The "I forgive you" has a lot of parellels to the "I forgive you scene in Season 1. - Aziraphel wanting to fix things within the system. - Crowley wanting to leave together. - Aziraphel not grasping/accepting the facts crowley is presenting. - Crowley calling him stupid for this.
As a demon, Crowley is meant to be "unforgivable". For Aziraphale to say "I forgive you" is like saying "I love you", or saying "I see you beyond how you see yourself".
@januarykristibrionesmigalb5896 I would argue that Crowley has never really identified as a demon. I think k for him his issue with forgiveness is that he doesn't feel it is needed. He doesn't want it. Because he views heaven's actions to be as evil, if not more so, than the actions of hell. At the very least hypocritical.
@@GingerPeacenik I was just replying to the question in the video. And sure, although that is not so closely defined in the show, leaving a lot of space open for interpretation and various subtexts, as well as various universal themes, a sign of very good writing. Just look at the various interpretations of a single line in the replies here. Now they will probably need to define it closer in the coming season and I am quite interested and intrigued in how that will be handled.
I dont think aziraphales reaction had anything to do with them being same sex. I think he just can't get over the "I'm an angel, you are a demon. We are on opposite sides" mentality. Thats why he wants to change Crowley back into an angel so bad.
i think aziraphale's "i forgive you" was him trying to not show crowley his true feelings. he just can't see everything clearly given that metatron just offered him something so big and crowley being honest to himself was also a big thing to deal with for aziraphale. im not mad at azirapahale but im so sad for crowley.
Also personally I feel that Aziraphale’s ‘I forgive you’ isn’t something about internalised homophobia or seeing gay love as sinful, it was more seeing Crowley as a demon who gave into lustful feelings or something. He saw love between demon and an angel as sinful, not gay love as such. I dunno, that’s how I saw it. Edit: saw another comment that put it better: Aziraphale is forgiving Crowley for desperately trying to weaponise their emotions to make Aziraphale stay
I dont think he saw love between an angel and a demon as sinful, at least not anymore, since he seemed moved by beelzebub and gabriel's love and even seemed to relate. I don't think its homophobia either but there is smth said about how it looks like to a viewer. For a gay person who might've fallen for someone religious it's really painful. I agree with the lust I also see it as done without consent in a very rough way but the face aziraphale did when he said it hurt me more than the phrase itself i think.
As a demon, Crowley is meant to be "unforgivable". For Aziraphale to say "I forgive you" is like saying "I love you", or saying "I see you beyond how you see yourself".
I can't be mad at Aziraphale. He fell for an abuser's trap. "Baby come back it'll be different this time I need you." He was so desperate for any level of approval from Heaven he was an easy mark. We know it won't end up like he wants it to, but he's back down the rabbit hole. I also think he wouldn't have said yes, ultimately, if Crowley wouldn't be allowed back. In his own way, I think he did this to keep Crowley safe from what he now knows is coming. I *am* slightly miffed at Crowley. And this is very influenced by my own asexuality. But that kiss was not what their love deserved. That kiss was born of frustration, desperation, and an aggressive need to get a point across. And Aziraphale was not given the opportunity to refuse it. Kudos to Michael's acting here because i had a visceral reaction. Aziraphale doesn't react favorably; he's not overwhelmed by the love or romance of the moment. He's in shock. He's frightened. He's flailing. Even when he does touch Crowley it's not an embrace, he wants to be let go. The look on his face after is what broke me. Betrayal, hurt, and the tiniest hint of disgust. I don't think that disgust is "ew demon". I think that disgust is "my friend that i trust with my life just aggressively forced me into something I am not ready for." And my heart breaks for them because of it. Aziraphale's "I forgive you" has some anger behind it, he *meant* that one to hurt. Because he was trying, at that point, to get space between them. I feel for Crowley, but I also feel for Aziraphale. The serpent misstepped here, badly.
This is a great perspective! A lot of us ( well I suppose most of us) saw things only from Crowley's point of view maybe because it was honest to reality & because Aziraphale- though oblivious himself- was very obviously making the wrong choice. That said, you're right, this interaction did not seem like something he was ready for, how much ever he clearly seemed to love Crowley. So yes, there's some fault yo be placed on Crowley for kissing him too. But, I would say, it didn't seem like he forgave him to hurt him / as an insult, but rather because he was hurt possibly on two counts 1- He refused to come to heaven and be an angel with him & 2- For the (unfortunately unpleasant &) unexpected kiss
I agree about the meta-level of the ‘I forgive you’ line feeling like it’s come from a place of religious oppression/repression of queer identity/ guilt. I feel like there’s a very specific reading of Crowley and Aziraphale where each responds differently to their own queerness from within an oppressive religious system - Angel Crowley can’t see what’s wrong with it (asking a few questions) and gets kicked out of the community (falls) for being true to himself. Aziraphale is more cautious from the start and more unconsciously aware of what he has to do to fit within the system. And so stays repressed for longer. But I thought within the show, the ‘I forgive you’ speaks most to Aziraphale’s failure to truly understand Crowley. He still believes in his heart of hearts that heaven is the good side, and the problems he’s encountered with heaven in both seasons are down to a few bad apples rather than the system itself. From within that worldview, he just can’t really conceive of the fact that Crowley wouldn’t want to recover his angelic nature. He’s always sneakily thought Crowley was actually good, rather than seeing how they both are both good and evil, shades of grey etc - that they both were choosing to step away from their respective systems. So the ‘i forgive you’ was about trying to give Crowley what Az thinks he needs - forgiveness - instead of listening to what Crowley is actually saying he needs. And similarly, Crowley is failing to listen to what Aziraphale say too - Az actually flat out says he needs Crowley. He is desperate for Crowley to come with him. But Crowley can’t hear that because he can only hear the heaven part. I can even understand why Aziraphale says the ‘nothing lasts forever’ line about the bookshop - he’s still trying to convince Crowley to come to heaven, he’s trying to point out that even Crowleys damnation won’t last forever, that as beautiful as their idyl on earth has been it can’t last forever because they have to get back to their real lives as angels. But Crowley hears that THEY can’t last forever, and sees (much more clearly than Aziraphale) that their lives on earth ARE their real lives, and the version of Heaven that exists in Aziraphale’s head doesn’t exist and has never existed. As Nina and Maggie say, they never properly communicate and that’s their problem!
ahhhh i love a good weaponized "i forgive you" uttered at the most cutting moment possible. that and telling crowley he's welcome to eff off if he doesn't do what aziraphale wants are like, aziraphale's signature moves
Wait I really love your thoughts on it, but I also had a thought: The "I forgive you" didn't mean him talking about Crowley acting gay, did it? He literally tried to get Maggie and Nina together, no way he is judgemental, right? Also the line that broke me even more was "Nothing lasts forever", which just sounds like the start of his villain arc ahhh I really feel like Metatron put something into his coffee also I really hate Shax
I meant it more on a meta level. I think literally speaking he's saying he forgives Crowley for hurting him in that moment. But on a more meta level it's hard to see past an angel telling a demon that there's something to forgive in a gay kiss.
@@Kritigri Oh yeah that's a really interesting take on it Also I have more thoughts: Crowley has literally committed every one of the 7 deadly sins in the name of love (if you count drinking as gluttony) during the show, but Aziraphale only really was tempted by him to indulge in gluttony
I feel like it more so means that Aziraphale forgives Crowley for not coming with him. As in “Fine, if you don’t want to come to heaven with me then that’s okay, you can always join me later on. I won’t hold a grudge,” sorta thing?
I think he said "I forgive you" partly because if you look at his face he seemed overwhelmed and frightened by the kiss, especially the rough way Crowley man-handled him and kind of forced him into it by keeping hold of his clothes. When he was completely unprepared for it and maybe didn't want it.
Great analysis!! Really enjoyed it. I assumed that the "I forgive you" was not sexuality-related, but because Aziraphale is still so "demonphobic" (for lack of a better term). He's always thought that the angels are the good guys, even if Heaven is pretty corrupt. He thinks they can be happy and together only if they're both angels. Like you, I'm also definitely looking forward to Crowley being a "disaster queer/gay" in S3.
As a demon, Crowley is meant to be "unforgivable". For Aziraphale to say "I forgive you" is like saying "I love you", or saying "I see you beyond how you see yourself".
I should clarify when I said "you probably do" about having "any kind of crossover with the queer world", I just meant that most people probably know someone who is gay x)
Well, as Crowley says himself, he's not a "lad", male, or anything else. As you may remember from the book, angels and demons in Gaiman world have no gender at all. They may wear male or (in Crowley's case on occasion) female "corporations", they can choose to give themselves either configuration of genitalia with "an effort", they may conform with their presumed pronouns in the human world, but as Neil has stated; they are neither male nor human, so technically, it's not a "gay romance".
I had a lot of the same thoughts and opinions you did. Especially about that "I forgive you" , it felt like it had multiple meanings but my first thought was that Aziraphale had felt some self-loathing about his feelings towards Crowley all this time
about Shax's 'evil voice'. Shax was played by Miranda Richardson & she was in Merlin 1998 as Queen Mab. Same voice/performance. She's totally doing the same low pitched evil whisper. & i love it
I hate Azi for making Crowley feel like he's worth less as long he's staying as a demon. The 'I forgive you' line came out like he was disgusted to be kissed by a demon. He was only ready to accept Crowley's love if he turned 'good' again (which is obviously nonsense 'cause he's already kind and good). He loves Crowley but it is conditional and I hate him for that.
Wow, that's not how I read that moment at all. My interpretation was that he was forgiving Crowley for the whole situation in general (perceived breaking of his trust by not returning with him to Heaven) which is still myopic and misguided on his part, but not about the kiss. I don't think it's that he wants Crowley 'good' again necessarily, he's just scared to move on from Heaven himself. He's still in a toxic relationship with the idea of God and being pure and Holy, but he also wants Crowley...he's scared and he's not ready yet to make the hard choice. The seeds of doubt about his ability to really move on from Heaven were being foreshadowed the whole season. I really don't think it was a good time for a kiss either, what with Aziraphale being so obviously upset. I'm not surprised at all that he reacted that way. I'm not blaming Crowley for it either, it was definitely a heat-of-the-moment, last-ditch effort to get him to stay. It was no one's fault, but it was messy and very human moment for them. In that way, it was a beautiful and heartbreaking ending to the season - two beings love each other more than anything in Creation, but can't bring themselves to connect at the right times.
One of the takes I’ve liked on Aziraphale’s reaction discusses the fact that Crowley’s kiss was an act of desperate temptation to get Az to stay, and Az took it as such. Not saying that it wasn’t a truly heartfelt expression of love on Crowley’s end, just that Az literally had no time to process it, and fell back into old responses and coping mechanisms. I think the biggest “flaw” with Aziraphale isn’t that he’s heartless. Far from it. His biggest failing is that he expects that Crowley will always keep coming back (and in his defense that has always been the case) so he takes it for granted. I think it all just happened too fast, and as the show itself pointed out, these two have no idea how to talk to each other. 6k+ years of no talking and *this* was the first attempt at it? Was bound to crash and burn.
Maybe he was putting that on for the Metatron. Maybe he was already regretting getting into the lift, and he was trying to cover his feelings, to pretend to him (Metatron) that he was happy with his decision? I definitely think the Metatron put something in his coffee to influence his decision.😢
@@clarestubbs9303you're probably right on some but we can definitely tell it's a fake as fuck smile he has there. I can just tell he's going to be extremely miserable this next season without crowley there to be with him for the first time in their entire lives.
If you seriously think Aziraphale said "I forgive you" because of anything to do with "same-sex relationships", you missed the entire point of the show. Don't be so shallow.
mean they are a demon and angel and homophobia is a mortal invention so I don't think they immortal beings would be so concerned about sexually in general. But I guess they could possibly be an allegory made about being an angel and demon and choosing your own path.
i don’t think aziraphale meant the “i forgive you” line from a sense of “gays kissing is bad.” the demons AND angels in this show are clearly fruity as hell and have made it clear that they show no disdain for queer people and their affection for each other. therefore, aziraphale wouldn’t feel that way either. he loves crowley fully. plus, the characters are omnipotent type beings. there are even lines eluding to them being non-binary or genderfluid. i don’t think it should be seen as a “gay kiss,” but rather just a kiss that has been meaning to happen for centuries. the “i forgive you” is more to do with crowley not wanting to go with him, and not the kiss itself.
'I forgive you' is irrelevant to homophobia. If you watch the rest of it, Aziraphale falls back on 'I forgive you' when he doesn't know how to communicate his feelings and he's closing off to Crowley. It's his version of Crowley's sunglasses.
"God this show must make religious people really fucking angry." From a Catholic, yes, it makes some people angry. It however does not make me angry. It makes me sad, because the bible I grew up with has somehow turned into something that will continue to make me cry??? I have no idea why. My atheist dad thinks me being so upset is very funny. I love Good Omens so much, and I will continue to defend it against religious people who think it blasphemous.
Aziraphale said that not because he's homophobic, but because Crowley is a demon. That's like one of his main characteristics that he blindly believes in heaven and always thinks of hell as "the other side". That's why he was so happy for the possibility for Crowley to become an angel again so they would be together in heaven
Was anyone else confused at first when actors who were in season 1 played different characters in season 2 with no explanation (i.e. Shax/ Madam Tracy & Nina/ Sister Mary Loquacious)? Was this explained in the book? I haven’t read it yet.
This was a fantastic season. If you're wondering why there was such little going on and not many characters of people because this is all film during the Covid craziness.
3k views! Thanks for making this my most popular video, everyone. I'm glad you all seem to have enjoyed it. The more I consider it, the less convinced I am on my initial closeted religious homophobe Aziraphale (albeit on a meta level) take. You lot have convinced me that the rejection was more based on their relationship than anything else. "You go too fast for me, Crowley." I still don't believe in theories regarding Aziraphale being literally brainwashed by the Metatron in any way, simply because it'd make for a less interesting story. What do we want, Aziraphale doing what he did because events collated in a way which transformed him into the worst version of himself, or he's supes evil now cause Metatron spiked his coffee and it's all a tragic misunderstanding?I know what I'd write.
The fact that you can't remember main characters' names shortly after watching the show (by your own admission) and that you couldn't bother looking up their names but you still somehow feel people should listen to you opine for 8 minutes says a lot about your arrogance and laziness.
@@letolethe3344 That could be. It was a complicated kiss. And Crowley had been saying that one fabulous kiss could fix everything, so there was desperation in it too.
the more I see these views on good omens ending, the angrier I get about azi. he doesn't deserve Crowley. season 3 has some big answers to find. like how Crowley could forgive azi.
Totally agree with your Gaiman comment. How could he do that to all the Good Omen fans? He wrote Aziraphale into a selfish, narcissistic jerk. What in the heck was he forgiving Crowley for?
To clarify, I was being playful with my "Fuck you, Neil Gaiman!" comment. I think Aziraphale has always been capable of being this worst version of himself and the Metatron's offer combined with his own deeply buried emotions being thrust unexpectedly up to the surface probably brought this about. I think season 3 will be about redeeming him and we're supposed to be angry at him.
SO HOT TAKE!!! I ACTUALLY LIKE WHAT HAPPENED. We get to see how heaven's hold on Aziraphale is so toxic. Like Nina, he's in an abusive relationship. Now he gets to learn, to grow, and to break out on his own. Crowley can't do that for him. And if he wants Crowley he can't let anything, especially himself, get in the way. More than that, we also see that his love is learned from heaven. It's conditional. And he doesn't realize that yet because he's so trapped in it. Aziraphale needs to break ties with an abuser and needs to learn how to love properly, the way he WANTS to but never had the bravery to do. And honestly I'm kind of here for it. Give me Aziraphale fighting for Crowley in season 3. I need to see Brave Aziraphale ASAP.
@@sillielillie25 Yeah dude, this was meant to happen, but the metatron vs the ineffable husbands has to happen in season 3 or i'm throwing myself off a cliff xd
Paper thin plot, zero tension, dull, and yet, incredibly sweet and feel good. I didn't really care it was a bit crap because the journey was so adorable
The "I forgive you" has a lot of parellels to the "I forgive you scene in Season 1.
- Aziraphel wanting to fix things within the system.
- Crowley wanting to leave together.
- Aziraphel not grasping/accepting the facts crowley is presenting.
- Crowley calling him stupid for this.
As a demon, Crowley is meant to be "unforgivable". For Aziraphale to say "I forgive you" is like saying "I love you", or saying "I see you beyond how you see yourself".
@januarykristibrionesmigalb5896 I would argue that Crowley has never really identified as a demon. I think k for him his issue with forgiveness is that he doesn't feel it is needed. He doesn't want it. Because he views heaven's actions to be as evil, if not more so, than the actions of hell. At the very least hypocritical.
Oh yeah. As a straight guy...This was completely adorable, made me all kinds of happy...and then sad :(. the writing and acting was fantastic.
Gaiman always said that they are genderless supernatural entities, and Crowley shifts between appearing male or female, depending on the job.
@@GingerPeacenik I was just replying to the question in the video. And sure, although that is not so closely defined in the show, leaving a lot of space open for interpretation and various subtexts, as well as various universal themes, a sign of very good writing. Just look at the various interpretations of a single line in the replies here. Now they will probably need to define it closer in the coming season and I am quite interested and intrigued in how that will be handled.
I dont think aziraphales reaction had anything to do with them being same sex. I think he just can't get over the "I'm an angel, you are a demon. We are on opposite sides" mentality. Thats why he wants to change Crowley back into an angel so bad.
I don’t think it really COULD be an issue with same sex, Neil’s made it clear that they’re not really gendered or have sexes
i think aziraphale's "i forgive you" was him trying to not show crowley his true feelings. he just can't see everything clearly given that metatron just offered him something so big and crowley being honest to himself was also a big thing to deal with for aziraphale. im not mad at azirapahale but im so sad for crowley.
Crowley is most definitely a disaster gay, and if it’s not a term, Crowley invented it
Also personally I feel that Aziraphale’s ‘I forgive you’ isn’t something about internalised homophobia or seeing gay love as sinful, it was more seeing Crowley as a demon who gave into lustful feelings or something. He saw love between demon and an angel as sinful, not gay love as such. I dunno, that’s how I saw it.
Edit: saw another comment that put it better: Aziraphale is forgiving Crowley for desperately trying to weaponise their emotions to make Aziraphale stay
I dont think he saw love between an angel and a demon as sinful, at least not anymore, since he seemed moved by beelzebub and gabriel's love and even seemed to relate. I don't think its homophobia either but there is smth said about how it looks like to a viewer. For a gay person who might've fallen for someone religious it's really painful. I agree with the lust I also see it as done without consent in a very rough way but the face aziraphale did when he said it hurt me more than the phrase itself i think.
As a demon, Crowley is meant to be "unforgivable". For Aziraphale to say "I forgive you" is like saying "I love you", or saying "I see you beyond how you see yourself".
I can't be mad at Aziraphale. He fell for an abuser's trap. "Baby come back it'll be different this time I need you." He was so desperate for any level of approval from Heaven he was an easy mark. We know it won't end up like he wants it to, but he's back down the rabbit hole.
I also think he wouldn't have said yes, ultimately, if Crowley wouldn't be allowed back. In his own way, I think he did this to keep Crowley safe from what he now knows is coming.
I *am* slightly miffed at Crowley. And this is very influenced by my own asexuality. But that kiss was not what their love deserved. That kiss was born of frustration, desperation, and an aggressive need to get a point across. And Aziraphale was not given the opportunity to refuse it.
Kudos to Michael's acting here because i had a visceral reaction. Aziraphale doesn't react favorably; he's not overwhelmed by the love or romance of the moment. He's in shock. He's frightened. He's flailing. Even when he does touch Crowley it's not an embrace, he wants to be let go.
The look on his face after is what broke me. Betrayal, hurt, and the tiniest hint of disgust. I don't think that disgust is "ew demon". I think that disgust is "my friend that i trust with my life just aggressively forced me into something I am not ready for." And my heart breaks for them because of it. Aziraphale's "I forgive you" has some anger behind it, he *meant* that one to hurt. Because he was trying, at that point, to get space between them.
I feel for Crowley, but I also feel for Aziraphale. The serpent misstepped here, badly.
This is a great perspective!
A lot of us ( well I suppose most of us) saw things only from Crowley's point of view maybe because it was honest to reality & because Aziraphale- though oblivious himself- was very obviously making the wrong choice.
That said, you're right, this interaction did not seem like something he was ready for, how much ever he clearly seemed to love Crowley. So yes, there's some fault yo be placed on Crowley for kissing him too.
But, I would say, it didn't seem like he forgave him to hurt him / as an insult, but rather because he was hurt possibly on two counts 1- He refused to come to heaven and be an angel with him & 2- For the (unfortunately unpleasant &) unexpected kiss
I agree about the meta-level of the ‘I forgive you’ line feeling like it’s come from a place of religious oppression/repression of queer identity/ guilt. I feel like there’s a very specific reading of Crowley and Aziraphale where each responds differently to their own queerness from within an oppressive religious system - Angel Crowley can’t see what’s wrong with it (asking a few questions) and gets kicked out of the community (falls) for being true to himself. Aziraphale is more cautious from the start and more unconsciously aware of what he has to do to fit within the system. And so stays repressed for longer.
But I thought within the show, the ‘I forgive you’ speaks most to Aziraphale’s failure to truly understand Crowley. He still believes in his heart of hearts that heaven is the good side, and the problems he’s encountered with heaven in both seasons are down to a few bad apples rather than the system itself. From within that worldview, he just can’t really conceive of the fact that Crowley wouldn’t want to recover his angelic nature. He’s always sneakily thought Crowley was actually good, rather than seeing how they both are both good and evil, shades of grey etc - that they both were choosing to step away from their respective systems. So the ‘i forgive you’ was about trying to give Crowley what Az thinks he needs - forgiveness - instead of listening to what Crowley is actually saying he needs.
And similarly, Crowley is failing to listen to what Aziraphale say too - Az actually flat out says he needs Crowley. He is desperate for Crowley to come with him. But Crowley can’t hear that because he can only hear the heaven part.
I can even understand why Aziraphale says the ‘nothing lasts forever’ line about the bookshop - he’s still trying to convince Crowley to come to heaven, he’s trying to point out that even Crowleys damnation won’t last forever, that as beautiful as their idyl on earth has been it can’t last forever because they have to get back to their real lives as angels. But Crowley hears that THEY can’t last forever, and sees (much more clearly than Aziraphale) that their lives on earth ARE their real lives, and the version of Heaven that exists in Aziraphale’s head doesn’t exist and has never existed.
As Nina and Maggie say, they never properly communicate and that’s their problem!
I agree. He didn't realize that Crowley doesn't want "I forgive you", he wants "I love you".
ahhhh i love a good weaponized "i forgive you" uttered at the most cutting moment possible. that and telling crowley he's welcome to eff off if he doesn't do what aziraphale wants are like, aziraphale's signature moves
Wait I really love your thoughts on it, but I also had a thought: The "I forgive you" didn't mean him talking about Crowley acting gay, did it? He literally tried to get Maggie and Nina together, no way he is judgemental, right?
Also the line that broke me even more was "Nothing lasts forever", which just sounds like the start of his villain arc ahhh
I really feel like Metatron put something into his coffee
also I really hate Shax
I meant it more on a meta level. I think literally speaking he's saying he forgives Crowley for hurting him in that moment. But on a more meta level it's hard to see past an angel telling a demon that there's something to forgive in a gay kiss.
@@Kritigri Oh yeah that's a really interesting take on it
Also I have more thoughts: Crowley has literally committed every one of the 7 deadly sins in the name of love (if you count drinking as gluttony) during the show, but Aziraphale only really was tempted by him to indulge in gluttony
I feel like it more so means that Aziraphale forgives Crowley for not coming with him. As in “Fine, if you don’t want to come to heaven with me then that’s okay, you can always join me later on. I won’t hold a grudge,” sorta thing?
@@owl-on-a-skateboard yeah probably that
I think he said "I forgive you" partly because if you look at his face he seemed overwhelmed and frightened by the kiss, especially the rough way Crowley man-handled him and kind of forced him into it by keeping hold of his clothes. When he was completely unprepared for it and maybe didn't want it.
Great analysis!! Really enjoyed it. I assumed that the "I forgive you" was not sexuality-related, but because Aziraphale is still so "demonphobic" (for lack of a better term). He's always thought that the angels are the good guys, even if Heaven is pretty corrupt. He thinks they can be happy and together only if they're both angels. Like you, I'm also definitely looking forward to Crowley being a "disaster queer/gay" in S3.
As a demon, Crowley is meant to be "unforgivable". For Aziraphale to say "I forgive you" is like saying "I love you", or saying "I see you beyond how you see yourself".
I should clarify when I said "you probably do" about having "any kind of crossover with the queer world", I just meant that most people probably know someone who is gay x)
It’s me. I’m the gay person I know
Well, as Crowley says himself, he's not a "lad", male, or anything else. As you may remember from the book, angels and demons in Gaiman world have no gender at all. They may wear male or (in Crowley's case on occasion) female "corporations", they can choose to give themselves either configuration of genitalia with "an effort", they may conform with their presumed pronouns in the human world, but as Neil has stated; they are neither male nor human, so technically, it's not a "gay romance".
I had a lot of the same thoughts and opinions you did. Especially about that "I forgive you" , it felt like it had multiple meanings but my first thought was that Aziraphale had felt some self-loathing about his feelings towards Crowley all this time
about Shax's 'evil voice'. Shax was played by Miranda Richardson & she was in Merlin 1998 as Queen Mab. Same voice/performance. She's totally doing the same low pitched evil whisper. & i love it
I hate Azi for making Crowley feel like he's worth less as long he's staying as a demon. The 'I forgive you' line came out like he was disgusted to be kissed by a demon. He was only ready to accept Crowley's love if he turned 'good' again (which is obviously nonsense 'cause he's already kind and good). He loves Crowley but it is conditional and I hate him for that.
Wow, that's not how I read that moment at all. My interpretation was that he was forgiving Crowley for the whole situation in general (perceived breaking of his trust by not returning with him to Heaven) which is still myopic and misguided on his part, but not about the kiss. I don't think it's that he wants Crowley 'good' again necessarily, he's just scared to move on from Heaven himself. He's still in a toxic relationship with the idea of God and being pure and Holy, but he also wants Crowley...he's scared and he's not ready yet to make the hard choice. The seeds of doubt about his ability to really move on from Heaven were being foreshadowed the whole season.
I really don't think it was a good time for a kiss either, what with Aziraphale being so obviously upset. I'm not surprised at all that he reacted that way. I'm not blaming Crowley for it either, it was definitely a heat-of-the-moment, last-ditch effort to get him to stay. It was no one's fault, but it was messy and very human moment for them. In that way, it was a beautiful and heartbreaking ending to the season - two beings love each other more than anything in Creation, but can't bring themselves to connect at the right times.
One of the takes I’ve liked on Aziraphale’s reaction discusses the fact that Crowley’s kiss was an act of desperate temptation to get Az to stay, and Az took it as such. Not saying that it wasn’t a truly heartfelt expression of love on Crowley’s end, just that Az literally had no time to process it, and fell back into old responses and coping mechanisms. I think the biggest “flaw” with Aziraphale isn’t that he’s heartless. Far from it. His biggest failing is that he expects that Crowley will always keep coming back (and in his defense that has always been the case) so he takes it for granted. I think it all just happened too fast, and as the show itself pointed out, these two have no idea how to talk to each other. 6k+ years of no talking and *this* was the first attempt at it? Was bound to crash and burn.
What do you think of that smile Aziraphale was flashing during the credits of the final episode?
Maybe he was putting that on for the Metatron. Maybe he was already regretting getting into the lift, and he was trying to cover his feelings, to pretend to him (Metatron) that he was happy with his decision?
I definitely think the Metatron put something in his coffee to influence his decision.😢
@@clarestubbs9303you're probably right on some but we can definitely tell it's a fake as fuck smile he has there. I can just tell he's going to be extremely miserable this next season without crowley there to be with him for the first time in their entire lives.
Muriel is my new baby girl and I will protect her at all cost.
If you seriously think Aziraphale said "I forgive you" because of anything to do with "same-sex relationships", you missed the entire point of the show. Don't be so shallow.
mean they are a demon and angel and homophobia is a mortal invention so I don't think they immortal beings would be so concerned about sexually in general. But I guess they could possibly be an allegory made about being an angel and demon and choosing your own path.
i don’t think aziraphale meant the “i forgive you” line from a sense of “gays kissing is bad.” the demons AND angels in this show are clearly fruity as hell and have made it clear that they show no disdain for queer people and their affection for each other. therefore, aziraphale wouldn’t feel that way either. he loves crowley fully. plus, the characters are omnipotent type beings. there are even lines eluding to them being non-binary or genderfluid. i don’t think it should be seen as a “gay kiss,” but rather just a kiss that has been meaning to happen for centuries. the “i forgive you” is more to do with crowley not wanting to go with him, and not the kiss itself.
'I forgive you' is irrelevant to homophobia. If you watch the rest of it, Aziraphale falls back on 'I forgive you' when he doesn't know how to communicate his feelings and he's closing off to Crowley. It's his version of Crowley's sunglasses.
"God this show must make religious people really fucking angry."
From a Catholic, yes, it makes some people angry. It however does not make me angry. It makes me sad, because the bible I grew up with has somehow turned into something that will continue to make me cry??? I have no idea why. My atheist dad thinks me being so upset is very funny. I love Good Omens so much, and I will continue to defend it against religious people who think it blasphemous.
Aziraphale said that not because he's homophobic, but because Crowley is a demon. That's like one of his main characteristics that he blindly believes in heaven and always thinks of hell as "the other side". That's why he was so happy for the possibility for Crowley to become an angel again so they would be together in heaven
Was anyone else confused at first when actors who were in season 1 played different characters in season 2 with no explanation (i.e. Shax/ Madam Tracy & Nina/ Sister Mary Loquacious)? Was this explained in the book? I haven’t read it yet.
This was a fantastic season. If you're wondering why there was such little going on and not many characters of people because this is all film during the Covid craziness.
3k views! Thanks for making this my most popular video, everyone. I'm glad you all seem to have enjoyed it.
The more I consider it, the less convinced I am on my initial closeted religious homophobe Aziraphale (albeit on a meta level) take. You lot have convinced me that the rejection was more based on their relationship than anything else. "You go too fast for me, Crowley."
I still don't believe in theories regarding Aziraphale being literally brainwashed by the Metatron in any way, simply because it'd make for a less interesting story. What do we want, Aziraphale doing what he did because events collated in a way which transformed him into the worst version of himself, or he's supes evil now cause Metatron spiked his coffee and it's all a tragic misunderstanding?I know what I'd write.
The fact that you can't remember main characters' names shortly after watching the show (by your own admission) and that you couldn't bother looking up their names but you still somehow feel people should listen to you opine for 8 minutes says a lot about your arrogance and laziness.
I don't think that's what Aziraphale was forgiving Crowley for, although it isn't entirely spelled out.
I think part of it was that Crowley was so rough in kissing him--grabbing by the collar him almost in anger and forcing the kiss.
@@letolethe3344 That could be. It was a complicated kiss. And Crowley had been saying that one fabulous kiss could fix everything, so there was desperation in it too.
the more I see these views on good omens ending, the angrier I get about azi. he doesn't deserve Crowley. season 3 has some big answers to find. like how Crowley could forgive azi.
Totally agree with your Gaiman comment. How could he do that to all the Good Omen fans? He wrote Aziraphale into a selfish, narcissistic jerk. What in the heck was he forgiving Crowley for?
I mean, we can always rely on the coffee theory 🤷♂
To clarify, I was being playful with my "Fuck you, Neil Gaiman!" comment. I think Aziraphale has always been capable of being this worst version of himself and the Metatron's offer combined with his own deeply buried emotions being thrust unexpectedly up to the surface probably brought this about. I think season 3 will be about redeeming him and we're supposed to be angry at him.
But isn't Aziraphale the one that always re-establishes their demon/angel dynamic?
SO HOT TAKE!!! I ACTUALLY LIKE WHAT HAPPENED. We get to see how heaven's hold on Aziraphale is so toxic. Like Nina, he's in an abusive relationship. Now he gets to learn, to grow, and to break out on his own. Crowley can't do that for him. And if he wants Crowley he can't let anything, especially himself, get in the way. More than that, we also see that his love is learned from heaven. It's conditional. And he doesn't realize that yet because he's so trapped in it. Aziraphale needs to break ties with an abuser and needs to learn how to love properly, the way he WANTS to but never had the bravery to do. And honestly I'm kind of here for it.
Give me Aziraphale fighting for Crowley in season 3. I need to see Brave Aziraphale ASAP.
@@sillielillie25 Yeah dude, this was meant to happen, but the metatron vs the ineffable husbands has to happen in season 3 or i'm throwing myself off a cliff xd
FYI Muriel uses they/them pronouns
My bad, thanks for the catch
Paper thin plot, zero tension, dull, and yet, incredibly sweet and feel good. I didn't really care it was a bit crap because the journey was so adorable