The Epic was always a flagship in the mountainbike world. I rode the 07 modell as my first fully and it was amazing. 10 years later the Epic Hardtail was more capable and faster without any linkage.
It seems the Rocky Mountain Element 2022(3?) had the right idea. When your guys reviewed that bike the geo numbers were out there and questionable…. Now Specialized do it and it’s the “future man”. I reckon those two bikes deserve a comparison.
Totally agree. Think of trek too back in 2022 changing the top fuel to have more ‘aggressive’ numbers than the previous fuel EX… specialized was actually 3 years behind everyone else, so why are we saying the are future? Haha. Also, the price on this thing is ridiculous
@@buildtestflyrepeat9428 the element is .4 degree slacker at 65 degrees vs 65.4 of the epic evo. The frame weight of the fact 12m sworks is 1 pound lighter and the 11m is 0.44 pounds lighter. Not sure what your point is here because those numbers don’t impact the fact that PB are blown away by this futuristic XC bike because of its geo numbers but the Rocky Mountain element has been carrying those numbers for nearly 2 years and it was considered a bit odd to have those numbers when PB reviewed it, even though the bike rides fantastic.
Looking at the geometry numbers - if you brought an Epic Evo from last year, but sized up, you'd pretty much have the equivalent of this bike! I purchased a large instead of a medium epic evo (2023) and the geometry matches the Epic 8 in a medium. Woohoo!
The Scott Spark RC's head angle is already adjustable 67.2, 66.6, 66 degrees with three position suspension. Nice to see some standardisation on brand's XCs at long last...and everything is super lol.
Sizing for tall riders (6’3”+) on xc bikes disappeared when this new slack geometry started. My last xc bike was a 2018 rocky mtn element xco xxl size. I’m 6’6” and it fits me perfectly. But it’s old and time for a new ride. I wish Trek, Spec, Santa Cruz, etc would produce a 21.5 size in these xc bikes.
I really wanted to like this bike. My last 3 bikes were Stumpjumpers. It just didn’t feel right to me during test rides. I ended up buying the Intense Sniper T Pro. I am now in riding utopia. Ride on.
Future? What have Rocky Mountain have done years ago with his XC model, the Element? What is a Yeti SB5T? It was a ... light weight trail but today is called XC?
I know that hating on Specialized is a sport unto itself but I think when you're talking about all arounder bikes the big brands that have to cater to everyone really do that market really really well. My Stumpjumper is a really good example of that. I have multiple bikes, but if I had to go down to only one, it would be my go-to.
If I really wanted to pedal hard, this thing would be an absolute weapon around me in the tight New England trails. The EVO version would probably be more my pace though, with good numbers for use as a fast trail bike.
Great review, love that we have cons as well (as every review should!). And you're such a nice guy not killing that crawling bug 😂 I agree with you about chainstay, adding 10mm made a great difference on my Tallboy 4 so I assume between XS and XL riders they'd want at least 20mm added. As for the bike it looks great, I'd love to upgrade, but as usual the price tags push the brain from impulse back into reason mode.
Just purchased a Pivot Trail 429. This bike’s specs right on top of that, lol. Dario, how would you say they compare? Would have loved to have gotten a chance to ride back to back.
Super sad to see the epic ht going away so I may be forced into getting this seeing as how I have to eventually but I definitely wish the epic ht was still made
Great review! I won the lotto by being in the right place at the right time and was able to get the s-works version. Coming off a 2018 epic pro, I’m blow, blow, blown away! New heights with wide versatility in one bike. The 150mm dropper makes it feel crazy stable on descents through gnarly New England stream bed descents and rugged trail features alike. So smooth and so dam fast up or down. This is a benchmark bike that others will try to catch
Judging from the seat tube angle, I suspect too little pressure on the front wheel, thus more effort is needed to keep the front wheel down on steep climbs.
The Levo SL used to share the same frame design as the Stumpy and that’s had a recent update. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Stumpy follows the same frame design.
@@justinfournier1285 and the new epic evo is the old stumper st from 2018 with slight geo changes and no rear pivot. New epic evo is the stumpy st rebirth
@@downhillmtber2521 I think the industry is deciding on a range of geo. Will be more evolution than revolution going forward I guess, but still lots of tweaking to be done. Hate the asymmetric frame on my SJ Evo. Wish there were more 27.5” options for my short wife.
Yes, it's absolutely identical apart from the frame, geometry, wheels size, suspension, brakes, tyres, seat post, drivetrain and cockpit, but apart from that, they would be the same! 😉
@@LaurentiusTriarius It is if you don’t look at the screen and only stare at my bike while the video plays. I notice it also is a perfect inverted replica of my 12 RMB World Cup using this technique.
My only concern about this "XC" bike is that because it's so slack, going over flat, or even uphill tech terrain the bike may feel floppy. I'll have to ride it to see for myself though.
Epic 8 Pro does t come with brain. How did you manage to upgrade? Can you just add the battery and the wireless brain? Or you have to replace the whole shock system?
Specialized: "It's too expensive to make sure the chainstays scale appropriately with the frame size. Can we spin it to suggest that everyone in the entire world would be suited by the exact same chain stay length? No? Damn. Well at least we can keep the price reasonable, right?" $9000
Cool bike. I have a general question on disc brakes. Bought my first disc braked bike last May and rode max 10 x 30 minutes last year on dry gravel roads or very little mud. Always had it in the apartment before winter storage in a dry shed. Now when I took it out the front wheel jerked to the side when applying the brake. One of the pads were stuck, so only the right one moved. Now I have taken off the wheel three times, applying electronic cleaner and W40 on both sides but they still have trouble moving in and out and never goes back in fully except when being pushed relatively hard by a tool. Is this normal garbage operation? The back brakes seems to be working fine. How I miss rim brakes from my old road bikes. Never any problems during 15 years of riding.
Just cycle each piston through its full stroke, put some brake fluid on the piston when it is almost at full extension. That usually works. You certainly wouldn't miss your rim brakes on a mountain bike with mud and water on them.
As much as I love specialized I hate that they bought the trust fork patent and are just sitting on it. It was a disruptive idea that would have evolved the industry after a few iterations of the product. Unfortunately due to Covid and the supply chains the company went under and specialized bought the patent . Please Specialized, use the patent, I loved the trust fork!!
@@streddaz Even that has a 66.5 head angle, that's the same as my short travel trail bike from 2019, and I can ride steep double black downhill tracks on that, so why do XC bikes need such slack head angles? I wonder if we'll see more front end washout crashes in XC races?
@@streddazYears ago I used to ride technical blues on a 70.5 degree XC bike, and even the odd single black, and I'm no pro, and the whole more technical XC track thing is circular, it goes like this, they make tracks more challenging, so manufacturers make XC bikes more capable, which in turn makes the more challenging track less challenging again, so they have to make the tracks even more challenging than before, and in response manufacturers make their bikes even more capable, which in turn makes the track easier again, and eventually XC will be like enduro.
@@benjy288 ha ha, maybe. Although, making the ride better is kinda the whole point of engineering a bike. It comes and goes. Some people say that DH isn't as hard and technical as it was say, 10 years ago. It is just smooth and fast with big jumps, but 10 years before that it was just smooth , steep and flat with skin suits. Everything changes.
@@joetacchino4470 They all cover different ranges. Epic WC 75/110 travel, Epic 8 120/120, Epic EVO 120/130, Stumpy 130/140, Stumpy EVO 150/160, Enduro 170/170. Plus the geo differences in the Evo models. Remember there used to be a Camber below the Stumpy and that's kind of what the Epic EVO is now.
thats pretty cool. but, $9K??!!! I know that has become somewhat "normal" in this segment. but that is still nuts. You can buy a brand new dirt bike for that much money. It has an engine. Nearly ten thousand dollars for a bicycle, is ridiculous. I get it. it's cool. but ten thousand dollars???!!!!
Always worth remembering when Specialized start chucking about these magic improvement numbers, that only they know how to measure, somehow they're also incapable of putting any weights of their bikes on the website. Massive snake oil salesmen.
The first 7 minuites of this is just specs from Specialized, I wouldn’t call that a review. Really seems like Pink Bike is just drinking the cool-aid instead of riding the bike, reviewing it and comparing the preformance to Specilzied marketing claims. That being said I think the geo is super interesting, I like the idea of putting your weight farther forward I am having issues with that on my Santa Cruz Cameleon 7, even with the seat passed the Max label on the rails.
Dario's coming into his own. He's better when he can just sit in front of the camera and goof off with his script (like Levy)... As opposed to trying to stick to a script between kaz n henry
I love how every new model is 20% more pedaling efficient than the outgoing one.
About 40% more expensive too.
Exactly. This is an outrageous claim
Any review where they didn’t say “poppy and playful” is a quality review as far as I’m concerned. Well done pinkbike!
But poppy and playful are literally favorable traits?
@@kriztyle5295one thing worse than saying "poppy and playful" is saying "literally."
Haha my trail bike is poppy and playful… literally!!
The Epic was always a flagship in the mountainbike world. I rode the 07 modell as my first fully and it was amazing. 10 years later the Epic Hardtail was more capable and faster without any linkage.
How about kinematics?
I wasn't interested in a XC bike before seeing this and now I kinda am, good job Dario.
It seems the Rocky Mountain Element 2022(3?) had the right idea. When your guys reviewed that bike the geo numbers were out there and questionable…. Now Specialized do it and it’s the “future man”. I reckon those two bikes deserve a comparison.
Totally agree. Think of trek too back in 2022 changing the top fuel to have more ‘aggressive’ numbers than the previous fuel EX… specialized was actually 3 years behind everyone else, so why are we saying the are future? Haha. Also, the price on this thing is ridiculous
I feel the same with my Gen1 Revel Ranger
Transition Spur FTW
The specialized frame is quite literally a pound and a half lighter and slacker than the element
@@buildtestflyrepeat9428 the element is .4 degree slacker at 65 degrees vs 65.4 of the epic evo. The frame weight of the fact 12m sworks is 1 pound lighter and the 11m is 0.44 pounds lighter. Not sure what your point is here because those numbers don’t impact the fact that PB are blown away by this futuristic XC bike because of its geo numbers but the Rocky Mountain element has been carrying those numbers for nearly 2 years and it was considered a bit odd to have those numbers when PB reviewed it, even though the bike rides fantastic.
I just want to call out how Epic the location you are filming this is. That backdrop! 😲
That'd be the PNW for ya! Love it here
I use my epic evo as a gravel bike and a mountain bike. Changed out the front chain ring to a 34 to get more speed in lower gears
Looking at the geometry numbers - if you brought an Epic Evo from last year, but sized up, you'd pretty much have the equivalent of this bike! I purchased a large instead of a medium epic evo (2023) and the geometry matches the Epic 8 in a medium. Woohoo!
The Scott Spark RC's head angle is already adjustable 67.2, 66.6, 66 degrees with three position suspension. Nice to see some standardisation on brand's XCs at long last...and everything is super lol.
Yes, but Spark is ugly AF:)
Sizing for tall riders (6’3”+) on xc bikes disappeared when this new slack geometry started. My last xc bike was a 2018 rocky mtn element xco xxl size. I’m 6’6” and it fits me perfectly. But it’s old and time for a new ride. I wish Trek, Spec, Santa Cruz, etc would produce a 21.5 size in these xc bikes.
Scott still has 540mm ST on XC bikes
Nice one Dario! First bike review I’ve been stoked about in awhile
Wonderful review Dario! ...Am ...Am I excited about an XC bike!?
I came for the Bike Review and stayed for the Dating Comments.
Love my Epic 8 130!
I liked the XC bike Trek just released with a very sleek and concealed rear shock.
I really wanted to like this bike. My last 3 bikes were Stumpjumpers. It just didn’t feel right to me during test rides. I ended up buying the Intense Sniper T Pro. I am now in riding utopia. Ride on.
Future? What have Rocky Mountain have done years ago with his XC model, the Element?
What is a Yeti SB5T? It was a ... light weight trail but today is called XC?
Couldn't agree more. This isn't a hard core XC bike, it a trail bike. Put it on flat surface and a proper short travel XC bike would blow it away.
I currently have last years epic s-works evo, and this bike almost makes me want to swop. Nice review!
Dat marketing! They love to empty your wallet!
Levy would love this bike
I know that hating on Specialized is a sport unto itself but I think when you're talking about all arounder bikes the big brands that have to cater to everyone really do that market really really well. My Stumpjumper is a really good example of that. I have multiple bikes, but if I had to go down to only one, it would be my go-to.
If I really wanted to pedal hard, this thing would be an absolute weapon around me in the tight New England trails. The EVO version would probably be more my pace though, with good numbers for use as a fast trail bike.
Great review, love that we have cons as well (as every review should!). And you're such a nice guy not killing that crawling bug 😂 I agree with you about chainstay, adding 10mm made a great difference on my Tallboy 4 so I assume between XS and XL riders they'd want at least 20mm added. As for the bike it looks great, I'd love to upgrade, but as usual the price tags push the brain from impulse back into reason mode.
Now I need to know how this compares to the Super Caliber Gen 2. The 76 degree seat tube is VERY steep for people with long femurs!
So basically it's last years Epic Evo with slightly different geometry. Nice!
Just purchased a Pivot Trail 429. This bike’s specs right on top of that, lol. Dario, how would you say they compare? Would have loved to have gotten a chance to ride back to back.
Super sad to see the epic ht going away so I may be forced into getting this seeing as how I have to eventually but I definitely wish the epic ht was still made
I've got a chisel which is basically an aluminum epic ht. Some of the stock components are not great, but the frame is nice.
Forest green with Fox shock. I am waiting for Epic 9 to be able to buy this modell at a sale. :p
Would love to see a similar review done on the Evo version of this bike... great review as always Dario
The epics always been a dream bike for me
Will stick with my 2023 Epic Evo.
Is that a Specialized windbreaker? If so how do you like it? Thanks for quality review!
another Pro: no hidden cable routing at the headset! Yay! :) Really good review. Thanks.
Great review! I won the lotto by being in the right place at the right time and was able to get the s-works version. Coming off a 2018 epic pro, I’m blow, blow, blown away! New heights with wide versatility in one bike. The 150mm dropper makes it feel crazy stable on descents through gnarly New England stream bed descents and rugged trail features alike. So smooth and so dam fast up or down. This is a benchmark bike that others will try to catch
Dario, single handedly holding pinkbike up.
Did I order the wrong size? I'm 6'2" and got the Large. I have long legs and a short torso and the extended reach of the XL looked too long.
@ Dario Hey man , The Epic in this video have the Flight Attendant Suspension? Great video and picture Quality 👍🤘😎
Nice to see a full sus xc bike with geo is similar to some of the cool modern xc hardtails like the Turner Nitrous and Stanton Sherpa.
Judging from the seat tube angle, I suspect too little pressure on the front wheel, thus more effort is needed to keep the front wheel down on steep climbs.
When is the stump jumper getting refreshed 😮
Stumpjumper Evo is becoming the Stumpjumper and Epic Evo is like the old Stumpjumper.
The Levo SL used to share the same frame design as the Stumpy and that’s had a recent update. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Stumpy follows the same frame design.
@@justinfournier1285 and the new epic evo is the old stumper st from 2018 with slight geo changes and no rear pivot. New epic evo is the stumpy st rebirth
@@downhillmtber2521 I think the industry is deciding on a range of geo. Will be more evolution than revolution going forward I guess, but still lots of tweaking to be done. Hate the asymmetric frame on my SJ Evo. Wish there were more 27.5” options for my short wife.
Couldn’t help but notice the multi tool on the bottle cage. I love them. Does Specialized still make them?
Looks damn close to my FSR from the 90s
But it isn't.
Yes, it's absolutely identical apart from the frame, geometry, wheels size, suspension, brakes, tyres, seat post, drivetrain and cockpit, but apart from that, they would be the same! 😉
@@streddaz Yah thats right exactly the same
@@LaurentiusTriarius It is if you don’t look at the screen and only stare at my bike while the video plays. I notice it also is a perfect inverted replica of my 12 RMB World Cup using this technique.
My only concern about this "XC" bike is that because it's so slack, going over flat, or even uphill tech terrain the bike may feel floppy. I'll have to ride it to see for myself though.
Yep, not an XC bike at all.
Epic 8 Pro does t come with brain. How did you manage to upgrade? Can you just add the battery and the wireless brain? Or you have to replace the whole shock system?
How was the flight attendant system on this bike, considering the three point lockout?
Specialized: "It's too expensive to make sure the chainstays scale appropriately with the frame size. Can we spin it to suggest that everyone in the entire world would be suited by the exact same chain stay length? No? Damn. Well at least we can keep the price reasonable, right?"
$9000
Yes longer reach needs the rear centre to match man. It’s not a fad
Cool bike.
I have a general question on disc brakes. Bought my first disc braked bike last May and rode max 10 x 30 minutes last year on dry gravel roads or very little mud. Always had it in the apartment before winter storage in a dry shed.
Now when I took it out the front wheel jerked to the side when applying the brake. One of the pads were stuck, so only the right one moved. Now I have taken off the wheel three times, applying electronic cleaner and W40 on both sides but they still have trouble moving in and out and never goes back in fully except when being pushed relatively hard by a tool. Is this normal garbage operation?
The back brakes seems to be working fine. How I miss rim brakes from my old road bikes. Never any problems during 15 years of riding.
Just cycle each piston through its full stroke, put some brake fluid on the piston when it is almost at full extension. That usually works. You certainly wouldn't miss your rim brakes on a mountain bike with mud and water on them.
The 2018 stumpjumper st rebirth. Remember, all st frames were fact 11... sworks in 2018
Didn't watch the video, but is the future trail bikes as xc bikes?
There still the Epic World Cup, that's a proper 75mm travel XC bike. There's just a bit more range in between these days.
It's just like my 1960's Mattel!
Great Review.
Mike Levy would love this bike i bet
so this is going to look weird with a drop bar. Is specialized going to offer a "monster" gravel fully soon that has the tire clearance for mtb tires?
Why note that it’s an epic 8 pro but not mention it having flight attendant?
It's like Specialized Marketing dept had a lesson from Tony Ellsworth.....
Huge miss with the chain stay length.
When did Beavis start doing bike reviews for pinkbike?!? I miss Levy.
+ for not giggeling while quoting the marketing bullshit :D
Price is fucking ridiculous.
@purplebike, where is the Ari at?
As much as I love specialized I hate that they bought the trust fork patent and are just sitting on it. It was a disruptive idea that would have evolved the industry after a few iterations of the product. Unfortunately due to Covid and the supply chains the company went under and specialized bought the patent . Please Specialized, use the patent, I loved the trust fork!!
More like this XC bike has become a light weight trail bike, I guess the days of quick steering XC bikes are gone.
There's still the Epic WC if you want a 75mm XC bike.
@@streddaz Even that has a 66.5 head angle, that's the same as my short travel trail bike from 2019, and I can ride steep double black downhill tracks on that, so why do XC bikes need such slack head angles? I wonder if we'll see more front end washout crashes in XC races?
@@benjy288 maybe, might also see less OTB on the ever more challenging WC courses too.
@@streddazYears ago I used to ride technical blues on a 70.5 degree XC bike, and even the odd single black, and I'm no pro, and the whole more technical XC track thing is circular, it goes like this, they make tracks more challenging, so manufacturers make XC bikes more capable, which in turn makes the more challenging track less challenging again, so they have to make the tracks even more challenging than before, and in response manufacturers make their bikes even more capable, which in turn makes the track easier again, and eventually XC will be like enduro.
@@benjy288 ha ha, maybe. Although, making the ride better is kinda the whole point of engineering a bike. It comes and goes. Some people say that DH isn't as hard and technical as it was say, 10 years ago. It is just smooth and fast with big jumps, but 10 years before that it was just smooth , steep and flat with skin suits. Everything changes.
... "It's (the SWAT Box) the nicest thing ever made..." Wow! I see... What a refined and well thought out description.
Think Dario likes this one? I can't tell.
How does a non fa version ride. If the damper tune of the Epic Evo is too harsh in open mode I guess it‘s even worse in the Epic
I stopped watching when the markting crap started "it's 20% more efficient" ...
Does anybody know, which jacket dario is rocking?
In the past they made a nice Brain system today you have heavy electronic... anyway. I like Dario greets from swiss
Only on the SWorks, the rest don't have the added weight of either.
Riding forbidden bikes has told me that size specific chainstay / rear center length is NOT a fad
Yeah… i guess this new Epic will ride extremely different in the size XS compared to XL.
Norco has done it for ages.
Bummed they dont offer size 6, also, really hoping the rumors were/are true of an alloy version.
Here we go, another bike at almost $10k. No thanks.
Epic is now Epic WC...Epic Evo is now Epic 8 and Stumpjumper is now Epic Evo 8. My guess is that the Stump jumper gets a bump to displace the Enduro?
Didn’t even think of that…. Maybe??
But then there is the Stumpy Evo. 😂. Certainly a lot of overlap!
@@joetacchino4470 They all cover different ranges. Epic WC 75/110 travel, Epic 8 120/120, Epic EVO 120/130, Stumpy 130/140, Stumpy EVO 150/160, Enduro 170/170. Plus the geo differences in the Evo models. Remember there used to be a Camber below the Stumpy and that's kind of what the Epic EVO is now.
I think the enduro will become High Pivot. and the SJ Evo might get 10mm more travel but traditional suspension layout.
@@mikeanderson2000 it will be interesting to see where it goes. The Stumpy will most likely follow the Levo SL in frame design.
Tamed down rocky mountain Element.
If it didn't cost an arm and a leg it would be perfect in my eyes.
20% more efficient is huge!
The $9000 pro build doesn't come with the flight attendant system!
thats pretty cool. but, $9K??!!! I know that has become somewhat "normal" in this segment. but that is still nuts. You can buy a brand new dirt bike for that much money. It has an engine. Nearly ten thousand dollars for a bicycle, is ridiculous. I get it. it's cool. but ten thousand dollars???!!!!
You get what you pay for. Why does a rolls royce cost more than a ford explorer?
w vid love ur content pink bike
Love the new BC40 …. Oh wait what?!? 😂
Always worth remembering when Specialized start chucking about these magic improvement numbers, that only they know how to measure, somehow they're also incapable of putting any weights of their bikes on the website. Massive snake oil salesmen.
Man where do I get those clothes?
Shame the cheapest option is $6500 cad. Can't see that ever being in my budget.
The first 7 minuites of this is just specs from Specialized, I wouldn’t call that a review. Really seems like Pink Bike is just drinking the cool-aid instead of riding the bike, reviewing it and comparing the preformance to Specilzied marketing claims. That being said I think the geo is super interesting, I like the idea of putting your weight farther forward I am having issues with that on my Santa Cruz Cameleon 7, even with the seat passed the Max label on the rails.
Dario's coming into his own. He's better when he can just sit in front of the camera and goof off with his script (like Levy)... As opposed to trying to stick to a script between kaz n henry
flight attendant worth the money?
Impossible Climb! Impossible Climb!
Rad!
Beat PB presenter hands down 🤌
‘XC bikes just enter the future.’ Specialized gone full Scott on Epic Ocho..
And the new colours are 29% more in style than the old colours, going with silly percentage ‘upgrades’.
So pretty much the same geo numbers as the current Scott Spark
Thats pretty nice santa cruz blu....i mean specialized..
Dario's vocal frye is unbearable. Could PB pay for some vocalization coaching?
Where can I get vocal coaching online? Any tips or coaches you could recommend? My voice is a problem and limiter for me.
Ahh, amazing 👏... It's 10k... oh, maybe in 5 years 😢
Hmm product gimmick...
But I love it...
These guys have been reviewing DownCountry bikes for quite some time but suddenly this is the future? This is obviously a paid review.
Tin foil hat brigade has entered the chat.
Are these AI comments?😅
So 12k Canadian dollars
Who are you?
Who are you?
Just entered the future?? scott bike was all ready in the future
ooo weee... $$$$$$$$$$$$. Scalpel SE 1 is on sale for $4300 at the moment with carbon wheels and bars. hmmmmm