorted them out. You could start a fire if your BMS fails (ill talk about the bms in a bit). The other side of the connector though has plastic separating the two conductors. That connector should be used for the battery side, its much safer that way.
Fourth, the case. Its a great idea to use a waterproof case! Water and batteries don't mix! However, what happens if you have a cell fail, and the over pressure relief valve under the positive terminal vents? Well, now you have pressure building up in a sealed container. No Bueno. I recommend vents in the case. Vents may also be important for thermal regulation.
Fifth, and lastly, I want to talk about the BMS. Its a very important piece of safety equipment, as I'm sure you found out doing your research for this build. I'm very glad you have one! However, the one you have is a bit anemic. I wouldn't trust that bms with 10A, let alone the 50A it claims to be rated for. The only good thing about those BMS's is they're cheap. A BMS is a LAST RESORT safety device. If the BMS is the last thing protecting your pack, that means a lot of other stuff already had to go wrong, and youre in a tough spot anyway. As such, you don't want a cheap/flimsy BMS to fall back on. You also want a BMS with proper temperature monitoring (yours appears to just have a high temperature switch). A BMS with proper temperature monitoring will have a low temperature cutoff as well (its usually a single NTC thermistor for both high and low). You don't want to charge if the cells are below freezing.
Since you have the space, i recommend a larger (still 50A) smart bms from JBD or Daly. I use Daly, but would recommend JBD over them, I've been wanting to switch. These smart BMS's have proper temperature monitoring, better reliability, and convenient Bluetooth monitoring apps. In the apps, you can see individual series voltages, temperature, state of charge (you set capacity in Ah, and it counts Ah in and out), and any fault codes if it shuts down for some reason.
I hope you read this, and take what I've said under consideration. My goal here is not to demean you, but rather to help. I've made plenty of mistakes with my batteries (i saw a lot of those same mistakes in your video), and I just want to help others avoid those mistakes. We can all learn from each other and build better things!
Thank you. I was going to address the same points. Hopefully Drew sees this comment on time.
Well you saved me from having to write out all these points, so thank you :P. I would just add, I am a little concerned about heat buildup in that briefcase... Not sure if that foam is fire resistant, but depending on power usage and charging rates you could see a fairly large amount of heat building up which is detrimental to the battery lifespan and again is a fire risk. There is a reason why most large battery packs are ventilated properly or even have active cooling. A fully sealed container isn't a great idea...
Thanks for all this valuable information, I'm planning on building my first ebike battery pack soon and this will help. I have one question that you might be able to answer: do you think he is loosing a bit of efficiency and range by having the battery all the way to the back of the trailer instead of closer to the controller (on the frame or on a rear rack)? Or is the power vs wire gauge ratio enough that it won't make a noticeable difference? Thanks
@@MrRaptor2x In a word, no. Given the operating voltage is 48v and the wattage of the motor at peak is 1000w, you are only drawing around 21 amps. I'm guessing the wire is around 4 meters long, the resistance and voltage drop would be pretty negligible. A wire gauge calculator suggests using wire around 12AWG (3.31mm2).
Now its really hard to say what the gauge was he used but it looks pretty decent as 12awg isn't all that thick. That said, its better to go slightly bigger than too small. The other factor is operating temperature... Given the wires are in the open/air cooled and you are unlikely to be using the full 1000w constantly, you could possibly get away with wire quite a bit smaller. Again though, bigger is better.
It also depends on the type of wire (Aluminium vs copper etc). If i was building a project similar to this, i would be very tempted to mount the powered wheel on the trailer and just have the control wire attached to the bike. The problem with having the electric motor on the bike while the battery is mounted on the trailer is that bike is pretty much useless without the trailer. The added weight of the electric motor and control box would make riding the bike without assistance pretty terrible for any sort of distance. Whereas if the motor and controller was in the trailer the bike would be usable by itself, and if you added a tow point on other bikes the trailer could be used by friends etc on their bikes.
@@errolfeistl1705 the bigger problems with putting the power wheel on the cart have to do with handling i imagine. You want a symmetrical distribution of force, right? If you move the power wheel to the rear, you no longer have that. If you were to have force pushing on let's say the right wheel, it will want to turn left, and will put strain on the hitch, and stress on the driver to try to correct it. You'd really want two power wheels, one on each side. But then you have to deal with the challenges that come along with two power wheels, like separate controllers and one input.
Another problem is that moving the power to the wheels on the trailer is that you're now essentially trying to push a rope. The hitch has flex in it by design, so you can turn and stuff, right? If you try to push through that hitch, you have an unstable system (like trying to push a rope, or balance a pencil vertically on your finger).
It's a good thought, but I feel like the execution would be more trouble than it's worth. I think a better solution would be keep the power wheel on the bike, and build a second, smaller battery that mounts to the bike for when it's detached from the trailer. You'd only plug one in at a time, of course. Or, maybe a rear cargo rack on the bike that the original battery can mount to.
Re: the question @frenchcat asked, I agree with you Errol. I believe I remember him saying he used 10awg, but I might be mistaken as it was quite late lol. But yeah, 10 or 12 awg is fine for this. There will be /some/ power loss due to voltage drop, but I don't think it would significantly impact range.
Man, you siphoned away all the coolness in the world, by being a master builder, electricity wizard AND a rock star. Keep it up!
i was a part of a solar car team in college & we used that same battery set up … but with over 5,000 of them. cool to see that design being used again. great build
Awesome project! I would like to suggest a few things concerning safety, don't run the balance wires on the battery pack directly on top of the razor sharp tin strips, a bit of pressure from the weight of the battery pack combined with viberations could easily cause a short. Use fish paper (is intended for this application) and high temp capton tape to protect and secure everything, I try to have at least 2 barriers between all live parts, just the heatshrink/wrapper is not durable and will not last when one cell goes bad with high internal resistance causing the cell to get hot while charging and discharging. I also like to add fish paper donuts around the battery button top before welding, since the wrapper is the only thing seperating + and - there. Also wear safety glasses when constructing a pack like this, mistakes can happen, a pack like this is easily able to send molten metal flying in your face. I'm sorry for being one of those complaining safety guys but these packs have so much energy stored in them, it's no joke. If you cause a short and it reaches thermal runaway, it will completely go up in flames and you will not be able to extinguish it in any way.
Thanks for the safety tips, I will take take those into consideration for the next one! Thanks for watching!
you can glue it in place that way it cant rub around
@@DrewBuildsStuff DIYperks made a similar powerbank, which had some additional safety features: ua-cam.com/video/adY-S8AH_Jc/v-deo.html
I'm no electrician, but the extra layers around the batteries looked sensible.
you should figure out a way to incorporate those safety cut-off switches when you're using the brakes the last thing you want is the motors to come on when you don't want them to such as on a steep grade when you're trying to use the brakes to stop at the bottom but you have to pedal to shift down to a lower gear. I'm assuming it's got a pedal assist sensor which is what that switch probably turns off there are definitely times when you don't want the pedal assist to kick in such as when you're doing maintenance on the wheels or drivetrain and your hands are down there. at the very least you should have a manual switch on the handlebars. you can always manually disconnect from the battery for maintenance when you're stopped, but it's difficult to do that in an emergency while on the bike, such as that situation where you're in a descent and you're trying to stop but the motors are still "assisting" I say that never having used those motors before for all I know they have an automatic cut off if there's no resistance at all (which they should, like in the situation where you lift the rear wheel up off the ground and the wheel rotates a little bit which turns the pedals, or if you're on a descent and you're going faster than the wheels are capable of assisting) something else to consider in this situation is regenerative braking. I'm not sure if the hub motors you bought support it. but I know that EUCs are basically a hub motor with a controller that is designed to maintain balance. one of the issues that they have is that when they're fully charged if you try to brake you can overcharge the battery with the regenerative braking causing it to completely cut out which is a really bad situation since they rely on the motor being on to keep you balanced. I just recently I watched the video about trailer stability, which showed the effects using models on a treadmill and by placing weight in various places on the model. you want to make sure the weight is as balanced across all of the axles as possible. too much weight at the back of the trailer means that the hitch wants to lift up which takes weight off of your rear wheel which means you don't get as good traction on the drive wheel causing an instability. too much weight to the front of the trailer means that your front wheel will lift giving you less stability in a climb and for steering which is what causes the speed wobbles. but the same thing can happen without a trailer too if you have too much weight over the back wheel then the front end will lift on a climb and you have to compensate by moving your body weight as much over the front wheel as you can.
I'd say you're more of a constructive comment safety guy compared to most of the 'you should've done xyz'. 👍 For being supportive. The balance leads chafing risk and the fish paper tip were worthwhile comments.
I like the idea a lot! As an electrician it was very uncomfortable to watch the battery assembly part, I really suggest separating the cells with air/kapton tape, especially the terminals before you start using the iron (you mentioned that, but did not cover them later either). The nickel strip you used looks quite thin, usually we sandwich some copper between the cell and the nickel so the connections wont get hot as fast. Also, heat shrinking the balance cables to the bare terminals/nickel strips is super dangerous, they are sharp and can cause short super easily. Many errors I witnessed here, sorry to be the one to warn you.
I really think this battery is dangerous, please fix these, there is too much chance for this to catch fire, especially dangerous that you are sleeping next to it.
What uncomfortable, it was perfect
Agree. The worst bit is the lack of an insulating gasket ring under the nickel strip on the positive connections. The only thing stopping a short is the very thin bit of cell insulation around the top edge. This could easily wear away with vibration or shrink back with heat.
By glueing the battery together, the only thing stopping it falling apart is the thin cell insulation (barring the shrink wrap). This is inadequate, especially for a battery that with experience harsh vibrations. Plus any damage to this cell insulation risks the shorting issue described above.
Lithium batteries provide their own source of heat, oxygen and fuel. They are extremely difficult to extinguish should they catch fire. This pack needs to be remade with cell holders and the proper insulation.
Question is it possible to have a alternating power source in a trailer just incase that it fails or dies
@@jayashreepatil6250 your comment demonstrates your lack of actual understanding of what is going on here.
@@jayashreepatil6250
you dont know what your talking about.
The time and love for these projects are incredible
Thanks for watching 👍
I wouldn’t have the patience
Please protect your eyes! Love the videos tho!
Yes
@@DrewBuildsStuff glad to see you went ebike.
Watching the battery construction really stressed me out man. Crazy cool that you built this project yourself, but if you had ever seen a metal fire, specifically lithium batteries, I think you would have built that more safely.
Of all the suggestions other people made, battery spacers would be my biggest suggestion. A better BMS would be a close second. Thermal problems creates a positive feedback loop with lithium. That pack could totally be made safe with a few changes.
But yeah, awesome video and video making skills. The rest of the project seems awesome.
I know the battery freaked me out. The lack of cooling etc as well. jsut seems like a bomb one day when its charging lol
What are you trippin about. They're 6.1A cells with 17 in parallel so a max of 100A and his BMS is 30A and his controller is 50A so even if he has some bursts that his BMS doesn't trip (usually 3 seconds) the absolute max he can pull is HALF of the cells capabilities. Cells run at half their rated discharge rate usually don't heat more than 15 degrees beyond ambient. Even at 5A these cells run continuously will only hit 45C in open air so I think its fair to say that 3A continuous (which is impossible for him to pull, the max he could do continuous is 2A) would maybe get to 45C
@@ericklein5097 15:36 - cold solder joining that wire, almost 'tacked' like a tack weld, which doesn't translate well to solder, which needs to flow hot. Electrically and spec wise it might be fine-ish, each to their own, but it does seem bit of a hazard. Makes for an interesting YT video, but I'd personally just carry a few purpose-built battery packs.
@@MattExzy I'll definitely agree with that part, thats part of the build where a 150W-200W iron is absolutely necessary. I recently bought one and holy shit has it made everything so much easier when it comes to flowing solder on big heat conductors. Saves me so much time. Took me like 30 minutes to solder terminals to an HP DPS power supply and with the big iron it took me about 3 minutes for both
Woooooooooooow!!!!! You're living my dream life, riding bike, traveling as a campist, and playing good music!!!!! Congrats bro!!!!!
"Campist", there's a "thank you word " lol I like it a lot !!! Excuse me while I plagiarize you.....
The foam in that case may prevent rattling, but you need to keep it cool as well. The black also absorbs uv heat. I love your channel!
I've seen other battery builds that put fans in the case to keep the batteries cooler under load or charging.
Drew you have all it takes to have a great life, thanks for sharing your passion, as we can see you are all-around talented. This kind of video inspires anyone to go at it and "DEW IT" ! I just completed a 704 KM trip in 52 hours pulling my Raleigh trailer rated for 100 lbs. Montreal to Kingston up to Ottawa and back to Montreal. This was an amazing journey 100s ok K in the trails across Ontario, the wild life was worth all of my while. Using a CYC X1 Stealth Mid-Drive motor on a converted Trek 29" MTB and to power it up I carried my load of power a mix of everything 1x72v20aH 1x72v15aH 2x52v20aH 1x48v10aH (around 5100wH) yes heavy. Plus camping gear. The week prior I did Montreal to Lévis crossed to Quebec and back to Montreal 615 KM in 39 hours. Now I know how to and where to get my recharge/break time so I can use more power and do a faster ride. It's funny when I passe other cyclist, some of them react in a way that they need to repass you and get in front so I just give it a FULL JOLT passe em again and let them know it is no use getting in front of me. After this ride I need to pull the break pads out and put some new ones. Mabe i'll cross you on a journey. I would love to make amazing videos like yours, I'm learning slowly and have my channel practicing video editing of my stuff. ( I'm a novice) and work like yours gives me ideas on how to get better at it.
That’s awesome! I’m hoping to get out on a couple trips yet this summer. Not sure I’ll tackle that many kms though! Thanks for watching
I don't know if the battery is safe or not😥 there is no temperature regulation on that thing! It's gonna output 30 Amps which means a lot of heat!
This is absolutely INSANE! I just finished electrifying my bike, but this video has inspired me to go out and possibly make some more modifications or additions! I think the idea of an electric camper bike is just so fun and unique.
Hell yeah it is I'm building one step by step just like this one except I might go like a foot longer... Kudos on the battery too that is the hardest part I know they sell 72 volt batteries triangle shaped for about 600 bucks not nearly as powerful as this one that 48 volts it's the amp hours that matter
You should add a built-in vibrator at the corner if you wanna jack off and possibly bust a fat nut while the e-bike is running. I've felt this kind of vibe while running away from authorities because of public masturbation and some other crimes.
What a vibe :D
If you love your bike, put a piece of inner tube between your trailer mount and your stay, and on the other side put rubber washers between the steel washers and the stay. Aluminium work hardens with flexion, then it becomes brittle, then it cracks, in that order. The bar you welded is better than a single bolt hole, but not a lot better since it doesn't allow for spin-out pitch rotation, which the original did allow (unwanted, but when happens it spares your bike frame - mitigated failure mode.) You've spread the force over an area that the aluminium can support (KSI), but it isn't steel, so shocks work cumulatively towards failure. The tube/rubber washers will eliminate a portion of the shock.
I like how this adressed what was the main problem of most people with the first video.
I think the only things you could improve are better left for a rebuild at some point.
Thanks for watching!
I’m impressed by the number of tools and the audacity/bravery you have in wiring up the battery yourself. Lithium batteries are tricky and can be dangerous. Hopefully you don’t run into issues with that battery.
This, this is literally what I've been looking for... A bike trailer camper that went about 50 miles a day electric...
I would make it charge on solar.. add 2-3 longer term camping amenities... But this is what I been looking for
It went 29 miles or 47 kilometers
@@thespook1482 he said 44km each way…
What a great build, thanks for your detailed video! Just fyi, the flexible solar panel you used will degrade much faster being glued directly onto the surface of your roof. I have seen them bubble up and severely delaminate when surface mounted. To avoid this, a light and simple frame that gives it about 1-2 inches of airspace below will allow adequate venting of heat, preventing damage to the cells/laminates. Thanks again, great work!
Flexible panels are meant to be fixed directly to a flat or curved surface, that's why they're flexible.
@@markrainford1219 I believe the worry here is heat regulation not mechanical wear. Rather, the question is whether the roof is sufficiently cool. A space would allow airflow, and possibly insulate the solar panel-roof connection. Weather that would help ain't in my knowledge.
Cheers
The last time i researched flexible panels, all had short lifespans. No expert vouches for them. Most advised to avoid them because of high failure rates. All DID stress the need for air space. Most use wood dowels.
I can see the difference from last video with the realignment. Absolutely cool to add solar. Excellent job! Thanks for sharing this cool project.
Thanks for watching!
IF ANYONE IS WONDERING what a fair and proper shout out for using someones tutorial is exactly how drew shouted out the battery tutorial, That years of experience you got instantly and for free dam right you shout them out and leave a link to OG video well done Drew YOUR A GENTLEMAN and ive noticed its a thing we see less and less of, and thats a shame YT is a place were we are supposed to help each other succeed
This guy is a well rounded dude. If I ever attempt to make something remotely like this I'll follow this video.
Leave the battery building to a professional.
7:40 : The capacity of a cell is measured by discharging. The actual capacity of the cells will be considerably different to what you measured when charging them. And if you even want to get an even more real-life-value, you should discharge the cell with the same load (Ampere) as it would face in your specific case. Cheers!
@The meme windows You noticed - and maybe other users do, too. So that's fine :-)
@thememewindows6240bit of a daft thing to say, the video poster even mentions in this video how he used information from another users channel to help with this, not everyone is completely narcissistic and self obsessed.
You could charge your big battery directly using existing solar panel by only adding solar charge controller, this way you don't have to carry a additional portable power bank. Also this all should be more efficient
yeah I'm not sure why he didn't just rig it to use the one pack... why carry a whole separate battery pack and charge it separately? also why mount the battery pack at the back of the trailer furthest away from the motors which requires a longer cable at more loss. you also have the whole underside of the trailer to attach it to. in fact if you built the battery pack to be flat instead of a brick you can fill the space between the trailer frame with battery and then the weight distribution would be better. also in terms of weight distribution it would help the overall stability of the bike to have slightly more weight over the front wheel to help keep it down on steep climbs, although that kind of depends on how heavy the hub motors are compared to the trailer. for that matter you could put hub motors on the trailer as well although to do that you might have to double the battery pack.
@@better.better Pretty sure the box came as a kit with the solar panel, also it converts everything to AC and USB power for him which he would have needed a box for inside the camper regardless.
@@swecreations He also mentioned he can charge the lithium battery pack through the portable battery though it’s not very efficient. Carrying a separate portable backup battery w/ solar makes sense for a travel camper providing a variety of charging and power outlets for other devices. For long range use seems like he’ll need to carry some extension cords and adapter.
@@better.better He said he wanted to use the bigger battery for possible other projects. So thats why he mounted it to the back and put it in that case so he can move it from project to project. If it was permanently to the trailer then he couldve easily mounted it to the frame under.
I’m NOT mechanically inclined at all, so when people create these things, it amazes me.
My dad was the chief mechanical engineer for Hanford Nuclear Power Plant in Richland, Washington.
My degree is in Psychology.
Definitely a couple minor things I would change. I would absolutely change it up to not have to carry that power bank. Maybe an MPPT would be able to make use of that 12V solar pannel, but if not you could make a small 12V lipo cell, and use a 12-48 boost converter to charge the 48V battery. Set that up to let the 12V charge all the way then discharge into the 48, you could have near unlimited range, and you could get a 48V inverter for your 110V needs.
The other change I'd do is mount the battery on the bottom. Unless you plan on some serious rough terrain it won't ever hit anything and also won't bake your bats in a black box in the sun.
Literally just watched the original build and now I found this. Awesome
Yeah same here 0.0
OK, I had no idea what the hell you were talking about most of the time, but your explanations were flawless, your camera work good, your build outstanding, and overall I was fully enthralled and entertained for a solid half hour.
Thank you very much !
From Denmark: Thx for sharing. Congratulations for your skills and a very aesthetic/professional end result. I am 80 years old and ride an ICE SPRINT FS Trike with a ZIFLEX monowheel Trailer attached to it with NO EL Assist. I have with me everything I need for comfortable tent-Hammock camping. Last summer I rod from Ebeltoft (Jutland-Denmark) to Frederikshavn-Ferry to Gothenburg (Sweden)-Triking to Stockholm.Ferry to Turku (Finland)-Triking to Helsinki-Ferry back to Stockholm-Triking to Nynaeshamn (East Coast of Sweden)-Ferry to Visby (Gotland Island Sweden)-Ferry to Oskarshamn (East Coast of Sweden)-Triking to Ystad (South of Sweden)-Ferry to Bornholm Island, Denmark)-Ferry to Koege (East Coast of DK)-Triking-a couple of Ferries to Aeroe Island (South DK--Close to Germany) and then back to Ebeltoft-Denmak... Well, I am thinking to convert my Trike to EL-ASSIST. Your Video is very helpful.
I would recommend a simple suspension on the trailer. Maybe some large spring, something to absorb the vibrations. This will reduce the stress on the trailer and the batteries.
good idea, was trying to keep the weight down to see how it would handle first so didn't want to get too carried away. Light weight camper build coming up next!
why do you believe he needs to reduce stress on trailer or batteries?
@@rb-ex or the gf travelling on the back... just saying ;)
@@rb-ex given all the feedback on the custom battery; my thinking reduce the vibration, then less stress on the battery
@@stevehartmann8560 right, you already said that. my question is why do you believe you need to reduce stress on the battery?
You might to revisit using the brake levers.
They often trigger regen braking first. Since your rig is pretty heavy there is a lot of energy to recover potentially.
Also, your band sounds great.
There is a HUGE VESC community ( Modders for OneWheel's ) that can help with the software programming with Regeneration of Energy back into the cells.
@@lostphotographs3936 OneWheel is based on VESC from the factory?
Soooo awesome. If I remember correctly, I think I commented to make this electric on the original video. I'm even more inspired to make something like this. I'm very curious to see how the solar panels work. I love how if it ever starts raining on your ride, you can just park and hop in the back! My only recommendation would be to swap that hub motor out for a mid-drive system motor. That way you can use the ratio of your gears with the motor.
Thanks for watching. Ya I had thought about that but since this was my first ebike I thought I’d try to keep it as simple as I could
There's trade offs either way. The downside of the mid drive is the additional stresses it puts on the chain and additional wear and tear of the drive system. One advantage of the hub motor is redundancy. If you snap a chain it doesn't matter, you still have the motor to drive the bike. Honestly his bike is probably better off with a hub due to the additional weight being hauled.
I wonder if he should add brakes to the trailer. It's asking a lot of two wheels to stop, especially on a downhill road.
@@jtalbainWSA if he were in a more hilly area, I would recommend he add a switch to plug into the cables that go to the breaks, if the controller supports regenerative breaking it can act as a retardation break before actually having to use the disk breaks.
Watched the entire thing and was surprised by the subscriber count. Could’ve sworn this channel was above the millions already, confident he’s going to reach it by the end of the year.
I loved the way you built your camper-bike. You have the knowledge to build what you wanted and the tools to complete it. Lovely to watch all you did. 👍👏👏
Newest bike camper video coming tomorrow afternoon 🙂
@@DrewBuildsStuff will watch thx
This is amazing! Even more awesome than the first video of making this trailer. Well done!
Thanks for watching 👍
22:50 the brake levers are also what are used to tell the controller to use its regenerative braking.
Regen braking isn't as effective with light weight devices, so I wouldn't really mind it myself.
on straight, level roads like we are shown in video there is no braking, but in more hilly terrain there could be a lot of regen going on
The time and love for these projects are incredible. The time and love for these projects are incredible.
My idea to improve on this further is, to make trays that fit in the frame of the trailer to hold the batteries underneath. Could be deep trays to have them vertical or shallow and lay them on their sides in rows and then you could do multiple battery packs that are about 2× the size you made already. Also can keep them removable.
Loving this series, keep it up! Maybe version 3 could have a stained interior, a locking door, curtains, carpet, and a swamp cooler now that you have electricity! Also yeah a vent at the top would be good for circulation
Cool build dude!! I particularly liked the way the big red truck cowered away when it saw you coming ;-) As an electronic design engineer, I would make a few observations which might help others planning their own build. 1) You need a bigger soldering iron - the one you have isn't delivering enough heat to fully melt the solder on those bigger joints, which could very easily result in a dry joint and potential point-of-failure. I'd suggest one of the big hefty Weller gun-style irons. If a finished solder joint isn't a shiny dome, it needs redone. 2) You should never drill into the case without first removing the battery. Your sockets were offset from the battery, so the risk of a mishap was minimal, but another builder could get this wrong and drill into a battery, which would ruin their day. 3) Placing the battery at the front of your caravan would markedly reduce the high-current cable run length. This would cut cable losses and likely increase your range. Cables from the solar cell can be longer as the currents involved are much lower. A nice project..
Personally I thought mounting it at the rear was a pretty good safety decision. I'd rather have the trailer between my back and the battery pack if that thing ever went into thermal runaway.
@@KCM25NJL Fair point, but I think I'd rather have the trailer between the battery and the car that just rear-ended me ;-)
The battery weight as well is in the wrong place anyone that has loaded a trailer knows all the weight should ideally be in front of the axels
@@cheeseontoastbrah That's a good point, having the centre of mass behind the axles can lead to reduced stability
Jeez… that was riveting! I loved everything about your video - science and engineering combined with escapism, self sufficiency, sprinkled with great times and music!!
Living vicariously through you!
(Of course I don’t know crap about the issues and technicalities)
Very cool project, I love it.
Just a quick safety tip, you soldered what is conventionally incorrect for the battery end of that XT90 connector. The side of the XT90 you used has 2 live contact male parts that can accidentally be shorted by any conductive material small enough to get in there. It's not absolutely required to swap it, but it's the conventional way of doing it.
Thanks for the tips, being the first battery build I fully expected some mistakes!
That's right. A small tip for avoiding the accident is to use a dummy female plug without any wires attached to it to cover the plug. So when it is not attached to the trailer we can just plug the dummy connector to cover the exposed end. Hope it's useful.
hey Volvo xc 90 hybedd rrc
This is awesome, I can just imagine what it means to pull this unassisted! It looks much better now being balanced. You said it yourself, covering up the battery when doing the main terminals would have been safer. I would also out a breaker in - if one of the plugs cause a short it might overload the over current protection of the BMS. But all in all, I am absolutely jealous and would love to call something like this my own
Great vid! Only thing I would change is adding a mid drive motor instead of a hub motor. If you tow any weight in the trailer or if you encounter some hills on your journeys that hub motor will probably burn out from producing too high torque at low rpms. The mid drive motor will run the power through the gears thus spinning faster when you shift down
That's going to load the drive chain and sprockets a lot meaning much faster wear and increased likelihood of breaking a chain. Also the weight of the motor on the rear tyre is going to give you more traction.
I’d be nervous about trashing the drive train with the mid drive motor. I was talking to a friend of mine lately about broken chains with mid drive setups. Basically they go full power out of every stop, which is a lot more force than a normal set of legs can do and it is wearing out chains much faster. Add a trailer and it’s asking for trouble.
@@matt6740 Thanks for confirming what I expected. I have heard from a lot of MId Drive fans extolling this design who completely ignore the downsides of this set up. The only way to avoid this is to go with a thicker chain and hub gears, or a belt drive. In any case wheel spin is going to be a problem unless you have nose weight from the trailer.
@@matt6740 I have a mid drive motor actually! I have broken a few chains but it's pretty rare and mostly bc I'm doing something stupid like trying to do a burnout lol. KMC actually makes a dedicated ebike chain to handle the torques better, lasted me about 2 years. Cassette you'll have to change out every six months to a year, but to me it's worth it. A friend who tours with his hub drive had it burn out in the middle of a tour cause he was going on a miles long hill, I have had my motor for 4 years and it has no signs of stopping
@@bimble7240 you really want more evenly distributed weight for handling imo. You already have quite enough weight over the rear wheel as that's where most of your weight goes
This is awesome! This is honestly where the future is! We need less sales and more understanding of proper tech that helps people live healthy!
The next two obvious upgrades that i can see:
Making an awning over the front door, which would give you shade and cover during sun and rain.
Adding another solar panel on a flexible extention in front of the trailer. That way when you're parking you can fold it out and get more charging done
Trash ideas no offence
@@mattwyd2161 care to explain why or are you just going to complain?
@@jesperstoringgaard8367 just prankin ya
he could fit like 3 times more solar panels on that roof and the flexible extension could be over the bike so when it rains it can cover him lol, I know you would have problems with drag and winds,
Awesome build. You might want to consider moving your battery to the front of the trailer. DC voltage drops quickly over distance. Shorter distance should give you more power and range.
If I understand correctly it only drops amperage, so if it's low amps at high volts the drop could be pretty few watts
@@peterhindes56 amperage is the same across the length of wire, voltage drops
It would be very little drop at these distances especially on a 48v system.
@@TookMe5Tries indeed. if you would compare it to water flow, amperage would be how wide the stream is while voltage would be how steep the incline is if longer distances would make the incline go flatter.
however this being 48v and 10 gauge wires, i doubt the droppage would be anything that matters over this distance.
I gotta give you props for putting that much effort and money into that project, something I might do in the future if possible
Great build, yeah you could of done things differently, but all in all sturdy and good range for fantastic price in the set up. The 2 battery system is genius. The hub drive is a good choice too, with the mid drive its more efficient but you have the chain wear to worry about so its a bit of a trade off.
Sleeping up off of the ground is very comfortable when camping. You could always throw a tent in it for space.
The only drawback is the wieght of the thing, but it won't be thrown around in a bit of wind either and once in motion you're just using energy against wind resistance. So plenty of trade offs.
Top notch. 5 out of 5. Superb!
You'll be happy when you get caught in a squall, and your nice and dry in your shelter.
freaking awesome, thank you for your time and effort to make the trailer and to film the video! I would love to see you try to building a small self sustained trailer/camper that can be towed with a car/suv/truck and to have more features: like AC, Heater, water supply, Cooking and sleeping accommodation for 2+ people
This is quite simply amazing; I would love to see V3.0 where you have implemented some sort of regenerative braking system and upgraded the system to dual motor? How about adding a pair of motor hubs to the trailer, add the batteries underneath the chassis of the trailer to increase stability, you would probably need to double up the hitch to the other side to prevent jack knifing but hey I'm just throwing ideas around here - Look forward to the next build.
Might have to wait for a bit. Next one is going to be a light weight version, video coming in sept.
Electric trailer would make any bike electric but I haven't seen one built
@@TheNone724 A design incorporating powered trailer is the ultimate.
I am incredibly impressed. That was a lot of work, but you have ended up with an amazing product.
Awesome! With people like you, the world will only get better. Thanks for sharing a truly inspiring video.
Yes one day we will all be hobos living in a tent, pulled by a bike.
Yeay America can indeed get lazier
You might want to consider a closeable vent, and maybe a high-efficiency fan. Any air circulation at all is going to make it nicer on hot days.
Edit: Well, you have the windows, so I guess you already have a vent. Still, a fan would probably help.
That’s a perfect close range camping vehicle! You could probably go out past 100km if you stayed somewhere long enough for the solar generator to charge the bike battery. Adding another panel to system to use while stopped would be even better.
for sure i think your would need 3-4 days to gain enough battery back. Hopefully its sunny as well haha. Thanks for watching!
Yiu c a nt ext rag exciting regen braking.
@@DrewBuildsStuff it'd definitely be worth looking for some used grid tie solar panels, much higher capacity, you could then use the flexible ones to do the sides/curves etc to get extra power, or stack 2 or 3, so one works when you're riding and if you stop you can lay 2 more out on the ground for a fast charge in the midday sun
Whoa! The battery construction is basically a total foreign language for me. I think I need to keep touring with my tent. But you go Drew! About the trailer hitch... can that rear triangle opposing chain stay really handle the torque of sudden stops and expected momentum shifts over time. What the!!! you're a rock star too.. and a festival founder Jeeez!! Mr. MIT over here!!
another great video! one of the few channels i can sit for 30 minutes and not be bored
Glad to hear it! Really wasn’t sure how the 30 minute build videos would go
Awesome work~ Very impressive ~ Love the music, especially during the battery build. The sci-fi vibe fits perfectly ~ This channel will continue to grow with quality content like this. Keep it up!
Thanks for watching! I have lots of ideas left for videos yet so hopefully you are right 🤞
very cool! great to see such a large battery :) im very envious. Just a suggestion use the female side of the xt-90 connector as the output from battery not the male side, its abit harder to accidentally short-circuit. Not that it would matter too much with such a large battery it'd probably just vaporize any metal that tries to short it haha.
Thanks for the tip! I'll keep that in mind for next time!
Indeed! Plus you can get panel mount xt90 connectors so you can avoid the silicone. It takes 2 screws. Very clean fit
@@shadesinblack1 ooo yeah good point! That panel mount would come up very neatly
Yup, agree 100%. Batteries and power sources should always be female. Chargers always male. This makes interoperability much easier when you want to mix and match.
Make some M-M and F-F gender changers and keep them handy - very easy to do with XT60s and XT90s.
OK OK this is proof life isnt fair how can one guy be so good looking tall and talented
Excellent work and great result for your first battery - really great build. You really want to over-rate the BMS by at least 50% but I would go 2x - so 100A. It would be good to add the capability to charge the 48V battery from the solar panel as well for longer trips. To do that you need a fairly inexpensive solar charge controller. You could also get a 1000W 48V inverter and get rid of the small battery altogether. I know the all-in-one solution is easy but it is Drew Builds Stuff :)
You need MPPT and BMS that would prevent micro charging cycles to do that. These power stations are better equipped for a BFU using solar. Modern phosphate stations dont even cost that much.
on the solar front there's definitely room on the back of that trailer for a used Grid Tie panel, you're talking 250-350 watts depending what you want to spend, they can be had over here for £65 for a 250 watt, much better value than the flexible "100watt" that does about 60w
@@mckidney1 The battery already has a BMS? And nearly all modern charge controllers are MPPT. You can still buy PWM but it still won’t cause “micro charge cycles” - the BMS will just turn off when the battery is full. Perhaps I’m just not understanding what you meant?
do you have any concerns about overheating for the battery? theyre all glued very tightly together and the case has no airflow. Amazing project and all so well built, thank you!
Plot twist: It was built like that so it would bites the dust.
Hey there! Cool project!! I also noticed you're making a 18650 battery pack and I thought I'd share a few tips for your next project.
Firstly, using cell spacers is a good idea. They help with heat dissipation, which is important because batteries can get hot when they're in use. The spacers also provide a physical barrier between the cells, reducing the risk of short circuits.
Secondly, you might want to consider using nickel fuse strips. These are a safety feature that can prevent serious damage if a cell fails. Each cell is fused individually, so if one cell has a problem, the fuse will blow for that cell and the rest of the pack will continue to work safely.
Lastly, a battery balancer is a smart addition. It ensures that all cells in the pack are charged equally, which can extend the life of your battery pack. It also helps to prevent overcharging, which can be dangerous.
Remember, safety first! Hope these tips help for your next build.
He did a lot of sketchy ass shit with the battery pack. I really wouldn't want that thing next to my head while I was sleeping lol. Great idea tho, he just needs the stuff you mentioned, and maybe a lesson in lithium ion safety lol.
Good day to you!
I am a grandpa rider on HONDA motorcycle from Japan.
Enjoying camping ,touring and upload video.
Your bike camper video is so nice!
Awesome!
Have a nice day my friend!
Just a thought, but powered wheels on the trailer and containing all the electronics in the trailer would seem optimal. You can then detatch your bike and use it as a bit, with just few switches and connectors adding weight.
Huge respect, this is super innovative!
in terms of efficiency, have you considered flipping the wagon, so the rear would become the front? it could make your setup significantly more aerodynamic, and save you a lot of energy as well
Exactly brother
Make the bike a recumbent and engulf it in an aerodynamic shell maybe?
@@thegoldenfish31 yeah? Tell me more about it 👍🏻
Congratulations, you sure have a lot of talent in many different areas. Hope all your hard work and planning, allows for many miles with your Newly battery powered bike and trailer.
Thanks Ben!
Very nice build! As a retired master electrician I build power packs with inverters from 400w to 5000w. My latest project was a diy solar powered outdoor sauna.
My god this was fun to watch. Watching this come together was so compelling. Good stuff.
Thank you!
Nice build. I have 3 concerns:
1) What is your charging current? I don't think that barrel jack can cope with it in the long run.
2) Those tightly packed, wrapped in foam, shrink wrapped batteries in an air tight case may over heat.
3) Although you used silicone sealant for the volt meter, I don't think the unit itself is water proof in any degree, it can get damaged by rain, also can cause water to go in the case.
1000W motor drawing from 17 banks of cells is not a lot of current. Doubt it will ever overheat.
Lions typically have a charge to discharge efficiency of 5%. If you assume the discharge contributes 2,5% then you're still heating an isolated box with 25W, and that's without the wiring and stuff.
It's definitely a concern that it might get to hot that way.
Although if the BMS has temperature protection features it might still be okay, even if not ideal.
@@TheShowdown16 tsk.. c'mon man. Cats aren't electric. 🙂
@Mike E 😏
@@TheShowdown16 yeah, i know. I couldn't resist.
You make a valid point about temps. Do you think, that with the box being black, that using it on a hot sunny day could cause problematic temps. Or would it be negligible.
great video and gives an incredible insight into what is achievable with some good old ingenuity. Your trailer concept would be interesting if it was adapted to being towed with a small petrol powered scooter or small motorbike . Obviously it would need to be more robust with some form of springs to take some of the jolting out of the suspension but the concept of a small form factor trailer camper that can be towed with a motorbike or scooter seems a viable method of seeing the countryside at a minimal cost.
That’s the coolest electric bike camper iv ever seen. I would just line that seat with a cushioned pad and then cover that with a full woollen pelt. 👌
This is fantastic! Consider yourself +1 subscriber sir!
The only observations/suggestions, would be to hook your rear lights up to the external battery as well, so you don't have to worry about those going out, and upgrading your brake setup.
I'd imagine with the weight if you're going downhill, that thing has some momentum. Perhaps some bigger callipers and discs as well as considering upgrading to hydraulic brakes (and potentially larger/gripier tires).
If you could fit brakes on the tralier as well, all the better.
Sturmey Archer made trike wheel hubs with internal drum brakes that would be perfect for a trailer build like this. the X-SD model comes to mind.
I know that if I was lugging a 60kg+ trailer up or down a hill I'd certainly want that trailer to have an independent braking system...
This was AWESOME! I'd love to have something like that. I have a Schwinn and a scooter - what a great way to travel about. Nice work, impressive.
Thanks for watching!
1. Make an aluminum frame. 2. Reduce the frame, it's too big. Enough T-frame. 3. The body of your camper is quite rigid, you can generally get by with a frame for wheels and connections with a bicycle.
Light weight camper build coming up next. Video will be coming in about a month!
Little dermabond on that cut before the swim is always a good idea.
Another tech here, with some improvement ideas. Mainly with the panel. Sun direction is a huge factor, yet your panel is fixed position. Mount the panel in a lightweight frame. Angled down as is when the Sun is that way. Up flat when the Sun is overhead. Maybe even angled forward just a bit when Sun is ahead, but of course that will add more air resistance, so not too much. 45 degrees side tilt to either side would also be easy.
You could easily double or triple the power you can get while riding vs the fixed panel if the Sun just doesn't happen to be from that specific direction of the slope of the back of the camper. And you won't have to orient the camper only to the Sun while you're camping to get good charging.
just wrap the whole thing with solar panels
I would suggest building a smaller battery bank which sits on the bike, maybe between the supporting beams or on the carriage as an emergency measure. If your main battery runs out, you can just take the bike out of the camper, go to a nearby gas station or hotel and have the main battery bank charged.
One more thing that you can do is to find a way to charge that battery pack real quick. I mean like an hour or two.
This is fantastic. Love the build, and really nicely filmed/edited. The comments here are also really informative and will be invaluable for others keen to explore their own DIY projects. I would love to know the weight of both the trailer and bike separately? Be useful just for calculating loads on the e-bike motor kit and the potential range calculations etc.
Keep up the great work! 🤙
Yes there are a lot of people in the comments that have far more knowledge on batteries than I do. I haven’t actually got it weighed since I added all the upgrades. I’ll try to get you some numbers this weekend!
@@DrewBuildsStuff thanks for documenting your hard work on this. One more potential update is adding a torque arm to the motor. If you push 1,000 Watts through it for a while those washers might eventually bend out or crack your drop outs. With your skills you could build your own torque arms very cheaply and ensure that never happens.
Much respect to that battery pack build, crazy how you figured all that out!
Your first build and this one are very good. Thanks. I was wondering, did you consider powering the trailer instead of the bike? The trailer would have more room / weight capacity for batteries/motors/controllers/regen braking..., plus the batteries would be there for use at night for lights/phones/.... Also, the trailer tongue could be made to activate the motors (to varying degrees) when pulled on, so the rider would only feel like they were on the bike with no trailer. Look forward to the next build.
This. A powered trailer that followed the tow bike would be awesome.
1 issue i see is the battery heat dissipation, heated lithium ion batteries form lithium dendrites, they will shorten your battery very quickly
This was my immediate thought too, especially when the cells were hot glued together with no spacing. And then they're in a foam insulated plastic case.
@@dyadica7151 While also being wrapped in foam, lol.
Hey, battery builder here. I really wish micha from ebikeschool would take his video down or update it as there's a MASSIVE safety issue with it.
Basically the case of every cell is negative. Meaning the only thing stopping your battery from shorting out is the super thin PVC shrink wrap around each cell. These wraps are super easy to damage through vibrations and will result in a fire. Since the fault would be before the BMS it won't protect you against this fault.
Fishpaper, thin plastic, whatever you want to use, but something abrasion resistant needs to go between each P group. Same with balance wires, they shouldn't cross over other P groups without protection. Tho it could be argued the thin wire will act as a fuse in itself, it's not a great argument given that causes a wire to catch on fire.
Also, that meter needs to be told what voltage your battery is to be accurate. That's why it always says 100%. Check the manual it came with, usually it's hold function on power up and change a value through long and short presses.
Yeah best to use cell holders to increase battery (rigidity, cooling and safety)a nd there wasn't paper ring at positive terminals to decrease chance of positive and negative touching. Also it is good to check your nickel in salt water to see if it is pure nickel because it has much lower resistance than nickel plated steel. Also soldering discharge wires directly to cells is still damaging them (also might cause short at positive side) so it is best to solder wire beforehand to nickel and weld it to cells.
A beautiful camper, wish we have someone like you in Pakistan to build such items❤❤❤❤
Really great engineering abilities. Wish we were taught these in college.
Uhhhh...engineering is taught in college 🤔
You could probably fit Renogy's 175W flexible panel on the same space as the 100W you installed. They now have a 200W flexible. Big difference!
Great build! Here's a tip: Solar panels can get pretty warm while taking in/converting sunlight and especially the flexi style panels, since they are designed to curve slightly, and as such, have no frame, resulting in the consumer resorting to (usually) flush mounting the panel directly to a flat surface and while this might seem like a neat design for aesthetics, flush mounted panels have a greater tendency to burn out in heavy continual use dueo the lack of air flow between the panel and the surface its mounted to, sdecreasing both the output and lifespan of the panel. Consider mounting the panel with enough space for cooler air to flow underneath the panel and if 2 panels or more are mounted, consider adding a pair of 12v computer fans, added with the necessary elec. modifications to step the voltage down so burning the fans won't be an issue, and you can force air to flow and cool down the panels which will preserve their lifespan and productivity...
On that note, in a different application of solar panels on a household rooftop, would it be a good idea to combine the photovoltaic with thermal abortion (water in pipes) to both cool the panels and maximise the energy capture per a given area? I've been thinking on it for a while. Essentially, would the solar panels need to be specially made for this application and would the photovoltaic block the thermal from working with any appreciable effect, or could the two types of panel just be stacked on top of each other? Maybe if there are liquid cooled photovoltaic solar panels that could be the whole thing in one package with the coolant being plumbed to dump heat into a hot water tank instead of out a radiator.
The magic of the White Man☺️👍🏻👍🏻!
These projects are so impressive, keep up the amazing work!
Thanks for watching!
Ideas for part 3
- Phone mount on the handle bars with charging.
- Add 1-2 more solar panels for more off grid possibilities like mini AC or Portable Monitor with a built in battery.
- Spare tire to replace a flat tire on the go and maybe electric air pump.
Very interesting, but now I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to build a single unit containing a fully faired recumbent tricycle or quadricycle that could double as a camper. The fairing would double as the camper shell, the seat that you need anyway could just fold down and maybe be extended to provide a sleeping platform. The only downside would be that you wouldn't get the open air and view you'd have without a fairing - so ideally the fairing would be retractable somehow. With electric assist it could provide a whole new way of long distance touring.
Perhaps since he already has the trailer he could just make a quadcycle useing two e-bikes useing the extra space for either more batteries for more range and/or bigger motor(s) for more speed thats what I would do if i had the space, tools, materials, and knowledge.
I like this idea, although I hate recumbents because their visibility is so bad on busy roadways since they're so low to the ground and hard to see from my truck.
@@Inmate533 - visibility to drivers is a problem, certainly, but a bicycle flag will go a long way towards resolving that.
When it comes to touring, though, there's nothing that beats a recumbent. I've ridden for hours on a recumbent without so much as stopping and been comfortable the whole time. The other downsides of recumbents - chiefly dealing with hills and difficulty for the rider to see what's behind them without losing their balance - would be dealt with by the electric assist and having four wheels, respectively.
@@alanlight7740 Good points all, plus having a tow-behind trailer makes the recumbent more visible as well. This gives me a lot to think about now in building my own towing ebike. I never considered a recumbent as a solution that I'd enjoy riding. Thank you!
@@Inmate533 - I should say, a two-wheeled recumbent can be a bit difficult learning how to balance. Once you've got it it's okay, provided you can maintain some forward motion - but even experienced cyclists in good health might need several hours practicing in a parking lot before they want to hit the road.
The sheer amount of patience you need just to make the battery alone is insane
DUDE - this is awesome. Question: did you use the solar panel at all to recharge the battery on your weekend trip? Or have you used it for that purpose since? I was wondering what charging performance you are getting out of that one panel.
Panel is not connected to the bike battery.
It's only hooked up to the power bank inside. It will recharge it in about 4 hours in direct sun. After that I can charge from the bank to the battery but it will drain the bank in a couple hours, and would take 5-6 times to fully charge the bike battery.
@@DrewBuildsStuff Could you connect your bike charger to the power bank while the power bank is being charged by the solar panel? Obviously the solar panel won't be able to keep up with the draw of the charger but that would at least give you a chunk of charging whenever you're stopped somewhere or the like, and keeping the battery topped off would be more convenient than having to charge all at once.
cool project -- is cooling an issue with this many batteries? might you want to have a thermometer and a little fan?
The day I drove it for a couple hours, it was 31 degrees Celsius and I checked the battery temp half way. You can see this in the video at one point. It wasn't gaining too much heat at that point but yes it could potentially be an issue in the future.
A little sheet metal shield on a hinge that goes over the battery pack would probably work to keep the sun off. It'd also help keep the rain out when it's parked outdoors - I know he caulked everything but water always finds a way.
Man, wish this stuff existed when I was young. I'd have had a blast with it.
I really loved this build. Well explained and a great execution. Really would love to build a trailer for my ebike myself
hey, i built a solar car from scratch as my senior design project last year(2022). and i gotta say you have done a great job building this. one sugesttion is that you have a foldable solar panel as well to speed up the caharging speed when you take a break.
Love your build and your youtube movie....all very inspiring ! Most of the outer wheel supports out there are rectangular constructions. An angled front bar however could work as well as a deflective wheel protector...and looks better !
Looking forward to your improvements.
Cool project! One thought, have you checked the operational temp for the batteries? I'm mainly curious about cooling
Me too! Seems like a thermal meltdown waiting to happen. Maybe I’m wrong.
Should be fine. Also, there are some BMS that have temp. checks. But with 13 cells in parallel the discharge will never be too hot. Especially if you see the bike can run 100+ KM, which means the draw is not that high.
as long as the bms remains attached and functional and he doesnt over clock the motor there shouldn't be any issues. given where the battery is its not likely that it will get damaged in an accident unless someone rear ends him. in witch case i would definitely take it apart and make sure everything is still solidly connected
Just watched the video again, he has only one Klixon thermal switch to "monitor" temperature and it kindof just sits on top! That's pretty much asking for trouble. The temperature sensor should be buried deep within the battery bank and not simply sitting on top. And then the solar cells are simply connected into the pack with no charge monitoring circuit. You have the right idea but the implementation is not too good and can spell doom for $1K worth of batteries. Edit - it is possible the charge monitoring can be built into the battery monitor by switching the low side but no enough info. Normally there is a temperature sensor included in charging circuit but I do not see that with this one, I can only see the klixon thermal switch which activates when things are already hot and turning to sh!t. Still, this should be in the middle of the bank and buried so that it is near the center of a middle battery.
Gel pack or something might not be a bad idea, but his discharge is probably so low he might be ok as long as nothing shorts.
you might want to check those 100AH Lipo or lifepo4 cells, then you don't have to spot weld them all together and you can drastically simplify your build and the failure rate over time is certainly smaller
LiFePO4 cells have a lower energy density than the chemistries used in the 18650 cells (NMC, NCA, LCO etc). So for the same amount of energy, he'd have to carry more LFP cells, thus more weight. But LFP is the safest of the lithium chemistries (with the exception of Lithium Titanate Oxide or LTO)
@@missingMBR that is a tradeoff, very true, the benefit is that you get about double the cycle life out of them, provided they are well balanced and used at around 0.2~0.5C charge/discharge rate
major advantage is the construction simplicity, and the chance of failure is much lower if your cell count is much lower.
I dont have your knowledge, tools and skills but I watched it all because it is great.
Yeah, hot glue doesn't seem like the best decision.
Since it's hot glue it can easily melt in hot weather which would not be good.
It is a nice and functional DIY option that won't intimidate people though.