The problem with 90% of upward firing speakers is their design. Dolby limits their bandwidth vs the crossover, to promote beaming, and avoid direct sound to the listener. Its not an effective design. A better solution is for the speakers to be angled, but recessed in the box with acoustic lining. This does a much better job of reducing direct sound, and isolating the reflected sound. Also how one angles them is crucial to insuring the reflected sound even reaches the seating position. The best method is to use a helper with a ladder, who places a mirror on the ceiling where the listener can see the speaker from their normal seating position. Once accomplished, the listener then goes over to the upward firing speaker and angles the speaker so it aims directly at the mirror. A small flashlight or laser pointer is helpful. The height of the ceiling is less important than the angling, as the room correction software will set the appropriate output for all speakers, including upward firing ones. The only off-the-shelf, upward firing Atmos speakers, I would recommend are the Atlantic Technology 44-DAs and the PSB Imagine XA Atmos enabled
I have some Klipsch tower speakers that have Atmos speakers in the top, and they are recessed and angled internally but you can't tell without removing the covers.
That’s interesting. I did something in that idea but in a budget/patchwork kind of way. After selling off all my Paradigm speakers I went with Hsu Research across the front, as well as the sub. Just to get the 4-7 speakers going I got 4 Polk T-15’s to put on the walls. Before I got around to replacing them I became unhappy with the Hsu speakers and replaced them with Klipsch RP across the front. But I’m still unhappy with speakers 6+7 so, a couple of weeks ago, I decided to try them in an Atmos position and re-assign them to “height”. I wasn’t that interested in height prior to this as I first had Paradigm Atom speakers in this position over 20 years ago with my Yamaha 3200, which had outputs called, oddly enough, “height”. Unimpressed, I was. Anyway, I got a couple of small wall shelves at Lowes, installed them above head level (while seated) on either side of the TV, moved 6&7 to the shelves in the horizontal position and propped up the backs with a length of 2”x2” for, oh, let’s call it 30° angle. Purists out there are retching and fainting right about now but the results were quite impressive. I’m just about to start experimenting with the volume levels. Will I decide I need dedicated design height speakers? Small sample test size at this point but I kind of doubt it. The T-15’s project well and I see no pressing reason to replace them (more gasps from the purists)…at this time. We’ll see. Oh, and I’m not sure why Dolby seems to get all the credit for “height”. Yamaha had it in a receiver (probably) designed in the 90’s and, with a limited number of Atmos enabled disks available I just keep the DTS:X button pressed on my Marantz receiver. So I get some effect on everything, even the AAC audio rips, I mean “backups”, I keep on hard drive. Anyway, it’s a good suggestion to at least experiment with speakers on hand before diving in. You can, at least, get an idea if the concept works for you without buying speakers.
I've downfiring speakers, similar distance away from everything else. I've my heights +7db higher. Blends well. Even my yamaha reciever, put them at +6 on auto calibration. Definitely, don't be scared to raise their volume if the effect isn't hitting you!
Use the speaker balancing app on the receiver using the included microphone… This is critical for a Dolby set up. If you haven’t… your listening experience, while interesting, isn’t Dolby. You will over drive your speakers… by a lot. After all you bought them to ‘hear’ them! Right?
I would think upfiring would cause a bunch of issues interfering with the other speakers. I'd also think you would have some latency with the added distance.
If you run the automatic setup that comes with most modern surround sound amps, it should adjust the time delay to accomodate the speakers position, distance and how long the audio takes to reach the microphone. Latency should not be an issue.
Thanks for this video. I have Klipsch up-firing speakers on my towers for years (5.2.2). Thought is was ok, but nothing great. Can't do in ceiling speakers, but after watching you video, I moved the up-firing to Front presence height location (8' ceiling). Absolutely huge difference in my room. on ATMOS tracks I actually can sense the sound is coming overhead.
I agree just upgraded to Dolby Atmos and go the Upward Firing Speakers you put on top of the Tower Speakers. It just made the Tower Speaker sound better..
Excellent Ealan! I've been looking for while now for someone to talk about this topic and I think you're the only one. Thanks for the great content! Keep it up! 👍
I actually built speaker boxes for "in-wall/ceiling" speakers, and successfully stud-mounted them to my ceiling in a unique manner. Ceiling speakers have always been a priority even when thinking Atmos early on. And I did this for the first FOUR, and down the line I'm going to get it to SIX. Little bits at a time for now.
If you can't hear the upfiring atmos speakers being reflected off a flat ceiling at that height then it is because you're suppose to configure your HT receiver so that it knows that you are using up-firing so it can set the audio levels and time delays properly. It helps if you have a decent quality receiver that has room correction software built-in and can connect a mic so that it can be done automatically. But in saying that it still isn't going to be as good as direct sound.
I live in a pretty small apartment, and I have my home theatre in my bedroom. So space is really tiny. so I stacked up boxes to put my height speakers on the side up to the ceiling (pretty short ceilings) and it works very well considering that I'm running 5.1.2. I didn't even bother trying upward firing as I heard it wasn't the best.
Like some of the other commenters said, did you play around with the volume setting for the upward firing speakers? In most of the autocalibration I did, the receiver boosts the volume for the atmos speakers by 3-6 dBs. Also noticed that your ceiling is not quite flat, so could be a lot of scattered reflection which reduces the sound going into your ears. But this could be just the quality of your video that made the ceiling look halfway between a flat ceiling and a popcorn ceiling.
My experience with upwards firing speakers is excellent! I have 7.1.2 setup, with front speakers (and upwards speakers) from Definitive Technologies 9060 series, and KEF T301 as surround speakers, connected to Denon X6700H AVR, thoroughly calibrated with Audyssey. While most movies hardly have much going on “up there”, in video games, like Cyberpunk 2077 the effect is insane! Aircraft and monorail trains flying overhead, someone shooting at me from up above etc. My favorite test is to find music source blasting from one of the shops on the streets of Night City, approach them - and you can pinpoint the exact source of the sound above you.
You hit the nail on the head. Dolby killed Atmos for movies with their anti-consumer crap; it's only worth using for fake sound processing, like video games.
this is why I have upfiring speakers in my game room in a 5.1.2 setup. In my theater I have 7.2.4 with my atmos speakers all in ceiling with tweeters aimed at the main listening position.
Upfirers can work... but in my experience, the auto-cal in AVRs almost never gets the distance/delay right. Some AVRs have a separate setting for you to manually set distance from the upfirer to the ceiling, but even then, you basically have to put on a good Atmos demo clip and tweak distances until you hear it snap into place. I think that's why most people end up thinking they just don't work at all. That said, you're still right. They should be the last resort.
right...what's the proper way to measure the distance/delay of the atmos modules? is it to measure first from the atmos module to the ceiling and then ADD the distance from the ceiling to the listener? Thanks
@@TheFandangovideoguy It depends. If you have a newer AVR that has the parameter you can adjust to tell it the distance from your upfirer to the ceiling, it does simple math to calculate the delay based on what the third side of that triangle would be (with one side being upfirer to ceiling and the other being the direct path from MLP to the upfirer, which is what your auto-cal detects). If you have an older AVR, it's a crapshoot. They were typically pre-set to an expected 8 foot ceiling height expectation with the upfirers roughly just above typical seated ear level (39 inches, if I recall). So at that point, I found that the best result was to just measure from the upfirer to where it points on the ceiling and then down from that point to the MLP.
@@TheReverendSlim you are math wizard! I have a Denon AVR-4400h...a good one...so I guess the AVR doesn't calculate the real distance from the atmos bouncing module to the MLP...I'll take a look a t the manual and see what distance to enter...it doesn't sound bad as it is...maybe it could be better. Thanks
@@TheFandangovideoguy If you're using upfirers on the 4400, go to the distance section under manual speaker setup. At the bottom, it will have a dolby settings part that will let you adjust the distance from the upfirer to the ceiling.
I'm not disputing your findings with the room and speakers you used, but I have Focal Sib Evo with built-in purpose designed Atmos upfiring speakers and they really work in my living room. Where they lose out is in accurate positioning of the sounds front to rear, but overhead effects genuinely sound like they are overhead. In-ceiling speakers aren't an option for my room, but I have previously tried speakers in various other positions. Up high on the front, but set as front height in my AVR, and they added little to height and no sense of overhead at all. I tried the test you did with all other speakers disconnected and with every movie I tried they pretty much never made a sound. Also ran with them up on the side walls and they were more active in that position, but also never really sounded overhead and it was too easy to localise the sound as coming from a specific speaker. The upfiring are easily the best experience, really filling out the soundstage and adding more height to the front than the physical front speakers did. It doesn't hurt that this is the cleanest setup also with no wires running up the walls.
I have two Klipsch RP500SA's on adjustable speakers stands behind my 65inch Sony Z9D. Their faceplate are 3 feet away from my 8 feet flat ceiling. Both speakers set several DB's higher than bed level speakers. Awesome upFiring Atmos performance. I also have two Focal Evo upFiring as rear. Set their DB levels much higher than bed level speakers. Thus I'm running 5.1.4. My setup Atmos's sounds is so Amazing... Heights or inCeiling is not needed by me. I also have high end SVS Subs. I love SVS. I've been to high end Home Theater Demo rooms. I took my best 4K Atmos Blu Ray there to demo inCeiling Atmos. So my 5.1.4 Atmos decision was much thought out with careful Atmos sound listening and proper setup. Proper Atmos speakers DB levels calibration.
My upfiring atmos speakers are 3 feet from the ceiling. They sound great. I prefer not to know where the sound is coming from when watching movies. It's too distracting and I lose my concentration on the movie story line.
i've been trying to decide if i wanted to move my atmos speakers from upward firing to wall mounting behind my tv... you just sold me because i've been feeling the same way about having them upward firing. thanks for the video!
Great Video, I would just add when I first got the Klipsch 5.1.2 set up with the built in atmos speakers I did A/B testing not with the atmos modules alone but with and without them in the whole set up. While the pinpoint location possible with overhead set ups wasn't there, in my room with my set up, the upward firing speakers did add the 'environmental' immersion with reverb and sound effects that had me forgetting I was supposed to be doing a comparison and sucked me right into the scene every time.
Exactly. That’s why I wanted to stress that upward firing isn’t completely worthless, just not the absolutely best option out there. Gotta do the best you can with what you already have! 🤘
I use onkyo upfiring Atmos speakers. 1 feet lower than the ceiling pointing to the ceiling angled to the listener . They work super fine. Please try and you will see how the sound bounces from the ceiling and widens the listening effects
You can ALWAYS add a secondary ceiling. Which is the most beneficial for sound and running new wiring plus the added eye glory of the speakers being hidden....
Thank you for the description of what you should expect to actually hear given the different positions. Most people don’t explain it as well thank you.
That's why I purchased a Bose 900 about a year ago and their height channels and rear jewel surrounds speakers are a Beast. I have 12foot ceilings and you hear and feel it all even if the content not in Atmos.
After a bunch of experimentation (at least in my Man Cave), I found that making a wood baffle to the tilted Atmos speaker on top of the main stereo mains works very well. A three-sided piece of 1/4" plywood stuck on the speaker on listening side of angled speaker with double-sided tape. Essentially, the key is blocking the direct sound path to the listening ear from the Atmos speaker is key. Audessey, equalizing really made it zone in on a great sound experience. Point is...every room is different and fun to to try out what is best for you.
For upward-firing speakers, what he didn't mention is if he actually tried every possibly setting - adjusting the proper height, cross-over, volume, etc. Some people swear by them (when configured correctly).
I'm experimenting with a 5th option (up-fire, on-wall). I have up-firing Polk XT-90s and found them to be lacking when placed on top of my fronts/rears. I completely agree with your findings... too lossy with the extra distance this creates and they mostly get lost. I have wall mount brackets in the corners of my room (front and back about 1.5' from ceiling), I'm trying out placing them into the brackets but not pointing them directly at me, leaving them pointing up towards the ceiling at 45 degrees. That way, the sound from each "fills" the corners of the room with less directional effect. Still too soon to tell if this is better than placing them pointing directly with those brackets, but so far so good and I like it.
I have the Pioneer add on Atmos module speakers for the front and rear speakers, and I also barely heard anything coming from the height channels when I placed them on top on the main speakers, so I decided to mount the Atmos speakers to the ceiling and it made all the difference in the world. I can easily hear Atmos in a good mix and makes the movie soundtrack totally immersive! I have a Marantz 8802a and updated it to Auro 3D capability. I purchased a few Blu-Ray discs with Auro 3D, and originally set up the Marantz for 7.1.4 Auro 3D configuration. However, speaker placement wasn’t optimized for Auro 3D, but was compatible for Auro 3D and Atmos. Result: Auro 3D wasn’t a dramatic difference from Dolby Atmos, and the price for Auro 3D software wasn’t justified. Since Atmos is prevalent here in the US, I decided recalibrate the Marantz for Atmos. Also, when I had the system optimized for Auro 3D, the front and rear Height Channels didn’t independently produce sound from the LH and RH, rather they both created the same pink noise signal at the same time using an Atmos disc. Furthermore, only the front height speakers were engaged producing any Atmos effects. The Rear Atmos channels were never used. When I recalibrated the system for Atmos, I got back the LH and RH channels on both the front and back Height Channels. Watching in Atmos is more immersive with all speakers engaged. My impressions: Auro 3D sounds similar to Atmos with Auro 3D content, but due to system configuration with Auro, you may not get 7.1.4 with Atmos soundtracks. On the other hand, you do get better overall enveloping sound from the Auro 3D up mixer. It gives a natural sound field for non Auro 3D or 2.0, 5.1 and 7.1 material. Unfortunately, once configuring the Marantz back to Atmos, I lose a few Auro 3D effects options. Btw, Atmos is based on Auro 3D, but due to copyright issues, Dolby changed the speaker placement for their design. AURO 3D uses DTS as their codec to carry Auro 3D information, while Dolby uses Dolby TrueHD 7.1 at the core plus metadata to extend capabilities for Atmos.
I am running a Marantz with the Pioneer up firing in the front. I am going to switch to the SVS prime atmos speakers and mount them to the front ceiling. I was trying to avoid drilling holes into the ceiling and I do not want to cut speaker holes.
Lighting. Great presentation, sound is ok, you just have to get a backlight on you to separate you from the wall. And a side fill light too (a white card will work perfect)
I found that if you increase the volume of the up firing speakers it makes a huge difference and it did actually sound like it was coming from the ceiling it was truly impressive that was with about 8 foot ceiling I also found tilting the speakers so the sound reached you also helps My new house ha higher ceiling so will need to see if it’s the same
Unless you have a large seating area with multiple people this would be useless. Properly setup 5.2.4 or 7.2.4 in a large living room gives you 360° coverage
Regardless how much you increase the volume of up firing speakers (dolby atmos enabled) you will never get close to the effect of ceiling speaker. Tried it myself. There is one exception: If your existing 5.1 setup (especially with good/bad placed or poor SR speakers) isn't that good, the effect might be ok, since you didn't have great effects in the first place.
Things a LOT of people don't factor in when it comes to ATMOS speakers: Speaker drive size and dispersion pattern. You set up top front speakers for Atmos but you are using speakers with 3 or 4-inch woofers and a 1 inch or smaller tweeter. Your seating position is 10 - 12 feet away from the speakers. By the time the sound from your top fronts gets to your ears, the SPL has been reduced by 10 dB or more due to sound cancellation and bad acoustics. The correct speaker you should be using is one with a 10-inch driver and a 1.5 - 2 inch compression driver with at least 100 watts of power for the TOP fronts to work for Atmos.
Loved the idea of the wall of sound. And compatible with DTS-X, and Auro-3D I mounted them on wall. But.... now I heard that seperation is most important and you shouldn't go lower than 45 degrees on your front heights.... So overthinking of mounting them higher to get that 45 degrees. My listening position is about 4 mtr from the screen and my ceiling is 4.25m high so I can get that angle
When mounting my heights in my testing theater I built last year, I went with Auro 3D’s specs, mounting them at 30 degrees. I personally think it does better with binaural hearing (since we have two ears on either side of our heads) making height effects more noticeable. It’s science, baby! 😁
You have to calculate the algorithmic scale for reflecting of the ceiling..as NORMAL atmos is made for speakers IN the ceiling...If you want reflective sound to come anywhere near that experience you'll have to add at least 4 to 6db to the volume of the atmos channels...
@@savitarr1162 I don't know, you might get the same "effect" by lowering the level on all the other speakers and turning up the volume. But i don't know when it will start distorting. That might be worth a try. so leave the upfiring at six and lower everything else by 2 or so and turn up the volume a bit and see if there is a difference..
@@justkiddin1980 do the rear/upfiring speakers get louder when You turn on the volume? This sound bar is so loud I never put higher then volume 12-13, maybe thats a reason I dont realy hear sound from above
@@savitarr1162 Okay so its a "soundbar" yeah good luck with that..The solution with a soundbar is never ideal and might never work like you want it to. I thought it was a normal homecinema system you were talking about. All soundbars have limitations and you might never really get the effect you're trying to create i am sorry to say.
Wonderful content. Have 3 pair of Atmos speakers. Klipsch r 41sa Klipsch rp 500sa SVS Prime Elevation Going to try the side wall placement for my Elevation pair.
4 height speakers. I divided the 180 degrees from base layer in front and base layer in back into 3 x 60 degrees. So overhead pans should be having no gaps in time. Same for base layer, trying to keep angles the same as possible.
Thank you for saving me the time and expense of moving forward with purchasing upward firing speakers. My only placement option, at this time, would be flanking my center speaker on my entertainment center. This less than optimal positioning would not have been close to satisfactory.
Really cool calm monologue. Been considering whether to invest in some upward firing speakers, this has given me some food for thought. Thanks. And you’re right, once you begin the home theatre journey, you can’t stop…
And specifically birds chirping etc were heard above it was amazing It may just be your ceiling doesn’t bounce the sound and I as just lucky and may not be lucky in my new house
I'm used starting a 300USD AVR+speaker set for 7 years and just getting my first Dolby atmos setup today but I have to manage and clear some stuff in my room first lmao. And my budget was not enough so I take the Yamaha RX-A4A because of the price and took almost the budget into 5.2.2 set up with Klipsch. After doing some research I think I have a plan to go for 7.2.4 in the future. But for now.. This is my first time Atmos experience I'm still excited to experiment with upward firing and on the wall for soon.
Excellent overview. Having tried all 3 methods with 2 and 4 height speakers 🔊, my thoughts are as follows: 1. Use 4 height speakers if you can. The sound pans more accurately and gives you an actual sense of movement. 2. SVS is right -- place your wall mounted height speakers on the SIDES of the room and make sure they are closer to you physically than the front and surround speakers. Do not place them on the front and back walls. I have found that this does a far more effective job of sound envelopment. If you put the heights on the front and back, their sound will actually get lost as they mix with the front and surround speakers radiating sound in the same direction. Remember, even direct sound travels in waves and they will mix together on the way to your ears. Side wall height speakers will give you a much better effect. Generally for good sound envelopment I have found you must mix in different heights, positions and placements. 3. In ceiling or hanging speakers that radiate sound directly downward do not give good sound envelopment because the vertical sound radiation is working against the horizontal sound radiation of your other speakers. It's actually a collision 💥 of sound as opposed to a bubble. At first it seemed cool to me until I realized that it actually muffled some sounds and was more gimmicky than natural sounding. The one exception I found to this is if you can place the speakers wide apart.on the ceiling, again in front of the front and surround speakers and then angle the speakers towards you. This definitely works but I found side wall mounting gives the same envelopment for far less work.
@@ealanosborne Thank you for the overview. If I had seen this video a year before, you would have saved me a lot of trouble figuring this all out! I'm sure many people will find your video of use as they buy new home theater equipment this holiday season!
@@josephjohnson2193 Thanks, Joseph. Try it out, you have nothing to lose. If you don't like it, you can move them back to traditional front and back positions. I personally can't go back. One other note of interest-- I actually got the high side wall mounting idea when I went to see No Time To Die in my local theater and noticed that the height speakers were actually high up on the left and right side walls and not in the ceiling above me.
Oh man! I've been trying to convince myself that my up-firing speakers are doing just fine sitting on top of my Energy fronts. Well, you seriously opened my eyes! Cause here's the kicker… I'm dealing with a GD cathedral ceiling! "Probably" in that 8-9 ft range on the high side but obviously the heights are unmatched. I thought calibrating my Atmos receiver would account for the difference. Probably not. I think they can be mounted on the wall above my TV but it will not be the most aesthetically pleasing visual. I guess there's always cord covers for the wall. Oh well… It's all about the sound, right?
Yeah, man! If you research the Auro 3D setup, you’ll typically have your heights high up on the wall since they should be placed 30 degrees up from your listening position. And if you wanna spend the time, you could snake speaker wire up behind the wall to your heights. Not easy (I’ve personally done it in the past), but worth it in the end, since I think wires up a wall are an eyesore, too. 🤘
I obviously can't speak for everyone as their homes, equipment and setup is different than mine. However, I can say with 100% confidence that I LOVE my Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-140SA Dolby Atmos Speakers. I've been waiting to express my feelings on this but most home theater people tend to dismiss upfiring speakers entirely and recommend in ceiling speakers without any experience with a great upfiring setup; and I believe I have one of those setups! And, yes, I have popcorn ceilings! But I know I will still get downvoted so here it goes... Everyone keeps insisting in-ceiling is the best, but like Andrew Jones said, when it's in the ceiling (one less than 9ft), it's a discrete sound and you know it's speaker-centric. Whereas when you have the upward-firing speakers positioned and EQ'd correctly, it's an immersive ATMOSpheric sound that is independent of any specific speaker, unparalleled in the world of home theater! Movie theaters are an exception because of the huge auditorium with really high ceilings that are lined with speakers so the listener seated far below cannot hear the sound above coming from a specific speaker. This effect is nullified when you're talking about home theaters that have ceilings so much shorter in comparison, therefore the ability to discern the speaker-centric sound is greatly pronounced. I know some will argue that Andrew Jones is just trying to sell his product, therefore his glowing recommendation of them over in-ceiling speakers, but at least check out his explanation in the video below... ua-cam.com/video/KBHDtPu9UJk/v-deo.html In the video, Andrew Jones said: "I got involved in doing an enabled system because of what I heard when Dolby showed it to me. I preferred the sound of the enabled. And it’s interesting since that time as more and more film mixes have been exposed to the enabled type approach. They prefer the enabled sound, because in the theatrical movies and any theater, the speakers are way above you; in a home they’re not. If there’s physical speakers in the ceiling, it’s 7.5 feet to 8 feet typically - it’s a bit too close. And as you move around the listening locations, you’re getting closer to one speaker than the other, the image is shifting, you’re aware of a physical speaker." "From up there with the bounced signal from the enabled, this appears upside down six feet above the ceiling. So the source that you’re aware of, that’s giving you the encoding information to give height, is 6 foot above an 8 foot ceiling and it doesn’t change as you move around. So the soundfield, I think, becomes more immersive, more continuous, maybe not quite as discrete, but the real fun aspect of Atmos is the immersion in the soundfield." Prior to object-based sound like DTS:X and Dolby Atmos, we've always had in-ceiling speakers, and while they're nice and theatrical, it's nothing new. Reflective speakers are the newest addition to home audio and when they're done right, they are completely 360 degree immersive... anyone who hasn't experienced this with enabled speakers is either setting them up wrong, improperly angling them and/or dialing them in ineffectively, don't have a proper acoustically engineered movie or show, or their ceilings are too high to witness the true benefit of them! Every time I play a well done Dolby Atmos or DTS:X movie (e.g., Mad Max Fury Road, The Cloverfield Paradox, Hacksaw Ridge, The Incredible Hulk, etc. 4K UHDs), I am grinning ear to ear in amazement with not just "height effects"... I'm talking 360 degree sound field immersion (and I have popcorn ceilings, which are considered bad for upfiring speakers)! I have a home where speakers were prewired through the walls and I have the ability to go in-ceiling if I really wanted to, but I have no desire to, because what I'm experiencing from upfiring is my complete immersion in the soundfield without being able to pinpoint what speaker it's coming from! This will be eliminated if I go to an in-ceiling installation and that's why I will never do so. For those who have higher ceilings (over 9ft) and a larger room for your theater, it's probably best that you go the in-ceiling route, but for those who have a smaller area to work with, height and length-wise, don't discount enabled, upfiring speakers. Make sure you are dialing them in correctly before dismissing them. Because I can honestly say, if they aren't blowing you away by listening to the object-based effects, then you don't have them set up properly! (Personally, I would never buy the enabled/upfiring drivers built into the Left and Right speakers, only the modules as they may not be properly angled for the correct reflection to your main listening position.) You may need to prop something under the Atmos speakers to get the adequate angle for the reflected sound. Also make sure you close the distance between the speakers and the ceiling (mine are around 3ft from the ceiling). People assume the Atmos-enabled speakers are at the correct angle to reflect sound to their listening position, but that is different for each home theater room. Depending on the height of your ceiling, ceiling obstructions, angle and listening position, the speaker's angle to the ceiling may need to be adjusted accordingly. To determine if it's at the ideal angle, you need to test it with the official Dolby Atmos Reference Demos "Amaze Trailer" and "Leaf Trailer", ensuring that you are hearing a completely filled 360 degree sound stage without any gaps therein. If you are hearing sound coming from where the Atmos speakers are placed when you're in your normal listening position, that is NOT the right angle! You should NOT notice sound coming directly from the Atmos speakers. It should have a height presence to it around the ceiling area that may be more noticeable if you "close your eyes" and listen (if your speakers can't be turned up any louder). If you can't hear much coming from them in the ceiling area, don't be afraid to max out the speaker's volume in the AVR's setup speaker volume in decibels.
We’re in a rental…but we drill, replace, swap, repair, even add walls and new cabinetry. We gave up our deposit in exchange for (very carefully) doing what we need. Of course, we’ve been here 20 years… This video provided more-or-less exactly what we needed. Actual real-world results from different speaker positions = exceptionally useful, time saving information. We used this to decide on Denon x3700 7.2.4 set up. Great job, and thank you!
I’ve got 4 speakers that I mounted on the ceiling. They’re not as far from each other front to back as I’d like them but it still sounds pretty impressive. Especially when a game is in Atmos.
Moved to a new location so setting up our AV system for the first time in this house. We have a avr-X1800 7.1 Denon AVR. Will be using a Definitive Technology Procinema 6D 5.1 speakers with stands for ear level. I have a couple of extra Procinema 800 satellites which I will try mounting on walls near the ceiling for height which is about the only place I can mount height speakers. The living room is quite small and not easy to set up an AV system. The fireplace in the middle of the long wall complicates the setup. Will post how it sounds.
Another point to bear in mind is that for upfiring speakers, Dolby recommends they should be placed no higher than one half (50%) of the height of the ceiling. Looking at the setup you had here in this video, with those particular large towers, it does appear that those Atmos speakers are higher than that recommendation. To compensate for that the only solution is to then adjust the angle of the Atmos speakers (raising the rear of them up) but this then adds other problems as the increased angle towards the listener will make direct sounds more audible in comparison. But yep, thos Atmos speakers are a bit too close to the ceiling for the given ceiling height it seems.
I have to agree with you I hooked atmos speakers on my ceiling last night. They aren't high end or anything they were under £200 (polk) but I was looking for 8 ohm atmos speakers which wasn't easy to find. I would have maybe bought better ones if they were 8 ohm. I had to stick with 8 ohm because of my existing speakers and av receiver. I never even tried the upward firing method. I just don't fancy it and just wanted to put the speakers where they are meant to be. It does sound pretty good to me and got it blending pretty well with my mordaint short mezzo range. This is partially rhe problem for me. I bought these mezzos new with woofer. For me it was a lot to spend and I love those speakers so won't be upgrading all my speakers again for another 8-10 years. But I know the best thing would have been to start from scratch again. I just don't have the kind of money to upgrade everything again so quickly. Anyway I agree with what you said about bouncing those subtle sounds off the ceiling is never going to work.
If you buy actual in ceiling speakers and site them as directed 2ft in front of the listener then the sound will be fantastic. For those who don’t want to cut open the ceiling try building a ceiling box .
I had upward firing built into my speakers, totally disappointed in the results. So I got 4 dali alteco c1 elevation speakers for front/back heights. Wow what a difference, now I can hear atmos affects.
I've done a ton of experimenting myself, but I can't do ceiling mounts. I didn't like high wall mount because I got some harsh reflections. All the upward firing speakers I've tried have not been satisfactory. My best results have been regular 2 way bookshelf speakers angled 20 degrees from vertical with the tweeter closer to the listening position and the crossover as high as your receiver allows. It also matters how far away you sit, if the speaker is too far I think the reflection ends up wasted in front of you. My experience is it didn't work well on the sides either wall or reflection mounted as its too left/right localized. Every speaker I've tried that was built to be upward fired either sounds off due to design, or is very inefficient and room correction never handles them right
This. Except for a few high-end manufacturers such as SVS, most Atmos speakers are actually really quite inferior to regular bookshelf speakers but cost 2 - 3 times as much. I didn't mention it in my own comment above, but after a year of experimenting with ceiling speakers, upward firing topper speakers and angled-wall mounting speakers, I finally ended up doing exactly what you did, Scott -- Using 2 way bookshelf speakers mounted up high on the left and right side walls and angling them downwards and slightly inwards to the listening position. They work beautifully. If you want to save yourself some money and get superior height sound, do exactly what Scott O has done.
I'm running a 5.2.4 atmos system with a denon avr-x4400h and for Atmos I got a pair of SVS prime elevation for the front as height channels and for the back I placed a pair of ELAC A4 atmos modules right on top of my Paradigm surrounds...I got some atmos demos and I can hear sounds from above....but I wonder if I could use a couple of regular bookshelf speakers and mount them on the back wall (about 2.5 metres behind my couch) and if that would give much better results than what I get with the ELAC? I guess I could experiment and hear if that sounds better...The few atmos demos I listened to sounded great but they are optimized for the effect. Many movies with atmos are just not very impressive (but Blade Runner 2049 is amazing! )...anyway...maybe having the 2 SVS elevation at the front is good enough with the ELAC bouncing at the back..can't do much drilling in my apt! Thanks
I have a very unoptimal home theater setup a 20x15 room set up wide not long. It's also the attic of my house so it has sloped ceilings what I've done is I have two Billy tall Ikea bookshelves on either side of the sitting position with a full size 6-in driver speaker on top pointing at the angled wall but then bounces the sound down to the listener. Playing with the angle that it hits that angled ceiling, and the angle of the speaker made for a very nice effect
Hi Ealan, after spending 2 hours testing placements for the best atmos effects using my speakers and I finally found the best solution that you may want to try. My ceiling is 8' hight and I have 2 klipsch reference bookshelf speakers being used a atmos speakers sitting on the top of a two 6' tall bookshelves while having the tv in the middle. I have the speakers tilt toward the ceiling instead of facing where I am sitting and they sound amazing. The problem of having on wall speakers facing my sitting position is that I can tell where the sound is coming from l ( from the front pretty much like 2 stereo speakers sitting high up.) On the other hand, When I have the speakers sitting on top of the selves facing the ceiling at a 20-25 degree angle, the sound blow to the ceiling and it spreads across the room and I feel like the sound is coming from above all over the place. I cannot believe how good it sounds!! It is extremely difficult for the sound from upfiring speakers to bounce off the ceiling when placing them on top of a set of tower speakers, but they work 10x better when they are placed closer to the ceiling since that require a lot less power. Since my wife doesn't want me to have in ceiling speakers, so I planned to mount 4 speakers in the corners of the rooms and make it a 5.1.4 setup, but now I am super happy with my 5.1.2 setup. Note that my room is about 10 feet wide and 16 feet long, I probably would need to mount 2 speakers in the back if my room was bigger.
Awesome! Thanks for all your hard work testing out various scenarios. Glad you found the right setup for your room! As Bill Nye says, “Science rules!,” so kudos to your experimentation! 😁🎉
I completely disagree, have the klipsch 8060 front...the effect is dramatic. Tried several atmos demos discs and I can confirm the sound was clearly coming from above. In the dolby helicopter demo, it you cleary move from back to the front and around, all coming from above. The problems is most forget to bump up the volume of the atmos module a few db, +3 to +6 after doing room correction.
There are so many variables like room size, ceiling height reflection points. The ideal would be overhead when applicable and then second choice being elevation type and lastly upfiring. Mine is an opinion but the reason I say ceiling mount first over elevation type is aesthetics. But I say if you can do any type of Atmos is a winner winner chicken dinner 😁👍
The biggest problem is the movies lack of sound. I've done the same thing as to disconnect everything but the height channels and most movies don't have anything there. Also for up-firing you need a good speaker, a one that hides the mid driver inside so you can't hear it directly. Also the floor standing speakers need to be just above your head so that the up-firing are not visible directly.
One thing I really like about my Kali Audio Atmos setup is that I have the option to use speaker stands for my height channels with the mounting hardware that was included!! Just something to think about for anyone living at a rental that REALLY wants to commit to an Atmos setup. (Disclaimer, this is a music studio setup, but still a neat idea!!)
I agree with your upward firing findings. Especially with only a single pair. I have tried that in my theater room and it was rarely noticeable. I would imaging that having 4 would stand out more because of the panning potential, but I haven’t heard it. I’m starting to feel like you really need to have 4 height channels in any configuration for it to actually be with it. Every 2 height system I’ve tried just seems like a marketing gimmick.
I agree... my brother would make fun of me when I had the 2 atmos speakers (ceiling mounted) saying I had "speaker sickness" lol.. but once I installed the other 2 he immediately said "OK that was pretty awesome.. (I used the intro to kong skull island in both cases)
This is great, Ealan! Thanks for sharing. I plan to setup a 5.1.4 or a 7.1.2 configuration with in ceiling speakers. However, with the renovation i'm planning with my wife to make the living room a little bit cleaner without the ear level standing L-R surround speakers, i need to place my L-R surround speakers using Klipsch CDT-5650-C II on top as well. Not sure if you have tried this but would be great if you could share your insights. Thank you!
I'm going to get 1st Height speakers This week been running 5.1 for ages I Brought Theater Solutions TS30B and Put them high on wall above the TV and Angle down
I agree. My first experience was with up firing Speakers didn’t work for me, so I bought 4 SVS elevation speakers mounted them on the walls recommended by auro, I liked it but wanted more. I redid my room 11 x 13 a small room so mounting them on the ceiling works for both ATMOS/AURO Because the room is so small and I was able to put the ceiling speakers over my floor Speakers and now the configuration works for both.
To get the correct Atmos effect is the outcome of all the components including the visual effects. Sound comes from 8 directions arround 1 direction each from above and the below Below the ear level , at the ear level and above the head all this from the 8 surrounding directions and the above head for the helicopter landing effects
Hi. Interesting comments about up-firing speakers. Wrong lol, but interesting ;) I get sounds coming from the ceiling all the time. I think using timbre matched Dolby speakers built into my Focal speakers and not external Dolby modules helps. I wouldn't recommend them to everyone because there might be too many variables outside of our control, any one of which might derail the whole experience.But they've always sounded great for me, even when I just had 2 speakers. Today I tried TechnoDad's specially mixed Atmos demo and it worked brilliantly with all the height effects directed exactly where he placed them. So well in fact, that I realized that I needed movie my surround heights to surround back heights in order to get the full front to back experience.
Im waiting for my str an1000 to arrive and now Im confused where to place the height channels, in the beginning i just thought i would place them right above my head it was so obvious but now i understand it can be a noob mistake, now after watching many videos Im planning to place two satellites on ceiling front shooting directly towards you, like if you had a an on ceiling 4 speaker configuration, where the front ceiling speakers would be placed, so it might can give you that wall of sound effects with height sensation too, please inwant opinion on this 🙌🏼
Fully agree that the up firing speakers are far less effective than ceiling or front high atmos mounting. But why high end speakers has atmos speakers built-in on the top ?
I don't know what upward firing speakers you're using...but mines work just fine...jets, bullets, rain, helicopters, etc...sound like it's flying over, getting fired from the side or coming downvfrom the ceiling...totally enveloped....oh yeah...Denon and Pioneer upward firing speakers....two in the front...and two in the back....
I just stumbled upon this video while checking on "ideal" placement of Atmos speakers. I got the Klipsch Atmos 41s some time ago, but I just cranked up the gains in my X4400h to correct for the reflecting off the ceiling and I am quite surprised. Just rewatched Independence Day in Atmos and it was very good. I must try Auro 3D since my old Denon supports it...
I never thought upward firing speakers would work as intended. You are better off getting the speakers as high as you can, and angling them down towards you if in ceiling is a no no.
Very Cool Vid, I now have 4 Atmos Channels on my Side Walls because I have a Wooden Ceiling and didnt want to damage it, its cool but there is too much coming from the top. Im now going to do a Ceiling Sail, where I will put 7 In Ceiling speakers and enough absorption, I hope to get then more directional and clear Sound
Ealan, I'm converting a small bedroom into a dedicated front projection HT room. It measures 12.5" x 12.5" x 9. I've heard from some don't do atmos in this room due to how small it is. Or the separation of the atmos speakers wouldn't be big enough. I've decided to install 2 atmos speakers and then maybe decide later to add 2 more. What are your thoughts??
I think Atmos should be fine since you have 9 foot ceilings. But I would invest in a DSP for subwoofer(s) since square rooms can sometimes be a nightmare for bass management. Like those from MiniDSP.
Great video…. I live in a apartment so I have no Choice to go with upfiring speakers. Maybe you can make a video how to run speaker wires for those that live in a apartment and want to hang speakers in the corner wall/ ceiling.
I've got some klipsch floorstanders with thr atmos built in thr top. Sounds as good as thr ones I have up high. They work really well. That well I've taken down my heights and are just using the klipsch . Sounds excellent.
I do have digfferent quite positive experience with Up-firing Atmos spekers . You might try with 4x or 6x up-firing atmos spekers and than reviewe your review and recomendations.
I'd have to agree. I have 5.1.4 and I rent so I have to have up firing Atmos, and in episode 5 of Loki it sounds like thunder is actually coming from the ceiling.
@@technon8 Same here. Just upgraded my AVR to 7.2.6 all 6 Elac Atmos. No need of celing and more convinient to move the furniture around on the go and Atmos that way is still Atmops where it should be. The reviewr here DID NOT MENTION he has ONLY " 2 atmos up-firing speakers of if you see the set up his sofa is againgst the window / wall. In that set up he does not have rear surrounds too. Very bad review. I would not bother to replay if it was not for such and statemnt about something he could not test nor verify.
@@nedywest71 yeah exactly and he was sitting too far away from those two up firing drivers as well. Gotta find that sweet spot where all 4 (or 6 in your case) drivers meet your ears. If your too far forward you'll get only the front Atmos speakers, too far back and only the rears or nothing at all. Gotta sit in the middle.
@@technon8 Position them so that you have an close estimate to yopur sitting posiition of the sound tragetory up and down and Autocalibrate from the AVR. I must say YES if they are too far way than it might not work as supposed to but I am in 5x3meter room with my siiting in the middle . in fronyt is my 65 TV at the back my bed. By the Bed Headrest are my rear suround and pair of Atmos, middle of the bed two surrounds with pair of atmos and in front by the TV on the Floorstanders a pair of atmos. in this set up EVERYTING comes from above :)
@@nedywest71 yeah I have the elevate sound bar and the Vizio OLED TV but it works great for my room. It's about 4 meters by 6 meters. But I will be moving soon so will have to figure it out in my new place.
I recently installed my first front hight speakers, svs prime elevation. Now I am immediately curious about having 4 higt speakers. But I have my back against the wall and I think its called slanted ceilings. The ceiling is about 3.5meters where my hight speakers are placed. The ceiling is about 26*. So witch solution for 4 hights is best? In ceiling is not an option since they wound point away for the listening position. So on ceiling speakers that can be pointed at the listening position or behind the listening position😅💩 I often think about this, and witch kind of speakers I should use.
Yeah, I would still go with on-ceiling pointed at the listening position. Techno Dad did an experiment with 6 heights and came to the conclusion that the middle heights should be as close to straight above you as possible. So the same goes for 4 heights if you’re in a position where you can’t have the rear heights behind your MLP
Hmm, well as right now I only have a soundbar with height effects bouncing off the ceiling, but I will be building out a room in my basement, with in ceiling klipsch speakers, that I think will sound great and add some more dimensionality to my movie watching experience… as opposed to the hit and miss of the bouncing sound off of the ceiling…
And of course, this came out AFTER I bought the R-625fa pair. (This is life though) Definitely selling them to give more options, as the apt I am moving to has a 2ft higher ceiling. This particular apt will actually allow for mounting of speakers and tv! Thank you a ton for sharing your experiments and results!
You are asking the important questions! Will you be having other videos coming out that test speaker placement like this? Also, I didn't know Auro 3D existed. Will you do a video comparing that to Atmos?
Thanks, just got my height speakers and had them placed BEHIND the TV to fire up.... with 9 foot ceiling I am also not sold.... might put these in top corners of room.... fun to experiment. In end the wife will decide what is acceptable speaker visibility ;-)
I am planning to upgrade from 7.1 to 9.1, but not sure where to place the atmos speakers. Above fr and fl or above surr l and surr r. Also now i may need to think of even upgrading to 5.1.4 with auro 3d because i am in europe and can take advantage of it.
I've personally just begun my journey of home cinema audio upgrades and am now at a 5.1 System. I wanted to eventually add height channels to it (once I figure out how to support it software) and thanks to you I now know that up firing speakers won't cut it.
They do, but it depends on your room and speaker placement. Upward-firing speakers sound more diffuse. If you can't get ceiling speakers but want height channels, going with 4 up-firing speakers is still preferable to basic 5.1.
With the upwards firing did you up the volume/output in the AVR? Most AVR's have very limited output to channels outside of the L/R main channels, and even Center Channel can get the short end sometimes, and the more channels you have the output continues to get more divided. Almost all manufactures claim X Watts per channel, but the reality is that X watts for L&R, Y watts for center, and Z Watts for everything else. I also dont think most top firing channels are designed with efficacy in mind esp since the enclosures for them are so tiny, a bulk of it really high mid-higher frequencies and the woofers will play something... just not a lot, so to compensate you need to add more power to drive them harder to increase output.
Yeah, ideally you’ll want to power your heights with an external amp. But to answer your question, yes - I basically turned up the volume to max on the heights specifically. Still wasn’t impressed. 🤷♂️
Thank you for the video which is informative, but I still don't understand what is better for my setup. Like you said, everyone's setup room size, is different. My room size is 12'9" deep x 10'2" wide (because it is actually 12'9" wide too, however the open closet area is not a concession area with cabinets, popcorn machine, etc. I have an Onkyo TX-SR494 which is a 5.1.2 receiver. I have Warfendale front L/R speakers sitting on the floor with the Warfendale center speaker in the middle of the 86" LG LED TV on a media stand. I am using a Polk Audio Subwoofer PSW108. Waiting on a split subwoofer cable at the moment. I have almost no room for the surround speakers as there is only 2' of space on each side due to having a 2 seat recliner theater chairs with a spacer in the middle of those. The speaker stands are also so low that they are not even able to get up to ear height, so I think they are useless. The surround speakers are Polk Audio model T15's. Due to room space limitations, there is no "Center" position to calibrate the room to, so my thought is that I need to calibrate it to (when I get all the speakers mounted in their right positions) the point in the middle of the chair area by placing the reference mic at the top of the middle seat...., which would not seem to be in the best interest of either seat listener. Am I wrong? Also, what would be my best location for the surrounds and height speakers in this particular scenario? You may need to actually see the space but it is quite simple really.... just small. Because I need a space behind the seating for my computer system (room used to be my office), my seating is placed only4'8" away from front wall. The head position is at 7'0" from the front wall. That seems to be a bit close, but actually isn't too bad. However there is no room on the left side (facing seating from TV) because the concession area is the entire closet area, and on the right side there is only 2' to the wall. Placing side speakers is not an option. So, my question to you about that is "should they be ceiling mounted" and the height speakers be wall mounted to the front wall above the front L/R speakers? Sorry about the short novel, but I don't know how else to explain my serious issue, I am stuck. Please help me the best you can. Thank you in advance.
I know I'm behind the times, but I've been enjoying my 5.1 THX certified Atlantic Technology speakers since I purchased them new since the late 1990'a when AT was all the rage. I'm now looking to buy my fourth AVR to power these speakers, and for fun, I picked up the Klipsch Reference Cinema 5.1.4 package (for $250 I had to play with it) and now I'm looking for a 9 channel receiver :) The addiction never ceases. Long story, but I actually have two sets of my Atlantic Technology speakers, sans subwoofers so I am thinking if I wanted to "upgrade" the Klipsch speakers I could use the extra Atlantic Technology speakers to build out a full 5.1.4 system. The rear Atlantic Technology speakers feature spatially-enhanced di-pole speakers with two 3.5" polypropylenes offset to the sides, with a center 4" polypropylene driver. They're all mid-range drivers in a sealed MDF box with a frequency response of 50Hz - 12.5kHz. Would these di-pole speakers work as Dolby Atmos (and DTS:X) height speakers?
Wow! Thanks for your home theater history! 🎉 And yeah, I would probably advise NOT to have dipoles as height speakers, just because they’re meant to create a cube of sound. So having dipole speakers would probably throw off the precise placement of audio objects within 3D space. You can get away with dipoles either as surrounds or surround backs, but heights are a different story. 😁🙌
@@ealanosborne Thanks, that makes sense. I may end up using a second pair of the Atlantic Tech front speakers for the front height effect speakers, and mount them horizontally like a center channel (easier/safer to mount) and it would spread out the sound-field. They have two 4" midrange drivers and a dome tweeter, rated at 10-150W, with a frequency response of 50Hz-20kHz. The rear of my room is [unfortunately] relegated to speaker stands only positioned behind the listening area. Fine for a 5.1 system, but limits height effect options, so I may end up using a pair of the Klipsch Reference Cinema Atmos speakers with their upward firing components for the rears surround and height effects and keep the ATs everywhere else. Not ideal, and I realize you're not a big fan of the upward firing Atmos speakers, but it's better than nothing(?), and if the fronts are mounted on the ceiling, I think it would work, even if not representing a level height effects playing field. BTW my first HT setup was a Pioneer Dolby Pro Logic Surround AVR with a Pioneer Laser Disc, it was the bomb back in the 80's! Star Wars (any of the original trio) were great on Laser Disc, actually I should say laser discs, as it took several double sided discs per movie. Blade Runner was great on laser disc, and there were several directors cut or laser disc only special edition/content discs. Now we collect 4K BluRay or just download/stream it :) Thanks again, I've been really enjoying your channel!!
In your vids you mention that upward firing drivers are mostly ineffective with ceilings higher than 8 feet. Can you compensate for taller ceilings by increasing the volume level of those drivers?
To some degree, you can, but it’s still not ideal. Although I understand there are a lot of people out there who can’t mount or install speakers up high for various reasons. Do the best with your circumstances, really. 👍
Hey Osborne. You previously help me set up my entire home theater thus far. Denon AVR 6700, Costco Klipsche reference surround sound speakers, and of course your awesomeness recommendation of two SVS pro 1000 subs. Now it’s time to move on to in ceiling speakers and I’m looking at the Klipsch PRO-18RC Professional Series In-Ceiling Speakers, on sale right now from $499 each to now $271.85. I know you’re super busy but would you please tell me your thoughts on this speaker? Or what speakers you recommend? Thanks for your time brother and keep up the great videos
I really enjoyed your video! Atmos is such a quirky experience. This is coming from an old guy that bought one of the first dolby pro logic amps back in the early 90's. I think it was 1994, yamaha pro logic. fitted to a 21 inch TV, lol. Suffice it to say that i have moved through the technology as it has happened and can honestly say Atmos is my favorite upgrade so far (but not always). Ghost inthe Shell is one of my favorite Atmos soundtracks. I have forward firirng atmos speakers and find those to do an excellent job. I have no other frame of reference (other than a proper cinema) but for c onvenienc e etc, that fornt firing do a great job. Thanks for the video and continued success for your channnel.
Mounted on upper wall front + side positions are the simple way , to enjoy Dolby Atmos 's experience 🔊 🎼🎶
The problem with 90% of upward firing speakers is their design. Dolby limits their bandwidth vs the crossover, to promote beaming, and avoid direct sound to the listener. Its not an effective design. A better solution is for the speakers to be angled, but recessed in the box with acoustic lining. This does a much better job of reducing direct sound, and isolating the reflected sound. Also how one angles them is crucial to insuring the reflected sound even reaches the seating position. The best method is to use a helper with a ladder, who places a mirror on the ceiling where the listener can see the speaker from their normal seating position. Once accomplished, the listener then goes over to the upward firing speaker and angles the speaker so it aims directly at the mirror. A small flashlight or laser pointer is helpful. The height of the ceiling is less important than the angling, as the room correction software will set the appropriate output for all speakers, including upward firing ones. The only off-the-shelf, upward firing Atmos speakers, I would recommend are the Atlantic Technology 44-DAs and the PSB Imagine XA Atmos enabled
I have some Klipsch tower speakers that have Atmos speakers in the top, and they are recessed and angled internally but you can't tell without removing the covers.
That’s interesting. I did something in that idea but in a budget/patchwork kind of way. After selling off all my Paradigm speakers I went with Hsu Research across the front, as well as the sub. Just to get the 4-7 speakers going I got 4 Polk T-15’s to put on the walls. Before I got around to replacing them I became unhappy with the Hsu speakers and replaced them with Klipsch RP across the front. But I’m still unhappy with speakers 6+7 so, a couple of weeks ago, I decided to try them in an Atmos position and re-assign them to “height”. I wasn’t that interested in height prior to this as I first had Paradigm Atom speakers in this position over 20 years ago with my Yamaha 3200, which had outputs called, oddly enough, “height”. Unimpressed, I was. Anyway, I got a couple of small wall shelves at Lowes, installed them above head level (while seated) on either side of the TV, moved 6&7 to the shelves in the horizontal position and propped up the backs with a length of 2”x2” for, oh, let’s call it 30° angle. Purists out there are retching and fainting right about now but the results were quite impressive. I’m just about to start experimenting with the volume levels. Will I decide I need dedicated design height speakers? Small sample test size at this point but I kind of doubt it. The T-15’s project well and I see no pressing reason to replace them (more gasps from the purists)…at this time. We’ll see.
Oh, and I’m not sure why Dolby seems to get all the credit for “height”. Yamaha had it in a receiver (probably) designed in the 90’s and, with a limited number of Atmos enabled disks available I just keep the DTS:X button pressed on my Marantz receiver. So I get some effect on everything, even the AAC audio rips, I mean “backups”, I keep on hard drive.
Anyway, it’s a good suggestion to at least experiment with speakers on hand before diving in. You can, at least, get an idea if the concept works for you without buying speakers.
You need to increase your level output for your Atmos enabled speakers. If they are only +1 db it isn’t loud enough
I've downfiring speakers, similar distance away from everything else. I've my heights +7db higher. Blends well. Even my yamaha reciever, put them at +6 on auto calibration.
Definitely, don't be scared to raise their volume if the effect isn't hitting you!
Suprised he didn't talk about this in the video
@@tatsumaru12345 hi. I have 2x focal 826d front and 2x 826d rear, and i love the experience
@@wazup3333 he did mention this near the end
Use the speaker balancing app on the receiver using the included microphone…
This is critical for a Dolby set up.
If you haven’t… your listening experience, while interesting, isn’t Dolby.
You will over drive your speakers… by a lot.
After all you bought them to ‘hear’ them! Right?
I would think upfiring would cause a bunch of issues interfering with the other speakers. I'd also think you would have some latency with the added distance.
If you run the automatic setup that comes with most modern surround sound amps, it should adjust the time delay to accomodate the speakers position, distance and how long the audio takes to reach the microphone. Latency should not be an issue.
Thanks for this video. I have Klipsch up-firing speakers on my towers for years (5.2.2). Thought is was ok, but nothing great. Can't do in ceiling speakers, but after watching you video, I moved the up-firing to Front presence height location (8' ceiling). Absolutely huge difference in my room. on ATMOS tracks I actually can sense the sound is coming overhead.
Awesome!!! Glad this helped! And thanks for your kind words! 😁🤘
I agree just upgraded to Dolby Atmos and go the Upward Firing Speakers you put on top of the Tower Speakers. It just made the Tower Speaker sound better..
Excellent Ealan! I've been looking for while now for someone to talk about this topic and I think you're the only one. Thanks for the great content! Keep it up! 👍
Me too.
I actually built speaker boxes for "in-wall/ceiling" speakers, and successfully stud-mounted them to my ceiling in a unique manner. Ceiling speakers have always been a priority even when thinking Atmos early on. And I did this for the first FOUR, and down the line I'm going to get it to SIX. Little bits at a time for now.
How deep did your boxes have to be??
@@josephjohnson2193 ... for mine, the width of a 1x4. Then I mounted the frame on like a 1x12
Is there any way to see pics ? Thanks
If you can't hear the upfiring atmos speakers being reflected off a flat ceiling at that height then it is because you're suppose to configure your HT receiver so that it knows that you are using up-firing so it can set the audio levels and time delays properly. It helps if you have a decent quality receiver that has room correction software built-in and can connect a mic so that it can be done automatically. But in saying that it still isn't going to be as good as direct sound.
I went with the 3.1.2. Atmos speakers at the side walls next to couch and it definitely works. I like that more than front heights
What's your AVR
@@averagestudent4358 Well now I have a Denon 3800H with a 7.3.4 set up in the same space. Condo living room.
I live in a pretty small apartment, and I have my home theatre in my bedroom. So space is really tiny. so I stacked up boxes to put my height speakers on the side up to the ceiling (pretty short ceilings) and it works very well considering that I'm running 5.1.2. I didn't even bother trying upward firing as I heard it wasn't the best.
Like some of the other commenters said, did you play around with the volume setting for the upward firing speakers? In most of the autocalibration I did, the receiver boosts the volume for the atmos speakers by 3-6 dBs. Also noticed that your ceiling is not quite flat, so could be a lot of scattered reflection which reduces the sound going into your ears. But this could be just the quality of your video that made the ceiling look halfway between a flat ceiling and a popcorn ceiling.
My experience with upwards firing speakers is excellent! I have 7.1.2 setup, with front speakers (and upwards speakers) from Definitive Technologies 9060 series, and KEF T301 as surround speakers, connected to Denon X6700H AVR, thoroughly calibrated with Audyssey. While most movies hardly have much going on “up there”, in video games, like Cyberpunk 2077 the effect is insane! Aircraft and monorail trains flying overhead, someone shooting at me from up above etc. My favorite test is to find music source blasting from one of the shops on the streets of Night City, approach them - and you can pinpoint the exact source of the sound above you.
Cyberpunk has great atmos!!
thanks for info. I will play Cyberpunk :)
You hit the nail on the head. Dolby killed Atmos for movies with their anti-consumer crap; it's only worth using for fake sound processing, like video games.
this is why I have upfiring speakers in my game room in a 5.1.2 setup. In my theater I have 7.2.4 with my atmos speakers all in ceiling with tweeters aimed at the main listening position.
This just got me excited to play the new Cyberpunk DLC. I might have to upgrade my receiver and get the speakers before that!
Upfirers can work... but in my experience, the auto-cal in AVRs almost never gets the distance/delay right. Some AVRs have a separate setting for you to manually set distance from the upfirer to the ceiling, but even then, you basically have to put on a good Atmos demo clip and tweak distances until you hear it snap into place. I think that's why most people end up thinking they just don't work at all.
That said, you're still right. They should be the last resort.
Hi, do you have a good example clip for me. THX
right...what's the proper way to measure the distance/delay of the atmos modules? is it to measure first from the atmos module to the ceiling and then ADD the distance from the ceiling to the listener? Thanks
@@TheFandangovideoguy It depends. If you have a newer AVR that has the parameter you can adjust to tell it the distance from your upfirer to the ceiling, it does simple math to calculate the delay based on what the third side of that triangle would be (with one side being upfirer to ceiling and the other being the direct path from MLP to the upfirer, which is what your auto-cal detects).
If you have an older AVR, it's a crapshoot. They were typically pre-set to an expected 8 foot ceiling height expectation with the upfirers roughly just above typical seated ear level (39 inches, if I recall). So at that point, I found that the best result was to just measure from the upfirer to where it points on the ceiling and then down from that point to the MLP.
@@TheReverendSlim you are math wizard! I have a Denon AVR-4400h...a good one...so I guess the AVR doesn't calculate the real distance from the atmos bouncing module to the MLP...I'll take a look a t the manual and see what distance to enter...it doesn't sound bad as it is...maybe it could be better. Thanks
@@TheFandangovideoguy If you're using upfirers on the 4400, go to the distance section under manual speaker setup. At the bottom, it will have a dolby settings part that will let you adjust the distance from the upfirer to the ceiling.
I'm not disputing your findings with the room and speakers you used, but I have Focal Sib Evo with built-in purpose designed Atmos upfiring speakers and they really work in my living room. Where they lose out is in accurate positioning of the sounds front to rear, but overhead effects genuinely sound like they are overhead. In-ceiling speakers aren't an option for my room, but I have previously tried speakers in various other positions. Up high on the front, but set as front height in my AVR, and they added little to height and no sense of overhead at all. I tried the test you did with all other speakers disconnected and with every movie I tried they pretty much never made a sound. Also ran with them up on the side walls and they were more active in that position, but also never really sounded overhead and it was too easy to localise the sound as coming from a specific speaker. The upfiring are easily the best experience, really filling out the soundstage and adding more height to the front than the physical front speakers did. It doesn't hurt that this is the cleanest setup also with no wires running up the walls.
I have two Klipsch RP500SA's on adjustable speakers stands behind my 65inch Sony Z9D. Their faceplate are 3 feet away from my 8 feet flat ceiling. Both speakers set several DB's higher than bed level speakers. Awesome upFiring Atmos performance. I also have two Focal Evo upFiring as rear. Set their DB levels much higher than bed level speakers. Thus I'm running 5.1.4. My setup Atmos's sounds is so Amazing... Heights or inCeiling is not needed by me. I also have high end SVS Subs. I love SVS. I've been to high end Home Theater Demo rooms. I took my best 4K Atmos Blu Ray there to demo inCeiling Atmos.
So my 5.1.4 Atmos decision was much thought out with careful Atmos sound listening and proper setup. Proper Atmos speakers DB levels calibration.
My upfiring atmos speakers are 3 feet from the ceiling. They sound great. I prefer not to know where the sound is coming from when watching movies. It's too distracting and I lose my concentration on the movie story line.
i've been trying to decide if i wanted to move my atmos speakers from upward firing to wall mounting behind my tv... you just sold me because i've been feeling the same way about having them upward firing. thanks for the video!
Sweet! You’re welcome, Joshua! 🤘
Great Video, I would just add when I first got the Klipsch 5.1.2 set up with the built in atmos speakers I did A/B testing not with the atmos modules alone but with and without them in the whole set up. While the pinpoint location possible with overhead set ups wasn't there, in my room with my set up, the upward firing speakers did add the 'environmental' immersion with reverb and sound effects that had me forgetting I was supposed to be doing a comparison and sucked me right into the scene every time.
Exactly. That’s why I wanted to stress that upward firing isn’t completely worthless, just not the absolutely best option out there. Gotta do the best you can with what you already have! 🤘
I use onkyo upfiring Atmos speakers.
1 feet lower than the ceiling pointing to the ceiling angled to the listener .
They work super fine. Please try and you will see how the sound bounces from the ceiling and widens the listening effects
You can ALWAYS add a secondary ceiling. Which is the most beneficial for sound and running new wiring plus the added eye glory of the speakers being hidden....
Thank you for the description of what you should expect to actually hear given the different positions. Most people don’t explain it as well thank you.
You’re welcome! And thanks for the kind words. 😊🎉
That's why I purchased a Bose 900 about a year ago and their height channels and rear jewel surrounds speakers are a Beast. I have 12foot ceilings and you hear and feel it all even if the content not in Atmos.
NICE! 🎉
After a bunch of experimentation (at least in my Man Cave), I found that making a wood baffle to the tilted Atmos speaker on top of the main stereo mains works very well. A three-sided piece of 1/4" plywood stuck on the speaker on listening side of angled speaker with double-sided tape. Essentially, the key is blocking the direct sound path to the listening ear from the Atmos speaker is key. Audessey, equalizing really made it zone in on a great sound experience. Point is...every room is different and fun to to try out what is best for you.
Excellent experimentation, my friend! 🤘
For upward-firing speakers, what he didn't mention is if he actually tried every possibly setting - adjusting the proper height, cross-over, volume, etc. Some people swear by them (when configured correctly).
I'm experimenting with a 5th option (up-fire, on-wall). I have up-firing Polk XT-90s and found them to be lacking when placed on top of my fronts/rears. I completely agree with your findings... too lossy with the extra distance this creates and they mostly get lost.
I have wall mount brackets in the corners of my room (front and back about 1.5' from ceiling), I'm trying out placing them into the brackets but not pointing them directly at me, leaving them pointing up towards the ceiling at 45 degrees. That way, the sound from each "fills" the corners of the room with less directional effect. Still too soon to tell if this is better than placing them pointing directly with those brackets, but so far so good and I like it.
Experimenting is key! 🔑🎉
I have the Pioneer add on Atmos module speakers for the front and rear speakers, and I also barely heard anything coming from the height channels when I placed them on top on the main speakers, so I decided to mount the Atmos speakers to the ceiling and it made all the difference in the world. I can easily hear Atmos in a good mix and makes the movie soundtrack totally immersive!
I have a Marantz 8802a and updated it to Auro 3D capability. I purchased a few Blu-Ray discs with Auro 3D, and originally set up the Marantz for 7.1.4 Auro 3D configuration. However, speaker placement wasn’t optimized for Auro 3D, but was compatible for Auro 3D and Atmos. Result: Auro 3D wasn’t a dramatic difference from Dolby Atmos, and the price for Auro 3D software wasn’t justified. Since Atmos is prevalent here in the US, I decided recalibrate the Marantz for Atmos. Also, when I had the system optimized for Auro 3D, the front and rear Height Channels didn’t independently produce sound from the LH and RH, rather they both created the same pink noise signal at the same time using an Atmos disc. Furthermore, only the front height speakers were engaged producing any Atmos effects. The Rear Atmos channels were never used.
When I recalibrated the system for Atmos, I got back the LH and RH channels on both the front and back Height Channels. Watching in Atmos is more immersive with all speakers engaged.
My impressions: Auro 3D sounds similar to Atmos with Auro 3D content, but due to system configuration with Auro, you may not get 7.1.4 with Atmos soundtracks. On the other hand, you do get better overall enveloping sound from the Auro 3D up mixer. It gives a natural sound field for non Auro 3D or 2.0, 5.1 and 7.1 material. Unfortunately, once configuring the Marantz back to Atmos, I lose a few Auro 3D effects options. Btw, Atmos is based on Auro 3D, but due to copyright issues, Dolby changed the speaker placement for their design. AURO 3D uses DTS as their codec to carry Auro 3D information, while Dolby uses Dolby TrueHD 7.1 at the core plus metadata to extend capabilities for Atmos.
Wow! Thanks for your detailed insight! 🤘
I am running a Marantz with the Pioneer up firing in the front. I am going to switch to the SVS prime atmos speakers and mount them to the front ceiling. I was trying to avoid drilling holes into the ceiling and I do not want to cut speaker holes.
So which is better to use?
Lighting. Great presentation, sound is ok, you just have to get a backlight on you to separate you from the wall. And a side fill light too (a white card will work perfect)
I found that if you increase the volume of the up firing speakers it makes a huge difference and it did actually sound like it was coming from the ceiling it was truly impressive that was with about 8 foot ceiling I also found tilting the speakers so the sound reached you also helps
My new house ha higher ceiling so will need to see if it’s the same
Imagine a 32.4.16 speaker system?
Unless you have a large seating area with multiple people this would be useless. Properly setup 5.2.4 or 7.2.4 in a large living room gives you 360° coverage
Regardless how much you increase the volume of up firing speakers (dolby atmos enabled) you will never get close to the effect of ceiling speaker. Tried it myself. There is one exception: If your existing 5.1 setup (especially with good/bad placed or poor SR speakers) isn't that good, the effect might be ok, since you didn't have great effects in the first place.
Things a LOT of people don't factor in when it comes to ATMOS speakers: Speaker drive size and dispersion pattern.
You set up top front speakers for Atmos but you are using speakers with 3 or 4-inch woofers and a 1 inch or smaller tweeter. Your seating position is 10 - 12 feet away from the speakers.
By the time the sound from your top fronts gets to your ears, the SPL has been reduced by 10 dB or more due to sound cancellation and bad acoustics.
The correct speaker you should be using is one with a 10-inch driver and a 1.5 - 2 inch compression driver with at least 100 watts of power for the TOP fronts to work for Atmos.
Some Angled atmos top angle speakers have 10 inch drivers? What is the brand for those?
Loved the idea of the wall of sound. And compatible with DTS-X, and Auro-3D I mounted them on wall. But.... now I heard that seperation is most important and you shouldn't go lower than 45 degrees on your front heights.... So overthinking of mounting them higher to get that 45 degrees. My listening position is about 4 mtr from the screen and my ceiling is 4.25m high so I can get that angle
When mounting my heights in my testing theater I built last year, I went with Auro 3D’s specs, mounting them at 30 degrees. I personally think it does better with binaural hearing (since we have two ears on either side of our heads) making height effects more noticeable. It’s science, baby! 😁
You have to calculate the algorithmic scale for reflecting of the ceiling..as NORMAL atmos is made for speakers IN the ceiling...If you want reflective sound to come anywhere near that experience you'll have to add at least 4 to 6db to the volume of the atmos channels...
How do You do this? Got the samsung q800A and I putted the upfiring on 6, is there anyway to increase this more?
@@savitarr1162 I don't know, you might get the same "effect" by lowering the level on all the other speakers and turning up the volume. But i don't know when it will start distorting. That might be worth a try. so leave the upfiring at six and lower everything else by 2 or so and turn up the volume a bit and see if there is a difference..
@@justkiddin1980 do the rear/upfiring speakers get louder when You turn on the volume? This sound bar is so loud I never put higher then volume 12-13, maybe thats a reason I dont realy hear sound from above
@@savitarr1162 Okay so its a "soundbar" yeah good luck with that..The solution with a soundbar is never ideal and might never work like you want it to. I thought it was a normal homecinema system you were talking about. All soundbars have limitations and you might never really get the effect you're trying to create i am sorry to say.
Wonderful content.
Have 3 pair of Atmos speakers.
Klipsch r 41sa
Klipsch rp 500sa
SVS Prime Elevation
Going to try the side wall placement for my Elevation pair.
Hell yeah! Do it for the science! 🔬😄
Do the side walls. You'll find the height effects and immersion much better as I did. Enjoy!
4 height speakers. I divided the 180 degrees from base layer in front and base layer in back into 3 x 60 degrees. So overhead pans should be having no gaps in time. Same for base layer, trying to keep angles the same as possible.
Thank you for saving me the time and expense of moving forward with purchasing upward firing speakers. My only placement option, at this time, would be flanking my center speaker on my entertainment center. This less than optimal positioning would not have been close to satisfactory.
Really cool calm monologue. Been considering whether to invest in some upward firing speakers, this has given me some food for thought. Thanks. And you’re right, once you begin the home theatre journey, you can’t stop…
did you try raising the volume on the channel for the upwards-firing setup?
Sure did!
Very true...it is hard to stop. Kinda wish I never started
And specifically birds chirping etc were heard above it was amazing
It may just be your ceiling doesn’t bounce the sound and I as just lucky and may not be lucky in my new house
I'm used starting a 300USD AVR+speaker set for 7 years and just getting my first Dolby atmos setup today but I have to manage and clear some stuff in my room first lmao.
And my budget was not enough so I take the Yamaha RX-A4A because of the price and took almost the budget into 5.2.2 set up with Klipsch. After doing some research I think I have a plan to go for 7.2.4 in the future. But for now.. This is my first time Atmos experience I'm still excited to experiment with upward firing and on the wall for soon.
Excellent overview. Having tried all 3 methods with 2 and 4 height speakers 🔊, my thoughts are as follows:
1. Use 4 height speakers if you can. The sound pans more accurately and gives you an actual sense of movement.
2. SVS is right -- place your wall mounted height speakers on the SIDES of the room and make sure they are closer to you physically than the front and surround speakers. Do not place them on the front and back walls. I have found that this does a far more effective job of sound envelopment. If you put the heights on the front and back, their sound will actually get lost as they mix with the front and surround speakers radiating sound in the same direction. Remember, even direct sound travels in waves and they will mix together on the way to your ears. Side wall height speakers will give you a much better effect. Generally for good sound envelopment I have found you must mix in different heights, positions and placements.
3. In ceiling or hanging speakers that radiate sound directly downward do not give good sound envelopment because the vertical sound radiation is working against the horizontal sound radiation of your other speakers. It's actually a collision 💥 of sound as opposed to a bubble. At first it seemed cool to me until I realized that it actually muffled some sounds and was more gimmicky than natural sounding. The one exception I found to this is if you can place the speakers wide apart.on the ceiling, again in front of the front and surround speakers and then angle the speakers towards you. This definitely works but I found side wall mounting gives the same envelopment for far less work.
Dang! Thanks for your detailed insight! 🤘🎉
@@ealanosborne Thank you for the overview. If I had seen this video a year before, you would have saved me a lot of trouble figuring this all out! I'm sure many people will find your video of use as they buy new home theater equipment this holiday season!
I scrolled through all these comments to find this thinking. I'm fascinated by the side mounting idea.
@@josephjohnson2193 Thanks, Joseph. Try it out, you have nothing to lose. If you don't like it, you can move them back to traditional front and back positions. I personally can't go back.
One other note of interest-- I actually got the high side wall mounting idea when I went to see No Time To Die in my local theater and noticed that the height speakers were actually high up on the left and right side walls and not in the ceiling above me.
Amazing comment. I'm thinking about buying a Marantz and fix 7.1.2. is there an option for side mounted Atmos speakers in the receiver?
You're up there with the best YT commentators on these subjects... Keep it up, Ealan!
Thanks, Adrian! 🤘
What’s the white mounting tape you used in this video?
Heavy duty Velcro! Any hardware store should have it. 🤘
If you can't mount mount speakers to walls or into ceilings maybe try some tall speaker stands for your hight speakers or hanging ceiling mounts
Oh man! I've been trying to convince myself that my up-firing speakers are doing just fine sitting on top of my Energy fronts. Well, you seriously opened my eyes! Cause here's the kicker… I'm dealing with a GD cathedral ceiling! "Probably" in that 8-9 ft range on the high side but obviously the heights are unmatched. I thought calibrating my Atmos receiver would account for the difference. Probably not.
I think they can be mounted on the wall above my TV but it will not be the most aesthetically pleasing visual. I guess there's always cord covers for the wall.
Oh well… It's all about the sound, right?
Yeah, man! If you research the Auro 3D setup, you’ll typically have your heights high up on the wall since they should be placed 30 degrees up from your listening position. And if you wanna spend the time, you could snake speaker wire up behind the wall to your heights. Not easy (I’ve personally done it in the past), but worth it in the end, since I think wires up a wall are an eyesore, too. 🤘
I obviously can't speak for everyone as their homes, equipment and setup is different than mine. However, I can say with 100% confidence that I LOVE my Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-140SA Dolby Atmos Speakers.
I've been waiting to express my feelings on this but most home theater people tend to dismiss upfiring speakers entirely and recommend in ceiling speakers without any experience with a great upfiring setup; and I believe I have one of those setups! And, yes, I have popcorn ceilings! But I know I will still get downvoted so here it goes...
Everyone keeps insisting in-ceiling is the best, but like Andrew Jones said, when it's in the ceiling (one less than 9ft), it's a discrete sound and you know it's speaker-centric. Whereas when you have the upward-firing speakers positioned and EQ'd correctly, it's an immersive ATMOSpheric sound that is independent of any specific speaker, unparalleled in the world of home theater!
Movie theaters are an exception because of the huge auditorium with really high ceilings that are lined with speakers so the listener seated far below cannot hear the sound above coming from a specific speaker. This effect is nullified when you're talking about home theaters that have ceilings so much shorter in comparison, therefore the ability to discern the speaker-centric sound is greatly pronounced. I know some will argue that Andrew Jones is just trying to sell his product, therefore his glowing recommendation of them over in-ceiling speakers, but at least check out his explanation in the video below...
ua-cam.com/video/KBHDtPu9UJk/v-deo.html
In the video, Andrew Jones said:
"I got involved in doing an enabled system because of what I heard when Dolby showed it to me. I preferred the sound of the enabled. And it’s interesting since that time as more and more film mixes have been exposed to the enabled type approach. They prefer the enabled sound, because in the theatrical movies and any theater, the speakers are way above you; in a home they’re not. If there’s physical speakers in the ceiling, it’s 7.5 feet to 8 feet typically - it’s a bit too close. And as you move around the listening locations, you’re getting closer to one speaker than the other, the image is shifting, you’re aware of a physical speaker."
"From up there with the bounced signal from the enabled, this appears upside down six feet above the ceiling. So the source that you’re aware of, that’s giving you the encoding information to give height, is 6 foot above an 8 foot ceiling and it doesn’t change as you move around. So the soundfield, I think, becomes more immersive, more continuous, maybe not quite as discrete, but the real fun aspect of Atmos is the immersion in the soundfield."
Prior to object-based sound like DTS:X and Dolby Atmos, we've always had in-ceiling speakers, and while they're nice and theatrical, it's nothing new. Reflective speakers are the newest addition to home audio and when they're done right, they are completely 360 degree immersive... anyone who hasn't experienced this with enabled speakers is either setting them up wrong, improperly angling them and/or dialing them in ineffectively, don't have a proper acoustically engineered movie or show, or their ceilings are too high to witness the true benefit of them!
Every time I play a well done Dolby Atmos or DTS:X movie (e.g., Mad Max Fury Road, The Cloverfield Paradox, Hacksaw Ridge, The Incredible Hulk, etc. 4K UHDs), I am grinning ear to ear in amazement with not just "height effects"... I'm talking 360 degree sound field immersion (and I have popcorn ceilings, which are considered bad for upfiring speakers)! I have a home where speakers were prewired through the walls and I have the ability to go in-ceiling if I really wanted to, but I have no desire to, because what I'm experiencing from upfiring is my complete immersion in the soundfield without being able to pinpoint what speaker it's coming from! This will be eliminated if I go to an in-ceiling installation and that's why I will never do so.
For those who have higher ceilings (over 9ft) and a larger room for your theater, it's probably best that you go the in-ceiling route, but for those who have a smaller area to work with, height and length-wise, don't discount enabled, upfiring speakers. Make sure you are dialing them in correctly before dismissing them. Because I can honestly say, if they aren't blowing you away by listening to the object-based effects, then you don't have them set up properly! (Personally, I would never buy the enabled/upfiring drivers built into the Left and Right speakers, only the modules as they may not be properly angled for the correct reflection to your main listening position.)
You may need to prop something under the Atmos speakers to get the adequate angle for the reflected sound. Also make sure you close the distance between the speakers and the ceiling (mine are around 3ft from the ceiling). People assume the Atmos-enabled speakers are at the correct angle to reflect sound to their listening position, but that is different for each home theater room. Depending on the height of your ceiling, ceiling obstructions, angle and listening position, the speaker's angle to the ceiling may need to be adjusted accordingly. To determine if it's at the ideal angle, you need to test it with the official Dolby Atmos Reference Demos "Amaze Trailer" and "Leaf Trailer", ensuring that you are hearing a completely filled 360 degree sound stage without any gaps therein.
If you are hearing sound coming from where the Atmos speakers are placed when you're in your normal listening position, that is NOT the right angle! You should NOT notice sound coming directly from the Atmos speakers. It should have a height presence to it around the ceiling area that may be more noticeable if you "close your eyes" and listen (if your speakers can't be turned up any louder). If you can't hear much coming from them in the ceiling area, don't be afraid to max out the speaker's volume in the AVR's setup speaker volume in decibels.
We’re in a rental…but we drill, replace, swap, repair, even add walls and new cabinetry. We gave up our deposit in exchange for (very carefully) doing what we need. Of course, we’ve been here 20 years…
This video provided more-or-less exactly what we needed. Actual real-world results from different speaker positions = exceptionally useful, time saving information. We used this to decide on Denon x3700 7.2.4 set up.
Great job, and thank you!
So happy to hear that! Thank you for your kind words! And congrats on your home theater setup! 😃🤘
I’ve got 4 speakers that I mounted on the ceiling. They’re not as far from each other front to back as I’d like them but it still sounds pretty impressive. Especially when a game is in Atmos.
Moved to a new location so setting up our AV system for the first time in this house. We have a avr-X1800 7.1 Denon AVR. Will be using a Definitive Technology Procinema 6D 5.1 speakers with stands for ear level. I have a couple of extra Procinema 800 satellites which I will try mounting on walls near the ceiling for height which is about the only place I can mount height speakers. The living room is quite small and not easy to set up an AV system. The fireplace in the middle of the long wall complicates the setup. Will post how it sounds.
Thank you! Looking forward to your report! 😁🎉 Congrats on the new house, BTW. 🙌
Another point to bear in mind is that for upfiring speakers, Dolby recommends they should be placed no higher than one half (50%) of the height of the ceiling. Looking at the setup you had here in this video, with those particular large towers, it does appear that those Atmos speakers are higher than that recommendation. To compensate for that the only solution is to then adjust the angle of the Atmos speakers (raising the rear of them up) but this then adds other problems as the increased angle towards the listener will make direct sounds more audible in comparison. But yep, thos Atmos speakers are a bit too close to the ceiling for the given ceiling height it seems.
Finley someone has done a video speaking the truth about Atmos speakers 🔊
Very educational, thank you for this video.
I have to agree with you I hooked atmos speakers on my ceiling last night. They aren't high end or anything they were under £200 (polk) but I was looking for 8 ohm atmos speakers which wasn't easy to find. I would have maybe bought better ones if they were 8 ohm. I had to stick with 8 ohm because of my existing speakers and av receiver. I never even tried the upward firing method. I just don't fancy it and just wanted to put the speakers where they are meant to be. It does sound pretty good to me and got it blending pretty well with my mordaint short mezzo range. This is partially rhe problem for me. I bought these mezzos new with woofer. For me it was a lot to spend and I love those speakers so won't be upgrading all my speakers again for another 8-10 years. But I know the best thing would have been to start from scratch again. I just don't have the kind of money to upgrade everything again so quickly.
Anyway I agree with what you said about bouncing those subtle sounds off the ceiling is never going to work.
Love you're well edited fun yet informative videos.
Thank you very much! :)
watching this Video from Germany and it helped me a lot with my new Atmos Setup, thanks a lot 🙂 didn't found something like this in German...
Danke für die netten Worte! Und ich bin froh, dass ich helfen konnte. 😎
If you buy actual in ceiling speakers and site them as directed 2ft in front of the listener then the sound will be fantastic.
For those who don’t want to cut open the ceiling try building a ceiling box .
I had upward firing built into my speakers, totally disappointed in the results. So I got 4 dali alteco c1 elevation speakers for front/back heights. Wow what a difference, now I can hear atmos affects.
I have the Alteco’s too. They are superb.
I've done a ton of experimenting myself, but I can't do ceiling mounts. I didn't like high wall mount because I got some harsh reflections. All the upward firing speakers I've tried have not been satisfactory. My best results have been regular 2 way bookshelf speakers angled 20 degrees from vertical with the tweeter closer to the listening position and the crossover as high as your receiver allows. It also matters how far away you sit, if the speaker is too far I think the reflection ends up wasted in front of you. My experience is it didn't work well on the sides either wall or reflection mounted as its too left/right localized. Every speaker I've tried that was built to be upward fired either sounds off due to design, or is very inefficient and room correction never handles them right
Wow! Thanks for your incredible insight! Sounds like you’ve done a lot of experimentation! FOR SCIENCE! 🔬🤘
This. Except for a few high-end manufacturers such as SVS, most Atmos speakers are actually really quite inferior to regular bookshelf speakers but cost 2 - 3 times as much. I didn't mention it in my own comment above, but after a year of experimenting with ceiling speakers, upward firing topper speakers and angled-wall mounting speakers, I finally ended up doing exactly what you did, Scott -- Using 2 way bookshelf speakers mounted up high on the left and right side walls and angling them downwards and slightly inwards to the listening position. They work beautifully. If you want to save yourself some money and get superior height sound, do exactly what Scott O has done.
I'm running a 5.2.4 atmos system with a denon avr-x4400h and for Atmos I got a pair of SVS prime elevation for the front as height channels and for the back I placed a pair of ELAC A4 atmos modules right on top of my Paradigm surrounds...I got some atmos demos and I can hear sounds from above....but I wonder if I could use a couple of regular bookshelf speakers and mount them on the back wall (about 2.5 metres behind my couch) and if that would give much better results than what I get with the ELAC? I guess I could experiment and hear if that sounds better...The few atmos demos I listened to sounded great but they are optimized for the effect. Many movies with atmos are just not very impressive (but Blade Runner 2049 is amazing! )...anyway...maybe having the 2 SVS elevation at the front is good enough with the ELAC bouncing at the back..can't do much drilling in my apt! Thanks
I have a very unoptimal home theater setup a 20x15 room set up wide not long. It's also the attic of my house so it has sloped ceilings what I've done is I have two Billy tall Ikea bookshelves on either side of the sitting position with a full size 6-in driver speaker on top pointing at the angled wall but then bounces the sound down to the listener. Playing with the angle that it hits that angled ceiling, and the angle of the speaker made for a very nice effect
Nice experimenting! FOR SCIENCE! 🔬😄
Hi Ealan, after spending 2 hours testing placements for the best atmos effects using my speakers and I finally found the best solution that you may want to try. My ceiling is 8' hight and I have 2 klipsch reference bookshelf speakers being used a atmos speakers sitting on the top of a two 6' tall bookshelves while having the tv in the middle. I have the speakers tilt toward the ceiling instead of facing where I am sitting and they sound amazing. The problem of having on wall speakers facing my sitting position is that I can tell where the sound is coming from l ( from the front pretty much like 2 stereo speakers sitting high up.) On the other hand, When I have the speakers sitting on top of the selves facing the ceiling at a 20-25 degree angle, the sound blow to the ceiling and it spreads across the room and I feel like the sound is coming from above all over the place. I cannot believe how good it sounds!! It is extremely difficult for the sound from upfiring speakers to bounce off the ceiling when placing them on top of a set of tower speakers, but they work 10x better when they are placed closer to the ceiling since that require a lot less power. Since my wife doesn't want me to have in ceiling speakers, so I planned to mount 4 speakers in the corners of the rooms and make it a 5.1.4 setup, but now I am super happy with my 5.1.2 setup. Note that my room is about 10 feet wide and 16 feet long, I probably would need to mount 2 speakers in the back if my room was bigger.
Awesome! Thanks for all your hard work testing out various scenarios. Glad you found the right setup for your room! As Bill Nye says, “Science rules!,” so kudos to your experimentation! 😁🎉
I completely disagree, have the klipsch 8060 front...the effect is dramatic. Tried several atmos demos discs and I can confirm the sound was clearly coming from above. In the dolby helicopter demo, it you cleary move from back to the front and around, all coming from above. The problems is most forget to bump up the volume of the atmos module a few db, +3 to +6 after doing room correction.
There are so many variables like room size, ceiling height reflection points. The ideal would be overhead when applicable and then second choice being elevation type and lastly upfiring.
Mine is an opinion but the reason I say ceiling mount first over elevation type is aesthetics.
But I say if you can do any type of Atmos is a winner winner chicken dinner 😁👍
The biggest problem is the movies lack of sound. I've done the same thing as to disconnect everything but the height channels and most movies don't have anything there.
Also for up-firing you need a good speaker, a one that hides the mid driver inside so you can't hear it directly. Also the floor standing speakers need to be just above your head so that the up-firing are not visible directly.
This is the very first video i caught on this channel and i loved what i heard.
One thing I really like about my Kali Audio Atmos setup is that I have the option to use speaker stands for my height channels with the mounting hardware that was included!! Just something to think about for anyone living at a rental that REALLY wants to commit to an Atmos setup. (Disclaimer, this is a music studio setup, but still a neat idea!!)
Which kali do you use and what stands? I'm renting and this is a good solution.
I agree with your upward firing findings. Especially with only a single pair. I have tried that in my theater room and it was rarely noticeable. I would imaging that having 4 would stand out more because of the panning potential, but I haven’t heard it. I’m starting to feel like you really need to have 4 height channels in any configuration for it to actually be with it. Every 2 height system I’ve tried just seems like a marketing gimmick.
I agree... my brother would make fun of me when I had the 2 atmos speakers (ceiling mounted) saying I had "speaker sickness" lol.. but once I installed the other 2 he immediately said "OK that was pretty awesome.. (I used the intro to kong skull island in both cases)
This is great, Ealan! Thanks for sharing. I plan to setup a 5.1.4 or a 7.1.2 configuration with in ceiling speakers. However, with the renovation i'm planning with my wife to make the living room a little bit cleaner without the ear level standing L-R surround speakers, i need to place my L-R surround speakers using Klipsch CDT-5650-C II on top as well. Not sure if you have tried this but would be great if you could share your insights. Thank you!
How did it turn out? How did you position the speakers?
I'm going to get 1st Height speakers This week been running 5.1 for ages I Brought Theater Solutions TS30B and Put them high on wall above the TV and Angle down
That’s the way to do it, my friend! Congrats! 😁🤘
I agree. My first experience was with up firing Speakers didn’t work for me, so I bought 4 SVS elevation speakers mounted them on the walls recommended by auro, I liked it but wanted more. I redid my room 11 x 13 a small room so mounting them on the ceiling works for both ATMOS/AURO Because the room is so small and I was able to put the ceiling speakers over my floor Speakers and now the configuration works for both.
Hell yeah! Having a hybrid Atmos/Auro setup is what everyone should strive for, IMO :)
To get the correct Atmos effect is the outcome of all the components including the visual effects.
Sound comes from 8 directions arround 1 direction each from above and the below
Below the ear level , at the ear level and above the head all this from the 8 surrounding directions and the above head for the helicopter landing effects
Hi. Interesting comments about up-firing speakers. Wrong lol, but interesting ;)
I get sounds coming from the ceiling all the time. I think using timbre matched Dolby speakers built into my Focal speakers and not external Dolby modules helps. I wouldn't recommend them to everyone because there might be too many variables outside of our control, any one of which might derail the whole experience.But they've always sounded great for me, even when I just had 2 speakers.
Today I tried TechnoDad's specially mixed Atmos demo and it worked brilliantly with all the height effects directed exactly where he placed them. So well in fact, that I realized that I needed movie my surround heights to surround back heights in order to get the full front to back experience.
Im waiting for my str an1000 to arrive and now Im confused where to place the height channels, in the beginning i just thought i would place them right above my head it was so obvious but now i understand it can be a noob mistake, now after watching many videos Im planning to place two satellites on ceiling front shooting directly towards you, like if you had a an on ceiling 4 speaker configuration, where the front ceiling speakers would be placed, so it might can give you that wall of sound effects with height sensation too, please inwant opinion on this 🙌🏼
I do have mine mounted on the wall as the wall of sound as you explained and i do like them in that position.
Fully agree that the up firing speakers are far less effective than ceiling or front high atmos mounting. But why high end speakers has atmos speakers built-in on the top ?
Well, some people just can’t mount speakers in the wall or ceiling, so upward firing is the next best thing (maybe they live in an apartment, etc).
I don't know what upward firing speakers you're using...but mines work just fine...jets, bullets, rain, helicopters, etc...sound like it's flying over, getting fired from the side or coming downvfrom the ceiling...totally enveloped....oh yeah...Denon and Pioneer upward firing speakers....two in the front...and two in the back....
I have two down firing front height speakers but plan on adding in-ceiling speakers very soon.
I just stumbled upon this video while checking on "ideal" placement of Atmos speakers. I got the Klipsch Atmos 41s some time ago, but I just cranked up the gains in my X4400h to correct for the reflecting off the ceiling and I am quite surprised. Just rewatched Independence Day in Atmos and it was very good. I must try Auro 3D since my old Denon supports it...
I never thought upward firing speakers would work as intended. You are better off getting the speakers as high as you can, and angling them down towards you if in ceiling is a no no.
Not only that isn't feasible for everyone, but separate height speakers cost almost as much as a whole set in 5/7.1.4 system
Seems like in wall heights have an extra advantage of wiring convenience. It’s the same wall cavity that is used for the mains
Very true. 👍
Yamaha did this with rx-z11 years ago which I currently have and love.
My speakers are on the front wall and the wires hide behind my projector screen. I love how it sounds! The front sound stage feels huge.
Very Cool Vid, I now have 4 Atmos Channels on my Side Walls because I have a Wooden Ceiling and didnt want to damage it, its cool but there is too much coming from the top.
Im now going to do a Ceiling Sail, where I will put 7 In Ceiling speakers and enough absorption, I hope to get then more directional and clear Sound
Ealan, I'm converting a small bedroom into a dedicated front projection HT room.
It measures 12.5" x 12.5" x 9.
I've heard from some don't do atmos in this room due to how small it is.
Or the separation of the atmos speakers wouldn't be big enough.
I've decided to install 2 atmos speakers and then maybe decide later to add 2 more.
What are your thoughts??
I think Atmos should be fine since you have 9 foot ceilings. But I would invest in a DSP for subwoofer(s) since square rooms can sometimes be a nightmare for bass management. Like those from MiniDSP.
I too have an Onkyo receiver. I feel that after you perform your setup, you can’t adjust the height limits. That should / would help the situation
Great video…. I live in a apartment so I have no Choice to go with upfiring speakers. Maybe you can make a video how to run speaker wires for those that live in a apartment and want to hang speakers in the corner wall/ ceiling.
I've got some klipsch floorstanders with thr atmos built in thr top. Sounds as good as thr ones I have up high. They work really well. That well I've taken down my heights and are just using the klipsch . Sounds excellent.
I have 4 SVS Prime Elevation speakers. 2 on each side wall in line with my main front speakers.
I do have digfferent quite positive experience with Up-firing Atmos spekers . You might try with 4x or 6x up-firing atmos spekers and than reviewe your review and recomendations.
I'd have to agree. I have 5.1.4 and I rent so I have to have up firing Atmos, and in episode 5 of Loki it sounds like thunder is actually coming from the ceiling.
@@technon8 Same here. Just upgraded my AVR to 7.2.6 all 6 Elac Atmos. No need of celing and more convinient to move the furniture around on the go and Atmos that way is still Atmops where it should be. The reviewr here DID NOT MENTION he has ONLY " 2 atmos up-firing speakers of if you see the set up his sofa is againgst the window / wall. In that set up he does not have rear surrounds too. Very bad review. I would not bother to replay if it was not for such and statemnt about something he could not test nor verify.
@@nedywest71 yeah exactly and he was sitting too far away from those two up firing drivers as well. Gotta find that sweet spot where all 4 (or 6 in your case) drivers meet your ears. If your too far forward you'll get only the front Atmos speakers, too far back and only the rears or nothing at all. Gotta sit in the middle.
@@technon8 Position them so that you have an close estimate to yopur sitting posiition of the sound tragetory up and down and Autocalibrate from the AVR. I must say YES if they are too far way than it might not work as supposed to but I am in 5x3meter room with my siiting in the middle . in fronyt is my 65 TV at the back my bed. By the Bed Headrest are my rear suround and pair of Atmos, middle of the bed two surrounds with pair of atmos and in front by the TV on the Floorstanders a pair of atmos. in this set up EVERYTING comes from above :)
@@nedywest71 yeah I have the elevate sound bar and the Vizio OLED TV but it works great for my room. It's about 4 meters by 6 meters. But I will be moving soon so will have to figure it out in my new place.
I recently installed my first front hight speakers, svs prime elevation. Now I am immediately curious about having 4 higt speakers. But I have my back against the wall and I think its called slanted ceilings. The ceiling is about 3.5meters where my hight speakers are placed. The ceiling is about 26*. So witch solution for 4 hights is best? In ceiling is not an option since they wound point away for the listening position. So on ceiling speakers that can be pointed at the listening position or behind the listening position😅💩 I often think about this, and witch kind of speakers I should use.
Yeah, I would still go with on-ceiling pointed at the listening position. Techno Dad did an experiment with 6 heights and came to the conclusion that the middle heights should be as close to straight above you as possible. So the same goes for 4 heights if you’re in a position where you can’t have the rear heights behind your MLP
Hmm, well as right now I only have a soundbar with height effects bouncing off the ceiling, but I will be building out a room in my basement, with in ceiling klipsch speakers, that I think will sound great and add some more dimensionality to my movie watching experience… as opposed to the hit and miss of the bouncing sound off of the ceiling…
And of course, this came out AFTER I bought the R-625fa pair. (This is life though)
Definitely selling them to give more options, as the apt I am moving to has a 2ft higher ceiling. This particular apt will actually allow for mounting of speakers and tv! Thank you a ton for sharing your experiments and results!
I have the 625f and I can hear them perfectly
You are asking the important questions! Will you be having other videos coming out that test speaker placement like this? Also, I didn't know Auro 3D existed. Will you do a video comparing that to Atmos?
It’s in the long list of topics I want to cover! 🤘
Thanks, just got my height speakers and had them placed BEHIND the TV to fire up.... with 9 foot ceiling I am also not sold.... might put these in top corners of room.... fun to experiment. In end the wife will decide what is acceptable speaker visibility ;-)
Heh heh, that’s right! You must pay the wife toll in the end. 😁
I am planning to upgrade from 7.1 to 9.1, but not sure where to place the atmos speakers. Above fr and fl or above surr l and surr r. Also now i may need to think of even upgrading to 5.1.4 with auro 3d because i am in europe and can take advantage of it.
I've personally just begun my journey of home cinema audio upgrades and am now at a 5.1 System. I wanted to eventually add height channels to it (once I figure out how to support it software) and thanks to you I now know that up firing speakers won't cut it.
They do, but it depends on your room and speaker placement. Upward-firing speakers sound more diffuse. If you can't get ceiling speakers but want height channels, going with 4 up-firing speakers is still preferable to basic 5.1.
With the upwards firing did you up the volume/output in the AVR? Most AVR's have very limited output to channels outside of the L/R main channels, and even Center Channel can get the short end sometimes, and the more channels you have the output continues to get more divided. Almost all manufactures claim X Watts per channel, but the reality is that X watts for L&R, Y watts for center, and Z Watts for everything else. I also dont think most top firing channels are designed with efficacy in mind esp since the enclosures for them are so tiny, a bulk of it really high mid-higher frequencies and the woofers will play something... just not a lot, so to compensate you need to add more power to drive them harder to increase output.
Yeah, ideally you’ll want to power your heights with an external amp. But to answer your question, yes - I basically turned up the volume to max on the heights specifically. Still wasn’t impressed. 🤷♂️
What about floor firing? Upward speakers?
Excellent work. I’m looking at using a headphone setup Realiser A16 to be truthful.
Thank you for the video which is informative, but I still don't understand what is better for my setup. Like you said, everyone's setup room size, is different. My room size is 12'9" deep x 10'2" wide (because it is actually 12'9" wide too, however the open closet area is not a concession area with cabinets, popcorn machine, etc. I have an Onkyo TX-SR494 which is a 5.1.2 receiver. I have Warfendale front L/R speakers sitting on the floor with the Warfendale center speaker in the middle of the 86" LG LED TV on a media stand. I am using a Polk Audio Subwoofer PSW108. Waiting on a split subwoofer cable at the moment. I have almost no room for the surround speakers as there is only 2' of space on each side due to having a 2 seat recliner theater chairs with a spacer in the middle of those. The speaker stands are also so low that they are not even able to get up to ear height, so I think they are useless. The surround speakers are Polk Audio model T15's. Due to room space limitations, there is no "Center" position to calibrate the room to, so my thought is that I need to calibrate it to (when I get all the speakers mounted in their right positions) the point in the middle of the chair area by placing the reference mic at the top of the middle seat...., which would not seem to be in the best interest of either seat listener. Am I wrong? Also, what would be my best location for the surrounds and height speakers in this particular scenario? You may need to actually see the space but it is quite simple really.... just small. Because I need a space behind the seating for my computer system (room used to be my office), my seating is placed only4'8" away from front wall. The head position is at 7'0" from the front wall. That seems to be a bit close, but actually isn't too bad. However there is no room on the left side (facing seating from TV) because the concession area is the entire closet area, and on the right side there is only 2' to the wall. Placing side speakers is not an option. So, my question to you about that is "should they be ceiling mounted" and the height speakers be wall mounted to the front wall above the front L/R speakers? Sorry about the short novel, but I don't know how else to explain my serious issue, I am stuck. Please help me the best you can. Thank you in advance.
I know I'm behind the times, but I've been enjoying my 5.1 THX certified Atlantic Technology speakers since I purchased them new since the late 1990'a when AT was all the rage. I'm now looking to buy my fourth AVR to power these speakers, and for fun, I picked up the Klipsch Reference Cinema 5.1.4 package (for $250 I had to play with it) and now I'm looking for a 9 channel receiver :) The addiction never ceases. Long story, but I actually have two sets of my Atlantic Technology speakers, sans subwoofers so I am thinking if I wanted to "upgrade" the Klipsch speakers I could use the extra Atlantic Technology speakers to build out a full 5.1.4 system. The rear Atlantic Technology speakers feature spatially-enhanced di-pole speakers with two 3.5" polypropylenes offset to the sides, with a center 4" polypropylene driver. They're all mid-range drivers in a sealed MDF box with a frequency response of 50Hz - 12.5kHz.
Would these di-pole speakers work as Dolby Atmos (and DTS:X) height speakers?
Wow! Thanks for your home theater history! 🎉
And yeah, I would probably advise NOT to have dipoles as height speakers, just because they’re meant to create a cube of sound. So having dipole speakers would probably throw off the precise placement of audio objects within 3D space. You can get away with dipoles either as surrounds or surround backs, but heights are a different story. 😁🙌
@@ealanosborne Thanks, that makes sense. I may end up using a second pair of the Atlantic Tech front speakers for the front height effect speakers, and mount them horizontally like a center channel (easier/safer to mount) and it would spread out the sound-field. They have two 4" midrange drivers and a dome tweeter, rated at 10-150W, with a frequency response of 50Hz-20kHz. The rear of my room is [unfortunately] relegated to speaker stands only positioned behind the listening area. Fine for a 5.1 system, but limits height effect options, so I may end up using a pair of the Klipsch Reference Cinema Atmos speakers with their upward firing components for the rears surround and height effects and keep the ATs everywhere else. Not ideal, and I realize you're not a big fan of the upward firing Atmos speakers, but it's better than nothing(?), and if the fronts are mounted on the ceiling, I think it would work, even if not representing a level height effects playing field.
BTW my first HT setup was a Pioneer Dolby Pro Logic Surround AVR with a Pioneer Laser Disc, it was the bomb back in the 80's! Star Wars (any of the original trio) were great on Laser Disc, actually I should say laser discs, as it took several double sided discs per movie. Blade Runner was great on laser disc, and there were several directors cut or laser disc only special edition/content discs. Now we collect 4K BluRay or just download/stream it :) Thanks again, I've been really enjoying your channel!!
@@CalCobra I wish I could’ve experienced your setup in the 80’s! I would’ve been in A/V heaven! 😄
In your vids you mention that upward firing drivers are mostly ineffective with ceilings higher than 8 feet. Can you compensate for taller ceilings by increasing the volume level of those drivers?
To some degree, you can, but it’s still not ideal. Although I understand there are a lot of people out there who can’t mount or install speakers up high for various reasons. Do the best with your circumstances, really. 👍
Hey Osborne. You previously help me set up my entire home theater thus far. Denon AVR 6700, Costco Klipsche reference surround sound speakers, and of course your awesomeness recommendation of two SVS pro 1000 subs. Now it’s time to move on to in ceiling speakers and I’m looking at the Klipsch PRO-18RC Professional Series In-Ceiling Speakers, on sale right now from $499 each to now $271.85. I know you’re super busy but would you please tell me your thoughts on this speaker? Or what speakers you recommend? Thanks for your time brother and keep up the great videos
Whoa! No, man, that’s a really good deal on some solid in-ceiling speakers! Specs look good, sensitivity is off-the-charts @ 95dB. 🤘 I’d get them!
I really enjoyed your video! Atmos is such a quirky experience. This is coming from an old guy that bought one of the first dolby pro logic amps back in the early 90's. I think it was 1994, yamaha pro logic. fitted to a 21 inch TV, lol. Suffice it to say that i have moved through the technology as it has happened and can honestly say Atmos is my favorite upgrade so far (but not always). Ghost inthe Shell is one of my favorite Atmos soundtracks. I have forward firirng atmos speakers and find those to do an excellent job. I have no other frame of reference (other than a proper cinema) but for c onvenienc e etc, that fornt firing do a great job. Thanks for the video and continued success for your channnel.
Thank you so much for your kind words! 🙌