I'm not quite sure, but it seems as though this form of sharpening would benefit the so called "Tougher" Steels as opposed to the "High Hardness Edge Retaining" Steels. As I said I'm not quite sure as their will need to be more testing done and data. Once again incredible work Pete and thank you Gabe from The Home Slice Channel. You guys are doing this industry such a great thing. Have a great day all.
It does appear that way in the 5 tests that we've done so far. Looking forward to continuing ot figure it out. Thanks for the feedback and encouragement Nate!
I have been a fan of 4V since I got my first St. Nick's Spyderco. I have within the past year got 2 Kizers - mini Sheepdog and Sheepdog - in 4V. Near as I can tell, the Kizer 4V is as good as the Spyderco 4V. Hope more manufacturers expander into 4V.
I bought a paramilitary 2 yesterday, stripped one of the pivot screws, and now I'm pissed. Friggin red loctite! Just thought I'd share with you guys because nobody else in my life care about knife stuff. Thank you for your time.
@@DanielReyes-hz1qk I stopped there to do more research. I wasn't even really planning on fully disassembling it yet. I was just going to adjust the pivot to get an action I like. Gonna try boiling it maybe.
@@carlodanger8187 I'm using what I thought were good bits. Never had a problem before. But I've also never run into red loctite before. Best method for heating? Boiling, hairdryer etc?
The masters of hard (60+) steels, Rockstead, preach that a strong edge on a very hard steel comes from meticulous polishing. The theory going that they are intrinsically brittle, so potentially prone to chipping. However, for a chip to develop, there must already be a microscopic fissure in place. If it’s not there, it’s hard for one to develop. Hence their obsessive polishing. I wonder if this differential sharpening of harder steels leaves them open to chips developing along the course sides striations? Perhaps a super fine polish might be more robust? Rockstead claim that their 67RWC ZDP189 is good for 1,000 cuts in much thicker sisal rope will produce o noticeable degradation in sharpness. It’s a maker’s own test, so must be taken with a pinch of salt, but taken at face value, it’s an impressive result and their methodology could do with some testing. I wonder if they’d lend you a knife to test?
Dude your integrity is not in question, we appreciate your efforts to make them continuous but S*&^ happens and having your result of the test is way more important. Thanks as usual for your (and Gabe's) efforts to further our hobby.
Great work Pete! So interesting to me that: 1) 4V out-cut Maxamet with the fancier sharpening equipment. 2) Also interesting that the gains were higher with my original method and my original stones which I had considered to be very very basic and budget (your M390 and M4 dual grit test knives were stropped on cardboard, lol) 3) Probably the biggest takeaway for me in these recent tests is that either a) You need a wider angle to support the thin burr on dual grit (and making it too acute causes the apex to de-stabilize) - this could be why the working edge lasted SO much better on the first knives tested (at 20 dps), or b) I need to do careful analysis of my technique to remove the small burr more fully while leaving the large, beneficial dual grit burr as an additional portion of narrow razor-edge. Every test, my mind is flooded with excited thoughts and theories. Thanks for doing another one Pete!
Yeah, I put that edge on my knife right between cutting off the front quarter and rear quarter but definitely before cutting out the backstraps, and I’ll tell ya it just kept going right through splitting the ribs from the chops… gotta love that steel and edge retention from the way it was sharpened like that!!!
Thanks Pete. I really appreciate your edge testing. I tried the duel edge method on a mystery steel pairing knife I own. It was razor sharp but the edge rolled within two weeks. I ended up re profiling and going back to polished edges. It's not quite as sharp as my fuel edge initially was but my mirror polished edges seem to last far longer without getting damaged. Keep up the great videos. Thanks
Really enjoying my Critical Mini in 3V too. On their website they have a few models listed as "coming soon" in 4V, Mini Sheepdog, Begleiter, and Feist.
Hi Pete, do you have a jewelers loupe by chance? you can get a 30-60x magnification one for like $10 USD, and it's an absolute game-changer for being able to take a close look at edge deformation, burrs, scratch patterns, etc. Thanks for making these kind of super-specific videos - always love the channel.
You will absolutely get hundreds of thousands of subscribers if you keep your nose to the -grindstone- _sharpening stone._ It's wholly relevant content, presented entertainingly, and with excellent production value.
Great stuff Pete. Any chance in the future of microscope still photos of the edge damage/wear, maybe just via one of those shitty USB microscopes? Or is that a rubbish idea?
Love your tests, thank you for your hard work and diligence. I can see you are in winter, I wish I could trade places as I really do not like the heat.
If you can get your hands on it. Should try the new magnacut steel, its supposed to be in the 4v range in toughness, and my have better edge retention.
Keep experimenting, I'll keep watching. Like you I have theories about what caused this or that. No way to confirm but I have theories. Bro science is good enough till I see something more convincing. Love the rope cutting soundtrack today !
One polished , one rough... hmmm.... interesting... I think I’ll give it a go mate! Hey Pete, have you noticed how many people watch your channel?! It’s insane!
Is there any modern folder with similar blade geometry to an Opinel No. 8? No knife I have is more satisfying to use but every one of them is more satisfying to EDC.
I recommend you get a regrind done on a knife you like. My first was n Elmax para 2 with a Krein regrind to 0.005 and it spoiled me. The way it cuts is like nothing else. If you can find it, the Spyderco Nilakka was ground crazy thin. Original was zero ground with a slight micro but it being s30v and sharpened on a grinder the edge was weak until you ground it off. Newer once were ground to about 0.005 to fix that. Great knife. I found a few slipjoints that come under 0.010 stock, Joker knives makes one, Fantoni Dweller(but they're discontinued now), a few TwoSun slip joint were pretty thin and I hear Manly slipjoints are ground that thin too. They make a back lock but I'm not sure how thin those are ground. Some of the Japanese Spydercos are pretty thin like Centofante 3 and Caly 3/3.5 and Calypso. Like Pete mentioned Chaparral is a nice cutter. I bought a few clones from Hilbert knives that are ground pretty thin too, not sure your feeling on those. And you can get a custom knife from a right maker to fit your needs. Some who are just starting out don't charge too much. Good luck.
The Centofante is even thinner than the chaparral but it's vg10 and you cant disassemble it. Most civivi hollow grinds are around 12 thou behind the edge and are pretty amazing cutters
I'm getting a little frustrated with sharpening right now! I'm using the stones and I'm quite proficient at it but I'm having an issue right now. I can get it paper cutting sharp but it won't shave hair like it should. I'm using an 400,1000, 3000 and 8000 stone system. Along with the strop but it won't get that hair cutting sharp I'm on a pretty steep angle and sure it's around 18-20° but it's not doing like I want it to. Any help would be appreciated but I'll keep plugging away on some cheaper blades and hope it comes back soon!!!!
What type of steel and what type of stones? Are you using a guided system or are you freehanding? My best guess without an answer is you aren't fully apexing the edge on your low grit stones or you aren't removing the burr correctly. I freehand and I can produce shaving sharp edges from a 320-400 before stropping. Make sure you apex and then lighten up your pressure (a lot) and minimize the burr as much as possible
@@tacticalcenter8658 😭😭😭 I'm tweaking like a junkie, worst part is that I pass the blade store on my drive home from work everyday, the temptation is REAL
@@lincoln5775 I feel for you man. I bought S90V folder recently for sharpening training purposes, and now I'm considering buying Maxamet as the next step :s. That stuff never ends
@@Owieczkin Godspeed homie, the thing that kills me the most is that Im a broke 20 yr old so when I do splurge on a new blade it really takes a dent out of my funds lmao.
If I send you a Kershaw Blur M4, can you please do a review on the steel, play around with a goofy edge, 600 on one side, 1500 on the other. Or one mirror, one course. Just go nuts. I’m looking to get into UA-cam, start a general review channel (just ordered a guided knife sharpener too) and I can’t think of a better Segway into creation of a channel with a contribution of a knife inspected and sharpened by the man the myth the legend. I’ll pay for shipping both ways and PayPal you for your time and effort. I can’t stop watching your videos and in two weeks of discovering your channel I bought a Delica and a Kershaw Blur because of the M4 steel. Reason for this entire comment; I am highly skeptical of the M4 steel claim, and even if it is real, I feel the thickness of the blade, or lack there of can contribute to subpar results. I’m not expecting a mythical 1,000 cuts but if it holds up to at least 500-600 I’ll be impressed. Let me know what you think, love your work. Please don’t be discouraged by your numbers, I’ve seen other you tubers reference you, and that’s how I came across your work to begin with, and I’d do the same if and when I start making content. I need to lay off the coffee, and I wish you well brother.
@@nandayane um... The mule team project isn't new. And they never sold out right away before they brought it back. You must be new to this market. They used to drop info on releases a day or more before release on a few forums. Not sure if they do that now or not. But I'd say most people buying all the new ones are collectors who will never use it.
I’ve been aware of the project since the S30v mule, but haven’t tried to buy one until now. I know that most sales are either for collection or secondary market. I reached out directly asking for a release time and got nothing. I have seen them mention release months, but if there is a way to get more specific info so would love it.
Do you have a list of all your results? How large a difference would it take to see a "real world " benefit? How many feet /meters of rope do you go through in a year? Thanks.
Pete i love ur sense of humor my friend, please keep inspiring us with ur awesome knife videos
I'm not quite sure, but it seems as though this form of sharpening would benefit the so called "Tougher" Steels as opposed to the "High Hardness Edge Retaining" Steels. As I said I'm not quite sure as their will need to be more testing done and data. Once again incredible work Pete and thank you Gabe from The Home Slice Channel. You guys are doing this industry such a great thing. Have a great day all.
It does appear that way in the 5 tests that we've done so far. Looking forward to continuing ot figure it out. Thanks for the feedback and encouragement Nate!
Oh absolutely. The toughness holds up those micro teeth.
I have been a fan of 4V since I got my first St. Nick's Spyderco. I have within the past year got 2 Kizers - mini Sheepdog and Sheepdog - in 4V. Near as I can tell, the Kizer 4V is as good as the Spyderco 4V. Hope more manufacturers expander into 4V.
@Patrick Henry - Knife Center exclusives. You can see pic on my IG.
kizer does some good shit especially for the price range they sell stuff at. you can pick up knives in 3v and 4v from them for under $100
@acid6urns - agreed. Their 3v is good as well. I got a 10v Kizer Harpoon Mini for a ridiculously low price of $60.
I got Kobold 2 in CPM 4V!
I bought a paramilitary 2 yesterday, stripped one of the pivot screws, and now I'm pissed. Friggin red loctite!
Just thought I'd share with you guys because nobody else in my life care about knife stuff.
Thank you for your time.
That's the worst man. I think many of us need each other for that same reason
Sorry to hear that, always unfortunate. Were you able to get the knife apart or did you have to stop there?
Heat it up and it should come out. Also use good bits
@@DanielReyes-hz1qk I stopped there to do more research. I wasn't even really planning on fully disassembling it yet. I was just going to adjust the pivot to get an action I like. Gonna try boiling it maybe.
@@carlodanger8187 I'm using what I thought were good bits. Never had a problem before. But I've also never run into red loctite before.
Best method for heating? Boiling, hairdryer etc?
The masters of hard (60+) steels, Rockstead, preach that a strong edge on a very hard steel comes from meticulous polishing. The theory going that they are intrinsically brittle, so potentially prone to chipping. However, for a chip to develop, there must already be a microscopic fissure in place. If it’s not there, it’s hard for one to develop. Hence their obsessive polishing. I wonder if this differential sharpening of harder steels leaves them open to chips developing along the course sides striations? Perhaps a super fine polish might be more robust? Rockstead claim that their 67RWC ZDP189 is good for 1,000 cuts in much thicker sisal rope will produce o noticeable degradation in sharpness. It’s a maker’s own test, so must be taken with a pinch of salt, but taken at face value, it’s an impressive result and their methodology could do with some testing. I wonder if they’d lend you a knife to test?
Dude your integrity is not in question, we appreciate your efforts to make them continuous but S*&^ happens and having your result of the test is way more important. Thanks as usual for your (and Gabe's) efforts to further our hobby.
Great work Pete! So interesting to me that:
1) 4V out-cut Maxamet with the fancier sharpening equipment.
2) Also interesting that the gains were higher with my original method and my original stones which I had considered to be very very basic and budget (your M390 and M4 dual grit test knives were stropped on cardboard, lol)
3) Probably the biggest takeaway for me in these recent tests is that either a) You need a wider angle to support the thin burr on dual grit (and making it too acute causes the apex to de-stabilize) - this could be why the working edge lasted SO much better on the first knives tested (at 20 dps), or b) I need to do careful analysis of my technique to remove the small burr more fully while leaving the large, beneficial dual grit burr as an additional portion of narrow razor-edge.
Every test, my mind is flooded with excited thoughts and theories. Thanks for doing another one Pete!
Your knowledge of the plethora of available steels is mind blowing, I bow to your wisdom Bro.
I love super specific stuff.. keep it going my Aussie friend
Yeah, I put that edge on my knife right between cutting off the front quarter and rear quarter but definitely before cutting out the backstraps, and I’ll tell ya it just kept going right through splitting the ribs from the chops… gotta love that steel and edge retention from the way it was sharpened like that!!!
Thanks Pete. I really appreciate your edge testing. I tried the duel edge method on a mystery steel pairing knife I own. It was razor sharp but the edge rolled within two weeks. I ended up re profiling and going back to polished edges. It's not quite as sharp as my fuel edge initially was but my mirror polished edges seem to last far longer without getting damaged.
Keep up the great videos. Thanks
3:43 hopefully magnacut fills that role
It will for sure. It was designed for that purpose. CPM Magnacut is not a game changer - it is THE game changer...
Interesting interview with Larrin Thomas about Magnacut among other things over at River's Edge Cutlery channel
4v/V4e will always be my favorite steel. Though k390 is a close second
I've fallen in love with 3v. I had never used it, but Kizer made the critical mini and it is a workhorse. Really want to try 4v
Really enjoying my Critical Mini in 3V too. On their website they have a few models listed as "coming soon" in 4V, Mini Sheepdog, Begleiter, and Feist.
I've tried Gemini in 4V and then another Kizer in 4V: Kobold 2. Hope these keep coming
Hi Pete, do you have a jewelers loupe by chance? you can get a 30-60x magnification one for like $10 USD, and it's an absolute game-changer for being able to take a close look at edge deformation, burrs, scratch patterns, etc. Thanks for making these kind of super-specific videos - always love the channel.
This is my favorite channel
You will absolutely get hundreds of thousands of subscribers if you keep your nose to the -grindstone- _sharpening stone._ It's wholly relevant content, presented entertainingly, and with excellent production value.
Great stuff Pete. Any chance in the future of microscope still photos of the edge damage/wear, maybe just via one of those shitty USB microscopes? Or is that a rubbish idea?
Love your tests, thank you for your hard work and diligence. I can see you are in winter, I wish I could trade places as I really do not like the heat.
If you can get your hands on it. Should try the new magnacut steel, its supposed to be in the 4v range in toughness, and my have better edge retention.
I'm not a Spyderco guy at all. But that knife is fabulous! Both the shape and the scales. WOW!
Wow, that hand saw in the background has done some hard yards.
Keep experimenting, I'll keep watching. Like you I have theories about what caused this or that. No way to confirm but I have theories. Bro science is good enough till I see something more convincing. Love the rope cutting soundtrack today !
I'm good, I'll apex normally and remove the bur on the edge. But more power to those that want to do dual grit edges.
Love your content. I wonder if this type of sharpening would make 1095 last longer too…?
One polished , one rough... hmmm.... interesting... I think I’ll give it a go mate!
Hey Pete, have you noticed how many people watch your channel?! It’s insane!
"right above that grossly chewed finger nail. Gotta quit doing that, what am I 10" lmao
I've always thought polished edges turn into ragged edges on their way to dull. Why start with a ragged edge??
The cutting music was like weird game show music meets incidental music from a weird 80's fantasy film.
CPM 4V AND duel grit sharpening by Gabe the Home Slice? This'll be good!
Is there any modern folder with similar blade geometry to an Opinel No. 8? No knife I have is more satisfying to use but every one of them is more satisfying to EDC.
closest I could point you at is the spyderco chaparral
I recommend you get a regrind done on a knife you like. My first was n Elmax para 2 with a Krein regrind to 0.005 and it spoiled me. The way it cuts is like nothing else. If you can find it, the Spyderco Nilakka was ground crazy thin. Original was zero ground with a slight micro but it being s30v and sharpened on a grinder the edge was weak until you ground it off. Newer once were ground to about 0.005 to fix that. Great knife. I found a few slipjoints that come under 0.010 stock, Joker knives makes one, Fantoni Dweller(but they're discontinued now), a few TwoSun slip joint were pretty thin and I hear Manly slipjoints are ground that thin too. They make a back lock but I'm not sure how thin those are ground. Some of the Japanese Spydercos are pretty thin like Centofante 3 and Caly 3/3.5 and Calypso. Like Pete mentioned Chaparral is a nice cutter. I bought a few clones from Hilbert knives that are ground pretty thin too, not sure your feeling on those. And you can get a custom knife from a right maker to fit your needs. Some who are just starting out don't charge too much.
Good luck.
The Centofante is even thinner than the chaparral but it's vg10 and you cant disassemble it. Most civivi hollow grinds are around 12 thou behind the edge and are pretty amazing cutters
Civivi Incite is crazy thin behind the edge.
@@CedricAda "GLASS CANNON" DO YOU PLAY VIDEO GAMES? LIKE A MMO ?
I'm getting a little frustrated with sharpening right now! I'm using the stones and I'm quite proficient at it but I'm having an issue right now. I can get it paper cutting sharp but it won't shave hair like it should. I'm using an 400,1000, 3000 and 8000 stone system. Along with the strop but it won't get that hair cutting sharp I'm on a pretty steep angle and sure it's around 18-20° but it's not doing like I want it to. Any help would be appreciated but I'll keep plugging away on some cheaper blades and hope it comes back soon!!!!
Trained basic metal workshop skills 50 years ago ...
Be humble, become a part of it - no distance
It's zen after all
What type of steel and what type of stones? Are you using a guided system or are you freehanding? My best guess without an answer is you aren't fully apexing the edge on your low grit stones or you aren't removing the burr correctly. I freehand and I can produce shaving sharp edges from a 320-400 before stropping. Make sure you apex and then lighten up your pressure (a lot) and minimize the burr as much as possible
Interesting knife Steel test
All of these uploads are making me want to shop! Alas, tis the first of the month and my rent is due :,(
Don't let addiction run your life.
@@tacticalcenter8658 😭😭😭 I'm tweaking like a junkie, worst part is that I pass the blade store on my drive home from work everyday, the temptation is REAL
@@lincoln5775 I feel for you man. I bought S90V folder recently for sharpening training purposes, and now I'm considering buying Maxamet as the next step :s. That stuff never ends
@@Owieczkin Godspeed homie, the thing that kills me the most is that Im a broke 20 yr old so when I do splurge on a new blade it really takes a dent out of my funds lmao.
Do you try to control moisture content of the rope?
You should try sharpening this way one time Peter and see what happens
What a beautiful knife…drool
The edge looks like this: VVVV
I'd vote for an equal portion of seeds for all flightless birds.
Nah. The most seed should go to the most deserving flightless birds. Stay free, stay capitalist.
Someone needs to send you CPM magnacut
Is the music from final fantasy?
Yup, and other FF ost are in previous videos as well as some Persona ost and Black Mages
Magnacut when tho
If I send you a Kershaw Blur M4, can you please do a review on the steel, play around with a goofy edge, 600 on one side, 1500 on the other. Or one mirror, one course. Just go nuts.
I’m looking to get into UA-cam, start a general review channel (just ordered a guided knife sharpener too) and I can’t think of a better Segway into creation of a channel with a contribution of a knife inspected and sharpened by the man the myth the legend.
I’ll pay for shipping both ways and PayPal you for your time and effort.
I can’t stop watching your videos and in two weeks of discovering your channel I bought a Delica and a Kershaw Blur because of the M4 steel.
Reason for this entire comment; I am highly skeptical of the M4 steel claim, and even if it is real, I feel the thickness of the blade, or lack there of can contribute to subpar results. I’m not expecting a mythical 1,000 cuts but if it holds up to at least 500-600 I’ll be impressed.
Let me know what you think, love your work. Please don’t be discouraged by your numbers, I’ve seen other you tubers reference you, and that’s how I came across your work to begin with, and I’d do the same if and when I start making content.
I need to lay off the coffee, and I wish you well brother.
I'm READY~!
Am I the only one fascinated with the idea of collecting Spyderco Mules?
The secondary prices make it pretty obvious that you aren't.
I did, its not worth it.
How does one even buy a mule, they sell out within hours of being dropped and spyderco keeps it’s lips tight about when they drop.
@@nandayane um... The mule team project isn't new. And they never sold out right away before they brought it back. You must be new to this market. They used to drop info on releases a day or more before release on a few forums. Not sure if they do that now or not. But I'd say most people buying all the new ones are collectors who will never use it.
I’ve been aware of the project since the S30v mule, but haven’t tried to buy one until now. I know that most sales are either for collection or secondary market. I reached out directly asking for a release time and got nothing. I have seen them mention release months, but if there is a way to get more specific info so would love it.
Let’s see that k390 in dual grit 👁👄👁
EDGE LORD'S UNITE!
Hey Pete do you like 4v better than k390?
nah i like the k390 more, its probably ny favorite
Polished micro serrations? Hmm.
It has already been done
Use end grain wood for your cutting surface, much easier on the edge
Knifegrinders did a test on cutting board surfaces. Suggest you read it on his website or watch the vid on yt.
what happens if you just give the blade some straps??
Do you have a list of all your results?
How large a difference would it take to see a "real world " benefit?
How many feet /meters of rope do you go through in a year?
Thanks.
Spreadsheet in the description.
he is nuts! hahahaha
We can't believe you! We won't be tricked!
I came for the grossly-chewn finger nails.
From each according to his ability, to each according to his seed.
Wait.
No.
The edgelordiest edgelord of them all!
I like pizza
First ???
Yes. Yes you are.
Dammit!
@@charlescollier7217 Woooooohooo
@@ncsEsper There's always next time Sir.
At what exactly?