This happened over 5 years ago, but I will never forget when I had an accident and got a concussion and my girlfriend at the time told me that she did not consent to me having boundaries around how to interact while I was recovering. My head was pounding and I was sensitive to noise and light so I had asked her to speak a little more softly. Apparently my request violated her consent and I was trying to manipulate and control her by asking her to speak more quietly right after I got a concussion.... At the time I fell for it. I honestly thought I was a shitty, abusive girlfriend because I got a concussion without her consent.
It seems like a lot of people say “I’m setting a boundary” when really they just want to make up a rule and you don’t get to object to it because now the rule is tied to my emotional wellbeing.
If you think your partners boundaries are illogical or not conducive to your way of life, it’s time to end the relationship. It’s not that crazy of a concept.
@@uhok6712I tend to agree except in cases of coercive control. Sometimes there’s people who put their “You can’t have friends of the opposite gender!” boundary in their dating profile bio. You swipe away from that. Other times they love bomb a person for weeks and then state the “boundary.” The love bombing has also led this person to cut off communication with other loved ones so now it’s not as simple. It’s still the best choice to leave though.
@@theobservantsome9095 I get you, I’m just saying it’s laughable to be shocked that people in the world have made up rules about life that are tied to how they feel about things. Like… yeah literally everyone has those.
It's amazing how close therapy speak and corporate speak are to each other. The problem with both of them is that the entire point is to remove emotion from the conversation. And while this is can be a positive thing in business, and useful in therapy for self analysis, it's an insult in a relationship that is, after all, totally based on the feelings we have for one another.
well yeah, however sometimes if you let any emotion out at all it would result in a counterproductive argument. If you need to put down your foot in regards to an issue, for the other person either to accept the boundary or be put of your life for good because it is too much, it's the only gpod option. It's a much better way to end things than just getting angry at them or whatever, and especially important if you have little experience with setting these types of boundaries.
@@JonathanMandrake I would simply argue that therefore needs to be a conscientious acknowledgement of those emotions... I love you and really hope you can find a way to accommodate this because it's really important to me and I want to have you in my life. Or something
@@mrjdgibbs I can understand that for relationships where there is still trust and all. However, if there is some event that has made you lose trust in them, made you think they are manipulating you or lying to you for years, I think it can be very useful. If you lose trust or can't afford to be emotionally vulnerable, it's the best thing you can do. Esp if you find yourself in a seemingly abusive or manipulative relationship, and need some distance and all to figure out how bad things are and all It seems to me like you never really were in that kind of situation, which would be great for you, but I had a few manipulative friends and if i knew gow and where to set boundaries, it would have been way better, and this would have been a great way to do so
@@JonathanMandrake of course every situation is different, there are no one size fits all solutions, and I'm happy you found a useful tool to protect yourself. Most things have a downside and an upside and we're all just doing our best.
This is how everyone talks in reality shows like love is blind and the ultimatum. It’s possible to use therapy language without sounding pretentious. Ana, you don’t have to worry because you do not give off “therapy speak”. You’re articulate in an extremely compassionate way.
I thought this too! And I've noticed that the more someone uses "therapy speak" in those shows, the less they seem to be able to be introspective and empathetic. Can't know for sure of course because of the heavy editing those shows go through, but that's the impression I've got.
They do it to give the characters depth and try to redeem them the short time they're on the island. It's hard to say if the contestants really come with the baggage, but they definitely use past behavior as a crutch to hurt others. If anything, it's to make it seem less black and white and more nuanced so that none of them are absolute villains. It's an attempt that people quickly lose the essence of when they don't think about why they're employing therapy-speak. They want us to care about these horndogs, and for that, they need to be able to show growth.
I think people are mixing up boundaries with deal breakers. I think there are some people who go to therapy but don't use it introspectively and instead use it to diagnose and control others
That's an overgeneralization but it certainly does seem to fit the bill sometimes. I can't tell when I'm being overly cynical or realistic about society anymore
It shows the issues with uncritical self-affirmation. "You are good, you are worthy, you deserve a treat" are not helpful ways of thinking unless you actually put the work in.
It depends on how the words are being used... Similar to social media, or the growing popularity of AI. They can be used to interact with others who you haven't seen in a while or as a way to network towards a career...and it's also been used to throw around insults, promote cyberbullying, and emotionally harm human beings in some way. It's a tool that can used either for bad or good. The technology itself isn't inherently bad.
I know a girl who recently started therapy and she is pretty horrible; arrogant and narcissistic. She doesn’t have many friends because of these unlikable personality traits. The therapist told her she was too self-critical, which is obviously the worst kind of feedback for someone like this. Face palm
@@alanmcivor2005 narcissists can be extremely self critical so the point isn’t bad advice. she needs to learn how to question and critique herself without beating herself up
One of my biggest frustrations in life is double standards when it comes to boundaries. So many times I have had people trample all over my own boundaries and do things to me that i'm not comfortable with, and their response is always "grow a backbone" "you need to stop being so sensetive" etc. Meanwhile, if I accidentally cross a boundary they never even told me about, it's the end of the world and treated as if I'm some kind of monster. I HATE people who expect everyone else to respect them and their boundaries, but have ZERO respect for the boundaries of anyone else.
Thats their problem. If you do something "wrong" and I never told you I don't want to be spoken to like this or whatever. It was never a boundary. That's control. If I valued you I would have discussed this with you or at least if it came up I wouldnt treat you like trash. It is on the boundary setter to express their boundaries not the other way around. People aren't mind readers. To expect that says more about them.
The one that pisses me off is when they make it out like they never should have had to set the boundary because it's "common courtesy" or "something you should just know." Instead they say one thing to your face and badmouth you behind your back until they have a case against you and an army to back them up. Total bait and switch.
@@jupitersnoot4915 if I think of a boundary as a rule for myself, then it always works out. If I say, I'm not going to associate with people who aren't nice to me, or who are difficult to be around, then it's my rules for me. If people treat me how I don't want, I follow my rule and stop being around them. Or whatever distance I can create at the time until I can get away from them .
I like that you are brave enough to suggest that there are some boundaries that are inappropriate or that we should budge on. As someone with BPD my boundaries are probably too flexible and at times I have probably expected a similar excess of flexibility from other people when I shouldn't have. However, I have been thinking for a good few years now that a lot of people's boundaries are becoming excessively harsh and rigid, like they no longer take into account the other person's situation or the relationship between the two of them: "You must be perfect or else I'm disappearing forever"...reminds me of my superego tbh
my ex with BPD suggested I did exactly that. When she was abusive towards me every day, she screamed at waiters, went off on me when a conversation wasn't about her for once. Got to the point I feared her so much I couldn't sleep beside her anymore. When I opened up about it she got aggressive again. I realized she wouldn't respect my boundaries so I left. She tried to blame me for just giving up on the relationship, but working on it wasn't possible. I'm glad I have boundaries, I also have tolerance and empathy, but when you end up with an abusive partner they are all you have.
I had a best friend with BPD, I chose to cut all contact with her. I did not like that I had to assert my boundaries often, or that I was expected to be so mindful of her but she couldn't be bothered to return the same gesture to literally any of my boundaries that meant anything to me. You can't expect people to just stick around just because you're friends, or to forgive you always. What you end up doing is using guilt to keep people around and continue to ignore their boundaries. Suck it up and stop being toxic.
@@levi-ly5vg Dude, I already admitted that my own boundaries are probably too flexible more often than they are too rigid, and as a result I try to be careful to make sure I'm not being too pushy etc. with others. That doesn't mean that other people's boundaries are never excessively rigid. People having overly rigid boundaries is an example of how some people weaponise therapy-speak: they seem to think that by calling something a boundary, they can essentially coerce other people into behaving exactly as they want. Maybe in your situation you were right to enforce your boundaries and you did so appropriately - I wouldn't know as I wasn't there and don't know you or your ex best friend. But just because I have the same disorder as her doesn't mean that we have identical approaches to boundaries. It's fairly likely that we're in the same neighbourhood, but even in the same neighbourhood there can be a lot of variation. Plus, I've been in therapy for many years at this point - over 3 years continuously, but going back 8 years on and off - so my internal boundary issues don't necessarily end up reflected in my behaviour, even if they used to pre-therapy.
@@andrewphillips-hird3761 It applies to anyone with or without BPD. Especially when people seem to have rigid boundaries we should respect those, it doesn't mean you get bossed around. Actively respecting other people's boundaries will always remind you to reassess and hold firm on your own. Everybody is going through something, we all have emotions, sometimes we will be in points of our lives that we are terrible to be around and bless the heart of the people who stay, however it is in all our best interest to not subject ourself to unfairness in a friendship or even just off vibes.
Haven't finished the vid yet, but I've always thought that the way people talk about "boundaries" is totally wrong, and what they actually mean is EXPECTATION. Your "boundary" is not something that you tell someone else to do. a BOUNDARY is the point at which YOU will walk away from the situation. You can have expectations for what you WANT someone to do but that's not a boundary and the other person does NOT have to meet your expectation.
and you don't have to continue with the relationship. it's semantics. all of it. A boundary is an expectation. IMHO, a boundary should work both ways. It's absolute. While an expectation can be one sided.
Relationships can have boundaries as well. What you are talking about are personal boundaries. For example, being close to your exes isn't something a lot of people aren't comfortable with. Some people are naturally flirty and they might have to tone it down as a compromise. It's fair to set limits on behaviour in relationships.
I've been thinking the same thing about how people use the word 'needs' especially emotional needs. Most of the time they are not actually needs, just wants, and that's okay to have wants but we need to be honest about what they really are.
What exactly do you think a boundary is? Something exclusive in with things can go within and others can't, but what would that entail? Expectations perhaps? What is this semantic game we're trying to play lmao.
I’d suggest therapy speak is a warning sign that there’s a breakdown of trust or communication between the two people, especially when it’s done over text or is behind a cold veneer. Words are one part of the communication - what is the body language, context, and meaning behind the words themselves. If you replaced ‘boundaries’ with ‘wants’ or ‘operating model,’ Is the expectation now selfish-seeming or limiting?
I’ve definitely been subjected to this, where the individual turning it on is distancing themselves from the relationship/from me when honesty and vulnerability becomes inconvenient for them. It can kind of be a form of gaslighting where they treat you like that coldness and formality was always there. It’s fascinating (and infuriating) to witness in that context.
Or it just means they're too vulnerable to speak with you "normally", therapy speak is the only way I can address issues to/with my parents and try to make them stop, I'm actually more opened this way about my feelings.
@@melodi996 I appreciate you saying that. I can see how knowing some of this terminology would help you communicate better with somebody, especially if you’re able to use more universal terminology that might make the other person see your perspective as more valid.
I was freaking out a little, because the way I approach life is through a structured self-analytical and systematically-analytical lense. In a relationship for instance I talk about creating proper communication channels, and setting up proper systems to dynamically handle both of our needs, as I have BPD and OCD, and my partner had depression. I realize that it's not necessarily how you talk that's the problem, but rather your sincerity and use of the language. I use it to properly reflect my structured thought process on how to most accurately set a healthy base of a relationship so I can cultivate the most trust and love with someone, while mitigating miscommunication, drama, and other shit.
As someone who has both received therapy speak and used it myself, I have a theory as to why it is used by some people. They don’t like conflict and the therapy speak is a tool to distance themselves, end a relationship, whilst not being horrible to the other person or using their authentic voice. For example: True feelings: “Jessica, I don’t want to be friends with you anymore because you’re a selfish b*tch and I find you extremely draining to be around. I can’t be bothered to listen to you constantly whinge about your sh*tty boyfriend anymore and never take my advice.” This would undoubtedly cause a huge argument with Jessica. Now for the therapy edit. Therapy speak version: “Jessica, unfortunately I can no longer continue our friendship, as my emotional energy/labour is not being fully reciprocated. I care about you and when you don’t listen to me it hurts. I have to put down some boundaries and distance myself and protect my own mental health. I hope you understand” This is not how the sender truly feels but it is way less likely to cause an argument when Jessica, when they simply don’t want to be in the friendship anymore. This tactic is probably used most by people who have the fawn/ friend trauma response, who simply can’t be in the relationship or friendship anymore.
This is my experience, too. I find that people who are just learning about boundaries and how to set them after living an entire life of being told that what they need doesn't matter, and therefore knuckling under, are more likely to lean into this when it comes to confrontation and assertion. Sort of like they're practicing. As someone fortunate enough to have experience, and sound more natural using this kind of language (though I still dislike confrontation... who doesn't?), one of the things I've had to learn is to be kinder to those who are still learning ✨ and that has been MY challenge
Damn, my ex is a therapist and watching this video made me realize that she was weaponizing “boundaries” to manipulate and control my emotions. This was an enlightening video. Thank you.
As a therapist myself, this is one of my worst fears, that I'll do this to somebody from my position of "knowledge" and "authority." I tell my partners my job title immediately and ask them to hold me accountable to not do this. I hope that will help.
I have watched a relationship like this. It was so hard to see my friend constantly being made to feel invalid and gaslit. I lost a lot of respect for my friend who was the one weaponising the speak.
@@Ukraineaissance2014 I hate to know the therapists you know, then. I think you have to mediate being a therapist with some type of spirituality and maturity before the therapist can be healthy...but that's just like any other occupation/person. These two things dampen a person's inherent selfishness.
The number of abuseive therapist I’ve experienced is so disturbingly high I often recommend to people to read self help books first so they can get an idea when a therpist is messing them up…and if dating one make sure to see a good one at professionally at the same time to make sure they don’t get stuck in a bad situation. Like I wish I was kidding I have no idea how some f them are allowed to see patients.
I feel like every year there’s just a new “term” to define someone’s personality or behavior but most of the time it’s always just another way of saying they’re a bad person
What happened with "life comes in shades of gray". Just labeling others bad isn't... How should I say it...good. Essentially we should try to solve problems together rather than saying that a specific person is the problem
Set too few boundaries, some people will use you. Set too many boundaries, fewer people will want to be around you much; this number may approach or reach zero. It's just part of life: Get the balance right.
I cant remember where i heard this, but someone said its not anyone elses responsibility to maintain your boundaries. A boundary being crossed raises alarm bells for the boundary holder in order for them to know it is time to act. I feel like some treat their boundaries as "laws" in the sense that instead of saying "hey, you did this and that bothered me" they say "you crossed this boundary, YOU need to do something to make up for it." Its very detatched, almost like their saying "well, its not me forcing you to apologize. Its my boundary and thats just the way it is."
I don’t think it’s productive to speak so vaguely about boundaries. I had someone, without my permission, rub their ass on me recently and make fun of a friend of mine who OD’d-to say the least, I was upset because they did cross a boundary. I completely wanted and expected an apology from this person.
While what you say sounds good in theory there is a place where it falls apart. It absolutely is partly my reslonsibility to enforce and respect my wife's boundaries, they arent just an imaginary line that exista only for her to react to when crossed.
@@elfsongtavernThe situation you described was a crossing of your boundary. You understand you had a choice of how to react to the nonconsensual event, yes? Some people leave, some stare, some grab back, some call the police, and some are both unhinged and armed-that last group would shoot the person who brushed against them without consent. Would doing so be “legal?” Probably not, but the law applies a consequence for breaking the law, which was the OP’s point. Some people weaponize therapy speak to weaponize boundaries. E.g. the creep in your situation could tell you they “did not consent to you stepping away and saying stop, you’re really disturbing the perpetrator’s peace and breaking a boundary by acting out like that.” If someone is setting a boundary out loud to others, they need to know in their own head what they will do if that boundary is crossed, then stick to it. Suppose a husband says to his wife “my boundary is that when I come home I expect dinner on the table and you don’t respect me and all the hard work I do when I discover you’re at work instead of in the kitchen when I come home.” Or a car driver running a motorcycle off the road because the car driver’s boundary is “to immediately and without regard for safety zoom across all lanes not occupied by cars as soon as the turn signal minimum time is reached, regardless of whether a more vulnerable road user is legally occupying the lane.”
Someone used this boundary shit on me once. They told me I make them think too much by being too deep, which violates their boundaries because it makes them bad at parenting. When people weaponize therapy speech, it's not rational. This is not a boundary, and her solution to the problem made no sense either. This is her using me as a scapegoat for other issues in a toxic relationship.
Definitely agree it's the intention behind the therapy speak that matters...Sometimes, it's also just nice to be able to talk to people normally and directly. "hey, you did this and that bothers me because..."
But that was the goal of therapy speech lmao. To be honest and speak ones feelings without being hindered bei misunderstanding or trying to insult your conversation partner, that's the goal 😂.
@@funnyvalentinesglorioushai2227Exactly. Communicating directly is hard when you are using rude, emotionally charged or too ambigious language. It's better to just discuss calmly and clearly! That's not a bad thing
This is such a perfect video and analysis of "therapy speak" and why its so bad, compared to how therapy and self-work can actually be so helpful. It reminds me how social justice language is being co-opted in so many other areas too. The things that especially grinds my gears is that boundaries--while they can be so many things--are a way to get closer to other people. To me, boundaries in relationships are like saying "I want to feel good in your presence, here's some ways you can do this for me. How can I do that for you?". While therapy speak like you said is so individualistic, and to me, feels like it blocks you from getting closer to other people when theres no understanding or negotiating of boundaries
this video is so affirming and important to hear. My therapist tells me that “boundaries are for no one else but yourself, it’s only in your control to choose what to do when they are or aren’t being met by others” but this takes it a step further and helps me better understand that aspects of certain boundaries might be holding me back. As someone with PTSD it’s hard to face the “why” behind a boundary, but it’s vital to explore their existence and the feelings surrounding them. I honestly tend to feel more at peace with myself and others when I make a boundary clear if it’s been crossed, by being vulnerable but not making a demand or expectation.
i think, like most topics, there has to be some nuance. But twitter and tiktok are places where nuance goes to die lol. It's not always as simple as "doing this makes you a bad/insufferable person". Some forms of "therapy speak" may be helpful for people who are not very good at expressing their opinion/feelings about a situation, relationship etc. At the same time, boundaries, emotional intelligence, empathy and compassion are a two-way street; you can't expect everyone to respect all your boundaries and treat you with empathy while you are not trying your best to do the same to others. Yes, I understand there are situations where people genuinely do not have the capacity to extend superfluous amounts of compassion to others but I'm not sure the people that do this fall under this category.
I think you're spot on with the two-way street part. Heavily criticising or cutting off a friend is always hard on both people, and I feel like the examples shown here are an attempt to do that without taking responsibility for the emotional fallout. Healthily navigating these situations requires vulnerability from both people; we have to acknowledge ugly feelings and personal flaws, or at least entertain the possibility we have them, and say things that could be interpreted as whiny/demanding/petty/cold. Dancing around what we're doing and how we feel with buzzwords and false civility, leaving little room for people to argue back without looking bad, might comfort *us* but it doesn't soften the blow to *them*. As Ana argued, it's probably good as a last resort for people for whom other communication methods have failed. That or the person's done something bad enough to obliterate your respect for them, and/or if directly saying something negative to them could be dangerous for you. They're all situations where the person can't reasonably demand empathy and patience from others. And yeah, I think "therapy speak" can be useful in some contexts too. They can be great shorthands for complicated feelings and relationship dynamics. It's just using them inappropriately, either twisting their meanings or using them every other word to seem more enlightened, that's problematic.
I went to therapy for a long time to deal with trauma and honestly it really helped to journal more than it did to be actually in therapy. Don't get me wrong, it was comforting, but being on medication and journaling on my own was so much more healing. It helps you get clear about how you really feel and holds you accountable from your own point of view, rather than another person's. This works for me, but I need my support group, like my friends and partner. Wishing everyone the best on their healing journey and definitely listen for this weaponizing of therapy-speak!
You can have whatever boundaries you want, the problem comes from feeling entitled to jam other people into those boundaries or use them to control their behavior. Your boundaries may be reasonable to some and unreasonable to others, as long as you're not trying to force them on others it's probably ok, but if the majority of reasonable people find your boundaries to be unreasonable then you're going to end up very lonely.
An ex friend went to school to become a therapist, and he has absolutely weaponized therapy speak against the old friend group wherever he could. He’s also a pro at projecting and creating situations in his head that never happened. I pity all of his clients, I can’t imagine he suddenly turned around to help patients. We just all have to remind ourselves that we weren’t the problem, the friend group is all still friends, he’s the only one no one speaks to anymore.
That's marvelous. (My head cannon is that your therapist is a cat though) Therapists really can listen and care about you and challenge your assumptions about others
My therapist put it perfectly. Boundaries are the limits of MY actions only. Telling others what they can and can’t do is controlling and rulemaking, not boundary setting.
Shit is, your boundaries probably also limit her actions - you'd probably be not okay with her spying on you, or behaving excessively violently towards you. If boundaries were really only about your own actions, sadusts and psychopaths woukd have much less excuses to pass control as self-protection. But, unfortunately, we live in the world we live in
@@y2k629your action would be leaving them if that boundary is violated (or talking with them, or whatever you do when the relationship isn’t working out). You can’t force them to not cheat. There was this one tiktok vid that described boundaries well IMO: imagine you are a sheep. you set a boundary for a wolf to not cross. the wolf crosses the boundary. you can’t physically kick them out, theyve already crossed the boundary. if you ask them to not cross it, and they cross it anyways, the only thing you can do is move away from them, so *you* are in control of moving them out of your boundary by moving yourself (and therefore your boundary) away from them. so in a relationship this would be leaving (or maybe taking a break) from someone who cheats on you.
@@y2k629Suppose the boundary is stated as “no cheating” but the person who is repeatedly cheated on does nothing to end the relationship. That’s a non-boundary, like labelling an unlocked door “employees only” while advertising to customers that they can use the restroom behind that door. Better to relabel the door, or remodel the restricted area, or both. The person whose boundary is “no cheating” who then breaks up with their SO who cheated, is following the boundary. The person who takes the cheater back over and over is not enforcing the “no cheating” boundary. The person who knows the “other party” they “saw” their SO “cheating with” was actually their SO’s sibling and the “cheating” was them standing in line at a convenience store? That last example is clearly not setting a boundary, they are being a controlling rulemaker in the guise of “enforcing a boundary.”
Boundaries are contextual and situational. As you said with your dinner date example, some boundaries should be flexible in extenuating circumstances. The way some people use “boundaries” is incredibly unnuanced and seems to be a way of legitimizing rigid, controlling behavior under the guise of healthy self-respect. It’s important to examine why we have the boundaries we do, as well as how flexible those boundaries ought to be, whether such boundaries are reasonable to have, and the potential impact they could have on other people.
It goes both ways, people also use the word “controlling” too rigidly to justify virtually anything, like cheating or alcoholism for example and call protestation against such things “controlling behaviour”. These two concepts are always in an arms race it seems.
This is such an important conversation. We need to ask why we have the boundaries that we have and if they fit the context that we put them in or whether they’re reflections of our insecurities or past experiences
@@Diogenes-96at the same time there is nothing wrong reflecting and examining your own boundary as well. Some boundary might based on past experience that is not valid anymore. For example, someone might ate a very badly cooked fish when they were young and decide to put boundary on eating fish. Nothing wrong, but if that person re-examined their boundary they might find that they actually enjoy well-cooked fish and have more enjoying life, or they might still hate fish and keep the boundary. Either way is fine. Still, reflecting on boundary help bring yourselves to the presence.
@@chakritlikitkhajorn8730there's a huge difference between a boundary in a relationship, whether platonic or romantic, and a dislike, which is what you're describing with the fish example... no reasonable person is attempting to force anyone else to eat fish, and no reasonable person is getting upset that someone offers them fish for dinner. that's not a boundary, it's a dislike.
@@articulated_claviclesbeing upset that people don’t eat what you do or insisting that it’s wrong to eat what they like is one of the most common problems brought to family therapy
Therapy speak is what helps cheaters get away with their bullshit. So ashamed to have been fooled by the "controlling" narrative in my past relationship.. current partner and I at least had a laugh about it though
Therapy speak is how my friends and I find it easiest to communicate with eachother/others. We have histories of family members, friends, and partners being very manipulative and dismissive of our feelings, so it’s very hard for us to communicate how we feel without laying it all out in a very structured and polite way to avoid conflict and misunderstanding. It’s sad to hear that the misuse of it is making people hate therapy speak. I’d never ask my loved ones to stop posting certain things or stop hanging out with certain people. Their life is theirs and my life is mine, and we’re always happy to meet in the middle even if that takes therapy speak to get there.
But that is your perception. What's to say that the problem isn't actually you and not all the other people you mentioned? Because the common denominator is you.. I am highly suspectful of someone who portrays themselves to be constant victims to everyone in their life because that's just not possible/realistic. I can bet that you do many of the things you accusse others of doing. In life everyone is both abused and an abuser even if it's some minor things.
@@ciobalina7445where did they say there was a problem with them? They said the problem is people misusing and weaponizing therapy speak. I agree with them. Just because you have mistrust doesn’t mean that therapy talk can’t be helpful. I also have a history of growing up with people that are abusive at worst and dismissive at best. I don’t think that everyone else today in my life are the problems. But that doesn’t negate that the way people in my earlier part of my life acted fit the criteria for abusive and dismissive behavior. Therapy talk when used right can be very effective at communicating. Maybe ask yourself why you’re so distrusting of people’s intentions?
It sounds like the therapy speak is just untreated trauma playing out. I hope you get better, but life won’t be easy if you can’t communicate normally.
I am in a tough situation with my gf (verge of breaking up basically). Her aunt is a therapist and she just keeps talking about her "boundaries" and how "I am stepping over her boundaries". At first I felt anxious as I am from an abuisve family and when I was in therapy I was taught that ny boundaries should be honored and to ya know not hang out with people who don't respect them. During my therapy sessions these were actual boundaries to prevent being a doormat and to not get into abusive situations anymore. My gf is just using the word as almost a filler word: "because I hang out with you I don't have enough me time and now I feel tired, because my boundaries are not being respected". If she would have just told me "hey, I get tired when I don't have enough alone time. I am gonna spend some time alone now" I wouldn't be honored, but by putting the blame on me (and partly on herself as well, but still) I just feel incredibly guilty when everytime we hangout I am being told that because of me they couldn't spend enough time to be around and rest. Especially since they only tell me this after we already hang out.
It doesn't read like you've told your girlfriend how her actions make you feel in enough detail. Maybe she will change her ways. Although it seems like there's a lack of emotional intelligence on her part. Also consider exploring where the feelings of shame come from and how you can work with those feelings. Just letting negative emotions linger without processing them will tear a relationship (or a person for that matter) apart. Stay strong and don't despair, I'm sure you will happiness with her or someone else 🙏
i think if u wanna be with her you’d need to have a conversation with ur gf.. tell her u care about her and that u wouldn’t try to deliberately or intentionally step over their boundaries. that whenever she feels tired, she could just tell you and it’s okay bcs we’ll adjust. hanging out is great but you wouldn’t wanna sour the memory looking back if it turns out they were already feeling socially drained.. what if yall started checking in w each other so this isn’t a reoccurring issue? the resentment from the both of you seems like bcs there’s no clear communication and you’re frustrated.
If she has boundaries, she has to 1) make them known 2) make sure they're protected. That means 1) she should tell you 'hey I need some time alone' and if you keep insisting despite that, then you'll be stepping over her boundaries. 2) she should take that time alone and not wait for your permission or anything. After that if you continue to take no for an answer, then she may want to get even more distance from you. But it sounds to me like some of these elements were missing, e.g she didn't communicate with you where she stands and is just blaming you for not reading minds.
I have not only had therapy-speak weaponised in dismissive ways, but been actively therapised when not asked for, and in an accusatory manner (and had assumptions made about me and my life experiences that were wildly off-the-mark). It's stopped me from opening up almost completely as a result, these days, from even putting myself out there. I've seen it happen to others and seen it be used to stigmatise whole groups of people, such as people with cluster-B personalities (regardless of whether those labelled had such conditions or not). I can't stand it. People watch some videos or have therapy for a few months and then think they're experts and then browbeat people with it (instead of even being empathetic). As someone who's been in the system for well over half my life, I am just.....so tired.
The current society promotes dominating others, or at the very least being more "powerful" than others. That's our current social situation and it's so destructive.
yesss. Either way, it's a drag being goaded into what is probably a one-sided communication. Mirroring, but creepy, culty, cold, distant and with 'fake love'. Reconstructively deconstructive.
Im glad i am not the only person that felt crazy when i would hear people who speak like this to come off as "corporate". Its like they have a script that they subconsciously read when they are given a situation that they don't feel comfortable in and try to tell me how to act and behave around them in a "compassionate" way. Like how spiritual and/or religious people try to condemn you on something you do that they dont like, but they try to disguise it as a backhanded compliment. I am glad people are talking more about this, because i feel like it only brings people to view therapy as another form or useless/harmful medical treatment.
This is one of my worst fears; I am constantly double checking the way I speak in personal relationships because I don't want my friends and family to feel like I am medicalizing their behavior. I don't even use the word 'boundary' outside of work. It's a trial and error process, and every once in a while I still hear the accusatory "are you analyzing me?" or "don't therapize me!," and I also get asked advice very often, but I think it's crucial to keep trying to sound 'normal' when transferring our career skills to our every day life. We have a massive advantage when it comes to understanding our feelings and the feelings of others, so other people who know of our profession naturally feel under-armed when interacting with us. It is not our job to make everyone feel ok, but it is our social responsibility to make sure at least our family and friends feel comfortable. "With great power, comes great responsibility."
On the contrary, you have a gift and you owe it to people to give them the truth, if it will bring them wellness and the ability to truly love one day. That's how I view my similar gift, it seems anyway haha I do not use therapy speak to do this haha and for some, there just is no receptiveness. For most, I find a way to get through to them for my part. I find it interesting that I feel so differently about it as a spiritual counselor versus you being the therapist.
I've been feeling this way about how therapy is used to promote this hyper individualist sense of social obligation, thank you for finding a way to explain it.
I get frustrated with therapy speak because im autistic and have always struggled to be a better communicator, and often people use their formal and "great" self care and communication skills to disregard that other people are human. i will be trying so hard to get my true feelings across to someone, and they will take one of my miscommunications and decide that means i am a toxic person. i understand that i am not perfect and i like everyone have toxic tendencies that i constantly have to identify and work on, but instead of talking to me about it like a person, therapy-speaking people feel like they're talking to me like i am a child and they clearly know more than me and are on a totally different level. just talk to me like im a person. please. i want to learn but i cant if people constantly shut me out and stop seeing me as a human being if i make a mistake or miscommunicate.
With the rise of the internet came discussions about mental illness, which on its face is a good thing, but, as with anything on the internet, it kinda led to people feeling comfortable being armchair psychologists/psychiatrists and to self diagnose as having GAD and clinical depression. Framing normal emotional responses as persisting ‘depression’ or ‘anxiety’
You know what now that I think about it, my abusive narcissistic family has been using condescending "therapy speak" on me for years in order to appear like the sane, rational, level headed ones in order to make me appear crazy and uunhinged.and garner sympathy from others. Like they do f*cked up stuff to me to get me to a point I boil over and react, then they label me an "emotional terrorist" and then they are enforcing THEIR boundaries with me after repeatedly violating my boundaries for decades then shaming me for distancing myself from them like I'm choosing to not have a relationship with them then tricking me into coming back just to mess with my boundaries again then I blow up and now I'm the one being disrespectful?!?!
On therapy speak: My personal pet peeve is when abusers use "boundaries" as a way to avoid accountability. Stonewalling, ghosting or breadcrumbing are manipulative tactics, not boundaries. On boundaries: I read something very helpful from a mutual online on the distinction between a real boundary and controlling/manipulative behavior. - A boundary is defensive and doesn't diminish agency. :) - An imposition diminishes agency and is not a boundary. Though I personally believe abusers co-opt everything! I'm afraid they could also frame their manipulative behavior in terms of "agency" or the opposite, the autonomy of their victims, as "imposition".
I like that you covered this passive-aggressive behavior. When people have used it on me, I call them on what they actually just said to me in real meaning, and they have always tried to deny it or complain that I'm not following the rules on some technicality. I don't play that game. Mostly these people are no longer in my life, and for the best. I think it's the tool of cowards, liars, and gaslighters, and I've been around long enough to learn I can't change those people.
I end up sounding cold and therapish when i am attempting to communicate while dissociating. As someone who is autistic, this tool has been instrumental to help me communicate in SOME form. I do, however wish to never use boundaries to hurt others. Boundaries are SUPPOSED TO BE a defensive tool. I try to keep my boundaries limited to direct interactions with me. I.E. Don't yell at me like i am 5 years old.
I’m a huge enthusiast of ‘Intercultural Communication’ field of Social Science: I really enjoyed the collectivism vs. individualism remark. You got another sub babes ✨ 🌼
Boundaries are a negotiation. If someone has very strict boundaries, they're allowed to have them, and they should be prepared to have less options if it limits their options. Romantic relationships are not a human right, and so if they are strict, you should find someone else. It's frustrating to see people abuse boundaries for manipulative purposes, because other manipulative people can use those examples of abuse to then abuse you and gaslight you into believing your fair boundaries are manipulative. One of my boundaries, is that I will maintain distance from people who continue to treat me in a way I don't appreciate, especially after I explicitly tell them that I don't like it. I'll try to be subtle about it, and make sure that people don't have to "choose between me and their friends". My biggest goal is for me to do what makes me comfortable without imposing on others, and in return I expect people to not unreasonably impose on me. I can be nice and help people, but will not tolerate people trying to peer pressure me or guilt me into things. It's really disparaging, because many of us were not good at setting boundaries, and have been violated by truly toxic and manipulative people. And when we learn to properly set fair boundaries, we do better in life, and gain good jobs and relationships. Because we are in a better place now, and successful, people see us as someone powerful and successful, people can perceive our reasonable boundaries as unfair. For manipulative people that are used to getting what they want from manipulation, of course legitimate boundaries will feel like oppression to them. They probably misused boundaries to extract what they want, and to uno-reverse anyone calling them out for it. Glad you brought up this topic.
The way my last fight with my mom was about her ‘setting a boundary’ that I never argue or have disagreements with anyone else (mainly my siblings) while under her roof at family events because she has a right to peace in her home (regardless of why the disagreement is happening). Like… ok? I guess I’ll just never go to your house then babe. Maybe we don’t even have to talk, ever.
What a breath of fresh air. Thank you for speaking on this issue. Just because the format or tone of your message is "appropriate" doesn't mean the content is. The issue by and large remains a lack of genuine self-reflection.
This made me realize that my ex best friend when she broke up with me over text saying that she felt like the relationship was very one sided and that her needs weren't met and that she no longer wanted to put energy into or continue the friendship. I was completely blindsided by this as she had never brought up anything around this conversation before and I was so hurt because would have done everything I could have to make her feel like her needs were being met had I had any idea that she felt that way.
This has needed to be said for a long time. Everyone today is dealing with “trauma” and going through “traumatic experiences.” Everything you don’t like is “abuse.”
I feel like part of it is just people becoming more aware and calling out bad parts of their childhoods more but also another big part is just people exaggerating how bad things were too in some cases.
@@chuckyou9945it was helpful to hear when a therapist called my experience of violence in childhood trauma, because it left lasting psychological symptoms and disorders, but I seriously wonder where the line is, and these days trauma is just any unpleasant event and people "diagnose" everything from their armchairs or whatever chairs
Yes that's cause literally every human being has trauma and we're at an age where we can acknowledge that and get help to ease the pain of it and don't become addicts or a karen.if someone is open about their trauma and that makes you uncomfortable then just distance yourself from that person is really that easy. Even you have traumas is literally impossible to not have any. If you deny it means that you're incapable of introspection and are causing damage to the ones near you
Well that's a bit different. Trauma isn't something that just makes you go into fight or flight mode whenever you're reminded of it. Abuse isn't just physical or extreme either. The human mind is scary good at making good memeories out of horrible experiences. Introspection and help can end up showing some people that "Maybe my parents calling me fat since 12 years old messed me up." Or whatever you wanna say. They're definitely different levels of these things though
I think it’s more like anything that goes against your personal autonomy is abuse, this including anything someone has already politely asked you to stop doing.
My biggest gripe with the therapy speak boundary convo is many folks enforce rules and toxic mentalities on their SO's under the guise of a boundary and healing in therapy that MUST be followed or else. A boundary is what I do in response to someone and a rule is me asking someone to change how they behave. These boundaries and rules can be reasonable/unreasonable and easy to do or is conflicting with your partners needs. Then you can decide how flexible those are. If a need you have is strict monogamy or 1 day a week min quality time, then you can 100% understand moving a date night for a busy week (flex) but be very firm in defining cheating as your end of the relationship. Talking to a SO about what is a boundary and rule for you is hard but not impossible. For example, If I tell my wife she can't leave the house or have friendships, that's toxic n abusive rules. A better way to put this is if you are friends with exs, I don't feel comfy with you spending time alone with them. Regardless of my insecurity and jealousy, I trust you and I can't stop you from doing that because its not my place to stop you. However, if you do I will be upset and we may talk about those feelings from time to time. It's on me to deal with jelly feelings or insecurity and it may help if you process those feelings with me. Then she can decided if it's okay to talk or deal with that TOGETHER. BUT as a fyi, If you cheat, I will leave the relationship and that's it for us. Those are boundaries that are healthier yet firm. Far better than what Jona asked for monogamous folks.
The bigger issue here is the implication. If we normalize therapy speech, then it could raise awareness for therapy. However, it could also undermine therapy, at least by public image (which i believe is more important than some piece of papers among the scientific community), as people would no longer believe in true therapy, but going from weak remarks would decide against seeing a therapist.
all the speculation about that Jonah Hill situation aligns with my own experience and problems with therapy speak. the speculation hits the nail on the head: therapy speak is WAY too vague. It allows people to "set their boundaries" and only talk about their reaction to something they perceive as a problem, without going into the problem itself: whether they mean to or not they are guilting you into submission where it is difficult, if not impossible, to engage in deeper discussion. The person on the receiving end may not even know what the problem is and may be left really hurt and confused. It's a horrible form of miscommunication but it feels good to people because it allows them an easy out of talking about uncomfortable topics and feelings. It allows them to avoid doing any shadow work on themselves guilt free and with the illusion of "self improvement" and "self care". the fact you had to speculate on those texts yourself and analyze what the context MAY be just proves this. Only a few texts are shared but I guarantee most instances won't give any more clarity even with more context. the receiver just doesn't get it.
Jonah Hill's boundaries are not my boundaries, but you're not entitled to date Jonah Hill. I think it's fair to say, "if you act this way, we will break up", and it doesn't really matter what, "this way" is. If it's unacceptable to you, don't date that person. Date someone else.
That's a fair perspective, but she did have that job and lifestyle before they were dating. If that was outside his boundaries isn't it kinda bs to expect the her to let go of her passions to suit his emotions? If I couldn't handle people seeing my partner at beach I wouldnt go looking at surfers for my potential partners.
Completely fair and valid perspective. I think Jonah is a goofball because he knew her lifestyle and values were incompatible with his and he still tried to make it work which it wouldn't. That is where he loses me. She was a surfer prior to meeting you and her entering a relationship and expecting her to upend everything she was prior for you is just straight crazy 😂. He dated someone with zero compatability and wanted to force shit.
@@bag-o-bags Then it was on him to leave the relationship. Trying to control your partner's job is not appropriate if he changed his mind it is his responsibility to leave.
I have been in group therapy and I've heard people do this. It's hard to identify sometimes, but I'm getting better at it. One thing that helps me see it is asking, "Is this person enforcing their own boundaries? Or is this person asking someone else to enforce their boundaries?" It's fine to say, "I will not be in a relationship with a woman who speaks to other men," but it's not ok to say, "You can't speak to other men if you want to be in a relationship with me." The problem is, if the person says, "I will not be in a relationship with a woman who speaks to other men" and enforces that, then they will most likely never be in a relationship because most women would not accept that condition. So they get into a relationship without making this expectation clear, then say, "You need to respect my boundaries." The thing is, they did not respect their own boundary when they got into the relationship in the first place. It's up to you to enforce your boundaries. It's not reasonable to expect other people to maintain that boundary for you. And if having a certain boundary means cutting yourself off from other people, and that's not something you want to do, then you need to change the boundary, not other people.
Yeah it's so embarassing how people are learning to Express themselves and not being perfect at it. They should stop and go back to not communicating or trying to take care of themselves to stop embarassing themselves
@thijsjong not necessarily true. Not everybody knows how to "communicate normally". Some people use this kind of extremely formal and clear and specific communication because they DONT know how to communicate like everyone else and have spent a lifetime being misunderstood and misinterpreted.
I love this video! I've been in therapy since I was 6, and therapy speak is a very natural way of speaking for me because of that. But I've noticed something similar with the idea of boundaries. It's such a tricky topic, especially in romantic relationships. Something I've learned from being married is that marriage is a constant rotation of checking in to evaluate what needs exist for the both of us, and to see if someone's needs aren't being met. Sometimes I have to go outside of my comfort zone for my husband, and that's ok. Sometimes my husband has to go outside of his comfort zone. But also, sometimes, there are times when there is a real boundary and that needs to be negotiated to figure out a solution. I'm not taking about MAJOR things here, but for example I get sensory overload at the grocery store. My husband likes going grocery shopping with me and finds it helpful to have a shopping buddy. So we work around this by having him do the "big grocery shopping" on his own, and we do the smaller quick-trips together to Trader Joe's or Wholefoods or what-ever.
My (now-ex) partner of 4 years started setting boundaries like "you are not allowed to speak to me for any reason, in any format, barring abject emergencies for the next 2 days because you did not leave to visit your mom like you said you wanted to. This is not a punishment, it's a natural consequence of your actions." Mind, I chose not to visit my mom because we had one car - his - and he wanted to use it that weekend too. People with unaddressed issues around controlling others will use therapy speak to feel justified in trying to control the people around them while feeling like the good guy.
You’re so brilliant Ana, your videos always get me thinking and uplift my soul. I believe boundaries are set with ourselves about behaviours/situations we will protect ourselves from. It’s more of an expectation if it concerns what someone else is allowed to do.
I've definitely known people who used therapy speak as a way of dodging around helping others. You can help them all you want but the moment you want to briefly share a minor life event it's "I don't have the space for this"
My girlfriend expresses her emotions to me like this and then says I need to go to therapy. She has BPD and constantly brings up I may have something undiagnosed. It's rather annoying.
i can see how that can be annoying... i would hope they aren't accusing you of having bpd or anything specific they are just trying to share something that has helped them also this world we live in is traumatic and we aren't really taught how to handle alot of it it helps those of us even without a diagnoses
maybe she's trying her best to communicate, bpd is hard enough, maybe this way of speaking is her trying her best to communicate in a healthy way? She's trying to reach out to you and connect with you and you're complaining about her in a youtube comments section.
Tbh it would probably help her a lot if you did go. BPD recovery happens a lot faster if the people in the close support network are on board with the treatment plan. They can understand why their loved one had such a strong reaction and learn ways to reassure the person and be less defensive. There's not really any harm in going if you have the financial means to. You could go to a therapy session with her, and talk with the therapist about ways she feels invalidated/fears abandonment (very common BPD triggers) and then you could work together to be a support while also keeping yourself emotionally safe around her when shes having a really bad episode - it could help make your relationship even stronger. I think a lot of people in relationships see it as "I don't need therapy I'm not the one with the problem" But you don't have to have mental illness to improve your communication and find ways to manage stress.
@@alrighttumbleweed4782it’s not his job to speed up her recovery. If she has a personality disorder it’s mostly on her. It’s not his job to walk on eggshells to avoid her endless abandonment triggers that she will likely use to control and manipulate him. often times people with BPD project their issues on their support system bc they are unable to face how they are the problem. I’ve seen Reddit posts where people with BPD abuse therapy speak for getting out of why they cheated on their partners.
Thank you Ana. This video put my feelings into the words. Its confusing to feel like you are being controled while the other person is just “setting their boundry”. Now I understand better what is happening.
Narcissist has been thrown around so much that sadly it loses its definition and the meaning becomes whatever the public make it. Therapy is still in its infancy as a means of helping ppl and this is not helping.
I honestly believe that it has a lot to do with younger people (and no, I'm not a boomer 😅) not having the same amount of unsupervised social interactions as previous generations. We end up being pretty helpless around people a lot of the time, unable to deal with conflict and completely surprised that some people (including ourselves) are just assholes sometimes. And not necessarily narcissists.
Therapy is not in it's infancy at all. This kind of stilted therapy speak making it's way into the general public is what's new. I agree that "narrcisist" has become incredibly overused though. People caring more about themselves than other people sometimes isn't "narcissistic".
@@BiggieTrismegistus What part of therapy could be considered a science? Of that science, how therapeutic is it? What part of therapy could be considered consistent and developed?
Yup. One problem that I and some others have is really telling the difference between being articulate and honest, with good intentions...and not using "therapy speak" as a way to weaponize and not come off as pretentious. I do agree that it depends on how it's used, and that they are tools that can used for either bad or good intentions. The context matters and the blame shouldn't be put on the words themselves...really it's on the person who is using those words. Plus, sometimes just listening and being present, can be better than trying to offer a detailed solution right away. People who have anxiety and depressed don't always want a solution thrown as them(either as a way to say "get over it" to them or as a brush off). Sometimes they just want a listening ear or a shoulder to lean on. Thank you for making this vid.
I'm part of a group that uses some therapy speak as shorthand to inform others of where we are struggling or to day thank you for accommodating a need we did not articulate. I think it can go both ways but has a place as a useful tool to articulate needs when in a hard place.
This video almost made me cry! I used to be friends with two girls who would consistently do what you talk about in the final minute of this video. They would say something hurtful in therapy speak, and I would be the bad person if I disagreed. Conversely, if I wanted to express how I felt to them, I was also the bad person, because I wasn't using the exact right phrasing (let's say I said "I don't like it when you do that" but I should have said "I feel hurt when you display this behavior"). It got to be so bad that I'd sometimes start sweating and shaking when I had to text them. It's so hard to explain to people why I'm not friends with these girls anymore, but this video hits the nail on its head. Thank you for giving this phenomenon a voice.
I really like your channel, I forgotten that i had subscribed to it! So, I got hit with therapy speak for the first time in 2009. I was so dense that they ended up having to tell me plainly that I wasn't attractive. It's weird because I am not very direct. This has worked for me by keeping me out of trouble sometimes, like with dangerous people, but I feel inept at talking to people I don't know. People have used something like therapy speak as a sort of subliminal double talk, as I perceive it. And I see why people use it. In this day, who wants to make enemies? If you're talking about that, you must be gansta! Most of us aren't. Since those days, I have learned more about taking hints, understanding my own worth, and just asking myself what other people want from me. It's just a learning curve, and we all come to it in our journey. I don't really expect much from people, trust them, and I'd like to do without them most days. But that's another story. ❤
i loved this entire video! every point was very eloquently put and i would absolutely agree; therapy speak is not the issue, it's the people who are weaponizing it. i've set boundaries in a very cold way after the line being crossed several times and no changes after a polite discussion. however being unsympathetic in every conversation and having controlling 'boundaries' and weaponizing language meant to help people is.. gross and disingenuous
Also, there has to be a distinction between privacy and secrecy. I think the opposite of "privacy" is "secrecy". Betrayal is just the result of secrecy. Privacy and discretion are good; secrecy, lying and deception aren't. It's very important how we discuss these things because these things can be very easily co-opted by manipulators who are masters of deception.
Finding this video was very validating, gut wrenching and eye opening. My ex partner used this therapy speech heavily to warp my reality and perception of myself and them. Suddenly I was the over emotional one, the crazy one and unable to say anything because they were "working on themselves" and I would hinder them being their "authenthic selfs." They were never gaslighting or abusive because they called themselves "empath" and whenever I had a reaction to their abuse, be it crying, panicing or anger, they were "not responsible for my feelings." Interestingly they do identify a lot with the Corporate world. This therapy speech resulted into me not having any ground for self defense - because all they said was "logical", "rational", and pseudo - intellectual. Nothing helped the self reflection with the fact, that they were incredibly cruel, and violent and self serving. I am very happy to be out of this relationship.
What a great discussion! I've learned about boundaries that they're usually about how you react, not controlling other people. So when JH essentially framed his criticisms of his gf as "if you want to be yourself then we need to break up", it seemed more controlling. Instead he could have said something like, "if you're going to do this then I'm going to react this way", not taking an all-or-nothing approach. If he'd done that, he might have seen that trying to tell a surfer not to wear swimwear or be friends with her friends or whatever was kind of ridiculous. Instead he could say, "this isn't working", which seems more assertive and less passive aggressive. And "this isn't working for us" takes accountability for his part in it, unlike his "boundaries" that made her the problem. One way I can think of that we use boundaries in an "all-or-nothing" way is for interventions. When you tell a loved one, "I can't enable you anymore, either you get help or I can't talk to you."Is that still the way addiction specialists tend to handle these situations? Since it's predicated on what the loved one with addiction will do, it seems less "healthy boundary"-like.
i'm so glad someone is talking about boundaries like this. i think a lot of people confuse boundaries with desires. for example, i'd love to hang out with my boyfriend every single day! but that's not realistic for him and his schedule (or a lot people for that matter). i could respect that and be happy just seeing each other once or twice a week, or i could call that a boundary and accuse my boyfriend of neglecting me because he didn't hang out with me one day. to me, i think the line between a healthy and unhealthy boundary may be in how much it affects the other person. asking to hang out every day would take a lot of time and could impact his personal and social lives, but asking him to text me at least a few times a day is easy to fit into even a busy schedule. asking your surf instructor girlfriend not to surf with men could decimate her livelihood, but asking her to text and let you know beforehand when she'll be teaching a man establishes trust and transparency without harming her job. great video, and thank you for encouraging this conversation :)
Honestly, I think people who use "hyper-individualistic boundary-setting therapy speak" are doing us all a favor. They are letting you know that they are NOT the person you want as a friend or partner, and that you should thank your lucky stars that you're finding that out sooner rather than later. I find therapy speak PROFOUNDLY preferable to a full volume scree of verbal abuse that narcissists so often employ in similar circumstance.
wow, thank you for putting a name to an obnoxious behavioral pattern i've been observing in someone in my life for a while. i couldn't quite pin it down until now.
My ex did this alllll the time. I felt so powerless to stand up for my own feelings because I would just be accused of “not respecting his boundaries”. You really hit the nail on the head towards the end where you say they’re essentially bating us to shut us down from bringing up any of our own thoughts or concerns, and makes it so there is absolutely zero self reflection on their end. I’ve been super turned off by therapy speak because of how much my ex weaponized it, but this has been really validating and I completely see the ways in which this *can* be healthy and authentic, and the ways in which it’s not. Thanks for a great video!
This video supported me a lot. A dude with a dog is literally my ex-best friend who wrote an entire wall of therapy speak explaining why she didn’t write a damn word when my uncle died.
I believe context matters. My understanding from the Jonah Hill situation is that when you’re a part of Hollywood, there’s many of opportunities for parties that typically provide hard drugs and with liquor getting involved that lifestyle becomes addictive. He’s probably ran into some folks in his career who have abused that lifestyle and his boundaries. When you think of the predators that are in the industry or just the lifestyle of Hollywood, her actions can draw unwanted attention that he may not wanna deal with. At least it’s from my perspective.
@@Diggidydave13 Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised with the guy who made Superbad at 20 something years old was going a little heavy on drugs and alcohol in Hollywood. He dropped that crazy weight at one point too, might’ve been then but that’s just speculation on my part.
I agree with some (maybe most) of her points in this video. One point with which I agree is an individual should always reflect on their relationship “boundaries” to assess if any specific “boundary” is self serving in a positive way or are you merely holding tightly to a “boundary” that is actually inhibiting your own positive growth. Having said that, assessing that a person’s “boundaries” (ie standards) for who they engage with romantically or any type of relationship are unreasonable “boundaries” is in and of itself unreasonable if not bold arrogance. There is no insight a person can have of another individual’s path that would grant wisdom over another’s relationships. The problem with Hill’s texts have less to do with “therapy speak” or what his “boundaries” are. His problem is communicating an expectation to a person that either they change from who they were before he met them or they “don’t care” and they “don’t get it.” If she’s not for you then be adult enough to move the f**k on without attempting to wax eloquently about your “boundaries”.
This happened to me when my best friend (at the time) told me that she actually didn’t want to be my maid of honor because “it wasn’t right for her happiness”
Thank you for putting a name to this. Whenever I encounter people using this in a way that weaponizes communication I usually say “hey we’re not lawyers. Talk to me like a human being”
Yeah. I’m finding these videos useful, and how those texts are being analyzed is making it so much more clear how to set boundaries and what appropriate boundaries are. Because that’s very clearly a case of “these are boundaries, but they are very inappropriate ones.”
Seems to me like he didn’t do anything wrong and was just trying to chill her out since she was making threats and screenshotting old convos like she would use them against him. Which she did.
Exactly my thought. What is wrong with putting your boundaries the way you like. If it is excessive, it is only hurting you by keeping you alone. How is that controlling or narcissistic.
I feel like some of these “boundaries” can’t really be considered boundaries because it is made with the intent to control not to maintain themselves mentally
As a layman that dabbles in philosophy, my immediate reaction to the texts was "yes having and sharing boundaries is appropriate, but you have to make sure your boundaries are appropriate" Like you said, telling a partner they can't go out without you is a wildly inappropriate boundary. I always frame my spouse and I's relationship challenges / boundaries / etc is the context of what is most conducive to a fulfilling marriage for us both and what is proper for a rational person striving for a mutually fulfilling relationship. I'm very influenced by Aristotle's nichomacean ethics so I always ask myself - is it eudaemonic?
@@henrytep8884 he was, he married Pythias and had a daughter, she died soon after and he had another child later with Herpyllis, a son named Nicomacus for which his work Nicomacean ethics is named after.
Waaaaait…I’m confused. Ana, I legit thought you would clarify that what Jonah Hill labels as “boundaries” are actually his *needs* or *preferences* or *desires* for his partner? 🤔 Everything I’ve read/heard until this point gave me the impression that boundaries refer to ourselves and ourselves alone. How we want to be treated/touched/communicated with/etc. the boundary begins & ends with us & our personal space. If we want/don’t want our partner to behave in a certain way/do certain things with their body, etc…are those not our preferences FOR them? Our needs FROM them? I didn’t even think the term boundary was appropriate to use here, linguistically or therapeutically? I’d love clarity on that. I do agree on the greater message of your video, and the fact that we need to think about *why* we have the expectations/needs/desires that we do for/of our partner. Is it coming from a place of control due to insecurity? That’s the vibe I got from Jonah, though I think there is room for compromise. This issue of hobbies & friendships with people of the opposite sex came up for me in a recent relationship, it seems timely for us as a collective. Your insight is very grounding & valuable!
i’ve learned to use bits of therapy-speak with my friends. communication has been a lot better because of it. i have my own boundaries when it comes to touch and privacy, which basically amounts to “just ask me, i won’t be an asshole if you forget or do something without knowing”. it works out nicely and makes it easier to explain our feelings and needs i’ve also been stuck in a friend group where “boundaries” would come in the form of not allowing me to show affection or talk about my interests. i asked why. they simply told me that they thought it was annoying and they didn’t like it. needless to say, i don’t really talk to them anymore
I used to know a girl in middle school was did this daily. She would tell myself and all our friends constantly every dark thought she had, blowing up our phones threatening to hurt herself weekly. We would talk her down over and over. But when one of us would be struggling with the same things and we would try to lean back on her, she would tell us she didn't have "space" for us and that she was setting a "boundary" because us talking about our struggles was "triggering" and she never supported anyone the way she manipulated all of us into supporting her. We were so scared she would hurt herself We let her get away with it....
Vented to my lash tech about mom daughter things, got a bit emotional. Overheard the girls next over use the word toxic this and that,whiles glancing at me. As a barista I listened to everyone gladly and still smile for my tips. I Didn't go back. I spend 100+ tip and 1hour of my time in your business for you to call me toxic? Mind your manners and your business ladies. They pay...
Thank you for this. I was diagnosed with a mental disorder (not going into details on that) and my sister said some...pretty stigmatizing and awful things about it. I was trying to correct the misinformation and she kept on trying to shut down the conversation, saying that it was her "boundary" to stop talking to me whenever the conversation basically stressed her out too much. It really, really hurt me. It still does.
This happened over 5 years ago, but I will never forget when I had an accident and got a concussion and my girlfriend at the time told me that she did not consent to me having boundaries around how to interact while I was recovering. My head was pounding and I was sensitive to noise and light so I had asked her to speak a little more softly. Apparently my request violated her consent and I was trying to manipulate and control her by asking her to speak more quietly right after I got a concussion....
At the time I fell for it. I honestly thought I was a shitty, abusive girlfriend because I got a concussion without her consent.
let me guess she was white
@@pippywondergirl troll
I'll show her what violated consent looks like.
@@BBWahoo💀
@@BBWahooyou are more problematic then her...
It seems like a lot of people say “I’m setting a boundary” when really they just want to make up a rule and you don’t get to object to it because now the rule is tied to my emotional wellbeing.
… yeah that is what setting a boundary means
If you think your partners boundaries are illogical or not conducive to your way of life, it’s time to end the relationship. It’s not that crazy of a concept.
@@uhok6712I tend to agree except in cases of coercive control. Sometimes there’s people who put their “You can’t have friends of the opposite gender!” boundary in their dating profile bio. You swipe away from that.
Other times they love bomb a person for weeks and then state the “boundary.” The love bombing has also led this person to cut off communication with other loved ones so now it’s not as simple. It’s still the best choice to leave though.
@@theobservantsome9095 I get you, I’m just saying it’s laughable to be shocked that people in the world have made up rules about life that are tied to how they feel about things. Like… yeah literally everyone has those.
@@uhok6712 I’m talking about people who make “boundaries” that are clearly controlling and unfair
It's amazing how close therapy speak and corporate speak are to each other. The problem with both of them is that the entire point is to remove emotion from the conversation. And while this is can be a positive thing in business, and useful in therapy for self analysis, it's an insult in a relationship that is, after all, totally based on the feelings we have for one another.
well yeah, however sometimes if you let any emotion out at all it would result in a counterproductive argument. If you need to put down your foot in regards to an issue, for the other person either to accept the boundary or be put of your life for good because it is too much, it's the only gpod option. It's a much better way to end things than just getting angry at them or whatever, and especially important if you have little experience with setting these types of boundaries.
@@JonathanMandrake I would simply argue that therefore needs to be a conscientious acknowledgement of those emotions... I love you and really hope you can find a way to accommodate this because it's really important to me and I want to have you in my life. Or something
@@mrjdgibbs I can understand that for relationships where there is still trust and all. However, if there is some event that has made you lose trust in them, made you think they are manipulating you or lying to you for years, I think it can be very useful. If you lose trust or can't afford to be emotionally vulnerable, it's the best thing you can do. Esp if you find yourself in a seemingly abusive or manipulative relationship, and need some distance and all to figure out how bad things are and all It seems to me like you never really were in that kind of situation, which would be great for you, but I had a few manipulative friends and if i knew gow and where to set boundaries, it would have been way better, and this would have been a great way to do so
@@JonathanMandrake of course every situation is different, there are no one size fits all solutions, and I'm happy you found a useful tool to protect yourself.
Most things have a downside and an upside and we're all just doing our best.
Emotion and specifics.
This is how everyone talks in reality shows like love is blind and the ultimatum.
It’s possible to use therapy language without sounding pretentious.
Ana, you don’t have to worry because you do not give off “therapy speak”. You’re articulate in an extremely compassionate way.
Everyone in those shows also say "1000%" so many times hahaha
@@AnaPsychology Also "Yes, 1000 times yes!". Gives me Pride and Prejudice flashbacks everytime.
I thought this too! And I've noticed that the more someone uses "therapy speak" in those shows, the less they seem to be able to be introspective and empathetic. Can't know for sure of course because of the heavy editing those shows go through, but that's the impression I've got.
It's a form of manipulation. Especially if the person it's used on doesn't understand the words etc
They do it to give the characters depth and try to redeem them the short time they're on the island. It's hard to say if the contestants really come with the baggage, but they definitely use past behavior as a crutch to hurt others. If anything, it's to make it seem less black and white and more nuanced so that none of them are absolute villains. It's an attempt that people quickly lose the essence of when they don't think about why they're employing therapy-speak. They want us to care about these horndogs, and for that, they need to be able to show growth.
I think people are mixing up boundaries with deal breakers. I think there are some people who go to therapy but don't use it introspectively and instead use it to diagnose and control others
Bingo. Absolutely 💯 true
That part 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Like narcissists doo omg.
Yup
Boundaries… are deal breakers…
Between therapy speak and corporate double talk our society has lost its soul. Robots taught how to react.
That's an overgeneralization but it certainly does seem to fit the bill sometimes. I can't tell when I'm being overly cynical or realistic about society anymore
God forbid people having issues communicating use a baseline while they recover. They really are AWFUL.
It shows the issues with uncritical self-affirmation. "You are good, you are worthy, you deserve a treat" are not helpful ways of thinking unless you actually put the work in.
bro go outside
@@blockydogy1188I think he has... that's why he came to that conclusion.🎉
Sometimes therapy is great for people, other times it gives narcissists a new tool box.
well said
🙌
It depends on how the words are being used...
Similar to social media, or the growing popularity of AI. They can be used to interact with others who you haven't seen in a while or as a way to network towards a career...and it's also been used to throw around insults, promote cyberbullying, and emotionally harm human beings in some way.
It's a tool that can used either for bad or good. The technology itself isn't inherently bad.
I know a girl who recently started therapy and she is pretty horrible; arrogant and narcissistic. She doesn’t have many friends because of these unlikable personality traits. The therapist told her she was too self-critical, which is obviously the worst kind of feedback for someone like this. Face palm
@@alanmcivor2005 narcissists can be extremely self critical so the point isn’t bad advice. she needs to learn how to question and critique herself without beating herself up
One of my biggest frustrations in life is double standards when it comes to boundaries. So many times I have had people trample all over my own boundaries and do things to me that i'm not comfortable with, and their response is always "grow a backbone" "you need to stop being so sensetive" etc. Meanwhile, if I accidentally cross a boundary they never even told me about, it's the end of the world and treated as if I'm some kind of monster. I HATE people who expect everyone else to respect them and their boundaries, but have ZERO respect for the boundaries of anyone else.
Thats their problem. If you do something "wrong" and I never told you I don't want to be spoken to like this or whatever. It was never a boundary. That's control.
If I valued you I would have discussed this with you or at least if it came up I wouldnt treat you like trash. It is on the boundary setter to express their boundaries not the other way around. People aren't mind readers. To expect that says more about them.
The one that pisses me off is when they make it out like they never should have had to set the boundary because it's "common courtesy" or "something you should just know." Instead they say one thing to your face and badmouth you behind your back until they have a case against you and an army to back them up. Total bait and switch.
@ferret4111as an autistic person I’ve also experienced this
@@jujulove2349 I can verify that this is a mood
@@jupitersnoot4915 if I think of a boundary as a rule for myself, then it always works out. If I say, I'm not going to associate with people who aren't nice to me, or who are difficult to be around, then it's my rules for me. If people treat me how I don't want, I follow my rule and stop being around them. Or whatever distance I can create at the time until I can get away from them .
I like that you are brave enough to suggest that there are some boundaries that are inappropriate or that we should budge on. As someone with BPD my boundaries are probably too flexible and at times I have probably expected a similar excess of flexibility from other people when I shouldn't have. However, I have been thinking for a good few years now that a lot of people's boundaries are becoming excessively harsh and rigid, like they no longer take into account the other person's situation or the relationship between the two of them: "You must be perfect or else I'm disappearing forever"...reminds me of my superego tbh
my ex with BPD suggested I did exactly that. When she was abusive towards me every day, she screamed at waiters, went off on me when a conversation wasn't about her for once. Got to the point I feared her so much I couldn't sleep beside her anymore. When I opened up about it she got aggressive again. I realized she wouldn't respect my boundaries so I left. She tried to blame me for just giving up on the relationship, but working on it wasn't possible. I'm glad I have boundaries, I also have tolerance and empathy, but when you end up with an abusive partner they are all you have.
I had a best friend with BPD, I chose to cut all contact with her. I did not like that I had to assert my boundaries often, or that I was expected to be so mindful of her but she couldn't be bothered to return the same gesture to literally any of my boundaries that meant anything to me. You can't expect people to just stick around just because you're friends, or to forgive you always. What you end up doing is using guilt to keep people around and continue to ignore their boundaries. Suck it up and stop being toxic.
@@levi-ly5vg Dude, I already admitted that my own boundaries are probably too flexible more often than they are too rigid, and as a result I try to be careful to make sure I'm not being too pushy etc. with others. That doesn't mean that other people's boundaries are never excessively rigid. People having overly rigid boundaries is an example of how some people weaponise therapy-speak: they seem to think that by calling something a boundary, they can essentially coerce other people into behaving exactly as they want.
Maybe in your situation you were right to enforce your boundaries and you did so appropriately - I wouldn't know as I wasn't there and don't know you or your ex best friend. But just because I have the same disorder as her doesn't mean that we have identical approaches to boundaries. It's fairly likely that we're in the same neighbourhood, but even in the same neighbourhood there can be a lot of variation. Plus, I've been in therapy for many years at this point - over 3 years continuously, but going back 8 years on and off - so my internal boundary issues don't necessarily end up reflected in my behaviour, even if they used to pre-therapy.
@@andrewphillips-hird3761 It applies to anyone with or without BPD. Especially when people seem to have rigid boundaries we should respect those, it doesn't mean you get bossed around. Actively respecting other people's boundaries will always remind you to reassess and hold firm on your own. Everybody is going through something, we all have emotions, sometimes we will be in points of our lives that we are terrible to be around and bless the heart of the people who stay, however it is in all our best interest to not subject ourself to unfairness in a friendship or even just off vibes.
@@andrewphillips-hird3761ignore the commentator they’re generalizing , and projecting their negative experience onto you.
Haven't finished the vid yet, but I've always thought that the way people talk about "boundaries" is totally wrong, and what they actually mean is EXPECTATION. Your "boundary" is not something that you tell someone else to do. a BOUNDARY is the point at which YOU will walk away from the situation. You can have expectations for what you WANT someone to do but that's not a boundary and the other person does NOT have to meet your expectation.
and you don't have to continue with the relationship. it's semantics. all of it. A boundary is an expectation. IMHO, a boundary should work both ways. It's absolute. While an expectation can be one sided.
Relationships can have boundaries as well. What you are talking about are personal boundaries. For example, being close to your exes isn't something a lot of people aren't comfortable with. Some people are naturally flirty and they might have to tone it down as a compromise. It's fair to set limits on behaviour in relationships.
I've been thinking the same thing about how people use the word 'needs' especially emotional needs. Most of the time they are not actually needs, just wants, and that's okay to have wants but we need to be honest about what they really are.
@ashwinshankar7752 agreed it seems alot of people nowadays are getting into relationships with the mindset that there will be no compromise at all
What exactly do you think a boundary is? Something exclusive in with things can go within and others can't, but what would that entail? Expectations perhaps? What is this semantic game we're trying to play lmao.
I’d suggest therapy speak is a warning sign that there’s a breakdown of trust or communication between the two people, especially when it’s done over text or is behind a cold veneer. Words are one part of the communication - what is the body language, context, and meaning behind the words themselves. If you replaced ‘boundaries’ with ‘wants’ or ‘operating model,’ Is the expectation now selfish-seeming or limiting?
I’ve definitely been subjected to this, where the individual turning it on is distancing themselves from the relationship/from me when honesty and vulnerability becomes inconvenient for them. It can kind of be a form of gaslighting where they treat you like that coldness and formality was always there. It’s fascinating (and infuriating) to witness in that context.
Or it just means they're too vulnerable to speak with you "normally", therapy speak is the only way I can address issues to/with my parents and try to make them stop, I'm actually more opened this way about my feelings.
@@melodi996 I appreciate you saying that. I can see how knowing some of this terminology would help you communicate better with somebody, especially if you’re able to use more universal terminology that might make the other person see your perspective as more valid.
I was freaking out a little, because the way I approach life is through a structured self-analytical and systematically-analytical lense. In a relationship for instance I talk about creating proper communication channels, and setting up proper systems to dynamically handle both of our needs, as I have BPD and OCD, and my partner had depression. I realize that it's not necessarily how you talk that's the problem, but rather your sincerity and use of the language. I use it to properly reflect my structured thought process on how to most accurately set a healthy base of a relationship so I can cultivate the most trust and love with someone, while mitigating miscommunication, drama, and other shit.
As someone who has both received therapy speak and used it myself, I have a theory as to why it is used by some people. They don’t like conflict and the therapy speak is a tool to distance themselves, end a relationship, whilst not being horrible to the other person or using their authentic voice. For example:
True feelings: “Jessica, I don’t want to be friends with you anymore because you’re a selfish b*tch and I find you extremely draining to be around. I can’t be bothered to listen to you constantly whinge about your sh*tty boyfriend anymore and never take my advice.”
This would undoubtedly cause a huge argument with Jessica. Now for the therapy edit.
Therapy speak version: “Jessica, unfortunately I can no longer continue our friendship, as my emotional energy/labour is not being fully reciprocated. I care about you and when you don’t listen to me it hurts. I have to put down some boundaries and distance myself and protect my own mental health. I hope you understand”
This is not how the sender truly feels but it is way less likely to cause an argument when Jessica, when they simply don’t want to be in the friendship anymore. This tactic is probably used most by people who have the fawn/ friend trauma response, who simply can’t be in the relationship or friendship anymore.
This is my experience, too. I find that people who are just learning about boundaries and how to set them after living an entire life of being told that what they need doesn't matter, and therefore knuckling under, are more likely to lean into this when it comes to confrontation and assertion. Sort of like they're practicing. As someone fortunate enough to have experience, and sound more natural using this kind of language (though I still dislike confrontation... who doesn't?), one of the things I've had to learn is to be kinder to those who are still learning ✨ and that has been MY challenge
Saving this translation template to use at the right time. ❤
Yeah, and I think honestly the "therapy speak" is better than being spiteful and rude
You're right
what is the fawn/fiend trauma response?
Damn, my ex is a therapist and watching this video made me realize that she was weaponizing “boundaries” to manipulate and control my emotions. This was an enlightening video. Thank you.
As a therapist myself, this is one of my worst fears, that I'll do this to somebody from my position of "knowledge" and "authority." I tell my partners my job title immediately and ask them to hold me accountable to not do this. I hope that will help.
I have watched a relationship like this. It was so hard to see my friend constantly being made to feel invalid and gaslit.
I lost a lot of respect for my friend who was the one weaponising the speak.
Therapists love the drama, i still well away from them
@@Ukraineaissance2014 I hate to know the therapists you know, then. I think you have to mediate being a therapist with some type of spirituality and maturity before the therapist can be healthy...but that's just like any other occupation/person. These two things dampen a person's inherent selfishness.
The number of abuseive therapist I’ve experienced is so disturbingly high I often recommend to people to read self help books first so they can get an idea when a therpist is messing them up…and if dating one make sure to see a good one at professionally at the same time to make sure they don’t get stuck in a bad situation. Like I wish I was kidding I have no idea how some f them are allowed to see patients.
I feel like every year there’s just a new “term” to define someone’s personality or behavior but most of the time it’s always just another way of saying they’re a bad person
What happened with "life comes in shades of gray". Just labeling others bad isn't... How should I say it...good. Essentially we should try to solve problems together rather than saying that a specific person is the problem
@@funnyvalentinesglorioushai2227 very well said.
@@funnyvalentinesglorioushai2227Some people are bad tho
I remember when “gaslighting” was the hot new word to throw around. Even thinking about it makes me want to puke.
Remember when everyone was suddenly an "empath"?
😂😂😂😂😂
Set too few boundaries, some people will use you. Set too many boundaries, fewer people will want to be around you much; this number may approach or reach zero. It's just part of life: Get the balance right.
It's not about quantity.
I rather be alone than being surrounded with people that give a shit about me
If my one boundary is don't hit me and I have zero people in my life as a result that is still the healthier choice.
Never be a people pleaser.
Or maybe learn what a boundary actually is??
I cant remember where i heard this, but someone said its not anyone elses responsibility to maintain your boundaries. A boundary being crossed raises alarm bells for the boundary holder in order for them to know it is time to act. I feel like some treat their boundaries as "laws" in the sense that instead of saying "hey, you did this and that bothered me" they say "you crossed this boundary, YOU need to do something to make up for it." Its very detatched, almost like their saying "well, its not me forcing you to apologize. Its my boundary and thats just the way it is."
I don’t think it’s productive to speak so vaguely about boundaries. I had someone, without my permission, rub their ass on me recently and make fun of a friend of mine who OD’d-to say the least, I was upset because they did cross a boundary. I completely wanted and expected an apology from this person.
While what you say sounds good in theory there is a place where it falls apart. It absolutely is partly my reslonsibility to enforce and respect my wife's boundaries, they arent just an imaginary line that exista only for her to react to when crossed.
@@elfsongtavernThe situation you described was a crossing of your boundary. You understand you had a choice of how to react to the nonconsensual event, yes? Some people leave, some stare, some grab back, some call the police, and some are both unhinged and armed-that last group would shoot the person who brushed against them without consent. Would doing so be “legal?” Probably not, but the law applies a consequence for breaking the law, which was the OP’s point. Some people weaponize therapy speak to weaponize boundaries. E.g. the creep in your situation could tell you they “did not consent to you stepping away and saying stop, you’re really disturbing the perpetrator’s peace and breaking a boundary by acting out like that.”
If someone is setting a boundary out loud to others, they need to know in their own head what they will do if that boundary is crossed, then stick to it. Suppose a husband says to his wife “my boundary is that when I come home I expect dinner on the table and you don’t respect me and all the hard work I do when I discover you’re at work instead of in the kitchen when I come home.” Or a car driver running a motorcycle off the road because the car driver’s boundary is “to immediately and without regard for safety zoom across all lanes not occupied by cars as soon as the turn signal minimum time is reached, regardless of whether a more vulnerable road user is legally occupying the lane.”
Someone used this boundary shit on me once. They told me I make them think too much by being too deep, which violates their boundaries because it makes them bad at parenting.
When people weaponize therapy speech, it's not rational. This is not a boundary, and her solution to the problem made no sense either. This is her using me as a scapegoat for other issues in a toxic relationship.
@@LadyVandMrT that is one helluva weird thing to have said to you. Sheesh
Definitely agree it's the intention behind the therapy speak that matters...Sometimes, it's also just nice to be able to talk to people normally and directly. "hey, you did this and that bothers me because..."
But that was the goal of therapy speech lmao. To be honest and speak ones feelings without being hindered bei misunderstanding or trying to insult your conversation partner, that's the goal 😂.
@@funnyvalentinesglorioushai2227Exactly. Communicating directly is hard when you are using rude, emotionally charged or too ambigious language. It's better to just discuss calmly and clearly! That's not a bad thing
This is such a perfect video and analysis of "therapy speak" and why its so bad, compared to how therapy and self-work can actually be so helpful. It reminds me how social justice language is being co-opted in so many other areas too.
The things that especially grinds my gears is that boundaries--while they can be so many things--are a way to get closer to other people. To me, boundaries in relationships are like saying "I want to feel good in your presence, here's some ways you can do this for me. How can I do that for you?". While therapy speak like you said is so individualistic, and to me, feels like it blocks you from getting closer to other people when theres no understanding or negotiating of boundaries
Effectively communicating means getting on the level of the other person, not using psychological tricks to establish power over the conversation.
Well said. Power games is not friendship.
this video is so affirming and important to hear. My therapist tells me that “boundaries are for no one else but yourself, it’s only in your control to choose what to do when they are or aren’t being met by others” but this takes it a step further and helps me better understand that aspects of certain boundaries might be holding me back. As someone with PTSD it’s hard to face the “why” behind a boundary, but it’s vital to explore their existence and the feelings surrounding them. I honestly tend to feel more at peace with myself and others when I make a boundary clear if it’s been crossed, by being vulnerable but not making a demand or expectation.
i think, like most topics, there has to be some nuance. But twitter and tiktok are places where nuance goes to die lol. It's not always as simple as "doing this makes you a bad/insufferable person".
Some forms of "therapy speak" may be helpful for people who are not very good at expressing their opinion/feelings about a situation, relationship etc. At the same time, boundaries, emotional intelligence, empathy and compassion are a two-way street; you can't expect everyone to respect all your boundaries and treat you with empathy while you are not trying your best to do the same to others.
Yes, I understand there are situations where people genuinely do not have the capacity to extend superfluous amounts of compassion to others but I'm not sure the people that do this fall under this category.
I think you're spot on with the two-way street part. Heavily criticising or cutting off a friend is always hard on both people, and I feel like the examples shown here are an attempt to do that without taking responsibility for the emotional fallout. Healthily navigating these situations requires vulnerability from both people; we have to acknowledge ugly feelings and personal flaws, or at least entertain the possibility we have them, and say things that could be interpreted as whiny/demanding/petty/cold. Dancing around what we're doing and how we feel with buzzwords and false civility, leaving little room for people to argue back without looking bad, might comfort *us* but it doesn't soften the blow to *them*.
As Ana argued, it's probably good as a last resort for people for whom other communication methods have failed. That or the person's done something bad enough to obliterate your respect for them, and/or if directly saying something negative to them could be dangerous for you. They're all situations where the person can't reasonably demand empathy and patience from others.
And yeah, I think "therapy speak" can be useful in some contexts too. They can be great shorthands for complicated feelings and relationship dynamics. It's just using them inappropriately, either twisting their meanings or using them every other word to seem more enlightened, that's problematic.
I went to therapy for a long time to deal with trauma and honestly it really helped to journal more than it did to be actually in therapy. Don't get me wrong, it was comforting, but being on medication and journaling on my own was so much more healing. It helps you get clear about how you really feel and holds you accountable from your own point of view, rather than another person's. This works for me, but I need my support group, like my friends and partner. Wishing everyone the best on their healing journey and definitely listen for this weaponizing of therapy-speak!
You can have whatever boundaries you want, the problem comes from feeling entitled to jam other people into those boundaries or use them to control their behavior. Your boundaries may be reasonable to some and unreasonable to others, as long as you're not trying to force them on others it's probably ok, but if the majority of reasonable people find your boundaries to be unreasonable then you're going to end up very lonely.
Agreed!
An ex friend went to school to become a therapist, and he has absolutely weaponized therapy speak against the old friend group wherever he could. He’s also a pro at projecting and creating situations in his head that never happened. I pity all of his clients, I can’t imagine he suddenly turned around to help patients. We just all have to remind ourselves that we weren’t the problem, the friend group is all still friends, he’s the only one no one speaks to anymore.
My own therapist doesn't do "therapy speak". He listens. 🐱
Same, mine is really chill
@@Eruza9306 That's 2 of us. Yea
@@teresasimkins5518 Yay!
That's marvelous. (My head cannon is that your therapist is a cat though)
Therapists really can listen and care about you and challenge your assumptions about others
@@danielsykes7558 For sure. Trust & concern are so vital!
My therapist put it perfectly. Boundaries are the limits of MY actions only. Telling others what they can and can’t do is controlling and rulemaking, not boundary setting.
I find this interesting. But to which point is this true? Because my boundary would be cheating and that is not an action I take
Shit is, your boundaries probably also limit her actions - you'd probably be not okay with her spying on you, or behaving excessively violently towards you.
If boundaries were really only about your own actions, sadusts and psychopaths woukd have much less excuses to pass control as self-protection. But, unfortunately, we live in the world we live in
@@y2k629your action would be leaving them if that boundary is violated (or talking with them, or whatever you do when the relationship isn’t working out). You can’t force them to not cheat. There was this one tiktok vid that described boundaries well IMO: imagine you are a sheep. you set a boundary for a wolf to not cross. the wolf crosses the boundary. you can’t physically kick them out, theyve already crossed the boundary. if you ask them to not cross it, and they cross it anyways, the only thing you can do is move away from them, so *you* are in control of moving them out of your boundary by moving yourself (and therefore your boundary) away from them. so in a relationship this would be leaving (or maybe taking a break) from someone who cheats on you.
@@y2k629Suppose the boundary is stated as “no cheating” but the person who is repeatedly cheated on does nothing to end the relationship. That’s a non-boundary, like labelling an unlocked door “employees only” while advertising to customers that they can use the restroom behind that door. Better to relabel the door, or remodel the restricted area, or both. The person whose boundary is “no cheating” who then breaks up with their SO who cheated, is following the boundary. The person who takes the cheater back over and over is not enforcing the “no cheating” boundary. The person who knows the “other party” they “saw” their SO “cheating with” was actually their SO’s sibling and the “cheating” was them standing in line at a convenience store? That last example is clearly not setting a boundary, they are being a controlling rulemaker in the guise of “enforcing a boundary.”
@@y2k629your boundary is that if someone cheats on you, YOU would leave the relationship. The boundary is about you leaving, not them not cheating.
Boundaries are contextual and situational. As you said with your dinner date example, some boundaries should be flexible in extenuating circumstances. The way some people use “boundaries” is incredibly unnuanced and seems to be a way of legitimizing rigid, controlling behavior under the guise of healthy self-respect. It’s important to examine why we have the boundaries we do, as well as how flexible those boundaries ought to be, whether such boundaries are reasonable to have, and the potential impact they could have on other people.
It goes both ways, people also use the word “controlling” too rigidly to justify virtually anything, like cheating or alcoholism for example and call protestation against such things “controlling behaviour”. These two concepts are always in an arms race it seems.
This is such an important conversation. We need to ask why we have the boundaries that we have and if they fit the context that we put them in or whether they’re reflections of our insecurities or past experiences
@@Diogenes-96at the same time there is nothing wrong reflecting and examining your own boundary as well. Some boundary might based on past experience that is not valid anymore. For example, someone might ate a very badly cooked fish when they were young and decide to put boundary on eating fish. Nothing wrong, but if that person re-examined their boundary they might find that they actually enjoy well-cooked fish and have more enjoying life, or they might still hate fish and keep the boundary. Either way is fine. Still, reflecting on boundary help bring yourselves to the presence.
@@chakritlikitkhajorn8730there's a huge difference between a boundary in a relationship, whether platonic or romantic, and a dislike, which is what you're describing with the fish example... no reasonable person is attempting to force anyone else to eat fish, and no reasonable person is getting upset that someone offers them fish for dinner. that's not a boundary, it's a dislike.
@@articulated_claviclesbeing upset that people don’t eat what you do or insisting that it’s wrong to eat what they like is one of the most common problems brought to family therapy
Therapy speak is what helps cheaters get away with their bullshit. So ashamed to have been fooled by the "controlling" narrative in my past relationship.. current partner and I at least had a laugh about it though
Therapy speak is how my friends and I find it easiest to communicate with eachother/others. We have histories of family members, friends, and partners being very manipulative and dismissive of our feelings, so it’s very hard for us to communicate how we feel without laying it all out in a very structured and polite way to avoid conflict and misunderstanding. It’s sad to hear that the misuse of it is making people hate therapy speak. I’d never ask my loved ones to stop posting certain things or stop hanging out with certain people. Their life is theirs and my life is mine, and we’re always happy to meet in the middle even if that takes therapy speak to get there.
But that is your perception. What's to say that the problem isn't actually you and not all the other people you mentioned? Because the common denominator is you.. I am highly suspectful of someone who portrays themselves to be constant victims to everyone in their life because that's just not possible/realistic. I can bet that you do many of the things you accusse others of doing. In life everyone is both abused and an abuser even if it's some minor things.
@@ciobalina7445where did they say there was a problem with them? They said the problem is people misusing and weaponizing therapy speak. I agree with them. Just because you have mistrust doesn’t mean that therapy talk can’t be helpful. I also have a history of growing up with people that are abusive at worst and dismissive at best. I don’t think that everyone else today in my life are the problems. But that doesn’t negate that the way people in my earlier part of my life acted fit the criteria for abusive and dismissive behavior. Therapy talk when used right can be very effective at communicating. Maybe ask yourself why you’re so distrusting of people’s intentions?
@@ciobalina7445who are you to assume all that from someone you don't know lmao
It sounds like the therapy speak is just untreated trauma playing out.
I hope you get better, but life won’t be easy if you can’t communicate normally.
@@ciobalina7445 This is the kind of mindset that enables abusers and shames victims.
I am in a tough situation with my gf (verge of breaking up basically). Her aunt is a therapist and she just keeps talking about her "boundaries" and how "I am stepping over her boundaries". At first I felt anxious as I am from an abuisve family and when I was in therapy I was taught that ny boundaries should be honored and to ya know not hang out with people who don't respect them. During my therapy sessions these were actual boundaries to prevent being a doormat and to not get into abusive situations anymore. My gf is just using the word as almost a filler word: "because I hang out with you I don't have enough me time and now I feel tired, because my boundaries are not being respected". If she would have just told me "hey, I get tired when I don't have enough alone time. I am gonna spend some time alone now" I wouldn't be honored, but by putting the blame on me (and partly on herself as well, but still) I just feel incredibly guilty when everytime we hangout I am being told that because of me they couldn't spend enough time to be around and rest. Especially since they only tell me this after we already hang out.
It doesn't read like you've told your girlfriend how her actions make you feel in enough detail. Maybe she will change her ways. Although it seems like there's a lack of emotional intelligence on her part.
Also consider exploring where the feelings of shame come from and how you can work with those feelings. Just letting negative emotions linger without processing them will tear a relationship (or a person for that matter) apart.
Stay strong and don't despair, I'm sure you will happiness with her or someone else 🙏
i think if u wanna be with her you’d need to have a conversation with ur gf.. tell her u care about her and that u wouldn’t try to deliberately or intentionally step over their boundaries. that whenever she feels tired, she could just tell you and it’s okay bcs we’ll adjust. hanging out is great but you wouldn’t wanna sour the memory looking back if it turns out they were already feeling socially drained.. what if yall started checking in w each other so this isn’t a reoccurring issue? the resentment from the both of you seems like bcs there’s no clear communication and you’re frustrated.
If she has boundaries, she has to 1) make them known 2) make sure they're protected. That means 1) she should tell you 'hey I need some time alone' and if you keep insisting despite that, then you'll be stepping over her boundaries. 2) she should take that time alone and not wait for your permission or anything. After that if you continue to take no for an answer, then she may want to get even more distance from you. But it sounds to me like some of these elements were missing, e.g she didn't communicate with you where she stands and is just blaming you for not reading minds.
@@cyborgsaikoflawless advice 🙏🏻😊
Bro that sounds exhausting. No wonder more people want to stay single.
I have not only had therapy-speak weaponised in dismissive ways, but been actively therapised when not asked for, and in an accusatory manner (and had assumptions made about me and my life experiences that were wildly off-the-mark). It's stopped me from opening up almost completely as a result, these days, from even putting myself out there.
I've seen it happen to others and seen it be used to stigmatise whole groups of people, such as people with cluster-B personalities (regardless of whether those labelled had such conditions or not).
I can't stand it. People watch some videos or have therapy for a few months and then think they're experts and then browbeat people with it (instead of even being empathetic). As someone who's been in the system for well over half my life, I am just.....so tired.
The current society promotes dominating others, or at the very least being more "powerful" than others. That's our current social situation and it's so destructive.
yesss. Either way, it's a drag being goaded into what is probably a one-sided communication. Mirroring, but creepy, culty, cold, distant and with 'fake love'.
Reconstructively deconstructive.
It’ll make you grow to hate simply starting a conversation
I've found that the people who shout about empathy the loudest are the least empathetic people alive.
@@joshuafischer684 Huh, I will be keen to keep my eyes peeled for that.
Im glad i am not the only person that felt crazy when i would hear people who speak like this to come off as "corporate".
Its like they have a script that they subconsciously read when they are given a situation that they don't feel comfortable in and try to tell me how to act and behave around them in a "compassionate" way. Like how spiritual and/or religious people try to condemn you on something you do that they dont like, but they try to disguise it as a backhanded compliment.
I am glad people are talking more about this, because i feel like it only brings people to view therapy as another form or useless/harmful medical treatment.
It’s so relieving to hear Ana say ‘a clinical psychology doctor’ rather than ‘a clinical psychology doctoral candidate’. Amazing job Ana!
This is one of my worst fears; I am constantly double checking the way I speak in personal relationships because I don't want my friends and family to feel like I am medicalizing their behavior. I don't even use the word 'boundary' outside of work. It's a trial and error process, and every once in a while I still hear the accusatory "are you analyzing me?" or "don't therapize me!," and I also get asked advice very often, but I think it's crucial to keep trying to sound 'normal' when transferring our career skills to our every day life.
We have a massive advantage when it comes to understanding our feelings and the feelings of others, so other people who know of our profession naturally feel under-armed when interacting with us. It is not our job to make everyone feel ok, but it is our social responsibility to make sure at least our family and friends feel comfortable. "With great power, comes great responsibility."
On the contrary, you have a gift and you owe it to people to give them the truth, if it will bring them wellness and the ability to truly love one day. That's how I view my similar gift, it seems anyway haha I do not use therapy speak to do this haha and for some, there just is no receptiveness. For most, I find a way to get through to them for my part. I find it interesting that I feel so differently about it as a spiritual counselor versus you being the therapist.
I've been feeling this way about how therapy is used to promote this hyper individualist sense of social obligation, thank you for finding a way to explain it.
I get frustrated with therapy speak because im autistic and have always struggled to be a better communicator, and often people use their formal and "great" self care and communication skills to disregard that other people are human. i will be trying so hard to get my true feelings across to someone, and they will take one of my miscommunications and decide that means i am a toxic person. i understand that i am not perfect and i like everyone have toxic tendencies that i constantly have to identify and work on, but instead of talking to me about it like a person, therapy-speaking people feel like they're talking to me like i am a child and they clearly know more than me and are on a totally different level. just talk to me like im a person. please. i want to learn but i cant if people constantly shut me out and stop seeing me as a human being if i make a mistake or miscommunicate.
From the moment people started self diagnosing and abusing terms like depression and anxiety, it was inevitable.
yup
Indeed! It’s getting too silly.
What do you mean?
With the rise of the internet came discussions about mental illness, which on its face is a good thing, but, as with anything on the internet, it kinda led to people feeling comfortable being armchair psychologists/psychiatrists and to self diagnose as having GAD and clinical depression. Framing normal emotional responses as persisting ‘depression’ or ‘anxiety’
and its starting with ADHD and Autism
You know what now that I think about it, my abusive narcissistic family has been using condescending "therapy speak" on me for years in order to appear like the sane, rational, level headed ones in order to make me appear crazy and uunhinged.and garner sympathy from others. Like they do f*cked up stuff to me to get me to a point I boil over and react, then they label me an "emotional terrorist" and then they are enforcing THEIR boundaries with me after repeatedly violating my boundaries for decades then shaming me for distancing myself from them like I'm choosing to not have a relationship with them then tricking me into coming back just to mess with my boundaries again then I blow up and now I'm the one being disrespectful?!?!
Damn bro that's terrible.
Get out of there, don't let yourself be hurt.
Jonah telling his GF to take responsibility for his boundaries is a perfect example of projected insecurity weaponized as therapy speak
On therapy speak: My personal pet peeve is when abusers use "boundaries" as a way to avoid accountability. Stonewalling, ghosting or breadcrumbing are manipulative tactics, not boundaries.
On boundaries: I read something very helpful from a mutual online on the distinction between a real boundary and controlling/manipulative behavior.
- A boundary is defensive and doesn't diminish agency. :)
- An imposition diminishes agency and is not a boundary.
Though I personally believe abusers co-opt everything! I'm afraid they could also frame their manipulative behavior in terms of "agency" or the opposite, the autonomy of their victims, as "imposition".
I like that you covered this passive-aggressive behavior. When people have used it on me, I call them on what they actually just said to me in real meaning, and they have always tried to deny it or complain that I'm not following the rules on some technicality. I don't play that game. Mostly these people are no longer in my life, and for the best. I think it's the tool of cowards, liars, and gaslighters, and I've been around long enough to learn I can't change those people.
I end up sounding cold and therapish when i am attempting to communicate while dissociating. As someone who is autistic, this tool has been instrumental to help me communicate in SOME form.
I do, however wish to never use boundaries to hurt others. Boundaries are SUPPOSED TO BE a defensive tool.
I try to keep my boundaries limited to direct interactions with me. I.E. Don't yell at me like i am 5 years old.
I’m a huge enthusiast of ‘Intercultural Communication’ field of Social Science: I really enjoyed the collectivism vs. individualism remark. You got another sub babes ✨ 🌼
Boundaries are a negotiation. If someone has very strict boundaries, they're allowed to have them, and they should be prepared to have less options if it limits their options. Romantic relationships are not a human right, and so if they are strict, you should find someone else. It's frustrating to see people abuse boundaries for manipulative purposes, because other manipulative people can use those examples of abuse to then abuse you and gaslight you into believing your fair boundaries are manipulative.
One of my boundaries, is that I will maintain distance from people who continue to treat me in a way I don't appreciate, especially after I explicitly tell them that I don't like it. I'll try to be subtle about it, and make sure that people don't have to "choose between me and their friends". My biggest goal is for me to do what makes me comfortable without imposing on others, and in return I expect people to not unreasonably impose on me. I can be nice and help people, but will not tolerate people trying to peer pressure me or guilt me into things.
It's really disparaging, because many of us were not good at setting boundaries, and have been violated by truly toxic and manipulative people. And when we learn to properly set fair boundaries, we do better in life, and gain good jobs and relationships. Because we are in a better place now, and successful, people see us as someone powerful and successful, people can perceive our reasonable boundaries as unfair.
For manipulative people that are used to getting what they want from manipulation, of course legitimate boundaries will feel like oppression to them. They probably misused boundaries to extract what they want, and to uno-reverse anyone calling them out for it.
Glad you brought up this topic.
The way my last fight with my mom was about her ‘setting a boundary’ that I never argue or have disagreements with anyone else (mainly my siblings) while under her roof at family events because she has a right to peace in her home (regardless of why the disagreement is happening). Like… ok? I guess I’ll just never go to your house then babe. Maybe we don’t even have to talk, ever.
Let me guess - they and she are allowed to say whatever they want to you? Yeah, she can talk to you on your terms, then.
Bingo.
I’m so sick of hearing people who have no idea what their talking about throw “toxic” and “narcissist” around. Ugh it’s so cringe.
The word cringe is very cringe nowadays
@@henrytep8884i was just about to say saying cringe all the time is cringe 😂
@@henrytep8884 Eh, I prefer another silly synonym for bad over a word that existed just to bully kids for having fun
What a breath of fresh air. Thank you for speaking on this issue. Just because the format or tone of your message is "appropriate" doesn't mean the content is. The issue by and large remains a lack of genuine self-reflection.
This made me realize that my ex best friend when she broke up with me over text saying that she felt like the relationship was very one sided and that her needs weren't met and that she no longer wanted to put energy into or continue the friendship. I was completely blindsided by this as she had never brought up anything around this conversation before and I was so hurt because would have done everything I could have to make her feel like her needs were being met had I had any idea that she felt that way.
This has needed to be said for a long time. Everyone today is dealing with “trauma” and going through “traumatic experiences.” Everything you don’t like is “abuse.”
I feel like part of it is just people becoming more aware and calling out bad parts of their childhoods more but also another big part is just people exaggerating how bad things were too in some cases.
@@chuckyou9945it was helpful to hear when a therapist called my experience of violence in childhood trauma, because it left lasting psychological symptoms and disorders, but I seriously wonder where the line is, and these days trauma is just any unpleasant event and people "diagnose" everything from their armchairs or whatever chairs
Yes that's cause literally every human being has trauma and we're at an age where we can acknowledge that and get help to ease the pain of it and don't become addicts or a karen.if someone is open about their trauma and that makes you uncomfortable then just distance yourself from that person is really that easy. Even you have traumas is literally impossible to not have any. If you deny it means that you're incapable of introspection and are causing damage to the ones near you
Well that's a bit different. Trauma isn't something that just makes you go into fight or flight mode whenever you're reminded of it. Abuse isn't just physical or extreme either. The human mind is scary good at making good memeories out of horrible experiences. Introspection and help can end up showing some people that "Maybe my parents calling me fat since 12 years old messed me up." Or whatever you wanna say.
They're definitely different levels of these things though
I think it’s more like anything that goes against your personal autonomy is abuse, this including anything someone has already politely asked you to stop doing.
My biggest gripe with the therapy speak boundary convo is many folks enforce rules and toxic mentalities on their SO's under the guise of a boundary and healing in therapy that MUST be followed or else. A boundary is what I do in response to someone and a rule is me asking someone to change how they behave. These boundaries and rules can be reasonable/unreasonable and easy to do or is conflicting with your partners needs. Then you can decide how flexible those are. If a need you have is strict monogamy or 1 day a week min quality time, then you can 100% understand moving a date night for a busy week (flex) but be very firm in defining cheating as your end of the relationship. Talking to a SO about what is a boundary and rule for you is hard but not impossible. For example, If I tell my wife she can't leave the house or have friendships, that's toxic n abusive rules. A better way to put this is if you are friends with exs, I don't feel comfy with you spending time alone with them. Regardless of my insecurity and jealousy, I trust you and I can't stop you from doing that because its not my place to stop you. However, if you do I will be upset and we may talk about those feelings from time to time. It's on me to deal with jelly feelings or insecurity and it may help if you process those feelings with me. Then she can decided if it's okay to talk or deal with that TOGETHER. BUT as a fyi, If you cheat, I will leave the relationship and that's it for us. Those are boundaries that are healthier yet firm. Far better than what Jona asked for monogamous folks.
The media's been doing this for decades. I thought I was the only one that had noticed the weaponization. Finally someone talks about it.
The bigger issue here is the implication. If we normalize therapy speech, then it could raise awareness for therapy. However, it could also undermine therapy, at least by public image (which i believe is more important than some piece of papers among the scientific community), as people would no longer believe in true therapy, but going from weak remarks would decide against seeing a therapist.
all the speculation about that Jonah Hill situation aligns with my own experience and problems with therapy speak. the speculation hits the nail on the head: therapy speak is WAY too vague. It allows people to "set their boundaries" and only talk about their reaction to something they perceive as a problem, without going into the problem itself: whether they mean to or not they are guilting you into submission where it is difficult, if not impossible, to engage in deeper discussion. The person on the receiving end may not even know what the problem is and may be left really hurt and confused. It's a horrible form of miscommunication but it feels good to people because it allows them an easy out of talking about uncomfortable topics and feelings. It allows them to avoid doing any shadow work on themselves guilt free and with the illusion of "self improvement" and "self care". the fact you had to speculate on those texts yourself and analyze what the context MAY be just proves this. Only a few texts are shared but I guarantee most instances won't give any more clarity even with more context. the receiver just doesn't get it.
Jonah Hill's boundaries are not my boundaries, but you're not entitled to date Jonah Hill. I think it's fair to say, "if you act this way, we will break up", and it doesn't really matter what, "this way" is. If it's unacceptable to you, don't date that person. Date someone else.
That's a fair perspective, but she did have that job and lifestyle before they were dating. If that was outside his boundaries isn't it kinda bs to expect the her to let go of her passions to suit his emotions? If I couldn't handle people seeing my partner at beach I wouldnt go looking at surfers for my potential partners.
@@DisgruntledPeasant I completely agree with you.
@@DisgruntledPeasantmaybe you don’t know until you’re there
Completely fair and valid perspective.
I think Jonah is a goofball because he knew her lifestyle and values were incompatible with his and he still tried to make it work which it wouldn't. That is where he loses me.
She was a surfer prior to meeting you and her entering a relationship and expecting her to upend everything she was prior for you is just straight crazy 😂. He dated someone with zero compatability and wanted to force shit.
@@bag-o-bags Then it was on him to leave the relationship. Trying to control your partner's job is not appropriate if he changed his mind it is his responsibility to leave.
I have been in group therapy and I've heard people do this. It's hard to identify sometimes, but I'm getting better at it. One thing that helps me see it is asking, "Is this person enforcing their own boundaries? Or is this person asking someone else to enforce their boundaries?" It's fine to say, "I will not be in a relationship with a woman who speaks to other men," but it's not ok to say, "You can't speak to other men if you want to be in a relationship with me."
The problem is, if the person says, "I will not be in a relationship with a woman who speaks to other men" and enforces that, then they will most likely never be in a relationship because most women would not accept that condition. So they get into a relationship without making this expectation clear, then say, "You need to respect my boundaries." The thing is, they did not respect their own boundary when they got into the relationship in the first place. It's up to you to enforce your boundaries. It's not reasonable to expect other people to maintain that boundary for you. And if having a certain boundary means cutting yourself off from other people, and that's not something you want to do, then you need to change the boundary, not other people.
It’s a cringe epidemic.
Yeah it's so embarassing how people are learning to Express themselves and not being perfect at it. They should stop and go back to not communicating or trying to take care of themselves to stop embarassing themselves
@@kt68866No therapiespeak is passive aggressivenss. These people know how to communicate normally but chose to be condecending.
@thijsjong not necessarily true. Not everybody knows how to "communicate normally". Some people use this kind of extremely formal and clear and specific communication because they DONT know how to communicate like everyone else and have spent a lifetime being misunderstood and misinterpreted.
@@thijsjong lol ok
@@kt68866 They don't need to talk so verbosely and clinically. If that is how they express themselves they might have autism to be fair.
I love this video! I've been in therapy since I was 6, and therapy speak is a very natural way of speaking for me because of that. But I've noticed something similar with the idea of boundaries. It's such a tricky topic, especially in romantic relationships. Something I've learned from being married is that marriage is a constant rotation of checking in to evaluate what needs exist for the both of us, and to see if someone's needs aren't being met. Sometimes I have to go outside of my comfort zone for my husband, and that's ok. Sometimes my husband has to go outside of his comfort zone. But also, sometimes, there are times when there is a real boundary and that needs to be negotiated to figure out a solution. I'm not taking about MAJOR things here, but for example I get sensory overload at the grocery store. My husband likes going grocery shopping with me and finds it helpful to have a shopping buddy. So we work around this by having him do the "big grocery shopping" on his own, and we do the smaller quick-trips together to Trader Joe's or Wholefoods or what-ever.
My (now-ex) partner of 4 years started setting boundaries like "you are not allowed to speak to me for any reason, in any format, barring abject emergencies for the next 2 days because you did not leave to visit your mom like you said you wanted to. This is not a punishment, it's a natural consequence of your actions." Mind, I chose not to visit my mom because we had one car - his - and he wanted to use it that weekend too.
People with unaddressed issues around controlling others will use therapy speak to feel justified in trying to control the people around them while feeling like the good guy.
You’re so brilliant Ana, your videos always get me thinking and uplift my soul.
I believe boundaries are set with ourselves about behaviours/situations we will protect ourselves from. It’s more of an expectation if it concerns what someone else is allowed to do.
I've definitely known people who used therapy speak as a way of dodging around helping others. You can help them all you want but the moment you want to briefly share a minor life event it's "I don't have the space for this"
My favorite & only psychology channel I follow, I’ve learned so much about introspection from you ❤
My girlfriend expresses her emotions to me like this and then says I need to go to therapy. She has BPD and constantly brings up I may have something undiagnosed. It's rather annoying.
i can see how that can be annoying... i would hope they aren't accusing you of having bpd or anything specific they are just trying to share something that has helped them also this world we live in is traumatic and we aren't really taught how to handle alot of it it helps those of us even without a diagnoses
Doesn't sound worth it
maybe she's trying her best to communicate, bpd is hard enough, maybe this way of speaking is her trying her best to communicate in a healthy way? She's trying to reach out to you and connect with you and you're complaining about her in a youtube comments section.
Tbh it would probably help her a lot if you did go. BPD recovery happens a lot faster if the people in the close support network are on board with the treatment plan. They can understand why their loved one had such a strong reaction and learn ways to reassure the person and be less defensive.
There's not really any harm in going if you have the financial means to.
You could go to a therapy session with her, and talk with the therapist about ways she feels invalidated/fears abandonment (very common BPD triggers) and then you could work together to be a support while also keeping yourself emotionally safe around her when shes having a really bad episode - it could help make your relationship even stronger.
I think a lot of people in relationships see it as "I don't need therapy I'm not the one with the problem"
But you don't have to have mental illness to improve your communication and find ways to manage stress.
@@alrighttumbleweed4782it’s not his job to speed up her recovery. If she has a personality disorder it’s mostly on her. It’s not his job to walk on eggshells to avoid her endless abandonment triggers that she will likely use to control and manipulate him. often times people with BPD project their issues on their support system bc they are unable to face how they are the problem. I’ve seen Reddit posts where people with BPD abuse therapy speak for getting out of why they cheated on their partners.
Thank you Ana. This video put my feelings into the words. Its confusing to feel like you are being controled while the other person is just “setting their boundry”. Now I understand better what is happening.
Narcissist has been thrown around so much that sadly it loses its definition and the meaning becomes whatever the public make it. Therapy is still in its infancy as a means of helping ppl and this is not helping.
I honestly believe that it has a lot to do with younger people (and no, I'm not a boomer 😅) not having the same amount of unsupervised social interactions as previous generations. We end up being pretty helpless around people a lot of the time, unable to deal with conflict and completely surprised that some people (including ourselves) are just assholes sometimes. And not necessarily narcissists.
Therapy is not in it's infancy at all. This kind of stilted therapy speak making it's way into the general public is what's new.
I agree that "narrcisist" has become incredibly overused though. People caring more about themselves than other people sometimes isn't "narcissistic".
@@BiggieTrismegistus What part of therapy could be considered a science? Of that science, how therapeutic is it? What part of therapy could be considered consistent and developed?
Yup. One problem that I and some others have is really telling the difference between being articulate and honest, with good intentions...and not using "therapy speak" as a way to weaponize and not come off as pretentious.
I do agree that it depends on how it's used, and that they are tools that can used for either bad or good intentions. The context matters and the blame shouldn't be put on the words themselves...really it's on the person who is using those words.
Plus, sometimes just listening and being present, can be better than trying to offer a detailed solution right away. People who have anxiety and depressed don't always want a solution thrown as them(either as a way to say "get over it" to them or as a brush off).
Sometimes they just want a listening ear or a shoulder to lean on.
Thank you for making this vid.
I'm part of a group that uses some therapy speak as shorthand to inform others of where we are struggling or to day thank you for accommodating a need we did not articulate. I think it can go both ways but has a place as a useful tool to articulate needs when in a hard place.
This video almost made me cry! I used to be friends with two girls who would consistently do what you talk about in the final minute of this video. They would say something hurtful in therapy speak, and I would be the bad person if I disagreed. Conversely, if I wanted to express how I felt to them, I was also the bad person, because I wasn't using the exact right phrasing (let's say I said "I don't like it when you do that" but I should have said "I feel hurt when you display this behavior"). It got to be so bad that I'd sometimes start sweating and shaking when I had to text them. It's so hard to explain to people why I'm not friends with these girls anymore, but this video hits the nail on its head. Thank you for giving this phenomenon a voice.
I really like your channel, I forgotten that i had subscribed to it! So, I got hit with therapy speak for the first time in 2009. I was so dense that they ended up having to tell me plainly that I wasn't attractive. It's weird because I am not very direct. This has worked for me by keeping me out of trouble sometimes, like with dangerous people, but I feel inept at talking to people I don't know. People have used something like therapy speak as a sort of subliminal double talk, as I perceive it. And I see why people use it. In this day, who wants to make enemies? If you're talking about that, you must be gansta! Most of us aren't. Since those days, I have learned more about taking hints, understanding my own worth, and just asking myself what other people want from me. It's just a learning curve, and we all come to it in our journey. I don't really expect much from people, trust them, and I'd like to do without them most days. But that's another story. ❤
i loved this entire video! every point was very eloquently put and i would absolutely agree; therapy speak is not the issue, it's the people who are weaponizing it. i've set boundaries in a very cold way after the line being crossed several times and no changes after a polite discussion. however being unsympathetic in every conversation and having controlling 'boundaries' and weaponizing language meant to help people is.. gross and disingenuous
How ya been? Missed seeing you in my feed. You make me feel normal, and that is good😊
this picks up on something that's troubled me increasingly over the last year or two. subbed
Also, there has to be a distinction between privacy and secrecy. I think the opposite of "privacy" is "secrecy". Betrayal is just the result of secrecy.
Privacy and discretion are good; secrecy, lying and deception aren't.
It's very important how we discuss these things because these things can be very easily co-opted by manipulators who are masters of deception.
Finding this video was very validating, gut wrenching and eye opening. My ex partner used this therapy speech heavily to warp my reality and perception of myself and them. Suddenly I was the over emotional one, the crazy one and unable to say anything because they were "working on themselves" and I would hinder them being their "authenthic selfs." They were never gaslighting or abusive because they called themselves "empath" and whenever I had a reaction to their abuse, be it crying, panicing or anger, they were "not responsible for my feelings." Interestingly they do identify a lot with the Corporate world.
This therapy speech resulted into me not having any ground for self defense - because all they said was "logical", "rational", and pseudo - intellectual. Nothing helped the self reflection with the fact, that they were incredibly cruel, and violent and self serving.
I am very happy to be out of this relationship.
Its good to see you not making blanket judgment's on Jonah Hill like I see people doing super frequently when relationship drama blows up like this.
What a great discussion!
I've learned about boundaries that they're usually about how you react, not controlling other people. So when JH essentially framed his criticisms of his gf as "if you want to be yourself then we need to break up", it seemed more controlling. Instead he could have said something like, "if you're going to do this then I'm going to react this way", not taking an all-or-nothing approach. If he'd done that, he might have seen that trying to tell a surfer not to wear swimwear or be friends with her friends or whatever was kind of ridiculous. Instead he could say, "this isn't working", which seems more assertive and less passive aggressive. And "this isn't working for us" takes accountability for his part in it, unlike his "boundaries" that made her the problem.
One way I can think of that we use boundaries in an "all-or-nothing" way is for interventions. When you tell a loved one, "I can't enable you anymore, either you get help or I can't talk to you."Is that still the way addiction specialists tend to handle these situations? Since it's predicated on what the loved one with addiction will do, it seems less "healthy boundary"-like.
Îți mulțumesc frumos pentru conținutul interesant pe care-l faci public pentru noi, dragă Ana :) !
i'm so glad someone is talking about boundaries like this. i think a lot of people confuse boundaries with desires. for example, i'd love to hang out with my boyfriend every single day! but that's not realistic for him and his schedule (or a lot people for that matter). i could respect that and be happy just seeing each other once or twice a week, or i could call that a boundary and accuse my boyfriend of neglecting me because he didn't hang out with me one day.
to me, i think the line between a healthy and unhealthy boundary may be in how much it affects the other person. asking to hang out every day would take a lot of time and could impact his personal and social lives, but asking him to text me at least a few times a day is easy to fit into even a busy schedule. asking your surf instructor girlfriend not to surf with men could decimate her livelihood, but asking her to text and let you know beforehand when she'll be teaching a man establishes trust and transparency without harming her job. great video, and thank you for encouraging this conversation :)
Honestly, I think people who use "hyper-individualistic boundary-setting therapy speak" are doing us all a favor. They are letting you know that they are NOT the person you want as a friend or partner, and that you should thank your lucky stars that you're finding that out sooner rather than later. I find therapy speak PROFOUNDLY preferable to a full volume scree of verbal abuse that narcissists so often employ in similar circumstance.
wow, thank you for putting a name to an obnoxious behavioral pattern i've been observing in someone in my life for a while. i couldn't quite pin it down until now.
My ex did this alllll the time. I felt so powerless to stand up for my own feelings because I would just be accused of “not respecting his boundaries”. You really hit the nail on the head towards the end where you say they’re essentially bating us to shut us down from bringing up any of our own thoughts or concerns, and makes it so there is absolutely zero self reflection on their end.
I’ve been super turned off by therapy speak because of how much my ex weaponized it, but this has been really validating and I completely see the ways in which this *can* be healthy and authentic, and the ways in which it’s not.
Thanks for a great video!
Glad to see he's your ex. My current relationship I make it very clear that, there is nothing we can't talk about.
This video supported me a lot.
A dude with a dog is literally my ex-best friend who wrote an entire wall of therapy speak explaining why she didn’t write a damn word when my uncle died.
I believe context matters. My understanding from the Jonah Hill situation is that when you’re a part of Hollywood, there’s many of opportunities for parties that typically provide hard drugs and with liquor getting involved that lifestyle becomes addictive. He’s probably ran into some folks in his career who have abused that lifestyle and his boundaries. When you think of the predators that are in the industry or just the lifestyle of Hollywood, her actions can draw unwanted attention that he may not wanna deal with. At least it’s from my perspective.
Yeah I thought drugs when he mentioned "partying". To my knowledge he's talked about issues with drugs in the past.
@@Diggidydave13 Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised with the guy who made Superbad at 20 something years old was going a little heavy on drugs and alcohol in Hollywood. He dropped that crazy weight at one point too, might’ve been then but that’s just speculation on my part.
I agree with some (maybe most) of her points in this video. One point with which I agree is an individual should always reflect on their relationship “boundaries” to assess if any specific “boundary” is self serving in a positive way or are you merely holding tightly to a “boundary” that is actually inhibiting your own positive growth. Having said that, assessing that a person’s “boundaries” (ie standards) for who they engage with romantically or any type of relationship are unreasonable “boundaries” is in and of itself unreasonable if not bold arrogance. There is no insight a person can have of another individual’s path that would grant wisdom over another’s relationships. The problem with Hill’s texts have less to do with “therapy speak” or what his “boundaries” are. His problem is communicating an expectation to a person that either they change from who they were before he met them or they “don’t care” and they “don’t get it.” If she’s not for you then be adult enough to move the f**k on without attempting to wax eloquently about your “boundaries”.
This video is very useful. I feel like I'm better informed in setting boundaries in a way that won't overstep what is proper.
This happened to me when my best friend (at the time) told me that she actually didn’t want to be my maid of honor because “it wasn’t right for her happiness”
Thank you for putting a name to this. Whenever I encounter people using this in a way that weaponizes communication I usually say “hey we’re not lawyers. Talk to me like a human being”
Yeah. I’m finding these videos useful, and how those texts are being analyzed is making it so much more clear how to set boundaries and what appropriate boundaries are. Because that’s very clearly a case of “these are boundaries, but they are very inappropriate ones.”
Seems to me like he didn’t do anything wrong and was just trying to chill her out since she was making threats and screenshotting old convos like she would use them against him. Which she did.
These texts are two years old. He just had a kid, she is salty and not over him yet so she needed the drama
Exactly my thought. What is wrong with putting your boundaries the way you like. If it is excessive, it is only hurting you by keeping you alone. How is that controlling or narcissistic.
This was a great video! I really appreciated how measured but honest it was.
I feel like some of these “boundaries” can’t really be considered boundaries because it is made with the intent to control not to maintain themselves mentally
17:21 this really hits home for me. I feels like someone is talking 'at' me under the guise of actually having a conversation.
As a layman that dabbles in philosophy, my immediate reaction to the texts was "yes having and sharing boundaries is appropriate, but you have to make sure your boundaries are appropriate" Like you said, telling a partner they can't go out without you is a wildly inappropriate boundary. I always frame my spouse and I's relationship challenges / boundaries / etc is the context of what is most conducive to a fulfilling marriage for us both and what is proper for a rational person striving for a mutually fulfilling relationship. I'm very influenced by Aristotle's nichomacean ethics so I always ask myself - is it eudaemonic?
Was Aristotle ever in a relationship 🤔
@@henrytep8884 he was, he married Pythias and had a daughter, she died soon after and he had another child later with Herpyllis, a son named Nicomacus for which his work Nicomacean ethics is named after.
amazing overview and a very healthy take on it. Thanks for explaining so clearly, Ana! Multumesc
Waaaaait…I’m confused. Ana, I legit thought you would clarify that what Jonah Hill labels as “boundaries” are actually his *needs* or *preferences* or *desires* for his partner? 🤔
Everything I’ve read/heard until this point gave me the impression that boundaries refer to ourselves and ourselves alone. How we want to be treated/touched/communicated with/etc. the boundary begins & ends with us & our personal space.
If we want/don’t want our partner to behave in a certain way/do certain things with their body, etc…are those not our preferences FOR them? Our needs FROM them? I didn’t even think the term boundary was appropriate to use here, linguistically or therapeutically? I’d love clarity on that.
I do agree on the greater message of your video, and the fact that we need to think about *why* we have the expectations/needs/desires that we do for/of our partner. Is it coming from a place of control due to insecurity? That’s the vibe I got from Jonah, though I think there is room for compromise.
This issue of hobbies & friendships with people of the opposite sex came up for me in a recent relationship, it seems timely for us as a collective. Your insight is very grounding & valuable!
i’ve learned to use bits of therapy-speak with my friends. communication has been a lot better because of it. i have my own boundaries when it comes to touch and privacy, which basically amounts to “just ask me, i won’t be an asshole if you forget or do something without knowing”. it works out nicely and makes it easier to explain our feelings and needs
i’ve also been stuck in a friend group where “boundaries” would come in the form of not allowing me to show affection or talk about my interests. i asked why. they simply told me that they thought it was annoying and they didn’t like it. needless to say, i don’t really talk to them anymore
I used to know a girl in middle school was did this daily. She would tell myself and all our friends constantly every dark thought she had, blowing up our phones threatening to hurt herself weekly. We would talk her down over and over. But when one of us would be struggling with the same things and we would try to lean back on her, she would tell us she didn't have "space" for us and that she was setting a "boundary" because us talking about our struggles was "triggering" and she never supported anyone the way she manipulated all of us into supporting her. We were so scared she would hurt herself We let her get away with it....
Absolutely fantastic. I really appreciate your balanced take on the topic.
Vented to my lash tech about mom daughter things, got a bit emotional. Overheard the girls next over use the word toxic this and that,whiles glancing at me.
As a barista I listened to everyone gladly and still smile for my tips.
I Didn't go back. I spend 100+ tip and 1hour of my time in your business for you to call me toxic?
Mind your manners and your business ladies.
They pay...
If you want others to mind their own business, then don't spread yours in their space, if it's truly "your business" then keep it that way.
Thank you for this. I was diagnosed with a mental disorder (not going into details on that) and my sister said some...pretty stigmatizing and awful things about it. I was trying to correct the misinformation and she kept on trying to shut down the conversation, saying that it was her "boundary" to stop talking to me whenever the conversation basically stressed her out too much. It really, really hurt me. It still does.