Setting Up A Dust Cyclone
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- Опубліковано 20 лип 2019
- Hello and welcome to Badger Workshop. I get sick of emptying bags and cleaning filters so decided to set up a cyclone separator.
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96% efficiency is a great success by any means!!! Which puzzles me, as I have the same cyclone and same blue barrel but the results are nowhere near... But I've only tested this with a cheap Rutlands shop vac, which suggests that I should upgrade to something more powerful. Thank you very much for sharing!!!
I was happy with the result in the end. I don't know if the power of the vac affects it. Maybe someone else knows more
@@Badgerworkshop thank you Matt! Which vac did you use? Your Axminster one or the cheap shop vac that you reviewed last year?
It was a the Axminster. I will get around to doing a review of it
I have the same blue container and cyclone but use a Fox F50wet/dry hoover/extractor thing, and everything goes to the blue bucket. I used postage scale so should be accurate.
@@Badgerworkshop I’m trying to set it up, but can’t get the vacuum hose to connect(noobie DIYer!). Where did you get the hose from?
Well done, I myself was going to buy a square bucket and your video has just saved me loads of money, Thank you
So glad I watched this, considering setting up a cyclone, definitely will be now. I think the biggest factor though is how good each tool is at actually ensuring the dust gets to the outlet/hose and doesn't just drop to the floor, or get send around the workshop. Your second results is amazing though, I didn't expect that even from top end systems.
A timely video, I've just got all the same components together to make exactly the same setup. Cheers Matt.
Thank you, I wondered if the length of the hose made a difference, but you seem to have sorted the problem. Well done!
Didn't expect the shape to have affected the result so dramatically.
Glad you cottoned on to the issue, mate. 👍
Good going. 👌
Thanks Bill
Really helpful Matt, thanks. I'll be trying the same thing in a month or so and this saved me from a wrong turn.
Thanks Eddy. You won't regret doing it
I'm really pleased I watched this video. I've been planning to make a cyclone separator, but I would've used a rectangular crate - not now though! It's good to learn from the mistakes of others 😉
I think if you can find a tub with a good seal it will work but the barrel works great
That was one of the best things I done in my workshop👍 the cyclone system is awsome.
I now just need to make a stand like yours
@@Badgerworkshop yes mate with all the most used bits, saves so much time and everything has it's place .
Great video I just made one of these and it works great.
Thank you am just going to set up the same system so the vid was well received.
Thanks for the video, I was looking into purchasing a dust deputy cyclone but could not find one in the UK that didn't have a hugely over inflated price, saw the same cyclone on Amazon but wasn't sure if it would be a cheap knock off that fails to perform. Clearly not! Thanks for this very helpful video! 👍
This has given me the shove I needed to do the same thing. Items purchased! Cheers
Thanks Matthew
For me this was very interesting because I want to build something simular for my shop in a few weeks! It was great to see your video
Thank you. Hope yours works first time
Same here Christofix 😃
That is one hell of a return from 50grm . Well done Matt and keep the videos coming 👍
Yes I was impressed by it
Good video and test. I suspected that it would fail due to the shape of the 1st container but when you mentioned other folks had good luck with square ones I was surprised. I suppose that that it's all in the seal of the container lid. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Jeff
Was good to see the one that didn't work and also great to see how much the barrel collected.
Yes ended up working even better than I thought
Hi Matt, I think it must have been the seal. The container I used had a rubber seal all the way around, it was pretty expensive though (£30). Funnily enough I’ve just bought one of the blue barrels for my new workshop though as I managed to break the lid of my old one during the move!
I liked the idea of the container but I am happy I have the barrel now.
Success - and a good expt! Tks.
That was a cool analysis . Great job !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you very much
Hi there, i've just bought the same blue deposit for the same reason you explained: the sealing. This week i'll try to do the same montage, hope it works well like yours do.
This is very helpful, I’ve just got a cyclone thing I and I was going to use a rectangular tub like Rag ‘n’ Bone Brown does, but this has changed my mind. Time to shop for a round tub I reckon. Cheers Matt.
People in the comments are saying some tubs work, just have to have a good seal
Good job Matt 👍🏻
Thanks Billy
Great video. Made me do some research into cyclones. If your box was leaking air, that air would travel up into the cyclone, likely drawing the dust up into the vac. The leak would also reduce the velocity of the air entering the cyclone via the hose. This would mean the centifugal forces with the cyclone, that force that separates the dust from the air, is also reduced - mean less to no separation.
Basically the dust particles should be thrown to the outside of the air stream by centrifugal force leaving clean air on the inside of the airstream. The leaky box reduces the speed of the centrifuge and the amount of separation. The updraft of also prevents dust from falling out the bottom of the cyclone.
Would be interesting to see the experiment repeated with a sealed box.
I knew exactly where this video was going when it started....😀. I’m on my second square box extractor. I got a box like yours from Morrison’s supermarket. If you look in the lid there are fins for strength, but the seal is rubbish. I re watched Keith Brown’s video and his box has a seal. I bought a new box and it’s great now.
Note - in hindsight I probably could have taped the original lid on with parcel tape to create a seal.
It was a good leaning experience and I now think the barrel shape will work better in the space I have
So happy to have spotted/watched this, I have just bought almost the same cyclone and attached it to a plastic bin (not square, but also not very air tight) and wasn't impressed with the poor collection. Ordered the blue bucket and hope that I get similar results as you did; catch more dust and relegate the other plastic bin, to being used as a........ well, a bin 😂👍
The round blue bin with a screw on lid and or a over centre clip seal must have a soft " O " ring intheb lip of the lid .. you can make your own sealing ring using film wrap on the barrel rim and soft set silicone in just the recess then screw the lid on & let it cure ( don't put it on the threads of the barrel or the lid 🙄
if you don't have a jigsaw i used my dividers which i used to score the diameter and after about 5 mins of scoring i was through. nice and neat. worked for me with HD-PE.
The dust receptacle need to be air tight so all the suction is transferred to the hose. Good video showing problem and solution.
thank you
I have just made up a similar unit. To be honest the biggest problem that i have had is the barrel collapsing under vacuum. I made up a support cross to go roughly half way down the barrel to support it. It seems ok so far. I collects the dust ok, and provides a reasonable vacuum at the end of the hose.
It’s all about the seals...not the ones at the zoo but the ones around the lids! If they are not 100% sealed it will not work very well if at all which is why the box is no good. Thanks for the video it should help others make the same mistake though.
I've been through the exact same process as you. Copied Keith Brown's approach with a box I found down at my local DIY shed, slapped on the cyclone - poor dust collection.
Realised that the box wasn't properly air-tight and enough air was entering to turn-off the cyclone effect. Then bought the air tight box Keith used and it was way way better. The cyclone worked well but the suction caused the square box to buckle. I know Keith put supports in the box but in the end I went the blue barrel route and it's much better all round.
The only thing I don't like is you can't see through it
I know when it's full as I can see the dust start to fill the clear bag on the dust collector.
I've got a cyclone like this also. I set it up quickly but I think I had problems with sealing and losing to much suction. I found a barrel like the one you used so I hope that will improve it when I get it setup.
It defiantly worked much better for me
Many thanks for putting up the video I did wonder about the round versus bin . I've seen them mounted on a board slightly to one side rather than fully central and placed over a standard round dust bin after putting draught excluder foam around the lip to get a good air seal .
May I add that the filter on the cleaner should also be cleaned at least once a week to free it of fine clogging dust thus allowing you to develop a better vacuum suction pressure .
PS Any slightly damp fine dust will quickly clog the filter on the cleaner
The best tooo in my shop. And very cheap!
Cheers Matt, that was very informative, thanks for taking one for the team. [That's us; poor suckers - see what I did there? lol]
I did Keith very funny
I made one of these a few years ago using a bucket that you would make home brew in which sealed really well.I had to put a circular ring inside the bucket to stop it collapsing as the suction was so good. It worked really well for sawdust but I use a larger extractor for wood chips from my planer, which needed a bigger bore pipe. I tried it for wood chips but it sucked so well that the smaller bore pipe just clogged up.
I have a dust bin for chips
Gary, I saw on the internet that if you put the bucket inside another bucket, it will never collapse
Pretty sure it would have been a seal issue with the lid in your first attempt Matt. Would have been a bugger to fix I think. Not only a rubber/silicone seal but also extra catches on the sides. The barrel is a much simpler and effective fix. Well done chap. This'll be a useful vid for many I imagine.
Thank you. Yes I was not going to spend money trying to make the tub work. The barrel was a quick fix
Very interesting video. Thanks for sharing. I have been using an old vacuum cleaner + a drum (originally meant for collecting cooled down ash from a wood stove) connected to it, for more than two years.. Till some weeks ago it worked quite OK (I've never done any input/output test though) but quite suddenly it became much worse.
Great lack of suction for one reason or another. I'll have to take a look at the vacuum cleaner. End of life? Full of sawdust? Technique is nice, as long as it does what you want it to do.......
Yes could be a few things. I hope you get it working again.
I might get one of these
Im pleased with it
Hi Matt,
I have the same cyclone set, I built a few months ago, though it works great the only thing I would warn you about, is if the end of the hose into the cyclone is covered up or gets covered, blocked it will suck the air out of the drum which will collapse in on itself. A pain to try and get back in to shape. So would advice building a frame inside to support the drum. This is what I will be doing I hope this coming week.
Thanks Ed. I am also doing this next week
Have you thought about trying the Axminster Craft AC118CI cyclone interceptor, I appreciate it does require a 1.5hp extractor. Great video and thanks for your honesty when your first cyclone failed 👍👍
It'll work just fine with the rectangular container if the lid seal is good enough,. All the separation physics is in the cyclone. However, there is a large surface area of join between the lid and the box and air leaks at this interface will prevent sufficient pressure reduction inside the container, so its 'suction power' becomes poor :( Needs a better seal on that lid...
I use the same setup (with blue barrel), i don't use the metal clamp - doesn't appear to need it. The issue i had was the sides of the barrel sucked in, to overcome this i just placed that metal locking ring in the barrel.
Been using mine for a year or more without issue, mainly on a thicknesser.
I have a plan to stop it collapsing. Video about it next week
Just watched this and loved it, where did you get the connecting hoses from for the final build with the drum?
Cheers for showing us that Mat as I'm looking at doing the same set up for my new workshop, I don't think Henry is going to cut it anymore lol however I'll keep him around for general cleaning 😁
I had a Henry now I have the bigger version
@@Badgerworkshop I saw the Axminster do you recommend it. I did buy a similar one that came on with the saw but unfortunately got robbed on Facebook market place as it made the noise but no suction 😞😠
The Axminster is expensive but quiet. I am going to do a review of it
@@Badgerworkshop cool looking forward to it.
I've got most of the bits to do this myself. As a few others have commented, the seal on the tub must be airtight for it to work properly.
Yes I understand that
Got there in the finish Matt, I believe Keith Browns container was air tight !!!!
Thanks
Hi Matt, I suspect it's nothing to do with the shape of the collection vessel, because as you said, the cyclonic separation should already have taken place. My guess is the sealing of the lid. Clearly the barrel is way better. It would have been interesting to see the results with the B&Q lid sealed up.
Yes I think it was the seal
I used one of those blue barrels and it worked great, at first. But when the hose got blocked, the barrel would implode. Eventually it got to the point when brute force and ignorance couldn't pop it back into shape.
I read about a double bucket system to prevent the pressure collapsing the container. My vac was just a cheapie from Screwfix, so not massively powerful, but it turned out that beer was the answer.
Ok, maybe it was the kebab after the beer. My local kebab shop were using large catering mayonnaise containers to store the salad ingredients. I asked if they had any spares and they happily gave me a few for free (and lids)
It turned out that puting one inside the other stopped the container from collapsing, and by sheer luck, the barrel lid fitted perfectly so I didn't need to mess about with moving the cyclone unit.
Dont know if its been said but small to large diameter will decrease the sucktion or pressure, from large to small diameter will increase the sucktion or pressure. Think about a finger over a water hose. its the same principal. If any one has any issues wuth suckion power look at how the piping on 'good' set ups, larger pipe from extractor to increasingly smaller diameter pipes as it branches out to individual tools
I used the blue bin with my Trend 35A vac, it sucked the life out of it and the blue bin collapsed in on it's self.
Now I use the Onieda, solid as a rock
Yes that happened to me. I have an update about it next week
Recommend a pressure release valve (about £8 from Amazon) … I have a very similar set up with a blue barrel … but it collapsed after an extended sanding session (had been working fine without the valve for about 3 months) … so just beware!
When I was researching I didn’t come across any videos that mentioned using a valve … odd that I did when I went looking for how to resolve the problem.
Would also like to add make sure there are no sticks or shaving restricting the cutting machine waste outlet .. I often find my bench saw & router table have a handful of such rubbish affecting sawdust removal
Thank You, I bought one of those cyclone separators and had seen one of those square boxes but at the time I did not have room in my car, after watching your video I went to you tools page and ordered a barrel the same as yours, so all I have to do now is wait for the barrel to arrive and then make my system. As I ordered it through your link I hope you got a small amount back from eBay, cheers.
Thank you very much John
Where did you get the large cyclone fittings from for the 50mm ends on your hoses.
I never get anything in my shop vac bag (except when I forget to empty the bucket) with my cheap eBay cyclone, but I did have to reinforce the cheaper round plastic lidded 25 litre bucket with a plywood ring to stop it collapsing!
Thats my next job
I have exactly the same set up but my barrel kept collapsing to fix that just cut a hole the width of the barrel in any board ply, obs or mdf then just put it on like a belt.
To collapse one side needs to expand this fixed the problem instantly
Good fix. I will be trying something different next week
I use a Triton Dust Collection Bucket, works well.. the only downside is having to clean the filter every so offen...had the same hover bag for a year now...
Great. Think this should save about £20 a year on bags
This is the setup I have other than I use an old vacuum cleaner for the suction. It sucks ok but the pressure relief valve on the vacuum lifts very easily as if the whole setup is increasing the resistance to flow too much for the vacuum cleaner. Need to upgrade to an actual shop vac.
Great video!! May I ask where you got the adapters from to join the pipe work to the cyclone?
The henry hover hoses just push in
If it was the seal on the box, you could have run a little bead is silicone along the top of the rim and let it dry to make an 'o-ring' of sorts.
Either way, it looks far more impressive with the blue barrel!
Thank you
I am about to do an experiment with a cyclone but going to try the same set up connected to my pond to try to remove visible sediment. It’s will be powered by the pump to the inlet. Any thoughts? In my naive way I can’t see why it should not work in theory.
I've got an old oblong plastic storage box that I made a ply wood lid for that is sealed with p profile draught excluder. With the vac running I can lift the storage box by the cyclone with the pressure of the vacuum holding the lid on. The only time I've had problems with stuff not going into the box properly is when the bottom of the cyclone has clogged with planer shavings. I started with an old paint tin for my first prototype, but went to the box to save time between empties. The shape didn't seem to make any difference to me.
Seems a good seal is the most important thing
@@Badgerworkshop Yup, the slightest leak will see air drawn up through the bottom of the cyclone and ruin it's effectiveness.
I use the blue drum too, suprised the square box didn't work. If you can think of an indicator to show the blue bin is full I'd be grateful.
The cyclone I have is clear so I will see if it gets that high
I bought the cyclone and used a bucket that was used for joint compound. BTW I hate how hard it is to open the lid. I have a Rigid 12 gallon vac. I was using my miter saw, which I think throws sawdust everywhere but I don't think it collected as much sawdust as I thought it would. Maybe my bucket? Where did you get your bucket from? I think I should try another kind of bucket. Thanks for sharing.
I got the barrel from Amazon and it seems to work well
Hi "Badger", I'm trying to fit out a small workshop like yours and I've brought the blue barrel and cyclone that you've shown in this video but no hose as yet, could you please tell me where you brought the hose you are using. I'm following your videos with great interest and am using many of your Ideas. keep up the good work.
Its a Henry hose that I got from Amazon
www.amazon.co.uk/shop/badgerworkshop?listId=3T6TMED595A7E
Great Idea..... Musy Have. Can I ask where you got the flexi piping from?
link under the video
Do you chuck the dust or use it for food filler ?
ah done the same you need a sealed box container with a inner seal inside the lid they are a lot more money and they have six levers to seal the main box to lid
Well that was pretty conclusive! I wonder what the problem with the square box was?
I think the seal was not good enough
Hi, the seal on your collection container needs to be excellent (air tight really!) as any leakage results in disruption of the cyclonic air flow within the funnel. Air leakage causes air to head in varying directions and ultimately a small amount down into the tub (and ultimately out). This you would think would pull dust down with it but actually disrupts the uniform flow of the air, creating turbulent flow which keeps the dust entrained and the vast majority will go with the majority of the air - ie to the vacuum.
Where did you get your hoses from?
Where did you get the locking dresser.
Thanks for this - good video. Can I ask where you got the blue barrel from? Cheers
There is a link under the video to my amazon page
There is plenty barrels available on shpock.
@@Badgerworkshop Cheers - found it.
@@robertmistal8151 Thanks - I'll check that out.
ive tried a similar setup but it is sucking the drum in, almost like it is too air tight. Any suggestions?
where can I purchase one those blue barrels
In my experience the quality of the seal on the lid is what matters
Thanks
Have you tried putting a plastic bag in the barrel before closing it? Just wondering if it will work or if the bag is getting sucked flat.
If it works, it would be easy to have a clean barrel and less dust when emptying.
I think it would just get sucked up
Could you please put up a link for all components to the cyclone set up. Thanks.
It’s under the video
I've just bought a cyclone but the inlet/outlet is 50mm. Most UK vac hoses are 35-40mm and it's hard getting adaptors. I noticed your hose diameter is much bigger and had connections that fit snug. Please advise how I can get the same finish?
The Axminster extractor has a larger hose.
Most certainly an air leak issue, that square bin isn't close to being air tight.
I just switched from a blin bin drum to a square ply box and I'm getting the same suction.
Is it not working because the b&q tub isn't air tight?
Before embarking on any project, it is best to do some research and choose your components carefully, that will minimise the time and effort plus cost that can be wasted for no reward. The cyclone you chose, it would have been better to purchase one with a flange for more surface area to seal it to its base and make it more stable in use. Two buckets of the same type prevents implosions, this is why Oneida supply two buckets they learned from their experience. I have owned a dust deputy for over 7 years without any problems. It’s not worth trying to reinvent the wheel when it’s already been done.
Hi Matt, do these work better than the vacuum on the own or is it to save money on bags and filters
It does not increase suction but does save on bags and filters
Hi Matt can you tell me where I can buy the barrel? Thanks.
Under the video is a link to my amazon page
Hi Matt
How does the cyclone and pipe attach to the vac ?
I used the hose that came with the vac
Hi Matt, do you lose much suction having the cyclone set up?
You do loose a bit but not a noticeable amount
Matt where did you get the pipes or are those the ones from your Axminster?
One came with the vac, the other I got from amazon
www.amazon.co.uk/shop/badgerworkshop?listId=3T6TMED595A7E
I have the same cyclon but mine is whistle so much, why?
Cheers Matt, what a difference, where did you get the blue barrel ?
Thank you. There is a link under the video to my amazon page
Do you have an updated link to your Amazon page (US)?
what is called the white thing on top?
Hi Matt I've a question about your shepherds hut could you tell me what thickness osp you used beneath the floor and the walls as trying to price up for something similar
The floor 12mm, side walls 12mm, end walls 18mm
@@Badgerworkshop thanks Matt really enjoy your channel
For sure the square tub is leaking vacuum
Hello. Apologies for asking this since I can see you've answered the hose question a few times. But in terms of the hose between the vac and the cyclone - you said you used the Henry one. I have a similar hose left over from an old shop vac but for the end I'd connect to the cyclone the connector is far too small - and in the amazon pic that's what the Henry hose looks like too. Did you do anything to adapt it, or is the pic misleading?
On mine the nozzle on the end of the Henry hose fits perfectly into the cyclone
@@Badgerworkshop Hmm ok. Might order that exact hose and hope for the best! Thanks! (already ordered the drum and cyclone through your links so hopefully you'll get a little £ from it :))
I did the exact same thing : used that same square box type, and have the exact same result: pathetic. I'm gonna buy myself such a round barrel, how much liters is this one ?
My god you sound like Hugh Grant 😀😀
so whats your conclusion why the blue drum worked better than the clear one? Shape? Lid seal? or some supernatural law that doesnt let magic happen when humans are watching?
Where was the barrel from
Amazon
😃👍🏻👊🏻
Collection container needs to be air tight so ita not taking away from the suction of the vac.
The really useful boxes are not air tight