Solar Market Crash 2024
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
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Solar Surge will teach you all about being energy independent and how to set up your home to run off-the-grid during an emergency. We empower families to take control of their energy generation and storage so that they will never be left in the dark without electricity.
In this video, Joe explains the five factors that contributed to the 2023 solar market crash and what we need to do in 2024 to fix it.
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thank God I went on a diy system and have no regrets been on solar energy for two years now and haven't had any issues. my solar system is all paid for I spend less than $8,000. these companies charging over 60k its ridiculous.
Can you please share your equipment?
@JamesG1126 12 brand new jinko bifacial solar panels got a great deal on them rated for 405 watts each plus up to an extra 25% from the back since their bifacial. for the inverters, I had two lv6548 paired with three orient power wall batteries for a bit over 15kwh. recently, I swiped out the two lv6548 for a eg4 6000xp better idle consumption. so far no issues with my system and did not have to break the bank for it. I do live in the caribbean where is 90% sunny if that helps in anything
@@prepsolar787make some videos on this please.
Yeah. I’m a victim of the scam. But will try to reuse the equipment and buy eg4 system with batteries
I set up an off grid DIY system. Best option.
I installed my own grid-tied solar in Southern California. Started my NEM 2.0 application with SCE in February 2023, right after applying for a permit. It took 9 months to get the permit from the city of Thousand Oaks, which put me well past the NEM 2.0 deadline; when I went back to the SCE website to finally complete the application by uploading my final inspection card, I found all my docs were deleted. I thought I was screwed, but after emailing SCE and pointing out that I'd already paid the fee back in Feb, they made an exception and let me in under NEM 2.0. Finally got permission to turn on in Feb '24.
Hey my home town! currently in Canyon Lake, started my own company as a tech, wanted to provide solar without the sales guy making all the money... well crap... still do deals, but mostly for friends and family at basically cost of parts and a 6 pack for the labor
DON'T GO ON GRID OR SIGN A SOLAR CONTRACT. THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL SPEAKERS WITH THE DEVIL OF A RIP OFF. GO OFF GRID SEPERATE FROM EDISON OR A POWER COMPANY.
Good for you that you finally got yours commissioned. My utility kept dangling the carrot until I got disgusted and went with Lifep04 storage and now I'm off the grid electrically. I am sooo glad I did because the utilities keep fighting to reduce or eliminate the payback to homeowners for the energy they export. Bottom line, the utilities aren't in business to pay you for electricity. They want to SELL electricity. So glad I did.
If you are buying a system from a company that doesnt have a license and just sells the job and sub out the work you already lost heavily.
I finally pulled the trigger in August . . . what an absolute cluster the entire process was. I had to be my own Project Manager if I wanted anything done in a timely manner. Between dealing with the solar company owner, installers, and idiot inspectors who had never seen my type of system before it was an absolute nightmare. There was ZERO communication unless I initiated it, no design reviews, and no detailed breakout of what I was buying. I kind of knew what I was getting into but for those that don't it will be a VERY frustrating process.
i quit a company because of this. it blew my mind how incompetent they were
I had my own solar business and I completely quit the solar industry because I was competing with a bunch of idiots.
OUTSTANDING! As a retired CEO from the construction industry, I have seen these problems before. I also have seen companies come and go. Twenty to thirty year warranties are worthless if the company is bankrupt. And, corrupt and shoddy workmanship is common in emerging market segments. Thank you for your expertise in solar.
Warranties should mean there is money held in escrow in case the company goes under... Are there not laws about this kind of thing? The businesses that I have been interested in all do this with their warranty obligations anyways...
@@0ooTheMAXXoo0 Great idea! I wish that had been the case with three of my purchases. Most of the warranties my companies granted were for only one year although any longer warranties provided for things such as equipment purchases passed through to the owner and I had no liability beyond the one year.
Do you know off any solar companies that have not gone bankrupt?
I'm an HVAC contractor in Texas and have seen a lot of solar systems in customers homes.
The design and installations are almost universally awful.
After I get my new standing seam metal roof installed, I'll do my solar and battery storage myself...
I see a lot of youtube videos bout solar and farming it out to contractors and such, but I have yet to see 1 where someone does a DIY start to finish compilation. It would be cool if you did that while you navigate your install.
In Australia, electricity is expensive and solar is cheap. Both federal and state governments subsidise solar panel (and battery) installations. This results in a 6.6kW panel set costing $3000 instead of $8000. They can only be installed by licensed installers with accredited electricians. Now 30% of houses have solar panels.
The best video for the general public!! Few people understand the extra challanges of permiting, electrical integration, etc. The solar battery installation is what we refer as custom work or job they are never cookie cutter.
Very true. Installers need to very careful with estimating solar + battery jobs to understand the real costs.
That is a good point. But that is the only time I plan to use it is grid down. In my neck of the woods it's hurricane season's Sportage outings.
@@SolarSurgewatching helped me understand why some companies were heavily discouraging us from getting a battery. That said, I did find the reasoning compelling enough to wait for what's happening in batteries and in EVs to shake out and settle before doing all the work necessary to upgrade all the electrical. For now, just glad to have made it in NEM 2.0
@@razorx999 I would just ask for the "cash discount" and see what they offer. Depending on the loan option they presented, it could be 20-35% savings.
Here in Puerto Rico solar makes a lot of sense. We have 1:1 net metering but the grid can be unstable depending on the area or sometimes all of Puerto Rico. Last year we installed for $20k (full paid), 6.5KW in pv, solark 8k, 10K battery and it has beeen solid. A lot of people are installing with battery. There are a lot of companies here giving unreasonable quotes for similar systems or offering renting . Our company (Mundo Solar) is mainly a solar component distributor, but they do solar installations. They have competitive offers/price and now for $20k you can get a better system overall than ours.
We used SunPower in California and they were great - installed panels and batteries and tied into a previous system that is leased. We decided to pay cash for their system and so happy with it.
Well now you are screwed because they are bankrupt. I hope nothing goes wrong with your system or the headaches will begin. And you will never get out of that lease while simultaneously never finding someone to service your equipment.
Joe, your presentations are so well done. Thanks.
Well said. As a 20+ year solar contractor, I couldn't disagree with anything you said. Adding batteries to a grid tied system can be way more complex. Out here in Colorado, we still have net metering ( so far ) and our electricity is cheap, so batteries are mostly for emergency backup and off-grid homes. I really appreciate your straight forward, no BS, view of the solar industry.
Great information. I have 35 solar panels and 2 batteries for 3 years my ínstaler was PEG Energy at Laredo Texas, very professionals, and the financial was done by MOSAIC with a low interest rate
I'm not been Paid for this comment.
Two years ago, I ended up doing all my own install of a 13KW 240/120VAC house system with 12KW of solar and 45KWh of battery storage, except for the 120/240VAC side of things where I hired an electrician. In total it cost me about $40,000 (and a lot of my time), and I saved about $40,000 over hiring a solar installation company. The system doesn't backfeed into the grid, and this prevented a lot of permitting and UL certification headaches. Furthermore, as I now understand how everything works, having designed the system, and ordered, and purchased all the components myself, then long term maintenance is not a problem either. Today, panels and batteries have come down in price, so it would now cost about $15,000 less than it did two years ago. The other nice benefit is "what powercut?".
Could you share the details of your system. I'm trying to build an offgrid whole house system.
Can you share it with me also please
If you are going to do solar that is the way.. the only problem is battery life.. will they last 5 years or 20? Hard to spend that much money every 10 years.. electricity in the USA is cheap.
@@jonathantaylor6926 no it is not, not in California!
I am so grateful that I chose a local solar company that had a long history going back to solar projects in Europe before the family business expanded to Texas. It was because of Solar Surge that I gave a lot of consideration to the reputation and financial health of my contractor; until I watched Joe's videos, I hadn't really thought about what problems I could face if my installer went bankrupt mid-project or during the warranty period.
I made a mistake of going with a contactor because he had done work in my neighborhood and had navigated the HOA approval process.
That was a mistake, what a nightmare. I told him before the job started, "there is no such thing as a change order". He was 3 months late, was not correct on having to downgrade the main panel from 200 to 150 (they had to downgrade it) and then tried to hand me a change order when the system was done after all the work was complete.
I told him what he could do with his change order.
Good to hear. DIY solar is great, 99% of the contractor stuff etc is all way overpriced scams
The high finance rates are killing solar for many.
It's a bad investment
GOT APPROVED for NEM 2.0 just under the wire in April 2023 in California. Had my system installed in Oct 2023 (I Got approved for 150% of the solar panels I need) by saying I was getting an EV. I feel sorry for people who have to go under NEM 3.0 and get 75% less back. It's a rip-off. But that is what the Electric companies wanted and planned. I'm not paying an extra $25k in batteries either, that has to be replaced in 10 years.
Good for you making the deadline. You are right about the batteries, you have to pay 20k for them and just about the time you pay them off they are in need of replacement. Solar in California is officially dead now. I can't see any use case for it unless someone has 50k burning in their wallet they're trying to get rid of.
Congratulations. You were another person who legally screwed your fellow utility rate payers and tax payers. Sleep well?
@@philipdamask2279 When you fill out your 1040 return, do you ignore all of the legal exemptions, deductions and credits as that would be screwing your fellow income tax payers?
Excellent and much needed commentary Joe!
Thank you.
Always a BIG thank you to you Joe for the wonderful public service you do for the entire solar energy industry & our nation! You're also very well spoken as well. Keep on keeping on Joe! And don't change the jingle music on your your videos-I like it! 😉
I’m a recently retired electrical building inspector myself and just finished a 25 year career and completing approximately 60,000 building inspections, today I just re-opened my building contracting business with electrical service, plumbing, mechanical, hvacr services
Are you advertising on here for free?
I work for an energy storage manufacturer and it is absolutely stunning how undertrained most solar contractors are these days. A good number of them don't even read the manual and they just "wing it" with their installations and they have numerous problems and the homeowner gets screwed because the system is so poorly installed.
I've been super hesitant to get into solar for all the reasons joe mentioned namely a shady solar company tearing up my roof and my insurance policy canceled. With this channel I've leaned a lot and I'm definitely a buyer I just have to find a solar company I can trust with my house.
Residential rooftop solar is a scam. 1:1 net metering will eventually go away.. "selling" your "excess power" at peak generation sounds nice but that only works because solar power is currently treated special and has no transmission fees. Generating power is one thing.. getting the power to the end user is another.. and as it stands people selling solar back onto the grid get to that very expensive grid.. for free. I wouldn't bank on that being like that forever.
So many people have been scammed and now everybody knows. Interest rates have very little to do with it….it is people getting terribly ripped off on a wholesale basis. 80% of solar install companies have gone bankrupt. Additionally, only about 30% of what you see on rooftops is operational. Keeping these systems running is tricky and you need to be a DC/AC electrical expert, ie, a solar geek, a solar hobby guy. If you are not, you are going to get screwed 9 ways to Sunday just to keep it running…like my sister. Many insurance companies will not insure homes with panels….roof leaks, roof accidents, roof fires, etc.
Ure right, it's not about interest rates. Much more than that.
Well said.
Thanks for having a good heart for your clients joe this is very rare today
Great video. Such great information.
2023 was our best year but I just have a small growing company. We don’t use predatory sales or finance organizations. Let’s make the future better! Let’s put the immediate and long-term customer experience top of mind.
Hello Joe, hope you are well: informative and educational as always!!
As someone who deals in the California wholesale power market, I can definitively say that every new MW of solar installed without storage is a waste of resources. Midday negative market prices are here to stay until massive amounts of storage capacity is built. The residential solar installation business should move aggressively to selling and installing battery storage (even without solar) in any utility area that has time-of-use power prices. Many of the new hybrid systems offer fantastic capabilities to time shift power use as well as add in solar and emergency generator sources down the road if the economics or local power outages make it desirable.
Good summary of the challenges in '23.
Here in the UK it is now possible to have solar with BETTER than net metering if you use a battery. Better than 2:1 is achievable... now anyone here letting their meter roll backwards is just wasting money!
This was a really relevant video for me at this time. I purchased LG panels and Enphase infrastructure with batteries for my home and ADU in California. The solar service was turned up a year ago and I just got my first true-up bill. I was shocked that I owed $800 when the Enphase reports had been telling me I was generating as much as 4X of my consumption (peak of summer) and as low as 1X consumption ("peak" of winter). Honestly I should have seen this coming because PG&E does provide a running estimate of true-up costs, but reading PG&E bills isn't my favorite leisure past time.
Enphase is coming out to check things (my installer swears they installed everything correctly) and based on this video it wouldn't surprise me if the batteries aren't configured properly. My meter is running even after the Enphase report says the batteries are at 100%. I use the Self-Consumption battery profile, so the batteries should power everything well into the night and early morning.
My installer is not fly-by-night and I have great trust in their business ethics. I'll be interested in seeing if this is a case of them not knowing what they don't know.
I have a similar setup except it’s Tesla everything (solar panels, inverter, batteries, cars, car charger). I have a ~$2k annual True-Up, but a large part of that is charging 2-3 EVs nightly, and I figure fuel costs would be about $2k per year per car if they were ICE vehicles.
Everything works together seamlessly. My only regret is not getting a larger PV system before PG&E changed the net metering policy.
That’s what happens when companies start charging crazy prices and treating their customers like crap. Same as auto dealers. The ones with integrity during the great inflation and supply chain mess will continue to survive and the ones that were greedy, fraudulent and dishonest can wither and die for all I care.
I had a couple of quotes in April ‘21 for solar and felt like I was trying to give them my money and they were doing me a favor. I trusted my gut and pulled the plug. Now I have a quote from a trusted local installer at 2.80/watt versus $3.20/watt in 2021. I went back to the greedy installer yesterday to update my proposal just for giggles and he quoted me $3.60/watt. See what I mean? This is just a market correction. Same as what is going on in the RV industry and I believe what is still to come in the auto industry. Not so much in home sales.
My friend, I've been in the business for 10 years and that price you're paying is way too low. Way too low. It's not sustainable. That earlier quote is a fair, reasonable and sustainable price.
Any company selling is low as you've been just offered typically does not have a good long-term projection.
Here's where this will all bite you: When that cheapo company goes out of business, nobody - and I mean nobody - will want to work on that system. You'll eventually have a dead system on your roof that nobody will touch. You'll even have to pay to remove it.
I used to work in banking where I learned this wonderful axiom: "Bulls make money. Bears make money. Hogs get slaughtered."
I'd like to add that with the coming of bidirectional charging (and my knowledge is mostly gleaned from your videos) it is probably best if most people avoid installing batteries for the next few years.
@idam7319 Good luck with your business...and it doesn't surprise me that you used to work in banking. Also, EnergySage says that I'm paying right about industry average for that panel and I trust them more than you.
@@chriseidam7319 EnergySage says it is industry average for that panel with a company that is Elite+ screened and verified. Guess I trust them more than a former banker that now is dealing in Solar.
@@chriseidam7319 My friend, the fact that you were once in banking and decided to start selling solar speaks volumes and proves my point.
We need more regulation on the solar industry to give consumers more confidence. Our installer who was in business for 17 years went bankrupt 4 months after we signed up with them.
Unfortunately, this happens very frequently.
More regulations = higher cost.
@@ruds2600 ill take a little higher cost over my solar company doing shady stuff and going bankrupt after doing an awful install.
Also the margins on those solar systems are very large right now. It's the support that costs. This is why many of the installers basically scam people and run away.
Great summary of the state of our industry. The good news is there are a lot of really good installers out there who are doing things the right way. They will continue to rise to the top.
Currently my average electric bill is $60.00 per month so ROI would take a really long time for solar with battery.
It's not about ROI. It's about having electricity when the grid is down.
I had a very good solar company, but the cost was high. I don’t regret this for a minute as you will deal with quality long after you are done crying over the price. However, it did push out the break-even time well past 10 years.
Yup and you have to pay for energy your entire life if you stayed with the electric company. If its 10 years or 20 years its always good financially to go solar with battery. Sum people try to think about getting solar as they would the stock market with rate of return ect. Thats the wrong way to think about it. Every utility has a monopoly on power and poor customer service for your money.
@@gamerzieg3211 No, it absolutely isn’t always good to go with solar financially. Not even close. Every installation needs to be modeled specifically as many do not make economic sense, particularly those with batteries. Now, if your rationale is something other than economic, say you simply want to be independent, then unhook from the grid and go solar on your own. Nothing wrong with that. And while every utility is a monopoly out of necessity, not every one provides poor customer service. I am served by a cooperative and am on the cooperative board and our customer service is very good and we have many years of customer survey data to prove it. You are simply wrong here on all counts.
@@LTVoyager Sorry your wrong but that's okay.
@@gamerzieg3211 Nope, not even close to being wrong. Thankfully, most people are smart enough to no listen to folks like you.
@@LTVoyagerwow, that was extremely negative. @gamerzieg3211 is actually correct. No matter what the monopolized electric companies will always increase their rates. Therefore will always outpace your solar rate. Just because you may have had a bad experience doesn’t mean you should project that on someone else. Their experience was a good one!! Why be combative/argumentative, because your experience was different/negative!!
Can we get an explanation on why net-metering is going away for so many states? Love the channel!
Yes I just seen a few solar companies go out of business in the Albuquerque New Mexico area like NM solar etc any how when they went out of business they had taken a lot of start up money from different home owners and did not complete the system so the home owner had to hire another company to finish the system
In mid-2022, we were told our solar install would be done in 4 to 5 months from the time we signed the contract. It took 12. The company didn’t rip us off, and they slowly corrected minor mistakes. Our only gripe was the time it took to get the system running. We were going to give the company a bad Yelp review…but we still need to do business with them from time to time on our system, so we’re afraid to speak up, especially given the trouble solar companies are having staying in business. What if our negative review decreases their sales, and they go under? Who will service our solar then?
This is a good video. There are a lot of unprepared solar contractors out there who do not know what they are getting into with batteries and systems that can operate through a power outage.
What you talked about with the bad actors is a big reason why I got out of the solar industry here in Texas. Been trying to break into the installation side
I wish you success and installation is tough, especially today’s environment.
California is supposed to be the example for the rest of the country when it comes to solar and renewable energy, but they contradicted themselves in 2023 with Net Metering 3.0. This eliminated bill credits with battery storage at an additional cost of $15,000-$25,000. The California Energy Commission is a monopoly with more power than the governor! California home owners are not biting.
Biggest problem is states deciding no renewable allowed.
I did a 5kw system with battery, everything installed myself using ecoflow's system for 8k. When a contractor tells me 20k+ without batteries you really wonder why it's so expensive. And with the ecoflow system if I want to add another battery I just add one to the stack... The current solar systems are just overpriced. When cars like the cybertruck cost 60k for 120Kwh battery, 10kw inverter, and car. Then you compare that to Enphase if you want the same size battery it'll cost you 72k and you still need the rest of the system built out for the batteries to function. It's a no-brainer why people feel like they are being ripped off. Everything feels so overpriced when you touch anything solar. Even though you have a 30% tax incentive these devices should be affordable before the tax incentive. Not to mention the installation costs...
Honestly people it’s how you market. Some people i know doing 20-30 a month just with 1 person & office easily 150-300 a month. If you do social media marketing your sells does drop. Tesla doesn’t spend add money on its car for a reason and same for some solar companies.
In Jamaica they don't do it right the lighting strikes it and no protection my batteries had to top up I was over charge
Yes, I've heard Noone talking about lightening/ surge protection
Got a solar bid that was 1/3rd higher than a local installer. Checked back and found they had assumed I'd want it financed: the 'bank'/shark they're contracting with takes a 34% fee on the sum. The usurious AppleStore/Uber scam is being repeated across the board in America. --Fuck that-- oh my...
I work for a contractor that also does solar installations. Almost all the solar companies around me are terrible. My advice would be to find a contractor that installs solar and not a solar contractor.
I work in the industry.
The best set up I have seen so far is to work with a reputable local sales company that works with reputable local installers.
I've never seen nor worked at one company that did both things well together.
The worst companies try to do it all in one. Those are the companies with the worst service and often the highest prices. I have seen dealer fees on loans as high as 43% at the bigger companies.
Thanks Joe.
Ran into an odd situation that there is an older electrical meter and not a digital meter connected to a house which is needed for payback. Its been 'out of stock' for 1.5 years already. So yea, thats 1.5 yrs that home owner can not fully use there system.
That stinks. Where are you located?
I'm able to purchase solar panels up front. What scares me are contractors not doing a good job installing, holes in roof, microinvertors not functioning, etc....Not to mention poor customer service, and negative reviews I read on the BBB website.
Very very good analysis of the industry. The breathe of fresh air is nice.
However - I feel like such a key factor was missed that really plays a big role into consumers distrust of solar & whether or not consumers get screwed over. That key factor is: the sales reps!!
Im in Southern California - so the installers we work with, and a majority of the installers in the area for that matter, install a solar pv + battery system veryyy well. They take their time, and ensure to explain everything that they did to the HO as it's happening & afterwards.
The point where consumers get screwed over (and can contribute to a company shutting its doors), is whether or not their sales rep 1) understands how to size a system & what the home actually needs, 2) actually listens to the HO's concerns, priorities, and expectations with solar, and throughly explains everything so the client is 100% confident in their decision without pressure from a sales rep, and finally 3) will actually quote the HO that system & explain why they need it & how it fits with their best interests in mind, and actually is there every step of the way to ensure the expectations are met - because there are reps that Ive seen quote them a lesser system to increase their commission & show more "savings" when in reality now that HO will be paying both a solar bill & a utility bill every month, and sometimes Im the first rep to explain to them anything of the sorts or how the sizing actually works (one of the most common negative reviews & experiences i read online about solar is A) still having a utility bill, a large one, on top of their solar and/or B) the HO never hears from or sees the sales rep again after signing.)
Having a rep who actually listens & works to find the best option for you is, in my opinion, one of the most important things in a solar sale.
Thanks Joe for the industry overview, California has not upgraded it's power grid, power management and power supplies in probably 50 years. Because of this and the growing push by the government to move to electric vehicles California is taking power from home owners which in turn makes solar not feasible for most Californians.
I try to advise my clients to hire a local company where you can have a brick and mortar location to call or visit if any problems should arise my experience that I have seen with hiring out of state companies is that the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing, and if the home owner client has a technical problems in the field with electrical or building corrections having to get fixed to pass the solar system to
Just stumbled to your UA-cam channel by chance. You have a very balance approach. A great job ! Keep it up
My contractor was a bad actor. My system is grid tied with batteries. In the last year the system has been down twice for inverter. Its down now. It been down for 2 weeks and they will be out in 10 days to replace. I do not think i would use Titan again.
That's a shame. I've heard similar stories from many solar homeowners.
Solar contractors are like dealing with used car salesmen or going to a casino and expecting to win, everyone knows those odds…
Great overview. I would love to see your opinion on off grid systems and perhaps companies like signature solar over there in texas, or current connected, etc.
I think off-grid systems are great for the right applications like hunting cabins, man caves, etc. But for the traditional home, it's not practical to go fully off-grid.
@@SolarSurgeI'm curious why you think that it's not practical for a traditional house to go off grid?
@@simonpaine2347 spending 20 to 30k on batteries and another 10 to 20k on a whole lot of solar, then needing to mount/install it all is quite the chore. On a cloudy string of days you would need a generator and to keep and maintain that is a bit much, or you can vastly oversize the system. Lots of impracticality. I like the idea of at least doing some form of off grid while also on grid but I have a big yard
@@TRYtoHELPyou Agreed, but it surely depends on the location and more importantly, the consumption. I've spent a little over $30k. I'm producing well over a Mw a month and the system is clipping for at least 2 hours a day, because I'm not able to sell back. I'm still connected to the grid, but it's only called on for spikes and if I need to fully charge my car twice in quick succession. Which is a rare occurance.
If the industry is really struggling for customers, then it doesn't seem to make sense to rule out such a huge potential market, by saying that it's impractical, without qualifying it a bit more.
NEM 3.0 killed solar in CA.
Next opportunity to bring it back is Vehicle to Grid integration.
We are decades away from Vehicle-to-Grid Integration (VGI). The problem is in California, where there have been frequent "brownouts" and the governor has repeatedly asked people not to charge their Electric Vehicles (EVs) over the last several years, making VGI unfeasible. Not to mention, our grid is over 50 years old. We do not have the capacity to charge all the EVs that are on the road now without impacting the grid drastically and you are right since they killed Solar with Nem 3 the only solution is the crank up the natural gas power plants to fill the void. Never thought California would be a "drill baby drill" state but they are now.
Companies like RaVolt that provide pre engineered solutions, minimizing the jump from grid tied to battery storage projects are key to the next step in better solutions for these contractors. It keeps the system completely outside and does all the integration work for you.
Thanks for your honest assessment. As a homeowner with one existing PV install and looking to do another PV+battery install, I'm learning a lot about to watch out for.
Good info, Joe, thank you. Got net metering with ComEd in Illinois. We do currently get 100% net metering (I think, dont know if it changed in 2024), but it is on electric rate only, which is like 40% of total cost per kw, so you pay $0.16 per kw, but only credited $0.6 or so when you send it back to the grid. I guess it is fair, but I didnt think that through when buying my system and it wasnt spelled out that clearly anywhere I looked. Oh, well, still happy that my system works with no issues (but only after a contractor came out 3 times with experienced installers to fix what the initial install crew f-d up on the roof and with the inverters wiring). Good rated contractor, poorly trained installers, you never know.
Thanks, have always enjoyed your videos..... For many of the reasons you mentioned, I choose to use Tesla for my solar and battery system..... so far very happy with the process and it's performance.... Got into the NEM 2.0 with 1 week to spare.... I enjoy having more independence from the grid that the batteries allow even though I'm on 2.0.....
Arnold, I'd say not to go with tesla, I'd recommend complete Enphase system, they are simply the best. I have this system 7 yrs now, they were the best then and there new stuff is 10x better now. Watch some other vids from Joe, he also agrees. I know Joe, I've met him twice in person, he is a great guy, he lives just 15 minutes from me, I had Enphase before I even met him. In 7 yrs I've never had a problem with mine, I monitor it daily on my phone, the system is always software updated to my system,not the phone, via the internet, I love my system, it's 4.8kw(4800) watt, in summer it makes about 25 to 27000 watts per day, winter about 10 to 15000 per day, of course winter sun is shorter hrs per day, yesterday March 10 2024 I made 22000 watts, my system is 7yrs old, guaranteed by installer top to bottom for 25yrs. I say not bad
Very good synopsis! Being in California, I would've put the NEM 3.0 as #1, but I agree with the order you presented. We got lucky...we did solar in 2022, so we got locked into NEM 2.0 for 20 years. I would think by then batteries (or storage) should be much more acquirable!!!
knowledgeable battery installers are far and few between. I learned this the hard way.
If I ever decide to get solar I would definitely look you up. Nice to hear some honest views about what is going on with solar. Thank you my hillbilly friend.
The problem is lots of people do not have a moral compass and when they attempt something that is not their trade, they put profit first
I’ll give you an example. I had my Solar / Battery with essential and non essential installed by an electrical contractor and everything ended up fine. A few problems due to learning on the job, but because they were approved electrical contractors they had the desire to get it right. Some of the issues were caused by conflicting information from the Inverter provider. The Solar panels and all associated fixing were carried out by a roofing contractor on a tiled roof and the integrity of the tiles we maintained by grinding out a groove in the tiles to allow the fixing brackets through and the tile sat flush.
At the next job the electrical contractor installed they decided to do the roof work themselves and instead of grinding out a groove they cut slots to allow the tile to sit flush. Call me old fashioned, but because water finds the easiest route it may only be a matter of time before water creeps into the area below the roof.
I am a bit OCD, and I believe that trying to achieve excellence produces great, great produces good at best and good achieves that will do
Am I wrong
ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Council) is responsible for most of the state anti-solar bills along with many other state laws that negatively affect everyday people. We really need residential solar - wonder how we fix all this?
Another very important question you should have is when the contractor installs a solar panel system how long will they guarantee the holes they are drilling in your roof
Good question to ask. The installer should be guaranteeing at least 10 years of the roof penetrations.
I live in Florida and most of these contractors are only guarantee 5 years but my roof was only 3 years old when they installed my solar system. But you explained this very clearly in another video about why is the market crashing
I meant this video
Helps me understand why i lost my job. At least you can explain it to me!
Joe, there are some offerings in Texas in the Oncor distro system that offer a resemblance of net metering.
Currently TXU will sell and buy on a 1:1 but you do pay for the Oncor delivery when the panels are not producing enough power plus the connection fee. The credits are good for the end of the contract and can be applied for months when the panels are not generating enough electricity.
Chariot Energy is offering a similar program except that they do pay the Oncor and connection fee should your production exceed usage, the credits rollover and are capped to $1,000
Thank you for this video, it was very much needed.
I'd love to get a 4 to 1 exchange for solar. Last month I exported 2Mwh and used less than 500kwh. Here in AZ I have srp and the pay 2.8 cents a kwh no matter what. Net metering is not in their solar plans at all.
Nice job communicating clearly the main issues!
May also look at the Energy Companies basicly not providing a fair value for the excess solar production and solar installers making sure the project has storage as part of the install.
Debt will eventually be the downfall of America. Thankfully, I paid cash for my solar system as I do for almost every purchase and have done so for decades. Paying interest is pretty close to being a tax on being a poor financial manager. Sort of like lotteries are a tax on those who don’t understand math. An industry built on debt is often just a house of cards and I think solar is one of them. When you are built on government subsidies and debt, you don’t have a sustainable business model.
Very good commentary. The solar market was artificially inflated by cheap debt and government subsidies. Now the air is being let out of the balloon and the poorly managed companies are going broke.
@@SolarSurge Sunrun seems particularly dishonest.
@@SolarSurge Yes, almost every new industry goes through a shake out like this. The strong players will survive and the industry will right-size to the real market once the government stops artificially inflating the market with subsidies.
Cheap money is neither a blessing or curse in general. Those who manage complex finances well take advantage of low rates in a variety of ways, those who don’t manage complex finances well get taken advantage of by those very rates. If you are not good at managing complex finances, or if you are naturally risk adverse, then pay cash. Borrowing money entails more risk, but in fact has a higher upside. It’s called leverage. Warren Buffet doesn’t use leverage much (I think), but he doesn’t need to. Most wealthy and very wealthy people use leverage (borrowing) wisely and sparingly, but they use it, and to great effect. I’ve experienced success and failure with both approaches.
@@Bicklehoff794It would be great if everyone could achieve the optimum situation you describe, however the reality is different, and plenty of times the circumstances that cause people not to be able to achieve the best financial situations is beyond their control.
Great run down of the current state of the solar union!
Idaho PUC also approved a net billing with Idaho Power. Real time net billing.
I cannot say that, by the end of your discussion, I had much confidence in the solar industry. I do appreciate you honesty, but it seems as if finding a reputable installer is going to be a lot of work and you will probably only pay more once you find a good one. That probably will remove any financial advantage for going solar.
I'm simply taking my chances. My solar system is not visible from the street and I paid cash and installed it myself. I have batteries and I operate in self consumption mode with zero export to the grid. I did not pull a permit and I have not told my electric utility about my installation. My return on investment is about three years if I don't get caught! 😂😂😂 however I did inflate my total installed cost and took a 30% tax credit on a hypothetical $24,000 system as the IRS will not audit people that don't cause them any reason to. I hope I get away with it!
So many surplus used panels available in my area from bankrupt solar installation company's no longer there to honor service contracts. Home owners are pulling the systems when roof gets replaced. Suckers.
Thanks, Joe. Great summary of last year.
I tried to get information how to upgrade and add to my sunpower system last year. I bought the house not knowing anything about solar in 2019, thus got a lease on the solar. I cant even get an answer from their phone number, just set up a video conference weeks away. So I did, was there 5 min early, sat there for 20 min after the appointment and the sunpower rep wasnt there, so I left. 15 min after that the rep texted me he was there now and to join him. No thanks. McDonalds has better customer service. Also, my county refuses to grandfather any NEM because city council runs the electrical company. No more 1:1. And they are raising rates.
If solar would stop using 3 tier marketing with each step wanting $1/watt profit. ie Lead generator, telemarketer, business owner on top of the necessary $3/watt for materials, permits, installers and a reasonable profit. Solar is not ROI for the consumer when the payoff exceeds actual equipment lifecycle and Utilities have lobbied net metering to pay peanuts on buyback .
This is why I DIY cash installed 4 years ago for $0.87/watt, my fully complaint grid tied system is just a few months from being 100% ROI paid in full.
The main factor is price. If the total cost of system does not pay itself with 10 years of electric bills, it won’t be financially feasible.
Reputation is critical in the solar biz, they're a lot of sketchy contractors in the business. Terrible. Rife with bankruptcies.
As a Solar Home Advisor, I'm here to let you know that the company I work with doesn't charge any dealer fees. We believe in keeping things simple and fair for our customers. I just moved back to Upstate NY from living abroad in Melbourne, Australia. For the life of me, I'm trying to figure out why New York State is taking away incentives. The US industry is still in its infancy when talking about solar adoption at scale. ☀
Ok boomer
Congrats from Brazil. Very good informations about USA market. Tks
I love my solar and I think in most cases it is a no brainer
I absolutely love the idea of having a solar system on my house. However, I've never been able to understand the economics of the solar industry and how it makes any sense? It's wildly expensive and can't be rationalized economically. The average homeowner stays in their house for 7 years before moving/selling. I would need to see a break-even of about 3.5 years for it to make any sense! And according to Moore's law, the prices of the panels and accessories at this point should be at historic lows. The cost per kilowatt has followed Moore's law, but the industry gouging hasn't allowed those savings to be passed on to consumers. As this stands right now, the solar industry is a bit of a racket. And I have not seen any concrete information to dispute this. It's a shame, as here in the southwestern United States you couldn't find a better use case for solar!
I’m hoping, as we bought a house that came with 10 year old panels. And we pay for the next 10 years of the lease. (20 year lease) but I’m hoping to catch them in a breach of contact and get out of the solar lease. The rest of the lease is 28k by the time 10 years is over. Which, we might as well get rid of them and buy new.
But, Sunpowers contract states once a year they come and check on the equipment and clean them. As we approach the one year mark, I’m hoping to go 60 days over that point and then tell them they breached the contract and get their stuff. This is a real finger cross. But the previous owners said they never came in the years they lived here.
Today my problem is trying to find a solar ground mount system optimized for bifacial panels. Most ground mounts are too close to the ground or have the back side of the panels blocked by multiple structural components. The majority of ground mounts are designed for large scale projects and have large minimum purchase requirements, few are optimized for bifacial, even fewer offer seasonal adjustability. I'm struggling to find a supplier for three grid-tied small residential bifacial ground mounted projects: one 16 panel, an 18 panel, and a 20 panel. So far, my best options seem to be from Alibaba which is really disappointing.
Joe, I am dissappointed that the only two options on your site are to use a third party calculator that does not account for off-grid or really any other circumstances and the other is a $400 one-hour call with you. There literally is not even any other text or customer reviews or anything other than choosing one of these options. I really like your videos and expected more.
Our system is off grid. We harvest and use 12kWh every 24 hours w/ 23kWh of battery bank and 2.5KW of ground mounted, elevation adjustable panels. No grid tie, 4Kw for 1Kw "credit" non-sense. The system cost right around $8K, installed.
That's a great value if you know how to manage your consumption. Most US homes consume 30kWh per day with air conditioning, etc.
Thank you for the video!
Thank God screw these things
I want an off grid solution but the costs and risks are to high. Connecting to the grid is cheaper and i dont have any risk of it break down.
When the state of California won’t even protect solar customers investment it’s hopeless. There are powers at work no individual can compete with. If the state doesn’t get you the HOAs and insurance companies will. Strings seem to be easy to pull, that’s why I didn’t get solar, no confidence.
Thanks for the information. How do I schedule a time to speak to you?
Just visit the website www.solarsurge.net
I appreciate his honesty.
I'm glad I consulted a solar analyst, rather than a contractor or promoter, to determine whether rooftop solar was right for me. His conclusion: No, don't go solar. A solar array would save me $5 from my monthly electric utility bill or cost me $5 per month. At first blush solar seemed to be a natural. I'm an environmentalist (ever since the first Earth Day in 1970). The solar installation would face 100% south, with no obstructions such as trees or buildings. Pennsylvania has plenty of incentives for solar energy. However, I don't consume enough electricity to make solar worthwhile. And my existing asphalt shingles are more than halfway through their life expectancy. If I took advantage of a solar installation but my asphalt shingles began leaking 8 years from now, I would have to remove the solar array (at my expense), re-shingle the roof (at my expense) and restore the solar panels (at my expense). Solar systems may seem like "green" energy, but when you have no green to fork out, it's better to stay with the tried-and-true method: the electric grid. My solar analyst agreed. I do appreciate his honesty.
Where did you see that Ohio's net metering rules are changing? I can't find anything on the web stating that. The last change was 2017.