The Race To Electrify America’s School Buses
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- Опубліковано 10 гру 2022
- The electric vehicle revolution is making its way to a new segment, school buses. In the U.S., 26 million children take 480,000 buses to and from school every day. Converting that fleet to zero emission vehicles could have a big impact. Driving the change are companies ranging from traditional school bus manufacturers, Blue Bird and Thomas Built, to electric vehicle manufacturers, Lion Electric and GreenPower Motor Company.
Chapters:
2:08 - Ch. 1 Electrifying buses
5:06 - Ch. 2 Early adopters
7:21 - Ch. 3 Companies
10:37 - Ch. 4 Challenges
Produced by: Andrew Evers
Supervising producer: Jeniece Pettitt
Additional Camera: Magdalena Petrova, Sam Rega
Narration: Magdalena Petrova
Graphics by: Jason Reginato
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The Race To Electrify America’s School Buses
Even better than electric school busses is building our communities so that kids can walk or bike to school. It's not always possible, especially in existing neighborhoods, but it should be the default in new communities.
I live in such a community, and it's great. Our children are more independent and active. And yes, we live in a place known for snow. But kids are tough if you give them the opportunity to be.
We still have a few busses though, and I'd be happy if they were electric.
Most new neighborhoods in Florida are constructed like that, but kids should not have to spend a ton of time getting to school.
It IS possible. Neighborhoods were bulldozed to build modern cities. Single family zoning was introduced. All of that can be reversed. It happened in the Netherlands.
@@seanthe100 Well they do because of the way the city is. In other countries they can walk for like 10-20 minutes. They get daily exercise along with it. And they don't have to worry about any traffic, or a crazy bus driver.. Meanwhile some student in America have to ride the bus for 2 hours everyday! That was my experience most of my life in school.
@@austinhernandez2716 I went to a school where literally everyone walked we only had one bus for the handicap so this really isn't the story for all of Americans.
It technically is possible by allowing for multi family communities near schools.
Can't even afford books and others supplies, but buses are the priority.
As a previous kid with asthma, I hated the bus because it often affected my lungs. The kids are gonna appreciate this so much.
Why would the bus impact your lungs any more than all the other vehicles on the road?
@@corbin8930 at least in my school you had to stand in front of like 10 buses all idling for 30 minutes and constantly breathe it in all the exhaust
Diesel does have particulates, less so in newer engines, but hate to break the news but making batteries on that scale are not flowers and butterflies. Do your own research. You are just passing the buck to some other part of the planet. As much as they want economic growth in a remote part of Nevada they hesitate to mine there. Hopefully they find better ways.
@@alb12345672 still better than fossil fuels, not perfect but no serious EV advocate is unaware of the negative impacts of EVs. It’s really stupid logic to say “EVs aren’t perfect so we should continue using fossil fuels which are even worse”
@@corbin8930😂😂😂😂 ikr she sound Hella dumb
I think school busses are the perfect way to being electrification to areas. They aren't doing insanely long trips overall but probably could make a few capable of such because the busses are just so long and can have large batteries.
And it might help bring infrastructure to areas. The vast majority of the US has absolutely no infrastructure.
I have lots of concerns about EVs being able to be for mainstream buyers so many issues with it. However this seems to be a decent idea.
The thing is electronic vehicles work great in southern America. There is no way those batteries would last in Canada
School busses add .00002% of greenhouse gasses to the atmosphere.
Meanwhile, the biggest causes are completely ignored.
Absolute stupidity.
You obviously havent gone on a EV roadtrip i was absolutely amazed how many chargers exist.
@@kingofrivia1248 sounds like you live in a small area of the US or Canada where that exists. In -40 those batteries lose a ton in range or they lose efficiency way faster then those in more favourable parts
@@kingofrivia1248 yea because the batteries don’t hold up in the cold
Since school buses got massive roof and sitting idle most of the time..the manufacturers can try to install solar panels that would self charge the bus or get some additional range ..it would reduce the load on the grid ...
I think it would take at least a couple of sunny summer days to bring the depleted batteries to fully charged with a solar panel the size of a bus roof.
@@darkgalaxy5548 The solar panels would be used more as a backup is what op was saying. In the instance that additional range would be needed.
@@okn8t An unreliable power source as a backup is probably a bad idea.
@@darkgalaxy5548 That would depend on where you live of course. Maybe full electric will be in predominantly sunny climates and hybrid buses in regions with less sunny climate.
@@okn8t Well, as long as the sun shines, it should work fine.
I am very excited to see electrification in larger scale vehicle applications, but one point of anxiety I still have is the uncertainty of manufacturers making their vehicles repairable by anyone besides them. Tesla already makes me nervous with their withdrawal of service manuals and being very touchy about specific diagnostics, but without proper oversight, it's not a stretch to imagine the companies trying to hold school districts accountable for huge repair bills on problems they could otherwise easily solve
This is a great point and I hope it stays near the top of the comments! A local government could easily get swindled by an experienced EV supplier into not checking for repairability and serviceability clauses, and once they've made the huge investment to convert most of their fleet they'll be locked in for years.
🤡
Yeah it's almost impossible to do repairs on Tesla unless you take it to Tesla
@@trogdorstrngbd change the law governing access to manuals and parts, people have been working. on this for farm equipment for years. I guess John Deere has your complete respect already?
Can We Say wait for more Rolling Blackouts if they Electrify all vehicles because they can’t keep the lights on as it is with the Lakes drying up it’s a big pricey transition & the only people that will be gaining will be Brandon’s Circus us little people aren’t going to afford EVs school districts struggling to transport kids right now can’t afford these buses or setting up charging stations our government is just out of their minds
We have electric Thomas buses in our fleet. They cost 3X more than a Cummins, only have a range of less than 120 miles, power cost to charge exceeds diesel costs and we have had nothing but trouble with them. I don't recommend them to any district. We made a huge mistake.
But the virtue signaling is totally worth it! And no diesel smell!
Have you considered looking for other manufacturers?
What's the price per kWh? And the price of diesel per L (or US gallon)?
My district is getting an electric Blue Bird and it has 120 something miles on it as well, can't wait to hear about the new stories. Tax payers are gonna get a treat with this one!!
@@TSi99999what is virtue signalling
EVs are perfect for public transport, the distances are set and they are not dependent on public charging.
Trolley’s are better.
That doesn't work for school buses doign field trips or doubling up on runs.
Unfortunately gvt. contracts go to the lowest bidder. Wait till one of those batteries catches fire.
yep, the city of Shendzen in China at 11,000 electric buses!! - ua-cam.com/video/0P7fTPLSMeI/v-deo.html
I work at one of the largest public university transit systems and our EV busses are honestly pretty trash. Supposed to be very nice but they are heavily restricted to certain routes due to poor charge and lack of range, very heavy too. Also the quietness of the bus is nice but can also be dangerous as there are many pedestrians who may not be paying attention.
great, but, now fix the driver shortage
Look again, hint: ports
Put cages on them like the prison bus and people would take the job .
Self driving
@@dicktracy5234you would have to chain the kids up shackles
@@chiquita683 no so soon
Given the shape of the average school bus - good, I'm not sure why new buses are being bought when conversion kits would be a simpler and more economical strategy
Chassis, seat, not motor equipment are all designed to last only so long.
Conversion kits probably don't have substantial warranties and would be too varied.
Power companies are investing in these school buses in heavy numbers so they can use them for grid storage and profit. Harder to implement unless the systems are uniform and compatible.
There is so much more to this than just replacing a powertrain.
@@AugustBanks agreed to a certain extent. The chassis are typically good for 20 years. 5 to 10 for the first customer and the balance for the "poor" school that gets it next. There's over 20 companies getting into the school bus game. A few as manufacturers and the balance as conversion companies. There is always room.
If you do not live in California, but you are buying a variety of different items shipped from California, you will be helping pay for those school buses (and other 'green' items as well). The State of California now charges an extra 'environmental' tax on items shipped from that state to customers located outside of California. This is an addition to your own state sales tax (if you have it). Once I noticed this extra fee, I stopped buying anything from California (I am already paying 7% Sales tax on purchases to my own state). Enough is a Enough.
Electrification of a school bus is a no-brainer, but seat belts and air conditioning would be ultimate upgrades for the health and safety of children riding school buses.
As a school bus driver, I agree 100%.
School buses do have seat belts but you're not required to wear it because school buses are actually safe. I do agree that some buses need better air conditioning, but some have pretty good air conditioning, because of where they're placed.
@CaptainSpaceMan98 the seats are heavily cushioned. Forward or rear impact, the kids will hit that soft material and the forces will be absorbed. As for A/C, just [REDACTED] open the window!
@@bryancurdi2318 Actually false. During a crash test with crash dummies, (and data taken from it.), Most Buses do not have seatbelts and those without them are more likely to have a fatal or a bad consequences compared to seatbelt buses.
@@LegoWormNoah101 Sure, However nothing is stopping them from being flung sideways, or hitting the roof during severe crashes or T-Boned Accidents.
What they should really electrify first are those grocery transport trucks. They have fixed determined routes between the warehouse and the grocery stores
You literally made the point of the video. School buses have fixed routes. And they are a much bigger fleet than grocery transport trucks.
@@provoschoolbus True, but the reason why I prioritized transport trucks is because they travel longer distances and they have much bigger engines that pollute more
Bruh hearing the diesel school bus around the corner was so awesome bc you knew the trip was starting and you'd be leaving school in just a moment 😂
97%+ of school buses would be way better and cheaper in the long run. There are a very small number of special exceptions, but just keep a few of the old diesels around for that and you are good.
Replacing the remaining diesels with hybrid solutions would work as well, but you lose almost all the real savings to maintenance cost as they get older(5-10 years old)
There are 500,000 school buses operating in the USA. 45,000 in NY alone. Who's going to pay to replace them with considerably more expensive electrics? It's another liberal pipe dream.
There are no hybrid solutions. The EPA kept changing the standards so the only hybrid school bus got discontinued within a few years.
Pretty much all commercial vehicles should be electrified (especially in logistics). They don't travel particularly long distances but make frequent stops and require a lot of torque because they carry heavy loads. School buses, construction equipment, delivery vans, garbage trucks, and similar commercial vehicles can all run brilliantly on battery power. Would also do a lot to reduce noise and air pollution, and I would imagine maintenance would be a lot cheaper as well.
problem with logistics and ev`s are: the batteries weigh a ton and don't really weigh less empty so for a truck your lugging around a few ton off batteries. so you can transport less so you need more trucks and the most expensive part of it you need to pay more drivers. maybe if they get the sulfur battery`s in production(almost double the energy density of lithium cobalt) it may work out. only part where you can effectively use EV is the last few miles like the parcel delivery service in city`s but for the bulk litium-cobalt battery`s are just too heavy. what could work with current tech is powerlines above the mainly used highways ua-cam.com/video/_3P_S7pL7Yg/v-deo.html&t
@@deanvanluven6813that 300 gallons of diesel costs about $1000. Electricity to charge the battery around $300. So you lose $700 every time you fill up.
No Gas Cars Are Better Who Cares About Glaciers
@@fyou4641 ahhh, but those heavy batteries lower the center of gravity a lot and make the buses inherently more safe. BTW, battery tech is changing faster than you can read about it... murphy's law is in full play
Combine electric commercial vehicles with solar & wind commercial rooftops and parking lot covers to basically eliminate all the "but the grid cannot handle it" comments as well as make the fleets even more cost effective.
Anything that reduces demand for fuels and also reduces the dependency on the grid monopoly is all good.
Have any big schoolbus manufacturers made hybrid schoolbuses?
That's a good question.
I was thinking the same thing
have make propan schoolbuses
Hybrid school buses was a thing a few years ago. It didn't work out.
Electric is where the money is at.
Well, having a bunch of kids in a diesel bus is still better for the environment than having their parents drive them all into school in their own petrol/Diesel Powered Cars
I think their also making Diesel Buses look bad btw. Like their examples of the Diesel buses of putting out lots of smokes and fumes isn't 100% true. Newer school buses with Diesel engines you can't smell the fumes at all. It's not like theses engines don't become efficient overtime. Just be informed that Diesel engine progress in efficiency over time just like regular car engines. Detroit Diesel made a 4-cylinder engine called the DD5 for buses and trucks. theses engines make the ride quiet especially on school buses. Also, you have the Cummins 6.7 ISB Engines that has been becoming more better overtime as years continues. You guys can't 100% say diesel engines are terrible, bad, and should be gone because guess what runs the engines? Semi-Trucks do, and they defiantly need them for milage and pulling loads around the states. The new Semi Trucks run cleaner btw with the new engines they had made. I don't think Eletric engines are bad for us or anything, I think it's a good thing. They have many benefits like being cheaper to recharge and since Deisel gas prices are very high still, they have their huge advantage there. But people need to remember that not ALL diesel engines are bad like they say because diesel engines are getting better at being efficient here just like gasoline car engines are getting better.
This is fine for school districts in wealthier urban settings but it will take a loooong time for the price to come down enough for smaller rural schools to afford these. School budgets have been on the decline across the board and you heard that one lady say that her affluent school district would need a rather large budget increase going forward. These are not yet practical at all.
Not only the price, but rural areas tend to have much longer routes and the battery life becomes a serious limiting factor especially when considering the sports teams of these schools that often times must travel many hundreds of miles away.
Furthermore, lack of infrastructure and trained mechanics to keep this type of fleet operational make these busses a pipe dream in most places for decades to come.
Great idea though. Let’s keep moving forward on this.
Just like electric cars, unaffordable. My diesel International has such good pollution devices you can put your nose to the tailpipe and smell nothing. No smoke, either.
@@1940limited A Ford, lol.
@@1940limited I agree but the EV’s will get better and cheaper in time. I think people often forget that we have been perfecting the internal combustion engine since the 1860’s.
Innovations sometimes take time but eventually they will become more efficient and cheaper as we refine the tech and perhaps have a breakthrough or two.
As you point out, many school districts are struggling to fund their basic services, so they can only afford the least expensive transportation. And they'd need to have several longer-range buses for away games and field trips. It will be quite a few years before electric school buses become sufficiently affordable and have the range to interest my district.
@@1940limited You admitting to sniffing poison explains your comment pretty well.
The issues are that these are draws on power grids that already are stretched
Some states that are making it mandatory have the worse grids there
It's a liberal pipe dream detached from reality as is usually the case on the left.
they will charge in the nigh when no usage is low
@@1940limited not really
It's a good concept but it sees a "benefit" without seeing full cost
Look at how CFLs were supposed to be good. Yes they are more efficient than incandescent bulbs yet they contain mercury and those with migraines can be affected by them
@@PK-tt5kk if you watched the video they have to charge them twice during the day just to complete their routes
135 Miles range? That is less than 1/3 of Tesla Semi which is 500 Miles.
Loaded is more like 250 to 300 miles. The technology is getting better.
Range is determined by battery size and efficiency. If the route is less than 100 miles, who cares? There's no free lunch. More range is heavier and costs more $
I do like these new school buses. At the same time, I see no issue with the old diesel buses. Id argue that the old diesel smell is what makes them kinda cool. I also believe that these buses wont make alot of sense in more rural areas.
Am I the only psycho who likes the sound and feeling of being in a engine powered bus
Happy to see more electric NJ Transit buses during my NYC commute!
I think hybrid would be a better option. You get the benefit of regenerative braking, less noise and less battery size which helps with less rare earth materials used and less CO2.
You can have regenerative braking with all electric. Hybrid means using an internal combustion engine that produces CO2. (More that all electric)
@@erikk77 what does more all that electric mean
Less CO2 yet not none
@@GeeksGets electric cars are still bad for the environment so
@@sybsygstgstsgysg5330 these are buses...
I love how fast he accelerates around children.
Hybrids would be a better option in my opinion. They’re cleaner that diesel & take less to fill up but oh well. The progress to electrification should take much more time. I think we’re all going into this way too fast.
Why?
I wish more schools would offer bussing for families around the country. I didn’t get to have that experience growing up, but I think electric busses are a great way for kids to get a ride to school!
Trust me, you don't want to pay the freight for electrics.
@@1940limited Still way better than poisoning kids as they wait to go to school
@@1940limited Yea, electrics thrive in these niches, and excel in short commutes...
Imagine load on the already strained electrical grid. California is in a drought along with many other states. An attack on our grid would also mean that millions of kids wouldn’t get to school.
Very good initiative by US administration in the interest of cleaner and greener environment for future generations!!👏👍
All of this could have been avoided if we had built better cities with better planning. If kids have the ability to walk or bike to school we wouldn't need these big yellow blocks of cheese, or maybe as many of them as we do now. People wonder why the United States is becoming so expensive to live in
Yeah, I'm from Europe and I remember riding a minibus to school as a thirdgrader. But your proposal requires fixing unnatural American zoning to allow building low-rise multi-family homes (and preferably mixed-use buildings) in current single-family districts, which NIMBYs aren't gonna allow to happen (not least because of racism)
This would be fine for cities and rural areas with mostly flat routes. These would not be able to handle the routes that have very steep hills and take over an hour to drive due to the limited battery capacity.
I would expect EVs to perform better due to high motor torque. Their range should also exceed that of diesel unless the companies is really cheaping out, at least 1100kkm.
Then on such steep hills go with overhead cables. Trolley buses have used such cables for decades and being electric drive able to take on Hills to steep for diesel powered vehicles. In many open pit mines such electric drive trucks are common, given the greater torque produced with an electric engine.
I think the concern is during those brutal Summers and putrid Winters.
One is the battery overheating/overused and the other is premature battery draining due to the cold.
Hill climbs is a non-factor IMHO
Some districts it just doesn’t work though. Like mine. Sure it might work for the few routes in the downtown area but many of the routes went out to the suburbs. My bus went into downtown and then went out to the suburbs and would total 60 miles on just one route… not including other routes the bus has to take. There’s been times where the buses have run out of gas before. Just this year they finally phased out all Freightliner buses and now only operate Thomas C2’s and ICs which are not even like 10 years old. They’ve been taking like 7 or 8 buses a year I think so maybe after this they will cut down and add some electrics but idk
If 135 miles isn't enough for a specific case they could spec larger batteries but they would be heavier and cost more. Perhaps routes could be split up or redesigned to make them shorter. 60 miles each way is a pretty long ride to school for young kids
@@trevorritchie2575 it is but the district has bus shortages and covers a large area of space. Just about every bus is full to the brim
@@GoalHornGeek sounds like the district has some issues to work out. Good luck!
What's interesting is that this is Fairfax county who has some of the oldest buses in the school bus fleet in the state of Virginia.
I remember cnbc making a video 5 years back highlighting how polluting and old the current school buses are and hinted that electric buses make the perfect sense because of predictable routes and no hurry charging required because you have more than 3 hrs to charge them between the morning and evening trips. It's good to see atleast some progess in this area, but slapping on an electric motor and battery and not changing the aerodynamic designs seem sloppy and somewhat lazy.. hope the school buses get redesigned for better efficiency..
Precisely. We need a ground-up design for a new bus, but this is a good first step.
Who at CNBC drives, maintaines, or pay for electric school buses? I love the "experts" who really know nothing about the subject sprouting their views to gullible audiences.
@@willitbreak5825 Low-floor is the way to go. I keep hearing from "experts" that high floor is safer yada-yada but inner-city buses tend to have lower fatality rates in accidents (by a large margin) than standard truck-chassis school buses.
Rather it's the seating layout is the reason for not switching or something else, your suggestion is a good one to ask
Honestly it was really nasty approaching all the busses after school to find your bus. All the busses together idling releasing that nasty smell can be harmful to students. I hope the electric busses make a better difference.
In California, school bus is not allowed to idle while waiting for students at the school bus ramp, on school zone and/or residential area.
I rode school buses & drove school buses their required at the School to shutoff the bus when loading & unloading students as for the stink they weren’t that bad wait til your taxes go up to pay for them new EVs
@@tval8780 True it’s like that pretty much every School District not just California I used to drive School Bus in Texas & New Mexico they both required shutoff at the school loading or unloading
@@CA-bw7mf People don't have a clue what this "clean" energy really is. They will believe what ever they are told.
@@jjk2one it isn’t clean it’s all about Power & making us do what the Government wants
Most districts can’t even hope to afford them. A lot of rural districts near me just got propane buses, they are cleaner burning and more cost effective than diesel.
Imagine waiting for your school bus to show up because it's not charged yet 🤣😂,why has aliens have flying saucer technology but humanity doesn't yet?
The electric school bus is a good idea but I wonder if it will be sustainable or a cost burden for schools if school budgets gets cut.
That's two things that tends to get brush aside a lot by municipalities.
If they're committed then the budget should flex towards fleet electrification over road/utility repairs OR how can the grid handle that extra overload. Then the disposing process after these buses reach their limit.
The overall average cost to drive an electric vehicle is extremely low compared to diesel. A diesel engine has an efficiency of about 55%, the rest is wasted as heat and parasitic losses in the gearbox. Electric vehicles have an efficiency of about 75% and have no gear boxes. A passenger car costs about $0.20 per mile, electric car about $0.08 per mile.
Pay the teachers less I guess
Instead of focusing on the transportation to our public schools we should focus on the quality of our education. +$400,000 per is way too much. Don’t be an early adopter and just wait another few years.
Lol, since when Americans have budget limit
@@pranaym3859 The only place USA has no budget limits is corn subsidies and the army
Yeah all the teachers are quitting due to the low pay but let's triple the bus cost! And how much are the battery chargers that can handle a fleet?
If the government eliminated the unnecessary concerns of Ukraine and refocused funds to our infrastructure funding for social services for born Americans would improve the available resources for those who contribute to the tax base.
How does this change how the US sources electricity? The EIA states that 20% of energy consumption was renewable in 2021, meaning 80% of the electric for these buses would be sourced from natural gas, coal, and nuclear.
It means one less problem when we switch to renewables.
The public school system is the perfect platform for electrification. At least to see how good or bad the technology can get before rolling out in the masses. Local county government also needs such vehicles like meter readers, mail service, code enforcement, road engineers/public works who have their vehicles idling for hours by the road construction sites with lights flashing.
These buses need solar roofs and to be connected to the grid when not in use.
Yeah, or a solar canopy (less expensive and cheaper to integrate) over the bus parking lot
Elon addressed that and said the solar tech is not advanced enough for solar roofs on any vehicle to make a difference on range.
No. Schools need these to be as simple as possible. More parts means more maintenance . Solar roofs won’t add much additional capacity, and tying them into the grid would require a grid tie inverter. It would all be abandoned in 5 years.
Probably not a cost effective solution. I think it would be better for the schools to install rooftop solar. Power generation and bus charging requirements would be matched well.
It would take 2 months to charge up batteries on a vehicle like this with solar. Think a small garden solar light takes 2 days to fully charge, your phone takes at least 5 days to charge by Solar :D a bus has millions of the same battery you have on your phone :D
Now if they can provide electric bicycles to all of the students and staff then they won't need the buses except for the students who cannot operate a bicycle or walk to school.
The motor on the bus goes brrrrrrr
I agree with the news and the comments here. What I am not seeing is the push to upgrade the electric grid. Last summer, California instructed their EV owners not to charge due to the shortage.
Short answer is a lot people are pushing for something that isn't even ready.
Amazing. Why don't they put solar panels on the bus roof though? Is that not feasible?
Adds weight. Just put the solar panels over the parking lot and they can keep charging batteries all the time and be tied into the grid
I saw a fast charging station near a Home Depot. I started taking pictures and was requested to leave the property. They were using natural gas fuel for Onan generators. Today there area cinder block walls around these units. Yep definitely a cleaner way to keep Americans moving.
Natural gas is far greener than diesel… I think it’s like 60% cleaner. Not perfect, but much better for environment and a jumping off point.
@@sethfroman7044 This is true, however it's still using fossil fuels. The whole idea is to stop using these types of fuels. Where I live, new homes are no longer allowed natural gas. But I can buy an older home and install a gas furnace. It's all golfed up
@@bigbadjohn2543 ohhh I agree with you there. Our green energy is ass backwards. Natural gas isn’t our silver bullet or a future solution. It’s a bandaid and hopefully ONLY a stepping stone to better and cleaner energy.
That's why Teslas are called "coal powered cars."
@@bigbadjohn2543 well that will change in the future. U cant change everything instantly.
Newer generation diesel buses have reduced exhaust emissions, plus, there is hardly ANY stinky smell anymore. Ya, you still get that clacking sound from engine, but even that's not as bad as the old ones. Now, what happened to hybrid technology? Instead of going full send on all electric, come up with an ICE "assist" first. Kinda like an electric bike, where both electric motor and human power work together, a small diesel engine work WITH electric motors as prime movers. You would still have some batteries of course, but not nearly as many as a full electric buss. Electric assist would come into play when a fully loaded bus takes off from a dead stop to get it rolling, then the engine would take up the slack to sustain cruising speed. To save money, the diesel engine would be tied into the main power train, (no generator in between). So, yes, the bus would be plugged in at night to recharge, but may need only like 1/3rd the batteries a full electric needs. Oh, regenerative braking would be a big help too! Use that rolling kinetic energy to charge the batteries instead of wasted heat in conventional braking system. The system would have to be very robust to tolerate the stress caused by the bus drivers' normal habit of floorboarding the go pedal, then do the same to the stop pedal at the next bus stop! I know most all electric vehicles already incorporate some sort of regen braking. Another perk of using a small diesel engine: It can run the A/C compressor(s) AND provide heat when cold! They don't mention those things when bragging about a full electric bus! Make any sense?
no ICE engine is clean enough, and still has Nox gases - hybrid just adds complexity so more cost and maintenance than just electric only. If it was worth it it would have been done already and China would have done it already, but they did this! - ua-cam.com/video/0P7fTPLSMeI/v-deo.html
@@markreed9853 Ya, there's tradeoffs for sure, but fewer batteries that don't get taxed quite as much as a 100% electric bus may help equalize it a bit. + are coal fired power plants cleaner than a present day computerized ICE engine? After all, it's all about how the electricity is being produced to charge all this EV stuff.
@@curtchase3730 one main issue with ice vehicle engines is they are very inefficient as a lot of fuel is wasted as heat, so around 30% of the fuel is actually turned into motion. An electric motor is over 90% efficient so converts more of that energy into motion. I live in the UK where around 50% of electricity created is zero carbon which includes nuclear power. US electric grid in on about 20% renewables currently though I don't think that's including nuclear but all electric grids are getting cleaner up over time as more renewables are added. No, it's not perfect and never will be but electric vehicles will become better over time, burning gas not so much.
@@markreed9853 Good arguments! So, the world has been living with ICE's that are only say 20-30% efficient. The piston engine that is a physical nightmare, has not changed much in over 120 years, is still here. Imagine how much more oil the world would have if only these out dated engines got even 50% efficiency! Ya, I know, add all the losses from the powertrain on top of all that. Fantasy, I know. Shame. Countries all over the world are banning diesel engines because they stink and pollute, ok fine. Gas engines can be outfitted with tons of devices to reduce emissions at the cost of using much more fuel than a diesel. Idiot government in the US thinks ethanol is the answer to reduce oil use. Joke. It takes MORE energy to process corn than the energy provided by it! Solar panels, Lithium batteries, all require so much energy to make in the first place, their life is nearly over before they break even! People that live in large cities in China walk around with face masks on, NOT just for Covid, but the pollution! They ride electric busses! They use coal to generate the clean electricity to charge their EV's. Rob Peter to pay Paul. No gains.
@@curtchase3730 I agree with some things but no an electric vehicle pays back the extra carbon emissions of making the battery by around the 40,000 mile mark currently but this is getting better all the time. Yes, China does have a lot of coal power stations but then it has more solar and wind than any other countries as well, it has 1.3 billion people and produces a lot of the products for other companies, from other countries, so it's not a fair comparison. Pollution levels in the US, Canada and Australia per person are worse than China. The reason China wants to go electric is so that the air pollution is better in cities, just look at Shenzhen now.
0:39 i love that version
Well planned routes, relatively short routes, longer duration between uses and lower maintenance. School busses are one of the vehicles that makes sense. There is also no shortage of space of batteries if you need range. Could also scale to have few dedicated to longer routes for sports of field trips, but at some point you may be able to charter a bus if needed
Some buses drive over 100 miles a day for a route, usually mine can be, especially when doing during or after school field trips, sometimes both. Also many drivers park their buses at home where I am, wonder where those drivers would plug their buses in at, especially ones that park on the side of the street.
Yeah wait until you hear how the mechanic has to go fish for the bus 3 hours away LOL
Im suprised the US still uses diesel buses.. Some countries like china and singapore are now all or majoruty electric buses
Yet when you look at the list of literally the 100 most polluted cities almost all are either in China, India, or Pakistan. Not one is in the US
I'm surprised China practices a genocide against Muslims right now.
Yeah and buses in China catch fire all the time
"SpongeBob" has a very new episode: "Mrs. Puff's School Bus"!👍👍👍👍👍👍
I've looked into buying an EV before I gave up after I found out how expensive they are to own. Even for a sedan, there is about a $20K cost premium for the EV over the gas counterpart. On top of that, I have to invest even more to upgrade my electrical system and install a charging station. After 10 years, I will still not have broken even and will be left with a dead battery that will be very expensive to replace. If you look at most EV offerings, they tend to skew towards the luxury market. Even Kia / Hyundai, the cheap car brand, are making their EVs more premium than their gasoline offerings to target the luxury market. Clearly, EVs are not practical from an economics standpoint. They are a luxury, toys for the rich.
How are school districts going to deal with the extra expense of running a fleet of electric buses when many are already financially constrained and struggle already to cover necessary expenses? How will they deal with the costs to upgrade their electrical systems and installation of charging stations? How will they deal with the massive expense of replacing the batteries when they die in ten years? I only see electric busses working in rich neighborhoods with strong tax payer base and residents who have the privilege to care about air / noise pollution.
My 2018 Nissan LEAF cost $26k. Not much different from a Honda Civic or Toyota Camry. It cost me $25 for a 40A circuit breaker and $80 for the inspection. The maintenance costs have been $0 and the battery is under warranty for 8 years or 100,000 miles. Electricity costs 1/10 what gas costs. Plus, it's fully charged and ready to go every day. No more gas stations or oil changes
That’s a great idea! Also, if a kid doesn’t behave well, the seat should send an electric shock so Timmy learns to behave. Bam 💥 bus driver shortage solved as well.
You can use the shock therapy on DIESEL busses too, but I see what you are getting at
Would be nice if Thomas and Blue Bird could learn how to build decent buses. We have them both in our fleet and have for years. The driver ergonomics are horrible and they break down constantly, even the new ones.
Technicians have to eat. It's made to break.
They've been built cheap and 💩 sense I was a kid. Include International to that list as well with that nasty MaxxForce engine (pollutes like a chain smoking aunt).
The only good buses I have ever ridden & driven were from Freightliner.
@@MarloSoBalJr I remember as a kid in the early 60s Thomas bodies not being as comfortable as Ward. I have a 7 year old International CE300 and love it.
That's the great thing about electric motors: they are incredibly simple and not prone to breaking down!
@@chrisstarlitvagabond1496 Right. They just burst into flames, or the batteries do.
Where did you get electricity ?🤣🤣
I've always loved the smell of diesel on those morning field trips to wake me up 🤣 ...but I agree wholeheartedly to electrify school buses.
More sustainable but the issue, as always, is gonna be how we are going to dispose of these EVs once they reach their end life. Then the long-term overload of the power grid.
I guess that's a concern later on.
Call Kamala & Brandon on that question oh don’t forget the EPA Secretary too
@@CA-bw7mf Electricity use already grows year over year, electric vehicles are just going to increase that growth. So we'll build more power plants to accommodate that greater growth. It's far from unsolvable.
Do the school buses have to be truck based? I would imagine there would be added weight due to the platform used which would have an effect on range. I also see none seem to be disability accessible, wouldn't a low floor European style bus be more cost effective and efficient?
Yeah, these conventional cabs may have made sense as a cost-saving measure (as truck chassis are cheaper) on roomy suburban roads where COE has less of an advantage but they are becoming ridiculous for engineless vehicles that doesn't have anything under the hood at all!
But I guess when school bus companies will have to compete with regular bus manufacturers, they may quickly go out of business since the the latter have so much better economy of scale
Yeah, Coming from the UK I always found the US school bus design very strange, here kids use public transport buses mostly, so suitable for the disabled as well.
@Mark Reed same as here in Australia, conventional low floor buses
@@gde1989 saying that our coaches have a high floor and carry more people so that's one reason maybe?
Thats mostly because School buses must meet up to certain safety requirements before being able to driving on the roads in the U.S.
Blue Bird was stick with the Cummins, Thomas Built was stick with Porterra, And the other one IC, is staying with Navistar too. All those electric buses are here. Gas, propane, or diesel engine are not going anywhere. The manufacturers have to find a way to stick with internal combustion engines to reduce emission systems.
IC Bus got screwed in 2009 because they had to keep up with the EPA. They had so many well maintenancable vehicles up to that point. Their 2009 IC FE prototype was gone and there's little to no more proof that it exists anymore.
Nothing better than the smell of a diesel engine
Good to hear about the growth.... Maybe I'll be able to get a used electric bus to convert some day.... Definitely prefer that to gas. Plenty of roof space for solar, so if you are parking for a day or two of recharge time between longer drives, you should be indefinitely good to go without gas.
Solar on the roof of a car generally will net you about 3mi/day in perfect conditions. Sure it's a big bus roof, but it's also a big bus to push so that number is probably not too far off. If you took the cost of solar panels, an inverter and installation which could easily be $5-10k and instead used that money to buy a bigger battery, you'd get a way more practical option. You could easily get 20 miles or more of range for that kind money.
It seems like a really cool idea, but the math says it's best to put solar panels on structures and big batteries in vehicles.
There’s a pretty small percentage of gas buses, most are diesel, and how are you gonna convert an electric bus to electric?
@@sybsygstgstsgysg5330 People often convert buses into RVs.
@@privatemale27 I thought you were saying you were gonna convert an electric bus to electric
With the empty space on the roof, wouldn’t installing a few additional panels reduce charging times. Help with drawing less power from the onboard batteries…🤷🏻♂️
solar would add very little to range as the electric motors are so powerful and batteries so big! - its just not worth it.
Could easily fit over a thousand watts of solar on top.
definitely a good idea, with all the surface area. With schoolbuses, I think the biggest issue is cost though, and solar panels wouldn't be bringing that down.
Did the put seat belts on these ?
They need handcuff chains
Most likely not, except for the driver's seat and maybe a couple of seats in the front.
The consensus among safety experts is that school busses are safer without seatbelts, and that it's best to direct safety design to the seatback materials, so the students impact that safely, if there is an accident. The problem with seatbelts, is that it makes evacuations a lot more difficult, in the event that the students can't unbuckle their own seatbelt.
School busses also have a lot more inertia than most other vehicles, and have a much lower change in velocity in an accident.
@@carultch Thanks 😊
How about we cut the pay of the superintendents to pay for this?
If I ran a school system I would want a back up generator in the school bus just in case.
Some of the electric buses have an optional diesel engine for the heater.
I grew up taking a diesel powered school bus to school and was bullied on it. We live in such a sensitive generation now it's crazy.
Congratulations! You just won a lifetime supply of oil!
I think electric school bus is great. It's just a little hazard because it's quite and these days kids have headphones on and will not be aware of surroundings. Maybe put a speaker outside to mimic engine noise ??
DOT mandates this on all EVs to make a artificial noise when reversing
One manufacturer already has the bus programmed to play music below 15 MPH. The kids hate it. It drives everyone crazy.
Neat but I have a question. Why is a race to electrify these buses? They run twice a day.
everyone is woke in California , they want things now now now!
it has been proven local air pollution affects children's brain development and adds to increased asthma rates - good enough reason?
I would wait it out just a little bit longer when it comes to school buses. Manufacturers are still figuring out how to build these buses, and most seem like they are doing it the most expensive way possible. Doesn't look like anything innovative like a lot of other electric vehicle companies have done. All they are doing is adding batteries to it. No additional features or safety tech. Even with the program where they were able to purchase the bus for the price of the diesel, the company was just using them to test the bus, as to why they are releasing a version 2 so soon. Wait til costs come down for them just to add batteries, or until something innovative and safer than a normal school bus comes out. And as far as the environment goes, the carbon admissions are most likely higher for constructing a new bus, mining resources for the batteries, and generating power for the grid compared to running diesel. Someone had also mentioned adding solar to the buses which isn't a bad idea as a lot of times these buses can sit over the weekend or over holidays and summer and generate some power, but it uses resources to make panels and it would also be expensive. It just makes no sense for schools to spend this amount of money when most are already poorly funded. And do not raise taxes to fund something that will be 1/3 of the cost in 8-10 years, it's only helping the manufacturers, and allowing them to make bare necessity products. It is also a shame that many school districts will be forced to spend this money due to legislation like the piece in New York. Many other things are far more important for school boards to spend their money on than buses, but now I am sure a much larger portion of their budget will now be tied up in this.
This is cool. A good step forward. The old school buses need to be taken out.
California is begging there residents not to use electricity during the day, in order not to crash the whole electric grid. Where's all this new power coming from?
Electric vehicles are a good thing, but I think that we are pushing them to fast.
@@tira2145 Well, the problem is, this country refuses to put money into infrastructure. They choose to put money into wars and political campaigns. Stop giving money to war profiteers.
@@andrewferrauiolo4618 I agree 100 percent. Our leaders put money in the wrong area's.
That doesn't change the fact that the entire electric grid is maxed out most days. I'm a big fan of new technology like EVs, but if we adopt them to fast, there is a risk of power rationing, which could really stop the use of more EVs.
with or without children inside?
@@mannyechaluce3814 what?
They should totally install solar panels on the roof.
not worth it
On the roof of the school or the bus barn maybe.
Solar panels should be installed over the parking lot at the bus depot. That way they can charge batteries all day long and be tied into the grid. No need to haul them around on the buses
😮😅 meanwhile my kids can't wait to get Harley-Davidsons with no exhaust baffles😂
Just bring back the Trolleybus.
Electric school buses are a really good idea to help push electric vehicles forward. I also think the same would be true for electric delivery trucks. Stuff that's not doing long-range travel and has ample opportunity to charge during off hours. It could also help push charging infrastructure and technology further! I really like this idea!
Shame that America can't move into the current century and use normal service buses for schools. Why spend billions on dedicated buses which can only be used for a few hours of the day for only around 2/3rds of the year. Just invest in normal service buses and local transit agencies can then use those same buses for journeys between school times. And/or, work with local motorcoach operators for them to take on some routes using existing motorcoaches. They can make use of their vehicles 24/7 and can then do hired out between school times.
Scrapping the dedicated fleet of school buses and putting kids on just as safe, normal buses or motorcoaches would likely save billions of pounds each year for American taxpayers. No drop in the quality of the service but it would go a long way towards reducing costs and simultaneously increasing local transit (as the costs for a smaller between school route will be lower as the bus kind of gets subsidised by the school transit) and increasing the amount of motorcoaches so supporting smaller businesses, often with less empty running to/from the route. Everyone wins, no one loses.
Sadly these electric buses don't have a good enough range for all use cases and will need charging ( like the driver said) a couple of times a day. Also, schools may be able to use them for V2G so they get paid to support the electric grid (or the school) with power during the day when plugged in.
@Julian Kazmier explain how my suggestion would cost more money? It's the model which is widely used across Europe to provide more transit at lower cost. Also used by some transit agencies already who run tripper services, just expanding that system en masse
@@UserUCKANAOD8SlYguEhbCkUdlMQ usa is very different and very big residential property is far away from commercial.and you need whole infrastruture trains and metro will cost a lot of money
@@Searchforfulltruth911 what's that got to do with it? I'm not criticising the routes or having dedicated school transport, just saying the type of vehicle used should change to a vehicle which is much more versatile and can be used for other purposes rather than yellow school buses which can only be used for a few hours per day.
When School buses came into use, it was the 1920s and 1930s and most state legislatures were dominated by rural areas (Some States simply refused to redistrict after the 1920 census, for the 1920 Census was the first US Census where more Americans lived in Urban Areas then Rural Areas (The US Congress refused to reallocate Congressional seats after the 1920 Census for the same reason).
Other states had different population in state senate districts, again giving more seats to rural areas then urban areas areas. Between these two most state legislatures were dominated by rural areas, even as more residences lived in urban areas.
This lead to a tendency to give greater weight to rural areas then urban areas and most rural areas needed a cheap way to move children to anf from school, thus the American School bus was invented and forced not only on rural America but Suburban and even Urban America.
In 1964 the US Supreme Court ruled it was a violation of the US Consitution for the states to give more power to voters in rural areas than urban areas and ordered the states to adopt "one man, one vote" rule for every state's legislature.. This took a fee years several states had to write whole new state Consitution to follow the US Supreme Court ruling.
Since 1964 many of the worse parts of the older rural control of state legislatures were ended, but many remain. In Pennsylvania, for example, fuel tax is shared with each county based on oil usage in 1927. Why 1927? most urban residents either walked to and from work or took electric streetcars. Rural electrication would not occur till the 1930s so the biggest use of oil was oil lamps for rural lighting (Urban areas used electricity or natural gas for lighting) and due to the high rural income from 1914 to 1928, the biggest increase in automobile usage was in rural America (in 1927 Stalin sold Soviet wheat to buy industrial goods for his factory, this plus the Dust bowl pushed rural America into the Great Depression two years before the rest of the nation).
Gasoline usage in urban America increased in the 1930s, as oil usage dropped in rural America but the Legislature wanted money to Rural Counties not Urban counties so refused to readjust the distribution formula and to my knowledge still has refused to permit any readjustment to that formula, so Pennsylvania distribute fuel taxes based on oil usage in 1927 not what it is today. It is an example of something done in that time period that affects us to this day.
School bus regulation is still controlled by what was passed pre 1964 with some modifiable then. Rural legislators prefer the way it is, for any changes would be dominated by the needs of Suburban school districts not rural school districts.
There are other examples of state legislatures refusing to make needed changes for the change would end subsidies to rural areas of the state. School bus regulations is one of them.
I like how the green bus costs 420k
It would've been way cooler if they upgraded the other stuff of the bus too, like it make it more modern.
finally a great comment. If you notice the bus is not redesigned, its really a regular bus converted to electrical.
People are so stupid when they ask where does electricity come from? It comes from the sun and wind, it's 100% clean energy and renewable by just leaving the cars outside. Stay hurt with your $15 gas or whatever it costs. Clean electricity is what we living for the modern age
Investing in solar or other ways of energy now is going to save us so much money in the long run.
Why don't you try tell this to the JDM fans. Directly?
Solar and wind have been in development for many decades. Very little applicable purpose has emerged in spite of untold billions spent.
So your fine with children slave's digging up the needed my minerals in Africa? Not in your neighborhood, so it doesn't effect you.
Lithium mining is not green either. Huge environmental damage.
These products are very destructive to mine and definitely not clean or good for the workers who do it.
And most of these resources come from places like China.
This while thing with Russia and gas shows how you can not have important resources to your economy be at the whims of a hostile nation.
They can certainly be a option but they aren't perfect. We need multiple sources. It won't be sunny and windy every day.
And honestly nuclear is the better solution than wind and solar.
Schoolbuses should have went 100% Eletric back in 2000's .
battery prices were too high then but are now around 80% cheaper than 10 years ago but this still makes them 3x the cost of a normal school bus! - it just wouldn't have been viable.
@@markreed9853 I think the 3x thing is a scam - or that can be fixed by scaling. The drivetrain and battery storage should really only be maybe $30k more than the diesel equivalent, given the cost savings by not having a diesel drivetrain and transmission, which isn't free either.
@@andrewdiamond2697 scaling will definitely help but they still need to recover the money spent on R&D, and new factories and processes. It took years before Tesla made a profit.
@@andrewdiamond2697 no, you're looking at least $30,000 per 100Kwh battery pack so with these buses probably got around 400 kWh batteries, there is a $120,000 already.
@@markreed9853 These buses should be able to run about 2 kWh per mile - so at a range of 130 miles, that would be 260 kWh. Battery prices these days are down to about $100 per kWh as raw batteries so that would be $26,000. From there add in another $10k for the drive unit and maybe another $10k for cooling and getting the batteries into a pack format. So now I'm at $46k. Now take credit for a Cummins diesel engine and Allison Transmission and I get to $30k.
A 100 kWh replacement pack from Tesla, already in a pack format, is under $20k. Even if I bought three of these from Tesla and then bought the drive unit and cooling system, at most I would have a $70k difference from the diesel. That's nowhere near the quarter million quoted in this story.
Only problem is the lack of sound pulling up. Kids know they’re there and it’s safer if it’s loud to announce its presence.
Pay attention.
"only problem"??? lmao..... send the kids to go mine the minerals..... thats that 1 solved aye
@@cuninstunt8391 yeah that’s a huge problem
@@cuninstunt8391 Well the kids mine for your phones but you are okay with that.
@@PyroShields why would i be cool with that? aren't you a propa stunt! quite abit bigger them car batterys buddy! go swim in a lithium pool you absolute champ, its OK its an order o7 LMBO
The overall average cost to drive an electric vehicle is extremely low compared to diesel. A diesel engine has an efficiency of about 55%, the rest is wasted as heat and parasitic losses in the gearbox. Electric vehicles have an efficiency of about 75% and have no gear boxes. A passenger car costs about $0.20 per mile, electric car about $0.08 per mile.
Tesla Should Make An Electric School Bus And Coach Bus Because Tesla Is The King Of Electrification
And have complete monopoly to ruin the entire industry?
Yea because it really helps the environment if you make public transport cleaner in a country with almost no public transport, almost no country`s use school busses as they have real public transport.
Better than 20 million cars
To clarify im not trying to dizz electric cars but i rather see more public transport than spending millions on just improving a few school busses usa needs to build/buy more trains trams and busses. this whole car centric lifestyle is killing off the earth.
@@fyou4641 That's true you are right
Panels on the roof of these buses seem to be a no brainer.
1:25 Must be nice to have that type of bus parking!😢😮
Perfect vehicle to remove exhaust on. Also, frequent stops will make regenerative braking useful.
Remove exhaust then watch it burst into flames.Yes, perfect vehicle.
It's problematic.... when people want to do something without first do preparation for that
Good lord, I can't imagine the fossiles used to mine and create the batteries for these monster....🤦♂️
Imagine if the battery catches fire! Can't we build walkable neighbourhoods? Electrification should mean erecting overhead wires on well-used bus, truck and rail routes, not cramming batteries into everything!
At $400k each, I believe Tesla can make a better bus for at a much lower price point. Just look at the semi truck they just unveiled.
Electric buses are cool! The only thing i would add to this is to have a regular drill for students incase there is a thermal runoff in the batteries (batteries catching fire).
Electric school buses are real cool until one blows up. I hope kids aren't' onboard when it happens.
ICE vehicles catch fire way more than electric, it's just FUD spread by the oil industry - there are batteries on planes FFS!!
You guys don’t understand lithium iron phosphate batteries will be the prime source for most of these buses in the next coming years they don’t have thermal run away
In Europe kids take public transport to school but American cities are designed to be car centric. That’s the heart of the problem. I used to teach outside of NYC and would take the same bus as some of my students. The school of 2000 students didn’t have to pay a cent of their own gas guzzling busses.
What happens when the batteries on board catch fire......alot of them are prone to fires
$420,000 for a school bus and Fairfax runs 1000+ hahahaha
The price will go down as volume of busses purchased goes up! 😎
@@carlettesouthern-robert2992 Correct. Very unlikely to go down significantly in the next 20-30 years though.
most EV's need a battery replacment after about 100xxx miles, whats a battery replacment on this cost? probably around 250-300k
@@bt4kings no, 15 years+, 200k+ miles with better battery chemistries now.
Not True, once the costs of manufacturing start coming down (which will be quickly), the savings are cumulative.
In addition, we are investing in the future by not killing the🌏Planet we live on.😊
Also take into consideration the higher paying jobs that we are adding to our communities.
Bottom line: There were also lots of complaints when we humans were transitioning between horse🐴and buggies to the new fangled invention brought to market by Henry Ford, (😁the🚙car). Naysayers, doomsdayers, all lamenting the terrible consequences of creating new and profoundly beneficial transitions.
All the obstacles and challenges CAN and WILL be solved.
Nothing like a challenge for the human mind to overcome.🤸♂️💫🤸♀️
So, just a suggestion. get on the BUS; and, ENJOY the ride! 🚍🌎😄😎
The FUTURE is NOW!!
👋💫
The electrification of daily commuter vehicles could change the world's air pollution issues forever.
School busses race 60-70MPH - they need to be aerodynamic
Wow wow wow wow good Tnx
NIce, but could the power grid deal with all these electric vehicles?
No, it cannot.
It definitely can this is NoVA a fast growing area so the grid is continuously being expanded
Just charge at night.
Yes they can charge them at night. They don't need fastcharging.
If all cars became electric overnight the grid would need 25% more capacity. So no, currently the grid cannot support an all EV fleet. But grid infrastructure can grow at a rate that can meet future demand assuming a transition over the next 10-15 years. The main issue with power generation is peak demand. EV’s can help with that if vehicle to grid (V2G) is adopted.