Generally, the finer the gradations, the more accurate the measurement......i.e. would you prefer to use a ruler graduated in inches or in 3.6 inch increments? Since almost all Americans have an accurate mental picture of 1/4", rather than 1/10 of 3.6", it would seem that the MOA reticle would be preferable. Example: You are shooting 1/2" below your target at 100 yards. Would you rather adjust up two MOA and be on dead center, or up either 1 or 2 MIL and be either below or above dead center?
Great video. It indeed is pretty easy; yet some commenting here seem to be very confused about it all. That's to say, they don't know that they don't know. Here's the whole shootin" match (mil and MOA formulas) for sight adjustment, range estimation, and wind counters: MOA (minute of angle) and mil (mil-radian) are angular units of measurement. A MOA equals 1.047 inches per 100 yards, while a mil equals 3.6 inches per 100 yards. Sights and scopes move in MOA or mils and scopes may have a reticle scaled in mils or MOA, which is a means to estimate distance to target and use the reticle for a bullet drop compensation function. Common to all functions, the amount of sight movement in mils or MOA describes the distance in inches the sight adjustment will make at target distance. For example, a 1 MOA sight adjustment would move bullet impact approximately 1 inch at one hundred yards, 2 inches at two hundred yards, 3 inches at three hundred yards, and 10 inches all the way out to one thousand yards. Mathematical formulas must be processed to find the amount of MOA or mil sight movement needed for line of sight and bullet path to intersect at target distance. Here’s the simple in-head MOA formula to determine up/down sight adjustment needed; and, doing the math again, determine left/right sight adjustment needed. 1. First, think what the value of 1 MOA is at target distance: Distance to Target in Meters / 100 = Value of 1 MOA in Inches at Target Distance 2. Next, think how many of those MOAS will fit into inches of needed movement: Inches of Movement Needed / Value of 1 MOA in Inches at Target Distance = MOA Adjustment 3. Finally, figure out how many clicks to sight for needed movement: MOA Adjustment / Sight MOA Click Value = Clicks to Sight for Needed Movement So, let’s say you have set your target out to 100 yards, and you have produced a group which is 2 inches low and 3 inches right of the target’s center. In this scenario your scope’s windage and elevation adjustment controls have a .25 MOA value per click. First, figure out adjustment needed to sight control up/down movement: 1. 100 yards / 100 = 1 Inch 2. 2 Inches / 1 = 2 MOA 3. 2 MOA / .25 = 8 click turn of elevation control in up direction for needed vertical movement of grouping on target Now, repeat steps to figure out adjustment needed to rear sight drum controlling left/right movement: 1. 100 yards / 100 = 1 Inch 2. 3 Inches / 1 = 3 MOA 3. 3 MOA / .25 = 12 click turn of windage control in direction to move group left for needed horizontal movement of grouping on target Now, when Mils and MOA are scaled to a scope’s reticle, the reticle will have a bullet drop compensation function and can be used to discern target distance through range estimation formula. Here’s the MOA range estimation formula. Target Height in Inches X 95.5 / Target Height in MOA = Yards to Target Shooting at a target 44 inches in height appearing to be about 4.2 MOA the equation would look like this: 44 X 95.5 / 4.2 = 1000 Yards
Now, here are the mil formulas: Target Height in Inches X 27.78 / Target Height in Mils = Yards to Target, or Target Height in Yards X 1000 / Target Height in Mils = Yards to Target Shooting at a target 36 inches in height appearing to be about 1 Mil the equation would look like this: 1 X 1000 / 1 = 1000 Yards Finally, the MOA Wind Constant formula is a means to understand sight adjustment or hold needed to counter wind. After the shooter has appraised wind value, for example, a 10-mph wind from a quartering direction would be said to have a 5-mph value, a simple formula will allow the shooter to adjust for the distance that the wind displaces the bullet, when the MOA constant for the cartridge/distance has been gleaned from a ballistics calculation. Distance to Target in Yards / 100 X Wind Value in MPH / Constant = Bullet Drift in MOA For Example, here’s the formula using the constant of 7 which is correct when shooting 5.56 M855 ammunition from an M16-A4 at 600 yards: 600 Yards / 100 X 5 MPH / 7 = 4 MOA Bullet Drift To get the drift in inches the shooter will take the distance to target in yards / 100 X Bullet Drift in MOA. Shooting at 600 yards, with wind appraised as having a 5-mph value, the formula would look like this: 600 Yards / 100 X 4 MOA = 24 Inches of Drift
Most long range rifle optics are either .25 MOA/click or .1MRAD/click. AKA .25in or .36in at 100 yards and it expands from there. If you're making shots at 1000yds do you want to make adjustments at that distance 2.5 or 3.6 inches at a time?
First, mil and MOA are neither imperial or metric units of measurement. They’re both angular units of measurement and both relate to sight adjustment need in inches at target distance. MOA is about 1 inch per hundred yards and 1 mil is 3.6 inches per hundred yards. Now, if you describe objects in imperial terms there’s no doubt sight movement in MOA is easier math for wind counter, and bullet drop compensation. Only in ranging distance to target might mil reticle deliver faster results that an MOA scaled reticle but with less precision. And thus the rub with mils for ranging since as distance to target increases so does the need for precise data in addition to great marksmanship skill.
You would zero a Mil reticle at whatever distance you normally zero your scope at. The only difference between MOA and MRAD is the value of each click. This does not change the distance you choose to zero the scope. You do not have to set your target up in Mils, but it is easier to match the value on the target with the value of the click. MOA is approximately .25 inches per click at 100 yards, Mils are approximately .36 inches at 100 yards
@@legallimitoutdoors9917 Yes, you can zero at 100 yards (or whatever distance you prefer) Then dial your elevation turret to compensate for bullet drop at longer ranges
Zero the MOA or mil dials to any distance because the initial zero is just a placeholder. 100 yards is good because any target requiring a sight adjustment will always require an upward adjustment, which associates better with a ballistics table.
Here is a link that covers ranging with MOA and MRAD reticles www.marksmanshiptrainingcenter.com/uploads/3/4/9/7/34971413/bc_article_-_range_estimation.pdf
The formula is: Size of target in yards times 1000 divided by target size in mils equals distance to target in yards. Example, a 36 inch high target seen as 1 mil the formula is 1 times 1000 divided by 1 equals 1000 yards.
I mostly use MOA. It makes field expedient math easier FOR ME. But, I've used MIL based scopes on other guy's rifles to, in most cases, out shoot them at range. To convert MIL to MOA simply divide by 3. So, a 2.1 MIL reading divided by 3 = 7 MOA (not exact but very close. Tighter tolerance than most can hold steady or guess wind!).
Thanks for the comment. We continue to use both for the reasons mentioned in the video. Folks just need to decide for themselves which is better for their application
You can go from mil adjustments to moa by multiplying by 3.6 or from moa to mil by dividing Let’s say that your friend shoots a mil scope and you shoot with an moa scope. Y’all both shoot 6.5 creedmoor rifles using a similar or the same ammo. he hit the 400 yard target with the solution of 1.7 mils. Take 1.7 x 3.6 = 6.12 Because most MOA scopes offer 1/4 moa adjustments and because .12 is closer to .00 than .25 you can ignore the .12 and dial 6 moa. Obviously there are many factors in doing this that will affect accuracy the further out you go but it will get you close.
While MOA is imperial, not metric, measurement, the shooter gets a bit more precision from a scope set up in MOA when the turrets are usually 1/4 MOA per click (0.25") versus MRAD that is designated at 1/10 MIL per click (0.36"). If used for ranging purposes, It is important to note that one MOA is actually 1.047" at 100 yards, not 1.000" as Mr. Raimo illustrates. But he is generalizing to explain the concept. It's easier to use 1" versus 1.047".
Keep in mind that the difference in granularity isn’t as simple as (.36” minus .26” = .1” @ 100 yards). It is actually half of the difference. The easiest way to explain the reason is that while 1/4” MOA is more granular than .1 mils, there will be cases where .1 mils gets you closer to the point of aim. Example, your point of impact is .36” left at 100 yards, one click on the mil scope will get you centered up perfectly whereas with 1/4 moa, you can only get as close as .1”. But on average 1/4 moa will get you closer to point of aim compared to .1 mil, so it is more granular but again it is the difference / 2. Which is a whole half an inch at 1000 yards, and considering 1 mph of wind causes a shift of approximately .7 moa for the specific environmentals/mv/bc that I have in my Ballistic calc for 6.5 creedmoor at 1000 yards… we can say the granularity difference is negligible. Maybe top bench rest competitors could shoot the difference but those guys use 1/8 moa sfp scopes anyway so again, granularity should be treated as a non factor when choosing a 1/4 moa vs .1 mil scope.
@@raining1975 I shoot every hundred yards out to 1000 amd from my zero I make my dope chart as to how many clicks from zero to each distance once I have that I know I don’t worry about mils or clicks it’s to complicated for me so I do what works for me
@@jasonnester9514 , you should try to get away from using clicks. The ballistic calculator will give you the elevation in whatever unit your scope is in. If it says 9.7 MILs for 1000 yards then you just dial to 9.7 on the scope. Or if it says 32.5 MOA for 1400 yards then you just dial the scope to 32.5 MOA. If there are 25 MOA per revolution then you dial to 25 and then dial past to 7.5 MOA. Some scopes show the second revolution numbers above the first revolution number so there would be a 32 above the 7, 26 above the 1, 27 above the 2, etc. You would time out on a PRS stage if you tried counting your clicks for each distance. The biggest problem I see with a lot of these videos on MOA vs MIL is they over complicate things with information that you don't need to know. You don't need to know about circles and degrees or radians to use a scope properly. Let us say I invented a new unit of angular measurement called pikachu's. I give you a ballistic calculator that will output your elevation in pikachu's and I give you a scope whos reticle and turrets are in pikachu's. You input the distance to the target into the ballistic calculator, yards or meters it doesn't matter, the ballistic calculator will handle either, and it will tell you your elevation in pikachu's. Then you dial the scope to that pikachu value. And that is it. If you miss left and use the reticle to measure your miss was 2.5 pikachu's left, then you hold 2.5 pikachu's right or if you want you can dial 2.5 pikachu's right on the turret. Replace pikachu with MOA or MIL and it is all the same. The differences between MOA and MIL are the following: The ranging formulas might be easier for one or the other to do in your head based on if you know the targets size in inches vs meters or yards etc. Keep in mind there is a lot that can go wrong with ranging with the reticle. You can incorrectly judge the angular size of the target in the reticle (you measure 2.6 pikachu's but in reality it was 2.75 pikachu's) or you incorrectly judge the linear size of the target (you think the coyote is 25" foot to shoulder but it is actually a runt female that is 19"). Now all of a sudden you wounded an animal instead of killing it and you feel like an asshole. All of that can be avoided if you just use a laser range finder. Simple adjustments might be easier with MIL and with MOA. Example for MOA. You hold 2.25 MOA right for wind and you miss right .5 MOA. You held too much, so you subtract .5 from 2.25 which is 1.75 MOA, your new hold. Example for MIL. You hold 1.2 MILs right for wind, and you miss right .3 MILs. You held too much, so you subtract .3 from 1.2 which is .9 MILs, your new hold. People tend to find it easier to add and subtract tenths vs quarters. There is a quick wind formula that is similar to the above case, simply tenths are a bit easier to work with than quarters. Also, more PRS competitors use MIL than MOA, so it is easier to talk to each other about their wind holds etc. If you had an MOA scope and went to a PRS competition, you would simply need to convert their wind holds from MIL to MOA if you wanted to piggy back off their adjustment. The last difference that doesn't apply to most people: The best scopes only have MIL reticles in the Christmas tree style. Tangent Theta, ZCO, Nightforce, Minox, S&B, Kahles, etc. Vortex Razor is about as good as it gets for MOA Christmas tree reticle. Maybe Leupold might have one but Leupold has fallen out of favor of PRS competition shooters.
I dont get the need or use for mil. Its so sloppy and more complicated. Working with 3.6 at a time can be doable if your shooting at 100, 200, 300 or so on yards but if your shooting at 50, 75, 125 or so on yards math can get way more complicated than with moa. With moa 50 yards is .5 moa, 75 is .75 moa and 125 is 1.25 moa. Its just a matter of moving the decimal with moa where you need to do math woth mil
Tract provides a really good ballistics calculator. Select your scope (MOA or MRAD), then select your caliber and choose from many different cartridges, bullet size, barrel twist, environmental data. Then go to the dope chart that it produces. It will give you the drop (elevation) for each yardage selected. Lots of good tutorials on YT also. One MOA is 1.047" so if you want to shoot 2" high, multiply 2 * 0.955 (1/1.047) to get 1.91 MOA. Since the scope is calibrated to .25 MOA per click, you would click 7 or 8 clicks. But this assumes no zero at 100 yards. It's not complicated, and let the rifle/bullet do the work for you. Also, search for max point blank range (MPBR). A 2" target gives you a far zero at about 180 yards and MPBR of 210 yards with a scope elevation of about 0.9". This means put the cross hairs on the target at 200 yards and the bullet will hit within a 2" zone. I am using a 180gr Berger in a 300 win mag as the example here. Your MPBR will differ depending on the caliber, etc.
@@jasonnester9514 Take one thing at a time. Go to the Tract Optics website. Click on Impact Ballistics. Enter info on scope, ammo/bullet, environment. Then select Dope Card. It does the math for us. It will tell you how many clicks at given yardage. Most shooters/hunters print out a Dope chart and tape it to their rifle since it's too much calculation to do when you're trying to shoot game. Once you get this, then you can learn about holdovers instead of dialing the turrets LOL.
@@jasonnester9514 Sure thing. You can create and print out a DOPE card for every rifle and each different load. No matter which scope you select, zero your rifle for a known distance (100 yards is common). After you print a DOPE card, then please respond here with the answer to your question - "how many clicks to shoot 2" high at 200 yards." Also, I repeat that you should read about "maximum point blank range", or MPBR. Chris Kyle (famous sniper) once said he could set his scope turret [using MPBR] so that he knew he would hit his target (30" torso) at any distance from 100 - 700 yards. In other words for practical (hunting) purposes your rifle system (rifle, cartridge, scope) gives you a lot of latitude where to put the crosshairs given a known size target. Have fun with this.
completely missed the point that a MIL is constant at all distances... eg: simply use your reticle and measure your point of impact is low by 0.5MIL you just dial up 0.5MIL no need to covert inches to MOA for a given distance
how about start with 1MOA is 1/60th of a degree...then explain what that means at 100 yards How about explain that a mil is actually a milli radian another terrible video that doesn't actually start with an explanation of what MOA or mrad is
Holy shit, this is by far the simplest method of explaining it!!! Thank you Sir!!
Generally, the finer the gradations, the more accurate the measurement......i.e. would you prefer to use a ruler graduated in inches or in 3.6 inch increments? Since almost all Americans have an accurate mental picture of 1/4", rather than 1/10 of 3.6", it would seem that the MOA reticle would be preferable. Example: You are shooting 1/2" below your target at 100 yards. Would you rather adjust up two MOA and be on dead center, or up either 1 or 2 MIL and be either below or above dead center?
Great video. It indeed is pretty easy; yet some commenting here seem to be very confused about it all. That's to say, they don't know that they don't know. Here's the whole shootin" match (mil and MOA formulas) for sight adjustment, range estimation, and wind counters:
MOA (minute of angle) and mil (mil-radian) are angular units of measurement. A MOA equals 1.047 inches per 100 yards, while a mil equals 3.6 inches per 100 yards. Sights and scopes move in MOA or mils and scopes may have a reticle scaled in mils or MOA, which is a means to estimate distance to target and use the reticle for a bullet drop compensation function. Common to all functions, the amount of sight movement in mils or MOA describes the distance in inches the sight adjustment will make at target distance. For example, a 1 MOA sight adjustment would move bullet impact approximately 1 inch at one hundred yards, 2 inches at two hundred yards, 3 inches at three hundred yards, and 10 inches all the way out to one thousand yards.
Mathematical formulas must be processed to find the amount of MOA or mil sight movement needed for line of sight and bullet path to intersect at target distance. Here’s the simple in-head MOA formula to determine up/down sight adjustment needed; and, doing the math again, determine left/right sight adjustment needed.
1. First, think what the value of 1 MOA is at target distance:
Distance to Target in Meters / 100 = Value of 1 MOA in Inches at Target Distance
2. Next, think how many of those MOAS will fit into inches of needed movement: Inches of Movement Needed / Value of 1 MOA in Inches at Target Distance = MOA Adjustment
3. Finally, figure out how many clicks to sight for needed movement: MOA Adjustment / Sight MOA Click Value = Clicks to Sight for Needed Movement
So, let’s say you have set your target out to 100 yards, and you have produced a group which is 2 inches low and 3 inches right of the target’s center. In this scenario your scope’s windage and elevation adjustment controls have a .25 MOA value per click.
First, figure out adjustment needed to sight control up/down movement:
1. 100 yards / 100 = 1 Inch
2. 2 Inches / 1 = 2 MOA
3. 2 MOA / .25 = 8 click turn of elevation control in up direction for needed vertical movement of grouping on target
Now, repeat steps to figure out adjustment needed to rear sight drum controlling left/right movement:
1. 100 yards / 100 = 1 Inch
2. 3 Inches / 1 = 3 MOA
3. 3 MOA / .25 = 12 click turn of windage control in direction to move group left for needed horizontal movement of grouping on target
Now, when Mils and MOA are scaled to a scope’s reticle, the reticle will have a bullet drop compensation function and can be used to discern target distance through range estimation formula.
Here’s the MOA range estimation formula.
Target Height in Inches X 95.5 / Target Height in MOA = Yards to Target
Shooting at a target 44 inches in height appearing to be about 4.2 MOA the equation would look like this:
44 X 95.5 / 4.2 = 1000 Yards
Now, here are the mil formulas:
Target Height in Inches X 27.78 / Target Height in Mils = Yards to Target, or Target Height in Yards X 1000 / Target Height in Mils = Yards to Target
Shooting at a target 36 inches in height appearing to be about 1 Mil the equation would look like this:
1 X 1000 / 1 = 1000 Yards
Finally, the MOA Wind Constant formula is a means to understand sight adjustment or hold needed to counter wind. After the shooter has appraised wind value, for example, a 10-mph wind from a quartering direction would be said to have a 5-mph value, a simple formula will allow the shooter to adjust for the distance that the wind displaces the bullet, when the MOA constant for the cartridge/distance has been gleaned from a ballistics calculation.
Distance to Target in Yards / 100 X Wind Value in MPH / Constant = Bullet Drift in MOA
For Example, here’s the formula using the constant of 7 which is correct when shooting 5.56 M855 ammunition from an M16-A4 at 600 yards:
600 Yards / 100 X 5 MPH / 7 = 4 MOA Bullet Drift
To get the drift in inches the shooter will take the distance to target in yards / 100 X Bullet Drift in MOA. Shooting at 600 yards, with wind appraised as having a 5-mph value, the formula would look like this:
600 Yards / 100 X 4 MOA = 24 Inches of Drift
Most long range rifle optics are either .25 MOA/click or .1MRAD/click. AKA .25in or .36in at 100 yards and it expands from there.
If you're making shots at 1000yds do you want to make adjustments at that distance 2.5 or 3.6 inches at a time?
GOD BLESS YOU FOR MAKING THIS VIDEO. THIS SHOULD BE PLAYED AT EVERY PHONY PRECISION SCHOOL LOL
People will remain confused so long as you convert metric to imperial. Treat them as 2 systems of measurements and don't cross them over.
100mm@100m
Yup
First, mil and MOA are neither imperial or metric units of measurement. They’re both angular units of measurement and both relate to sight adjustment need in inches at target distance. MOA is about 1 inch per hundred yards and 1 mil is 3.6 inches per hundred yards. Now, if you describe objects in imperial terms there’s no doubt sight movement in MOA is easier math for wind counter, and bullet drop compensation. Only in ranging distance to target might mil reticle deliver faster results that an MOA scaled reticle but with less precision. And thus the rub with mils for ranging since as distance to target increases so does the need for precise data in addition to great marksmanship skill.
@@charlesludwig9173 Hmmm...yup!
So what does a person zero a
Milrad radical at. And do I have to set my target up in Mills.
You would zero a Mil reticle at whatever distance you normally zero your scope at. The only difference between MOA and MRAD is the value of each click. This does not change the distance you choose to zero the scope. You do not have to set your target up in Mils, but it is easier to match the value on the target with the value of the click. MOA is approximately .25 inches per click at 100 yards, Mils are approximately .36 inches at 100 yards
@@tractoptics1120 so I can still
Set up @ 100yrd zero. Then use 1 click for the MRAD later right?
@@tractoptics1120 or a zero @ 36yrd
@@legallimitoutdoors9917 Yes, you can zero at 100 yards (or whatever distance you prefer) Then dial your elevation turret to compensate for bullet drop at longer ranges
Zero the MOA or mil dials to any distance because the initial zero is just a placeholder. 100 yards is good because any target requiring a sight adjustment will always require an upward adjustment, which associates better with a ballistics table.
now how do you range with them??
Here is a link that covers ranging with MOA and MRAD reticles www.marksmanshiptrainingcenter.com/uploads/3/4/9/7/34971413/bc_article_-_range_estimation.pdf
The formula is: Size of target in yards times 1000 divided by target size in mils equals distance to target in yards. Example, a 36 inch high target seen as 1 mil the formula is 1 times 1000 divided by 1 equals 1000 yards.
I mostly use MOA. It makes field expedient math easier FOR ME. But, I've used MIL based scopes on other guy's rifles to, in most cases, out shoot them at range. To convert MIL to MOA simply divide by 3. So, a 2.1 MIL reading divided by 3 = 7 MOA (not exact but very close. Tighter tolerance than most can hold steady or guess wind!).
Thanks for the comment. We continue to use both for the reasons mentioned in the video. Folks just need to decide for themselves which is better for their application
Thank u so much I really appreciate all your help thanks for the great show and the help. It help me out tremendously. 🇺🇸 2A 🇺🇸
You can go from mil adjustments to moa by multiplying by 3.6 or from moa to mil by dividing
Let’s say that your friend shoots a mil scope and you shoot with an moa scope. Y’all both shoot 6.5 creedmoor rifles using a similar or the same ammo. he hit the 400 yard target with the solution of 1.7 mils.
Take 1.7 x 3.6 = 6.12
Because most MOA scopes offer 1/4 moa adjustments and because .12 is closer to .00 than .25 you can ignore the .12 and dial 6 moa.
Obviously there are many factors in doing this that will affect accuracy the further out you go but it will get you close.
I get both but still think MOA is much easier. I know MIL is more popular but I just cant figure out why. 100 yrd = 1", what could be easier?
There are pros and cons to each....just depends on what you prefer
What about metric? We also buy your scopes
We offer MRAD scopes in the 30mm and 34mm products
simple explanation. Moa 4 clicks gives you 1" of adjustment at 100 yrds while Mil 3 clicks gives you 1.08" of adjustment at 100 yrds.
While MOA is imperial, not metric, measurement, the shooter gets a bit more precision from a scope set up in MOA when the turrets are usually 1/4 MOA per click (0.25") versus MRAD that is designated at 1/10 MIL per click (0.36"). If used for ranging purposes, It is important to note that one MOA is actually 1.047" at 100 yards, not 1.000" as Mr. Raimo illustrates. But he is generalizing to explain the concept. It's easier to use 1" versus 1.047".
Thanks for the feedback.
All of this is so confusing I’m completely lost
Keep in mind that the difference in granularity isn’t as simple as (.36” minus .26” = .1” @ 100 yards). It is actually half of the difference. The easiest way to explain the reason is that while 1/4” MOA is more granular than .1 mils, there will be cases where .1 mils gets you closer to the point of aim. Example, your point of impact is .36” left at 100 yards, one click on the mil scope will get you centered up perfectly whereas with 1/4 moa, you can only get as close as .1”. But on average 1/4 moa will get you closer to point of aim compared to .1 mil, so it is more granular but again it is the difference / 2. Which is a whole half an inch at 1000 yards, and considering 1 mph of wind causes a shift of approximately .7 moa for the specific environmentals/mv/bc that I have in my Ballistic calc for 6.5 creedmoor at 1000 yards… we can say the granularity difference is negligible. Maybe top bench rest competitors could shoot the difference but those guys use 1/8 moa sfp scopes anyway so again, granularity should be treated as a non factor when choosing a 1/4 moa vs .1 mil scope.
@@raining1975 I shoot every hundred yards out to 1000 amd from my zero I make my dope chart as to how many clicks from zero to each distance once I have that I know I don’t worry about mils or clicks it’s to complicated for me so I do what works for me
@@jasonnester9514 , you should try to get away from using clicks. The ballistic calculator will give you the elevation in whatever unit your scope is in. If it says 9.7 MILs for 1000 yards then you just dial to 9.7 on the scope. Or if it says 32.5 MOA for 1400 yards then you just dial the scope to 32.5 MOA. If there are 25 MOA per revolution then you dial to 25 and then dial past to 7.5 MOA. Some scopes show the second revolution numbers above the first revolution number so there would be a 32 above the 7, 26 above the 1, 27 above the 2, etc. You would time out on a PRS stage if you tried counting your clicks for each distance.
The biggest problem I see with a lot of these videos on MOA vs MIL is they over complicate things with information that you don't need to know. You don't need to know about circles and degrees or radians to use a scope properly. Let us say I invented a new unit of angular measurement called pikachu's. I give you a ballistic calculator that will output your elevation in pikachu's and I give you a scope whos reticle and turrets are in pikachu's. You input the distance to the target into the ballistic calculator, yards or meters it doesn't matter, the ballistic calculator will handle either, and it will tell you your elevation in pikachu's. Then you dial the scope to that pikachu value. And that is it. If you miss left and use the reticle to measure your miss was 2.5 pikachu's left, then you hold 2.5 pikachu's right or if you want you can dial 2.5 pikachu's right on the turret. Replace pikachu with MOA or MIL and it is all the same.
The differences between MOA and MIL are the following:
The ranging formulas might be easier for one or the other to do in your head based on if you know the targets size in inches vs meters or yards etc. Keep in mind there is a lot that can go wrong with ranging with the reticle. You can incorrectly judge the angular size of the target in the reticle (you measure 2.6 pikachu's but in reality it was 2.75 pikachu's) or you incorrectly judge the linear size of the target (you think the coyote is 25" foot to shoulder but it is actually a runt female that is 19"). Now all of a sudden you wounded an animal instead of killing it and you feel like an asshole. All of that can be avoided if you just use a laser range finder.
Simple adjustments might be easier with MIL and with MOA. Example for MOA. You hold 2.25 MOA right for wind and you miss right .5 MOA. You held too much, so you subtract .5 from 2.25 which is 1.75 MOA, your new hold. Example for MIL. You hold 1.2 MILs right for wind, and you miss right .3 MILs. You held too much, so you subtract .3 from 1.2 which is .9 MILs, your new hold. People tend to find it easier to add and subtract tenths vs quarters.
There is a quick wind formula that is similar to the above case, simply tenths are a bit easier to work with than quarters.
Also, more PRS competitors use MIL than MOA, so it is easier to talk to each other about their wind holds etc. If you had an MOA scope and went to a PRS competition, you would simply need to convert their wind holds from MIL to MOA if you wanted to piggy back off their adjustment.
The last difference that doesn't apply to most people: The best scopes only have MIL reticles in the Christmas tree style. Tangent Theta, ZCO, Nightforce, Minox, S&B, Kahles, etc. Vortex Razor is about as good as it gets for MOA Christmas tree reticle. Maybe Leupold might have one but Leupold has fallen out of favor of PRS competition shooters.
Best understanding video
I dont get the need or use for mil. Its so sloppy and more complicated. Working with 3.6 at a time can be doable if your shooting at 100, 200, 300 or so on yards but if your shooting at 50, 75, 125 or so on yards math can get way more complicated than with moa. With moa 50 yards is .5 moa, 75 is .75 moa and 125 is 1.25 moa. Its just a matter of moving the decimal with moa where you need to do math woth mil
We agree that for shorter ranges MOA is our preference
you dont need to do any math with MIL... you measure the MIL with the reticle and dial it and its consistent at all distances
So if I wanna shoot 2” high at 200 yds I gotta turn my moa click 2x this shot makes no sense
Tract provides a really good ballistics calculator. Select your scope (MOA or MRAD), then select your caliber and choose from many different cartridges, bullet size, barrel twist, environmental data. Then go to the dope chart that it produces. It will give you the drop (elevation) for each yardage selected. Lots of good tutorials on YT also. One MOA is 1.047" so if you want to shoot 2" high, multiply 2 * 0.955 (1/1.047) to get 1.91 MOA. Since the scope is calibrated to .25 MOA per click, you would click 7 or 8 clicks. But this assumes no zero at 100 yards. It's not complicated, and let the rifle/bullet do the work for you. Also, search for max point blank range (MPBR). A 2" target gives you a far zero at about 180 yards and MPBR of 210 yards with a scope elevation of about 0.9". This means put the cross hairs on the target at 200 yards and the bullet will hit within a 2" zone. I am using a 180gr Berger in a 300 win mag as the example here. Your MPBR will differ depending on the caliber, etc.
@@cacinaz8802 dude u lost me lolol
@@jasonnester9514 Take one thing at a time. Go to the Tract Optics website. Click on Impact Ballistics. Enter info on scope, ammo/bullet, environment. Then select Dope Card. It does the math for us. It will tell you how many clicks at given yardage. Most shooters/hunters print out a Dope chart and tape it to their rifle since it's too much calculation to do when you're trying to shoot game. Once you get this, then you can learn about holdovers instead of dialing the turrets LOL.
@@cacinaz8802 thank you
@@jasonnester9514 Sure thing. You can create and print out a DOPE card for every rifle and each different load. No matter which scope you select, zero your rifle for a known distance (100 yards is common). After you print a DOPE card, then please respond here with the answer to your question - "how many clicks to shoot 2" high at 200 yards." Also, I repeat that you should read about "maximum point blank range", or MPBR. Chris Kyle (famous sniper) once said he could set his scope turret [using MPBR] so that he knew he would hit his target (30" torso) at any distance from 100 - 700 yards. In other words for practical (hunting) purposes your rifle system (rifle, cartridge, scope) gives you a lot of latitude where to put the crosshairs given a known size target. Have fun with this.
completely missed the point that a MIL is constant at all distances... eg: simply use your reticle and measure your point of impact is low by 0.5MIL you just dial up 0.5MIL no need to covert inches to MOA for a given distance
how about start with 1MOA is 1/60th of a degree...then explain what that means at 100 yards
How about explain that a mil is actually a milli radian
another terrible video that doesn't actually start with an explanation of what MOA or mrad is
I thought it was 1MIL = .36” at 100 yards? And 3.6” at 1,000 yards?
Never mind, my turrets are .1 MIL clicks, so .1 MIL = .36” at 100 yards etc etc
1 mil is 3.6" at 100 yards and 36 inches at 1,000 yards. A Mil based scope is .36" per click at 100 yards
@@tractoptics1120 Thank you! I’m deep into studying about my new scope and how it works.
Couldn't watch for entirety due to irritating and distracting moaning "music". But I did read the transcript, so thank you for your part Mr. Raimo.
Gotta be smart to use scopes
Hey Jason, Feel free to call me at 516-885-5621. Speaking over the phone might be easier then email.
Jon LaCorte
Co-Founder
TRACT Optics