Polyvagal Theory Explained Through a Neurodivergent Lens | The Neurocuriosity Club
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- Опубліковано 22 кві 2024
- Want to learn more about Polyvagal Theory? Check out these resources from Stephen Porges and Deb Dana, to pioneers in the world of Polyvagal Theory (may include affiliate links where, if you buy, I make a small commission at no extra cost to you):
Polyvagal Card Deck (like an oracle deck, but with polyvagal exercises!): amzn.to/3w6HLCa
Our Polyvagal World: How Safety & Trauma Change Us: amzn.to/4d62qa7
And if you'd like to work with me as a 1:1 coach, I'd love to meet with you. Just book a Discovery Call using this link:
calendly.com/theautisticentre...
😊 Hi, I'm Megan Griffith, I'm an auDHD life coach for the neurocurious, meaning I love helping people who know they're neurodivergent, but aren't quite sure specifically where they fit yet.
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The whole body stims suggestion for being in stuck in fight mode is great advice! That usually helps me a lot. Though I haven't been able to do the jumping/fast-spinning/throwing-my-body-into-furniture that usually helps me best lately, since I'm currently pregnant, and that's honestly been the only part about my pregnancy that's actually bothersome to me, lol. Whole body stims are the best.
Congrats! How about dancing?
My favourite flight response was when I'd been to the fresher's disco my first term at university (1982), and I got completely overwhelmed and just started walking. By the time I came properly back into my head I was 7 miles away, and then needed to walk back! A police car pulled up because I was walking alongside the wall of a posh estate at 2AM, at which point I was very glad I was White and Middle Class...
Yikes!
It would be super nice if you could make a short with each response. One with flight, one with fawn, etc. That way we could share bite sizes of the videos with friends and family members, in small digestible bites 😊😊
I have always known that my nervous system over reacts, but I didn’t understand why. I was at work one day, I was walking past the linen room door, some came out, and the doorknob hit my elbow. My funnybone. I began to feel woozy-and I leaned up against the wall, to hold me up, to let that woozy feeling pass. I began to hear such beautiful music, and suddenly all these people were around me and I was laying on the floor. My first thought was, “Why are all these people in my room?” I didn’t just feel woozy, I completely passed out. This hadn’t happened before. Thankfully nothing this dramatic has ever happened again.
Wow! This was a fantastic explanation and I appreciate those tips!! Thank you!❤❤❤
Very good explanation and great tips. Thanks
This is great, I've been wanting someone to talk about polyvagal theory from an ND perspective. One thing I noticed was that you mentioned the freeze response being part of the sympathetic NS. However, I remember reading that the freeze response is a flooding of both sympathetic and parasympathetic energy - as if the gas and brakes are pressed at the same time. True, you don't move, but the energy is exploding inside of you. I don't remember if I got that from Levine or Porges or Dana or another author entirely, though.
Right! It’s a mixed state. Dorsal ventral (which is parasympathetic) and sympathetic activation.
I love this channel! Not only is there research and information, but also practical tips. Thank you so much for doing these videos - you really deserve more subs than you have at the moment!
omgggg, thank you!!! I love research and I love helping people in a practical way too, so I'm glad that you've found both those things here (:
❤ I LOVE your examples and strategies!!! ❤
I have a slightly different understanding of the anatomy of the nervous system.
Ventral is toward the head or upper. It helps us feel safe and social.
Dorsal is lower. Helps our body shut down and collapse.
Sympathetic is housed in the spinal cord. It is responsible for flight fight.
Freeze is a mixed response like you said: sympathetic and dorsal.
Fawn is mixed ventral and sympathetic.
All of these are HEALTHY. It depends on the context.
Sympathetic can be stuck in the ON position in many of us. So even in a safe context we feel unsafe.
As far as I’m concerned, this world isn’t safe for so many people. Hyper-empathetic people are not going to feel safe when so many others are suffering. We may not even know consciously that we are responding to the suffering of the world, but our bodies know.
Thank you for explaing polyvagal theory through the neurodivergent lens! Its super needed! ❤
I love your idea of the resource roundup. I’m a big fan of networking resources. …I’m wondering, what do you do if someone isn’t a good fit?
Faun is usually my default when there's no way out... Ie. Talking to police officers, supervisor, etc.. situations where getting away isn't possible
This absolutely makes sense, and might be an adaptation you don't want to get rid of, but rather want to un-shame. Maybe doing work outside of that response and reminding yourself that you did it to be safe, that you're still yourself even if you had to fawn, and that you are good and whole, regardless of what you have to do to stay safe
Fawning is definitely my main response in many interactions with people. It's something I'd really like to stop doing, but it is SO difficult when you've grown up being told who you are and how you act isn't right. It's something that even appears in my closest relationships, like with my husband. It's so much easier to agree and give in to what he wants than to try to get my own, different opinion or desire across. Unfortunately, over 25 years of marriage that results in a sense of losing myself and what I really want. Doesn't help that I'm sure I'm AuDHD and fawning is also part of my high masking. I do think talking about my fawning with my husband when I'm not doing it would help, though. It's SO scary to think about, though!
What about starting with telling him about a recent example when you’re back to feeling safe and connected? Or writing a letter that you don’t have to share with him if you don’t want to?
A thought 💭 Maybe fawning is actually about what you need in that very moment. You need to survive in that very moment, and because you’re not able to fight it off, flee from it and freeze is not an option, you might resort to the last option of fawning, in order to survive.
This is my own experience from being bullied both physically and psychologically during my school years. Today as an adult, I still to a large degree find myself fawning/people pleasing. Even if there’s no actual reason for me to do so anymore.
What is your thoughts on this? 😊
Totally. All of these NS responses are part of how we evolved to survive as a species, and none are bad.
If you find that you’ve gotten stuck in a response that no longer meets your needs for safety, or like you said the context has changed, first of all you’re not alone. You may want to work with the trauma with a therapist. And/or move it through your body, especially across the midline of your body. This can help memories that feel ever-present onto a more coherent timeline.
So interesting. Thank you.
Curious what researches would say about freeze and flop being dorsal or vagal. I know being frozen feels like you can’t move - but it’s nothing like actually being at rest. I would imagine it takes a lot of mental resources to override all of your instincts and keep you stuck there. At least that’s how it feels for me. And it’s just as exhausting, if not more.
Freeze is a mixed state: synthetic and dorsal. And yes it can’t be sustained for long because it is like the gas and brakes full throttle at the same time. Think of a deer 🦌 in headlights or “playing possum.” We will either decide to go up or down the polyvagal ladder depending on our nervous system’s assessment of the situation. So we will either get unstuck and flee, or if there’s no perceived hope of escape we will collapse entirely to preserve life support systems (or at least feel less pain).