its funny how both lilly and misanthro can criticize rebecca sugar for not knowing how to right for abusers when it turns out that they are both abusive themselves towards others and don't even realize it
I once had a book editor tell me a character who spent years trapped in a cage was abusive because once in awhile he'd angrily vent about his minor memory gaps and he once threw something at a wall was super abusive and the fix was to make him curl up and bawl instead when he communicated through anger at being wronged not sadness.
I never understood the Lapis hate. She was super rude at times but I can't say she abused Peridot. Maybe Jasper. But they both held Lapis captive... I think the Lapis slander is a clear example of when a show has a realistic depiction of mental illness and the people that claim mental health is important are the same people hating on Lapis, Catra from SPOP, Shinji and Asuka from NGE, even Steven Universe on SUF.
I simply suspect that Lapis potentially abused or at least hurt Peridot as hinted in raising the barn and although she also contributed to the problem by wrapping everything in bubblewrap, but that's it, just this dark potential, this tendency to repeat the cycle.
Man I recall the horrible hot takes people have made on Steven in SUF being "a terrible representation of mental illness". One of my favorites is this one time when someone deadass claimed that Steven getting emotional and nearly crashing the van in "Mr. Universe" was him _actively trying to murder Greg in cold blood._ I was just sitting there like "DID WE WATCH THE SAME SHOW!?" Then again, SUF had a lot of idiots making bad takes--another one claimed that "Homeworld Bound" apparently "revealed that the Diamonds are still committing genocide and slavery" despite the episode explicitly showing the opposite.
@Digicraftmon the Crystal Gem I didn't mean it like that, I meant I wasn't saying YOU were the one accusing Steven of wanting to kill his dad, so you didn't need to say "I know he didn't wanna kill his dad!" in that defensive way.
Admittedly I'm in the camp that Lapis's fall from grace is mainly from under-utilization that keeps development mainly off screen, or the fact that the show simply did not give her enough room or space to really flesh her out sufficiently. This is possibly in part due to her effective confinement to the barn and the show generally being unable to focus on her as many other plot threads at once also had to be resolved. (I especially find this the case with her leaving Peridot behind, something which was clearly massively influential on both Peridot and Lapis's character which got barely any notice or address when the finale came.) I do agree with a lot of what the video states or indicates with regards to her behavior, and that the show does provided a lot that indicates her nature. All the same, I find that she simply didn't get enough, or her full potential as a character wasn't explored, hence why I think she still fell from grace to a certain degree, though it isn't for the reasons this video addresses. I find that even some of the faults people point out from her behavior are actually a product of the show simply being unable to address or fully explore her in this moments to the extent that it needed to.
I’m glad to have another fellow Lapis Lazuli defender to help explain why the Ocean Gem is the way she truly is instead of someone haters can demonize. I have also written my reasons why Lapis does not deserve such unwanted hate back on Deviantart, yet your explanations are more in depth and well elaborated. There is little to nothing on your video I could disagree with you on and I congratulate you for making this.
Thank you so much for making this video ! Plus about the "lapis could have said no" argument : in alone at sea Lapis say no, and Jasper tries to shatter Steven. Now apply this to jailbreak. Jasper tries to manipulate Lapis, Lapis say no Imagin Jasper reaction. She dosen't really give lapis a choice.
How come at the age of 12 I was able to understand that Lapis had mental issues that caused her to do bad things but still wanted to change BUT A BUNCH OF GROWN ASS ADULTS DONT??? I’m 17 right now and looking at these two go on about how lapis is this abusive POS just makes me laugh so much. The mental gymnastics they use to paint her as an abuser just shows how little they know about mental health. Is lapis an innocent angel? No, but she isn’t a horrible person either. Thanks for this video, I really appreciate it
Damn, you’re actually even smarter than I am for figuring that out about Lapis Lazuli as a character, at the age of 12 even, whereas it took me a few years to figure it out in my mid 20s. When I first saw Barn Mates, I just thought Lapis was only pushing things a little bit too far towards Peridot. But nowadays, I not only see her retaliations at the time fully understandable, I almost see them as justifiable as well, especially since Peridot INTERROGATED her under a TYRANNICAL DICTATORSHIP! Yet Lapis haters don’t want any of Peridot’s heinous sins of the past to be exposed out of the excuse that “It’s different now, she’s different”! And my response is; You know who also is different now? Lapis Lazuli herself, especially when she saved Peridot and Bismuth from Monster Steven who was more than eager to MURDER THEM BOTH! Yet still to this day, grown ass adults in the SU fandom will still continue to demonize Lapis Lazuli all because she retaliated. And like you said, Lapis Lazuli’s retaliations are wrong, yet there are legit reasons she committed them due to suffering through traumas the haters love to sweep under the rug.
@@mustachetwirler7617 I see that at 18. I feel Lapis when informing Peridot about the pool was just her telling Peridot she doesn't like water or oceans, and Lapis crushing the tape recorder was because she didn't want Peridot around her. It wasn't nice for her to crush it but the pool thing I think she was just explaining to Peridot, not trying to scare or hurt her there or could be trying to use her trauma and deadpan reactions to make her go away or scare her off.
I always saw the Malachite fusion as an abusive relationship too. The biggest reason why Lapis did what she did was because she wanted to protect Steven.
Almost a year late, but this was a really good analysis. Lapis is one of my favorite characters in Steven Universe too. Although I really wanted to see her get to do more, instead of being in the background. One thing though. The part where you said MisAnthro Pony missed an entire episode of context (Can't Go Back) was wrong. Infact, it's much worse than that. Much later in the video when he's trying to lead into the Rose Quartz/Pink Diamond argument, he says this, "In the episode A Single Pale Rose, Steven returns home after his conflict with Lapis..." Yep, that's right. He acknowledged that Can't Go Back exists but brushed it aside like it was nothing, meanwhile he was able to cover Room for Ruby (an episode he considers a waste of time.) in much greater detail. Just something I'd point out.
the reaction to characters like lapis and catra from spop proves to me that when people say they want complex depictions of traumatized, mentally ill characters in media they don't actually mean it lol. it's "destigmatize mental illness symptoms that aren't romanticized" until they decide they just don't like a character who shows those exact behaviors
catra and lapis both suffered through intense mental truama, but it doesnt exuse them being assholes, it explains why theyre assholes. not liking them is not thinking what they did was unreasonable. I didnt like either of them for a long time but I never thought that they had no reason to do what they did. Also a lot of people ended up liking Catra after the show ended because she was redeemed and started working on her issues. Lapis stayed a dick througout the entire series and never redeemed herself and thats why alot of people didnt like her. (also btw Catra wasnt really supposed to be likeable in he first few seasons, she was just supposed to be sympathetic). No hate on you though, you brought up a valid point, I just dont think it applies here! Also sorry for my poor grammar, english is not my first language.
@@elsal1353 Actually, as I touch on in the video, Lapis does redeem herself through saving the gems from Blue Diamond, confronting her trauma head-on in Reunited and, in the Change Your Mind Arc when she fights along the rest of the gems against White Diamond. (Also Why So Blue from Future where we see her changes)
@@FreezingClimber but she never admitted to having done something wrong. She just improved herself without ever acknowledging how badly she treated others. But now I understand better where you were comming from!
@@elsal1353 Bruh, peridot did the same with lapis, since she interrogated/tortured lapis too, but she never acknowledges this in any way possible, lapis suffered a lot, and didn't do that much of bad Things, the show just didn't handle her character in a better way. Her relationship with the crystal gems, her old and new traumas, her relationship with one of her other captors/peridot, nothing was actually well developed, and the show made lapis look in the wrong for not wanting to associate with a former abuser/captor that was peridot, and just rush their relationship in an idiot manner.
That whole thing with people expecting more than a simple 'hey' when Lapis returns is a common problem I see so much with many people. Whenever it comes to something, be it a show, book, or character that they don't like, suddenly, they don't get subtle hints. They need everything in-your-face or spoon-fed to them otherwise they don't notice it. It's like the Hazbin Hotel detractors who think Angel Dust has no chance of redeeming himself because those little moments where he shows a sliver of humanity within him apparently weren't good enough. No, we needed a whole minute or so of that, because, again, subtlety and baby steps are bad... unless they're featured in works these people like.
You are certainly correct there, many Lapis Lazuli haters are overgrown infants that need to be spoon feed with the most obvious in-your-face proof of a trauma victim making amends.
never understood how ppl could hate lapis writing for acting kinda weirr when peri was mean to her and she was broken for years in mirror and malachite. its ok to have flawed characters
Man you speak my language about Lapis and you made sure to give her justice. I wish more people were more understanding about Lapis’s character and about the abuser thing. The only thing I wish that I saw from Lapis is her interacting more with Peridot. They interacted a bit more with each other in the comics but still. I don’t think that we saw them interacting a lot in Future which is kinda disappointing in my opinion Edit: For the Lapis and Peridot thing it’s because their friendship began to flourish after the events of Barn Mates and we can see details of this in the comics and when Lapis and Peridot played together for Steven and Amethyst in the episode Kindergarten Beta I believe which shows how much of a influence Peridot has been to Lapis in not being as emo like before. They grew crops at the barn, made meep morps, watch Camp Pinning Hearts, and raised Pumpkin together. It was even said when Peridot was depressed that she spent all of her energy making sure Lapis was happy and she didn’t really have time to focus on herself. When Lapis left earth with the barn, everything they did together as friends suddenly all vanished in the blink of a eye. Peridot’s home, which was Lapis, was now gone ( This is evident when Peridot poofs the corrupted gem and sending it “home” which shows Lapis as the main detail in the screen ). Peridot became depressed because of this which Steven and Amethyst had to help by making Peridot plant some flowers in Kindergarten which was Peridot focusing on herself feeling hopeful and happy again. When Steven finds Lapis on the moon, it’s shown that Lapis is conflicted about the decision she made about flying away from earth. Lapis observed the ones close to her who she misses which are Peridot, Steven, and Pumpkin technically. ( during Lapis’s first song it shows Peridot quite a bit and Lapis sitting with her ). Lapis even asked Steven what Peridot will think or say to her once she comes back home. When Lapis finally returns to earth, we never got to see them talk about what happened due to the diamonds being there. After they reformed we don’t know if they ever talked when heading to Homeworld or during the 2 year time skip after the first show ended or during the events of Future. So now as we know, their relationship is at a blank page and the thing that between them is still unresolved. Anything could happen at this point like Lapidot finally being canon ( which I believe is narratively possible but I ain’t gotta obsess talk about the shipping in this edit comment of mine just the narrative of the relationship of Lapis and Peridot ).
It's because of the he "Alone at Sea" episode where Lapis said "I liked taking out my anger on you. I hated you, I hurt you, it was bad". Because of this line many fans interpreted it as her being the abuser during her time with Jasper, which in turn led the same fans to interpret her relationship with Peridot as Lapis taking out her frustrations on peridot (aka abusing her).
If I see a Lily Orchard or MissAnthropony video whining about a show or character, I'll immediately check it out. If they hate it, then it must be well written with plenty of nuance.
I find it funny how Lily and MAP's opinions are usually based in their own shit life experiences and the characters they dislike are to them reduced to cardboard cutout meanies not worthy of analysis. Lily bitching about Hunter in Owl House in spite of him being abused and gaslight at least AS bad as the characters Lily likes in the show is telling cause she hates him just cause he reminds her of Kylo Ren. MAP bitching about Amber from Invincible hating how her boyfriend constantly says she's important to him and he thinks she's smart while giving her the shittiest lies; yeah, I get her being fed the f up with it. But no, they're just hate sinks and everyone who likes/empathizes with them is a bad person.
I’m only 20 minutes in and I can say that you’ve changed my opinion on lapis as a whole! I feel super dumb about believing those misinterpreted points- will definitely edit this comment once the vid is finished. Edit: Finished the video and my point still stands! If I may, I’d like to bring up something one of your main points made me think about more: Malachite. I realized that Jasper and Lapis (when it comes to Malachite) are two sides of the same coin. Both jasper and lapis experienced trauma and have PTSD, but Jasper deals with it in a different way. Jasper lashes out, emotionally manipulates and is generally very aggressive. This is, imo, a bad coping mechanism for her own trauma and insecurity. She feels like a failure because she was made on earth, and failed to protect pink diamond. She hates herself for failing her purpose, but her grief and self hate is kept heavily under wraps due to not wanting to be seen as weak by being vulnerable. I may be stretching a bit here, I’m not sure, but I like jasper a lot and kinda wanted to open up a dialogue here. I’m curious as to what you think about jasper and If she deserved a redemption (even tho imo, she did deserve one and I’m sad she never got it-) I’ll stop rambling, sorry ^^; just like expressing my opinions and stuff.
That's a completely fair assessment. Jasper DID also used Malachite as a bad coping mechanism, the difference between her and Lapis, however, is that Jasper didn't recognize that the coping mechanism itself was bad and developed a toxic relationship towards power overall. Like, Jasper still sees the destruction caused by Malachite and the suffering that being in Malachite caused her and actively wants to continue it for the sake of power because so much of her insecurities are wrapped in her sense of feeling strong. It's also why she kidnapped corrupted gems and tries to fuse with them.
@@lyrastarstriker7304 If there was ANYTHING I wanted from Future, it was a bigger focus on Jasper, they tried to do that by having Steven tell Jasper to "find something better to do with her life" but it clearly wasn't enough and even a slight interraction with Lapis and Peridot after the events of SU original would've been appreciated.
this video cleared my skin and watered my crops. one technical thing i want to critique, though, is that when you show screenshots, they often aren't shown long enough to pause and read them. it would make for a much better viewing experience if you left the screenshots up for a bit longer. overall though, great lapis analysis!
There is something I noticed about the Jasper-Lapis dynamic. It is most definitely Jasper who is the abuser. She grabbed Lapis before she could fly away, manipulated her to form Malachite but the most prominent example was in the episode Alone at Sea. She begged Lapis to fuse as Malachite again and when Lapis at first mentioned how bad it was Jasper says this "It'll be better this time. I've changed. You've changed me. I'm the only one who can handle your kind of power." That whole quote is classic "come back to me" from the abuser to their victim who has tried to escape them. Abusers use this type of speech to manipulate their victims to come back and those who say that Lapis was actually the abuser, they need to remember that she went through a whole lot of trauma, especially with the war and Malachite so of course she's either going to lash out or run away because she doesn't want to be hurt again. That's what real life people who have been traumatized do.
Exactly. It's so victim-blamey to claim that the relationship was "mutually abusive" (which, 99% of the time, those claims are bullshit anyways) or that Lapis was somehow the abuser. It's pretty clear which people haven't even done basic research on red flags in an abuser let alone been in an abusive relationship themselves. Lashing out at your abuser does NOT make you as bad as them. It will NEVER make you as bad as them. People who try and guilt trip others into thinking there has to be a "model victim" or that victims of abuse cannot defend themselves physically by overpowering their abuser is fucking DISGUSTING. Victims of DV ARE KILLED because narratives like these are so commonly spread around. That makes the people who are shaming the victims for putting up a fight almost as bad as the abusers themselves. I hope they realize they're coating their hands with innocent blood by perpetuating these disgusting, toxic, victim-blaming narratives. Their way of thinking will only create more abusers rather than promote any kind of positive change. Anyway, rant over. I just needed someplace to gather my thoughts, so I apologize if I made it seem like I was dragging you through the mud as well, OP. I just want to clarify that I am completely on your side. Lapis is completely innocent in this whole abuse debacle. Taking power back from an abuser is never a bad thing. Be very wary of anyone who says otherwise, because they are NOT looking out for your best interests, they only want to justify hurting others without facing any consequences for it.
@@paigemosher8697 nah you're good. Having grown up in a verbally abusive home and taking this subject seriously, it just frustrates me when people say they are advocates for DV but don't seem to really understand what it can do to the victim mentally and emotionally. I myself still have moments where I become too afraid to stand up for myself or even say what I want to say because of that. So no worries, glad to hear we have the same thoughts.
I don’t understand how everyone loves jasper but hates lapis? Like jasper is way worse, yes lapis did things but she was getting better with the help of Steven. Jasper just stayed angry and mean.
From what I've seen (and correct me if this isn't the case) but a lot of it involves fan speculation and building on Jasper's character even though not much is shown of her. This is because so little of her is actually revealed, that projection onto Jasper is relatively easier. I think from as early as Malachite, people have been picturing a redemption arc for Jasper involving her living with the Watermelon Stevens as well as her dealing with the trauma of her experiences that we don't really get to have a good insight into in the series.
@@FreezingClimber i agree with those points too, I was expecting it too.p cause of those reasons. I never really expect it from character who are “evil” or “not good” but the way they made it seem later on in the Smokey quartz episode that she might. The fans wanted it more even after that, it’s like a plot hole in her character development? But I always understood lapis on a personal level so I never really saw much wrong with her character and was happy she got better, it was realistic. I remember way back when, when sliceofotaku did a video on lapis he also sided with jasper too and said lapis was wrong for acting the way she did to jasper.
@@mushroomfiction1250 one reasons is lapis is the more smaller feminine gems and jasper is big and intimidating and some people saw it as stereotypical.
I do think Lapis could have been written better. I really wanted an episode about her dealing with the fact that she's angry with the crystal gems for never letting her out of the mirror, but she seems totally fine around them after besides one comment at the table in gem harvest. I do not see her as an abuser. I see someone who is angry. Someone who was taken advantage of by both sides of the war. The only one who cared for her was Steven. Jasper practically forced her to fuse. While yes, she saw it as a chance to take her anger out on Jasper, I also always saw it as her trying to protect Steven. Her line "just let me do this for you!" in Chille Tid makes this apparent. She had a part to play in their toxic relationship, but it was one she was forced into, and once unfused, despite the fact that she misses Jasper, she acknowledges how awful the relationship was and wanted to end it. That is still less abusive than the one who wants to keep the pain going. People are not perfect. She made the right decision when getting away from Jasper, and she did what she could in Jailbreak. Barn Mates is not Lapis being abusive towards Peridot. Actively trying to push someone to be with the person that had a hand in their abuse is wrong. They had good intentions and Peridot doesn't think emotionally like Lapis does, but it doesn't matter. Lapis has every right to not be around her even after she's changed after what she was put through. It was wrong of Lapis to break her tape recorder, but after being pestered all day by the person who hurt you would probably make you lash out, and she still saved Peridot after all of that. Lapis was by no means written perfectly. She needed a few more episodes to show about her and deal with her issues, but unfortunately due to us being locked the Steven all the time, we never got that unless Steven was there. She wasn't an abuser. She was just trying her best after everything she went through. I will continue loving and cuddling my Lapis plush until I die.
I still think that Lapis was trying to inflict her pain onto someone else, to rise against her capture, but it's one of the 2 reasons she did it, the other, being to save Steven from danger.
I really like your discussion here and proper in context material. In future, we get to see Lapis Lazuli heal and show personal growth/self control. So she healed in the end.
Peridot tried to kill Steven, the gems, and the earth multiple times and tried to snitch on them to Yellow Diamond because she was indoctrinated or think that it’s the morally righteous thing to do in the name of Homeworld. But she was called out for it and given at least some consequences, eventually leading to her redemption; her transformation into the best gem in the fucking show!
Another misconception is that The Diamonds are redeemed when they’re actually not as said in Toon Ruins video. It rather sounds complicated if you ask me.
First time watching this right now. And I gotta say I love you took inspiration for my thumbnail I did for Zaid(MisAnthro Pony) very creative and cool!
Lapis wouldn’t tell Steven that she abused Jasper to destructively cope with her trauma, because of her low esteem and fear of Steven hating her. I still think that they both abused each other, or at least she hurt Jasper back for abusing her.
My biggest issue with this video is that you are giving extremely realistic explanations and acting like Steven Universe's Writing is complex enough for that. When as much as I adore this show and agree with you on some point. The way the show is written and every other character arc is done isn't that complex
I feel like the reason why it seems to “complex” is because the two critics fail to understand something that isn’t hard to really get so they have to explain it to them
@@smolderiing7166 Yeah I agree the two critics aren't very smart but my point is that trying to explain inconsistent character writing by using extremely real examples of PTSD recovery when the show never has any other issue the show has isn't done nearly as complex
Yeah they did, because forced fusions are not fully revived, it’s not like they fully brought a character back, they’re broken segments of code melted together, it’s like the amalgamâtes form the true lab in Undertale.
@@FreezingClimber To let you know, Cartoonshi didn't made his SUF videos because he hated Steven Universe (He used to be a fan of the show). He made it because he was disappointed in Future. I thought he made great points about Future. I don't hate Future (I really like Future in fact), but I don't think it's good.
I remember when I got into an argument with an SU Critical and they spent the entire latter half of the argument saying things like "Well, go watch Cartoonshi and Sarcastic Chorus' videos", "Have you watched their videos yet?" "Have you seen their videos?" And eventually I was like "Why do you keep telling me to watch those videos?" and their response was basically "Because both of them agreed that Steven Universe Future's finale was bad."
@@CJCroen1393 Tbh, I think SUF's finale wasn't great either. One of Future's biggest problems is that the things they are trying to do aren't given enough time to develop and that the things it does give time to develop is poorly handed. And yeah, that SU Critical guy didn't do a good job arguing. I do like Cartoonshi's and Sarcastic Chorus's videos on Future, but I won't use those for my arguments.
I used to ship Lapidot but these people got me to fear for Peridot, who still tried to wrap Lapis in bubble wrap in an attempt to not trigger her trauma. Or at least that’s what her lying to Lapis to not upset her implied.
its funny how both lilly and misanthro can criticize rebecca sugar for not knowing how to right for abusers when it turns out that they are both abusive themselves towards others and don't even realize it
Unhinged sociopaths when someone has a realistic response to experiencing nothing but trauma.
I once had a book editor tell me a character who spent years trapped in a cage was abusive because once in awhile he'd angrily vent about his minor memory gaps and he once threw something at a wall was super abusive and the fix was to make him curl up and bawl instead when he communicated through anger at being wronged not sadness.
I never understood the Lapis hate. She was super rude at times but I can't say she abused Peridot. Maybe Jasper. But they both held Lapis captive...
I think the Lapis slander is a clear example of when a show has a realistic depiction of mental illness and the people that claim mental health is important are the same people hating on Lapis, Catra from SPOP, Shinji and Asuka from NGE, even Steven Universe on SUF.
I simply suspect that Lapis potentially abused or at least hurt Peridot as hinted in raising the barn and although she also contributed to the problem by wrapping everything in bubblewrap, but that's it, just this dark potential, this tendency to repeat the cycle.
Man I recall the horrible hot takes people have made on Steven in SUF being "a terrible representation of mental illness". One of my favorites is this one time when someone deadass claimed that Steven getting emotional and nearly crashing the van in "Mr. Universe" was him _actively trying to murder Greg in cold blood._ I was just sitting there like "DID WE WATCH THE SAME SHOW!?"
Then again, SUF had a lot of idiots making bad takes--another one claimed that "Homeworld Bound" apparently "revealed that the Diamonds are still committing genocide and slavery" despite the episode explicitly showing the opposite.
@Digicraftmon the Crystal Gem 'Kay. I wasn't accusing you specifically of saying that and I disagree with that opinion but okay.
@Digicraftmon the Crystal Gem I didn't mean it like that, I meant I wasn't saying YOU were the one accusing Steven of wanting to kill his dad, so you didn't need to say "I know he didn't wanna kill his dad!" in that defensive way.
I understand
Admittedly I'm in the camp that Lapis's fall from grace is mainly from under-utilization that keeps development mainly off screen, or the fact that the show simply did not give her enough room or space to really flesh her out sufficiently. This is possibly in part due to her effective confinement to the barn and the show generally being unable to focus on her as many other plot threads at once also had to be resolved. (I especially find this the case with her leaving Peridot behind, something which was clearly massively influential on both Peridot and Lapis's character which got barely any notice or address when the finale came.) I do agree with a lot of what the video states or indicates with regards to her behavior, and that the show does provided a lot that indicates her nature. All the same, I find that she simply didn't get enough, or her full potential as a character wasn't explored, hence why I think she still fell from grace to a certain degree, though it isn't for the reasons this video addresses. I find that even some of the faults people point out from her behavior are actually a product of the show simply being unable to address or fully explore her in this moments to the extent that it needed to.
CN shouldn't have cancelled the show.
I’m glad to have another fellow Lapis Lazuli defender to help explain why the Ocean Gem is the way she truly is instead of someone haters can demonize. I have also written my reasons why Lapis does not deserve such unwanted hate back on Deviantart, yet your explanations are more in depth and well elaborated. There is little to nothing on your video I could disagree with you on and I congratulate you for making this.
Thank you so much for making this video !
Plus about the "lapis could have said no" argument :
in alone at sea Lapis say no, and Jasper tries to shatter Steven.
Now apply this to jailbreak.
Jasper tries to manipulate Lapis,
Lapis say no
Imagin Jasper reaction.
She dosen't really give lapis a choice.
How come at the age of 12 I was able to understand that Lapis had mental issues that caused her to do bad things but still wanted to change BUT A BUNCH OF GROWN ASS ADULTS DONT???
I’m 17 right now and looking at these two go on about how lapis is this abusive POS just makes me laugh so much. The mental gymnastics they use to paint her as an abuser just shows how little they know about mental health.
Is lapis an innocent angel? No, but she isn’t a horrible person either.
Thanks for this video, I really appreciate it
Damn, you’re actually even smarter than I am for figuring that out about Lapis Lazuli as a character, at the age of 12 even, whereas it took me a few years to figure it out in my mid 20s.
When I first saw Barn Mates, I just thought Lapis was only pushing things a little bit too far towards Peridot. But nowadays, I not only see her retaliations at the time fully understandable, I almost see them as justifiable as well, especially since Peridot INTERROGATED her under a TYRANNICAL DICTATORSHIP!
Yet Lapis haters don’t want any of Peridot’s heinous sins of the past to be exposed out of the excuse that “It’s different now, she’s different”!
And my response is;
You know who also is different now? Lapis Lazuli herself, especially when she saved Peridot and Bismuth from Monster Steven who was more than eager to MURDER THEM BOTH!
Yet still to this day, grown ass adults in the SU fandom will still continue to demonize Lapis Lazuli all because she retaliated.
And like you said, Lapis Lazuli’s retaliations are wrong, yet there are legit reasons she committed them due to suffering through traumas the haters love to sweep under the rug.
@@mustachetwirler7617 I see that at 18. I feel Lapis when informing Peridot about the pool was just her telling Peridot she doesn't like water or oceans, and Lapis crushing the tape recorder was because she didn't want Peridot around her. It wasn't nice for her to crush it but the pool thing I think she was just explaining to Peridot, not trying to scare or hurt her there or could be trying to use her trauma and deadpan reactions to make her go away or scare her off.
I always saw the Malachite fusion as an abusive relationship too. The biggest reason why Lapis did what she did was because she wanted to protect Steven.
Yes
That's one of her 2 reasons, and it's the selfless one, the selfish one is that she wanted to take her trauma out on someone.
Almost a year late, but this was a really good analysis. Lapis is one of my favorite characters in Steven Universe too. Although I really wanted to see her get to do more, instead of being in the background. One thing though. The part where you said MisAnthro Pony missed an entire episode of context (Can't Go Back) was wrong. Infact, it's much worse than that. Much later in the video when he's trying to lead into the Rose Quartz/Pink Diamond argument, he says this, "In the episode A Single Pale Rose, Steven returns home after his conflict with Lapis..." Yep, that's right. He acknowledged that Can't Go Back exists but brushed it aside like it was nothing, meanwhile he was able to cover Room for Ruby (an episode he considers a waste of time.) in much greater detail. Just something I'd point out.
the reaction to characters like lapis and catra from spop proves to me that when people say they want complex depictions of traumatized, mentally ill characters in media they don't actually mean it lol. it's "destigmatize mental illness symptoms that aren't romanticized" until they decide they just don't like a character who shows those exact behaviors
catra and lapis both suffered through intense mental truama, but it doesnt exuse them being assholes, it explains why theyre assholes. not liking them is not thinking what they did was unreasonable. I didnt like either of them for a long time but I never thought that they had no reason to do what they did. Also a lot of people ended up liking Catra after the show ended because she was redeemed and started working on her issues. Lapis stayed a dick througout the entire series and never redeemed herself and thats why alot of people didnt like her. (also btw Catra wasnt really supposed to be likeable in he first few seasons, she was just supposed to be sympathetic). No hate on you though, you brought up a valid point, I just dont think it applies here! Also sorry for my poor grammar, english is not my first language.
@@elsal1353 Actually, as I touch on in the video, Lapis does redeem herself through saving the gems from Blue Diamond, confronting her trauma head-on in Reunited and, in the Change Your Mind Arc when she fights along the rest of the gems against White Diamond. (Also Why So Blue from Future where we see her changes)
@@FreezingClimber but she never admitted to having done something wrong. She just improved herself without ever acknowledging how badly she treated others. But now I understand better where you were comming from!
@@elsal1353 Bruh, peridot did the same with lapis, since she interrogated/tortured lapis too, but she never acknowledges this in any way possible, lapis suffered a lot, and didn't do that much of bad Things, the show just didn't handle her character in a better way. Her relationship with the crystal gems, her old and new traumas, her relationship with one of her other captors/peridot, nothing was actually well developed, and the show made lapis look in the wrong for not wanting to associate with a former abuser/captor that was peridot, and just rush their relationship in an idiot manner.
Sums it up, people are the exact same way with Alphys from Undertale.
That whole thing with people expecting more than a simple 'hey' when Lapis returns is a common problem I see so much with many people. Whenever it comes to something, be it a show, book, or character that they don't like, suddenly, they don't get subtle hints. They need everything in-your-face or spoon-fed to them otherwise they don't notice it. It's like the Hazbin Hotel detractors who think Angel Dust has no chance of redeeming himself because those little moments where he shows a sliver of humanity within him apparently weren't good enough. No, we needed a whole minute or so of that, because, again, subtlety and baby steps are bad... unless they're featured in works these people like.
Honestly I see that all the time, specifically in the warrior cats community :/ it's so annoying
You are certainly correct there, many Lapis Lazuli haters are overgrown infants that need to be spoon feed with the most obvious in-your-face proof of a trauma victim making amends.
I don't understand why people hate subtlety.
never understood how ppl could hate lapis writing for acting kinda weirr when peri was mean to her and she was broken for years in mirror and malachite. its ok to have flawed characters
Man you speak my language about Lapis and you made sure to give her justice. I wish more
people were more understanding about Lapis’s character and about the abuser thing. The only thing I wish that I saw from Lapis is her interacting more with Peridot. They interacted a bit more with each other in the comics but still. I don’t think that we saw them interacting a lot in Future which is kinda disappointing in my opinion
Edit: For the Lapis and Peridot thing it’s because their friendship began to flourish after the events of Barn Mates and we can see details of this in the comics and when Lapis and Peridot played together for Steven and Amethyst in the episode Kindergarten Beta I believe which shows how much of a influence Peridot has been to Lapis in not being as emo like before. They grew crops at the barn, made meep morps, watch Camp Pinning Hearts, and raised Pumpkin together. It was even said when Peridot was depressed that she spent all of her energy making sure Lapis was happy and she didn’t really have time to focus on herself. When Lapis left earth with the barn, everything they did together as friends suddenly all vanished in the blink of a eye. Peridot’s home, which was Lapis, was now gone ( This is evident when Peridot poofs the corrupted gem and sending it “home” which shows Lapis as the main detail in the screen ). Peridot became depressed because of this which Steven and Amethyst had to help by making Peridot plant some flowers in Kindergarten which was Peridot focusing on herself feeling hopeful and happy again. When Steven finds Lapis on the moon, it’s shown that Lapis is conflicted about the decision she made about flying away from earth. Lapis observed the ones close to her who she misses which are Peridot, Steven, and Pumpkin technically. ( during Lapis’s first song it shows Peridot quite a bit and Lapis sitting with her ). Lapis even asked Steven what Peridot will think or say to her once she comes back home. When Lapis finally returns to earth, we never got to see them talk about what happened due to the diamonds being there. After they reformed we don’t know if they ever talked when heading to Homeworld or during the 2 year time skip after the first show ended or during the events of Future. So now as we know, their relationship is at a blank page and the thing that between them is still unresolved. Anything could happen at this point like Lapidot finally being canon ( which I believe is narratively possible but I ain’t gotta obsess talk about the shipping in this edit comment of mine just the narrative of the relationship of Lapis and Peridot ).
It's because of the he "Alone at Sea" episode where Lapis said "I liked taking out my anger on you. I hated you, I hurt you, it was bad". Because of this line many fans interpreted it as her being the abuser during her time with Jasper, which in turn led the same fans to interpret her relationship with Peridot as Lapis taking out her frustrations on peridot (aka abusing her).
If I see a Lily Orchard or MissAnthropony video whining about a show or character, I'll immediately check it out. If they hate it, then it must be well written with plenty of nuance.
You're joking, right?
@@unknownbystander8145 Nope. I discovered some of my favourite series using this method.
I find it funny how Lily and MAP's opinions are usually based in their own shit life experiences and the characters they dislike are to them reduced to cardboard cutout meanies not worthy of analysis. Lily bitching about Hunter in Owl House in spite of him being abused and gaslight at least AS bad as the characters Lily likes in the show is telling cause she hates him just cause he reminds her of Kylo Ren. MAP bitching about Amber from Invincible hating how her boyfriend constantly says she's important to him and he thinks she's smart while giving her the shittiest lies; yeah, I get her being fed the f up with it. But no, they're just hate sinks and everyone who likes/empathizes with them is a bad person.
I’m only 20 minutes in and I can say that you’ve changed my opinion on lapis as a whole! I feel super dumb about believing those misinterpreted points- will definitely edit this comment once the vid is finished.
Edit: Finished the video and my point still stands! If I may, I’d like to bring up something one of your main points made me think about more: Malachite. I realized that Jasper and Lapis (when it comes to Malachite) are two sides of the same coin. Both jasper and lapis experienced trauma and have PTSD, but Jasper deals with it in a different way. Jasper lashes out, emotionally manipulates and is generally very aggressive. This is, imo, a bad coping mechanism for her own trauma and insecurity. She feels like a failure because she was made on earth, and failed to protect pink diamond. She hates herself for failing her purpose, but her grief and self hate is kept heavily under wraps due to not wanting to be seen as weak by being vulnerable. I may be stretching a bit here, I’m not sure, but I like jasper a lot and kinda wanted to open up a dialogue here. I’m curious as to what you think about jasper and If she deserved a redemption (even tho imo, she did deserve one and I’m sad she never got it-) I’ll stop rambling, sorry ^^; just like expressing my opinions and stuff.
That's a completely fair assessment. Jasper DID also used Malachite as a bad coping mechanism, the difference between her and Lapis, however, is that Jasper didn't recognize that the coping mechanism itself was bad and developed a toxic relationship towards power overall. Like, Jasper still sees the destruction caused by Malachite and the suffering that being in Malachite caused her and actively wants to continue it for the sake of power because so much of her insecurities are wrapped in her sense of feeling strong. It's also why she kidnapped corrupted gems and tries to fuse with them.
@@FreezingClimber True, true! I kinda wish Jasper was given more development and screentime so she could heal and grow like lapis did.
@@lyrastarstriker7304 If there was ANYTHING I wanted from Future, it was a bigger focus on Jasper, they tried to do that by having Steven tell Jasper to "find something better to do with her life" but it clearly wasn't enough and even a slight interraction with Lapis and Peridot after the events of SU original would've been appreciated.
@@FreezingClimber Her reaction when he said that crushed me- like ‘oop. I smell wasted potential’
@@FreezingClimber Future was rushed in general
this video cleared my skin and watered my crops. one technical thing i want to critique, though, is that when you show screenshots, they often aren't shown long enough to pause and read them. it would make for a much better viewing experience if you left the screenshots up for a bit longer. overall though, great lapis analysis!
*[Lapis deserved WAY MORE]*
We're are you allied to
There is something I noticed about the Jasper-Lapis dynamic. It is most definitely Jasper who is the abuser. She grabbed Lapis before she could fly away, manipulated her to form Malachite but the most prominent example was in the episode Alone at Sea. She begged Lapis to fuse as Malachite again and when Lapis at first mentioned how bad it was Jasper says this "It'll be better this time. I've changed. You've changed me. I'm the only one who can handle your kind of power." That whole quote is classic "come back to me" from the abuser to their victim who has tried to escape them. Abusers use this type of speech to manipulate their victims to come back and those who say that Lapis was actually the abuser, they need to remember that she went through a whole lot of trauma, especially with the war and Malachite so of course she's either going to lash out or run away because she doesn't want to be hurt again. That's what real life people who have been traumatized do.
Exactly. It's so victim-blamey to claim that the relationship was "mutually abusive" (which, 99% of the time, those claims are bullshit anyways) or that Lapis was somehow the abuser. It's pretty clear which people haven't even done basic research on red flags in an abuser let alone been in an abusive relationship themselves. Lashing out at your abuser does NOT make you as bad as them. It will NEVER make you as bad as them. People who try and guilt trip others into thinking there has to be a "model victim" or that victims of abuse cannot defend themselves physically by overpowering their abuser is fucking DISGUSTING. Victims of DV ARE KILLED because narratives like these are so commonly spread around. That makes the people who are shaming the victims for putting up a fight almost as bad as the abusers themselves. I hope they realize they're coating their hands with innocent blood by perpetuating these disgusting, toxic, victim-blaming narratives. Their way of thinking will only create more abusers rather than promote any kind of positive change.
Anyway, rant over. I just needed someplace to gather my thoughts, so I apologize if I made it seem like I was dragging you through the mud as well, OP. I just want to clarify that I am completely on your side. Lapis is completely innocent in this whole abuse debacle. Taking power back from an abuser is never a bad thing. Be very wary of anyone who says otherwise, because they are NOT looking out for your best interests, they only want to justify hurting others without facing any consequences for it.
@@paigemosher8697 nah you're good. Having grown up in a verbally abusive home and taking this subject seriously, it just frustrates me when people say they are advocates for DV but don't seem to really understand what it can do to the victim mentally and emotionally. I myself still have moments where I become too afraid to stand up for myself or even say what I want to say because of that. So no worries, glad to hear we have the same thoughts.
I don’t understand how everyone loves jasper but hates lapis? Like jasper is way worse, yes lapis did things but she was getting better with the help of Steven. Jasper just stayed angry and mean.
From what I've seen (and correct me if this isn't the case) but a lot of it involves fan speculation and building on Jasper's character even though not much is shown of her. This is because so little of her is actually revealed, that projection onto Jasper is relatively easier. I think from as early as Malachite, people have been picturing a redemption arc for Jasper involving her living with the Watermelon Stevens as well as her dealing with the trauma of her experiences that we don't really get to have a good insight into in the series.
@@FreezingClimber i agree with those points too, I was expecting it too.p cause of those reasons. I never really expect it from character who are “evil” or “not good” but the way they made it seem later on in the Smokey quartz episode that she might. The fans wanted it more even after that, it’s like a plot hole in her character development? But I always understood lapis on a personal level so I never really saw much wrong with her character and was happy she got better, it was realistic. I remember way back when, when sliceofotaku did a video on lapis he also sided with jasper too and said lapis was wrong for acting the way she did to jasper.
@@mushroomfiction1250 one reasons is lapis is the more smaller feminine gems and jasper is big and intimidating and some people saw it as stereotypical.
@@greendecepticon6148 what do you mean by stereotypical? Sorry am a bit confused in a way.
@@mushroomfiction1250 you know what stereotype mean correct? Not being mean just want to ask before I continue.
This video is such a nice change of pace from all the recent SU rants
I do think Lapis could have been written better. I really wanted an episode about her dealing with the fact that she's angry with the crystal gems for never letting her out of the mirror, but she seems totally fine around them after besides one comment at the table in gem harvest. I do not see her as an abuser. I see someone who is angry. Someone who was taken advantage of by both sides of the war. The only one who cared for her was Steven. Jasper practically forced her to fuse. While yes, she saw it as a chance to take her anger out on Jasper, I also always saw it as her trying to protect Steven. Her line "just let me do this for you!" in Chille Tid makes this apparent. She had a part to play in their toxic relationship, but it was one she was forced into, and once unfused, despite the fact that she misses Jasper, she acknowledges how awful the relationship was and wanted to end it. That is still less abusive than the one who wants to keep the pain going. People are not perfect. She made the right decision when getting away from Jasper, and she did what she could in Jailbreak.
Barn Mates is not Lapis being abusive towards Peridot. Actively trying to push someone to be with the person that had a hand in their abuse is wrong. They had good intentions and Peridot doesn't think emotionally like Lapis does, but it doesn't matter. Lapis has every right to not be around her even after she's changed after what she was put through. It was wrong of Lapis to break her tape recorder, but after being pestered all day by the person who hurt you would probably make you lash out, and she still saved Peridot after all of that.
Lapis was by no means written perfectly. She needed a few more episodes to show about her and deal with her issues, but unfortunately due to us being locked the Steven all the time, we never got that unless Steven was there. She wasn't an abuser. She was just trying her best after everything she went through. I will continue loving and cuddling my Lapis plush until I die.
I still think that Lapis was trying to inflict her pain onto someone else, to rise against her capture, but it's one of the 2 reasons she did it, the other, being to save Steven from danger.
I really like your discussion here and proper in context material. In future, we get to see Lapis Lazuli heal and show personal growth/self control. So she healed in the end.
Peridot tried to kill Steven, the gems, and the earth multiple times and tried to snitch on them to Yellow Diamond because she was indoctrinated or think that it’s the morally righteous thing to do in the name of Homeworld. But she was called out for it and given at least some consequences, eventually leading to her redemption; her transformation into the best gem in the fucking show!
Another misconception is that The Diamonds are redeemed when they’re actually not as said in Toon Ruins video. It rather sounds complicated if you ask me.
1:16:22 that was just blatant plagiarism, down to lapis' hey being reqeated for no reason
First time watching this right now. And I gotta say I love you took inspiration for my thumbnail I did for Zaid(MisAnthro Pony) very creative and cool!
Even the fact the barn belongs to Andy and not Peridot's stuff
I'm surprised nobody hates Peridot for her actions and misinterpreting her character.
love the new icons for your avatar they look really alive
13:14
I found that line/quip funny
This video heals my soul
Lapis wouldn’t tell Steven that she abused Jasper to destructively cope with her trauma, because of her low esteem and fear of Steven hating her.
I still think that they both abused each other, or at least she hurt Jasper back for abusing her.
You decided to speak with the truth👏👏👏👏👏👏, lapis is such a deep and great character and i really like how you make it not just black and white.
My biggest issue with this video is that you are giving extremely realistic explanations and acting like Steven Universe's Writing is complex enough for that. When as much as I adore this show and agree with you on some point. The way the show is written and every other character arc is done isn't that complex
I feel like the reason why it seems to “complex” is because the two critics fail to understand something that isn’t hard to really get so they have to explain it to them
@@smolderiing7166 Yeah I agree the two critics aren't very smart but my point is that trying to explain inconsistent character writing by using extremely real examples of PTSD recovery when the show never has any other issue the show has isn't done nearly as complex
And finally the crewniverse didn't redconned shattering because of the
existence of force fusions
Say what now?
Yeah they did, because forced fusions are not fully revived, it’s not like they fully brought a character back, they’re broken segments of code melted together, it’s like the amalgamâtes form the true lab in Undertale.
@@Barakon What if all the parts of a shattered gem being together can revive them, I mean why would the cluster shards want to find their shards
1:05:28 🎵 emotional fallacy 🎶
Freezing Climber the Quezon of response
Are you a danganronpa fan?
I love this video.
2:49 Flaws Amethyst Garnet are
Pearl not
Why did Peri feel like she had to lie?
Thanks for trying to give Lapidot a chance.
Hey have you seen the videos on steven universe future from cartoonish .
If you mean cartoonshi, then no. They don't look too great though.
Hhhhhmmm
@@FreezingClimber To let you know, Cartoonshi didn't made his SUF videos because he hated Steven Universe (He used to be a fan of the show). He made it because he was disappointed in Future. I thought he made great points about Future. I don't hate Future (I really like Future in fact), but I don't think it's good.
I remember when I got into an argument with an SU Critical and they spent the entire latter half of the argument saying things like "Well, go watch Cartoonshi and Sarcastic Chorus' videos", "Have you watched their videos yet?" "Have you seen their videos?" And eventually I was like "Why do you keep telling me to watch those videos?" and their response was basically "Because both of them agreed that Steven Universe Future's finale was bad."
@@CJCroen1393 Tbh, I think SUF's finale wasn't great either. One of Future's biggest problems is that the things they are trying to do aren't given enough time to develop and that the things it does give time to develop is poorly handed. And yeah, that SU Critical guy didn't do a good job arguing. I do like Cartoonshi's and Sarcastic Chorus's videos on Future, but I won't use those for my arguments.
And also those comments are my reactions
Because I'm failed
Quality arguments 👌🏼
Need more evidence, bac to see
@@lingo4770 huh
This video is an hour and a half long. Didn’t expect that from someone who defends Steven Universe.
Maybe you can defend the series in general.
No
@@TheFunnyGuy9000 tho possibly OG series but not future for obivous reasons
48:41 Because of Punkin
44:04 But what if it turns to navy chase seen she's lame and boring
and I hate TRATORS
52:41 Nani a'm losing my winning
21:17 Don't Blaine MisAntro but the
Lapidot shippers and thinking that
it's okay but not
I used to ship Lapidot but these people got me to fear for Peridot, who still tried to wrap Lapis in bubble wrap in an attempt to not trigger her trauma.
Or at least that’s what her lying to Lapis to not upset her implied.
1:09:37 Another Lapis
56:45 Wrrryyyyyy
58:05 Best part
56:01 NANiiiii!
14:01 Yeah but still the same
19:27 Thanks
41:33 Ah shit here we go again
1:05:12 Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
1:15:01
Nooooo
But since suf sucks like hell, a better set of instrumentals would do well for why so blue.