@@Ragovski Yes, now the Raging affix does "only" give CC immunity. But having CC Immunity on a mob that enrage itself or if there's other mobs that are cc immune that buffs other cc immune targets means it does Tons of dmg to the tank and possibly to the entire group if a particular mob happen to have an AoE nuke ability, like the Golem type mobs in Uldaman as an example.
I don't think people meant something like this when they asked for kiss/curse affixes. They should add affixes that grant you a buff when you successfully interact with them (soak a mechanic, interrupt an enemy, etc.). Also, I think these simple damage/haste buffs to enemies are boring.
Since there will be monsters ability bloat to interrupt (like most recent seasons) having simple affixes like those is fine however the bonus damage part is just trash, I can already see bad leaders optimizing the group finder for no reason
I think the haste/damage buffs to enemies are okay, if they actually reward you for focusing those enemies. For example, successfully interrupting the caster mob with +30% haste grants your party a +20% haste buff for X seconds. You could either keep that mob alive longer for more haste or kill it early because it's dangerous. In another week keeping alive certain mobs stacks +%dmg done on all nearby enemies and allies for every second alive. So you either keep it alive to buff yourself or kill it early such that the damage doesnt eventually overwhelm you.
Quazii, you are the best content creator for wow when it comes down to no nonsens right to the point and really well constructed information. I love it. Nobody could have explained this better then you did in this video. Thanks for being our voice.
I feel like this actually takes away player agency. I main feral. I don't want to be 'forced' into playing Balance for a week as I'd likely take the week off. And while I have a lot of alts, I almost never key with them b/c I don't know the rotations for all classes/specs etc. Love this video essay.
look. I know this is horrible, but by playing druid you have a choice (I don't mean that you should consider playing another spec, I'm against this thought). But now, Imagine you're playing rogue or something like that. What can you do? Reroll? Or make your healer have a heart attack on every single pack? Nah this is bullshit, nobody asked for these changes and I doubt blizzard will revert it. I'll be glad if I'm wrong but I doubt it. Fuck sake man.
@@stetsons222I’ll take incorp over any of the +7 affix left for TWW any day. Those 4 affix that are staying are pug killers 1000 times for than the ones Leaving.
It's not about bragging, during grievous weeks as disc I would spec into contrition which allows my heal penance too heal anyone with atonement too. It's a never picked talent node , but I found it useful on those weeks. It was fun to me because I got to play with different talents. I find using the same cookie cutter build very boring.
I have literally though that myself, i actually like the challenge. And i do think to myself damn that was a nice grip idc if the group praises me for it or not
@@nervio2701 Totally! The other day in a pug NO a fear went off on the last 2 mobs before the last boss. Was on my holy priest that's undead, so i wotf'd out the fear, slammed a heal down on the group, spun round and gripped the player that was running straight towards the boss back to us preventing the ninja pull. Did anyone say anything? Not a word! But I was proud of myself :D
I love that they call these kiss/curse affixes. Its just a curse, and someone else gets a kiss each week except healers and tanks who are just cursed. Real kiss curse is "heres a mechanic, do it right, kiss. Do it wrong, curse."
or some dps classes that wont be able to do any m+ like ww monks for example no one will take them anymore and if they do their own keys people will leave when they see the ww monk cause they have nothing si now im forced to main something else
@@kennyooteman monk isnt the only class with a multitude of dmg types dawg. survival is an example. In tww they can do physical-fire-nature-arcane-bleed damages. so maybe there isn't 1 week u are super strong but u are a little buffed in multiple weeks versus some specs like frost dk that have 90% + of their dmg from frost
@@jaded-harper lol my main dmg type is physical with some nature dmg abilities so most weeks pugs wont take me neither and that sucks,. It was already painfull in df and now blizz makes it even wors
My main issue with the curse/kiss part is: all the curse ends up on the tanks and healers while the kiss parts are all on the dps. the kiss/curse would be nice to help whoever does it. It doesn't need to be new affixes, altering existing ones would be fine. Example Afflicted: Current way it works: Needs to be dispelled or you loose 50%haste possible fix: The player who dispells gains 5% haste, the rest of the party gains 2% haste --> everyone gets buffed, the one who actualy does it, gets even more. Still there would be some issues of "not having 3 dispellers in the party" but i don't mind if not all problems are fixed at the same time. hell, even explosive would be fun if you get a stacking buff for every explosive you kill --> something like "your spells and abilitys have a chance of < orb count > to trigger a explosion around your target" (if you wanna make the healers love you, make the healing spells trigger a healexplosion, the dps spells a dps explosion) the main advantage of kiss/curse is, that the ones that need to handle extra stuff can also shine on some other end. and still every week there would be slight differences in what are the best specs for the week (assuming the hunters can start to survive the higher keys) i'm 12 minutes in (after the curse part) so if this gets mentioned later... mb have a nice day and see you in some keys :D
"all the curse ends up on the tanks and healers while the kiss parts are all on the dps" EXACTLY, in a world where we have a shortage of tanks and healers why are we catering to the DPS and making it even more niche as to what is accepted each week, if mages are in a good spot and its the affix wherre frost and fire damage is increased, Ofcourse every group is going to opt for a mage, or a warlock, whatever the 'kiss' is for the week. Pigeon holing the more niche DPS classes even more, ontop of the lack of melee favouring 'kiss' buffs.
they couldve made explosive a great affix in 3sec. Not make them spawn as much. Make them a bit harder to kill and when they explode when u killed them make them do dmg to the mobs/bosses.
It isn’t even kiss curse, it’s curse everyone and kiss some of the dps. Why would a healer want to do any of these? They aren’t getting any kisses but all of the curses?!?
the first part of the affixes are a bit overtuned as of now, they will most likely nerf those. As for the kiss part, i think anything but incorporeal & afflicted is already a kiss for me.
@@Gleamings imagine dps have to just stop dps and afk because theyre low life cause they got hit by a raging mob that couldnt be ccd and all kicks were on cd, greatest affix design in the universe
Something you skipped over Quazii is that havoc not only double dips into buffs with chaos brand, but chaos damage itself counts as all types of damage so they will be buffed every week
Funny shiy, VDH has no punish from the armor ignore and such, gets extra dmg on all weeks, and Aug evoker is also good in all the weeks since the dmg type does not matter, so ... nothing actually changes.
ive done hundred of 8-10 keys across my alts this season but i havent pushed higher than 12s because i havent got to a 'push' week yet. If there was no affixes id be forming groups with friends every week to try and push. Im not playing the keys level i want to play because of affixes.
Don't worry, it's already "too late". They gonna ignore the constructive feedback and shove these down our throats. Tell me I am/was wrong in six months! 😑😑
Long time player of WoW. The out of touch affix changes made by blizzard here really make me feel like I don't belong here. M+ is such a wonderful game mode but I don't interact with the affixes like Bolstering and to a lesser extent, Sanguine. I love Tanking and setting up my groups for the best possible pulls for their dps profiles and being able to sustain myself through it. The affixes don't allow that to happen most of the time. I really wish another game would open up it's own version of what M+ is without all the bullshit tied to it.
The problem with removing Entangling is, to me, that it represents a pull-back from what I'd consider true player choice in design. The most complicated thing a player can do in WoW is move. I don't really think that's a question: there's a reason why skills exist to temporarily increase your range, that allow you to cast or channel while moving, or that deal less damage but allow you to generate resources from a distance. Entangling had a clear downside to it (getting stunned,) but was an individual check for each player and for each role with different consequences for each. The tank moving repositions the entire fight, the healer moving adds stress to the ability to handle dangerous scenarios without spending cooldowns, etc. Entangling worked because it was something that required you to individually handle, and because it optionally gave some classes the ability to spend a cooldown to solve them. Gust of Wind, Disengage, Blessing of Freedom etc were all solid solutions that didn't really punish the player, and if you got super big brain about it you could do things like click Blessing of Freedom on the priest, who could then Leap of Faith the healer or whatever. Sanguine is another movement based challenge, but it is different in that it is a constant thing that requires constant adjustments. In a dungeon with Entangling you may get it something like 40 times or more, true, but it effectively taxed the party with minor damage reduction, or a global cooldown (also damage reduction) and utility skill. Sanguine is something that happens constantly, needs an answer constantly, and can require resources be consumed constantly. Worse, Sanguine can fail if a single player fails. An immobile tank, a missed kick, an ill-timed stun all hose the entire party. Worse, casters channel and can't be stopped inside of it, so there are times when no player can interact with it. I think they need to reconsider why Entangling felt so playable and why Sanguine feels so oppressive, and understand why players would prefer Entangling by far over Sanguine in terms of movement or zone control affixes.
Very well put together, thank you @Quazii! Lets hope blizzard sees this. I will also add that there is no worse feeling than being a non-meta healer like monk and just hanging out in valdraken for 3 out of 4 seasons waiting to be invited and then logging off and doing something else instead because you are just sick of it. People will wait for a resto druid even if he is 200 RIO below you, only for the vers buff and to follow the meta. Those raid buffs that some classes bring, should either be made to not work in m+, or give 1 raid buff to every spec in the game to avoid this garbage. And no, not everyone wants to reroll to druid or priest for most seasons when they are meta, even though I play a druid alt, I still would like to spend most of my time on my main, which i know is the case for a lot of players. The same 5 classes being the only ones invited for 3-4 seasons in a row, probably more going backwards in shadowlands, is just garbage and does not give incentive to players to play other characters they enjoy more, unless they like sitting on a bench in valdraken
You, Jak, Bellular and the others are doing God's work voicing these concerns for the players! Most of the playerbase (and all my friends) is in agreement with all these points. Thank you Quazzi!!!!!
Totally agree with this feedback. I played multiple times for the R1 M+ title now with pugs. In two seasons even with more then one char. But affixes always just feel like a chore. At some point you have one shots from a bunch of mechanics anyway where you have to find a way to survive them (or in case of the healer keep the group alive though it) but getting then screwed because a bad timed affix or whatever is so discouraging. But it's not just the affixes. For the current season if you are pushing 19s with random groups and for some reason get a ULD instead of a AV key you have to downgrade it to 18, probably 17 like last week and play it up again just to get another ULD. This also needs a fix.
100% stop the fixation on affixes. I second this idea. What I've always wanted was a pathing "bonus" instead of affixes. This could show up on the map of the dungeon, and also as checkpoints. These paths could be dynamic, not even on a weekly rotation, but each time you turn the key the path can be random. Giving a dynamic feel to mythics without changing the mecanics from week to week. 1 chest comes at the end for timing it, and another for following the bonus path. Each dungeon should feel different, and unique. Affixes make them all feel similar, and by the trying to give us something dynamic, they've actually made the experience even more bland. Really hope the devs see this video, so many good points.
So many good points! I absolutely love the idea of keystone charges. I think Tettles floated the terminology of Keystone -> Cracked Keystone -> Depleted. And I can totally see high keystones becoming ‘unstable’ and only have one charge. And YES to QOL affixes. I loved Encrypted (even though the 3 mob part was a bit clunky) as it let you try skips or burst on different packs.
15:00 You also have to take in mind, that even if your class has access to multiple specs with multiple damage types, often the gear each spec wears is not the same. While it may feel okay for a fire mage player to have access to arcane mage for the 2nd week, arcane might still feel bad to play without the proper stats (ie. current fire & arcane, fire heavly relies on haste, while too much haste makes playing arcane harder, as you will run out of mana if you are not careful).
@@danielkarlsson397 meh, maybe. i tank in wow now because it gives me far more control on the content i'm doing and people are less likely to be immediately rude to me for not understanding something... because it'll be easy to replace a DPS, but not so easy to replace a patient tank.
@@danielkarlsson397 I'm saying this after I gave up pushing at 3k on my prot pally, and I usually push with the same friends. df s3 was well received because... 6/8 dungeons weren't df. df dungeons are nice to look at overall, but literally every pull has some mech you need to stop and/or kick. that's actually very annoying to say the least as an experienced tank, on top of what as quazii has said, needing to rethink routes every few weeks to maybe weekly if these affixes go live
Great video, man! I'll be honest, if those affixes go live, I will either play DH or quit. In my opinion, if I were a developer who wants to encourage class diversity, I would design affixes more like PoE maps. For example: All rotating affixes are removed. From now on, every key, after upgrade, will roll up to 0/2/4 modifiers: 0/1/2 negative (prefixes) and 0/1/2 positive (affixes). (0 for M+ 0-5, 1 for M+ 5-9, 2 for M+ 10+). Example: Azure Vaults +14 ------------ Merciless - mobs deal 10% increased physical damage Finisher - mobs deal 10% increased damage to targets below 20% life ------------ Firemaster - players deal 10% more damage from fire Silencer - after the 3rd successful interrupt, all players get 10% haste for 10 seconds ------------ We could even just start with simple modifiers: deal X more damage from Y, and add the rest later; it's just an example. In my opinion, a system like that would: 1. Create emerging gameplay, making running dungeons more dynamic and increasing player retention (Blizzard could even add some cool achievements). 2. For high-end players, it would add another way to express skill and make strategic decisions around running keys. 3. For pugs, it would encourage key listers to invite different classes depending on the affixes on the key (for example, if I had a key with increased player damage from fire and nature sources, I’d definitely bring a shaman with me). Overall, a system like that would be fun for players and developers alike, with plenty of room for experimentation and development, at least in my opinion.
Dont forget that DHs do majority chaos damage,which means they are flat out buffed on every week because chaos damage is all damage in the game. So they actually triple dip.
As a mid-tier prot warrior tank, I straight up don’t run sanguine. It requires completely different skills than any other week, and a tiny mess up can cause a wipe, even on low keys. Also as a prot warrior - my whole deal is resisting physical damage. Magic is already hard to deal with without it being buffed 50% of the time (yeah, spell reflect, but it’s low uptime is compounded by magic users getting heroism). And for weeks when physical damage is buffed, usually my time to shine, sorry, not actually buffing physical, just nerfing me.
I really appreciate this video! Ive been trying to explain to my group of friends how the kiss part of the new affixes likely wont amount to anything and a meta will still form. This video is full of such good information, critic and even just possible discusssion for solutions Ive also had so much fun in m+ this season just filling vaults with only dealing with 1 affix
I like your suggestions, here's another one: Have one of the storyline NPCs (Jaina, Tyrande, Anduin, Thrall, Baine, etc..) at the beginning of the dungeon that the players choose to buff the group throughout the dungeon. Similar to Algethar's Academy, but brings the presence of the main characters. Maybe the buff scales the higher the M+ key, or they only come in at a certain level.
or, going on the 0 affixes route, just a rotating bbeg that do the role as the only affix, but in section of the istances that be differentiate by them
As a ret pally i was always felt optimistic about afflicted/entangling, and im actually kinda sad to see them go. Entangling was good too if u took unbound freedom during those weeks, but it was kind of an easy affix regardless. It made me take another talent though at least. I played ret back in season 1 when it was a struggling spec(before the rework), back when people had almost no reason to take us. These two affixes provided more incentive beyond just damage, it actually gave value to certain spells in my toolkit like cleanse(which people probably wont even take for a lot of dungeons if they can maximize dps and have a good healer). I'm sure many key leaders (who is also a healer) likely appreciated have dispel classes during affliction weeks. At least it incentivized us to use our tool kit. While ret may be doing good damage now, it could be bad down the road if we ever are getting overshadowed by other dps classes.
@@Deadscheme Mythic+ is a thing for 8 years. You would think that they should know better by now. These affixes look like someone that has no idea about the game is in charge. It's reasonable to be frustrated at this point.
Its nice that they try to switch up some things but it seems like its not thought through at all. How can you bring in these new affixes and dont think about a combination of Fortified, Focused, Bolstering/Raging. It really seems like to many people are working on the same object and nobody talks to each other. its really frustrating,
To be fair, not every aspect necessarily gets paired with each other. For example, this season storming is never paired with bolstering, spiteful, or sanguine. So it’s possible blizz knows that combo would be brutal and therefore would avoid it. But they’ve done stupider stuff before, so I’m not putting money on it either way.
@@GloomyCandy ^^ this. its clear not a single dev that works on m+ really has any clue what keys are like above a +5. if they did there is ZERO shot any of these things would even be thought of as a good change
@@bob8mybobbob I don't even think that is true though. There is no affix combination that storming is bad on, really. It's just a slightly worse volcanic.
@@erick4923 I’m not saying that they specifically didn’t make the above three storming pairings because they’re bad. But the affix pairs are on a ten week rotation, and because there are way more than ten affix pairs, many of them don’t get used. So if there are particularly bad pairings, we can hope those would be some of the unused ones.
A few things I would like to add. Shadow does shadow damage. It gets buffed one week. Dh does chaos damage, it is buffed every week. Mage can play three specs and will be buffed half if the weeks. Added bonus, whenever it is in any spec it does purely that damage type. Boomie does arcane and nature but they’re split so it has reduced effectiveness each week its spell schools are up. It just doesn’t make sense to me why they would choose to kiss in this manner where it’s so randomly skewed and certain classes benefit more than others. Like Quazii said, focus on class balance instead of artificial inflation on certain calendar weeks. If you want to make melee more desirable, stop target capping them. Why is it fair and how does it make sense that ranged classes just get to hit more targets? Also, if there are four of these affixes and they rotate, the same two will always be on fort week or vice versa. So if you play a class that has an arbitrarily more niche role at huge aoe because you’re uncapped, but your week is always tyran, you’re screwed. I’m not saying this is the best fix, but it would have been so much easier and better to just swap out specific damage types for specific stats. Like haste week or mastery week instead of fire week.
Blizzard wil hold onto them :'( And then 3 Seasons in they change it like always. How can they be so stupid...... Thanks man your Videos ar Fantastic !
I really like the idea of scrapping affixes altogether, scaling the key level to increase the dungeon difficulty, and adding in universal helpful boons: like the haste boost on every boss pull. Another I would consider is everybody gets access to an ability akin to the heart of Azeroth beam - that'd be nice for trash cleanup, either stagger them to make each pack easier, or combine them to delete a problem pack. I think boons would change the mentality of "what BS do I have to deal with this week?" to "how can I use this helpful thing most effectively this week?"
Removing affixes is absolutely the best idea I've heard for WoW in a long, long time. Because every Tuesday my thought is "let me see what BS I have to deal with this week." Just remove them and let me deal with the dungeon. I also LOATHE Tyrannical. It's hot garbage. And I absolutely love your idea around how keys break, it's such a punishment. However I am very happy with the affixes that were removed.
This. Was. An. Amazing. Video. Thank you for everything you do for and contribute to the WoW community. So many people just complain and offer no real solutions or ideas. Thank you for providing such thoughtful, in depth constructive criticism. Please post this on the forums if you haven't yet. Thank you!! ❤️
The only fix for affixes is to just straight up remove them from the game entirely. Full stop. We don't want to play against affixes with a slight dungeon-specific backdrop, we want to play against the dungeons themselves.
Affixes is what makes it fun. Only thing that does make some variation. Doing exakt same dungeon week after week with no spice is gonna make the dungeons so boring after 2-3 weeks max.
@Warcraft Blizzard, please hire this genious! Excellent summary of the current lookout, and many many good ideas. Please listen and make this a great expansion!
Not everyone is as capable as he is. Yet, if there is a massive outrage on a topic, Blizzard should notice and accept it as a red flag state, even if most of the players haven't come up with working solutions ready to implement. The response to "that doesn't sound like fun at all, if that happens I might not play" isn't "you fix it".
@@kaakrepwhatever while that's fair, a lot of the time players will say they don't like something but won't even say what they don't like. It then comes to a situation of: if you can't pinpoint what about it you don't like, we can't fix it. The answer to everything we don't like can't always be to scrap it and start over, we have to understand that dev time and resources went into it so we need to be specific with our complaints even if we can't offer a replacement idea.
As someone coming from classic it’s reassuring to know things like having different loadouts for each affix isn’t something people actually look forward to
Thank for your video ! i don't aggree to all the think, i do think affixes have a place in dungeons, i would like to have seasonal affixes back there were great to change the monotonus run of a dungeon, keeping tyrannical and fortified is fine too, but the other are really a chore.
Great video! Appreciate you taking the time to make this. Very detailed, and well put together. You have said all the things most of us are thinking. I hope the devs listen.
I feel like the case is being way overstated based on a knee-jerk reaction when reading these affixes. I know, I had the same reaction initially. Then, when I started discussing them, I'm now of the opinion that their impact will largely be quite minimal. This all comes down to trash make-up in the new dungeons. Admittedly, I've not played the beta, but I doubt you're going to get dungeons with full caster packs or full melee packs that will get mega buffed by the affixes. You will have mixes of each in every pack, and it'll require minimal adjustments to deal with them week on week. One week, focus the melee down, one week focus the casters down, one week the healer will need to patch heal more, etc.. This is also true for the damage boosts the players get. If we get 10% extra damage on a certain mob type, but there are 20 pulls let's say, and only 1 or 2 of those mobs in each pack, the additional damage you do overall is going to be next to nothing. Until we get a chance to play them, there's no real way to know, so I'm keeping an open mind. As far as the annoying affixes go, unpopular opinion, but I do think there should be 1 affix in the higher brackets that do alter your thought process in how you approach packs. And this is coming from a healer. To remove them would just mean you'd be spamming the same old dungeon over and over for months with no new thought into it each week. People may moan about affixes, but without them, mythic + would get stale real quick.
I disagree completely. I also wonder if you are the type of player that quits playing every season early anyway. I don't get tired of running the same dungeons, and not having affixes would only encourage me to play more. On the affixes, the kiss portion is completely negligible and won't change anything. But the curse is going to be much more impactful than you think. Imagine literally any mobs in the top ring of rlp with bloodlust. Even one mob with that on a fort week completely bricks that week.
Negligible effect until RLP or Halls come in the rotation. Some classes already have trouble with getting into keys, and those will make it way worse. You play warrior you say? No kiss for you, good luck.
@@SomeReallyRandomDude youre misunderstanding what im saying. they could triple that curse affect right now and literally make it only affect warriors, and you still arent bringing a warrior over an aug, shadow priest or mage. i dont care what week it is. the difference in dmg right now is so dramatically wide, that these things will do absolutely nothing to break that up
totaly agree! and I think Quazii said sth like it but the only reason ppl are looking forward to weeks with volcanic or storming is, that they are "only" annoying but have a low impact/playaround. They are really annoying still but just nothing more. And bossfights on tyrannical are really annoying and boring compared to raid bosses for instance. If ppl really want a good ST fight, they'll go into the raid. M+ is more for aoe pumping, group coordination etc. and IMAO it should be like this! I'd love to see the suggestion of receiving a usable shroud buff or getting a dps buff or whatever. maybe you just receive such a buff after each boss and you can use it whenever you want, like the alchi pots in BH so everyone can use them when it fits them best but its not stackable so you need to use it before killing the next boss!? or you get a mini BL at the start of a boss fight which paired with drums negates the need for a BL class. In DF S3 my group almost never had a BL + a BR. like >90% of the time we were missing one of them. Buffs like that as a usable thing would really have a chance to provide more variety. you still have a benefit of bringing all the classes, but you would reduce the need for specific setups.
why can't we just delete all affixes, have the key levels scale automatically by a very small heath and dmg factor (super small increase each key level) and then only add fun affixes from the past???
Implying that you play M+ for affixes? No, definitely not. Are other parts of the game interesting without affixes? Yes. They’re an annoyance more often than they’re not. Plain and simple.
Thanks, quazii, a lot of people just complained, but you really gave it some good thought by coming up with possible solutions. I love m+, and it would be great to see less gatekeeping and fewer reasons for people to rage for bricking a key. While we are at it, having someone disconnect in the middle really sucks too.
Excellent, well-thought out video. Thank you for the work done to give good feedback. I would like to add that this sort of rotation of classes / specs tends to backfire, unfortunately. People don't feel happy their one good week, they feel bad the three weeks they're not good. I also think dps like competing. Giving certain classes advantages makes that competition unfair and thus unfun. Even winning the meter in "your" week feels less of an accomplishment this way. The concept of trying to keep affixes from overlapping with game mechanics is a good one, that could be really frustrating and result in unavoidable problems. And lastly i guess: kiss-curse as a concept is still good. But I think what we have in mind when we say that is more something that rewards you for doing something right (as someone else in the comment already also indicated)
Another outstanding feedback video. Thank you for your thoughtful, well-prepared, clear explanations and reasoning behind your comments. You are my go-to for all things M+.
I'm so glad that the wow m+ community has your voice. No flaming, no toxicity, just a level headed approach from a man that clearly loves both the game and the community and wants what's best for us all. Keep it up dude, I'm hoping your content explodes in TWW, you deserve it.
A brilliantly constructed video! While I get many of the arguments made and the rationale behind them, I do think affixes add an important mix up in gameplay so I'd, personally, be opposed to just removing them entirely. Yes it should be the dungeon itself that is the challenge, but I think without ANY affixes, there is suddenly not enough thought - even something as basic as the concept of "we don't pull that pack on Fortified" mixes things up. I don't know if the answer is switching to purely positive affixes or not, definitely something that Blizzard could look to try. As for the new affixes, I think they're a bold design, but at heart impossible to actually balance, it'll be a very fine line between being incredibly overpowered, vs being a non-factor that just gets ignored. You could probably simplify it to be more like "physical trash does more damage", "magic trash does more damage", "trash takes more physical and bleed damage" and "trash takes more magical damage", which might at the very least create weeks where you bring more melee to a group rather than the frequent "wizard cleave" groups that inevitably form the meta. As for Augvoker... I'm a huge fan of support specs, and did main Augvoker for a chunk of its time in Dragonflight - and I'll always cheer for support specs' existence. But I think it has two problems that aren't its' own fault. 1) It is the ONLY support spec and 2) it is impossible to balance - it is always going to be a binary spec in the current landscape - it is either mandatory to bring, or mandatory to leave in Valdrakken, there is virtually zero middle ground. There is an obvious solution, but it is likely too extreme for Blizzard to implement, and that is to bump up party size to be 6 players - 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps and 1 support, actually make support a role, and introduce other support specs. Augvoker needs competition in the support space rather than belligerently saying it isn't a support spec it is a dps spec. Heck, if you look at the graphs you showed, before Augvoker came along, Shadow Priests were one of the more dominant specs - because of the support they bring in PI.
Definitely a well thought out analysis of the proposed affix changes for season 1 TWW. I agree with almost every point you made. Thank you for posting such a great video and hopefully Blizzard listens to the community feedback! keep them coming
Thx champ. I agree with what ya say. Also probably the biggest reason I don't play many alts is bc of the m+ clutter and cognitive load it takes to play. Some specs have like 24+ hot keys to play, and some like evoker only had like 6-8 & it's just too much plus trying to avoid ground mechanics and as a healer main I'd struggle with mobs and player's los me trying to avoid dmg & it's not fun.
Really well said 👍. I hope Blizzard takes note. Just one point, you described Thorned as having a damage reflect. It actually says inflict more damage ie just do more damage, that’s not reflect. I don’t know if that makes the effect better or worse.
Ty . I appreciate how you explain the challenges of these new affixes with some solutions in mind. So far you are the most in touch with the majority of the community and not just ranting or reading off a page.
Quazii, this is a great video and I really enjoyed the way you broke it down. You can speak on my behalf anytime! Keep up the great work. I really hope Blizzard see's this.
Might sound dumb, but had to give some fun ideas that came to mind: Happy fun fun affixes: - After every 10 mobs you kill, Random party member will emmit Fire wave that apply Burning dot to enemies within X range dot stacks X amount. - After killing a boss get movement increase speed. - Killing ''marked'' Mob will stun up to 7 mobs within 10 yrd range for 2sec. something like these imo would be fun and bring something you can play around and plan.
there is not a single thing you said here that I disagree with, positive or negative. You are the most underrated and influential down to earth black and white easy listening creator for mythic +. This is THE best wow feedback videos I have ever had the pleasure of listening to, a true voice of the community. As someone who has a lot of spare time, and plays a lot of alts pushing med high keys (10-15) with all the tools we have now to view meta and limitations of certain specs and classes it hurts me that there are certain spec I LOVE TO PLAY (feral, brewmaster, affliction, holy paladin to name my favourites of each role) yet right now I am playing a demon hunter tank because its the only thing I can play where my play time is not impeded by the spec I am playing. beacuse as open as you are with your points in the video, the bottom line is if you are playing a feral druid for example unless you are listing your own 10+ key you can forget it... Such a sad state of affairs that the spec that makes ME happy could be ruined further by the future affixes. after all as you say and a lot of the community will agree on, worrying about what bullshit you have to put up with week by week is not at all fun, even the website to check what affixes are next week refers to them as garbage!!! - KEEP DOING WHAT YOUR DOING BRO
15:20 you make a great point. That certain classes benefit more than others. Just thinking about Spriest damage. Getting a flat 10% damage during thorned on non casters. Is pretty big. Idk what the dungeons are like in TWW. But there’s usually way more mobs that melee than cast, esp since most tanks involve routes where casters are skipped in favor of physical attackers. Compared to ass rogue or feral cat bleed only affecting casters on the given week, just seems poorly designed. like Bracken is a great example. That first giga pull of nearly all clawmangles and hunters and scourges. Spriest is having a great time. Full affix buff. Then the next pull there’s only like 2 casters. And the dbl pull after that there again only 2-3 casters. In 8 targets the affix is only 1/4 compared to 3/4 for some classes on certain weeks. It really doesn’t feel like “oh cool my spec/hero talents give me diverse choices” I would feel like “glad my rip and rake deal more damage to 2 guys per pull (If I’m lucky) and last week the spriest had nearly a full 10% damage amp.
Guy at Blizzard: I completely understand your point and we have some things to think about. Blue post 2 days later: Due to recent feed back, we have decided to swap the +4 and +7 weeks. So bolstering will start at keystone +4. Also, we have tuned augmentation capstone nodes that changes all damage to specific types.
~~~~~~~~~ How to fix M+ ~~~~~~~~~ - Durability no longer takes damage while in M+ dungeons. - Vendor is in every M+ dungeon that contains consumables that can only be used in M+ - Weekly positive affixes (Killing an enemy gives you 1% stacking uncapped move speed, every time you use an ability you gain stacking 0.1% uncapped haste, bosses take +500% additional damage but deal +150%) and so on.. - Get rid of people selling carries.
I would love for even the tyrannical & fortified rotation to be removed. The tyrannical weeks are just so annoyingly difficult sometimes even on medium difficulty keys. Certain bosses become insanely difficult compared to the rest of the dungeon to the point where the entire dungeon is free and braindead, but it's all about that 1 insane boss that strikes fear in you. I just don't think it's a good design, much more fun when a dungeon is equally difficult and you're engaged throughout the entire run, like fortified weeks mostly are. If the tyrannical/fortified rotation was to be removed, it would be easier to balance the dungeons evenly across the board. Maybe you could remove affixes completely and have a dungeon rotation instead, recycle old m+ dungeons and have 6-8 dungeons swap every week or every second week for that continous diversity in gameplay. Shit load more content that way without much more work cause you already have the old m+ dungeons kind of ready and no weekly bullshittery making you not want to play for the entire week because it's fortified bolstering or bullshit tyrannical boss.
Quazii, what do you think about random affix generation upon key receival? That way, not every week would have a dominant class, but rather we'd have opportunity for everyone to shine in a specific group posting a specific key with a specific set of affixes. This is especially true when we have in mind the new affixes that were just announced. Assuming we get rid of badly designed and oppressive affixes, we wouldn't have to deal with "dead keys", so that's obviously a problem that has to be solved first.
I wish they would revisit some of their seasonal affixes. Some of the ideas were unique and fit in with the themes of the raid, but I don't know that it would need to change from week to week since we have dungeons that rotate every season now. So just one overall seasonal affix/flavor/theme, and call it good. I liked season 1 but I also remember how frantic some of that was with all the affixes piled on to the content and how punishing that could be. The changes in comp once Aug came in though is really eye opening.
I agree with literally everything you said in this video. Please listen Blizzard, it will unironically save m+ to listen to Quazii & the rest of the community here. Great video mate
good video! i miss positive affixes that incentivize higher level play, im referring to the Prideful affix where you kill the mob and get a buff, or like the Encrypted affix etc, basically I enjoyed the shadowlands affixes that made you want to play +10s and higher, this season in dragonflight I had no real incentive to continue playing m+ once i got my keystone master, which only took completion of +8s on all the dungeons.
Great video. I would love to see them remove affixes completely. Focus on tuning and introduce new affixes for testing purposes from season 2. Just one row of affixes. Experiment with kiss curse. I do think affixes can bring more fun and keep things fresh. Only not in the current way. Or maybe have an affix row which increase secundairy or tertiairy stats on a rotation. So one week crit, one week mastery, etc. Or maybe a week where your main cd has a 25% cd reduction. Or a week where you combat potions have a cd of 3minutes instead of 5minutes. Or flasks do double the bonus.
Let's say entangled stayed but to make it a kiss curse you have to jump when you leave the circle to break it, BUT ALSO you could use it to trip enemies. Curse kiss. Somehow volcanic could be baited to explode on enemies. Stuff like that would make affixes fun. They are not removing affixes tho, and I'm happy about that.
Lots of great points! The affixes they're getting rid of are the ones I hate the least, but I doubt I'll miss them to any degree beyond thinking, "I'd rather have those than these new ones." It's hard to argue against the idea that just entirely removing affixes would improve the M+ experience. Turning them into buffs sounds potentially fun. Maybe they could think of some effects that don't affect difficulty but just change the dungeons' overall feeling from week to week. Weather, NPC dialogue, things like that.
I wish they added an affix that encourages small pulls, not only by punishing big pulls but also by rewarding small pulls. Something like "if there are 4 or fewer enemies whithin 10yrd enemies take x% increased single target damage (should be a big %), otherwise they increase their health permanently by x% per enemy above 4)". The point is to make "single target weeks" the same speed as an "AoE week" by blasting small pulls. And in these weeks is when other affixes like afflicted, incorporeal, and these "complex" affixes should be more prevalent (and even made harder) to compensate the loss of difficulty of making small pulls, even old seasonal affixes like tormented, thundering or awakened would fit perfectly here in these weeks. They could even bake this affix into tyrannical so building singletarget talents makes more sense and feel better in tyrannical weeks.
Damn Quazii! You hit the nail on the head here! Fuck, if they did exactly what you said M+ would be so much better. I can’t stand sanguine as a tank, having a mob stand there doing some shit that cannot be interrupted and filling to full hp is so dumb. Not being able to bring trash into bosses for fear of healing it up is dumb! Bolstering can kiss my ass too. I love pulling big but what a stressful time it can be. I really hope they make these changes you mentioned.
thanks for your honest take on this announcement. there has to be some scientific merit to study how 95% of the players that participate in m+ have similar views to each other about how to improve m+ but the people who make m+ even when they spell out the intentional logic of their thinking come up with this end result which is what no one asked for and shows a complete misunderstanding of how m+ is interacted with by the players. yet there have been some absolute banger ideas implemented into m+ that are universally loved which make this even more confusing to me at least. if i were going to make a change it would be get rid of all affixes except tyran and fort, but change the way they work. On fortified weeks the dungeon would feel more like the old teeming affix where the dungeon would be full of large groups of npc's. most of them dont have mechanics but the sheer amount can overwhelm. Big AoE FUN. On tyrannical weeks instead of large groups of npc's the dungeon would be stationed by large lieutenants or mini bosses where the groups used to be and the bosses would get an extra mechanic or two instead of extra health and damage. THIS would make people switch their builds from AoE to single target and maybe give more specs more play time alternating weeks. then as an extra bonus i would put a menu on the m+ key interface before starting the key to include any one seasonal affix ever created
Quazi one more thing I would like to add is your observations while I feel correct miss one thing. You observations assume mob homogenatity, I think these affixes will lead to people quitting keys when some of the fist mobs in the M+ are easy, and in the back half of an M+ are the hardest/Most synergistic. This can lead to massive time investment with nothing to show for it. In a "good" dungeon mobs are varied with varied solutions. Pushing mob content toward certain solutions could leave to nerfs where because of an affix to certain mobs making it arguably less fun.
Great video, with the rotating dungeon I think its fine if you drop affixes. Also raging does not increase mob damage anymore, just make them cc immune.
IMO, and I think many agree, the problem is not getting into mid to low level keys as a no-meta class. What problems would there be in adding additional loot for groups that have under-representated classes? Like, one extra drop if a non-meta class is in the group. I dont think effecting power is the way to go, as Quazii says, the meta comp will always be there regardless, so bringing an incentive with some other system is the way to go imo.
Tank main here too, I'm personally looking forward to the challenge. I personally don't see the issue if PUGs aren't able to run 20s and 30s anymore. In my OPINION ( scary I know) there should be some kind of ceiling for M+ outside of group synergy and routing. I enjoy watching things like the MDI and great push and I think the top end level of keys should be ran by coordinated groups (much like mythic raid) not pugs. I see this as a pug issue, not a dedicated group issue, and again I look forward to the challenge.
I haven't played last season but plan to return for war within. Usually playing bear tank in m+ I feel like the new affixes secure bear to be bottom tank once again. Ignoring amor and more magic damage taken sounds awful for a bear but I haven't read class changes, so maybe I'm wrong. On retirering affixes... keeping all the ones they retire and retire the ones they want to keep would have been a better choice. Even bursting requires massdispell and forces a specific class in the comb that week.
Somone in Blizz forums yesterday suggested an idea I really like: Give us back incorp and similar affixes, but balance it with an attractive kiss: the player who successfully manages the affix gets an 8s 10% throughput buff. Players would go from dreading the affix to competing to manage it!
So much is about attitude. It would make those affixes something to look forward to, friendly-compete over, and laugh about who got it. At high end gameplay, it could become group strat to make sure player got it who could take most advantage.
Great analysis. I agreed with ALL you said here. I actually stopped doing any M+ above 8 because its the opposite of fun... not even challenging, just annoying! Unlike the previous 5 expansions where I had a subscription and played constantly, now, I just play the first 1 or 2 months of every patch, curve and leave. M+ as it is, doesn't attract me.
So far the best put together feedback video
100%
I agree with this statement :)
@@Ragovski Yes, now the Raging affix does "only" give CC immunity.
But having CC Immunity on a mob that enrage itself or if there's other mobs that are cc immune that buffs other cc immune targets means it does Tons of dmg to the tank and possibly to the entire group if a particular mob happen to have an AoE nuke ability, like the Golem type mobs in Uldaman as an example.
I don't think people meant something like this when they asked for kiss/curse affixes. They should add affixes that grant you a buff when you successfully interact with them (soak a mechanic, interrupt an enemy, etc.).
Also, I think these simple damage/haste buffs to enemies are boring.
Since there will be monsters ability bloat to interrupt (like most recent seasons) having simple affixes like those is fine however the bonus damage part is just trash, I can already see bad leaders optimizing the group finder for no reason
I think the haste/damage buffs to enemies are okay, if they actually reward you for focusing those enemies. For example, successfully interrupting the caster mob with +30% haste grants your party a +20% haste buff for X seconds. You could either keep that mob alive longer for more haste or kill it early because it's dangerous.
In another week keeping alive certain mobs stacks +%dmg done on all nearby enemies and allies for every second alive. So you either keep it alive to buff yourself or kill it early such that the damage doesnt eventually overwhelm you.
A 5 year old could have come up with these new affixes
yes exactly this, those new affixes suck and are boring
Quazii, you are the best content creator for wow when it comes down to no nonsens right to the point and really well constructed information. I love it. Nobody could have explained this better then you did in this video. Thanks for being our voice.
Please make a post in the forums with this, preach!
Please yes, a lot of people didn't ask for these changes and it seems horrible and the opposite of fun
I feel like this actually takes away player agency. I main feral. I don't want to be 'forced' into playing Balance for a week as I'd likely take the week off. And while I have a lot of alts, I almost never key with them b/c I don't know the rotations for all classes/specs etc. Love this video essay.
look. I know this is horrible, but by playing druid you have a choice (I don't mean that you should consider playing another spec, I'm against this thought). But now, Imagine you're playing rogue or something like that. What can you do? Reroll? Or make your healer have a heart attack on every single pack? Nah this is bullshit, nobody asked for these changes and I doubt blizzard will revert it. I'll be glad if I'm wrong but I doubt it. Fuck sake man.
They got rid of everything I like, and kept everything I hate.
First time?
They made a bunch of bad decisions. But saying that you like incorp is cap af.
@@stetsons222I’ll take incorp over any of the +7 affix left for TWW any day. Those 4 affix that are staying are pug killers 1000 times for than the ones Leaving.
You liked Incorporeal? Lol
"Did you see that sick death grip i did on that mob, before it soaked in sanguine?" 🤣 lmao!
It's not about bragging, during grievous weeks as disc I would spec into contrition which allows my heal penance too heal anyone with atonement too. It's a never picked talent node , but I found it useful on those weeks. It was fun to me because I got to play with different talents. I find using the same cookie cutter build very boring.
to be fair, i've been complimented more than once in pugs, dropping a ring down to bounce mobs out of sanguine on my monk :D
@@slandry4664 yea well you were also a disc priest on grievous week that was your first problem haha
I have literally though that myself, i actually like the challenge. And i do think to myself damn that was a nice grip idc if the group praises me for it or not
@@nervio2701 Totally! The other day in a pug NO a fear went off on the last 2 mobs before the last boss. Was on my holy priest that's undead, so i wotf'd out the fear, slammed a heal down on the group, spun round and gripped the player that was running straight towards the boss back to us preventing the ninja pull. Did anyone say anything? Not a word! But I was proud of myself :D
I love that they call these kiss/curse affixes. Its just a curse, and someone else gets a kiss each week except healers and tanks who are just cursed. Real kiss curse is "heres a mechanic, do it right, kiss. Do it wrong, curse."
or some dps classes that wont be able to do any m+ like ww monks for example no one will take them anymore and if they do their own keys people will leave when they see the ww monk cause they have nothing si now im forced to main something else
@@kennyooteman monk isnt the only class with a multitude of dmg types dawg. survival is an example. In tww they can do physical-fire-nature-arcane-bleed damages. so maybe there isn't 1 week u are super strong but u are a little buffed in multiple weeks versus some specs like frost dk that have 90% + of their dmg from frost
@@jaded-harper lol my main dmg type is physical with some nature dmg abilities so most weeks pugs wont take me neither and that sucks,. It was already painfull in df and now blizz makes it even wors
My main issue with the curse/kiss part is:
all the curse ends up on the tanks and healers while the kiss parts are all on the dps.
the kiss/curse would be nice to help whoever does it. It doesn't need to be new affixes, altering existing ones would be fine.
Example Afflicted:
Current way it works: Needs to be dispelled or you loose 50%haste
possible fix: The player who dispells gains 5% haste, the rest of the party gains 2% haste
--> everyone gets buffed, the one who actualy does it, gets even more.
Still there would be some issues of "not having 3 dispellers in the party" but i don't mind if not all problems are fixed at the same time.
hell, even explosive would be fun if you get a stacking buff for every explosive you kill --> something like "your spells and abilitys have a chance of < orb count > to trigger a explosion around your target" (if you wanna make the healers love you, make the healing spells trigger a healexplosion, the dps spells a dps explosion)
the main advantage of kiss/curse is, that the ones that need to handle extra stuff can also shine on some other end.
and still every week there would be slight differences in what are the best specs for the week (assuming the hunters can start to survive the higher keys)
i'm 12 minutes in (after the curse part) so if this gets mentioned later... mb
have a nice day and see you in some keys :D
"all the curse ends up on the tanks and healers while the kiss parts are all on the dps"
EXACTLY, in a world where we have a shortage of tanks and healers why are we catering to the DPS and making it even more niche as to what is accepted each week, if mages are in a good spot and its the affix wherre frost and fire damage is increased, Ofcourse every group is going to opt for a mage, or a warlock, whatever the 'kiss' is for the week. Pigeon holing the more niche DPS classes even more, ontop of the lack of melee favouring 'kiss' buffs.
they couldve made explosive a great affix in 3sec. Not make them spawn as much. Make them a bit harder to kill and when they explode when u killed them make them do dmg to the mobs/bosses.
It isn’t even kiss curse, it’s curse everyone and kiss some of the dps. Why would a healer want to do any of these? They aren’t getting any kisses but all of the curses?!?
I'm looking forward to Thorns, finally a bit more to heal!
That's the only thing I like about it though 😂 they should have just substituted the other row of affixes with this
the first part of the affixes are a bit overtuned as of now, they will most likely nerf those. As for the kiss part, i think anything but incorporeal & afflicted is already a kiss for me.
@@Gleamings imagine dps have to just stop dps and afk because theyre low life cause they got hit by a raging mob that couldnt be ccd and all kicks were on cd, greatest affix design in the universe
@@pet4pr4nk Imagine DPS monkeys having to think or get good at the game or something
Something you skipped over Quazii is that havoc not only double dips into buffs with chaos brand, but chaos damage itself counts as all types of damage so they will be buffed every week
can't wait for another 4 seasons of DH meta...even DH tanks are now bored and praying for a meta shift so they can play something else, lol
Funny shiy, VDH has no punish from the armor ignore and such, gets extra dmg on all weeks, and Aug evoker is also good in all the weeks since the dmg type does not matter, so ... nothing actually changes.
ive done hundred of 8-10 keys across my alts this season but i havent pushed higher than 12s because i havent got to a 'push' week yet. If there was no affixes id be forming groups with friends every week to try and push. Im not playing the keys level i want to play because of affixes.
Don't worry, it's already "too late". They gonna ignore the constructive feedback and shove these down our throats. Tell me I am/was wrong in six months! 😑😑
Long time player of WoW. The out of touch affix changes made by blizzard here really make me feel like I don't belong here. M+ is such a wonderful game mode but I don't interact with the affixes like Bolstering and to a lesser extent, Sanguine. I love Tanking and setting up my groups for the best possible pulls for their dps profiles and being able to sustain myself through it. The affixes don't allow that to happen most of the time. I really wish another game would open up it's own version of what M+ is without all the bullshit tied to it.
The problem with removing Entangling is, to me, that it represents a pull-back from what I'd consider true player choice in design.
The most complicated thing a player can do in WoW is move. I don't really think that's a question: there's a reason why skills exist to temporarily increase your range, that allow you to cast or channel while moving, or that deal less damage but allow you to generate resources from a distance.
Entangling had a clear downside to it (getting stunned,) but was an individual check for each player and for each role with different consequences for each. The tank moving repositions the entire fight, the healer moving adds stress to the ability to handle dangerous scenarios without spending cooldowns, etc.
Entangling worked because it was something that required you to individually handle, and because it optionally gave some classes the ability to spend a cooldown to solve them.
Gust of Wind, Disengage, Blessing of Freedom etc were all solid solutions that didn't really punish the player, and if you got super big brain about it you could do things like click Blessing of Freedom on the priest, who could then Leap of Faith the healer or whatever.
Sanguine is another movement based challenge, but it is different in that it is a constant thing that requires constant adjustments. In a dungeon with Entangling you may get it something like 40 times or more, true, but it effectively taxed the party with minor damage reduction, or a global cooldown (also damage reduction) and utility skill. Sanguine is something that happens constantly, needs an answer constantly, and can require resources be consumed constantly.
Worse, Sanguine can fail if a single player fails. An immobile tank, a missed kick, an ill-timed stun all hose the entire party. Worse, casters channel and can't be stopped inside of it, so there are times when no player can interact with it.
I think they need to reconsider why Entangling felt so playable and why Sanguine feels so oppressive, and understand why players would prefer Entangling by far over Sanguine in terms of movement or zone control affixes.
Your comment is gibberish. Fuck entangling, stupid shit.
Very well put together, thank you @Quazii! Lets hope blizzard sees this.
I will also add that there is no worse feeling than being a non-meta healer like monk and just hanging out in valdraken for 3 out of 4 seasons waiting to be invited and then logging off and doing something else instead because you are just sick of it. People will wait for a resto druid even if he is 200 RIO below you, only for the vers buff and to follow the meta. Those raid buffs that some classes bring, should either be made to not work in m+, or give 1 raid buff to every spec in the game to avoid this garbage.
And no, not everyone wants to reroll to druid or priest for most seasons when they are meta, even though I play a druid alt, I still would like to spend most of my time on my main, which i know is the case for a lot of players. The same 5 classes being the only ones invited for 3-4 seasons in a row, probably more going backwards in shadowlands, is just garbage and does not give incentive to players to play other characters they enjoy more, unless they like sitting on a bench in valdraken
You, Jak, Bellular and the others are doing God's work voicing these concerns for the players! Most of the playerbase (and all my friends) is in agreement with all these points. Thank you Quazzi!!!!!
Totally agree with this feedback. I played multiple times for the R1 M+ title now with pugs. In two seasons even with more then one char. But affixes always just feel like a chore. At some point you have one shots from a bunch of mechanics anyway where you have to find a way to survive them (or in case of the healer keep the group alive though it) but getting then screwed because a bad timed affix or whatever is so discouraging.
But it's not just the affixes. For the current season if you are pushing 19s with random groups and for some reason get a ULD instead of a AV key you have to downgrade it to 18, probably 17 like last week and play it up again just to get another ULD. This also needs a fix.
100% stop the fixation on affixes. I second this idea. What I've always wanted was a pathing "bonus" instead of affixes. This could show up on the map of the dungeon, and also as checkpoints. These paths could be dynamic, not even on a weekly rotation, but each time you turn the key the path can be random. Giving a dynamic feel to mythics without changing the mecanics from week to week. 1 chest comes at the end for timing it, and another for following the bonus path. Each dungeon should feel different, and unique. Affixes make them all feel similar, and by the trying to give us something dynamic, they've actually made the experience even more bland. Really hope the devs see this video, so many good points.
So many good points! I absolutely love the idea of keystone charges. I think Tettles floated the terminology of Keystone -> Cracked Keystone -> Depleted. And I can totally see high keystones becoming ‘unstable’ and only have one charge.
And YES to QOL affixes. I loved Encrypted (even though the 3 mob part was a bit clunky) as it let you try skips or burst on different packs.
15:00 You also have to take in mind, that even if your class has access to multiple specs with multiple damage types, often the gear each spec wears is not the same. While it may feel okay for a fire mage player to have access to arcane mage for the 2nd week, arcane might still feel bad to play without the proper stats (ie. current fire & arcane, fire heavly relies on haste, while too much haste makes playing arcane harder, as you will run out of mana if you are not careful).
yeah i also saw that this entire change will discourage more tanks yet again
What discourages tanks is idiot DPS players whining over everything, not the dungeons itself
@@danielkarlsson397 meh, maybe. i tank in wow now because it gives me far more control on the content i'm doing and people are less likely to be immediately rude to me for not understanding something... because it'll be easy to replace a DPS, but not so easy to replace a patient tank.
@@danielkarlsson397 I'm saying this after I gave up pushing at 3k on my prot pally, and I usually push with the same friends. df s3 was well received because... 6/8 dungeons weren't df. df dungeons are nice to look at overall, but literally every pull has some mech you need to stop and/or kick. that's actually very annoying to say the least as an experienced tank, on top of what as quazii has said, needing to rethink routes every few weeks to maybe weekly if these affixes go live
@@danielkarlsson397
No
"Non-boss enemies with mana inflict 20% increased magic damage" Me as a bear tank - welp guess I will die then
and that's WoW M+ affixes for you... just makes you not really want to play at a high level for that week.
Great video, man!
I'll be honest, if those affixes go live, I will either play DH or quit.
In my opinion, if I were a developer who wants to encourage class diversity, I would design affixes more like PoE maps. For example:
All rotating affixes are removed. From now on, every key, after upgrade, will roll up to 0/2/4 modifiers: 0/1/2 negative (prefixes) and 0/1/2 positive (affixes). (0 for M+ 0-5, 1 for M+ 5-9, 2 for M+ 10+).
Example:
Azure Vaults +14
------------
Merciless - mobs deal 10% increased physical damage
Finisher - mobs deal 10% increased damage to targets below 20% life
------------
Firemaster - players deal 10% more damage from fire
Silencer - after the 3rd successful interrupt, all players get 10% haste for 10 seconds
------------
We could even just start with simple modifiers: deal X more damage from Y, and add the rest later; it's just an example.
In my opinion, a system like that would:
1. Create emerging gameplay, making running dungeons more dynamic and increasing player retention (Blizzard could even add some cool achievements).
2. For high-end players, it would add another way to express skill and make strategic decisions around running keys.
3. For pugs, it would encourage key listers to invite different classes depending on the affixes on the key (for example, if I had a key with increased player damage from fire and nature sources, I’d definitely bring a shaman with me).
Overall, a system like that would be fun for players and developers alike, with plenty of room for experimentation and development, at least in my opinion.
Blizzard will see this see this video, and fix it in 6 years.
War Within Classic, cant wait
they will see this video and say you think you do but you dont
Dont forget that DHs do majority chaos damage,which means they are flat out buffed on every week because chaos damage is all damage in the game. So they actually triple dip.
Guys we need to really spread this video AS MUCH as we can do to let Blizzard notice it.
commenting for the algorithm. this shit is important
As a mid-tier prot warrior tank, I straight up don’t run sanguine. It requires completely different skills than any other week, and a tiny mess up can cause a wipe, even on low keys.
Also as a prot warrior - my whole deal is resisting physical damage. Magic is already hard to deal with without it being buffed 50% of the time (yeah, spell reflect, but it’s low uptime is compounded by magic users getting heroism). And for weeks when physical damage is buffed, usually my time to shine, sorry, not actually buffing physical, just nerfing me.
I really appreciate this video! Ive been trying to explain to my group of friends how the kiss part of the new affixes likely wont amount to anything and a meta will still form. This video is full of such good information, critic and even just possible discusssion for solutions
Ive also had so much fun in m+ this season just filling vaults with only dealing with 1 affix
I like your suggestions, here's another one:
Have one of the storyline NPCs (Jaina, Tyrande, Anduin, Thrall, Baine, etc..) at the beginning of the dungeon that the players choose to buff the group throughout the dungeon. Similar to Algethar's Academy, but brings the presence of the main characters. Maybe the buff scales the higher the M+ key, or they only come in at a certain level.
or, going on the 0 affixes route, just a rotating bbeg that do the role as the only affix, but in section of the istances that be differentiate by them
As a ret pally i was always felt optimistic about afflicted/entangling, and im actually kinda sad to see them go. Entangling was good too if u took unbound freedom during those weeks, but it was kind of an easy affix regardless. It made me take another talent though at least. I played ret back in season 1 when it was a struggling spec(before the rework), back when people had almost no reason to take us. These two affixes provided more incentive beyond just damage, it actually gave value to certain spells in my toolkit like cleanse(which people probably wont even take for a lot of dungeons if they can maximize dps and have a good healer). I'm sure many key leaders (who is also a healer) likely appreciated have dispel classes during affliction weeks. At least it incentivized us to use our tool kit. While ret may be doing good damage now, it could be bad down the road if we ever are getting overshadowed by other dps classes.
I don’t understand why Blizzard won’t listen to the community on this one 😢
@@Deadscheme because they left in the affixes everyone hates
@@Deadscheme The thing is that these changes seem so dumb, it doesn't give a lot of confidence on their ability to iterate in the good direction...
they will, takes time to change things.
Blizzard never listens to the community, the whole "listening to feedback" has been a meme for the past 15 years
@@Deadscheme Mythic+ is a thing for 8 years. You would think that they should know better by now. These affixes look like someone that has no idea about the game is in charge. It's reasonable to be frustrated at this point.
15:45 Man looking at those metrics is just sad.
Its nice that they try to switch up some things but it seems like its not thought through at all. How can you bring in these new affixes and dont think about a combination of Fortified, Focused, Bolstering/Raging. It really seems like to many people are working on the same object and nobody talks to each other. its really frustrating,
To be fair, not every aspect necessarily gets paired with each other. For example, this season storming is never paired with bolstering, spiteful, or sanguine. So it’s possible blizz knows that combo would be brutal and therefore would avoid it.
But they’ve done stupider stuff before, so I’m not putting money on it either way.
@@GloomyCandy ^^ this. its clear not a single dev that works on m+ really has any clue what keys are like above a +5. if they did there is ZERO shot any of these things would even be thought of as a good change
@@bob8mybobbob I don't even think that is true though. There is no affix combination that storming is bad on, really. It's just a slightly worse volcanic.
@@erick4923 I’m not saying that they specifically didn’t make the above three storming pairings because they’re bad. But the affix pairs are on a ten week rotation, and because there are way more than ten affix pairs, many of them don’t get used. So if there are particularly bad pairings, we can hope those would be some of the unused ones.
A few things I would like to add. Shadow does shadow damage. It gets buffed one week. Dh does chaos damage, it is buffed every week. Mage can play three specs and will be buffed half if the weeks. Added bonus, whenever it is in any spec it does purely that damage type. Boomie does arcane and nature but they’re split so it has reduced effectiveness each week its spell schools are up. It just doesn’t make sense to me why they would choose to kiss in this manner where it’s so randomly skewed and certain classes benefit more than others. Like Quazii said, focus on class balance instead of artificial inflation on certain calendar weeks. If you want to make melee more desirable, stop target capping them. Why is it fair and how does it make sense that ranged classes just get to hit more targets?
Also, if there are four of these affixes and they rotate, the same two will always be on fort week or vice versa. So if you play a class that has an arbitrarily more niche role at huge aoe because you’re uncapped, but your week is always tyran, you’re screwed.
I’m not saying this is the best fix, but it would have been so much easier and better to just swap out specific damage types for specific stats. Like haste week or mastery week instead of fire week.
Blizzard wil hold onto them :'( And then 3 Seasons in they change it like always. How can they be so stupid...... Thanks man your Videos ar Fantastic !
They secretly hate us. :3 Once you assume this everything makes sense. x3
I really like the idea of scrapping affixes altogether, scaling the key level to increase the dungeon difficulty, and adding in universal helpful boons: like the haste boost on every boss pull. Another I would consider is everybody gets access to an ability akin to the heart of Azeroth beam - that'd be nice for trash cleanup, either stagger them to make each pack easier, or combine them to delete a problem pack. I think boons would change the mentality of "what BS do I have to deal with this week?" to "how can I use this helpful thing most effectively this week?"
Removing affixes is absolutely the best idea I've heard for WoW in a long, long time. Because every Tuesday my thought is "let me see what BS I have to deal with this week." Just remove them and let me deal with the dungeon.
I also LOATHE Tyrannical. It's hot garbage. And I absolutely love your idea around how keys break, it's such a punishment.
However I am very happy with the affixes that were removed.
This. Was. An. Amazing. Video.
Thank you for everything you do for and contribute to the WoW community.
So many people just complain and offer no real solutions or ideas. Thank you for providing such thoughtful, in depth constructive criticism. Please post this on the forums if you haven't yet.
Thank you!! ❤️
The only fix for affixes is to just straight up remove them from the game entirely. Full stop.
We don't want to play against affixes with a slight dungeon-specific backdrop, we want to play against the dungeons themselves.
Affixes is what makes it fun. Only thing that does make some variation. Doing exakt same dungeon week after week with no spice is gonna make the dungeons so boring after 2-3 weeks max.
@@Iss3n Fun is a subjective term, meaning: What is considered "Fun" is different for everyone.
@@Iss3nanyone that thinks bolstering is fun needs their head checked
@@Iss3n there aren't any fun affixes
Would get bored quite fast if dungeons are the same every week
@Warcraft Blizzard, please hire this genious! Excellent summary of the current lookout, and many many good ideas. Please listen and make this a great expansion!
This is how you give feedback. Thanks for making a constructive and concise video of what's wrong, why it's wrong, and an idea of how to fix it.
Not everyone is as capable as he is. Yet, if there is a massive outrage on a topic, Blizzard should notice and accept it as a red flag state, even if most of the players haven't come up with working solutions ready to implement. The response to "that doesn't sound like fun at all, if that happens I might not play" isn't "you fix it".
@@kaakrepwhatever while that's fair, a lot of the time players will say they don't like something but won't even say what they don't like.
It then comes to a situation of: if you can't pinpoint what about it you don't like, we can't fix it. The answer to everything we don't like can't always be to scrap it and start over, we have to understand that dev time and resources went into it so we need to be specific with our complaints even if we can't offer a replacement idea.
@@kaakrepwhatever but I do agree with your sentiment, hopefully that was clear.
As someone coming from classic it’s reassuring to know things like having different loadouts for each affix isn’t something people actually look forward to
I'm glad to see bigger voices proposing the removal of affixes entirely.
Nah, that would make it boring.
Thank for your video !
i don't aggree to all the think, i do think affixes have a place in dungeons, i would like to have seasonal affixes back there were great to change the monotonus run of a dungeon, keeping tyrannical and fortified is fine too, but the other are really a chore.
Sounds like you didn't know that they are morphing the game into WoDH (World of Demon Hunters).... Seriously, your bang on target there.
Great video! Appreciate you taking the time to make this. Very detailed, and well put together. You have said all the things most of us are thinking. I hope the devs listen.
I feel like the case is being way overstated based on a knee-jerk reaction when reading these affixes. I know, I had the same reaction initially. Then, when I started discussing them, I'm now of the opinion that their impact will largely be quite minimal.
This all comes down to trash make-up in the new dungeons. Admittedly, I've not played the beta, but I doubt you're going to get dungeons with full caster packs or full melee packs that will get mega buffed by the affixes. You will have mixes of each in every pack, and it'll require minimal adjustments to deal with them week on week. One week, focus the melee down, one week focus the casters down, one week the healer will need to patch heal more, etc..
This is also true for the damage boosts the players get. If we get 10% extra damage on a certain mob type, but there are 20 pulls let's say, and only 1 or 2 of those mobs in each pack, the additional damage you do overall is going to be next to nothing.
Until we get a chance to play them, there's no real way to know, so I'm keeping an open mind.
As far as the annoying affixes go, unpopular opinion, but I do think there should be 1 affix in the higher brackets that do alter your thought process in how you approach packs. And this is coming from a healer.
To remove them would just mean you'd be spamming the same old dungeon over and over for months with no new thought into it each week. People may moan about affixes, but without them, mythic + would get stale real quick.
I disagree completely. I also wonder if you are the type of player that quits playing every season early anyway. I don't get tired of running the same dungeons, and not having affixes would only encourage me to play more. On the affixes, the kiss portion is completely negligible and won't change anything. But the curse is going to be much more impactful than you think. Imagine literally any mobs in the top ring of rlp with bloodlust. Even one mob with that on a fort week completely bricks that week.
Negligible effect until RLP or Halls come in the rotation. Some classes already have trouble with getting into keys, and those will make it way worse. You play warrior you say? No kiss for you, good luck.
@@SomeReallyRandomDude youre misunderstanding what im saying. they could triple that curse affect right now and literally make it only affect warriors, and you still arent bringing a warrior over an aug, shadow priest or mage. i dont care what week it is. the difference in dmg right now is so dramatically wide, that these things will do absolutely nothing to break that up
Excellent video as always, looking forward to your dungeons route breakdowns and plater profile!
blizzard simply not understanding that video games are supposed to be fun
They also need to be challenging. Some of you want garbage just handed to you. Earn it
I do my one 10 a week. I’d like to have enough fun to want to do more tho
Help share this super well put together super articulated video in the forums!
Im sorry I pre-ordered :(
totaly agree! and I think Quazii said sth like it but the only reason ppl are looking forward to weeks with volcanic or storming is, that they are "only" annoying but have a low impact/playaround. They are really annoying still but just nothing more.
And bossfights on tyrannical are really annoying and boring compared to raid bosses for instance. If ppl really want a good ST fight, they'll go into the raid. M+ is more for aoe pumping, group coordination etc. and IMAO it should be like this!
I'd love to see the suggestion of receiving a usable shroud buff or getting a dps buff or whatever. maybe you just receive such a buff after each boss and you can use it whenever you want, like the alchi pots in BH so everyone can use them when it fits them best but its not stackable so you need to use it before killing the next boss!?
or you get a mini BL at the start of a boss fight which paired with drums negates the need for a BL class.
In DF S3 my group almost never had a BL + a BR. like >90% of the time we were missing one of them. Buffs like that as a usable thing would really have a chance to provide more variety. you still have a benefit of bringing all the classes, but you would reduce the need for specific setups.
Fantastic job here Quazii, share this to the forums if you haven't already! I jope they listen to you, you've nailed it all on the head here.
why can't we just delete all affixes, have the key levels scale automatically by a very small heath and dmg factor (super small increase each key level) and then only add fun affixes from the past???
That sounds uninteresting
@@fishtacos007 why? it would literally bring back great fun affixes like encrypted whilst keeping the rest of the scaling very simple
Implying that you play M+ for affixes? No, definitely not. Are other parts of the game interesting without affixes? Yes.
They’re an annoyance more often than they’re not. Plain and simple.
Thanks, quazii, a lot of people just complained, but you really gave it some good thought by coming up with possible solutions.
I love m+, and it would be great to see less gatekeeping and fewer reasons for people to rage for bricking a key. While we are at it, having someone disconnect in the middle really sucks too.
Excellent, well-thought out video. Thank you for the work done to give good feedback.
I would like to add that this sort of rotation of classes / specs tends to backfire, unfortunately. People don't feel happy their one good week, they feel bad the three weeks they're not good.
I also think dps like competing. Giving certain classes advantages makes that competition unfair and thus unfun. Even winning the meter in "your" week feels less of an accomplishment this way.
The concept of trying to keep affixes from overlapping with game mechanics is a good one, that could be really frustrating and result in unavoidable problems.
And lastly i guess: kiss-curse as a concept is still good. But I think what we have in mind when we say that is more something that rewards you for doing something right (as someone else in the comment already also indicated)
Very well put together critisism and pointers. well done sir
Another outstanding feedback video. Thank you for your thoughtful, well-prepared, clear explanations and reasoning behind your comments. You are my go-to for all things M+.
I'm so glad that the wow m+ community has your voice.
No flaming, no toxicity, just a level headed approach from a man that clearly loves both the game and the community and wants what's best for us all. Keep it up dude, I'm hoping your content explodes in TWW, you deserve it.
A brilliantly constructed video! While I get many of the arguments made and the rationale behind them, I do think affixes add an important mix up in gameplay so I'd, personally, be opposed to just removing them entirely. Yes it should be the dungeon itself that is the challenge, but I think without ANY affixes, there is suddenly not enough thought - even something as basic as the concept of "we don't pull that pack on Fortified" mixes things up. I don't know if the answer is switching to purely positive affixes or not, definitely something that Blizzard could look to try.
As for the new affixes, I think they're a bold design, but at heart impossible to actually balance, it'll be a very fine line between being incredibly overpowered, vs being a non-factor that just gets ignored. You could probably simplify it to be more like "physical trash does more damage", "magic trash does more damage", "trash takes more physical and bleed damage" and "trash takes more magical damage", which might at the very least create weeks where you bring more melee to a group rather than the frequent "wizard cleave" groups that inevitably form the meta.
As for Augvoker... I'm a huge fan of support specs, and did main Augvoker for a chunk of its time in Dragonflight - and I'll always cheer for support specs' existence. But I think it has two problems that aren't its' own fault. 1) It is the ONLY support spec and 2) it is impossible to balance - it is always going to be a binary spec in the current landscape - it is either mandatory to bring, or mandatory to leave in Valdrakken, there is virtually zero middle ground. There is an obvious solution, but it is likely too extreme for Blizzard to implement, and that is to bump up party size to be 6 players - 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps and 1 support, actually make support a role, and introduce other support specs. Augvoker needs competition in the support space rather than belligerently saying it isn't a support spec it is a dps spec.
Heck, if you look at the graphs you showed, before Augvoker came along, Shadow Priests were one of the more dominant specs - because of the support they bring in PI.
Definitely a well thought out analysis of the proposed affix changes for season 1 TWW. I agree with almost every point you made. Thank you for posting such a great video and hopefully Blizzard listens to the community feedback! keep them coming
Thx champ. I agree with what ya say. Also probably the biggest reason I don't play many alts is bc of the m+ clutter and cognitive load it takes to play. Some specs have like 24+ hot keys to play, and some like evoker only had like 6-8 & it's just too much plus trying to avoid ground mechanics and as a healer main I'd struggle with mobs and player's los me trying to avoid dmg & it's not fun.
Love your stuff, buddy. Long time viewer. I'm glad to have you as a main stay in the community!
Really well said 👍. I hope Blizzard takes note. Just one point, you described Thorned as having a damage reflect. It actually says inflict more damage ie just do more damage, that’s not reflect. I don’t know if that makes the effect better or worse.
Great video, addresses a lot of issues with the upcoming affixes, I'm definitely worried with the way things look now.
Ty . I appreciate how you explain the challenges of these new affixes with some solutions in mind. So far you are the most in touch with the majority of the community and not just ranting or reading off a page.
Quazii, this is a great video and I really enjoyed the way you broke it down. You can speak on my behalf anytime! Keep up the great work. I really hope Blizzard see's this.
Might sound dumb, but had to give some fun ideas that came to mind: Happy fun fun affixes:
- After every 10 mobs you kill, Random party member will emmit Fire wave that apply Burning dot to enemies within X range dot stacks X amount.
- After killing a boss get movement increase speed.
- Killing ''marked'' Mob will stun up to 7 mobs within 10 yrd range for 2sec.
something like these imo would be fun and bring something you can play around and plan.
there is not a single thing you said here that I disagree with, positive or negative. You are the most underrated and influential down to earth black and white easy listening creator for mythic +. This is THE best wow feedback videos I have ever had the pleasure of listening to, a true voice of the community. As someone who has a lot of spare time, and plays a lot of alts pushing med high keys (10-15) with all the tools we have now to view meta and limitations of certain specs and classes it hurts me that there are certain spec I LOVE TO PLAY (feral, brewmaster, affliction, holy paladin to name my favourites of each role) yet right now I am playing a demon hunter tank because its the only thing I can play where my play time is not impeded by the spec I am playing. beacuse as open as you are with your points in the video, the bottom line is if you are playing a feral druid for example unless you are listing your own 10+ key you can forget it... Such a sad state of affairs that the spec that makes ME happy could be ruined further by the future affixes. after all as you say and a lot of the community will agree on, worrying about what bullshit you have to put up with week by week is not at all fun, even the website to check what affixes are next week refers to them as garbage!!! - KEEP DOING WHAT YOUR DOING BRO
15:20 you make a great point. That certain classes benefit more than others.
Just thinking about Spriest damage. Getting a flat 10% damage during thorned on non casters. Is pretty big. Idk what the dungeons are like in TWW. But there’s usually way more mobs that melee than cast, esp since most tanks involve routes where casters are skipped in favor of physical attackers.
Compared to ass rogue or feral cat bleed only affecting casters on the given week, just seems poorly designed.
like Bracken is a great example. That first giga pull of nearly all clawmangles and hunters and scourges. Spriest is having a great time. Full affix buff. Then the next pull there’s only like 2 casters. And the dbl pull after that there again only 2-3 casters.
In 8 targets the affix is only 1/4 compared to 3/4 for some classes on certain weeks.
It really doesn’t feel like “oh cool my spec/hero talents give me diverse choices” I would feel like “glad my rip and rake deal more damage to 2 guys per pull (If I’m lucky) and last week the spriest had nearly a full 10% damage amp.
Guy at Blizzard: I completely understand your point and we have some things to think about.
Blue post 2 days later: Due to recent feed back, we have decided to swap the +4 and +7 weeks. So bolstering will start at keystone +4. Also, we have tuned augmentation capstone nodes that changes all damage to specific types.
~~~~~~~~~ How to fix M+ ~~~~~~~~~
- Durability no longer takes damage while in M+ dungeons.
- Vendor is in every M+ dungeon that contains consumables that can only be used in M+
- Weekly positive affixes (Killing an enemy gives you 1% stacking uncapped move speed, every time you use an ability you gain stacking 0.1% uncapped haste, bosses take +500% additional damage but deal +150%) and so on..
- Get rid of people selling carries.
@Quazii - Awesome video as usual brother. Also, can you tell me what WA is that showing Mob timer / kick on the right side? Thx
I would love for even the tyrannical & fortified rotation to be removed. The tyrannical weeks are just so annoyingly difficult sometimes even on medium difficulty keys. Certain bosses become insanely difficult compared to the rest of the dungeon to the point where the entire dungeon is free and braindead, but it's all about that 1 insane boss that strikes fear in you. I just don't think it's a good design, much more fun when a dungeon is equally difficult and you're engaged throughout the entire run, like fortified weeks mostly are. If the tyrannical/fortified rotation was to be removed, it would be easier to balance the dungeons evenly across the board. Maybe you could remove affixes completely and have a dungeon rotation instead, recycle old m+ dungeons and have 6-8 dungeons swap every week or every second week for that continous diversity in gameplay. Shit load more content that way without much more work cause you already have the old m+ dungeons kind of ready and no weekly bullshittery making you not want to play for the entire week because it's fortified bolstering or bullshit tyrannical boss.
Quazii, what do you think about random affix generation upon key receival? That way, not every week would have a dominant class, but rather we'd have opportunity for everyone to shine in a specific group posting a specific key with a specific set of affixes. This is especially true when we have in mind the new affixes that were just announced.
Assuming we get rid of badly designed and oppressive affixes, we wouldn't have to deal with "dead keys", so that's obviously a problem that has to be solved first.
I wish they would revisit some of their seasonal affixes. Some of the ideas were unique and fit in with the themes of the raid, but I don't know that it would need to change from week to week since we have dungeons that rotate every season now. So just one overall seasonal affix/flavor/theme, and call it good.
I liked season 1 but I also remember how frantic some of that was with all the affixes piled on to the content and how punishing that could be. The changes in comp once Aug came in though is really eye opening.
Best feedback video on this topic! I agree wit EVERYTHING You said, and i love M+. PLS Blizzard don't kill the fun for us...
These are the best takes on M+ I have seen bundled into a video, yet! Great job!
I agree with literally everything you said in this video. Please listen Blizzard, it will unironically save m+ to listen to Quazii & the rest of the community here. Great video mate
good video! i miss positive affixes that incentivize higher level play, im referring to the Prideful affix where you kill the mob and get a buff, or like the Encrypted affix etc, basically I enjoyed the shadowlands affixes that made you want to play +10s and higher, this season in dragonflight I had no real incentive to continue playing m+ once i got my keystone master, which only took completion of +8s on all the dungeons.
Great video. I would love to see them remove affixes completely. Focus on tuning and introduce new affixes for testing purposes from season 2. Just one row of affixes. Experiment with kiss curse. I do think affixes can bring more fun and keep things fresh. Only not in the current way.
Or maybe have an affix row which increase secundairy or tertiairy stats on a rotation. So one week crit, one week mastery, etc. Or maybe a week where your main cd has a 25% cd reduction. Or a week where you combat potions have a cd of 3minutes instead of 5minutes. Or flasks do double the bonus.
Let's say entangled stayed but to make it a kiss curse you have to jump when you leave the circle to break it, BUT ALSO you could use it to trip enemies. Curse kiss. Somehow volcanic could be baited to explode on enemies. Stuff like that would make affixes fun. They are not removing affixes tho, and I'm happy about that.
Lots of great points! The affixes they're getting rid of are the ones I hate the least, but I doubt I'll miss them to any degree beyond thinking, "I'd rather have those than these new ones." It's hard to argue against the idea that just entirely removing affixes would improve the M+ experience. Turning them into buffs sounds potentially fun. Maybe they could think of some effects that don't affect difficulty but just change the dungeons' overall feeling from week to week. Weather, NPC dialogue, things like that.
How did you transfer your UI and weak auras :o, it shows me many bugs when I try
I wish they added an affix that encourages small pulls, not only by punishing big pulls but also by rewarding small pulls. Something like "if there are 4 or fewer enemies whithin 10yrd enemies take x% increased single target damage (should be a big %), otherwise they increase their health permanently by x% per enemy above 4)". The point is to make "single target weeks" the same speed as an "AoE week" by blasting small pulls. And in these weeks is when other affixes like afflicted, incorporeal, and these "complex" affixes should be more prevalent (and even made harder) to compensate the loss of difficulty of making small pulls, even old seasonal affixes like tormented, thundering or awakened would fit perfectly here in these weeks. They could even bake this affix into tyrannical so building singletarget talents makes more sense and feel better in tyrannical weeks.
Damn Quazii! You hit the nail on the head here! Fuck, if they did exactly what you said M+ would be so much better. I can’t stand sanguine as a tank, having a mob stand there doing some shit that cannot be interrupted and filling to full hp is so dumb. Not being able to bring trash into bosses for fear of healing it up is dumb! Bolstering can kiss my ass too. I love pulling big but what a stressful time it can be. I really hope they make these changes you mentioned.
thanks for your honest take on this announcement. there has to be some scientific merit to study how 95% of the players that participate in m+ have similar views to each other about how to improve m+ but the people who make m+ even when they spell out the intentional logic of their thinking come up with this end result which is what no one asked for and shows a complete misunderstanding of how m+ is interacted with by the players. yet there have been some absolute banger ideas implemented into m+ that are universally loved which make this even more confusing to me at least.
if i were going to make a change it would be get rid of all affixes except tyran and fort, but change the way they work. On fortified weeks the dungeon would feel more like the old teeming affix where the dungeon would be full of large groups of npc's. most of them dont have mechanics but the sheer amount can overwhelm. Big AoE FUN. On tyrannical weeks instead of large groups of npc's the dungeon would be stationed by large lieutenants or mini bosses where the groups used to be and the bosses would get an extra mechanic or two instead of extra health and damage. THIS would make people switch their builds from AoE to single target and maybe give more specs more play time alternating weeks.
then as an extra bonus i would put a menu on the m+ key interface before starting the key to include any one seasonal affix ever created
Quazi one more thing I would like to add is your observations while I feel correct miss one thing. You observations assume mob homogenatity, I think these affixes will lead to people quitting keys when some of the fist mobs in the M+ are easy, and in the back half of an M+ are the hardest/Most synergistic. This can lead to massive time investment with nothing to show for it. In a "good" dungeon mobs are varied with varied solutions. Pushing mob content toward certain solutions could leave to nerfs where because of an affix to certain mobs making it arguably less fun.
Great video, with the rotating dungeon I think its fine if you drop affixes. Also raging does not increase mob damage anymore, just make them cc immune.
Amazing takes man! Thanks for speaking for the community 🙏🏿
This could not have been said better. Cheers mate!! Love the thoughts!
IMO, and I think many agree, the problem is not getting into mid to low level keys as a no-meta class. What problems would there be in adding additional loot for groups that have under-representated classes? Like, one extra drop if a non-meta class is in the group.
I dont think effecting power is the way to go, as Quazii says, the meta comp will always be there regardless, so bringing an incentive with some other system is the way to go imo.
Tank main here too, I'm personally looking forward to the challenge. I personally don't see the issue if PUGs aren't able to run 20s and 30s anymore. In my OPINION ( scary I know) there should be some kind of ceiling for M+ outside of group synergy and routing. I enjoy watching things like the MDI and great push and I think the top end level of keys should be ran by coordinated groups (much like mythic raid) not pugs. I see this as a pug issue, not a dedicated group issue, and again I look forward to the challenge.
I haven't played last season but plan to return for war within. Usually playing bear tank in m+ I feel like the new affixes secure bear to be bottom tank once again. Ignoring amor and more magic damage taken sounds awful for a bear but I haven't read class changes, so maybe I'm wrong. On retirering affixes... keeping all the ones they retire and retire the ones they want to keep would have been a better choice. Even bursting requires massdispell and forces a specific class in the comb that week.
Somone in Blizz forums yesterday suggested an idea I really like: Give us back incorp and similar affixes, but balance it with an attractive kiss: the player who successfully manages the affix gets an 8s 10% throughput buff. Players would go from dreading the affix to competing to manage it!
So much is about attitude. It would make those affixes something to look forward to, friendly-compete over, and laugh about who got it.
At high end gameplay, it could become group strat to make sure player got it who could take most advantage.
Great points and recommendations. You have a good vision of how M+ should be.
This video sums up what I feel about M+ perfectly, I really hope someone at blizz looks at this. A+ feedback.
Great analysis. I agreed with ALL you said here.
I actually stopped doing any M+ above 8 because its the opposite of fun... not even challenging, just annoying!
Unlike the previous 5 expansions where I had a subscription and played constantly, now, I just play the first 1 or 2 months of every patch, curve and leave. M+ as it is, doesn't attract me.