Hey guys, since you mention me, I did want to say that I respectfully disagree with Dan here regarding the cause for the midbass resonance in the poorer performers in my testing. If you look at the speakers I noted as having a midbass resonance, You’ll see that it is a high-Q resonance and not a mild one. If it were the latter, then that would simply be evidence that baffle step was not taken into account. Based on not just the acoustical measurement, but also the electrical impedance, I believe strongly that the issue was that the enclosure was just too small for the drivers VAS/Qts. For example, the Focal 1000 IWLCR6 has a +10dB peak at 100Hz. That signals poor enclosure design rather than baffle step design flaws. The Bowers & Wilkins CWM7.3 S2 behaves similarly. Perhaps it’s a combination of both the enclosure and the oversight of baffle step. But I would not say it is only the latter. And therefore disagree with Dan’s assessment, at least in regards to those particular speakers.
Hey Erin. I think it’s totally likely it’s a mix of both. Dan actually gave me a call. Wanted to be clear he meant no offense and appreciates you identifying and calling out the problem. I suspect this could make for a good sidebar discussion. I think the bigger point is that there are two likely contributing factors that are both addressable and other manufacturers aren’t.
This was a fun change of pace, you guys have great chemistry. I’m glad you both got pulled into the Audioholics fold. This topic is so timely for me, as I’ve decided to use identical tower speakers for every bed layer channel in a 7.?.? .All these thoughts and considerations were really stimulating and helped me conceptualize whether it’s the path forward for me or not. I really like the comment on how ported main speakers invert the phase right at the crossover with the subwoofer. I feel that topic is really interesting and worth exploring in another video. Is it advisable to use a ported speaker and ported sub together? To have them match whether ported or sealed? My speakers are ported, and run comfortably down to 35hz, I’m still sub shopping. Would it be advisable to get ported subs so all the bass is ported together. Or advisable to get sealed subs and simply plug the speakers? I am leaning towards the fidelity of sealed and their even order harmonics. I suppose for those who already have their subs/speakers, what would be advisable for them? I hope you guys pick the topic up, but I understand if you don’t. It may also be an opportunity to explore the psychoacoustic research on even order and odd order harmonics, and port selection. Hope to see more of the Dynamic Duo soon :)
@@bradlee2594 we probably shouldn’t comment on what is or isn’t coming in that regard. There are plans for a comprehensive speaker lineup to meet most consumer and integrator needs. I expect many more exciting developments in the not too distant future.
We actually said the same thing to each other. James and I talk like this when it’s just the two of us. We have always had good conversations. Good healthy disagreements. We will do more. I think Gene just wants us to keep it under 90 minutes next time.
It would be interesting if perlisten offered the S7i without a back box n supply the ideal volume for the back box to be custom built in the wall to allow it to extend lower in bass without a rolloff at 80Hz. Perhaps that's an advantage with the kef inwalls being open back so if installed in a properly sized custom built back box inside the wall, it will allow the drivers to play lower
Hi guys, a quick wuestion, i live in the uk and our rooms are not as bit as yours in the states, i am sitting about 9 feet from the speaker wall, does rhis mean i should pick a different in wall speaker, was looking at the perlisten S7 for the centre in a horizontal position and R5 for sides, if i need a different speaker what would you recommend thanks Oz
Their in-walls are looking really impressive and you guys make a strong case for in-wall over box speakers. Thanks for another great discussion, you guys are the dream team!
Great content as always! It would be great to hear your thoughts on aiming surround in wall speakers and how to minimize any diffraction issues caused by not having the speakers flat to the wall. Would it be best to create a large flat baffle in line with the speaker face or curve the the raised edges back to the wall so the speaker appears like a small bump? You mentioned surrounding in wall speakers with lineacoustic, does this apply only to the LCR or all in wall speakers? If a speaker is fitted flush to the wall is ok to have the lineacoustc protrude the speaker face? When placing in wall speakers close to acoustic treatments and stretched fabric framing does this cause diffraction issues and would it be beneficial to space them further away from the speakers and treat any hard edges with lineacoustic?
Amazing info! Thank you guys! So, I've got S7i's coming with on-wall boxes. The on-wall boxes are only 4 inches deep. How bad or noticeable with the SBIR be given only a 4 inch depth off the wall? Cheers ~
To prove your point of in-wall vs in-room speaker comparison, wouldn't Triad be the brand to test? They produce in-room, in-wall and in- ceiling versions of most of their speakers.
Knew it would be great and thank you for sharing the information. I will have to manage a lot but am now delaying my in-wall speakers purchase by 4 months and getting S5i for LCR and S4i for surrounds, here in Mumbai, India.
When I used may MiniDSP DDRC88A with MSO and Dirac I actually could use all pass filters on all channels. My new Tronnov doesnt support them but I think they could implement it. In the end an all pass is just another IIR filter.
Not trying to detract from Perlisten, but since you mentioned in the stream that Perlisten are the first THX Dominus certified speakers in market, and show a picture of a theater using 21xRTs, can you provide any insight as to why the JTRs aren't? Perhaps they just haven't submitted them to THX for certification? It seems they have the full range sustained spl capabilites with low distortion, well managed directivity and the necessary efficiency. Just curious.
Flagship JTR & the top flagship model RTJ would easily meet the SPL levels required for THX Dominus! Don't know about the ultra low distortion at very high SPL levels. Maybe maybe not (but guessing yes in the very top JTR/RTJ models) as its very stringent for THX certification. JTR or any company can pay to get THX Dominus certified. If of course they pass all the tough tests.
Hey guys, since you mention me, I did want to say that I respectfully disagree with Dan here regarding the cause for the midbass resonance in the poorer performers in my testing.
If you look at the speakers I noted as having a midbass resonance, You’ll see that it is a high-Q resonance and not a mild one. If it were the latter, then that would simply be evidence that baffle step was not taken into account. Based on not just the acoustical measurement, but also the electrical impedance, I believe strongly that the issue was that the enclosure was just too small for the drivers VAS/Qts.
For example, the Focal 1000 IWLCR6 has a +10dB peak at 100Hz. That signals poor enclosure design rather than baffle step design flaws. The Bowers & Wilkins CWM7.3 S2 behaves similarly.
Perhaps it’s a combination of both the enclosure and the oversight of baffle step. But I would not say it is only the latter. And therefore disagree with Dan’s assessment, at least in regards to those particular speakers.
Hey Erin. I think it’s totally likely it’s a mix of both. Dan actually gave me a call. Wanted to be clear he meant no offense and appreciates you identifying and calling out the problem.
I suspect this could make for a good sidebar discussion. I think the bigger point is that there are two likely contributing factors that are both addressable and other manufacturers aren’t.
PERCENTAGE of ppl who are buying speakers in that price range..... Im guessing less than 1% of the AV market
This was a fun change of pace, you guys have great chemistry. I’m glad you both got pulled into the Audioholics fold.
This topic is so timely for me, as I’ve decided to use identical tower speakers for every bed layer channel in a 7.?.? .All these thoughts and considerations were really stimulating and helped me conceptualize whether it’s the path forward for me or not.
I really like the comment on how ported main speakers invert the phase right at the crossover with the subwoofer. I feel that topic is really interesting and worth exploring in another video. Is it advisable to use a ported speaker and ported sub together? To have them match whether ported or sealed?
My speakers are ported, and run comfortably down to 35hz, I’m still sub shopping. Would it be advisable to get ported subs so all the bass is ported together. Or advisable to get sealed subs and simply plug the speakers? I am leaning towards the fidelity of sealed and their even order harmonics.
I suppose for those who already have their subs/speakers, what would be advisable for them? I hope you guys pick the topic up, but I understand if you don’t. It may also be an opportunity to explore the psychoacoustic research on even order and odd order harmonics, and port selection.
Hope to see more of the Dynamic Duo soon :)
Are you aware of plans for in-ceiling models, specifically for use with Atmos? Thanks!
@@bradlee2594 we probably shouldn’t comment on what is or isn’t coming in that regard. There are plans for a comprehensive speaker lineup to meet most consumer and integrator needs. I expect many more exciting developments in the not too distant future.
We actually said the same thing to each other. James and I talk like this when it’s just the two of us. We have always had good conversations. Good healthy disagreements.
We will do more. I think Gene just wants us to keep it under 90 minutes next time.
It would be interesting if perlisten offered the S7i without a back box n supply the ideal volume for the back box to be custom built in the wall to allow it to extend lower in bass without a rolloff at 80Hz. Perhaps that's an advantage with the kef inwalls being open back so if installed in a properly sized custom built back box inside the wall, it will allow the drivers to play lower
Hi guys, a quick wuestion, i live in the uk and our rooms are not as bit as yours in the states, i am sitting about 9 feet from the speaker wall, does rhis mean i should pick a different in wall speaker, was looking at the perlisten S7 for the centre in a horizontal position and R5 for sides, if i need a different speaker what would you recommend thanks Oz
If someone built a Perlisten speaker and used 2x4's and particle board around it like in walls, you guys would laugh.
1:46:19 theres no reason to not tell guys..
Just found out today that Perlisten Speakers are made in China? That's disappointing, especially for what these speakers cost.
To be fair there's every kind of manufacturer in China from crap to top tier, it just depends what you are willing to pay for.
Their in-walls are looking really impressive and you guys make a strong case for in-wall over box speakers. Thanks for another great discussion, you guys are the dream team!
Great discussion Matt and James!
Great content as always!
It would be great to hear your thoughts on aiming surround in wall speakers and how to minimize any diffraction issues caused by not having the speakers flat to the wall. Would it be best to create a large flat baffle in line with the speaker face or curve the the raised edges back to the wall so the speaker appears like a small bump? You mentioned surrounding in wall speakers with lineacoustic, does this apply only to the LCR or all in wall speakers?
If a speaker is fitted flush to the wall is ok to have the lineacoustc protrude the speaker face?
When placing in wall speakers close to acoustic treatments and stretched fabric framing does this cause diffraction issues and would it be beneficial to space them further away from the speakers and treat any hard edges with lineacoustic?
Thats pretty much most of the questions going around my head after watching as well 😆, did you find any answers yet?
Sir which the best pre pro anthem avm 90 or marantz av 10
Are Perlisten speakers made in China?
Yes they are.
Amazing info! Thank you guys! So, I've got S7i's coming with on-wall boxes. The on-wall boxes are only 4 inches deep. How bad or noticeable with the SBIR be given only a 4 inch depth off the wall? Cheers ~
To prove your point of in-wall vs in-room speaker comparison, wouldn't Triad be the brand to test? They produce in-room, in-wall and in- ceiling versions of most of their speakers.
What baffles me is how different the directivity is so different in the S7i compared to the other Perlisten in wall models?
Knew it would be great and thank you for sharing the information. I will have to manage a lot but am now delaying my in-wall speakers purchase by 4 months and getting S5i for LCR and S4i for surrounds, here in Mumbai, India.
When I used may MiniDSP DDRC88A with MSO and Dirac I actually could use all pass filters on all channels. My new Tronnov doesnt support them but I think they could implement it. In the end an all pass is just another IIR filter.
the t.racks DSP 4x4 Mini suports allpass filter
Great lecture. Really appreciated the effort from both of you.
Can these be used on wall ?
Not trying to detract from Perlisten, but since you mentioned in the stream that Perlisten are the first THX Dominus certified speakers in market, and show a picture of a theater using 21xRTs, can you provide any insight as to why the JTRs aren't? Perhaps they just haven't submitted them to THX for certification? It seems they have the full range sustained spl capabilites with low distortion, well managed directivity and the necessary efficiency. Just curious.
Flagship JTR & the top flagship model RTJ would easily meet the SPL levels required for THX Dominus!
Don't know about the ultra low distortion at very high SPL levels. Maybe maybe not (but guessing yes in the very top JTR/RTJ models) as its very stringent for THX certification.
JTR or any company can pay to get THX Dominus certified. If of course they pass all the tough tests.